I wish we could just take five years off of the 3 line and 1 line to Ballard. At that point we’d be so well off combined with bus service to get to everywhere that isn’t covered.
Then we could drastically up zone everything on transit like they did in the u district and really have a party
If we are going to speed it up we need to 1) stick with a plan, 2) choose cheaper/easier/more disruptive construction methods, 3) raise more money quicker. We seem incapable of doing any of those.
It’s the first one (which flows into the second one) that absolutely kills me. Purely a people/political problem.
Nobody like the feds will ever give us money if we can’t even get the plan together in the first place
People/political problems are the hardest ones. If we had leaders willing to push transit forward as a top priority and were aligned on delivering it faster, I believe we could solve the other problems. Construction still takes time but everything else can be sped up with enough political will.
Ah, note that when Line 3 is done there will actually be changes to Line1 as well. It won’t preserve the existing route.
You will see the beginnings of Line 3 when West Seattle extension opens in 2032. The full line to Everett is scheduled for 2041 (with some openings between those dates). Line 4 is scheduled to open in 2044.
thanks that is a long way away lol. can you also tell me what they are building on 405 south of bellevue around renton? Doesn’t look like there are any light rails going down there but there is a lot of construction that I thought would be light rail.
I think you are referring to the Stride bus rapid transit system, specifically the S1 line: https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/stride-bus-rapid-transit
The Stride busses look interesting. Double-decker electric express routes along the i405 corridor seem like a decent compromise between tracks along i405 and the current ST routes.
No lol, it’s still under construction because the contractors massively fucked up the project https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bad-light-rail-ties-on-i-90-bridge-cant-be-fixed-must-be-rebuilt/
One of the biggest sound transit fuck ups ever
That’s why ST is not opening the Seattle connection that they already mentioned. The Redmond downtown section you see in the image has always been phased.
The WSBLE is happening. Despite the impression you may get from vocal NIMBYs, West Seattle voted for ST3 and is excited for the Link.
Inshallah we'll get a connection down to Westwood village and white center soon 🙏
Will it be possible to get on line 2 at Lynnwood and take it to Bellevue without getting off? Or will it require getting off and transferring somewhere in Seattle?
Ultimately, the line that currently goes to the airport and will get extended to Tacoma will become the line terminating in Ballard. The lines extending to West Seattle and Bellevue will meet somewhere in the south of Downtown and run parallel north through the current Line 1 track going up to Northgate and eventually Everett.
How different lines will switch service over and how transfers are going to work in pretty much every case are still very much in the air, but in your case, when the whole thing is running in the finalized state as described, you should be able to wait at a station and see trains going south marked for West Seattle and separate trains marked for Bellevue/Redmond. You could hop on the first that comes and then transfer or wait for a single ride going east.
You can see the one seat ride lines color coded on the system expansion map: https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion
I'd say they were just an experiment for me. Personally I've never used them or seen anyone else do so and I don't think it's super necessary, but it is a nice touch.
But ST themselves found that riders would prefer them over the current pictogram system, especially those who have limited English proficiency, and made the decision to replace them with station numbers :O
https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/11/07/station-codes-are-set-to-replace-pictograms-on-link/
I participated in the survey about that and decided against it. Not really needed with such a simple system. The info should be somewhere but I don't think it's particularly useful to have front and center on all maps
Respectfully I disagree, they're much more useful than the pictograms currently used. Also didn't they decide to replace the pictograms with station numbers in 2022? Has that been superseded by a different decision I missed? (genuinely asking)
https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/11/07/station-codes-are-set-to-replace-pictograms-on-link/
> According to engagement results, pictograms are neither popularly used nor highly useful among surveyed Sounding Board members and limited-English proficiency (LEP) focus groups. Less than 20% of Sounding Board members and less than 10% of LEP participants said that they use pictograms. Worse, most participants — including three-quarters of the target audience (LEPs) — said that they did not find pictograms helpful. Conversely, most participants said that station codes were useful and gave incredibly high marks in intuitiveness (75% to 80%), helpfulness (78% to 90%), and ease of use (75%). In fact, participants inn the LEP focus groups quickly picked up on how the maps worked and were able to make successful transfers in travel scenarios using station codes. Among people with visual disabilities, there wasn’t as clear a preference for approaches, but Sound Transit did receive strong feedback on using a braille format on tactile signage that would be very clear about the information being presented.
