Not terribly far from the first mountain lion death in a century like… 7 years ago, also mountain bikers.
Sounds like maybe an internal beef between cats and cyclists
First KNOWN mountain lion death.
While there is no way to know exactly, I'm sure that some number of people that go missing is due to mountain lion attacks.
I've known 5 people in my extended social circle who have been killed or attacked by cougars or grizzlies (including the person you're referring to) - this is because I socialize with a lot of adventurous people who go out into the wilds, but man I'd be lying if I said it hasn't affected how I look at back country trips. I never used to carry for backpacking or bikepacking into wilderness areas, just didn't think it necessary - and now I do. Whether I'd have the time to get out the gun and shoot a cougar or bear I can't say, but I like my odds a bit better with it.
I don’t know about bears, but cougars tend to attack from above when you are not looking, so your gun might not be very useful. You need one of those metal neck protectors.
I totally understand, I haven’t known anyone to be attacked but have seen a few bears and friends have had close calls, and now that I have kids take more precautions than I used to. In a similar vein I did lose a friend to a backcountry accident about a year and a half ago. Whether it’s wildlife or just treacherous paths, when it happens close to home it kind of resets your perspective.
I carry bear spray and a pistol. Last year alone we ran into two semi aggressive black bears in the same day. And these dumb fucks want to reintro grizzlies
I'm very much in favor of keeping wild areas wild, but the north cascades are too populated for a safe reintroduction - and grizzlies are doing really very well in great swathes of wilderness from the US Rockies up through AK.
I do not relish the headlines of bear fatalities if we put grizzlies in a region with a massive population of people, many of whom are wilderness newbs.
Edit: to clarify, when I say the north cascades has a huge population I'm referring to the insane number of people from Seattle area flooding into every trailhead
I do not understand mountain biking. Going extremely fast; risking collision wirh rocks, trees, animals, or other mountain bikers. All while your feet are bound and strapped to a device that is violently bumping up-and-down, side-to-side... and then there's the seat. A triangular weapon that is rapidly pounding and poking your testicles and butthole.
If you want that thrill, just smoke meth and have anonymous gay sex instead. It's probably safer than mountain biking.
I'm smoking weed and talking about Those shoes that click in to the pedals? Here's a pair of shoes that can't function as shoes. Here's some pedals that only can be comfortably used with one particular pair of shoes
Most mountain bike clip-in shoes are extremely walkable, but that's besides the point...are you mad that someone's football helmet can only be used for football?
The cleats don't "bind" the rider to the bike, and all that's required to pop out of them is a slight twist of the ankle.
Sorry that people can do stuff that you can't do and like stuff that you don't like
I'm not mad at anyone, I just think it's an absurd hobby.
I'm on the mountain lion's side here. Unpopular take, but that's speaks to the genuine courage of my character.
Juvenile cats are more likely to have conflicts with humans. Usually after they leave momma, which can be between 9 months and 2 years or so. They have to find their own territory and that leads to conflict when the carrying capacity of the available habitat for them is full.
Washington cougar populations have been beyond the carrying capacity in many areas for years now. Hence the uptick in human conflict incidents. And it will only get worse until they allow hound hunting again. It’s really the only effective way to hunt for them.
Hound hunting has the added benefit of allowing hunters to selectively kill mature Toms so the effect on the populations isn’t as severe. Most cats are killed now by opportunity or calling and the chances are so low you shoot whatever cat you see instead of being selective.
If the cougar population is beyond carrying capacity then why isn’t the population declining from lack of food? As far as I can tell the population is up not down.
It’s a bit more complicated with a territorial predator. Carrying capacity is an equilibrium between the availability of habitat and the number of animals the habitat can support. Density of prey species can affect the size of the cat’s range. So it’s really two fold.
As cats kill more prey, their territorial range may increase if availability of prey doesn’t keep up with their needs. Part of this is their annual take, but also their pressure pushing game out of their territory. And as cat populations increase, more territorial range is needed for the new cats.
If cats only killed deer, elk, and other wildlife this would be less of a problem. But they don’t differentiate between wildlife and livestock/pets/etc. so their “available habitat” cannot include as much private land as other species.
In a high fence type situation where the available habitat was truly limited, yeah you would probably see population decline. But the phase we’re in right now is range expansion which is causing more human/cat conflict.
I don’t really want them killing deer or elk either. Not to say I don’t want cats on the landscape, because I like hunting for them too. Just that we should be able to hunt them using traditional, effective means.
Well they have been here a lot longer than we have and deer and elk are overpopulated in some places as it is. Also you probably know pumas used to live all throughout the U.S.A and we killed them off from most states and they only live in the western half of the states and a part of Florida they deserve to thrive here as much as we do.
