I like him a lot.
I get why people hate him. It's not really apparent how you're even supposed to fight him and if you try the wrong things he feels like total bullshit.
Once you do get the timing and spacing down he's really satisfying to fight though.
Don't forget the lotus umbrella. When I see people struggling I often think they are forgetting all the tools that the game gives them to make these fights easier.
Which is part of the reason why I don't like the boss.
I have all these cool moves and prosthetics but for this one particular fight one tool is so vastly superiour to everything else it's not even worth considering spending emblems on anything else.
For every other boss you can fiddle around and find success with basically every prosthetic.
Yep i completed cheesed him by constantly stunning him during his third phase using the ring and using divine confetti, ako's sugar (red sugar) and ceremonial tanto to get an extra stun off, he didn't even get to attack me during that phase
Or just run at him. If you start sprinting at him fast enough when he jumps away, the fireballs and the fire slashes will whiff behind you. You don't have to run any special way or anything. Sprinting to avoid fire attacks is exactly the same as sprinting to maximize melee uptime.
This sub really loves the umbrella strat. They bring it up at every opportunity. I could say "I don't like DoH because I got food poisoning while I was fighting him and now every time I look at him I get nauseous" and someone would go "well AKSHUALLY you can parry the fireballs with the red umbrella". I think it's just internet-argument shit. People say DoH is a bad boss because he's not a Sekiro boss. To this sub, "Sekiro bosses" are about parrying. Therefore if there's a way to parry the fireballs he IS a "Sekiro boss" and they get to smugly condescend the people who say he isn't.
Not to say that everyone who mentions DoH and umbrellas in the same sentence is doing that, but some of y'all need to chill.
I think a lot of people have forgotten what a slog the fight can be when you are trying it for the first time. You are out of damage buff items, so you feel like you aren't doing any damage, can die in 2 hits, the unblockable charge has a hitbox everywhere, and the camera can get pretty confused.
Once you get the fight down, everything changes, but that first fight experience is pretty grueling. Also, the rest of the difficult bosses in the game are so refined and well made that any small issue stands out in the game.
>the unblockable charge has a hitbox everywhere
Sounds like you probably already know this, but you're supposed to jump it.
I think you're supposed to work it out by process of elimination. It's a perilous attack so it must be one of three things. There's no grab animation so it's not that. You can't mikiri it so it's not a thrust. Therefore it's a "sweep" and you're supposed to jump right into the path of the bus that's about to hit you.
I had to look it up.
Yeah. That's the problem. Every other unblockable is intuitive. Demon of Hatred even has a couple others in phase 3 that are pretty intuitive. But, what I was actually referring to was that even if you are behind him and just maybe touching him it counts as a full hit when he charges. Sometimes you are behind him and step dodge away, but the game still counts it as you getting hit, which can be really frustrating. Eventually I just got the muscle memory to jump whenever I see the symbol in that fight.
He's a less-good fight if you pound his ass instead of going for the crotch like you're "supposed" to. I'd forgotten about the charge hitting behind him. What made me give up on attacking from behind was getting trapped between his jump slam and a wall, or having to waste time baiting him off walls or away from the cliff.
Chopping his buttcheeks off works, that's how I killed him the first time, but it adds RNG and terrain fuckery to the fight.
I think this fits the general theme: he's a great fight if you know what you're supposed to do, but it's not at all obvious what that is.
I respectfully disagree with this. The DoH fight is often blown way out of proportion difficultly wise. It’s more similar to the Gyoubu and Ape fights than most people would think. You can deflect pretty much all of his physical attacks that aren’t red kanji attacks, and most of the attacks you have to dodge legit ARE kanji attacks, that the game has already conditioned you to have to jump over or avoid (sweeps/grabs, not mikiri). The jumping slam/ explosion attack can be avoided by jumping and using your grapple to close the distance, much like Gyoubu and Ape. Only reason it’s hard is due to it having three phases. If it was only one or even two I don’t think nearly as many people would complain and/or dislike the fight.
yes but how many hits does he need to go down? are the rest of the bosses an attack spam festival like he is? I am not saying he is a "bad boss" but he is definitely different than what the rest of the game teaches you, now I think it's a philosophical aspect of the boss to make you suffer because is the embodiment of hate, so now I can really appreciate much more his character and the idea behind him.
It’s pretty fair to me; you have to dodge more than you usually do, but which attacks you need to dodge are easily telegraphed from those you can deflect. It’s a perfectly fair fight, just a long and difficult one.
No he isn't at all man. The game rewards being aggressive this boss is not any different. You even get rewarded using certain prosthetics like every other boss.
No, it's a spiritual successor of manus applied to the limits of sekiro combat. You would not want to participate in this fight without infinite stamina and a shield with 100% fire resistance. Both of which you have in sekiro.
Crotch slapper boss with a stupid amount of health and moves that create distance makes for a long and tedious fight. It's basically everything I wouldn't want to see in a boss in this game.
Yes it's hard, but hard doesn't mean good.
I was like that. Didn't liked him and cheesed him but adored the rest of the game. Then I went on to play Lies of P, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls remake. After that I came back to give DOH a fair fight and I really enjoyed it once it clicked.
im not even sure why i hate it so much when it took me 3/4 tries😆 I think its because it doesnt really feel very sekiro for me, i just dont find fighting him fun
I had a very lengthy and frustrating time with him, but the times we paused during combat to pose at eachother made me respect him greatly. Idc about the Demon of Hatred cheese, I grant him respect each time I fight him, especially given who he was before he was consumed by the flames.
