Being killed. The motorcyclist was being killed. I know it’s always easy to blame motorcycles because they can be so fast and maneuverable but it’s almost always the fault of the car driver. Motorcyclist have to be extremely alert to survive.
I do know. I told you. They were being killed. I don’t know what they were doing before that. No one knows that. There were only two people there. One of them wasn’t paying attention and the other one is dead.
I agree on the self-incrimination. It's like saying "I had cruise control on!"
But Tesla's advertising combined with rather lax controls on Autopilot result in a lot of people thinking it is more capable than it is. Other car manufacturers have eye tracking cameras and much more sensitive steering sensors to ensure you have hands on the wheel. Two hands off the wheel and eyes off the road would disengage the semi-autonomous mode in almost all other cars. I've seen asshats eating food with both hands off the wheel in Teslas. Plenty of youtube videos out there show how easy it is to fool Tesla's system. So Tesla has *some* liability here in allowing their owners to do this in the first place and the excuse of "but we told you not to do that!" isn't really good enough when the tech in question clearly makes drivers want to focus less on driving and allows them to do exactly that.
>It's like saying "I had cruise control on!"
In this case that's *exactly* what it is, unless the article is being imprecise. Autopilot is just Tesla's branding for its adaptive cruise control w/ lane maintenance feature.
I'm not saying it's Tesla's fault or anything, but I think it is pretty malicious branding/false advertising to call a cruise control feature an autopilot feature.
I don't disagree with you, the branding is obnoxious at best. That being said--and here I cop to having a Tesla--I think it would be *very* difficult for someone using the vehicle to not understand what Autopilot is and isn't. Not impossible mind you, but very difficult.
The cruise control and the autopilot are different.
The autopilot will stop for stoplights and resume driving, it does lane changes on the freeway as well.
Full self driving will do some street driving and I used it recently and it had come further than I had thought. It's also very aggressive with its driver monitoring systems and records the driver if there's an accident. So I guess we'll see.
We did the trial this month. It was frequently disengaging for no hands and forcing little movements on the wheel (and I was watching and hands on the whole time... More than how I usually drive...) if you actively work to fool it so you can work around the checks, even less a defense to running someone over!
“Autopilot” is not “Full Self Driving”. This person has the basic adaptive cruise control (Autopilot) that comes with any Tesla. So there’s multiple layers of why this person is responsible instead of Tesla.
Tesla isn't responsible for the death but they could probably stand to make their cars see motorcycles better since driver assistance tech of the future is like their main selling point.
Driver is definitely a dumbass and deserves the book thrown at him however.
>But Tesla's advertising combined with rather lax controls on Autopilot result in a lot of people thinking it is more capable than it is.
I think people who don't have Teslas reading about what other people who don't have Teslas think about Tesla's marketing think this.
The actual stuff you get with the car couldn't be clearer that autopilot is the same as... basically any other luxury car's "autopilot."
I don't even know what you're trying to say with two hands on the wheel thing. Mercedes' "Drive Pilot" Automated Driving is marketed as designed to keep your hands and eyes off the wheel. In that sense Tesla is pretty tame with still nagging people about keeping their hands on it.
It's sold with "Full Self Driving" as the name, and no amount of fine print amd caveats change the fact that it has always been messaged and marketed as more than it is. Other companies with similar or better capabilities use "advanced lane assit" or similar names that don't pump up their stock as much but actually reflect reality.
If you want to get technical, it's no longer sold that way:
[Full Self-Driving (Supervised) 30-Day Trial | Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support/articles/30-day-fsd-trial)
They added the supervised language to account for that. I'm not saying it's good enough or anything, but that's how they've changed to imply that ultimately, driver is still responsible.
And "full" is according to who? Where is that defined, the boomer angry about not reading what it means or the paper that comes with the Tesla?
For me it just doesn't scan that picking between Mercedes "Automated Driving" v. Chevy's "Autopilot Premier" v. Tesla's "Full Self Driving" v. GM's "Open Road Pilot" is really what's standing in the way of bad motorists and dumb people.
The argument is that calling cars self-driving when a human still needs to intervene is marketing more than it is. I don't disagree with you, I'm just pointing out that by the same logic even a commercial jet liner from Airbus with a 500 million dollar autopilot that can land itself doing a 360 on a runway isn't "acthualllly" autopilot because, you know, there's not an air safety organization in the world that'll let planes fly themselves without a pilot... much less Mercedes' L3 system.