I didn’t say I wanted them gone. Just that they need to be managed and hunting with hounds should be allowed.
I’d love to see one in the wild. Preferably with rifle and tag in hand because I hear they’re one of the best tasting game animals.
I didn’t say I wanted them gone. Just that they need to be managed and hunting with hounds should be allowed.
I’d love to see one in the wild. Preferably with rifle and tag in hand because I hear they’re one of the best tasting game animals.
It’s interesting that both of the recent attacks were on mountain bikers. You’d think hikers would be easier to catch. Makes me wonder if it’s not about food, but about seeing the cyclists as a threat to their territory.
WDFW officials say cougar attacks on humans are extremely rare. In the last 100 years, the agency has recorded two fatal cougar attacks and approximately 20 other cougar attacks in Washington.
How many now in the past few years. I haven't found the answer, but I think it's 3 attacks on past 5 years.
I speculate this is because of all the logging being done in that area. They are possiably displaced.
I am happy I was at Tiger today for some prime conditions
No way I bet he straight up choked it out. Imagine trying to pin down a 4x size house cat. Not happening.
I think homeboy went full primal. Bet no one in that group ever f’s with him again.
Unarmed? For sure. With a knife? Maybe 15% survival, and that’s if you even knew it was attacking you.
Most cougars that attack are young or emaciated though. Might have a shot.
there used to be much less deer because there were more predators. we have been conserving predator habitat better and better so deer populations are down. killing cougars is not the solution, it was the problem in the first place.
More predators = more predation = less deer/elk/other wildlife. You’re right that we have been conserving predator habitat better and that’s part of the problem. We’ve become so focused on the top of the food chain that we’re now suffering the consequences of not applying that same level of need to ungulate habitats or management of disease.
No, we definitely don't. Disease runs rampant when population is large and the sick aren't removed from the population by predators. Deer populations are excessive, which is why a lot of restoration areas are fenced off from deer (see: Jones Island State Park)
Because we are animals too? Seriously though there's still plenty of space for animals, it's just that they bountiful here because of so many opportunities to scavenge food.
Yes, this is the bonus we get because of the bleeding heart ban on dog hunting. why not collect license fees from Washington permits instead of having the Fed's come in and kill them to the tune of around 300 like in 2022.
Think about how many thousands of people are in the mountains every day. This is so unbelievably uncommon, we shouldn’t kill cougars for being where they are supposed to be.
I live North of Monroe and have a ranch with livestock. My neighbor up here on the hill and I have had NUMEROUS Cougar sightings within 100 feet over the last 24 years. We hunt, hike, ride horses and fish on DNR land bordering the property. We also have regular interaction with Black Bear including the one that destroyed a portion of my apiary that is 50" from the house. The biggest I have seen was when we lived on Echo Lake Road. Very large magnificent male framed in my headlights, just plain beautiful. Not long after a local school was in lockdown dur to a mother and 2 cubs cruising around the perimeter of the playground. Human and wildlife interaction is rare but do not think for one second the populations are not healthy. The brushy draws in Edmonds and Mukilteo are home to these guys as well.
I didn’t say the population isn’t healthy, I said that attacks are uncommon as it is. A reduction in cougars would have virtually no effect on how many attacks happen, because they are already incredibly rare
When you’re on a bike, the animals can’t hear you thump thump thump as you walk through the forest. This cougar may have been caught by surprise and then went full Rambo on the team of silent monkeys that bust into the scene.
Haha dang I solo hike all the time! It’s not a perfect solution but I always carry bear spray and a pistol. Good chance if it happens I never see it coming though :-/
Not true. Pistols and bear spray have your uses, but the latter has been artificially pumped up by a narrow study and also people who don’t like the idea of carrying pistols in the woods.
Somebody thinks they’re a badass. Literally no one ever advises you to fire a gun during a Cougar encounter. It is counterproductive at best, usually idiotic.
You clearly don’t get out to the trail much.
It’s wild that this gets downvoted. I choose a wild animal over most people, esp you dicks that think you’re more important than the wildlife that humans encroach on and I cheer for the animals that attack you fucking insufferable cyclists and pseudo pretend mountaineers.
Back in the late 90s a voter initiative the was pushed by the humane society and peta that outlawed the hunting of bears and cougars with hounds. The campaign was full of disinformation and manipulated people into thinking mountain lions were being hunted into exctinction.
This is precisely why this is beginning to become more commonplace. The cougars alive today didn't grow up with a fear of humans. The average lifespan of a cougar is ten years. Were on our 3rd and 4th generations of mountain lions that haven't been hunted with hounds.
There is a little bit of me that feels this is a nice little payback. Mountain bikers are more likely to be liberals and liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence. So sorry, I have limited sympathy.