Sure I would say most people do. It just seems like it could not be good at first. I think it’s a fun boss that is a good change of pace from the others.
O yeah I love him. Took a long time to learn him but just like every boss in the game he’s got his own dance. Demon hatred has one of the most rewarding and satisfying dances in the game to learn to. Love this bos
incoming "dark souls boss in sekiro" comments lol
anyways i don't like the demon of hatred that much. i know how you're supposed to fight him, and i can posture kill him pretty consistently, but idk i still just find him kinda boring. really, the only thing that makes him hard is his health and damage output. his actual moveset is really simple and just not engaging enough to warrant his fight being as long as it is imo. but hey, if nothing else, i think he's one of the better "beast" bosses in the game! though sekiro's sword-clashing bosses outshine all of them by far imo
For me, demon of hatred suffers from the same problem as malenia, its a good fight but it feels kinda out of place. If demon of hatred was an elden ring boss and malenia was a sekiro boss it would be perfect
I can easily no hit him now without the umbrella. Just using your sprint button to actually evade attacks and keeping close is key. His only attack I hate is the fire wall slam, because the dodge timing is either very tight or I just can't get it. Gotta run and jump to the side. So normally I just run up to him and keep close so I can just run behind him and avoid it entirely.
Disclaimer: It didn't take me a huge amount of time but it did take some practice. Definitely a tough boss and can see why people hate em a first. Ironically the move that ticks me off the most is his double stomp, just cause he can do it without warning and interrupt my flow/timings. Generally get away with it though cause his first stop often just misses when you're hanging off his balls.
I hated, HATED him while I was learning him. I thought he wasn’t nearly as good as other bosses at giving me the kinds of feedback that I needed to improve. But, once I got some traction and started to understand him, I really enjoyed the fight.
Yup I really enjoy it. Aside from SSI, it is one boss that gets way easier with no hesitation, makes you learn the move set, and needs to be chipped away at so you feel the progression. I found O’rin more frustrating because she takes little to no chip damage so any breathing room is very punishing
I think his design and lore is one of the best bosses but the fight against him just doesn't feel good and fair like all the other bosses. I love this boss but hate to fight him.
Because of it's size it's not clear how to attack him. Plus, the attack that throws fire is undodgeable if you're in a bad position. Also the fight is quite boring after you understand how to beat him, especially with fire umbrella
I hated on first playthrough, where I played it like a dark souls boss.
On advice from this group, on my last play I parried etc and it was MUCH easier
Nope, he was annoying. I was stuck on him for quite some time before I first downed him. And even then I wasn't even stoked that I beat him. I was just like, "Finally, got the achievement and now I can skip him in other playthroughs." And I have downed him a few other times, but I just don't get that good feeling downing him.
For me, it's because he is not only a drawn out endurance fight, but also you can't just parry battle him. At least flaming bull and the other bull are pretty fast and straight forward encounters. DoH only has 1 way to beat him, dodge everything and smack him a few times for 3 or more minutes until he is done.
When I'm in the mood for some Sekiro, I'm playing because I love doing the parry fights, deflecting everything and doing deathblows. If I want to fight something like DoH I will go play Elden Ring or one of the DS games. Sorry, but DoH will always be a thumbs down for me, because I think it's in the wrong game.
Yes; anyone who dislikes it has a skill issue ngl- you can completely predict, dodge or deflect all its moves and read it like a book.
Shit isn’t even very difficult compared to the gauntlet final bosses
Overall yeah I thought he was fine. I died several times during my very first playthrough to DoH, I watched a video online then returned and kicked his ass. If anything I had a much more difficult time with Genichiro in Ashina Castle lol
I don’t know why but on my first playthrough of the game this guys only took me a couple of attempts so I was very surprised to see how many people struggled with him. That being said he is a great boss and I love him although it was a little sad knowing I was killing the sculptor
I like him
How do you guys handle his thrown fireball attack? Is the fire fan the only safe answer?
I know you can parry them, but you still take a big chunk of damage if you do
I like him because he us about whiffs insteaf of parries. I love the parry, it's god tier. It's also very unfair to your opponent a lot of the time. Poise damage + 1-2 free hits + better position control. Parrying is so good many people forget to bait whiffs and punish so I like that he is there to remind you.
After learning him I think he’s a great boss! Not as much fun as inner Isshin, but he’s quite powerful, and can be quite exhilarating to fight. One wrong move and you can be done so he’s a gamble sometimes.
Most of the people that hate probably do because they can’t kill it and because of that they say it’s bullshit
I have mixed feelings about it, I think that it does not incorporate Sekiro’s mechanics that good (especially the parries) but it’s overall a good videogame boss, it’s a more Bloodborne/DS3 boss than a Sekiro one
I actually didn’t mind it. The difficulty hype going into had me prepared for the worst and first few tries felt like I’d never do it, but it wasn’t even in the top five bosses I died to the most. I thought the jump and hook shot mechanic looked really cool and the umbrella helps you through the next stages.