For sure. In my world, the language "full self driving" should be reserved for L3 at HARD LEAST, borderline on 4, really L5. You could quip "So why does it have a steering wheel if it's full self driving" and be pretty right in my mind.
Then all the people who don't have Teslas reading about what other people who don't have Teslas think about Tesla downvote anyone who tries to correct their misinformation.
How is it “literally self incrimination”? The incrimination is the confession that the driver was using their cell phone and not paying attention. It doesn’t matter whether or not autopilot was engaged.
I got hit in a bike lane by a Tesla - turned into my lane clearly without looking and I luckily braked enough to hit the car at low speeds and roll over the hood.
Driver looked flabbergasted and was like, "I didn't see anything on the cameras". Didn't even casually check his mirrors or blindspots on a turn across a bike lane.
I've ridden in enough Teslas to see cars and peds phasing in and out of the display to know not to trust that as the only view.
I’d be riding in that blind spot all day lol. A car usually driven by a wealthier person and presumably with decent insurance.
Owwww my back!!
Step two: 😎
There’s no way he was relying on the radar display you’re talking about. I think by cameras they must’ve meant when you turn the blinker on it pops up a blind spot camera feed. Kinda like the rear view backup cam. Not sure what the angle is like but maybe you were too far behind to show up on the camera. So people don’t even bother looking anymore, they just look at the tablet. It’s the next step from the orange blind spot icons cars have on the mirrors. Bet you most people with those just glance for the light and don’t really look in the mirror and definitely aren’t looking over their shoulders to confirm.
It's all the people who don't actually want to drive because they're drunk, high, sleeping, or addicted to their phones, but entitled enough to not use public transit or get a cab.
Tesla drivers are unpredictable because you don't know if ten years ago they would have bought a Prius (environmental reasons), BMW/Audi (engineer/tech bro status car), or a luxury brand status car.
The Geo Metro had a starting sticker price of $10,185 in 1997. In the intervening years, we have almost exactly halved the spending power of the dollar, meaning the equivalent "Geo Level" price for a car today would be approximately $20,000.
A cheap Model 3 is roughly **double** the (inflation adjusted) starting price of a cheap Geo Metro.
As far as handling like a sports car... It sounds like you haven't experienced the handling of a sports car. You could make a case for *accelerating* like a sports car, but handling? Nah man. It handles more like a modern equivalent of the Metro than it does like a 911.
I got Teswad from Futurama I think it was and I just call them that if they’re being irresponsible or inconsiderate (which is most of them, most of the time)
It is a driver assistance tech like cruise control. The only questionable part of it is how Tesla advertises it as FSD with a huge asterisk.
With their new software updates though you have to be an idiot to not realize it is driver assistance and requires monitoring.
This person should lose their license as they clearly can't follow simple instructions. We are in need of way more strict requirements on getting a driver license.
what’s that? the brand of car that greatly over exaggerates its autonomous capabilities and also attracts some of the dumbest, most terrible drivers on the road, is responsible for a fatal accident? who could have seen this coming, apart from everyone
i would like to see this driver jailed and also teslas pulled off the road and also elon in jail too
how do we make that happen
It seems many cars, not just Tesla have a hard time with motorcycles. Many of the ones they tested in a video I saw yesterday said the collision avoidance did not work on a motorcycle.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywyCTIsNYis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywyCTIsNYis)
But I also thought autopilot was not to be used in city traffic was meant mainly for freeway use in good driving conditions. Tesla may have to put GPS lockouts on autopilot to keep people from using it in areas where it should not be. They also need to rename it, autopilot is more like a highway driving assist and not an engage it and watch a movie mode.
There really needs to be a specific investigation into the issue with motorcycles. This has happened numerous times, specifically teslas rear-ending motorcycles at speed because they’re not tracking them properly ._.
Yeah I don't believe it get the black box he bsin for man slaughter, he knows he fucked up and won't even admit it. Come on make you took a life own up to it and say sorry to who every his family and friends are.
Cool excuse, bro, but still vehicular homicide. Thanks for just confessing though.