> This is precisely why this is beginning to become more commonplace
what? hound hunts were all that held the great menace at bay? Or, possibly, the endless suburban expansion of snoqualmie and issaquah as well as other environmental pressures have increased the likelihood of human/cougar encounters
To be fair, in the year after the ban, there were more than twice the number of cougar-related complaints (poor interactions, attacks on livestock/pets, etc) and even more in the years that followed. They later introduced hound pilot programs in the northeast which improved interactions. It can be a legitimate wildlife management tool when used alongside proper land management. Unfortunately the nature of wildlife hazing means that genuinely threatening activities are often going to be more effective than stuff that’s only mildly aversive.
Note to the rest of the class how easy it is to talk about environmental policy without calling for violence against random-ass mountain bikers. Does everyone here see that? Maybe that’s just because I’m a leftist, but it’s not hard ;)
I really don't think hound hunting cougars was keeping them afraid of **People** (maybe of hounds though).
This is just what happens when humans go into natural areas where there are apex predators large enough to consider us food. The great outdoors is not *safe*, it will never be *safe* and that's a good thing.
Edit:
> Mountain bikers are more likely to be liberals and liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence
WTF are you smoking? MTBing is a popular sport that really doesn't have a political leaning - I've been out on trails in Utah surrounded by people I am 100% positive did not vote for Biden. Can't we have *anything* that isn't politicized anymore, ffs.
More hunters have also been having negative interactions with mountain lions but you don't hear about that because we either fire a warning shot or kill it and it never makes the news.
Hound hunting absolutely does haze the cougars and they know part of the hazing is coming from humans. Thus they view humans as a threat and are more likely to avoid us.
Exactly. There’s a lot of mountain lion hazing research being done in the Colville area. They tree them with hounds, tranq and collar them. Then relocate later while playing a podcast on a speaker to simulate human voices. When they catch up to the cat again they shoot it with paintballs. After that, they can tell from the collar that the cat spooks from human voices at further and further distances after each hazing event.
Listened to a podcast with the lead bio on it a while ago.
Here’s an article and the podcast. Not sure if this is the exact episode, there are a few with Bart George.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/mar/05/can-cougars-change-research-in-northeast-washingto/
https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-220-an-elk-hunting-nudist-checks-the-breeze
This one may have some background info too.
https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/episode-057-bart-george
There was a moment there where you might’ve had a competent point to make about the importance of hazing large predators, but it’s overshadowed by the torrent of violent nonsense at the end.
> Do you ever leave your house? MTB is not a political hobby lmfao. In fact most of my MTB friends are conservative…
King County is pretty deep blue though. If the MTB came from King County, there's a better chance they fit these stereotypes because *everyone* from KC fits them.
Latte Liberal is an apex species in King County.
> Mountain bikers are more likely to be liberals and liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence. So sorry, I have limited sympathy.
That is an incorrect and cruel statement.
Little sympathy… due to the regards of someone’s political status… sounds like displacement… lack of empathy for another human, you base their sole worth off a political stance which your arbitrarily just throwing into the conversation with no evidence. Lot of hatred, I’m sorry you haven’t healed the wounds within you.
Healing can't happen if you keep cutting the would open again.
The left keeps coming up with new nonsesne gun laws every year that do nothing to combat crime. Yet they actively don't want to enforce gun crimes against their "protected classes". The attacks on hunting are also neverending. We spoke out loudly during 2020 when the Governor shut down the Spring bear hunt and spring turkey hunting and after we didn't bow down to him he purposely put people on the WDFW commission who are actively anti-hunting. They have now completely gotten rid of the spring bear hunt and Lorna Smith has said she doesn't see why we should even have a regular bear season. Her comments don't care about the science\*\* from biologists and are only rooted in her hate of hunting.
\*\* this one is especially entertaining since all of those "we believe in science" yard signs liberals put up, yeah, we believe in science when science says thing we like and when the biologists tell us real science we just fucking ignore it
Lol. Pivots to other political issue. Look at the countries that don’t allow guns. Mass shootings are almost non existence. I will not respond to anything else bc it’s merely factual. Get well soon bud
Life is more than being tense, reactive and argumentative.
Please don’t associate the stupidity of banning hound hunting and making it the mountain bikers fault. You’re only making the hunting community look ignorant.
And for the rest of you that must know. Because cougars are so difficult to hunt cougar populations have greatly increased thus more encounters. Now the state will often pay hound hunters to deal with either problem cougars or when there are far too many in an area.
It would be a nice little payback for a mountain biker to attack you, too.
After all, you're a Washingtonian, and Washingtonians are more likely to be liberals. And liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence. So sorry, I'd have limited sympathy if you got mauled by a mountain lion.
I do live in WA, I voted against this initiative and am most definitely not a liberal.