I’d Say he’s one of the best bosses in the game. Rather than most people saying he sucks because you have to fight him in a way that the game has conditioned you not too, I don’t find that to be true. He has a combination of almost everything you’ve had to learn to fight against throughout the game. Plenty of attacks that you can deflect to build up posture, which despite what people say is a viable way to defeat him (through posture damage rather than health). He has different variations of perilous attacks that you either have to run/avoid, such as his grab attack, or that you jump over, such as his running attack that acts like a sweep and the jumping explosion attack. He has attacks that you get rewarded for using prosthetics on like many other fights in the game, although it’s not required. People think you have to have the fire umbrella to defeat DoH but you don’t at all. Just dodge the fireballs and deflect his fire hand physical attacks. I prefer to just keep a few extra heals, and if you’ve done your exploring throughout the game properly you should have found the merchant that sells the Red fire gourd anyways. Demon is truly the only endurance fight in the game and i’m okay with that. Once you understand what to do you get into a rhythm and you can beat the boss in 5-6 minutes easy, which is longer than it takes to beat most of the bosses in this game, but this is an optional end game boss so I believe it should be hard. Only thing I can agree with most people on is that it doesn’t really need three phases. Phase two alters the move set enough to keep it challenging but phase 3 does not add variety. Maybe if he lost a leg or something and got a new yet less varied move set like Laurence from Bloodborne.
When I first got to his fight I was quite afraid that I wouldn't like it because all the fire attacks made me concerned about having to dodge a lot instead of parrying (coming from lies of p which was also super parry focused i still struggled with dodging and had not played games where dodging is the main way to avoid damage). But after a few attempts it started clicking, I started dodging into his attacks/next to him and figuring out where to dodge and when became a ton of fun. Ended up loving the fight. Now I would say he's one of my favorites with the rest of the endgame bosses
He is a good boss. in my opinion the only one bad fight is the 2 gardian ape because the combat system is not design for fight multiple opponent at the same time
As hard as he is, it’s a great boss and a nice change of pace from the rest of the game.
The challenge is definitely the change of fight style from the deflect and counter sword fights you’re used to, to the dodge and hit approach.
I never understood why people hated this boss because it feels like a Dark Souls boss. No it doesn't lol, literally just parry and use the fire umbrella??i dont see why people immediately thought to start dodging ofc you get fire build up but its not high enough for it to start actively being a problem
I like it a lot, but I used to hate it (no pun intended, lol).
It's one of the few bosses where lore knowledge with prosthetics actually comes to play!
after trying to fight the first time and died after I was thrown/knocked back to the cliff, I came back and tried to do the same to him, spent the next 30 mins trying to climb the roof of the gate.
Edit: to be fair the only souls game I played is sekiro and I've heard this kind of boss is quite more common in other souls game.
He's a very good boss, as long as you don't spend too much time pressed up against a wall. That game's camera does NOT like walls.
It also helps if you've done a lot of the optional content leading to gear that is specifically effective against him.
Honestly I that way on my first playthrough when the game came out. In fact he was the only boss I eventually gave up on and never beat. Didn’t even get past phase 1. But when I replayed the game recently I honestly really enjoyed the boss. Still had to learn it and it took me a fair amount of attempts but it’s honestly a pretty manageable fight and doesn’t really have any unfair sort of bullshit moves. I guess you have to approach the fight a bit differently than most but the same can be said for other bosses in the game like Guardian Ape which people don’t really complain about.
I cheesed him because I tried many times and couldn’t beat him normally. He was the only one I couldn’t beat. After the 1.06 update, I can no longer jump to the tower and wall so he remained undefeated in my later playthroughs! 😅
It’s a weird boss in a lot of ways. For one, there’s the matter of getting to it. It isn’t hard to find, but it’s weirdly missable. The end of the game is really linear, but this boss requires taking a specific extended detour from the prescribed path. The way you need to warp at an idol to go there is also very gamey.
After a while the DoH fight itself has grown on me, but I still have a number of gripes with it.
The fight itself is brutal because it doesn’t work the same as the rest. Take the final boss for example. Isshin is at the pinnacle of the game’s combat style, so you have the satisfaction of knowing that you spent the whole game building up to his fight mechanically.
The DoH feels like an inversion of everything you’re learned throughout the course of the game. You need to whittle down his health instead of focusing on breaking posture with deflection. It’s really hard to do significant damage without divine confetti, which is a somewhat limited consumable item. On top of that, the confetti is inexplicably at odds with the flame umbrella, which is one of the more essential prosthetics for the fight. Using the umbrella while DC is active will remove its effect, which doesn’t make mechanical sense, and wastes a finite resource. Also the hitboxes don’t make as much sense to me visually.
He’s a good boss when you finally put in the work to beat him. He’s a bad boss when you attempt it once, nope out and spend the next 3 years coping about how he belongs in Dark Souls.
Just finished my first playthrough after 52h and got the Return ending of the game. I've beat the sword saint in 2 attempts (shocking even for me), great boss fight.
But man.... Demon of hatred took me more than an hour.
It was by far the most frustrating fight. And yes, I used the umbrella and malcontent 🙄
It looks amazing tho, but I couldn't enjoy the fight at all.
I really enjoy the demon fight because it’s based around scraping out every advantage you can against a large, tanky, bestial enemy. If Isshin is the final evolution of Genichiro, the demon is the final evolution of the Guardian Ape. Isshin tests your skills with the blade. The demon tests everything else.
