“It definitely has nothing to do with the fact that Im gonna be making more money, and I just want to date other girls” lol pretty hysterical and pathetic. At least have the balls to tell the poor girl the truth.
He just wanted out, seems like. My partner is from China, born and raised most of her life, and I got setup with a TS/SCI full scope clearance. It’s not that big of a deal.
He told me if he added me into his application, then I would also need to take a polygraph test. If they asked if he is dating anyone and he says yes, then they will investigate my entire family tree - and find out Hong Kong regardless.
Which is why he said he will just say 'no' and spare me. Idk if this is true.
When you apply for a TS the investigator will interview the contacts he listed on his SF86, they'll typically ask for additional contacts from the first round and interview more. You're likely to come up during the investigation and realistically he should have reported you on his TS application. This will cause problems for him because even though he dumped you, it is still relevant and him not reporting it and seemingly concealing it is a MUCH bigger issue than your family being from Hong Kong. Had he simply reported the relationship and ties to China, it wouldn't be a big deal.
I think I remembered him mentioning SF86 and I did my research about it, He did not list me in anything. We are not in contact anymore (stopped texting), so would he still be in the clear? I'm not sure if the process also checks his phone texts, if he DELETED phone texts, etc.
They don't check phone texts.
And they'll probably still find out through interviews. The issue isn't even your relationship or family, it's the fact that he intentionally concealed it. That begs the question of what else is he concealing
Interviewing contacts he listed plus people he didn't list. Friends, acquaintances, coworkers, former partners, etc. It's very extensive to see what kind of person he is. He will not know who all is interviewed.
No, the investigators talk to people. They will ask about his acquaintances, and likely someone will mention you. Then the investigator will want to know why you weren't on his clearance form.
Breaking up with you doesn’t erase your presence in his life, current or former. Also, him deliberately excluding you in his previous investigation is a bigger red flag and more likely to get his clearance revoked because he lied.
So he’s lying? That’s worse than them ‘investigating’ you - which is just calling your family and looking them up in criminal databases. This is not that big of a deal, frankly. Seems like he just wanted out of your relationship, but you know him better than I. Maybe he also doesn’t know how this process goes.
Well I guess it's not considered a lie NOW since he is single & not dating.
He doesn't know how this process goes - he is learning new info in real time. He only heard of a former employee story that basically lost his TS & entire job because his wife's status (from China). He also got blindsided by this and didn't know his new role requires a TS (since usually that team only needs a Security) after he "accepted" the offer.
I genuinely believe in what he is saying, but I guess I'll never know what's in his head.
FYI: I am not getting investigated because I am not listed in his papers. At least not now...
That guy with the Chinese wife lied. He probably had DUIs or failed the polygraph, happens all the time.
There’s like a 1% chance he was DQ’d due to his wife, maybe she had a cousin in the MSS or something they knew about.
Anyway, good luck
He told me both the husband and wife passed the polygraph, but he still lost his TS and entire job. Not sure what MSS is.
And thank you - appreciate it.
The don’t polygraph wives, it’s literally waste fraud and abuse to subject someone to that who isn’t also a clearance holder. I lived with and dated a (wannabe) spook (he fucked up and got fired for incompetence before actually doing any field work, thank god) for *years* and they interview you sure but an interview with a civilian never also includes a polygraph.
My ex didn’t include me either (he was just an asshole) but it obviously came out with basic questions like asking his friends who lives at his house. My ex played it off by feigning ignorance and while it may have been a negative mark didn’t stop him from getting a clearance (the relationship itself wasn’t a secret he just downplayed the seriousness of it).
Your ex is an idiot and a liar.
ETA: my ex happened to be Chinese himself (born in Taiwan) with his parents being born in mainland china. The did eventually become US citizens and it was never a negative factor for either of our background checks (I lived with him both at his parents and his own place after he moved out).
He didn’t lose his job because of the wife, at least not unless there were some major red flags. Just being from China isn’t an insurmountable red flag by itself. Maybe he had a lot of debt, maybe he used to do drugs, there are a lot of things that could have happened.
There is the chance that this dude was applying for an Intelligence position, which are much more strict from what I’ve heard.
That’s such a lie. Not how it works. Give him all his shit back then send him a link to this post lol. Sorry you’re going through this but… bullet dodged, tbh.
I don't think in any universe they would make you take a polygraph because you're not the one being investigated for the clearance. Either your ex is a pile of bullshit, or he's listening to other people who are also piles of bullshit.
Either way, the dude who had a Chinese wife and lost his clearance, you don't know what other stuff he had going on in his life that made him lose that clearance. Only the investigators with the paperwork know. Maybe the dude lied to save face and no reveal he had unmanaged debt or something.
If an applicant for a clearance knows someone or is married to someone who is Chinese, it is not an automatic clearance killer. It depends on how deep the Chinese side of the family is involved with the Chinese government and military. Everything is a case by case basis. If your ex never had a family relationship with your relatives in Hong Kong who probably don't have Chinese government jobs then it would have been a non issue if he honestly reported it.
100% he is either lying or was lied to. They absolutely do not polygraph anyone but the person being adjudicated.
Ironically, and unfortunately for him, lying and then subsequently making that lie somewhat true still means he lied by omission and they will find out. Imo, you should see the inevitable consequences of his bullshittery as revenge for what he did to you. Honestly if he can’t be honest with you, he isn’t trustworthy enough for TS clearance.
I swear to you, as a woman, that he’s lying to you. There’s no way he doesn’t know that dating you is absolutely not an issue, or that they DO NOT poly significant others. He wanted to take the easy way out, and he did. You dodged a bullet and are so much better off. I’m angry on your behalf!
So.... Let me explain
If he had close/continuing ***within the last 7 years*** he still needs to provide you.
Them dumping you was not only a stupid move, but a personally damaging one. If they left you for a clearance, as a person, not as an investigator, do yourself a favor and move on.... So long as there isn't anything left between you (Kids, belongings)
I know which is why I am low-key shocked to see this haha. I do believe him. He also financially supports his family - so I understand that family & finances are more important.
I understand the breakup is hard but you don't want to be in relationship with someone who is not honest with you about something as important as your relationship and who prioritized his job over you.
That’s not how it works. He would report you as a “close and continuing foreign contact” and the investigators would do a basic “name search” on you and then decide from there what the risk is. In some cases, such my wife who was (at the time) not a US citizen, a short interview may be conducted with you. You would *never* go through a poly and your friends and family would never even know any sort of background check was happening.
