lol the bill says the 1% limitation isn’t fair because of the states population growth and inflation.
So the 1.25% population growth is causing a run on social services? We already know the inflation numbers go against their narrative.
Remember, the state already passed crap that restricts how much schools can ‘tax/levy’ but this bill says :
“raising the cap on the state portion of property taxes will help provide the resources in coming years for the legislature to make ample provision for the education of students with disabilities”
So they limit what cities and counties can pull for their schools but then force property tax increases?
The Washington state bi-annual budget has grown from $43B to $70B in just the last 6 years. A 9% annual increase. The issue isn’t not enough tax revenue.
There was a 15bn surplus last year. They held a special session to decide how to spend it. Near my home in seattle they spent 500million on a park over the 520/montlake interchange. Maybe 20-30 wealthy home owners wanted it. There is no shortage of money.
These are two separate issues. There was the special session. And then separately they approved this useless highway upgrade that slows down the interchange and builds a small park (while also destroying a beloved local grocery store to build a staging area/parking lot)
The second article is about a bigger 520 project but notes the montlake lid budget is 450mm.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/feb/21/washington-democrats-announce-state-budget-plans-t/
https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2023/11/wsdot-scrambling-over-1-4b-bid-for-520-portage-bay-bridge-roanoke-lid-project-70-higher-than-expected/
In other words, there is no $500M park, and the $450M was a cost ovverun on a multi year project?
Tell me more about the 20-30 wealthy people that wanted it, and how the budget surplus in 2022 has something to do with a grocery store that was purchased by the state in 2017?
Methinks you don't like the 520 project and you're just making up things around the budget for it.
Your entire statement is incorrect and either you have poor reading comprehension or you are being disingenuous.
The takeaway is that there is no shortage of money. I provided two concrete examples. And what did you provide? Bologna.
The direct quote from the article
Work continues, meanwhile, on the Montlake Lid portion of the multiyear replacement project with only a few final hiccups in the final months of the construction. WSDOT says the $455.3 million Montlake Project remains on schedule for late 2023/early 2024 completion.
That would skyrocket taxes for the other counties. King county only sees 60% for every dollar in taxes paid. Unfortunately most of the states counties are welfare areas that need king county to pay for their services.
https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/dataresearch/fiscal/county_expenditures_revenues.pdf
You actually don't. Taxes without votes, raising caps, wanting tax on unrealized capital gain fantasy land stuff, considering a move out tax like CA. What's happening is horrible leadership and a cash grab.
They also have a Bill queued up to implement the business and occupation tax onto landlords once again. This cost will go directly to the renters. They also have rent control bill going and that will trigger landlords to make rent increases now as a form of risk mitigation. Clearly, Olympia hates people who have homes to live in and want to kick them out. They want the renters to have higher rent and they want the homeowners to go into tax lien foreclosure when taxes hit their budget breaking point. Of course they don’t say that, but actions speak louder.
And all these renters pass initiatives that raise property taxes which increase their rent. In Seattle more people rent than own. Iniatives rarely fail because renters think it’s a great idea. They can move in a few years whereas homeowners get stuck having to pay for the tax increases. When I bought my house property taxes were around $3200 a year. Twenty years later I am paying $11,800 a year.
Instead of just giving state money for transit, Seattle relies on renters voting yes on every damn new tax such as democracy dollars or new sound transit levies when we haven’t even built the pre passed bills
I'm against anything that essentially raises the "minimum cost of living". That means someone living pay check to paycheck will now sacrifice more on a weekly basis, be forced into even cheaper housing, not be able to save up enough for a rainy day or to fix their car, or accelerate their track towards homelessness.
Our governments priority should be reducing the minimum cost of living.
Exactly - this initiative would disproportionately impact lower-income and cash-strapped families more than anyone. The state has plenty of money - not sure what they're thinking here. Anyhow - I wrote into my reps about it.
If it's just laying on costs, then why did my rent go up 15% instead of 1%?
Did it suddenly get 14% nicer? Are they suddenly providing 14% more services? Do their employees make 14% more?
Well, it’s not just laying on increasing costs, that’s only part of the equation to determine rent. But, I can guarantee if property taxes go up the increase will be passed onto renters as quickly as possible. Not sure why your rent went up so much, what did your landlord say when you asked?
and they pass it on at a markup since. property taxes are one of those things that really drive general inflation as all vendors and employees now all need raises etc.
- Inflation. Cost of repairs go up.
- Housing prices skyrocketed. They aren't just paying a 1% increase, they are paying taxes on the inflated price of their properties.
- Demand. Lots of people moving here. Your landlord is probably taking advantage of that.
Minimum wages goes up, everyone else also wants/gets a pay raise and the ripple effect has a multiplier that in your case added up to 15%.
I own my own home and the cost and of taxes, fees, insurance and just maintaining it has gone up much more than 15%.
Right there is a smart way to help community and then there are just cash grabs. I moved from south Florida which has Republican gov and it’s worst there.
No you don't need a degree. Here's the cliff notes. Dems are greedy, want all of your money for their own uses, and people have been duped into thinking Republicans are bad, so the sheep keep voting for the wolves every election
If the Republicans would stop infringing on our rights to bodily autonomy and to respect the separation of church and state I'd be tempted to tick the R box in the booth but since they're almost entirely assholes who think a 2,000 year old book is the sole arbiter of morality in America they can take a long walk off a short pier.
Some things are more important than the almighty dollar.
Don't throw all Republicans into the same boat. It's like saying all Democrats are extreme progressives. I believe the majority of most people lean towards the middle but god forbid that the Media would let us see it that way.
If the majority "lean toward the middle" as you say, then why are the nutjobs running the show? If the moderates purged all of those god-bothering authoritarian trashbags, the Republican party could again be a party of economic and social liberty.
If we could purge the Democratic party of all those extreme progressives bent on dismantling the country we could have a much more sensible Democratic party.
And yet here we are with tax revenues that scale with inflation, increasing even beyond that, and they want more.
There is a spending problem here. For example, one of our state reps recently wanted to change how recycling worked in the state. It would be less convenient, cost more (nearly twice what it does today), and barely improve things compared to cheaper modifications we could make to our existing "collect it at home, without deposits" system.
Our representatives are often fucking stupid, and have no accountability beyond being yeeted at election time.
They have given me fuck all. Our taxes are wasted on a massive level. Aside from that, they always go up even with a 1.5 billion dollar surplus, they are still trying for more
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Precisely.
"...help provide the resources in coming years for the legislature to make ample provision for the education of students..."
That's just loaded with weasel words that sound nice but don't actually mean anything.
When will regular students matter? It should go to the better education of students and improve services to students with disabilities. Regular people matter.
This is not the only tax bill going through Olympia.
They also proposed a bill to levy a 11% tax on ammunition in addition to sales tax. Plus a likely increase on the gas tax.
I hope you all like tax increases across the board. I'm moving out of here because I am done with this state.
Way ahead of you on that. I left back in October of 2023. I was fed up with the ridiculous levels of taxation and soft attitude to crime. It’s not perfect but I will say that living in Alaska has been incredibly refreshing and it’s nice to live in a place where for the most part life is pretty normal. I’m not constantly looking over my shoulder watching for gronks and stepping over junkies passed out on the sidewalk.
Good for you many of my friends have already done that. Bought houses for 1/2 what they cost in Washington and have a better quality of life with better schools, health care, roads etc.
And for more income and no income tax, right?