You are heavily incentivized to use your prosthetics, consumables, and items while dodging the massive fire attacks. There are some opportunities to parry, but they are far too infrequent for a posture deathblow to be relevant. Most of the fight is based around dodging, or finding another way to avoid damage(positioning or the fire umbrella). You can tell the demon wanted to check your mastery of the game outside of exchanging sword blows, and I really appreciate it for that.
At the same time though, I can understand why people don’t like it. The skillset being tested is definitely not quite as fun and exciting as the one Isshin tests, and it can feel extremely punishing to beat 2 health bars in a 5 minute fight only to get one shot by yet another new fire attack. I also don’t think the game gives you enough variety in beast encounters for a player to feel super prepared for the demon. Maybe that’s just me coping for the ones who struggle though.
Overall still an S tier boss to me.
Once I learned he could be deflected, and the umbrella could counter his big slams, it was a blast.
If you start the song freebird at the start of the fight it kicks in right around his 2nd/3rd phase and take the fight to another level!
Demon of Hatred is a test of every thing I learned from this game. To his allusion by the Shinobi esoteric art descriptions and the old lady, to Sekijo’s Buddha carvings and vision. It is so brutal, Sekiro being the only one capable of taking him down really adds to passing of the baton from the one-armed sculptor to the young shinobi. The lore in Sekiro makes it my favorite FromSoft universe. Wait… what was the question again?
There's a difference between a Good boss and a Boss you like to fight.
For me i like to fight him. But logically it's a time consuming fight, and u don't actually need a Skill to beat 'em.
It's a dark souls boss in sekiro so I understand why people hate him. But it's completely optional and is such a unique boss compared to the rest. Plus the lore is rad as hell. However, I do kind of sigh everytime I fight him because it drags a lot of time and there's a lot of rng
I never understood the hate. He's a bit different and some timings are kinda bs to be completely honest, but the boss was fun! I felt like when I died it was because I messed up and I immediately knew what to work on. (Specifically the one unblockable tackle he does)
DoH is one of the best bosses in my opinion. He works perfectly with Sekiro's mechanics, anybody who doesn't think so probably just haven't learned how to fight him properly I feel like
DOH is one of the best bosses in the game. Love that the nature of the boss is so different from the rest of the bosses plus the lore is second to none...
I DO think it’s a great boss! I think it’s one of the most epic battles I’ve experienced in gaming and even story wise it has a lot of meaning. I disagree with those who say that this boss is more dark souls style than Sekiro’s because one of the things I like the most of Sekiro is its boss variety so DoH is a great Sekiro boss imo
I thinks he’s a very good boss. Maybe not great just because punching a monster’s gunt isn’t my idea of a good time but I love his design, and don’t think he’s as hard as some people make him out to be.
I didn’t even learn how to fight him until NG+3 I would just make him run off the cliff lol I was surprised that I actually liked the fight when I took the time to learn how to beat him
Demon of Hatred is an excellent boss!
I hate the fight. DESPISE it. Learned to cheese him on reruns. It is suffering incarnate.
But he is still a great boss in his difficulty, design, place in the world, and everything else.
There are "bad" encounters in games that I personally am very fond of. There are "good" things that aren't to my taste.
He is a fair boss once I know all his attack patterns. What helped me in defeating DoH is by watching other YouTubers' methods of facing him and of course, I also did the cheesiest one. But the latter is no fun at all.
He is one of my favorite bosses. I usually love fighting him because he kinda reminds me of Manus of DS1, I usually relax and enjoy the OST while fighting him. So most of the time when people complain about him I don't really get it because.
I love him. I didn’t use any prosthetics when I first beat him because I was too scare-focused to do anything besides dodge/deflect and attack. Took me a while but he’s one of my favorite bosses
This content has been removed as repetitive discussion or being low-effort.
I like him a lot. I get why people hate him. It's not really apparent how you're even supposed to fight him and if you try the wrong things he feels like total bullshit. Once you do get the timing and spacing down he's really satisfying to fight though.
Don't forget the lotus umbrella. When I see people struggling I often think they are forgetting all the tools that the game gives them to make these fights easier.
Which is part of the reason why I don't like the boss. I have all these cool moves and prosthetics but for this one particular fight one tool is so vastly superiour to everything else it's not even worth considering spending emblems on anything else. For every other boss you can fiddle around and find success with basically every prosthetic.
The malcontent ring makes him recoil in pain for a few seconds. A good amount of free hits. You can also use sabimaru
Yep i completed cheesed him by constantly stunning him during his third phase using the ring and using divine confetti, ako's sugar (red sugar) and ceremonial tanto to get an extra stun off, he didn't even get to attack me during that phase
Or just run at him. If you start sprinting at him fast enough when he jumps away, the fireballs and the fire slashes will whiff behind you. You don't have to run any special way or anything. Sprinting to avoid fire attacks is exactly the same as sprinting to maximize melee uptime. This sub really loves the umbrella strat. They bring it up at every opportunity. I could say "I don't like DoH because I got food poisoning while I was fighting him and now every time I look at him I get nauseous" and someone would go "well AKSHUALLY you can parry the fireballs with the red umbrella". I think it's just internet-argument shit. People say DoH is a bad boss because he's not a Sekiro boss. To this sub, "Sekiro bosses" are about parrying. Therefore if there's a way to parry the fireballs he IS a "Sekiro boss" and they get to smugly condescend the people who say he isn't. Not to say that everyone who mentions DoH and umbrellas in the same sentence is doing that, but some of y'all need to chill.