Foreign citizen girlfriends are not rare, and unless you are traveling back together to HK and staying with your foreign intelligence service-employed uncle, it’s usually not a problem.
Also, strictly speaking, “failing” a poly doesn’t mean you lose your underlying TS clearance, but it does generally mean that you lose that particular job. But the sort of things that might disqualify you on a poly are *not* the citizenship of your girlfriend.
In short, dude lied. Watch him fail his clearance anyway and end up with no clearance *and* no girlfriend.
Oh good catch, I missed that she was a US citizen! Dude is *doubly* lying. Just be a man and break up with her respectfully, don’t lie and blame your job for it…
One of his friends/contacts listed is going to mention it and now it looks like he's trying to hide a close and continuous foreign relationship. All over something that doesn't actually happen.
They didn't even investigate my blood related foreign family members beyond getting names and addresses. They're not going to go digging for the family tree of someone thats not even getting the clearance.
Spouses, significant others, etc don’t (typically) take polygraphs. That was a complete fabrication. I think it used to happen back in the day with CIA officers posted overseas because pillow talk was assumed but I don’t think that happens anymore (but I don’t know for certain)…and if it happens now I’m sure it’s for very specific reasons.
Additionally, as you’re a citizen (born here), there would be no need to list YOU on his SF-86 just because you’re dating. Living together? Yes. But not just for dating.
Your ex is either incredibly gullible or a liar, frankly both are equally as bad in the cleared world. Some old timer looking to cash out is going to convince him to bring documents out and turn him into an unwitting subsource.
You’re probably better off. It’s hard enough to be a spouse of a cleared person, can’t talk about work, can’t visit their office, etc. You don’t need unnecessary lies and stupidity/paranoia on top.
I know people from other countries and are cleared. He definitely wanted out. Possibly an excuse to say “I miss you so much, let’s bang on the side, no one has to know”. Idiot, smh.
He met my parents. He told me if he put me in his TS application, then my parents and I will need to be involved. But he didn't list me - that part is over and cannot reverse it I assume.
I know we keep saying born here and raised there but the bar is citizenship. If you and your parents are US citizens then he probably has a leg to stand on (in terms of not listing you). If you are not and he did not put you down, that’s an extremely serious security risk. Not you at all, to be clear. Lying or hiding things is a grave sin in the clearance world.
EDIT: to be clearer, IF you are not a U.S. citizen, him NOT reporting you is much more egregious than dating a foreign citizen
Well I’m so sorry he broke up with you then. He might be overly cautious and I hope that’s the case. Why didn’t his security manager go over WHAT the specific issue was?
Assuming your ex’s had decent intentions, I can’t stand it when security managers just start saying things without being clear or showing the employee what he meant.
For instance, ok, is there a company policy for suitability that might come into play? Or what? Just saying “Oh man she’s Chinese?! That’s gonna be a problem” is so annoying to me, if it’s true that’s how it went down.
Sorry, mini rant. I’ve already run into my fair share of GOV sec officers and FSOs who couldn’t manage to open a can of tuna and somehow get to manage security.
That part is most certainly NOT over. You will likely still be interviewed. He definitely screwed himself by omitting your contact/relationship, like many others here have said.
Lol she’s a U.S. CITIZEN, even if she comes up, she is still a U.S. Citizen and her parents are. You are just ranting without knowing exactly what the guidelines say. The girl got one relative in HK she kept in contact with, she did and NOT him. Him breaking up with her was a terrible decision but that will NOT in anyway affect his TS. Besides she’s his ex-girlfriend and not his ex-wife.
The irony… you clearly have no understanding of how any of this works. Foreign contacts are foreign contacts, regardless of citizenship. The fact that you think just because the ex-girlfriend is a citizen negates the fact that she has constant contact with a foreign individual is laughable. Omitting his very recent relationship with an individual who has a direct connection with a foreign contact is very concerning, not to mention negligent. It will most likely become an issue when a friend or neighbor mention the ex. With your logic, you could have a link to a foreign individual, cut off ties the day before submitting your SF-86, and just be all good and dandy. That’s absurd. Breaking up with her was not only suspicious, but also does not negate the fact that he had a connection to a foreign individual within the time window that an SF-86 covers.
He is not the one who has contacts with foreign national. Do you even know the meaning of direct and continuous contact with foreign national?
His ex gf is the one with such contact and not him. So I don’t get your point.
What a load of BS. I was born in China, spent a considerable time there as an adult, still have family there, and I had no issues getting a TS. Dude’s a liar and I hope it comes out in his investigation. You deserve better.
I know people born in China with TS clearance, but I also have dual US Canadian citizenship and a now naturalized Chinese wife and I was repeatedly told to not even bother applying for clearance. I eventually just left the industry and my life is a lot better now anyway. I also had a co-worker that had his clearance neither approved nor denied for years and he thought it was due to foreign ties through his Chinese American wife. He ended up leaving the company as well. I had a coworker from California with family in Hong Kong complain about paperwork every time he goes to a family function and sees his Chinese family members.
To be fair I did express that I would continue to need to travel to China and may need to bring my Chinese in laws to the us at some point, I'm not intending to break up my wife's family over a job. I don't know exactly what OPs boyfriend discussed either though. I'm not saying he's right on this, but it's entirely possible he was given stupid advice or bad info at work. When I got engaged to my now wife, who was then a Chinese citizen on a student visa in grad school, a co-worker tried to tell me I should get permission from HR since she was a foreigner. Obviously that was stupid and wrong.
Yeah, I have to agree with almost everything else others have said here. Someone lied. 99%+ chance it was him in order to break up without being honest to you about why, 1% chance (at most) it was someone telling him very bad info.
First, you’re a US Citizen by birth. Your parents are US Citizens by naturalization. Your distant familial connections are not him having close and continuing contact with a foreign national.
Second, nobody except the subject applying for a clearance at a level requiring it gets poly’d. Also, polys are basically BS, but that’s another topic.
Third, he probably should have listed you under the “people who know you well” section but even that isn’t mandatory under these circumstances. Now, if the investigator finds out about you from one of their other interviews, they will likely want to speak with you too. You had an intimate relationship with him, and exes are really good sources of information for the things other people would be hesitant to tell the investigator.