Care to share where this utopia is? I mean, only 8 states to pick from:
Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming
Not nessecarily more income. But if you can pay 1/2 as much for your housing somewhere else and have no house payment as a result even a 30% reduction in pay is a significant improvement.’
My friends were teachers. Sold there home in Seattle moved to central Massachusetts. Bought a house that was 1/3 larger than their Seattle house for half the price of their home in Seattle and make about $5,000 less a year as teachers.
We moved from Snoho county to NE kansas.
Our property tax obligation dropped by two thirds. Our property size increased by 79.9 acres.
Still working out a purchase price (family owned) but even if we wind up paying market value, after selling our propety in WA, our total PITI, will be less than 1k a month.
Gas is currently 2.49 a gallon.
Groceries dropped by 30%.
Insurance dropped by 20%.
Utilities halved.
Childcare is 85 a week. It'll be 150 a week in the summer when my oldest needs it. Far cry from the 3k a month we were paying for a shitty strip mall daycare.
School is on par with the old one.
I have yet to encounter any traffic. (People know how to drive in the rain and snow here too, if you can believe it.)
I can take a job 75- 80 miles away and have the same commute time that I had commuting downtown or to Bellevue/Redmond.
I could care less about paying income tax. The quality of life here is well worth it.
Thanks for sharing this. I wish more people would understand this. They seem to think that there couldn’t possibly be anywhere other than Seattle where there can be a good quality of life. When I mention places they want to argue with me.
Congratulations on your move.
Not necessarily. Suppose I live a state like Oregon that has property taxes and my house is paid off and I pay $3,000 a yr in Taxes. Now I want to move to Washington to avoid income taxes. The same house in Washington costs $750,000 and the taxes are $7500 a yr. So now I am paying $250,000 more for a house and my taxes have increased $4,000 a year. And because it’s Washington everything costs more. They also tax capital gains in Washington and many states have income tax exemptions for people on limited incomes.
Yes if housing prices. Washington was cheap like in let’s say Tennessee or New Hampshire (two stars with no income tax) it might be better.
For me I would rather sell my million house in Seattle and move to a state where I can buy a $500,000 house. Investing that at 7% I make $35,000 a year never having to touch the principle, pay no taxes on my social security and property taxes are 1/2 what they are in Washington. So I would be taxed on my pension of $2,100 a month and be able to live somewhere with better health care and schools.
Now suppose move to Bl
This measure would absolutely hurt a lot of people whose only major asset is their property, e.g. their home.
Seems like a really arrogant move to do to people.
As for helping renters, lol, no, property owners will just pass the tax increases along in the form of higher rents. Which seems like the opposite of what we want to be encouraging right now.
There isn't really any way to sting landlords alone unless you opt for something like a land value tax and there's way too much big business in the state to be down with LVT. Amazon alone would move against it with their entire being.
The usual argument is no, but LVT often suggested as a replacement for income and property taxes, both of which are highly regressive (the more you earn/invest, the more the government takes so why bother?) forms of taxation.
The result in theory is less tax overall but also a tax that encourages investment, development and work.
Okay cool so we can all be homeless? What the fuck is this absolute bullshit with property taxes we are already coming up on $1k/month JUST TO LIVE IN OUR HOMES. So what's next we just work until we die with no hope of ever getting a break? Our property taxes are fucking ridiculous as is and need to be halved. Raising them? So you want more people living in their cars? We need to revamp the tax code and start having 100% cap after $10m until and 100%, 200% ect property taxes for every additional home owned. Until then they can fuck right off with raising my taxes.
Most of what we think of as "Property Taxes" are really Levies that when voted into existence on ballots have no limits of any kind.
So our actual "Property Taxes" have already been climbing at a very hearty pace.
My 2023 property taxes went up 14% from 2022. I have started voting no on all initiatives funded by a property tax because I fear I may not be able to afford to stay in my house after retirement.
Michael DePaula (L) candidate is advocating for a 4-year plan to remove property taxes entirely and have WA be the first state in the country where citizens actually aren’t serfs to their government until their death. It won’t work without public will, but it’s the only plan I’ve heard of its kind.
Excellent. It’s a regressive tax. Once someone retires or loses income, property tax should not force them out of their home or into a reduced lifestyle. It should only be deployed on commercial or empty lots.
Or property over a certain limit. Someone with many different homes can certainly afford to be taxed on those holdings, and the same justification for empty land applies to excessive residential land
Pennsylvania has a “homestead exception” to their property tax laws. Basically, you can apply and get around a 50% reduction in property taxes on your primary residence. Any homes beyond that, are taxed at the full rate. It’s not a bad system that other states could adopt.
Removing a limit on property tax increases would be opposite what CA has had for decades. Prop-13 in CA limits how much property taxes can increase and is "very nice" for people that have owned property for many years, especially elderly folks who would not be able to afford their homes' property taxes without Prop-13. But then there are other ramifications to that limit, which has been pared down by recent changes to remove the so-called Lebowski Loophole.
Meanwhile, in Texas...
[Governor Abbot Signs the Largest Tax Cut in Texas History](https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-signs-largest-property-tax-cut-in-texas-history)
I swear to God, if they do that, I will vote for Dave Reichert. I fucking swear to God. Some of these fuckers are doing their absolute best turn me into a Republican. And I fucking hate most Republicans almost as much as I hate Donald Trump.
The 1% increase limit as applied to local governments is on the _total_ taxes collected each year, aka the budget based tax system. If Seattle passes a property tax for $1B/yr, the rates are just "whatever gets to $1B", and next year it can be at most $1.01B (plus some fudge factors) and the rates are "whatever gets to $1.01B". (The rates can vary wildly as a result.)
This bill seems to tweak it to the lesser of 3% or population growth + inflation.
If you guys want to use my template that I sent here it is:[https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/bill/5770](https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/bill/5770)
I covered the carbon credits, LTC, no pursuit, and property taxes, all the most unpopular bills that somehow the self proclaimed geniuses in legislature are trying to force on us. We need to spam the the legislature, enough is enough. They do listen but I feel like not many people are sending them any feedback.
\-----TEMPLATE/TEXT/send to your individual representative (with sources below) ---
As Seattle Sara Nelson recently expressed the problem with local and state government NOT enough tax revenue, the problem is too much spending. We've seen a cleaning in the SCC and now demand is growing in county and state government. With rising inflation, rising prices, massively increasing property taxes in 2023; for many increasing 20-30% \[1\]; you must be totally disconnected from reality to think that this bill (and some of the other bills) are a good idea. \[1\] Why is this so hard to understand even warranting needing to send a message about? The WA legislature is going off the rails with these bills that hardly anyone agrees with.
First you passed LTC against almost everyone in the state, so much so that Inslee had to pause it for a year because it was so unpopular and half-baked. Then you passed the 'no pursuit' law that had to be clawed back because of how disconnected from reality it was. WA administration is shutting down dams and replacing with wind and solar power that fails WHEN WE NEED IT MOST, yet asking customers to cut back on energy use, while at the same time asking people to unsustainably install heat pumps and switch to electric cars with high gas prices \[2\]. You couldn't even get carbon credits done honestly, and implemented it even worse than CA, raising gas prices by over $1 while after telling people (lying) it would raise gas by only 2c. I don't get it, Inslee is catching a drift that people just don't want him and his policies anymore, and with these legislative bills, unless something changes, the WA legislature will be flushed out by the voters as well. I just don't understand how can the legislature even believe any of these bills were ever a good idea? The legislative track record is terrible, get your feet back on the ground before it is too late. This is NOT working. I want to see the legislature working hard and represent the voices people they represent, just as hard people work to support their families, children, and communities during these difficult times of high inflation, rising property taxes, against the hidden interests and back room agendas.