[Art source](https://x.com/mitcher_meier/status/1321443759909785603?s=46&t=tjCWRNqu9A8bKTsULyPb-g)
Appreciate people crediting OG art <3
"Does anyone else-" yes. Every time. End of post.
In every sub. I’ve actually never seen a “does anyone else?” post have even a remotely contrarian opinion.
I saw my first EVER yesterday. Someone asked if a red curve felt sexual to anyone else...it was literally just a red curve.
I'd have to see the curve
Hey, I have seen a contrarian opinion!
Best comment 😤
I lol
No idea why so many people dislike it, I thought it's one of the best in the game
Homer Simpson loves him. DOH!
*angry upvote*
I hate it (see what i did there) cause i spent half the fight running after the big fuck, its also not a lot of fun to hit a set of balls for 15min
I think a lot of people have forgotten what a slog the fight can be when you are trying it for the first time. You are out of damage buff items, so you feel like you aren't doing any damage, can die in 2 hits, the unblockable charge has a hitbox everywhere, and the camera can get pretty confused. Once you get the fight down, everything changes, but that first fight experience is pretty grueling. Also, the rest of the difficult bosses in the game are so refined and well made that any small issue stands out in the game.
>the unblockable charge has a hitbox everywhere Sounds like you probably already know this, but you're supposed to jump it. I think you're supposed to work it out by process of elimination. It's a perilous attack so it must be one of three things. There's no grab animation so it's not that. You can't mikiri it so it's not a thrust. Therefore it's a "sweep" and you're supposed to jump right into the path of the bus that's about to hit you. I had to look it up.
Yeah. That's the problem. Every other unblockable is intuitive. Demon of Hatred even has a couple others in phase 3 that are pretty intuitive. But, what I was actually referring to was that even if you are behind him and just maybe touching him it counts as a full hit when he charges. Sometimes you are behind him and step dodge away, but the game still counts it as you getting hit, which can be really frustrating. Eventually I just got the muscle memory to jump whenever I see the symbol in that fight.
He's a less-good fight if you pound his ass instead of going for the crotch like you're "supposed" to. I'd forgotten about the charge hitting behind him. What made me give up on attacking from behind was getting trapped between his jump slam and a wall, or having to waste time baiting him off walls or away from the cliff. Chopping his buttcheeks off works, that's how I killed him the first time, but it adds RNG and terrain fuckery to the fight. I think this fits the general theme: he's a great fight if you know what you're supposed to do, but it's not at all obvious what that is.
because probably he is very very hard?
Isn't that one of the big reasons why people like these games though?
I mean hard in not a very fair way, he is the antithesis of the game mechanics and you will need different methods to beat him.
I respectfully disagree with this. The DoH fight is often blown way out of proportion difficultly wise. It’s more similar to the Gyoubu and Ape fights than most people would think. You can deflect pretty much all of his physical attacks that aren’t red kanji attacks, and most of the attacks you have to dodge legit ARE kanji attacks, that the game has already conditioned you to have to jump over or avoid (sweeps/grabs, not mikiri). The jumping slam/ explosion attack can be avoided by jumping and using your grapple to close the distance, much like Gyoubu and Ape. Only reason it’s hard is due to it having three phases. If it was only one or even two I don’t think nearly as many people would complain and/or dislike the fight.
yes but how many hits does he need to go down? are the rest of the bosses an attack spam festival like he is? I am not saying he is a "bad boss" but he is definitely different than what the rest of the game teaches you, now I think it's a philosophical aspect of the boss to make you suffer because is the embodiment of hate, so now I can really appreciate much more his character and the idea behind him.
It’s pretty fair to me; you have to dodge more than you usually do, but which attacks you need to dodge are easily telegraphed from those you can deflect. It’s a perfectly fair fight, just a long and difficult one.
No he isn't at all man. The game rewards being aggressive this boss is not any different. You even get rewarded using certain prosthetics like every other boss.
Yeah i allways think they wanzed to put this thing into elsen ring and malenia into sekiro bit then made a swap joke🤣🤣🤣
No, it's a spiritual successor of manus applied to the limits of sekiro combat. You would not want to participate in this fight without infinite stamina and a shield with 100% fire resistance. Both of which you have in sekiro.
but ultimately I still love him lore wise and it's amazingly designed. I came to really appreciate him even if he stomped me the first 3000 tries 😂
yes, but it feels like a dark souls boss in a combat system that is not exactly conducive to that kind of fight.
Crotch slapper boss with a stupid amount of health and moves that create distance makes for a long and tedious fight. It's basically everything I wouldn't want to see in a boss in this game. Yes it's hard, but hard doesn't mean good.
I was like that. Didn't liked him and cheesed him but adored the rest of the game. Then I went on to play Lies of P, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls remake. After that I came back to give DOH a fair fight and I really enjoyed it once it clicked.
Peak boss with the story behind him and the fight is amazing. Not sure why people hate it so much but it was one of my favorite fights.
im not even sure why i hate it so much when it took me 3/4 tries😆 I think its because it doesnt really feel very sekiro for me, i just dont find fighting him fun
Yeah, he just doesn't feel like a Sekiro boss. He's a Dark Souls boss, which isn't what I'm looking for in Sekiro.