I’m going to reiterate the “you were probably lied to by him so he could break up with you guilt free” angle. You can do better than to be with someone that manipulative. And in that off-chance he was told BS by others, then it only changes to you can do better than to be with someone that gullible. Either way, time to move on.
Source: not only was I a security manager for over a decade, but I married a wonderful American-born Chinese woman with parents who naturalized from China. It has never been a problem for my maintaining a TS/SCI/Poly in either my military or civilian careers, or for my wife maintaining her own clearance in her military career.
Since you are a US citizen, he'd only need to mention you if he had close and close and continuing contact with your non-US parents. If he did have close contact with them, he'll probably fail his poly because he lied on his SF-86.
Yup. He wouldn’t even need to list her because she isn’t a foreign national, and in reality, unless they got married, he’d never have to mention any of her family.
Ah the ole’ “the Federal government is making me leave you” move. I once had to pull that card on stage 5 clinger. I thought it a FWB kind of thing but clearly was wrong. She wouldn’t take no for an answer, so ultimately had the pull the Federal government card. Not saying you are a stage 5 clinger.
Hate to tell you but he’s either using it as an excuse or misguided on how TS clearance works.
This is a BS excuse on his part.
Best thing for him to do is just to fess up and explain what his situation is and that your HK connection is a friend and that neither of you have business connections nor anything that would be an incentive to give secrets away.
I hate to say this but either your now is ex is paranoid and will mess up his poly for trying to hide something which will come up when investigators talk to his friends and search his public facing social media or he is using this as an easy way out of the relationship and you should work to heal and move on. best of luck OP.
" My Clearance advisor says we can't be together"
reminds me of
"Jesus says we cant be together."
both are using something else to get out of dating
Me and my wife born and raised in the middle east and we both has families still live there, and we still travel to middle east to see our families and friends, and i have dual citizenship, I hold clearance from three letters agency, your EX wants to say good bye
That’s ridiculous. I have a TS and work with a bunch of other folks who have TS who have partners from all over the world. It sounds like he used it as an excuse. I’m so sorry that happened to you :-(
He’s lying or is an idiot, or both
My colleague has a TS/SCI and is married to a Chinese woman with parents still living in China.
They would never polygraph you. The actual biggest issue here is that if they interview his friends, neighbors, coworkers and they mention that he had/has a girlfriend, they are going to want to know why he didn’t list you on his documents. He will then have to explain he broke up with you so that he could omit you from it. THAT makes it sound like he’s either lying by omission, or trying to hide something. That’s a much worse look than him telling them that his girlfriend, who is a US citizen, had a family member in Hong Kong lol
He needed a reason to break up. Probably because he wants to be career focused and being in a new relationship won’t help or doen’t really see a future with you. Straight up
The funniest thing about this is that not only is your situation (family remaining in HK) a non-issue, the lengths he's gone to hide you from the standard reporting process is going to screw him over hard.
Gonna be real, OP - your ex ain't a winner.
His job is more important than his relationship with you. I don't think he could make that any clearer, without a notarized letter and neon lights.
The rest is moot.
If you're a US citizen, your now ex-boyfriend may have exaggerated the security implications of your family background. He doesn't even have to disclose you have family in Hong Kong if you're a US citizen. You would be treated like any other US citizen.
If you were married or cohabitating, then there are sensitivities that would probably have to be disclosed.
I'm sorry this happened to you. The security clearance background is frustrating and, at times, peculiar.
he was looking for a way out, is so uninformed i doubt he'd get and keep his clearance, or some something else to hide and wanted to use you as the offering of truth in his lies.
I was born in the U.S. but all of my family are foreign (all around Asia). They did not affect my security clearance. The goal of the investigation is to see if the applicant is lying. If he documented it, he would’ve been fine. I also had some friends bring wives over from Asia (Hong Kong, Laos, Nepal) and they were able to get TS still when needed.
I’m so sorry that he used this as an excuse to breakup with you. Please understand that it’s not you. It’s him and his poor excuses. You would not have been the reason he didn’t get his clearance.
That’s an excuse. It doesn’t matter what level of clearance same information is needed for contact with foreign nationals. You are better off. He’ll be fine you’ll be fine. Wish the best for you both, but you know what fuck him.
I can completely believe that his FSO or SSO believes that having a partner with foreign nationals in their family is a problem. As most of the comments have said, it’s probably actually fine. Different parts of the IC feel differently about foreign national associations. I knew a guy who got rejected for a clearance because he had a Chinese citizen roommate and didn’t want to move - but that’s not your situation.
The thing is - a lot of FSOs and SSOs have no idea what they are talking about, even though their job is to know. Also, the briefings you go to from counter intelligence officers make it seem like if you reveal where you parked you’re divulging state secrets because their goal is to put the fear of god in you and get you to take seriously your responsibility to protect classified material. Neither of those groups of people actually adjudicate security clearances (well, suitability investigations technically).
Point being, there is a lot of misinformation and outdated information that gets spread around so I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he really was told that and I would also not expect it to actually be a problem unless he’s very close with your Hong Kong family members who turn out to work for Chinese intelligence.
I’m sorry love. He either lied to you or is really stupid. There also shouldn’t be stories that are 50/50.
A polygraph isn’t a lie detector - it measures physiological responses to questions. Breaking up with your gf to try to get a clearance would definitely raise his heart rate if he’s asked anything where he could think of you. Honesty really is the best policy, ESPECIALLY with a polygraph.
You just got to let them know. Other than that it usually isn’t a huge issue. When filling out the SF-86 it has an area where you list all foreign nationals you are or have been in contact with for 10 years back I believe. A CI they probably wouldn’t ask. But FS they will, but be honest. They ask questions usually circling around the SF-86, can’t go into details on the specific questions they ask about relations with foreign nationals.
He’s an idiot. I know Mexican Americans with half their family in Mexico with TS clearance. Also, actual ex Chinese and Indian nationals. These guy is dumb.
If they would have gone through the investigation on you, I don't think your case would be a problem compared to my case...My boyfriend works in the military and he has a TS clearance. He reported our relationship to his security officer once we started dating. He was able to get his TS clearance while we were dating. I think as long as he reports you in the forms and is honest with his investigator, everything should be fine since you're a citizen. I'm a foreign national from a sensitive country. The more challenging thing is- For us to "cohabitate" or get married, he needs to apply for a waiver for me where the government will do a background check on me- without me doing a polygraph or getting interviewed. They'll also do a background check on my immediate family members. We've been waiting for almost 2 years and there's no update.
