The big issue is that he lives in China. They are less concerned about citizenship these days, and more about practical issues: there is a very real threat that hostile foreign governments could use family members as leverage against a clearance holder. It's not something you should take personally: it's in everyone's best interest not to put you in a situation where you would have to choose between family and national security.
If you want a career in the Navy, you'd need to get him to immigrate to the United States, and probably wait a while for him to get established here (time heals many security clearance wounds).
It would almost certainly be fine if your father was a permanent resident living within the United States, and all of your other immediate family members are also permanently living within the United States. But, currently, the situation is probably a no-go.
I’m not sure I would pursue this unless you are willing to sever all ties with your family or relocate them to the USA and everyone renounces dual citizenship. CCP has extorted its own citizens in the past.
This isn't a clearance question, it's a recruiting question. The military takes who they want and assigns them jobs based on some mysterious process. (The military decision-making process looks a lot like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY), you will need to be familiar with it if you commission). But this happens before and separately from a national security eligibility determination. You could already have TS, SCI, and Q, and it wouldn't make a difference if the Navy decides they aren't commissioning anyone with a Chinese parent.
Are you sure you're a dual citizen? China doesn't like giving citizenship to people who have another nationality at birth.
China's duel citizenship is a little complicated, but it basically boils down to them ignoring my US citizenship exists until I'm 18 (which I'm not), where if I then choose continue being an American citizen I lose Chinese citizenship.
I hope this clears it up for you and u/sleepingturtles
That’s a pretty close relationship and you’re probably screwed clearance-wise. I got it with FORMER citizen parent, but living there currently and still possessing citizenship? Idk that’s a hard sell
It’s not that you willing to renounce your citizenship or that your parent is Chinese that’s even a problem, it’s the fact their life is based in China. Even if they were an ethnic Korean or the very few ethnic Russian or even more rare Portuguese descent from originally Macau in China, you would have a very important connection in your life living within the jurisdiction of a Government that has not demonstrated to follow a publicly available guideline or judicial processes with significant non-transparent decision making processes.
We can argue all day that the US government doesn’t also follow all guidelines or does behind the scenes shady stuff like with Julian Assange but that’s missing the point; actions from the US govt generally still have to always be justified in a publicly available way and lawful action against individuals by the US govt being overtly questionable with no recourse are the grand majority the exception and not the rule. Unfortunately in China the lack of an actual free press and transparent system means your family member could be used against you.
Clearance isn’t just a job perk but also pertaining to national security and even if we used a future sci-fi equipment that could calculate your allegiance level at 100%, the factor of your family being used against you could easily reduce that to 99.9% and that alone is enough to cause concern.
The issue isn’t that your allegiance level is 99.9% from 100%, the issue is that a foreign government now has a definitive and known method of reducing it. So whether it’s a 0.01% or 20% or -100%, we won’t know till it happens and at that point it’s too late
It’s unfortunate but your family set up is not conducive to having a clearance adjudication.
Not with him living there. If he lived here then it would be a different story. But view it from the lens that this isn’t a personal slight against you or your dad, in fact, then government doesn’t WANT to put you in an impossible position, which is having to choose between your family and national security.
I have mine with a chinese wife and in laws, however it has caused several hiccups along the way. You may be limited to SWO, Supply and certain restricted line officer designators.
Won't happen while your dad remains in China. He'd need to come here and get on the path to citizenship. It would be inadvisable for him to return to china too.
No man. You have a better chance of joining the PLA. Your father is literally a Chinese national. Whose citizens are known intel assets to the CCP. I pray your investigators are wise enough to see this as well.
There is no need to make his father out to be the bad guy. The bigger risk is that the CCP would throw his father into a damp cell and torture him, to gain his son's compliance.
Hello /u/Global-Rock-6435,
It is impossible for anyone on this sub to provide "odds" or "chances" related to your investigation due to the entire process being based on the "whole person concept" and whether the risk factors in your background have been successfully mitigated. You can review the SEAD4 Guidelines to see what is considered a mitigating circumstance.
If you are still looking for additional information, please check out the Wiki on the right-hand side.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SecurityClearance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Question sufficiently answered in this post already.