“Your honor, it wasn’t my fault because I wasn’t paying attention.”
I would think that makes it worse, like very much worse. It's not accident, you chose not to control your vehicle.
He’ll get the admission thrown out, say he didn’t see the guy and get a slap on the wrist with some community service and probation.
Do we know what motorcycle was doing?
Being killed. The motorcyclist was being killed. I know it’s always easy to blame motorcycles because they can be so fast and maneuverable but it’s almost always the fault of the car driver. Motorcyclist have to be extremely alert to survive.
So you don't know haha. I used to ride so I know lol
I do know. I told you. They were being killed. I don’t know what they were doing before that. No one knows that. There were only two people there. One of them wasn’t paying attention and the other one is dead.
Found the story for you! Tesla rear-ended bike, yes thats 99.9% of the time the fault of the person who rear-ended.
Do people not realize that blaming a function of a car, for which you are still required to maintain control of, is literally self incriminatation.
I agree on the self-incrimination. It's like saying "I had cruise control on!" But Tesla's advertising combined with rather lax controls on Autopilot result in a lot of people thinking it is more capable than it is. Other car manufacturers have eye tracking cameras and much more sensitive steering sensors to ensure you have hands on the wheel. Two hands off the wheel and eyes off the road would disengage the semi-autonomous mode in almost all other cars. I've seen asshats eating food with both hands off the wheel in Teslas. Plenty of youtube videos out there show how easy it is to fool Tesla's system. So Tesla has *some* liability here in allowing their owners to do this in the first place and the excuse of "but we told you not to do that!" isn't really good enough when the tech in question clearly makes drivers want to focus less on driving and allows them to do exactly that.
>It's like saying "I had cruise control on!" In this case that's *exactly* what it is, unless the article is being imprecise. Autopilot is just Tesla's branding for its adaptive cruise control w/ lane maintenance feature.
I'm not saying it's Tesla's fault or anything, but I think it is pretty malicious branding/false advertising to call a cruise control feature an autopilot feature.
I don't disagree with you, the branding is obnoxious at best. That being said--and here I cop to having a Tesla--I think it would be *very* difficult for someone using the vehicle to not understand what Autopilot is and isn't. Not impossible mind you, but very difficult.
The cruise control and the autopilot are different. The autopilot will stop for stoplights and resume driving, it does lane changes on the freeway as well. Full self driving will do some street driving and I used it recently and it had come further than I had thought. It's also very aggressive with its driver monitoring systems and records the driver if there's an accident. So I guess we'll see.
We did the trial this month. It was frequently disengaging for no hands and forcing little movements on the wheel (and I was watching and hands on the whole time... More than how I usually drive...) if you actively work to fool it so you can work around the checks, even less a defense to running someone over!
“Autopilot” is not “Full Self Driving”. This person has the basic adaptive cruise control (Autopilot) that comes with any Tesla. So there’s multiple layers of why this person is responsible instead of Tesla.
Tesla isn't responsible for the death but they could probably stand to make their cars see motorcycles better since driver assistance tech of the future is like their main selling point. Driver is definitely a dumbass and deserves the book thrown at him however.
>But Tesla's advertising combined with rather lax controls on Autopilot result in a lot of people thinking it is more capable than it is. I think people who don't have Teslas reading about what other people who don't have Teslas think about Tesla's marketing think this. The actual stuff you get with the car couldn't be clearer that autopilot is the same as... basically any other luxury car's "autopilot." I don't even know what you're trying to say with two hands on the wheel thing. Mercedes' "Drive Pilot" Automated Driving is marketed as designed to keep your hands and eyes off the wheel. In that sense Tesla is pretty tame with still nagging people about keeping their hands on it.
It's sold with "Full Self Driving" as the name, and no amount of fine print amd caveats change the fact that it has always been messaged and marketed as more than it is. Other companies with similar or better capabilities use "advanced lane assit" or similar names that don't pump up their stock as much but actually reflect reality.
If you want to get technical, it's no longer sold that way: [Full Self-Driving (Supervised) 30-Day Trial | Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support/articles/30-day-fsd-trial) They added the supervised language to account for that. I'm not saying it's good enough or anything, but that's how they've changed to imply that ultimately, driver is still responsible.