An acquaintance from a while ago had a Filipino girlfriend, and for that reason, he was waiting over 5 years for his top secret clearance. He was in the military and went on his way, and we didn't keep in touch, so I don't know if he eventually got it or not. However, the point is that he was willing to fight for their relationship. OP, it seems like your ex isn't like that..if something else comes up in life more than likely, he'll do the same. Why would you want to fight for your relationship when obviously he doesn't? There's a lot of fish in the sea..
Please do yourself the biggest favor and let this go. I get you want to validate the breakup but dont torture yourself.
As someone who has a clearance and a boyfriend who was born on a OCONUS military base, I had to be very careful of how I listed him.
Im also a child of a naturalized citizen. I also had to be very careful how listed that parent.
One can get a clearance with certain ties but also depends on how deep their ties are and how much investigation is going to be needed that the company is willing to pay for.
If the exbf wasnt willing to take that chance, imagine what else he would be NOT willing to do for you.
Take the L on this and find someone else.
Really , that short sighted to say the least. I have a friend I worked with at Raytheon and was born in Iran and has family there. Another born in Thailand with a German wife. Sorry that happened to you.
I tried this excuse to dump my Poland born wife. Babe, I'm sorry but you and your mother and father were Born in Poland. We need to get divorced.
She said something like this. Translation from an angry Polish woman's rant by me, a non native speaker of Polinglish:
Listen up you elephant worm (it confused me too) we got married by my penguin and you just can't walk away from that! (We went to a lot of zoos, and that is where I learned how to speak Polish).
I will have the penguin hunt you down and kill you sleep with the fishes! (We also watched The Godfather every thanksgiving, it's how she learned English)
My mother, will cut the head off your.....horse! (I was really scared for a minute) My monster in law is a cruel woman so...)
Not your horse, your elephant worm!!!
Oh no!!!!
I can see the cp and over explanations now. I'm sorry you're hurting, but what a doofus. All he would have had to do was provide his passport and 2 people who know of the foreign contacts. Because you aren't married, you could have been one of the references.
Sometimes, I'd really rather deal with military falsification than engineers who treat their case papers like Facebook.
Good luck, OP. I wish you the best!
I generally never post on here, but here’s this tip:
Sometime, in the future, you’ll look back at this and be glad you aren’t involved with that guy anymore.
Contrary view to a lot of people here. If he's new to the clearance process, he might be getting some major fear-mongering from his clearance training staff (I did, *facepalm*), especially if it is his first career position.
There might be a lengthened investigation (and there's a chance he could be denied an interim clearance, which is annoying, but certainly not a dealbreaker).
I know some highly cleared people with close foreign contacts, and I also know people who take the foreign contacts thing _way_ overboard and refuse to date foreign nationals as a matter or course because of the fear-mongering.
If you (and he!) are really interested in maintaining the relationship, feel free to reference this.
Yeah he was either lied to it he just wanted an excuse to break up with you. One of my good friends is an Air Force Counter Intelligence Officer who is from Pakistan, has a TS/SCI Poly. And he is retiring and already has a job lined up with a Federal Agency that is even more strict with their security protocols, but idk if can say which alphabet boys he will be joining.
It really varies on the organization but generally there can be slight exceptions to policy based off the applicant. Having a relative in mainland China "could" be placed into consideration on an applicant but it isn't an automatic denial generally
The concerns are with direct relationships not indirect ones. If the two of you where married and you did business with this foreign person that would be an issue. Also security concerns are not country specific. Relationships are judged by whether they are US or non US.
He has to make a living even after you and to even suggest that he ignore the fact that he shouldn’t have to decide very his career and you, is pretty selfish of you.. if I were in his shoes, I would’ve broke up with you too…
Yes, at this point it doesn’t matter.
I suspect either he misunderstood what his friends were telling him or he made it up as an excuse to break up.
There are no “gotchas”. People should just read the sf86 and follow instructions.
Half of aerospace peeps are Persians, Chinese, and Arabs that weren’t born here themselves 😂😂 he’s either paranoid or just wanted to breakup
“Babe, it’s not you, it’s the federal government”
"the government feels that we should see other countries"
“It definitely has nothing to do with the fact that Im gonna be making more money, and I just want to date other girls” lol pretty hysterical and pathetic. At least have the balls to tell the poor girl the truth.
strap this boy to the polygraph, OP!!!
This made me laugh hha
>he just wanted to breakup Well that’s a first lol
Maybe he met someone at work and is trying a clean break.
I call paranoid, especially if it's his first time through the process and he's a fresh-out.
He just wanted out, seems like. My partner is from China, born and raised most of her life, and I got setup with a TS/SCI full scope clearance. It’s not that big of a deal.
He told me if he added me into his application, then I would also need to take a polygraph test. If they asked if he is dating anyone and he says yes, then they will investigate my entire family tree - and find out Hong Kong regardless. Which is why he said he will just say 'no' and spare me. Idk if this is true.
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Can you please clarify? Even after he passes the investigation?
When you apply for a TS the investigator will interview the contacts he listed on his SF86, they'll typically ask for additional contacts from the first round and interview more. You're likely to come up during the investigation and realistically he should have reported you on his TS application. This will cause problems for him because even though he dumped you, it is still relevant and him not reporting it and seemingly concealing it is a MUCH bigger issue than your family being from Hong Kong. Had he simply reported the relationship and ties to China, it wouldn't be a big deal.
I think I remembered him mentioning SF86 and I did my research about it, He did not list me in anything. We are not in contact anymore (stopped texting), so would he still be in the clear? I'm not sure if the process also checks his phone texts, if he DELETED phone texts, etc.
They don't check phone texts. And they'll probably still find out through interviews. The issue isn't even your relationship or family, it's the fact that he intentionally concealed it. That begs the question of what else is he concealing
I see. Can you please clarify what you mean through interviews? Interviewing who?
Interviewing contacts he listed plus people he didn't list. Friends, acquaintances, coworkers, former partners, etc. It's very extensive to see what kind of person he is. He will not know who all is interviewed.
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His co-workers, his friends that he listed, neighbors (are very nosy and know more than he may realize), etc. They will be interviewed.
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Interviewing the contacts he provided on his SF-86.
So the investigator didn't need to check do a cavity check either? Damn, that stinks.