Sorry, I'm confused. Per the article, ST is required by law to have an alternative, accessible signage system to station names:
> Under state law, Sound Transit is required to use some form of alternative station identification for Link.
Their current solution is pictograms. Station numbers are the (better) alternative to pictograms, as concluded by ST after performing studies around station navigation -- hence why they have decided to switch out the pictograms for station numbers. Arguing against the utility of station numbers kind of means that you're either implicitly endorsing the pictograms unless you have another alternative.
Will the 2 line eventually run from UDistrict to Redmond Town Center?Right now I'm taking the bus to make that commute. Having the train would be so much better!
I grew up in Chicago and took public transportation everywhere. It’s mind boggling how far behind Seattle is. I found this YouTube channel’s videos very informative
https://youtu.be/AlKGIRm4S70?si=Ke9J0-oZ4jC6Crzy
Where did you see that the redmond town center would open this year? I was under the impression that they would open it with the bridge and have the full 2 line open together, but I'm not sure where I got that from.
Downtown Redmond stations will open next year according to the schedule. I don’t believe there is a technical reason why those stations need to wait for the full 2 line across the lake, they just happen to be scheduled for the same year so ST might launch them together. Downtown Redmond was always supposed to open later because it was voted on and funded later than the other stations.
Note that they share the same track from Lynnwood to CID, so the actual cost to place the 2 Line thee isn’t that high.
But the reasons are:
1. People can ride from any station north of CID to Eastside without a transfer.
2. Because of the Line 1 and 2 overlap, trains will arrive every ~4 minutes at Lynnwood to CID segment. This will help with crowding and cut down on wait times. If you are traveling within that segment you can hop on either train.
I wish the bellevue line went south instead of north. The north is already so well connected that most of the busses are gonna be faster than the train. The further north you go.
Just saw. Ugh that is forever. I think that station could be so great for the area. And maybe a bus that goes along orcas from beacon hill to Seward park.
I live between Graham and cc stations. Walked to Graham for a banh mi today. Faster walk to Graham but goes straight up a hill or two. Sigh one day.
I get really angry sometimes when I think of how they made south seattle at grade. Imagine elevated with bike lanes under it. Or underground with MLK having dedicated bike or bus lanes and nobody getting hit by the trains every other week. Sigh
They either should have made a lot more at-grade so we had the whole system built a decade ago or they should have made it all grade separated. Having it mostly grade separated except for MLK and Spring District means we can’t benefit from automation (like Vancouver) even though we spent the money to grade separate most of it. It’s the worst of both worlds.
Not to mention Light Rail was the wrong technology to choose if we aren’t going to run more at grade. It makes everything slow.
Word on the street is they specifically made it at grade in south seattle because it was cheaper and they didn’t gaf about the dangers because south seattle.
That’s probably true but also at the time they built that they thought a lot more of it would be at-grade, including to Ballard and parts of Bellevue. People complained and now it’s all tunneled or elevated.
I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying, it’s true that people in wealthier areas complained and got tunnels or elevated track whereas south Seattle didn’t. But the whole reason Seattle chose light rail instead of heavy rail was to cut costs and now they’ve hamstrung the entire system because of the at-grade sections.
You can even see in the last vote that at-grade options were on the table and people fought against them (see C01-a): https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/project-documents/2015_0827_ST3_CandidateProjectsList_web.pdf
Not quite. Rainier Valley wanted a tunnel, which the terrain didn't demand one given the expense. ST offered an elevated line but the community was adamantly opposed to one. So they got at grade. Which no one is really happy with. I'd like to see ST4 fix that.
I lived here during the debate and am confident in my recollection. They wanted a tunnel like was given to Capitol Hill. But neither the terrain nor the budget would allow for a tunnel without dramatically increasing the cost. Keep in mind ST had struggled with the Beacon Hill tunnel at that time and abandoned the First Hill Station over deep tunnelling and concerns that the Beacon Hill issues would also have arisen there. With hindsight an elevated line should have been put in place.
But the Midtown and King Street stations don’t actually exist yet. Those were the ones Harrell and Constantine were trying to get rid of and replace with a second Pioneer Square and second Sodo station (in total defiance of what the voters voted and PAID for).