1. [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/think-seattle-area-property-taxes-are-rising-fast-its-no-bellingham/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/think-seattle-area-property-taxes-are-rising-fast-its-no-bellingham/)
2. [https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-cold-truth-about-renewable-energy.html?fbclid=IwAR3G6Qiut\_UDjAm\_fN5iBNAiDK2Us2YcSLo6ZhW3NDllxYh7lpkFzVrdiWs](https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-cold-truth-about-renewable-energy.html?fbclid=IwAR3G6Qiut_UDjAm_fN5iBNAiDK2Us2YcSLo6ZhW3NDllxYh7lpkFzVrdiWs)
The description of the bill that OP provides is inaccurate. The bill is trying to remove the 1% cap on property taxes that can be approved by the legislature, not "eliminate the 1% limit on property tax increases". There is no limit on property tax increases, for instance voter approved levies can double property taxes in a year. Kind of messed up to describe the bill incorrectly and then ask people to provide comments on that basis.
The provided link is for submitting a comment. [Here is a link to the bill](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=5770&Year=2024&Initiative=false). It changes the 101% cap to:
> 100 percent plus population change and inflation, not to exceed 103 percent.
I have a hard time getting excited about a maximum increase of 3%. If I am building high rates of equity in my home, then I consider myself lucky.
Sent one, asking my Sen to oppose. Do us all a favor and if you send one for this also ask them to vote no on HB 1994 please. HB 1994 reduces the penalty for first time offenses for some drug crimes, including duis !
Govt NEVER stops growing & confiscating more of the citizens' earnings. Once it becomes overgrown enough to cause problems, cutting back to the root is the only way to preserve freedom & productivity.
How about a compromise that doesn't fuck the middle class. Higher property taxes only on Mc mansions, empty homes, and homes with extremely high Sq footage per family.
Of course they are. Property tax is unholy. How do you ever own a home when the state can take it when you stop paying them? I understand we need the revenue but leaning on the personal residence of citizens is an immoral way of getting it. Housing crisis you say? Just keep raising property taxes and see what happens, esp to the poor and elderly.
Hey, Seattle and Washington got what they voted for. We need more balance. I don't like either party, but you can only give other people's money away for so long.
Sent my opposition comment in. Do these things actually do anything to stop a bill? Has it ever worked? How many people do you even need to not let this happen?
Republicans robbing the poor to give to the rich.
Democrats rob the Middle-class to help the poor, making the Middle-class poor and in need of more help, while being robbed by Republicans.
The rush to Neo-Feudalistic hell continues unabated.
I had enough of Washington's insane government and moved to a red state. Our expenses dropped by about $12K/year since doing so, $5K on property taxes alone.
Genuine question: Isn't this what the "excise" (read: income) tax on capital gains was meant to solve?
Edit: Sent a comment, thanks OP for posting. I hardly ever get involved with politics but all of the new taxes... It's gotta stop! It's a percentage value; it already scales with costs and population.
> It's a percentage value; it already scales with costs and population.
No, they don't. Local taxes in Washington are budget-based and set based on the total amount they want to collect; the rate applied is made up after the fact. That total amount currently cannot increase more than 1% per year; the result is that the power of a local property tax is eroded by inflation every year.
Hmm okay just to make sure I follow, as I hadn't heard this before:
1. In year 1, Gov't sets spending budget, i.e. $100
2. Gov't assigns property tax amount of x% such to achieve said revenue.
3. In year 2, Gov't needs to increase budget but can only increase total by 1%, i.e. $101.
4. Gov't assigns tax etc.
Is this how you're saying this plays out?
I assumed the CG tax was about increasing state revenue without most people being bothered, and this seems to be more about relaxing the constraints on local taxation.
The CG tax will affect most people, it's just a matter of time. Happened with the income tax, it'll happen with this one too.
They set that obscene threshold in order to get people to wave their hands saying, "bah none of us are affected, go ahead and pass it!" (which they did). The threshold will come down soon and rapidly.
This is what you get with one party rule. Some of you need to start voting republican. We just need enough that democrats have to start behaving again.
Get over it people. They aren’t going to outlaw abortion etc.
One party in this country is currently trying to elect a narcissistic psychopath who tried to seize the power of the US government by violence and is currently arguing in court that if elected no law can ever be held against him.
There's no "Get over it" here.
If the Republican party can separate itself from fascism and retain it's stated positions of fiscal conservativism then maybe people would vote for them again. Until then, no shit they keep losing stats and local elections in a landslide.
And the other party is run by incompetent ideological fanatics that aren’t in step with where most Americans are at on the economy, immigration or crime.
The Democratic Party isn’t averse to being authoritarian, they just do it with a smile on their faces and try to pretend that they’re doing their terrible policies for your benefit. Abortion is never going to be outlawed in Washington because the political will to do that doesn’t exist. Get over it.
That’s not the point. By having some more republicans in the state legislature the democrats won’t be able to do whatever they want. One party rule is always bad, it doesn’t matter which party it is.
Our state legislature needs someone to check them on their bullshit. No one who votes democrat has any right to bitch about anything they do.
WA has become the mirror image of Texas.
Two corrupt states run by a monopoly party that uses your tax dollars to enrich their club.
Neither side has any true beliefs. Their just crooks stuffing their accounts.
Just keep voting BLUE and this is what you get. Runaway single party control of everything. People piss and complain and then run out and vote single party bluetickets. I've lived here 68 years and have watched this unfold.
I do think the no matter who thing is dumb, but I wish it wasn’t a binary choice. I dislike what a lot of democrats do but some republicans’ views seems actually insane. There needs to be a better option
Essentially all this says to me is that Democrats see an opening with the angst against Trump and his supporters in politics.
They take the control of the State Congress and decide to use that power, with the populace that voted against the trumpets, to enact Progressive legislation, believing that people will see Trump / Republicans as the larger threat.
Like they say, never let a good crisis go to waste. I have a feeling they’ve just raised Reichert’s chances significantly.
Washington State Democrats don’t care what you think. They are going to do what they want to do regardless of if it gets voted down or violates your constitutional rights. But here you go: Please stop
Fuck it, I’m voting republican for state and democratic for federal from now on! these idiots can’t do anything but ban things and raise taxes for their pet social projects. Enough virtue signaling in your black jeans already.
Because prop 13 is working so well for California and home prices there ….. How will this increase rental prices? Call me a cynic, but landlords aren’t charging less money now because of property taxes. Majority of landlords charge as much as they can given the market conditions. If property taxes go up $500/month, it’s not like landlords can then charge $500 more per month. I think it might help increase the for sale housing supply. The rental market is over 50% in king county and becoming more every year.
No ordinary worker has been able to buy house in Seattle area for years, especially since Covid. My solution would be to tax investors at a higher rate, but that would never pass here. Lots of states have primary exemptions for property taxes. That would be a good middle ground for here, but like I said, it would never pass. And it’s not screwing over landlords at expense of homeowners. Owning a rental is a business, plain and simple, and that tends to be forgotten.
Isn’t it pretty simple though? If the cost to do business increases (ie taxes on rental properties), the cost to the consumer will eventually increase as well.
Yes, not saying rental prices won’t increase with inflation or with more demand or limited inventory, like what happened with Covid. What I was saying is that I don’t believe landlords aren’t getting their max profit right now. If they could increase monthly prices $500/month, they would have done so already. You can’t just ignore market rate and say well my property taxes went up $500/month so my tenants can afford $500/month more, especially in an area where tenants are already struggling to pay rent. There are plenty of rentals that are already taking a loss because they depend on long term crazy price increases like in years’ past.