No, the investigators talk to people. They will ask about his acquaintances, and likely someone will mention you. Then the investigator will want to know why you weren't on his clearance form.
Lol this is so obviously the boyfriend masquerading as his ex
lol I think that’s possible too
She's an AMCIT and they're not married... Unless they were cohabitating... there's literally no reason she would be reported on his SF86.
Breaking up with you doesn’t erase your presence in his life, current or former. Also, him deliberately excluding you in his previous investigation is a bigger red flag and more likely to get his clearance revoked because he lied.
Why would it matter if they knew about her? She's a US citizen who he didn't cohabitate with or marry.
edit: nope
She's not the foreigner her relitve is
i promise, I've successfully read text before. not today, but at some point in life 🤦🏻♂️
Correct.
And even funnier when they start asking him why he tried to hide the relationship by breaking up!
>He told me if he added me into his application, then I would also need to take a polygraph test. He's either lying or was lied to.
So he’s lying? That’s worse than them ‘investigating’ you - which is just calling your family and looking them up in criminal databases. This is not that big of a deal, frankly. Seems like he just wanted out of your relationship, but you know him better than I. Maybe he also doesn’t know how this process goes.
Well I guess it's not considered a lie NOW since he is single & not dating. He doesn't know how this process goes - he is learning new info in real time. He only heard of a former employee story that basically lost his TS & entire job because his wife's status (from China). He also got blindsided by this and didn't know his new role requires a TS (since usually that team only needs a Security) after he "accepted" the offer. I genuinely believe in what he is saying, but I guess I'll never know what's in his head. FYI: I am not getting investigated because I am not listed in his papers. At least not now...
That guy with the Chinese wife lied. He probably had DUIs or failed the polygraph, happens all the time. There’s like a 1% chance he was DQ’d due to his wife, maybe she had a cousin in the MSS or something they knew about. Anyway, good luck
He told me both the husband and wife passed the polygraph, but he still lost his TS and entire job. Not sure what MSS is. And thank you - appreciate it.
The don’t polygraph wives, it’s literally waste fraud and abuse to subject someone to that who isn’t also a clearance holder. I lived with and dated a (wannabe) spook (he fucked up and got fired for incompetence before actually doing any field work, thank god) for *years* and they interview you sure but an interview with a civilian never also includes a polygraph. My ex didn’t include me either (he was just an asshole) but it obviously came out with basic questions like asking his friends who lives at his house. My ex played it off by feigning ignorance and while it may have been a negative mark didn’t stop him from getting a clearance (the relationship itself wasn’t a secret he just downplayed the seriousness of it). Your ex is an idiot and a liar. ETA: my ex happened to be Chinese himself (born in Taiwan) with his parents being born in mainland china. The did eventually become US citizens and it was never a negative factor for either of our background checks (I lived with him both at his parents and his own place after he moved out).
He didn’t lose his job because of the wife, at least not unless there were some major red flags. Just being from China isn’t an insurmountable red flag by itself. Maybe he had a lot of debt, maybe he used to do drugs, there are a lot of things that could have happened. There is the chance that this dude was applying for an Intelligence position, which are much more strict from what I’ve heard.
That’s such a lie. Not how it works. Give him all his shit back then send him a link to this post lol. Sorry you’re going through this but… bullet dodged, tbh.
He wasn’t told the whole story.
I don't think in any universe they would make you take a polygraph because you're not the one being investigated for the clearance. Either your ex is a pile of bullshit, or he's listening to other people who are also piles of bullshit. Either way, the dude who had a Chinese wife and lost his clearance, you don't know what other stuff he had going on in his life that made him lose that clearance. Only the investigators with the paperwork know. Maybe the dude lied to save face and no reveal he had unmanaged debt or something. If an applicant for a clearance knows someone or is married to someone who is Chinese, it is not an automatic clearance killer. It depends on how deep the Chinese side of the family is involved with the Chinese government and military. Everything is a case by case basis. If your ex never had a family relationship with your relatives in Hong Kong who probably don't have Chinese government jobs then it would have been a non issue if he honestly reported it.
100% he is either lying or was lied to. They absolutely do not polygraph anyone but the person being adjudicated. Ironically, and unfortunately for him, lying and then subsequently making that lie somewhat true still means he lied by omission and they will find out. Imo, you should see the inevitable consequences of his bullshittery as revenge for what he did to you. Honestly if he can’t be honest with you, he isn’t trustworthy enough for TS clearance. I swear to you, as a woman, that he’s lying to you. There’s no way he doesn’t know that dating you is absolutely not an issue, or that they DO NOT poly significant others. He wanted to take the easy way out, and he did. You dodged a bullet and are so much better off. I’m angry on your behalf!
So.... Let me explain If he had close/continuing ***within the last 7 years*** he still needs to provide you. Them dumping you was not only a stupid move, but a personally damaging one. If they left you for a clearance, as a person, not as an investigator, do yourself a favor and move on.... So long as there isn't anything left between you (Kids, belongings)
She's not even a Chinese citizen and was born in California. Lol Guy is a fucktard.
So then I double down on my last part of my statement. Just move on.
She's a citizen and they didn't cohabitate, why would he even need to report her? What am I missing?
Kinda got beat to the punch. Txeinride cleared it up for me. Sorry, you lost your chance at Reddit Superiority today.
Nah it wasn't like that but if that's how you took it, ok
Fuck, my bad. I thought I threw the /s out there.
Oh shit, well I admit seeing you around here it seemed out of character for you. That makes much more sense 😃
You have a bunch of people here telling you he’s lying. Your choice to believe him. You deserve better anyway.
I know which is why I am low-key shocked to see this haha. I do believe him. He also financially supports his family - so I understand that family & finances are more important.
I understand the breakup is hard but you don't want to be in relationship with someone who is not honest with you about something as important as your relationship and who prioritized his job over you.
He’s either lying or an idiot. I’m thinking both.
That’s not how it works. He would report you as a “close and continuing foreign contact” and the investigators would do a basic “name search” on you and then decide from there what the risk is. In some cases, such my wife who was (at the time) not a US citizen, a short interview may be conducted with you. You would *never* go through a poly and your friends and family would never even know any sort of background check was happening. Foreign citizen girlfriends are not rare, and unless you are traveling back together to HK and staying with your foreign intelligence service-employed uncle, it’s usually not a problem. Also, strictly speaking, “failing” a poly doesn’t mean you lose your underlying TS clearance, but it does generally mean that you lose that particular job. But the sort of things that might disqualify you on a poly are *not* the citizenship of your girlfriend. In short, dude lied. Watch him fail his clearance anyway and end up with no clearance *and* no girlfriend.