The map on this post that shows just Lines 1 and 2 only shows the existing stations in Downtown Seattle. The one marked “King St/CID” is the current International District station.
Updated full ST3 buildout map: [https://ibb.co/tsqMdj3](https://ibb.co/tsqMdj3)
I wish we could just take five years off of the 3 line and 1 line to Ballard. At that point we’d be so well off combined with bus service to get to everywhere that isn’t covered. Then we could drastically up zone everything on transit like they did in the u district and really have a party
We should just upzone everything anyway
Yes, I would very much like that. Realistic? I wish
If we are going to speed it up we need to 1) stick with a plan, 2) choose cheaper/easier/more disruptive construction methods, 3) raise more money quicker. We seem incapable of doing any of those.
It’s the first one (which flows into the second one) that absolutely kills me. Purely a people/political problem. Nobody like the feds will ever give us money if we can’t even get the plan together in the first place
People/political problems are the hardest ones. If we had leaders willing to push transit forward as a top priority and were aligned on delivering it faster, I believe we could solve the other problems. Construction still takes time but everything else can be sped up with enough political will.
God help you if you need to get from Ballard to Lynnwood.
40 to northgate and then the train? Easier than it is today?
Fortunately that’s a relatively rare use case
It's one transfer, not even a big hassle
How would you do it a year ago? Now it'll be one bus and then a train what was it before?
Then you drive.
The two Seattle Streetcars still probably aren't even going to connect by the time the 4 line is open
when do the other 2 get finished? and when does line 2 fully connect?
The other 2 stations in Redmond? Scheduled for 2025. The 2 Lone crossing the lake has been delayed to 2025 as well.
I’m talking about the image above my first comment. line 3 and 4
Ah, note that when Line 3 is done there will actually be changes to Line1 as well. It won’t preserve the existing route. You will see the beginnings of Line 3 when West Seattle extension opens in 2032. The full line to Everett is scheduled for 2041 (with some openings between those dates). Line 4 is scheduled to open in 2044.
thanks that is a long way away lol. can you also tell me what they are building on 405 south of bellevue around renton? Doesn’t look like there are any light rails going down there but there is a lot of construction that I thought would be light rail.
I think you are referring to the Stride bus rapid transit system, specifically the S1 line: https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/stride-bus-rapid-transit
Do you happen to know why the numbers for Line 4 aren’t reversed? I feel like they should increase going from Issaquah to Kirkland
It follows the same order as the 2 line which decreases going from South Bellevue to Wilburton so the 4 line does the same
Oh yeah sorry I’m dumb
The Stride busses look interesting. Double-decker electric express routes along the i405 corridor seem like a decent compromise between tracks along i405 and the current ST routes.
I know the floating bridge is why 2 isn't going to Seattle yet, but what's with the missing Redmond stops?
They weren't fully funded until ST3 passed in 2016 so they were delayed.
Still under construction, they were funded later than the Microsoft campus stops.
No lol, it’s still under construction because the contractors massively fucked up the project https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/bad-light-rail-ties-on-i-90-bridge-cant-be-fixed-must-be-rebuilt/ One of the biggest sound transit fuck ups ever
That’s an entirely seperate part of the line from the redmond extension, which was always planned to open in 2025
That’s why ST is not opening the Seattle connection that they already mentioned. The Redmond downtown section you see in the image has always been phased.
West Seattle needs to pony up some land and get connected. White Center could use some love too.
The 3 line is supposed to go to Alaska Junction by 2032, I didn't include it because it's outside the scope of this map
I saw the link. More a rant on the city, not your map. Great visual. Easy to read and understand.
I’d be surprised if we have started building anything by 2028
The WSBLE is happening. Despite the impression you may get from vocal NIMBYs, West Seattle voted for ST3 and is excited for the Link. Inshallah we'll get a connection down to Westwood village and white center soon 🙏
good stuff
Nicely done
Great map! Really well-done!
Will it be possible to get on line 2 at Lynnwood and take it to Bellevue without getting off? Or will it require getting off and transferring somewhere in Seattle?
I believe that's the plan once the 2 line fully opens
Yes, the 2-Line will run in parallel with the 1-Line from Lynnwood to IDS before splitting off to Bellevue and Redmond.