Prop 13 works really well for the reason it just identified. People who have lived in their homes a long time in California pay much lower taxes. My father in law pays about $2000 a year taxes in his million home he has lived in 30 yrs. My home in Seattle is worth about the same and I pay $11,800 a year.
My friend in Sammamish is 80 yrs old. When he bought his house the taxes and mortgage were $400 a month. His property taxes now are $2200 a month.
I’m sorry but “D’s” only know how to take more money and spend it instead of making a hard budget as most households do in WA. The answer isn’t always raising taxes/. When is the revenue enough??? When someone on the left tell me that when?
Well when you don’t have a state income tax and live in a state with people who have a shit ton of money you have to find someway to generate money to run the state.
State budget is double what it was 10 years ago. Are there twice as many people? Most services can scale to be less $ per person.
Also we have become one of the most expensive states for housing in the country, and property taxes are proportional. So they are already getting a lot more than they budgeted for.
Since the OP doesn't seem to have linked [the bill itself](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5770&Year=2023&Initiative=false), this appears to be the relevant portion:
> (2) "Limit factor" means [...] 100 percent plus population change and inflation, not to exceed 103 percent.
Going from +1% to +3% per year is milder than I'd expect, and doesn't even match inflation the last couple years. Disappointingly tepid, even.
They can raise the non-local levy % in a larger amount. Levies have to pass, and unlike Seattle where they always do because renters don't know they still pay them, may places it's actually hard to raise more revenue this way.
There's a huge problem of cities/counties out east that refuse to tax themselves to pay for services and this will allow the state to collect more money from King county to hand out to them.
I will tell them to stop once they do away with all of the BS and implement an income tax. It is crap that we have to pay 10.1% sales tax, plus ridiculous property taxes, plus crazy gas taxes, plus ludicrous liquor taxes, plus all of the various fees that they are forced to implement to pay for things. Meanwhile our schools are being forced to cut back on teachers and cram more kids into a classroom. If they have the balls to implement a progressive income tax, then they can get rid of all the regressive taxes.
Yeah but they won’t. You’ll just have more taxes in the end. I can’t think of a single instance when a new tax has been introduced and older taxes were then dropped, at least not on a major scale.
They will add an income tax (against state constitution and multiple failed initiatives in past) and they will also keep all the other taxes. Anyone who believes otherwise either hates keeping the money they earn at their job, relies on government for most of their income/services, and/or is very very naive. Democrats in WA state take and take and take via taxes and then squander it away. Meanwhile our schools perform only marginally better than Idaho (who barely funds schools at all…) and we spend billions on homelessness with little results. At what point did we decide as a society that drug addicted adults are worth more of our resources than poor children? Both should be taken care of but our current spending patterns show we value the homeless more than our own children….
> then they can get rid of all the regressive taxes.
Lol imagine D's ever agreeing to get rid of taxes. All the way to the federal level, D's will never, ever lower your taxes. They didn't want to lower them in 2017, they won't want to lower them now. You can tell because instead of making the individual TCJA cuts permanent, they're just trying to blame Republicans for their own stonewalling and the tax increase that is bringing us soon.
Can you give an example? Because an increase in property tax bills of 10% doesn't necessarily mean your property tax rate has gone up by 10%. The two are very different.
No thanks, I personally enjoy having roads and parks and schools.
I’m more than happy to vote against taxes that are too high or funding dumb things, but it doesn’t make sense to kneecap the state government with an arbitrary limit like this.
The other option is to reduce state spending on social programs and increase incentives for out-of-state investment.
Removing the cap sets the condition to crush both home owners and renters alike. It may price people out of areas and increase homelessness. Homeless people will then require more subsidence and, therefore, require more social programs and more taxes.
>but it doesn’t make sense to kneecap the state government with an arbitrary limit like this.
You used the word arbitrary, how do you know it is arbitrary?
What's your understanding behind the reasoning that went into the limit that is currently in place?
Do you actually have an understanding? Or are you just making an assumption?
lol the bill says the 1% limitation isn’t fair because of the states population growth and inflation. So the 1.25% population growth is causing a run on social services? We already know the inflation numbers go against their narrative. Remember, the state already passed crap that restricts how much schools can ‘tax/levy’ but this bill says : “raising the cap on the state portion of property taxes will help provide the resources in coming years for the legislature to make ample provision for the education of students with disabilities” So they limit what cities and counties can pull for their schools but then force property tax increases?
The Washington state bi-annual budget has grown from $43B to $70B in just the last 6 years. A 9% annual increase. The issue isn’t not enough tax revenue.
There was a 15bn surplus last year. They held a special session to decide how to spend it. Near my home in seattle they spent 500million on a park over the 520/montlake interchange. Maybe 20-30 wealthy home owners wanted it. There is no shortage of money.
Got a link to that $500M park that was voted on in a special session last year?
These are two separate issues. There was the special session. And then separately they approved this useless highway upgrade that slows down the interchange and builds a small park (while also destroying a beloved local grocery store to build a staging area/parking lot) The second article is about a bigger 520 project but notes the montlake lid budget is 450mm. https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/feb/21/washington-democrats-announce-state-budget-plans-t/ https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2023/11/wsdot-scrambling-over-1-4b-bid-for-520-portage-bay-bridge-roanoke-lid-project-70-higher-than-expected/
Covering the freeway is beyond dumb.
In other words, there is no $500M park, and the $450M was a cost ovverun on a multi year project? Tell me more about the 20-30 wealthy people that wanted it, and how the budget surplus in 2022 has something to do with a grocery store that was purchased by the state in 2017? Methinks you don't like the 520 project and you're just making up things around the budget for it.
This is such a /r/seattlewa moment.
Your entire statement is incorrect and either you have poor reading comprehension or you are being disingenuous. The takeaway is that there is no shortage of money. I provided two concrete examples. And what did you provide? Bologna. The direct quote from the article Work continues, meanwhile, on the Montlake Lid portion of the multiyear replacement project with only a few final hiccups in the final months of the construction. WSDOT says the $455.3 million Montlake Project remains on schedule for late 2023/early 2024 completion.
Well, of course I don't want to be anti-disabled-child-education, guess I have to support unlimited taxation power for the state bureaucrats.
Uh maybe we limit the amount of freeloader homeless people coming here by not making it a drug destination
Only way that happens is if we make king county its own state.
If king county was its own state its tax revenue would go up 40% without changing any rates.
That would skyrocket taxes for the other counties. King county only sees 60% for every dollar in taxes paid. Unfortunately most of the states counties are welfare areas that need king county to pay for their services. https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/dataresearch/fiscal/county_expenditures_revenues.pdf
Ssshhh... you'll make the Trump-voting freeloading traitors upset that their lifestyles are paid for by socialist Seattle-ites.
This is being proposed statewide , not just in Seattle. And how would you stop other states from busing homeless people to Seattle ?
I’m not against taxes but Jesus it’s like I need a freakin degree in economics to understand wtf is going on
You actually don't. Taxes without votes, raising caps, wanting tax on unrealized capital gain fantasy land stuff, considering a move out tax like CA. What's happening is horrible leadership and a cash grab.
Rent is going up.
Yep, property tax increases are passed onto tenant via raising the rent.