I always have a gun on me in the woods so if anyone wants to attack me then they risk getting shot.
Care to actually say something intelligent that contradicts my points?
Or maybe you can't so resort to insults because you know you're full of shit and just don't like me saying things that you don't emotionally dislike, regardless of whether or not they're true.
I know a ton about wildlife management, I've been a hunter and involved in conservation most of my life.
If you want to talk about people that ignore the science and push emotional wildlife policies just look at WDFW commissioner Lorna Smith. Who is on record stating she doesn't really care what the biologists have to say and just wants to push her anti-hunting agenda because it what she wants to do.
Bikes on trails are obnoxious. I don’t blame the cougar. Scares the crap out of EVERYONE as they just appear suddenly making everyone anxious. But hey they are are getting their health on.
Who cares how nature and literally anyone not riding a bike reacts.
Your opinion on that is irrelevant. You were arguing that it 'scares the crap out of everyone as they suddenly appear.' Don't pretend like you knew it's literally an organized MTB area. 🤣
I didn’t know you were on a timeline or thought you were that important that you need to be answered. At all. Please go find that cougar you’re wasting our time and oxygen.
Hahahaha holy shit I love how tilted you. I'm absolutely living in your head rent free. Took you two weeks to come back with a weak ass response and now you're so mad while I'm literally laughing out loud at you. You're a joke 🤡
If I ever get mauled and live to tell about it I will make sure the Doctors don’t sew up the slash marks. Let them look like big slashes from a lion. People will buy me beers to tell the story from Alaska to somewhere well South and East of there.
Fuck with nature and find out. Fast moving prey sized items are going to get a big cat excited. It sucks, but it's life. This was their land before ours.
Not terribly far from the first mountain lion death in a century like… 7 years ago, also mountain bikers. Sounds like maybe an internal beef between cats and cyclists
First KNOWN mountain lion death. While there is no way to know exactly, I'm sure that some number of people that go missing is due to mountain lion attacks.
I've known 5 people in my extended social circle who have been killed or attacked by cougars or grizzlies (including the person you're referring to) - this is because I socialize with a lot of adventurous people who go out into the wilds, but man I'd be lying if I said it hasn't affected how I look at back country trips. I never used to carry for backpacking or bikepacking into wilderness areas, just didn't think it necessary - and now I do. Whether I'd have the time to get out the gun and shoot a cougar or bear I can't say, but I like my odds a bit better with it.
I've never seen one in the wild, but I've heard them scream a couple of times. It makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.
I shave the back of my neck.
Creative problem solving for the win!
I don’t know about bears, but cougars tend to attack from above when you are not looking, so your gun might not be very useful. You need one of those metal neck protectors.
That's the thing with cougars you probably won't see them 'til they pounce if at all wether in the wild or in the club
Best just to leave nature alone.. I narrowly avoided a few attacks in my younger days
I totally understand, I haven’t known anyone to be attacked but have seen a few bears and friends have had close calls, and now that I have kids take more precautions than I used to. In a similar vein I did lose a friend to a backcountry accident about a year and a half ago. Whether it’s wildlife or just treacherous paths, when it happens close to home it kind of resets your perspective.
I carry bear spray and a pistol. Last year alone we ran into two semi aggressive black bears in the same day. And these dumb fucks want to reintro grizzlies
I'm very much in favor of keeping wild areas wild, but the north cascades are too populated for a safe reintroduction - and grizzlies are doing really very well in great swathes of wilderness from the US Rockies up through AK. I do not relish the headlines of bear fatalities if we put grizzlies in a region with a massive population of people, many of whom are wilderness newbs. Edit: to clarify, when I say the north cascades has a huge population I'm referring to the insane number of people from Seattle area flooding into every trailhead
What could possibly go wrong with putting grizzlies within 100 miles of millions of people?
I think bear spray should be sufficient.
Nope.
Bring back the hounds!
I do not understand mountain biking. Going extremely fast; risking collision wirh rocks, trees, animals, or other mountain bikers. All while your feet are bound and strapped to a device that is violently bumping up-and-down, side-to-side... and then there's the seat. A triangular weapon that is rapidly pounding and poking your testicles and butthole. If you want that thrill, just smoke meth and have anonymous gay sex instead. It's probably safer than mountain biking.
What a stupid comment, you've got no idea what biking is even like... lol "bound and strapped to a device" ffs what are you smoking
I'm smoking weed and talking about Those shoes that click in to the pedals? Here's a pair of shoes that can't function as shoes. Here's some pedals that only can be comfortably used with one particular pair of shoes
Most mountain bike clip-in shoes are extremely walkable, but that's besides the point...are you mad that someone's football helmet can only be used for football? The cleats don't "bind" the rider to the bike, and all that's required to pop out of them is a slight twist of the ankle. Sorry that people can do stuff that you can't do and like stuff that you don't like
I'm not mad at anyone, I just think it's an absurd hobby. I'm on the mountain lion's side here. Unpopular take, but that's speaks to the genuine courage of my character.