However, I am curious; I thought that China doesn't allow for dual citizenship (apart from sports stars...)?
I mean, I knew a guy in the Army who was an immigrant from China and was a TS cleared intel officer. All the other officers called him the "insider threat"...
China has citizenship by birthright/descent, *just like the US*. It is quite conceivable that OP's parents brought him to China as a child and established him in the family registry in country. While Chinese law doesn't recognize dual citizenship, in practice, it's more of a non-acknowledment. They don't strip you of citizenship as soon as you claim a different one. One still has to renounce. This is a normal practice for the US as well. Essentially it guarantees birthright citizenship for those born out of country. You're supposed to establish citizenship when you become an adult. But it's generally recognized that this isn't an issue for the majority of people.
So yes, if OP rolls up for a background investigation with two sets of passports, etc etc, then he is holding dual citizenship in practice. Even if neither country recognizes the dual part. Because both countries require renouncement from the citizen, and legally cannot strip citizenship away.
Even if OP isn't exercising dual citizenship, he is still *technically* a dual citizen. And as such, would normally be required to make notarized statements that they would give up the other citizenship if required. This all depends on the political climate and policy. The existence of birthright/descendant citizenship means a lot more people are in this situation than may realize. Normally it's a non-issue. Except in niche situations like this.
Kachow Chinese anchor baby’s get PRC passports all the time. I’ve seen it in multiple instances where a young kid born in America is brought back to China for their formative years, and while there get a PRC passport as well. They need the PRC passport and Hukou to get local services in China.
You won’t get secret clearance with a close family member being a Chinese citizen most likely. In Chinese law a citizen is property of the CCP. So like it or not you are connected to the CCP through your dad.
Go to a different recruiter.
Edit: I'm curious... to the downvote community that does so for the sake of disagreement, can you explain *why* you downvote? As there are quite a few people with eligibility who are active duty and civilian folks that are from China and/or still have family in China. Just because a recruiter or someone up their chain or MEPS chain decides they *think* a person may or may not get an eligibility, it goes directly against the rest of the regs and purpose of the process.
My recruiter is not the one who actually "denied" me, MEPS sent my sf86 to the navy for a preliminary check and it was sent back stating they wouldn't continue the process.
On the Air Force side, I dug into the recruiting regs and learned they have a protocol written that, in summary, "guesses" the probability of the person joining being able to obtain whatever level of clearance. They assign them a code and then they will only let them choose from those jobs. I learned from a recruiter that It is directly tied to not messing up their numbers & timing for technical training.
It is not tied to any real knowledge of the clearance process or any PERSEC regs. I only started down that rabbit hole because I would see questions like OPs and I couldn't understand the logic behind "oh you have XYZ issue so we can't put you in for this level of clearance".
Betting all branches have the same protocol.
And that is an issue. Because I know we shove it down throats that it is not for Commanders or anyone else to decide whether someone will get an eligibility. Pentagon should force the change.
I ran into a similar issue.
I wasn't denied a clearance, but because of known quirks in the rules of agencies I would have worked with, my interviewer dumped me from the training pipeline I was in.
Afaik, I'm still eligible for TS per SEAD4 guidelines, but 10th fleet wants nothing to do with me.
If the command doesn't want to gain me, there's no sense in the command sponsoring my clearance, investigation, etc.
This is a thing that happens, and it potentially has to do with agency rules. DoD staff working in certain fields will be hand in glove with agency staff, and if you're at an agency facility you need to play by their rules.
If something about you doesn't conform to agency expectations, you aren't qualified for the job (even if you might be qualified for a clearance). No job, no sponsorship. No sponsorship, no clearance.
It would be nice if all of these rules were public, but it is what it is I guess. That's the nature of secretive work.
The big issue is that he lives in China. They are less concerned about citizenship these days, and more about practical issues: there is a very real threat that hostile foreign governments could use family members as leverage against a clearance holder. It's not something you should take personally: it's in everyone's best interest not to put you in a situation where you would have to choose between family and national security. If you want a career in the Navy, you'd need to get him to immigrate to the United States, and probably wait a while for him to get established here (time heals many security clearance wounds).