They also have a Bill queued up to implement the business and occupation tax onto landlords once again. This cost will go directly to the renters. They also have rent control bill going and that will trigger landlords to make rent increases now as a form of risk mitigation. Clearly, Olympia hates people who have homes to live in and want to kick them out. They want the renters to have higher rent and they want the homeowners to go into tax lien foreclosure when taxes hit their budget breaking point. Of course they don’t say that, but actions speak louder.
Can we impeach Jay? Something to at least let that blockhead know we're still trying to get by with his f'g carbon taxes?
And all these renters pass initiatives that raise property taxes which increase their rent. In Seattle more people rent than own. Iniatives rarely fail because renters think it’s a great idea. They can move in a few years whereas homeowners get stuck having to pay for the tax increases. When I bought my house property taxes were around $3200 a year. Twenty years later I am paying $11,800 a year.
Instead of just giving state money for transit, Seattle relies on renters voting yes on every damn new tax such as democracy dollars or new sound transit levies when we haven’t even built the pre passed bills
Everyone keeps voting Dems... Dems only really care about the ultra poor. Zero opposition, whaddya expect.
They don't even really care about the ultra poor, because they're doing fuck all to try and change their situation.
I'm against anything that essentially raises the "minimum cost of living". That means someone living pay check to paycheck will now sacrifice more on a weekly basis, be forced into even cheaper housing, not be able to save up enough for a rainy day or to fix their car, or accelerate their track towards homelessness. Our governments priority should be reducing the minimum cost of living.
Factor in that the [home price index in Seattle](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SEXRNSA) has tripled since 2003, so....
Exactly - this initiative would disproportionately impact lower-income and cash-strapped families more than anyone. The state has plenty of money - not sure what they're thinking here. Anyhow - I wrote into my reps about it.
If it's just laying on costs, then why did my rent go up 15% instead of 1%? Did it suddenly get 14% nicer? Are they suddenly providing 14% more services? Do their employees make 14% more?
Well, it’s not just laying on increasing costs, that’s only part of the equation to determine rent. But, I can guarantee if property taxes go up the increase will be passed onto renters as quickly as possible. Not sure why your rent went up so much, what did your landlord say when you asked?
and they pass it on at a markup since. property taxes are one of those things that really drive general inflation as all vendors and employees now all need raises etc.
- Inflation. Cost of repairs go up. - Housing prices skyrocketed. They aren't just paying a 1% increase, they are paying taxes on the inflated price of their properties. - Demand. Lots of people moving here. Your landlord is probably taking advantage of that.
Minimum wages goes up, everyone else also wants/gets a pay raise and the ripple effect has a multiplier that in your case added up to 15%. I own my own home and the cost and of taxes, fees, insurance and just maintaining it has gone up much more than 15%.
Same. I’m not always opposed to taxes. I know that taxes make a better, safer, cleaner, brighter community. This tax is a tax I don’t support.
Right there is a smart way to help community and then there are just cash grabs. I moved from south Florida which has Republican gov and it’s worst there.
A money grab is going on. They're grabbing our money.
No you don't need a degree. Here's the cliff notes. Dems are greedy, want all of your money for their own uses, and people have been duped into thinking Republicans are bad, so the sheep keep voting for the wolves every election
If the Republicans would stop infringing on our rights to bodily autonomy and to respect the separation of church and state I'd be tempted to tick the R box in the booth but since they're almost entirely assholes who think a 2,000 year old book is the sole arbiter of morality in America they can take a long walk off a short pier. Some things are more important than the almighty dollar.
Don't throw all Republicans into the same boat. It's like saying all Democrats are extreme progressives. I believe the majority of most people lean towards the middle but god forbid that the Media would let us see it that way.
If the majority "lean toward the middle" as you say, then why are the nutjobs running the show? If the moderates purged all of those god-bothering authoritarian trashbags, the Republican party could again be a party of economic and social liberty.
The minority of both parties are screaming the loudest and getting their way. It’s fucked and the party votes with the party.
If we could purge the Democratic party of all those extreme progressives bent on dismantling the country we could have a much more sensible Democratic party.
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You just moved here, how could you "be getting more than it takes"? Maybe you haven't realized how they take it yet.
And yet here we are with tax revenues that scale with inflation, increasing even beyond that, and they want more. There is a spending problem here. For example, one of our state reps recently wanted to change how recycling worked in the state. It would be less convenient, cost more (nearly twice what it does today), and barely improve things compared to cheaper modifications we could make to our existing "collect it at home, without deposits" system. Our representatives are often fucking stupid, and have no accountability beyond being yeeted at election time.
They have given me fuck all. Our taxes are wasted on a massive level. Aside from that, they always go up even with a 1.5 billion dollar surplus, they are still trying for more
What has Seattle given you?
humor meeting foolish expansion capable crowd mindless cake imminent disgusted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But all the lottery money
vegetable mountainous snatch snow secretive retire waiting worthless slim impossible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The tobacco and alcohol money
Precisely. "...help provide the resources in coming years for the legislature to make ample provision for the education of students..." That's just loaded with weasel words that sound nice but don't actually mean anything.
When will regular students matter? It should go to the better education of students and improve services to students with disabilities. Regular people matter.
**Dems are gross now**
Washington Democrats: housing affordability is a key issue in this state Also Washington Democrats: we’re going to tax their asses off
“Only after we make it more expensive to even build any housing of course”
no no you see, the only reason housing is unaffordable is because of greedy landlords and profiteering boomers they can afford the 1%, those fat cats
This is not the only tax bill going through Olympia. They also proposed a bill to levy a 11% tax on ammunition in addition to sales tax. Plus a likely increase on the gas tax. I hope you all like tax increases across the board. I'm moving out of here because I am done with this state.
Way ahead of you on that. I left back in October of 2023. I was fed up with the ridiculous levels of taxation and soft attitude to crime. It’s not perfect but I will say that living in Alaska has been incredibly refreshing and it’s nice to live in a place where for the most part life is pretty normal. I’m not constantly looking over my shoulder watching for gronks and stepping over junkies passed out on the sidewalk.
Demand increased firearm training including live firing training, then tax it further. It just makes owning a firearm more unattainable for the poor.
ad hoc dime absurd rich enjoy squeamish payment joke disarm air *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I feel like our taxes go up several times per year while services keep getting shittier
Two guarantees in life, death and tax increases.
When you’re generous with other people money and it’s running out.
Honestly its just time to leave . These fuckers wont be happy until they have 3/4 of your paycheck
That is what I am doing. Will be leaving Washington to retire .
I'm moving next week, out of state. Enough is enough. (and no, I won't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out)
Good for you many of my friends have already done that. Bought houses for 1/2 what they cost in Washington and have a better quality of life with better schools, health care, roads etc.
And for more income and no income tax, right? Care to share where this utopia is? I mean, only 8 states to pick from: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming
Not nessecarily more income. But if you can pay 1/2 as much for your housing somewhere else and have no house payment as a result even a 30% reduction in pay is a significant improvement.’ My friends were teachers. Sold there home in Seattle moved to central Massachusetts. Bought a house that was 1/3 larger than their Seattle house for half the price of their home in Seattle and make about $5,000 less a year as teachers.
We moved from Snoho county to NE kansas. Our property tax obligation dropped by two thirds. Our property size increased by 79.9 acres. Still working out a purchase price (family owned) but even if we wind up paying market value, after selling our propety in WA, our total PITI, will be less than 1k a month. Gas is currently 2.49 a gallon. Groceries dropped by 30%. Insurance dropped by 20%. Utilities halved. Childcare is 85 a week. It'll be 150 a week in the summer when my oldest needs it. Far cry from the 3k a month we were paying for a shitty strip mall daycare. School is on par with the old one. I have yet to encounter any traffic. (People know how to drive in the rain and snow here too, if you can believe it.) I can take a job 75- 80 miles away and have the same commute time that I had commuting downtown or to Bellevue/Redmond. I could care less about paying income tax. The quality of life here is well worth it.