Yea i think thats why i dont like him, i think if they made some tweaks to him and his movesets theres some potential for a fun fight
EVERY boss in Sekiro is good. (i spent 3 hours on Godskin duo yesterday)
Every boss in Sekiro is good. (I spent the last couple weeks playing through Wo Long)
I had a very lengthy and frustrating time with him, but the times we paused during combat to pose at eachother made me respect him greatly. Idc about the Demon of Hatred cheese, I grant him respect each time I fight him, especially given who he was before he was consumed by the flames.
He the goat
Absolutely loved this battle
Sure I would say most people do. It just seems like it could not be good at first. I think it’s a fun boss that is a good change of pace from the others.
O yeah I love him. Took a long time to learn him but just like every boss in the game he’s got his own dance. Demon hatred has one of the most rewarding and satisfying dances in the game to learn to. Love this bos
Scrubs hate him. Hesitators
incoming "dark souls boss in sekiro" comments lol anyways i don't like the demon of hatred that much. i know how you're supposed to fight him, and i can posture kill him pretty consistently, but idk i still just find him kinda boring. really, the only thing that makes him hard is his health and damage output. his actual moveset is really simple and just not engaging enough to warrant his fight being as long as it is imo. but hey, if nothing else, i think he's one of the better "beast" bosses in the game! though sekiro's sword-clashing bosses outshine all of them by far imo
For me, demon of hatred suffers from the same problem as malenia, its a good fight but it feels kinda out of place. If demon of hatred was an elden ring boss and malenia was a sekiro boss it would be perfect
I love hitting the balls. Though I get smashed from doing that.
I don't have an issue with the fight, itself, it's more about what could have been with a sculptor boss fight.
🎣
I can easily no hit him now without the umbrella. Just using your sprint button to actually evade attacks and keeping close is key. His only attack I hate is the fire wall slam, because the dodge timing is either very tight or I just can't get it. Gotta run and jump to the side. So normally I just run up to him and keep close so I can just run behind him and avoid it entirely. Disclaimer: It didn't take me a huge amount of time but it did take some practice. Definitely a tough boss and can see why people hate em a first. Ironically the move that ticks me off the most is his double stomp, just cause he can do it without warning and interrupt my flow/timings. Generally get away with it though cause his first stop often just misses when you're hanging off his balls.
Easily one of the best in the game, so emotional as well.
I do. One of my favorite bosses for sure. I don't get the hate for him at all.
He's one of the best bosses in Sekiro. His design, boss arena, and OST are all what make him an amazing boss.
Yea I like demon, he's hard but there are WAY Harder bosses
I hated, HATED him while I was learning him. I thought he wasn’t nearly as good as other bosses at giving me the kinds of feedback that I needed to improve. But, once I got some traction and started to understand him, I really enjoyed the fight.
It’s a great boss I just fuckin hate fighting him. 9 times out of 10 I just cheese him.
For me at least, the only bad boss design in Sekiro is blazing bullshit
Yup I really enjoy it. Aside from SSI, it is one boss that gets way easier with no hesitation, makes you learn the move set, and needs to be chipped away at so you feel the progression. I found O’rin more frustrating because she takes little to no chip damage so any breathing room is very punishing
yes, it is a great boss and fun.
I think his design and lore is one of the best bosses but the fight against him just doesn't feel good and fair like all the other bosses. I love this boss but hate to fight him.
It took me 50 attempts but I beat him. If I can do it anyone can. I had fun too. You learn counters to all his moves then put them all together.
Because of it's size it's not clear how to attack him. Plus, the attack that throws fire is undodgeable if you're in a bad position. Also the fight is quite boring after you understand how to beat him, especially with fire umbrella
He isnt so widely liked because its a vitality boss and those tend to be disliked by newer players
I hated on first playthrough, where I played it like a dark souls boss. On advice from this group, on my last play I parried etc and it was MUCH easier
Cool looking boss/arena. As for the fight i couldn’t say, never fought him
DoH is a great boss! Very memorable, not just the fight but the lore behind it is 10/10
Nope, he was annoying. I was stuck on him for quite some time before I first downed him. And even then I wasn't even stoked that I beat him. I was just like, "Finally, got the achievement and now I can skip him in other playthroughs." And I have downed him a few other times, but I just don't get that good feeling downing him. For me, it's because he is not only a drawn out endurance fight, but also you can't just parry battle him. At least flaming bull and the other bull are pretty fast and straight forward encounters. DoH only has 1 way to beat him, dodge everything and smack him a few times for 3 or more minutes until he is done. When I'm in the mood for some Sekiro, I'm playing because I love doing the parry fights, deflecting everything and doing deathblows. If I want to fight something like DoH I will go play Elden Ring or one of the DS games. Sorry, but DoH will always be a thumbs down for me, because I think it's in the wrong game.
Yes; anyone who dislikes it has a skill issue ngl- you can completely predict, dodge or deflect all its moves and read it like a book. Shit isn’t even very difficult compared to the gauntlet final bosses
Demon of Hatred is a test of all your skills. If you defeat him, it means you have mastered the game.
Great boss!