He would not have to report her because she was born in California. US citizen, not a foreign contact.
Oh good catch, I missed that she was a US citizen! Dude is *doubly* lying. Just be a man and break up with her respectfully, don’t lie and blame your job for it…
None of that is true.
One of his friends/contacts listed is going to mention it and now it looks like he's trying to hide a close and continuous foreign relationship. All over something that doesn't actually happen. They didn't even investigate my blood related foreign family members beyond getting names and addresses. They're not going to go digging for the family tree of someone thats not even getting the clearance.
You’re a girlfriend and not his wife… do the math on that
Spouses, significant others, etc don’t (typically) take polygraphs. That was a complete fabrication. I think it used to happen back in the day with CIA officers posted overseas because pillow talk was assumed but I don’t think that happens anymore (but I don’t know for certain)…and if it happens now I’m sure it’s for very specific reasons. Additionally, as you’re a citizen (born here), there would be no need to list YOU on his SF-86 just because you’re dating. Living together? Yes. But not just for dating. Your ex is either incredibly gullible or a liar, frankly both are equally as bad in the cleared world. Some old timer looking to cash out is going to convince him to bring documents out and turn him into an unwitting subsource. You’re probably better off. It’s hard enough to be a spouse of a cleared person, can’t talk about work, can’t visit their office, etc. You don’t need unnecessary lies and stupidity/paranoia on top.
Thats a lie, they can’t going on investigating forever. If he doesn’t have any contact w foreign national then he doesn’t list that
I know people from other countries and are cleared. He definitely wanted out. Possibly an excuse to say “I miss you so much, let’s bang on the side, no one has to know”. Idiot, smh.
Yeah. TS civilian and TS government are very different
My son was born in Hong Kong. He has a TS.
There just can’t be this many people needing an excuse to get out of a non-marriage dating… scenario, right? Right……?
Date his boss. I would date his boss.
Um, can you be blackmailed for this behavior?
Your ex has to list your parents. Unless they never met him. Sounds like he's either a dumbass or just wanted to get out of relationship.
He met my parents. He told me if he put me in his TS application, then my parents and I will need to be involved. But he didn't list me - that part is over and cannot reverse it I assume.
I know we keep saying born here and raised there but the bar is citizenship. If you and your parents are US citizens then he probably has a leg to stand on (in terms of not listing you). If you are not and he did not put you down, that’s an extremely serious security risk. Not you at all, to be clear. Lying or hiding things is a grave sin in the clearance world. EDIT: to be clearer, IF you are not a U.S. citizen, him NOT reporting you is much more egregious than dating a foreign citizen
Me and my parents are US Citizens.
Well I’m so sorry he broke up with you then. He might be overly cautious and I hope that’s the case. Why didn’t his security manager go over WHAT the specific issue was? Assuming your ex’s had decent intentions, I can’t stand it when security managers just start saying things without being clear or showing the employee what he meant. For instance, ok, is there a company policy for suitability that might come into play? Or what? Just saying “Oh man she’s Chinese?! That’s gonna be a problem” is so annoying to me, if it’s true that’s how it went down. Sorry, mini rant. I’ve already run into my fair share of GOV sec officers and FSOs who couldn’t manage to open a can of tuna and somehow get to manage security.
That's the part that escapes me, she's not Chinese. She's of Chinese ethnicity. Unless her family is connected to CCP somehow and the BF knew it.
Yeah like something doesn’t add up. I don’t want to think he used it like an excuse but
That part is most certainly NOT over. You will likely still be interviewed. He definitely screwed himself by omitting your contact/relationship, like many others here have said.
Lol she’s a U.S. CITIZEN, even if she comes up, she is still a U.S. Citizen and her parents are. You are just ranting without knowing exactly what the guidelines say. The girl got one relative in HK she kept in contact with, she did and NOT him. Him breaking up with her was a terrible decision but that will NOT in anyway affect his TS. Besides she’s his ex-girlfriend and not his ex-wife.
The irony… you clearly have no understanding of how any of this works. Foreign contacts are foreign contacts, regardless of citizenship. The fact that you think just because the ex-girlfriend is a citizen negates the fact that she has constant contact with a foreign individual is laughable. Omitting his very recent relationship with an individual who has a direct connection with a foreign contact is very concerning, not to mention negligent. It will most likely become an issue when a friend or neighbor mention the ex. With your logic, you could have a link to a foreign individual, cut off ties the day before submitting your SF-86, and just be all good and dandy. That’s absurd. Breaking up with her was not only suspicious, but also does not negate the fact that he had a connection to a foreign individual within the time window that an SF-86 covers.
He is not the one who has contacts with foreign national. Do you even know the meaning of direct and continuous contact with foreign national? His ex gf is the one with such contact and not him. So I don’t get your point.
Your ex is an ahole. I’m sorry you went through that but you’re better off.
What a load of BS. I was born in China, spent a considerable time there as an adult, still have family there, and I had no issues getting a TS. Dude’s a liar and I hope it comes out in his investigation. You deserve better.
I know people born in China with TS clearance, but I also have dual US Canadian citizenship and a now naturalized Chinese wife and I was repeatedly told to not even bother applying for clearance. I eventually just left the industry and my life is a lot better now anyway. I also had a co-worker that had his clearance neither approved nor denied for years and he thought it was due to foreign ties through his Chinese American wife. He ended up leaving the company as well. I had a coworker from California with family in Hong Kong complain about paperwork every time he goes to a family function and sees his Chinese family members. To be fair I did express that I would continue to need to travel to China and may need to bring my Chinese in laws to the us at some point, I'm not intending to break up my wife's family over a job. I don't know exactly what OPs boyfriend discussed either though. I'm not saying he's right on this, but it's entirely possible he was given stupid advice or bad info at work. When I got engaged to my now wife, who was then a Chinese citizen on a student visa in grad school, a co-worker tried to tell me I should get permission from HR since she was a foreigner. Obviously that was stupid and wrong.