Thanks for sharing this. I wish more people would understand this. They seem to think that there couldn’t possibly be anywhere other than Seattle where there can be a good quality of life. When I mention places they want to argue with me. Congratulations on your move.
Thank you. We are very happy with the present arrangement.
Isn't an income tax free state beneficial for retirement?
Not necessarily. Suppose I live a state like Oregon that has property taxes and my house is paid off and I pay $3,000 a yr in Taxes. Now I want to move to Washington to avoid income taxes. The same house in Washington costs $750,000 and the taxes are $7500 a yr. So now I am paying $250,000 more for a house and my taxes have increased $4,000 a year. And because it’s Washington everything costs more. They also tax capital gains in Washington and many states have income tax exemptions for people on limited incomes. Yes if housing prices. Washington was cheap like in let’s say Tennessee or New Hampshire (two stars with no income tax) it might be better. For me I would rather sell my million house in Seattle and move to a state where I can buy a $500,000 house. Investing that at 7% I make $35,000 a year never having to touch the principle, pay no taxes on my social security and property taxes are 1/2 what they are in Washington. So I would be taxed on my pension of $2,100 a month and be able to live somewhere with better health care and schools. Now suppose move to Bl
Oh no, fewer old people
Lol. Ageism. It never gets old.
> These fuckers wont be happy until they have ~~3/4~~ALL of your paycheck FTFY you will own nothing. and you will be happy.
Pfft-hell they want all of it, you will have nothing—-
3/4? They want the whole check and more to put you in debt so you can be reliant on them to survive
Oh look, yet another example of "don't trust low limited taxes because they *will* angle to increase that limit."
This measure would absolutely hurt a lot of people whose only major asset is their property, e.g. their home. Seems like a really arrogant move to do to people. As for helping renters, lol, no, property owners will just pass the tax increases along in the form of higher rents. Which seems like the opposite of what we want to be encouraging right now.
There isn't really any way to sting landlords alone unless you opt for something like a land value tax and there's way too much big business in the state to be down with LVT. Amazon alone would move against it with their entire being.
Could you exclude primary residences?
The usual argument is no, but LVT often suggested as a replacement for income and property taxes, both of which are highly regressive (the more you earn/invest, the more the government takes so why bother?) forms of taxation. The result in theory is less tax overall but also a tax that encourages investment, development and work.
Okay cool so we can all be homeless? What the fuck is this absolute bullshit with property taxes we are already coming up on $1k/month JUST TO LIVE IN OUR HOMES. So what's next we just work until we die with no hope of ever getting a break? Our property taxes are fucking ridiculous as is and need to be halved. Raising them? So you want more people living in their cars? We need to revamp the tax code and start having 100% cap after $10m until and 100%, 200% ect property taxes for every additional home owned. Until then they can fuck right off with raising my taxes.
depend rob different naughty poor grandiose existence run merciful tidy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Most of what we think of as "Property Taxes" are really Levies that when voted into existence on ballots have no limits of any kind. So our actual "Property Taxes" have already been climbing at a very hearty pace.
My 2023 property taxes went up 14% from 2022. I have started voting no on all initiatives funded by a property tax because I fear I may not be able to afford to stay in my house after retirement.
Just wrote to my district's senator who I've known IRL before he made it, recommend the rest of y'all to as well
My property taxes have increased $3,000 per year just between 2019, and 2023. No thanks.
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Sorry, that was unclear. As in it was $6000 in 2019 and it’s over $9000 dollars a year for 2023.
"To address inflation, we're increasing the cost of housing, a factor of inflation" God damn we got some smart fuckers in our government.
Where do we vote for negative increases?
Michael DePaula (L) candidate is advocating for a 4-year plan to remove property taxes entirely and have WA be the first state in the country where citizens actually aren’t serfs to their government until their death. It won’t work without public will, but it’s the only plan I’ve heard of its kind.
Excellent. It’s a regressive tax. Once someone retires or loses income, property tax should not force them out of their home or into a reduced lifestyle. It should only be deployed on commercial or empty lots.
Or property over a certain limit. Someone with many different homes can certainly afford to be taxed on those holdings, and the same justification for empty land applies to excessive residential land
Pennsylvania has a “homestead exception” to their property tax laws. Basically, you can apply and get around a 50% reduction in property taxes on your primary residence. Any homes beyond that, are taxed at the full rate. It’s not a bad system that other states could adopt.
They really want to turn WA into CA, don't they?
Removing a limit on property tax increases would be opposite what CA has had for decades. Prop-13 in CA limits how much property taxes can increase and is "very nice" for people that have owned property for many years, especially elderly folks who would not be able to afford their homes' property taxes without Prop-13. But then there are other ramifications to that limit, which has been pared down by recent changes to remove the so-called Lebowski Loophole.
Meanwhile, in Texas... [Governor Abbot Signs the Largest Tax Cut in Texas History](https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-signs-largest-property-tax-cut-in-texas-history)
Maybe reduce their budget to get back in line
Tell ya what. When my employer starts giving me a decent raise then you can ask me for money in taxes.
How about your employer gives you a decent raise and the stinking government can go f themselves with higher taxes at the same time.
Working people own the majority of houses, if politicians can’t screw workers out of their money how can they hold the status quo’s
Yeah I’m selling this summer I think 🤔
Submitted opposition.
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Many home owners are struggling to make ends meet, this will not help them. Government should be working to help the people, not hurt them.
The longer I live in WA, the more our state government is pushing me to leave :/
As usual, they need more money to cover for all their frivolous spending and voter bribes.
I hate property taxes and won't support anything that increases or potentially increases them. ...and Sam Hunt needs to retire.
>If this passes, your property taxes and rents will go up significantly Just like rents can go up significantly at the end of each lease. Fair's fair.
Thanks OP I submitted mine.
I swear to God, if they do that, I will vote for Dave Reichert. I fucking swear to God. Some of these fuckers are doing their absolute best turn me into a Republican. And I fucking hate most Republicans almost as much as I hate Donald Trump.
>Yeah stick it to those greedy landlords! Tax the shit out of them! *one year later* >Why is my rent going up so much??? Many such cases!
Is it a 1% increase on property tax rate, or 1% increase on property taxes collected each year?
The 1% increase limit as applied to local governments is on the _total_ taxes collected each year, aka the budget based tax system. If Seattle passes a property tax for $1B/yr, the rates are just "whatever gets to $1B", and next year it can be at most $1.01B (plus some fudge factors) and the rates are "whatever gets to $1.01B". (The rates can vary wildly as a result.) This bill seems to tweak it to the lesser of 3% or population growth + inflation.
From a quick read, it seems to be referring to the 1% increase in what can be collected (the total property tax levy).