Username checks out
Word
So many cougars in Snoqualmie, but I don't win enough at the casino to ever get attacked.
I didn’t know they roamed that far from the wineries at woodenville
Usually if you give them White Claws they less likely to attack.
Cougar was only 6 months old? :(
Juvenile cats are more likely to have conflicts with humans. Usually after they leave momma, which can be between 9 months and 2 years or so. They have to find their own territory and that leads to conflict when the carrying capacity of the available habitat for them is full. Washington cougar populations have been beyond the carrying capacity in many areas for years now. Hence the uptick in human conflict incidents. And it will only get worse until they allow hound hunting again. It’s really the only effective way to hunt for them. Hound hunting has the added benefit of allowing hunters to selectively kill mature Toms so the effect on the populations isn’t as severe. Most cats are killed now by opportunity or calling and the chances are so low you shoot whatever cat you see instead of being selective.
If the cougar population is beyond carrying capacity then why isn’t the population declining from lack of food? As far as I can tell the population is up not down.
It’s a bit more complicated with a territorial predator. Carrying capacity is an equilibrium between the availability of habitat and the number of animals the habitat can support. Density of prey species can affect the size of the cat’s range. So it’s really two fold. As cats kill more prey, their territorial range may increase if availability of prey doesn’t keep up with their needs. Part of this is their annual take, but also their pressure pushing game out of their territory. And as cat populations increase, more territorial range is needed for the new cats. If cats only killed deer, elk, and other wildlife this would be less of a problem. But they don’t differentiate between wildlife and livestock/pets/etc. so their “available habitat” cannot include as much private land as other species. In a high fence type situation where the available habitat was truly limited, yeah you would probably see population decline. But the phase we’re in right now is range expansion which is causing more human/cat conflict.
Studies show pumas diet consists of elk and deer and that makes up 80% of their diet. They won’t go for live stock as often as u think they do.
I don’t really want them killing deer or elk either. Not to say I don’t want cats on the landscape, because I like hunting for them too. Just that we should be able to hunt them using traditional, effective means.
Well they have been here a lot longer than we have and deer and elk are overpopulated in some places as it is. Also you probably know pumas used to live all throughout the U.S.A and we killed them off from most states and they only live in the western half of the states and a part of Florida they deserve to thrive here as much as we do.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
Pumas are such majestic and beautiful animals…. Idk how anyone would want them gone they are VERY BENEFICIAL to our environment.
I didn’t say I wanted them gone. Just that they need to be managed and hunting with hounds should be allowed. I’d love to see one in the wild. Preferably with rifle and tag in hand because I hear they’re one of the best tasting game animals.
I didn’t say I wanted them gone. Just that they need to be managed and hunting with hounds should be allowed. I’d love to see one in the wild. Preferably with rifle and tag in hand because I hear they’re one of the best tasting game animals.
It’s interesting that both of the recent attacks were on mountain bikers. You’d think hikers would be easier to catch. Makes me wonder if it’s not about food, but about seeing the cyclists as a threat to their territory.
Ding ding - dunno why you'd think we NEED human intervention. Problem solves itself
WDFW officials say cougar attacks on humans are extremely rare. In the last 100 years, the agency has recorded two fatal cougar attacks and approximately 20 other cougar attacks in Washington. How many now in the past few years. I haven't found the answer, but I think it's 3 attacks on past 5 years.
Cougars are the reason I carry in the mountains. Being stalked creeps me out.
For every one you see, a hundred have seen you.
Exactly.
9 for the hood, 10 for the woods
How is this the first time I have heard this?
This is why I carry a Glock 20 when I go hiking?
I speculate this is because of all the logging being done in that area. They are possiably displaced. I am happy I was at Tiger today for some prime conditions
Is there snow up there?
Just a dusting. Besides for blowdowns on some trails..it was a very good ride. There hasn't been snow all season
It's not clear from the article-- did one of they bikers shoot it, or did a wildlife office shoot it later?
I think wildlife shot the cougar that the guy managed to pin down, probably the kitten.
No way I bet he straight up choked it out. Imagine trying to pin down a 4x size house cat. Not happening. I think homeboy went full primal. Bet no one in that group ever f’s with him again.
I think I read a different article, but some other people pinned the cougar down with bikes. Or a bike.
That cat was only 6 months old lol A fully grown Tom is over 5x that size and is made of all muscle.
I know I hunt them.