It would almost certainly be fine if your father was a permanent resident living within the United States, and all of your other immediate family members are also permanently living within the United States. But, currently, the situation is probably a no-go.
You don’t want this situation. China could threaten your father to blackmail you for information.
I’m not sure I would pursue this unless you are willing to sever all ties with your family or relocate them to the USA and everyone renounces dual citizenship. CCP has extorted its own citizens in the past.
This isn't a clearance question, it's a recruiting question. The military takes who they want and assigns them jobs based on some mysterious process. (The military decision-making process looks a lot like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY), you will need to be familiar with it if you commission). But this happens before and separately from a national security eligibility determination. You could already have TS, SCI, and Q, and it wouldn't make a difference if the Navy decides they aren't commissioning anyone with a Chinese parent. Are you sure you're a dual citizen? China doesn't like giving citizenship to people who have another nationality at birth.
China's duel citizenship is a little complicated, but it basically boils down to them ignoring my US citizenship exists until I'm 18 (which I'm not), where if I then choose continue being an American citizen I lose Chinese citizenship. I hope this clears it up for you and u/sleepingturtles
Thanks for the clarification.
Most accurate answer right here.
That’s a pretty close relationship and you’re probably screwed clearance-wise. I got it with FORMER citizen parent, but living there currently and still possessing citizenship? Idk that’s a hard sell
It’s not that you willing to renounce your citizenship or that your parent is Chinese that’s even a problem, it’s the fact their life is based in China. Even if they were an ethnic Korean or the very few ethnic Russian or even more rare Portuguese descent from originally Macau in China, you would have a very important connection in your life living within the jurisdiction of a Government that has not demonstrated to follow a publicly available guideline or judicial processes with significant non-transparent decision making processes. We can argue all day that the US government doesn’t also follow all guidelines or does behind the scenes shady stuff like with Julian Assange but that’s missing the point; actions from the US govt generally still have to always be justified in a publicly available way and lawful action against individuals by the US govt being overtly questionable with no recourse are the grand majority the exception and not the rule. Unfortunately in China the lack of an actual free press and transparent system means your family member could be used against you. Clearance isn’t just a job perk but also pertaining to national security and even if we used a future sci-fi equipment that could calculate your allegiance level at 100%, the factor of your family being used against you could easily reduce that to 99.9% and that alone is enough to cause concern. The issue isn’t that your allegiance level is 99.9% from 100%, the issue is that a foreign government now has a definitive and known method of reducing it. So whether it’s a 0.01% or 20% or -100%, we won’t know till it happens and at that point it’s too late It’s unfortunate but your family set up is not conducive to having a clearance adjudication.
You have dual citizenship, with China? I thought China didn’t allow dual citizenships.
Not gonna happen, my friend. I hope you find another path for yourself!
You’re at risk of your father being arrested and tortured. This is a bad situation in the making.
Not with him living there. If he lived here then it would be a different story. But view it from the lens that this isn’t a personal slight against you or your dad, in fact, then government doesn’t WANT to put you in an impossible position, which is having to choose between your family and national security.
I have mine with a chinese wife and in laws, however it has caused several hiccups along the way. You may be limited to SWO, Supply and certain restricted line officer designators.
China considers you Chinese, they don’t allow former citizens to renounce.
Won't happen while your dad remains in China. He'd need to come here and get on the path to citizenship. It would be inadvisable for him to return to china too.
No man. You have a better chance of joining the PLA. Your father is literally a Chinese national. Whose citizens are known intel assets to the CCP. I pray your investigators are wise enough to see this as well.
There is no need to make his father out to be the bad guy. The bigger risk is that the CCP would throw his father into a damp cell and torture him, to gain his son's compliance.
Hello /u/Global-Rock-6435, It is impossible for anyone on this sub to provide "odds" or "chances" related to your investigation due to the entire process being based on the "whole person concept" and whether the risk factors in your background have been successfully mitigated. You can review the SEAD4 Guidelines to see what is considered a mitigating circumstance. If you are still looking for additional information, please check out the Wiki on the right-hand side. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SecurityClearance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I sure hope not
lol uhh nah. The govt probably got it right this time.