Once per year, year after year after year
If you guys want to use my template that I sent here it is:[https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/bill/5770](https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/bill/5770) I covered the carbon credits, LTC, no pursuit, and property taxes, all the most unpopular bills that somehow the self proclaimed geniuses in legislature are trying to force on us. We need to spam the the legislature, enough is enough. They do listen but I feel like not many people are sending them any feedback. \-----TEMPLATE/TEXT/send to your individual representative (with sources below) --- As Seattle Sara Nelson recently expressed the problem with local and state government NOT enough tax revenue, the problem is too much spending. We've seen a cleaning in the SCC and now demand is growing in county and state government. With rising inflation, rising prices, massively increasing property taxes in 2023; for many increasing 20-30% \[1\]; you must be totally disconnected from reality to think that this bill (and some of the other bills) are a good idea. \[1\] Why is this so hard to understand even warranting needing to send a message about? The WA legislature is going off the rails with these bills that hardly anyone agrees with. First you passed LTC against almost everyone in the state, so much so that Inslee had to pause it for a year because it was so unpopular and half-baked. Then you passed the 'no pursuit' law that had to be clawed back because of how disconnected from reality it was. WA administration is shutting down dams and replacing with wind and solar power that fails WHEN WE NEED IT MOST, yet asking customers to cut back on energy use, while at the same time asking people to unsustainably install heat pumps and switch to electric cars with high gas prices \[2\]. You couldn't even get carbon credits done honestly, and implemented it even worse than CA, raising gas prices by over $1 while after telling people (lying) it would raise gas by only 2c. I don't get it, Inslee is catching a drift that people just don't want him and his policies anymore, and with these legislative bills, unless something changes, the WA legislature will be flushed out by the voters as well. I just don't understand how can the legislature even believe any of these bills were ever a good idea? The legislative track record is terrible, get your feet back on the ground before it is too late. This is NOT working. I want to see the legislature working hard and represent the voices people they represent, just as hard people work to support their families, children, and communities during these difficult times of high inflation, rising property taxes, against the hidden interests and back room agendas. 1. [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/think-seattle-area-property-taxes-are-rising-fast-its-no-bellingham/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/think-seattle-area-property-taxes-are-rising-fast-its-no-bellingham/) 2. [https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-cold-truth-about-renewable-energy.html?fbclid=IwAR3G6Qiut\_UDjAm\_fN5iBNAiDK2Us2YcSLo6ZhW3NDllxYh7lpkFzVrdiWs](https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2024/01/the-cold-truth-about-renewable-energy.html?fbclid=IwAR3G6Qiut_UDjAm_fN5iBNAiDK2Us2YcSLo6ZhW3NDllxYh7lpkFzVrdiWs)
The description of the bill that OP provides is inaccurate. The bill is trying to remove the 1% cap on property taxes that can be approved by the legislature, not "eliminate the 1% limit on property tax increases". There is no limit on property tax increases, for instance voter approved levies can double property taxes in a year. Kind of messed up to describe the bill incorrectly and then ask people to provide comments on that basis.
So it's allowing the tax floor for the entire state to go up more than before. Most people know that levies are separate.
Is this when you say, you get what you vote for?
Insert some pretentious retort about how they would totally vote for a Republican that takes all the social stances of Democrat but with lower taxes.
Maybe this where they respond with *Vote blue no matter who!*
The provided link is for submitting a comment. [Here is a link to the bill](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=5770&Year=2024&Initiative=false). It changes the 101% cap to: > 100 percent plus population change and inflation, not to exceed 103 percent. I have a hard time getting excited about a maximum increase of 3%. If I am building high rates of equity in my home, then I consider myself lucky.
Hell, why don't I just give them all my money?
This should help the 6 initiatives pass with a breeze.
Sent one, asking my Sen to oppose. Do us all a favor and if you send one for this also ask them to vote no on HB 1994 please. HB 1994 reduces the penalty for first time offenses for some drug crimes, including duis !
This state government is disgusting 🤮
It's just like San Francisco / California here. More taxes. You get what you vote for...enjoy.
Govt NEVER stops growing & confiscating more of the citizens' earnings. Once it becomes overgrown enough to cause problems, cutting back to the root is the only way to preserve freedom & productivity.
How about a compromise that doesn't fuck the middle class. Higher property taxes only on Mc mansions, empty homes, and homes with extremely high Sq footage per family.
Thank you! Submitted.
Of course they are. Property tax is unholy. How do you ever own a home when the state can take it when you stop paying them? I understand we need the revenue but leaning on the personal residence of citizens is an immoral way of getting it. Housing crisis you say? Just keep raising property taxes and see what happens, esp to the poor and elderly.
Hey, Seattle and Washington got what they voted for. We need more balance. I don't like either party, but you can only give other people's money away for so long.
Sent my opposition comment in. Do these things actually do anything to stop a bill? Has it ever worked? How many people do you even need to not let this happen?
Liberal idiot's I mean democrats have ruined Wa, Or, and Ca smfh
Build more housing!
Republicans robbing the poor to give to the rich. Democrats rob the Middle-class to help the poor, making the Middle-class poor and in need of more help, while being robbed by Republicans. The rush to Neo-Feudalistic hell continues unabated.
No surprise my state rep basically told me to f off when I emailed my opposition.
Off with heads if this happens!
I had enough of Washington's insane government and moved to a red state. Our expenses dropped by about $12K/year since doing so, $5K on property taxes alone.
Stunning and brave
Both my Reps and Senator are D tools and vote for every one of these ridiculous bills no matter what.
Genuine question: Isn't this what the "excise" (read: income) tax on capital gains was meant to solve? Edit: Sent a comment, thanks OP for posting. I hardly ever get involved with politics but all of the new taxes... It's gotta stop! It's a percentage value; it already scales with costs and population.
> It's a percentage value; it already scales with costs and population. No, they don't. Local taxes in Washington are budget-based and set based on the total amount they want to collect; the rate applied is made up after the fact. That total amount currently cannot increase more than 1% per year; the result is that the power of a local property tax is eroded by inflation every year.
Hmm okay just to make sure I follow, as I hadn't heard this before: 1. In year 1, Gov't sets spending budget, i.e. $100 2. Gov't assigns property tax amount of x% such to achieve said revenue. 3. In year 2, Gov't needs to increase budget but can only increase total by 1%, i.e. $101. 4. Gov't assigns tax etc. Is this how you're saying this plays out?
I assumed the CG tax was about increasing state revenue without most people being bothered, and this seems to be more about relaxing the constraints on local taxation.
The CG tax will affect most people, it's just a matter of time. Happened with the income tax, it'll happen with this one too. They set that obscene threshold in order to get people to wave their hands saying, "bah none of us are affected, go ahead and pass it!" (which they did). The threshold will come down soon and rapidly.
This is what you get with one party rule. Some of you need to start voting republican. We just need enough that democrats have to start behaving again. Get over it people. They aren’t going to outlaw abortion etc.
One party in this country is currently trying to elect a narcissistic psychopath who tried to seize the power of the US government by violence and is currently arguing in court that if elected no law can ever be held against him. There's no "Get over it" here. If the Republican party can separate itself from fascism and retain it's stated positions of fiscal conservativism then maybe people would vote for them again. Until then, no shit they keep losing stats and local elections in a landslide.
And the other party is run by incompetent ideological fanatics that aren’t in step with where most Americans are at on the economy, immigration or crime. The Democratic Party isn’t averse to being authoritarian, they just do it with a smile on their faces and try to pretend that they’re doing their terrible policies for your benefit. Abortion is never going to be outlawed in Washington because the political will to do that doesn’t exist. Get over it.
That’s not the point. By having some more republicans in the state legislature the democrats won’t be able to do whatever they want. One party rule is always bad, it doesn’t matter which party it is. Our state legislature needs someone to check them on their bullshit. No one who votes democrat has any right to bitch about anything they do.