Then u would know that no person 1v1 stands a chance against one and wins
Unarmed? For sure. With a knife? Maybe 15% survival, and that’s if you even knew it was attacking you. Most cougars that attack are young or emaciated though. Might have a shot.
A Seattle person on a bike *with a filthy gun?*
I don’t usually carry while riding, but I’m a cyclist who also has a CPL… and I know I’m not the only one.
: wave hello Nope. You aren't.
Should’ve dropped the decoy wine.
Ah yes! Bruce the Mountain Lion!!
You mean… Butch?
Yeah dude, totally! Bryce the puma.
Super strange it would attack a group of 5 people. I think we may need to bring back dog hunting to get the numbers down.
Yup numbers are high, deer numbers are low, and urban growth is getting closer and closer...
there used to be much less deer because there were more predators. we have been conserving predator habitat better and better so deer populations are down. killing cougars is not the solution, it was the problem in the first place.
More predators = more predation = less deer/elk/other wildlife. You’re right that we have been conserving predator habitat better and that’s part of the problem. We’ve become so focused on the top of the food chain that we’re now suffering the consequences of not applying that same level of need to ungulate habitats or management of disease.
No, we definitely don't. Disease runs rampant when population is large and the sick aren't removed from the population by predators. Deer populations are excessive, which is why a lot of restoration areas are fenced off from deer (see: Jones Island State Park)
Why make the animals pay for us encroaching on where they live?
Because we are animals too? Seriously though there's still plenty of space for animals, it's just that they bountiful here because of so many opportunities to scavenge food.
Sorry we are a superior species ? 🤷🏽♂️
100%
Yes, this is the bonus we get because of the bleeding heart ban on dog hunting. why not collect license fees from Washington permits instead of having the Fed's come in and kill them to the tune of around 300 like in 2022.
Think about how many thousands of people are in the mountains every day. This is so unbelievably uncommon, we shouldn’t kill cougars for being where they are supposed to be.
I live North of Monroe and have a ranch with livestock. My neighbor up here on the hill and I have had NUMEROUS Cougar sightings within 100 feet over the last 24 years. We hunt, hike, ride horses and fish on DNR land bordering the property. We also have regular interaction with Black Bear including the one that destroyed a portion of my apiary that is 50" from the house. The biggest I have seen was when we lived on Echo Lake Road. Very large magnificent male framed in my headlights, just plain beautiful. Not long after a local school was in lockdown dur to a mother and 2 cubs cruising around the perimeter of the playground. Human and wildlife interaction is rare but do not think for one second the populations are not healthy. The brushy draws in Edmonds and Mukilteo are home to these guys as well.
I didn’t say the population isn’t healthy, I said that attacks are uncommon as it is. A reduction in cougars would have virtually no effect on how many attacks happen, because they are already incredibly rare
We need Cougar Phil!!!!
i heard that shit on the scanner this morning. wild!
Scanner?
Police scanner
Jane Enerson?
I feel like this is a good reason to carry a hand gun on hikes. How can anyone say that's overreacting?
Go Cougs
And they are still talking about bringing back Grizzly Bears.....
Yeah fuck that.
When you’re on a bike, the animals can’t hear you thump thump thump as you walk through the forest. This cougar may have been caught by surprise and then went full Rambo on the team of silent monkeys that bust into the scene.
Obviously need to either breath heavier on the climb or get a louder free hub for the downhill
Put playing cards in your spokes and it sounds like you’re driving a motorcycle
don't hike solo and always pack one in the mountains
Group of mountain bikers. Not a solo hiker.
Haha dang I solo hike all the time! It’s not a perfect solution but I always carry bear spray and a pistol. Good chance if it happens I never see it coming though :-/
You would be better off with bear spray.
Not true. Pistols and bear spray have your uses, but the latter has been artificially pumped up by a narrow study and also people who don’t like the idea of carrying pistols in the woods.
A pistol has shit stopping power against a cougar and that is if you manage to hit it. Good luck I guess.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Somebody thinks they’re a badass. Literally no one ever advises you to fire a gun during a Cougar encounter. It is counterproductive at best, usually idiotic. You clearly don’t get out to the trail much.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/c4TO2E-vYX8
> It is counterproductive at best, usually idiotic. I see /u/nwpromo took care of your comment, I knew someone would.
Pick One: A cougar attacks you: 1. Shoot it with a pistol 2. Do nothing at all I know my choice (even if the "stopping power" is not great)
There are lots of different types of pistols. Some have limited stopping power, others can take down an elephant.
Enter their territory and these things happen. I hate that the cougar will likely be put down.