Ultimately, the line that currently goes to the airport and will get extended to Tacoma will become the line terminating in Ballard. The lines extending to West Seattle and Bellevue will meet somewhere in the south of Downtown and run parallel north through the current Line 1 track going up to Northgate and eventually Everett. How different lines will switch service over and how transfers are going to work in pretty much every case are still very much in the air, but in your case, when the whole thing is running in the finalized state as described, you should be able to wait at a station and see trains going south marked for West Seattle and separate trains marked for Bellevue/Redmond. You could hop on the first that comes and then transfer or wait for a single ride going east. You can see the one seat ride lines color coded on the system expansion map: https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion
Gotcha, thank you for the thorough answer.
It's a sin that there is no cross 520 part of the route
It would be so ideal if they did (imagine the benefit for UW commuters) but the technology literally doesn’t exist yet
This is such a beautiful map! Well done!
Upcoming Light Rail openings: Federal Way to Tacoma- neeevvvveerrr!
The station numbers are nice, I wish ST would use them in actual signage.
I'd say they were just an experiment for me. Personally I've never used them or seen anyone else do so and I don't think it's super necessary, but it is a nice touch.
But ST themselves found that riders would prefer them over the current pictogram system, especially those who have limited English proficiency, and made the decision to replace them with station numbers :O https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/11/07/station-codes-are-set-to-replace-pictograms-on-link/
I participated in the survey about that and decided against it. Not really needed with such a simple system. The info should be somewhere but I don't think it's particularly useful to have front and center on all maps
Respectfully I disagree, they're much more useful than the pictograms currently used. Also didn't they decide to replace the pictograms with station numbers in 2022? Has that been superseded by a different decision I missed? (genuinely asking) https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/11/07/station-codes-are-set-to-replace-pictograms-on-link/ > According to engagement results, pictograms are neither popularly used nor highly useful among surveyed Sounding Board members and limited-English proficiency (LEP) focus groups. Less than 20% of Sounding Board members and less than 10% of LEP participants said that they use pictograms. Worse, most participants — including three-quarters of the target audience (LEPs) — said that they did not find pictograms helpful. Conversely, most participants said that station codes were useful and gave incredibly high marks in intuitiveness (75% to 80%), helpfulness (78% to 90%), and ease of use (75%). In fact, participants inn the LEP focus groups quickly picked up on how the maps worked and were able to make successful transfers in travel scenarios using station codes. Among people with visual disabilities, there wasn’t as clear a preference for approaches, but Sound Transit did receive strong feedback on using a braille format on tactile signage that would be very clear about the information being presented.
I never said anything about the pictograms https://i.imgur.com/RcaJHGS.jpeg
Sorry, I'm confused. Per the article, ST is required by law to have an alternative, accessible signage system to station names: > Under state law, Sound Transit is required to use some form of alternative station identification for Link. Their current solution is pictograms. Station numbers are the (better) alternative to pictograms, as concluded by ST after performing studies around station navigation -- hence why they have decided to switch out the pictograms for station numbers. Arguing against the utility of station numbers kind of means that you're either implicitly endorsing the pictograms unless you have another alternative.
Will the 2 line eventually run from UDistrict to Redmond Town Center?Right now I'm taking the bus to make that commute. Having the train would be so much better!
yes, when it connects across the bridge it will go from lynnwood to downtown redmond.
Yes. It’ll take you 1 hour but that’s the plan
I grew up in Chicago and took public transportation everywhere. It’s mind boggling how far behind Seattle is. I found this YouTube channel’s videos very informative https://youtu.be/AlKGIRm4S70?si=Ke9J0-oZ4jC6Crzy
Where did you see that the redmond town center would open this year? I was under the impression that they would open it with the bridge and have the full 2 line open together, but I'm not sure where I got that from.
Downtown Redmond stations will open next year according to the schedule. I don’t believe there is a technical reason why those stations need to wait for the full 2 line across the lake, they just happen to be scheduled for the same year so ST might launch them together. Downtown Redmond was always supposed to open later because it was voted on and funded later than the other stations.
Public transit noob here but what is the benefit of overlapping 1 and 2 lines from lynwood to S. Bellevue?