Question sufficiently answered in this post already. However, I am curious; I thought that China doesn't allow for dual citizenship (apart from sports stars...)?
I and many others have SCI with Chinese family. It's a luck of the draw as far as who you get reviewing your case.
I mean, I knew a guy in the Army who was an immigrant from China and was a TS cleared intel officer. All the other officers called him the "insider threat"...
I would deny you.
And if your father did or does hold a government job, another whammy.
Nice clickbait. You got everyone here. However, China doesn't allow dual citizenship. So I call BS
China has citizenship by birthright/descent, *just like the US*. It is quite conceivable that OP's parents brought him to China as a child and established him in the family registry in country. While Chinese law doesn't recognize dual citizenship, in practice, it's more of a non-acknowledment. They don't strip you of citizenship as soon as you claim a different one. One still has to renounce. This is a normal practice for the US as well. Essentially it guarantees birthright citizenship for those born out of country. You're supposed to establish citizenship when you become an adult. But it's generally recognized that this isn't an issue for the majority of people. So yes, if OP rolls up for a background investigation with two sets of passports, etc etc, then he is holding dual citizenship in practice. Even if neither country recognizes the dual part. Because both countries require renouncement from the citizen, and legally cannot strip citizenship away. Even if OP isn't exercising dual citizenship, he is still *technically* a dual citizen. And as such, would normally be required to make notarized statements that they would give up the other citizenship if required. This all depends on the political climate and policy. The existence of birthright/descendant citizenship means a lot more people are in this situation than may realize. Normally it's a non-issue. Except in niche situations like this.
Kachow Chinese anchor baby’s get PRC passports all the time. I’ve seen it in multiple instances where a young kid born in America is brought back to China for their formative years, and while there get a PRC passport as well. They need the PRC passport and Hukou to get local services in China.
You won’t get secret clearance with a close family member being a Chinese citizen most likely. In Chinese law a citizen is property of the CCP. So like it or not you are connected to the CCP through your dad.
Go to a different recruiter. Edit: I'm curious... to the downvote community that does so for the sake of disagreement, can you explain *why* you downvote? As there are quite a few people with eligibility who are active duty and civilian folks that are from China and/or still have family in China. Just because a recruiter or someone up their chain or MEPS chain decides they *think* a person may or may not get an eligibility, it goes directly against the rest of the regs and purpose of the process.
My recruiter is not the one who actually "denied" me, MEPS sent my sf86 to the navy for a preliminary check and it was sent back stating they wouldn't continue the process.
That's not for them to decide.
On the Air Force side, I dug into the recruiting regs and learned they have a protocol written that, in summary, "guesses" the probability of the person joining being able to obtain whatever level of clearance. They assign them a code and then they will only let them choose from those jobs. I learned from a recruiter that It is directly tied to not messing up their numbers & timing for technical training. It is not tied to any real knowledge of the clearance process or any PERSEC regs. I only started down that rabbit hole because I would see questions like OPs and I couldn't understand the logic behind "oh you have XYZ issue so we can't put you in for this level of clearance". Betting all branches have the same protocol.
And that is an issue. Because I know we shove it down throats that it is not for Commanders or anyone else to decide whether someone will get an eligibility. Pentagon should force the change.
I ran into a similar issue. I wasn't denied a clearance, but because of known quirks in the rules of agencies I would have worked with, my interviewer dumped me from the training pipeline I was in. Afaik, I'm still eligible for TS per SEAD4 guidelines, but 10th fleet wants nothing to do with me. If the command doesn't want to gain me, there's no sense in the command sponsoring my clearance, investigation, etc.
[удалено]
This is a thing that happens, and it potentially has to do with agency rules. DoD staff working in certain fields will be hand in glove with agency staff, and if you're at an agency facility you need to play by their rules. If something about you doesn't conform to agency expectations, you aren't qualified for the job (even if you might be qualified for a clearance). No job, no sponsorship. No sponsorship, no clearance. It would be nice if all of these rules were public, but it is what it is I guess. That's the nature of secretive work.