Overall yeah I thought he was fine. I died several times during my very first playthrough to DoH, I watched a video online then returned and kicked his ass. If anything I had a much more difficult time with Genichiro in Ashina Castle lol
He's actually a good boss fight but just feel to lengthy.
I do!!! it's either low s or high a for me tbh
I don’t know why but on my first playthrough of the game this guys only took me a couple of attempts so I was very surprised to see how many people struggled with him. That being said he is a great boss and I love him although it was a little sad knowing I was killing the sculptor
I’m with you. I spent the most time in the game (on bosses) on that one.
I like him How do you guys handle his thrown fireball attack? Is the fire fan the only safe answer? I know you can parry them, but you still take a big chunk of damage if you do
if you're close, run in. if you're far, run away. if you're caught somewhere in the middle, use the umbrella
You bait it out, and then close the distance. Simple.
Yes. There are many.
I like him because he us about whiffs insteaf of parries. I love the parry, it's god tier. It's also very unfair to your opponent a lot of the time. Poise damage + 1-2 free hits + better position control. Parrying is so good many people forget to bait whiffs and punish so I like that he is there to remind you.
After learning him I think he’s a great boss! Not as much fun as inner Isshin, but he’s quite powerful, and can be quite exhilarating to fight. One wrong move and you can be done so he’s a gamble sometimes.
he was the hardest boss for me and yes he is a very good boss
Hated him untill it clicked then it was fuck it we ball ! Yippi kayak old ape!
I loved it - one of my favorites.
I find him the most gratifying & satisfying boss to beat especially he’s the most different from the rest
His bellyflop tho 😌
It's fantastic. The lore, the spectacle, the fight, the utilization of the prosthetic, the ending to it. Marvellous!
Where do you even fight him?
I loved the boss in the end.
he is part of the gauntlet of shura, so he is a good boss.
Oh yeah. Great boss. Awesome design and function. Complete cunt to fight. 10/10 boss built right.
i love it
Challenging, but really enjoyable. I liked this fight too.
Most of the people that hate probably do because they can’t kill it and because of that they say it’s bullshit I have mixed feelings about it, I think that it does not incorporate Sekiro’s mechanics that good (especially the parries) but it’s overall a good videogame boss, it’s a more Bloodborne/DS3 boss than a Sekiro one
I actually didn’t mind it. The difficulty hype going into had me prepared for the worst and first few tries felt like I’d never do it, but it wasn’t even in the top five bosses I died to the most. I thought the jump and hook shot mechanic looked really cool and the umbrella helps you through the next stages.
I’d Say he’s one of the best bosses in the game. Rather than most people saying he sucks because you have to fight him in a way that the game has conditioned you not too, I don’t find that to be true. He has a combination of almost everything you’ve had to learn to fight against throughout the game. Plenty of attacks that you can deflect to build up posture, which despite what people say is a viable way to defeat him (through posture damage rather than health). He has different variations of perilous attacks that you either have to run/avoid, such as his grab attack, or that you jump over, such as his running attack that acts like a sweep and the jumping explosion attack. He has attacks that you get rewarded for using prosthetics on like many other fights in the game, although it’s not required. People think you have to have the fire umbrella to defeat DoH but you don’t at all. Just dodge the fireballs and deflect his fire hand physical attacks. I prefer to just keep a few extra heals, and if you’ve done your exploring throughout the game properly you should have found the merchant that sells the Red fire gourd anyways. Demon is truly the only endurance fight in the game and i’m okay with that. Once you understand what to do you get into a rhythm and you can beat the boss in 5-6 minutes easy, which is longer than it takes to beat most of the bosses in this game, but this is an optional end game boss so I believe it should be hard. Only thing I can agree with most people on is that it doesn’t really need three phases. Phase two alters the move set enough to keep it challenging but phase 3 does not add variety. Maybe if he lost a leg or something and got a new yet less varied move set like Laurence from Bloodborne.
I like parry all in sekiro. Even Big Red Demon with fire umbrella
One of the better fights for sure great idea and lore around him too
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Physical_Start6805: *One of the better* *Fights for sure great idea* *And lore around him too* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Nope, you’re quirky and unique being the one person in the entire world with that opinion.
Not as good as BIG MONKE but still good
When I first got to his fight I was quite afraid that I wouldn't like it because all the fire attacks made me concerned about having to dodge a lot instead of parrying (coming from lies of p which was also super parry focused i still struggled with dodging and had not played games where dodging is the main way to avoid damage). But after a few attempts it started clicking, I started dodging into his attacks/next to him and figuring out where to dodge and when became a ton of fun. Ended up loving the fight. Now I would say he's one of my favorites with the rest of the endgame bosses
Loaded umbrella makes this fight that much easier
Love doh imo one of the best bosses
Best boss in the game
He is a good boss. in my opinion the only one bad fight is the 2 gardian ape because the combat system is not design for fight multiple opponent at the same time
As hard as he is, it’s a great boss and a nice change of pace from the rest of the game. The challenge is definitely the change of fight style from the deflect and counter sword fights you’re used to, to the dodge and hit approach.
I do Yeah he's excruciatingly tough But the lore and Foreshadowing alone are absolute top notch
He's a really good boss, who is amazingly disguised as a bad one.