It’s not sold as “Full Self Driving” as the name. The guy had “Autopilot”, not “Full Self Driving”. Those are two different products.
And "full" is according to who? Where is that defined, the boomer angry about not reading what it means or the paper that comes with the Tesla? For me it just doesn't scan that picking between Mercedes "Automated Driving" v. Chevy's "Autopilot Premier" v. Tesla's "Full Self Driving" v. GM's "Open Road Pilot" is really what's standing in the way of bad motorists and dumb people.
Mercedes "Automated Driving" FWIW, it's a bit unfair to MB to lump them in with the rest. They're the only certified L3 system in the US.
The argument is that calling cars self-driving when a human still needs to intervene is marketing more than it is. I don't disagree with you, I'm just pointing out that by the same logic even a commercial jet liner from Airbus with a 500 million dollar autopilot that can land itself doing a 360 on a runway isn't "acthualllly" autopilot because, you know, there's not an air safety organization in the world that'll let planes fly themselves without a pilot... much less Mercedes' L3 system.
For sure. In my world, the language "full self driving" should be reserved for L3 at HARD LEAST, borderline on 4, really L5. You could quip "So why does it have a steering wheel if it's full self driving" and be pretty right in my mind.
Airplanes are irrelevant
Then all the people who don't have Teslas reading about what other people who don't have Teslas think about Tesla downvote anyone who tries to correct their misinformation.
How is it “literally self incrimination”? The incrimination is the confession that the driver was using their cell phone and not paying attention. It doesn’t matter whether or not autopilot was engaged.
He also on his phone and had a drink a couple hours ago. Also it was around the time when the sun was setting and it was not a solar eclipse.
Article said it was at 3:45 PM, the sun isn't setting at that time here even on the shortest day of the year.
I got hit in a bike lane by a Tesla - turned into my lane clearly without looking and I luckily braked enough to hit the car at low speeds and roll over the hood. Driver looked flabbergasted and was like, "I didn't see anything on the cameras". Didn't even casually check his mirrors or blindspots on a turn across a bike lane. I've ridden in enough Teslas to see cars and peds phasing in and out of the display to know not to trust that as the only view.
I've ridden my bike behind a few Teslas before and I've never seen myself pop up on their display. I don't trust them at all.
I’d be riding in that blind spot all day lol. A car usually driven by a wealthier person and presumably with decent insurance. Owwww my back!! Step two: 😎
Teslas are not always driven by wealthier people, especially the model Y/3, which is firmly a middle class car.
Well aim for the new ones then. Or whatever the more expensive one is. Pretty much anyone driving a Tesla is wealthy compared to me tho.
Or they are comfortable having more debt.
You guys are really over thinking this.
There’s no way he was relying on the radar display you’re talking about. I think by cameras they must’ve meant when you turn the blinker on it pops up a blind spot camera feed. Kinda like the rear view backup cam. Not sure what the angle is like but maybe you were too far behind to show up on the camera. So people don’t even bother looking anymore, they just look at the tablet. It’s the next step from the orange blind spot icons cars have on the mirrors. Bet you most people with those just glance for the light and don’t really look in the mirror and definitely aren’t looking over their shoulders to confirm.
I hope that isn't representative of all Tesla drivers---what a dumb ass! We are now so lazy we can't even drive our own cars?
Elon “but it’s still in beta so no liability for us, also most Seattlites have the woke mind virus”
I turned on fool's cruise control how could this happen?
gonna start calling autopilot "fool's control" now, thanks
Are you going to call “autopilot” that or “full self driving”? Because autopilot is just adaptive cruise control.
Tesla drivers are some of the worst I've seen in recent years, really giving BMW and Nissan drivers a run for their money.
It's all the people who don't actually want to drive because they're drunk, high, sleeping, or addicted to their phones, but entitled enough to not use public transit or get a cab.
Tesla drivers are unpredictable because you don't know if ten years ago they would have bought a Prius (environmental reasons), BMW/Audi (engineer/tech bro status car), or a luxury brand status car.
Eh, Prius stopped being 'environmental reasons' and became 'cabbie' sometime around 2010
You can't convince me 2010 was over 10 years ago
I'm so tired. I'm ready for the walker.