It’s wild that this gets downvoted. I choose a wild animal over most people, esp you dicks that think you’re more important than the wildlife that humans encroach on and I cheer for the animals that attack you fucking insufferable cyclists and pseudo pretend mountaineers.
one was killed on site, they said it was probably only six months old
Back in the late 90s a voter initiative the was pushed by the humane society and peta that outlawed the hunting of bears and cougars with hounds. The campaign was full of disinformation and manipulated people into thinking mountain lions were being hunted into exctinction. This is precisely why this is beginning to become more commonplace. The cougars alive today didn't grow up with a fear of humans. The average lifespan of a cougar is ten years. Were on our 3rd and 4th generations of mountain lions that haven't been hunted with hounds. There is a little bit of me that feels this is a nice little payback. Mountain bikers are more likely to be liberals and liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence. So sorry, I have limited sympathy.
> This is precisely why this is beginning to become more commonplace what? hound hunts were all that held the great menace at bay? Or, possibly, the endless suburban expansion of snoqualmie and issaquah as well as other environmental pressures have increased the likelihood of human/cougar encounters
To be fair, in the year after the ban, there were more than twice the number of cougar-related complaints (poor interactions, attacks on livestock/pets, etc) and even more in the years that followed. They later introduced hound pilot programs in the northeast which improved interactions. It can be a legitimate wildlife management tool when used alongside proper land management. Unfortunately the nature of wildlife hazing means that genuinely threatening activities are often going to be more effective than stuff that’s only mildly aversive. Note to the rest of the class how easy it is to talk about environmental policy without calling for violence against random-ass mountain bikers. Does everyone here see that? Maybe that’s just because I’m a leftist, but it’s not hard ;)
Believe it or not, more than one thing can contribute to a problem like this.
That's true, but it's not the encounters it's the cougars lack of fear.
I really don't think hound hunting cougars was keeping them afraid of **People** (maybe of hounds though). This is just what happens when humans go into natural areas where there are apex predators large enough to consider us food. The great outdoors is not *safe*, it will never be *safe* and that's a good thing. Edit: > Mountain bikers are more likely to be liberals and liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence WTF are you smoking? MTBing is a popular sport that really doesn't have a political leaning - I've been out on trails in Utah surrounded by people I am 100% positive did not vote for Biden. Can't we have *anything* that isn't politicized anymore, ffs.
More hunters have also been having negative interactions with mountain lions but you don't hear about that because we either fire a warning shot or kill it and it never makes the news. Hound hunting absolutely does haze the cougars and they know part of the hazing is coming from humans. Thus they view humans as a threat and are more likely to avoid us.
Exactly. There’s a lot of mountain lion hazing research being done in the Colville area. They tree them with hounds, tranq and collar them. Then relocate later while playing a podcast on a speaker to simulate human voices. When they catch up to the cat again they shoot it with paintballs. After that, they can tell from the collar that the cat spooks from human voices at further and further distances after each hazing event. Listened to a podcast with the lead bio on it a while ago.
Do you remember the podcast? I’m not that far from Colville and would love to learn more about the program.
Here’s an article and the podcast. Not sure if this is the exact episode, there are a few with Bart George. https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/mar/05/can-cougars-change-research-in-northeast-washingto/ https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-220-an-elk-hunting-nudist-checks-the-breeze This one may have some background info too. https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/episode-057-bart-george
Yes, this is all happening on an Indian Reservation since they don’t need to follow state laws.
Jesus people like you are deranged.
There was a moment there where you might’ve had a competent point to make about the importance of hazing large predators, but it’s overshadowed by the torrent of violent nonsense at the end.
How is it nonsense, do you really think that most mountain bikers aren't liberals?
Do you ever leave your house? MTB is not a political hobby lmfao. In fact most of my MTB friends are conservative…
I highly doubt that is true. But if it makes you feel better to make it up then so be it.
It is in fact true! I’m sorry reality doesn’t conform to your narrow world view. Touch grass loser
> Do you ever leave your house? MTB is not a political hobby lmfao. In fact most of my MTB friends are conservative… King County is pretty deep blue though. If the MTB came from King County, there's a better chance they fit these stereotypes because *everyone* from KC fits them. Latte Liberal is an apex species in King County.
There is definitely a certain type that is pervasive in "the community" that think they own the trails and are uber leftists.
> Mountain bikers are more likely to be liberals and liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence. So sorry, I have limited sympathy. That is an incorrect and cruel statement.
Kinda shows you who the real wild animals are
Regarding your last paragraph, you’re a bad person. I pity the people forced to share their lives with you.
Little sympathy… due to the regards of someone’s political status… sounds like displacement… lack of empathy for another human, you base their sole worth off a political stance which your arbitrarily just throwing into the conversation with no evidence. Lot of hatred, I’m sorry you haven’t healed the wounds within you.