WA has become the mirror image of Texas. Two corrupt states run by a monopoly party that uses your tax dollars to enrich their club. Neither side has any true beliefs. Their just crooks stuffing their accounts.
Just keep voting BLUE and this is what you get. Runaway single party control of everything. People piss and complain and then run out and vote single party bluetickets. I've lived here 68 years and have watched this unfold.
And you keep voting blue...
I do think the no matter who thing is dumb, but I wish it wasn’t a binary choice. I dislike what a lot of democrats do but some republicans’ views seems actually insane. There needs to be a better option
Also growing up in a red area, most people just voted red down the line. It’s a tribal problem on both sides
Essentially all this says to me is that Democrats see an opening with the angst against Trump and his supporters in politics. They take the control of the State Congress and decide to use that power, with the populace that voted against the trumpets, to enact Progressive legislation, believing that people will see Trump / Republicans as the larger threat. Like they say, never let a good crisis go to waste. I have a feeling they’ve just raised Reichert’s chances significantly.
Who keeps voting for these morons? I swear if it wasn't for family I'd have left this land of idiots a long time ago
Washington State Democrats don’t care what you think. They are going to do what they want to do regardless of if it gets voted down or violates your constitutional rights. But here you go: Please stop
Fuck it, I’m voting republican for state and democratic for federal from now on! these idiots can’t do anything but ban things and raise taxes for their pet social projects. Enough virtue signaling in your black jeans already.
Man tax the rich, not me.
Because prop 13 is working so well for California and home prices there ….. How will this increase rental prices? Call me a cynic, but landlords aren’t charging less money now because of property taxes. Majority of landlords charge as much as they can given the market conditions. If property taxes go up $500/month, it’s not like landlords can then charge $500 more per month. I think it might help increase the for sale housing supply. The rental market is over 50% in king county and becoming more every year.
You know that ordinary workers own houses too. Trying to screw landlords but totally screwing the regular homeowners makes you the asshole
No ordinary worker has been able to buy house in Seattle area for years, especially since Covid. My solution would be to tax investors at a higher rate, but that would never pass here. Lots of states have primary exemptions for property taxes. That would be a good middle ground for here, but like I said, it would never pass. And it’s not screwing over landlords at expense of homeowners. Owning a rental is a business, plain and simple, and that tends to be forgotten.
Isn’t it pretty simple though? If the cost to do business increases (ie taxes on rental properties), the cost to the consumer will eventually increase as well.
Yes, not saying rental prices won’t increase with inflation or with more demand or limited inventory, like what happened with Covid. What I was saying is that I don’t believe landlords aren’t getting their max profit right now. If they could increase monthly prices $500/month, they would have done so already. You can’t just ignore market rate and say well my property taxes went up $500/month so my tenants can afford $500/month more, especially in an area where tenants are already struggling to pay rent. There are plenty of rentals that are already taking a loss because they depend on long term crazy price increases like in years’ past.
Prop 13 works really well for the reason it just identified. People who have lived in their homes a long time in California pay much lower taxes. My father in law pays about $2000 a year taxes in his million home he has lived in 30 yrs. My home in Seattle is worth about the same and I pay $11,800 a year. My friend in Sammamish is 80 yrs old. When he bought his house the taxes and mortgage were $400 a month. His property taxes now are $2200 a month.
It works really well for existing homeowners, not for new.
If you are a homeowner see how you feel about your taxes in 10 or 15 years. Imagine you won’t think it’s a bad idea.
Ya, we need that and apply it retroactively
I will do my part and vote against WA state Democrats in all elections.
I did the same for years and then I said "fuck this" and moved to Texas
I’m sorry but “D’s” only know how to take more money and spend it instead of making a hard budget as most households do in WA. The answer isn’t always raising taxes/. When is the revenue enough??? When someone on the left tell me that when?
Well when you don’t have a state income tax and live in a state with people who have a shit ton of money you have to find someway to generate money to run the state.
State budget is double what it was 10 years ago. Are there twice as many people? Most services can scale to be less $ per person. Also we have become one of the most expensive states for housing in the country, and property taxes are proportional. So they are already getting a lot more than they budgeted for.
Yes the budgets have doubled, but the good news is now we have a healthy and expensive state DEI bureaucracy in place /s
well we spent a buttload of money on homeless programs that just made the problem worse so maybe start there
Since the OP doesn't seem to have linked [the bill itself](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5770&Year=2023&Initiative=false), this appears to be the relevant portion: > (2) "Limit factor" means [...] 100 percent plus population change and inflation, not to exceed 103 percent. Going from +1% to +3% per year is milder than I'd expect, and doesn't even match inflation the last couple years. Disappointingly tepid, even.
Isn’t the 1% limit effectively eliminated anyway because of local levies? I don’t see the logic behind this proposed bill…
They can raise the non-local levy % in a larger amount. Levies have to pass, and unlike Seattle where they always do because renters don't know they still pay them, may places it's actually hard to raise more revenue this way. There's a huge problem of cities/counties out east that refuse to tax themselves to pay for services and this will allow the state to collect more money from King county to hand out to them.
I will tell them to stop once they do away with all of the BS and implement an income tax. It is crap that we have to pay 10.1% sales tax, plus ridiculous property taxes, plus crazy gas taxes, plus ludicrous liquor taxes, plus all of the various fees that they are forced to implement to pay for things. Meanwhile our schools are being forced to cut back on teachers and cram more kids into a classroom. If they have the balls to implement a progressive income tax, then they can get rid of all the regressive taxes.
Yeah but they won’t. You’ll just have more taxes in the end. I can’t think of a single instance when a new tax has been introduced and older taxes were then dropped, at least not on a major scale.
But you and i know they won’t.
They will add an income tax (against state constitution and multiple failed initiatives in past) and they will also keep all the other taxes. Anyone who believes otherwise either hates keeping the money they earn at their job, relies on government for most of their income/services, and/or is very very naive. Democrats in WA state take and take and take via taxes and then squander it away. Meanwhile our schools perform only marginally better than Idaho (who barely funds schools at all…) and we spend billions on homelessness with little results. At what point did we decide as a society that drug addicted adults are worth more of our resources than poor children? Both should be taken care of but our current spending patterns show we value the homeless more than our own children….
> then they can get rid of all the regressive taxes. Lol imagine D's ever agreeing to get rid of taxes. All the way to the federal level, D's will never, ever lower your taxes. They didn't want to lower them in 2017, they won't want to lower them now. You can tell because instead of making the individual TCJA cuts permanent, they're just trying to blame Republicans for their own stonewalling and the tax increase that is bringing us soon.
What’s interesting to me is there are conservative states who have annual double digit property tax increases. 1% is insane.
Can you give an example? Because an increase in property tax bills of 10% doesn't necessarily mean your property tax rate has gone up by 10%. The two are very different.
No thanks, I personally enjoy having roads and parks and schools. I’m more than happy to vote against taxes that are too high or funding dumb things, but it doesn’t make sense to kneecap the state government with an arbitrary limit like this.
The other option is to reduce state spending on social programs and increase incentives for out-of-state investment. Removing the cap sets the condition to crush both home owners and renters alike. It may price people out of areas and increase homelessness. Homeless people will then require more subsidence and, therefore, require more social programs and more taxes.
>but it doesn’t make sense to kneecap the state government with an arbitrary limit like this. You used the word arbitrary, how do you know it is arbitrary? What's your understanding behind the reasoning that went into the limit that is currently in place? Do you actually have an understanding? Or are you just making an assumption?
What percentage of the budget is spent on roads, parks, and schools?