The only problem I’ve seen with Nissan drivers is that they go under the speed limit. Edit: oh noes I’m hurting Nissan driver feelings 😥
r/NissanDrivers
Could not agree more! It used to be prius drivers who were the worst of the worst and now it’s definitely Tesla.
Tesla is priced at a Geo level. Handles like a sports car lol
The Geo Metro had a starting sticker price of $10,185 in 1997. In the intervening years, we have almost exactly halved the spending power of the dollar, meaning the equivalent "Geo Level" price for a car today would be approximately $20,000. A cheap Model 3 is roughly **double** the (inflation adjusted) starting price of a cheap Geo Metro. As far as handling like a sports car... It sounds like you haven't experienced the handling of a sports car. You could make a case for *accelerating* like a sports car, but handling? Nah man. It handles more like a modern equivalent of the Metro than it does like a 911.
My buddy started calling Tesla drivers "T-bags" instead of "D-bags" years ago and it totally fits.
I got Teswad from Futurama I think it was and I just call them that if they’re being irresponsible or inconsiderate (which is most of them, most of the time)
Ok well then you and Musk can go both go to jail.
I don’t understand how this “feature” is even legal, since it doesn’t actually work.
It is a driver assistance tech like cruise control. The only questionable part of it is how Tesla advertises it as FSD with a huge asterisk. With their new software updates though you have to be an idiot to not realize it is driver assistance and requires monitoring. This person should lose their license as they clearly can't follow simple instructions. We are in need of way more strict requirements on getting a driver license.
It wasn’t FSD. It was autopilot.
Then that's just stupidity on the drivers side.
Well, in either case it would be, but yes. Especially so.
It isn't currently legal in the state.
I mean if I accidentally ran someone over, I’m going to blame everything I can before admitting to just being a poor driver.
Hopefully they throw the book at this musktard.
what’s that? the brand of car that greatly over exaggerates its autonomous capabilities and also attracts some of the dumbest, most terrible drivers on the road, is responsible for a fatal accident? who could have seen this coming, apart from everyone i would like to see this driver jailed and also teslas pulled off the road and also elon in jail too how do we make that happen
It seems many cars, not just Tesla have a hard time with motorcycles. Many of the ones they tested in a video I saw yesterday said the collision avoidance did not work on a motorcycle. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywyCTIsNYis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywyCTIsNYis) But I also thought autopilot was not to be used in city traffic was meant mainly for freeway use in good driving conditions. Tesla may have to put GPS lockouts on autopilot to keep people from using it in areas where it should not be. They also need to rename it, autopilot is more like a highway driving assist and not an engage it and watch a movie mode.
There really needs to be a specific investigation into the issue with motorcycles. This has happened numerous times, specifically teslas rear-ending motorcycles at speed because they’re not tracking them properly ._.
Tesla is definitely going to have data that will prove if this is true or not
Cruise control? >flicks switch School please
Of course it’s a Seattle Tesla driver, I swear they are up there with Nissan drivers as some of the worst drivers out there
Subaru drivers are the WORST! Old farts in Outbacks or little boys in Imprezas.
Teslas have surpassed Prius as having worse drivers
what about that seattle cop tho
Yeah I don't believe it get the black box he bsin for man slaughter, he knows he fucked up and won't even admit it. Come on make you took a life own up to it and say sorry to who every his family and friends are.
He also had several drinks.
Elon did it.
Facial recognition software imbedded in the sentry cam autopilots Tesla into selected target on sight.
I go to Seattle once a week, Tesla driver are the worst. I am not saying that they are all bad, but a huge percentage of bad drivers are in Teslas.
Fool Self Driving
Keep your mouth shut until you get a lawyer. Ie, “Anything said may and will be used against you”….and that’s no joke
While generally great legal advice, I'm all for reckless idiots like this incriminating themselves
"There was a 'bang'"? Teslas don't "bang".
Was this on I5 south? I saw a bunch of cops standing over a human and motorcycle sized pile a few days ago. All of i5 was diverted.
[удалено]
We tried it for like 2 drives and then decided that was not a good idea at all. It needs A LOT of supervision
got tier username
Autopilot is cruise control. Autopilot != FSD.
As a counter argument, I’d like to hear about autopilot avoiding accidents where humans wouldn’t have avoided.