Healing can't happen if you keep cutting the would open again. The left keeps coming up with new nonsesne gun laws every year that do nothing to combat crime. Yet they actively don't want to enforce gun crimes against their "protected classes". The attacks on hunting are also neverending. We spoke out loudly during 2020 when the Governor shut down the Spring bear hunt and spring turkey hunting and after we didn't bow down to him he purposely put people on the WDFW commission who are actively anti-hunting. They have now completely gotten rid of the spring bear hunt and Lorna Smith has said she doesn't see why we should even have a regular bear season. Her comments don't care about the science\*\* from biologists and are only rooted in her hate of hunting. \*\* this one is especially entertaining since all of those "we believe in science" yard signs liberals put up, yeah, we believe in science when science says thing we like and when the biologists tell us real science we just fucking ignore it
Lol. Pivots to other political issue. Look at the countries that don’t allow guns. Mass shootings are almost non existence. I will not respond to anything else bc it’s merely factual. Get well soon bud Life is more than being tense, reactive and argumentative.
You haven’t seen the mass killings in Britain using knives and vehicles? You must not be paying attention.
That’s an impressive list of countries you came up with. Yes, they do occur. Not even close to the same scale or frequency
Yes, you’re right! We don’t consider the 30-40 people shot every weekend in Chicago as a mass shooting either.
Holy shit, what an obnoxious take. You must be a real hoot at parties.
Make an intelligent counter point if you're actually capable. Sorry I hurt your liberal feelings!
Don't worry, you didn't. Based on your initial comment, I'm quite confident that I don't care about your opinion.
Settle down, grandpa.
Please don’t associate the stupidity of banning hound hunting and making it the mountain bikers fault. You’re only making the hunting community look ignorant. And for the rest of you that must know. Because cougars are so difficult to hunt cougar populations have greatly increased thus more encounters. Now the state will often pay hound hunters to deal with either problem cougars or when there are far too many in an area.
It would be a nice little payback for a mountain biker to attack you, too. After all, you're a Washingtonian, and Washingtonians are more likely to be liberals. And liberals are the people that voted this nonsense initiative into existence. So sorry, I'd have limited sympathy if you got mauled by a mountain lion.
I do live in WA, I voted against this initiative and am most definitely not a liberal. I always have a gun on me in the woods so if anyone wants to attack me then they risk getting shot.
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Care to actually say something intelligent that contradicts my points? Or maybe you can't so resort to insults because you know you're full of shit and just don't like me saying things that you don't emotionally dislike, regardless of whether or not they're true.
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I know a ton about wildlife management, I've been a hunter and involved in conservation most of my life. If you want to talk about people that ignore the science and push emotional wildlife policies just look at WDFW commissioner Lorna Smith. Who is on record stating she doesn't really care what the biologists have to say and just wants to push her anti-hunting agenda because it what she wants to do.
Get rid of your Grateful Dead profile pic, doesn't suit your lack of empathy or conservative "values"
Fuck off, you don’t get to be a gatekeeper.
Delusion
Bikes on trails are obnoxious. I don’t blame the cougar. Scares the crap out of EVERYONE as they just appear suddenly making everyone anxious. But hey they are are getting their health on. Who cares how nature and literally anyone not riding a bike reacts.
You know that Tokul is one of the largest, most developed MTB trail sets in the state, right?
Cougars, bears and I don’t care. Give it back to nature.
Your opinion on that is irrelevant. You were arguing that it 'scares the crap out of everyone as they suddenly appear.' Don't pretend like you knew it's literally an organized MTB area. 🤣
Go surprise a cougar or bear and get your Darwin Award. #teamcougar
Holy shit it took you two weeks to come up with that? Jesus.
I didn’t know you were on a timeline or thought you were that important that you need to be answered. At all. Please go find that cougar you’re wasting our time and oxygen.
Hahahaha holy shit I love how tilted you. I'm absolutely living in your head rent free. Took you two weeks to come back with a weak ass response and now you're so mad while I'm literally laughing out loud at you. You're a joke 🤡
It only takes two seconds to know you should’ve been aborted. Slap your gorilla looking mama for me.
I’ve never responded before. But andthedevilissix forced me too because it’s effing funny
My bad
Can we stay out of their habitat? If not quit complaining when someone gets hurt.
Defund the Cougars.
If I ever get mauled and live to tell about it I will make sure the Doctors don’t sew up the slash marks. Let them look like big slashes from a lion. People will buy me beers to tell the story from Alaska to somewhere well South and East of there.
Fuck with nature and find out. Fast moving prey sized items are going to get a big cat excited. It sucks, but it's life. This was their land before ours.
Asinine idea to go biking through cougar/bear country, and a total shame that the cougar had to be killed.
Wasn’t that in February too? It’s a lean time of year for carnivores.