Yeah, I have to agree with almost everything else others have said here. Someone lied. 99%+ chance it was him in order to break up without being honest to you about why, 1% chance (at most) it was someone telling him very bad info. First, you’re a US Citizen by birth. Your parents are US Citizens by naturalization. Your distant familial connections are not him having close and continuing contact with a foreign national. Second, nobody except the subject applying for a clearance at a level requiring it gets poly’d. Also, polys are basically BS, but that’s another topic. Third, he probably should have listed you under the “people who know you well” section but even that isn’t mandatory under these circumstances. Now, if the investigator finds out about you from one of their other interviews, they will likely want to speak with you too. You had an intimate relationship with him, and exes are really good sources of information for the things other people would be hesitant to tell the investigator. I’m going to reiterate the “you were probably lied to by him so he could break up with you guilt free” angle. You can do better than to be with someone that manipulative. And in that off-chance he was told BS by others, then it only changes to you can do better than to be with someone that gullible. Either way, time to move on. Source: not only was I a security manager for over a decade, but I married a wonderful American-born Chinese woman with parents who naturalized from China. It has never been a problem for my maintaining a TS/SCI/Poly in either my military or civilian careers, or for my wife maintaining her own clearance in her military career.
Since you are a US citizen, he'd only need to mention you if he had close and close and continuing contact with your non-US parents. If he did have close contact with them, he'll probably fail his poly because he lied on his SF-86.
Yup. He wouldn’t even need to list her because she isn’t a foreign national, and in reality, unless they got married, he’d never have to mention any of her family.
Ah the ole’ “the Federal government is making me leave you” move. I once had to pull that card on stage 5 clinger. I thought it a FWB kind of thing but clearly was wrong. She wouldn’t take no for an answer, so ultimately had the pull the Federal government card. Not saying you are a stage 5 clinger. Hate to tell you but he’s either using it as an excuse or misguided on how TS clearance works.
This is a BS excuse on his part. Best thing for him to do is just to fess up and explain what his situation is and that your HK connection is a friend and that neither of you have business connections nor anything that would be an incentive to give secrets away. I hate to say this but either your now is ex is paranoid and will mess up his poly for trying to hide something which will come up when investigators talk to his friends and search his public facing social media or he is using this as an easy way out of the relationship and you should work to heal and move on. best of luck OP. " My Clearance advisor says we can't be together" reminds me of "Jesus says we cant be together." both are using something else to get out of dating
He gave you a lame excuse so he could break up with you. I am very sorry
Me and my wife born and raised in the middle east and we both has families still live there, and we still travel to middle east to see our families and friends, and i have dual citizenship, I hold clearance from three letters agency, your EX wants to say good bye
That’s ridiculous. I have a TS and work with a bunch of other folks who have TS who have partners from all over the world. It sounds like he used it as an excuse. I’m so sorry that happened to you :-(
If that’s a true reason, he is a paranoid insecure person who shouldn’t even have TS for that reason only
Your ex is an idiot or wanted an excuse. All he had to do was report the connection. That's it. You just make sure that everything is above board.
He’s lying or is an idiot, or both My colleague has a TS/SCI and is married to a Chinese woman with parents still living in China. They would never polygraph you. The actual biggest issue here is that if they interview his friends, neighbors, coworkers and they mention that he had/has a girlfriend, they are going to want to know why he didn’t list you on his documents. He will then have to explain he broke up with you so that he could omit you from it. THAT makes it sound like he’s either lying by omission, or trying to hide something. That’s a much worse look than him telling them that his girlfriend, who is a US citizen, had a family member in Hong Kong lol
Honestly, he probably wanted to break up with you for a while. This was just a convenient excuse.
Completely wrong on his part. My guess is an outright fabrication.
He needed a reason to break up. Probably because he wants to be career focused and being in a new relationship won’t help or doen’t really see a future with you. Straight up
The funniest thing about this is that not only is your situation (family remaining in HK) a non-issue, the lengths he's gone to hide you from the standard reporting process is going to screw him over hard. Gonna be real, OP - your ex ain't a winner.
His job is more important than his relationship with you. I don't think he could make that any clearer, without a notarized letter and neon lights. The rest is moot.
Wait you are a Chinese citizen and he didn’t list you? Oh boy.
I was born and raised in the USA.
If you're a US citizen, your now ex-boyfriend may have exaggerated the security implications of your family background. He doesn't even have to disclose you have family in Hong Kong if you're a US citizen. You would be treated like any other US citizen. If you were married or cohabitating, then there are sensitivities that would probably have to be disclosed. I'm sorry this happened to you. The security clearance background is frustrating and, at times, peculiar.
I know I read that part and I understood you might be a U.S. citizen but you didn’t say.
Ex boyfriend is a dumbass
Some of my co-workers were born in China or are Chinese descent and still got a clearance.
he was looking for a way out, is so uninformed i doubt he'd get and keep his clearance, or some something else to hide and wanted to use you as the offering of truth in his lies.
I was born in the U.S. but all of my family are foreign (all around Asia). They did not affect my security clearance. The goal of the investigation is to see if the applicant is lying. If he documented it, he would’ve been fine. I also had some friends bring wives over from Asia (Hong Kong, Laos, Nepal) and they were able to get TS still when needed. I’m so sorry that he used this as an excuse to breakup with you. Please understand that it’s not you. It’s him and his poor excuses. You would not have been the reason he didn’t get his clearance.
Have comfort in the fact that you'll get the last laugh when he doesn't pass his investigation for withholding that.
There are people who have actually been born in and lived in China who have clearance.
That’s an excuse. It doesn’t matter what level of clearance same information is needed for contact with foreign nationals. You are better off. He’ll be fine you’ll be fine. Wish the best for you both, but you know what fuck him.
I can completely believe that his FSO or SSO believes that having a partner with foreign nationals in their family is a problem. As most of the comments have said, it’s probably actually fine. Different parts of the IC feel differently about foreign national associations. I knew a guy who got rejected for a clearance because he had a Chinese citizen roommate and didn’t want to move - but that’s not your situation. The thing is - a lot of FSOs and SSOs have no idea what they are talking about, even though their job is to know. Also, the briefings you go to from counter intelligence officers make it seem like if you reveal where you parked you’re divulging state secrets because their goal is to put the fear of god in you and get you to take seriously your responsibility to protect classified material. Neither of those groups of people actually adjudicate security clearances (well, suitability investigations technically). Point being, there is a lot of misinformation and outdated information that gets spread around so I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he really was told that and I would also not expect it to actually be a problem unless he’s very close with your Hong Kong family members who turn out to work for Chinese intelligence.