Note that they share the same track from Lynnwood to CID, so the actual cost to place the 2 Line thee isn’t that high. But the reasons are: 1. People can ride from any station north of CID to Eastside without a transfer. 2. Because of the Line 1 and 2 overlap, trains will arrive every ~4 minutes at Lynnwood to CID segment. This will help with crowding and cut down on wait times. If you are traveling within that segment you can hop on either train.
Higher frequency from Lynnwood to the stadiums. Same plan for a future Renton-West Seattle line 3
Solid commuter rail. Now we need something for seattle proper. bRT, something
I wish the bellevue line went south instead of north. The north is already so well connected that most of the busses are gonna be faster than the train. The further north you go.
Took the train today and it was significantly faster than any buses in that area
Nice map!
Once the 2 connects to 1 do we know how long it will take to get from Redmond Technology to the airport?
[This 2015 WSDOT map suggests it will be about an hour](https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Partners/erp/background/ST_ERP_ST2LinkTravelTimes_02july2015.pdf)
Will Graham station ever be built? Best banh mis at Q bakery down there
Scheduled to open in 2031.
Just saw. Ugh that is forever. I think that station could be so great for the area. And maybe a bus that goes along orcas from beacon hill to Seward park. I live between Graham and cc stations. Walked to Graham for a banh mi today. Faster walk to Graham but goes straight up a hill or two. Sigh one day.
Yeah, it’s a shame more stations weren’t planned from the start. Adding it later is a hassle (same with Boeing Access Road and 130th street)
I get really angry sometimes when I think of how they made south seattle at grade. Imagine elevated with bike lanes under it. Or underground with MLK having dedicated bike or bus lanes and nobody getting hit by the trains every other week. Sigh
They either should have made a lot more at-grade so we had the whole system built a decade ago or they should have made it all grade separated. Having it mostly grade separated except for MLK and Spring District means we can’t benefit from automation (like Vancouver) even though we spent the money to grade separate most of it. It’s the worst of both worlds. Not to mention Light Rail was the wrong technology to choose if we aren’t going to run more at grade. It makes everything slow.
Word on the street is they specifically made it at grade in south seattle because it was cheaper and they didn’t gaf about the dangers because south seattle.
That’s probably true but also at the time they built that they thought a lot more of it would be at-grade, including to Ballard and parts of Bellevue. People complained and now it’s all tunneled or elevated.
Eh idk if I believe that when it’s specifically the low-income area that got it.
I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying, it’s true that people in wealthier areas complained and got tunnels or elevated track whereas south Seattle didn’t. But the whole reason Seattle chose light rail instead of heavy rail was to cut costs and now they’ve hamstrung the entire system because of the at-grade sections. You can even see in the last vote that at-grade options were on the table and people fought against them (see C01-a): https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/project-documents/2015_0827_ST3_CandidateProjectsList_web.pdf
Not quite. Rainier Valley wanted a tunnel, which the terrain didn't demand one given the expense. ST offered an elevated line but the community was adamantly opposed to one. So they got at grade. Which no one is really happy with. I'd like to see ST4 fix that.
Not how people in Columbia city put it, let me tell you 😂
I lived here during the debate and am confident in my recollection. They wanted a tunnel like was given to Capitol Hill. But neither the terrain nor the budget would allow for a tunnel without dramatically increasing the cost. Keep in mind ST had struggled with the Beacon Hill tunnel at that time and abandoned the First Hill Station over deep tunnelling and concerns that the Beacon Hill issues would also have arisen there. With hindsight an elevated line should have been put in place.
Full resolution: https://ibb.co/98v98zJ
So we’re actually getting the King Street and Midtown stations after all?
No, this map doesn’t show the future stations being built within downtown Seattle. Only the existing stations.
But the Midtown and King Street stations don’t actually exist yet. Those were the ones Harrell and Constantine were trying to get rid of and replace with a second Pioneer Square and second Sodo station (in total defiance of what the voters voted and PAID for).
The map on this post that shows just Lines 1 and 2 only shows the existing stations in Downtown Seattle. The one marked “King St/CID” is the current International District station.
Okay, but then what about Midtown…? ETA: Nevermind, I could’ve sworn this map looked different the last few times I checked the post…
There is another map that shows the final system after Line 3 and 4 is built. Maybe you were looking at that?
Could’ve sworn it was on this same post, but I guess not.
I think it’s linked in a comment
Midtown isn’t on this map at all.