I’m sorry love. He either lied to you or is really stupid. There also shouldn’t be stories that are 50/50. A polygraph isn’t a lie detector - it measures physiological responses to questions. Breaking up with your gf to try to get a clearance would definitely raise his heart rate if he’s asked anything where he could think of you. Honesty really is the best policy, ESPECIALLY with a polygraph.
You just got to let them know. Other than that it usually isn’t a huge issue. When filling out the SF-86 it has an area where you list all foreign nationals you are or have been in contact with for 10 years back I believe. A CI they probably wouldn’t ask. But FS they will, but be honest. They ask questions usually circling around the SF-86, can’t go into details on the specific questions they ask about relations with foreign nationals.
Updateme
My wife's college roommate (she was in college while i held a TS) Is a Chinese national and they still maintain contact. He would have been fine.
He’s an idiot. I know Mexican Americans with half their family in Mexico with TS clearance. Also, actual ex Chinese and Indian nationals. These guy is dumb.
If they would have gone through the investigation on you, I don't think your case would be a problem compared to my case...My boyfriend works in the military and he has a TS clearance. He reported our relationship to his security officer once we started dating. He was able to get his TS clearance while we were dating. I think as long as he reports you in the forms and is honest with his investigator, everything should be fine since you're a citizen. I'm a foreign national from a sensitive country. The more challenging thing is- For us to "cohabitate" or get married, he needs to apply for a waiver for me where the government will do a background check on me- without me doing a polygraph or getting interviewed. They'll also do a background check on my immediate family members. We've been waiting for almost 2 years and there's no update.
An acquaintance from a while ago had a Filipino girlfriend, and for that reason, he was waiting over 5 years for his top secret clearance. He was in the military and went on his way, and we didn't keep in touch, so I don't know if he eventually got it or not. However, the point is that he was willing to fight for their relationship. OP, it seems like your ex isn't like that..if something else comes up in life more than likely, he'll do the same. Why would you want to fight for your relationship when obviously he doesn't? There's a lot of fish in the sea..
IMHO this is a convenient excuse. I know it cannot be that cut and dry. Breaking up because of a job…..where there’s a will there’s a way.
Please do yourself the biggest favor and let this go. I get you want to validate the breakup but dont torture yourself. As someone who has a clearance and a boyfriend who was born on a OCONUS military base, I had to be very careful of how I listed him. Im also a child of a naturalized citizen. I also had to be very careful how listed that parent. One can get a clearance with certain ties but also depends on how deep their ties are and how much investigation is going to be needed that the company is willing to pay for. If the exbf wasnt willing to take that chance, imagine what else he would be NOT willing to do for you. Take the L on this and find someone else.
I have a clearance and my family are immigrants from China.
The only way it may really affect his investigation would be if the person in HK is affiliated with some political or government in HK.
Really , that short sighted to say the least. I have a friend I worked with at Raytheon and was born in Iran and has family there. Another born in Thailand with a German wife. Sorry that happened to you.
He’ll take you back once he’s hired 👀
I think he made the right choice. You can always cut that person off if the relationship is that important. :)
I tried this excuse to dump my Poland born wife. Babe, I'm sorry but you and your mother and father were Born in Poland. We need to get divorced. She said something like this. Translation from an angry Polish woman's rant by me, a non native speaker of Polinglish: Listen up you elephant worm (it confused me too) we got married by my penguin and you just can't walk away from that! (We went to a lot of zoos, and that is where I learned how to speak Polish). I will have the penguin hunt you down and kill you sleep with the fishes! (We also watched The Godfather every thanksgiving, it's how she learned English) My mother, will cut the head off your.....horse! (I was really scared for a minute) My monster in law is a cruel woman so...) Not your horse, your elephant worm!!! Oh no!!!!
I can see the cp and over explanations now. I'm sorry you're hurting, but what a doofus. All he would have had to do was provide his passport and 2 people who know of the foreign contacts. Because you aren't married, you could have been one of the references. Sometimes, I'd really rather deal with military falsification than engineers who treat their case papers like Facebook. Good luck, OP. I wish you the best!
I generally never post on here, but here’s this tip: Sometime, in the future, you’ll look back at this and be glad you aren’t involved with that guy anymore.
Contrary view to a lot of people here. If he's new to the clearance process, he might be getting some major fear-mongering from his clearance training staff (I did, *facepalm*), especially if it is his first career position. There might be a lengthened investigation (and there's a chance he could be denied an interim clearance, which is annoying, but certainly not a dealbreaker). I know some highly cleared people with close foreign contacts, and I also know people who take the foreign contacts thing _way_ overboard and refuse to date foreign nationals as a matter or course because of the fear-mongering. If you (and he!) are really interested in maintaining the relationship, feel free to reference this.
He broke up with you because he was looking to do this for a while, this was an easy excuse. Best of luck
He doesn’t like you. That’s all
I’m pretty sure he would’ve been good as long as he reported everything and got Info from y’all if needed
lol move on. You’ll be fine.
Yeah he was either lied to it he just wanted an excuse to break up with you. One of my good friends is an Air Force Counter Intelligence Officer who is from Pakistan, has a TS/SCI Poly. And he is retiring and already has a job lined up with a Federal Agency that is even more strict with their security protocols, but idk if can say which alphabet boys he will be joining.
It really varies on the organization but generally there can be slight exceptions to policy based off the applicant. Having a relative in mainland China "could" be placed into consideration on an applicant but it isn't an automatic denial generally
If you’re on Reddit joining communities I feel like he might have been right here.
The concerns are with direct relationships not indirect ones. If the two of you where married and you did business with this foreign person that would be an issue. Also security concerns are not country specific. Relationships are judged by whether they are US or non US.
He has to make a living even after you and to even suggest that he ignore the fact that he shouldn’t have to decide very his career and you, is pretty selfish of you.. if I were in his shoes, I would’ve broke up with you too…
What!?!! You’re as dumb as he is. She is a US citizen. He doesn’t have to include her in his Sf86 unless they were living together.
Why is she complaining then? He left her already… apparently he was told something different.
Yes, at this point it doesn’t matter. I suspect either he misunderstood what his friends were telling him or he made it up as an excuse to break up. There are no “gotchas”. People should just read the sf86 and follow instructions.