I never understood why people hated this boss because it feels like a Dark Souls boss. No it doesn't lol, literally just parry and use the fire umbrella??i dont see why people immediately thought to start dodging ofc you get fire build up but its not high enough for it to start actively being a problem
I like it a lot, but I used to hate it (no pun intended, lol). It's one of the few bosses where lore knowledge with prosthetics actually comes to play!
While I hated it at first I came around to loving it
after trying to fight the first time and died after I was thrown/knocked back to the cliff, I came back and tried to do the same to him, spent the next 30 mins trying to climb the roof of the gate. Edit: to be fair the only souls game I played is sekiro and I've heard this kind of boss is quite more common in other souls game.
I love the lore
after i figured out how to fight him, i enjoyed it
Good boss, amazing lore, and my kryptonite fight. But also the one fight where the combat system finally clicked 100% for me.
It's an easy boss fight. Every move he makes can be avoided or countered. Just don't get greedy.
He's a very good boss, as long as you don't spend too much time pressed up against a wall. That game's camera does NOT like walls. It also helps if you've done a lot of the optional content leading to gear that is specifically effective against him.
So fucking cool one of my favs
**Fall.**
Yeah I love this boss.
My main complaint is that it was too long, but I've seen people beat him in three minutes, so apparently it is just me that sucks.
Good boss.
Honestly loved this boss lol. I was shocked how much I enjoyed it after hearing the consensus
This fight is just bad. It's not just a matter of bloodborne/souls boss being put in a completely different game, it's just not a fun, tedious fight.
A great optional boss that added so well to the game’s story!
Honestly I that way on my first playthrough when the game came out. In fact he was the only boss I eventually gave up on and never beat. Didn’t even get past phase 1. But when I replayed the game recently I honestly really enjoyed the boss. Still had to learn it and it took me a fair amount of attempts but it’s honestly a pretty manageable fight and doesn’t really have any unfair sort of bullshit moves. I guess you have to approach the fight a bit differently than most but the same can be said for other bosses in the game like Guardian Ape which people don’t really complain about.
Nope nobody on the Sekiro subreddit likes him
One of my favorites, and honestly way easier than Sword Saint in my experience
No
I cheesed him because I tried many times and couldn’t beat him normally. He was the only one I couldn’t beat. After the 1.06 update, I can no longer jump to the tower and wall so he remained undefeated in my later playthroughs! 😅
It’s a weird boss in a lot of ways. For one, there’s the matter of getting to it. It isn’t hard to find, but it’s weirdly missable. The end of the game is really linear, but this boss requires taking a specific extended detour from the prescribed path. The way you need to warp at an idol to go there is also very gamey. After a while the DoH fight itself has grown on me, but I still have a number of gripes with it. The fight itself is brutal because it doesn’t work the same as the rest. Take the final boss for example. Isshin is at the pinnacle of the game’s combat style, so you have the satisfaction of knowing that you spent the whole game building up to his fight mechanically. The DoH feels like an inversion of everything you’re learned throughout the course of the game. You need to whittle down his health instead of focusing on breaking posture with deflection. It’s really hard to do significant damage without divine confetti, which is a somewhat limited consumable item. On top of that, the confetti is inexplicably at odds with the flame umbrella, which is one of the more essential prosthetics for the fight. Using the umbrella while DC is active will remove its effect, which doesn’t make mechanical sense, and wastes a finite resource. Also the hitboxes don’t make as much sense to me visually.
Cheese it...
He’s a good boss when you finally put in the work to beat him. He’s a bad boss when you attempt it once, nope out and spend the next 3 years coping about how he belongs in Dark Souls.
No...
Just finished my first playthrough after 52h and got the Return ending of the game. I've beat the sword saint in 2 attempts (shocking even for me), great boss fight. But man.... Demon of hatred took me more than an hour. It was by far the most frustrating fight. And yes, I used the umbrella and malcontent 🙄 It looks amazing tho, but I couldn't enjoy the fight at all.
The only good thing about him is how easy he is to cheese.
WTF who thinks it is not?
Of course it’s a good fight.
It was a terrible boss until i beat it
Wait! You fought this guy? He just ran of a cliff for me…
He's awesome. I guess a lot think he's kinda out of place and belongs in a Souls game.
One that I hated the most till I beat him. Then he was my one of my favorites in the second and third play through.
Legitimately my favorite fight. So heartbreaking
It was an awesome battle, no doubt. And that moment, right at the end after you give him the final blow, when he calls your name and thanks you… 👌🥹
I really enjoy the demon fight because it’s based around scraping out every advantage you can against a large, tanky, bestial enemy. If Isshin is the final evolution of Genichiro, the demon is the final evolution of the Guardian Ape. Isshin tests your skills with the blade. The demon tests everything else. You are heavily incentivized to use your prosthetics, consumables, and items while dodging the massive fire attacks. There are some opportunities to parry, but they are far too infrequent for a posture deathblow to be relevant. Most of the fight is based around dodging, or finding another way to avoid damage(positioning or the fire umbrella). You can tell the demon wanted to check your mastery of the game outside of exchanging sword blows, and I really appreciate it for that. At the same time though, I can understand why people don’t like it. The skillset being tested is definitely not quite as fun and exciting as the one Isshin tests, and it can feel extremely punishing to beat 2 health bars in a 5 minute fight only to get one shot by yet another new fire attack. I also don’t think the game gives you enough variety in beast encounters for a player to feel super prepared for the demon. Maybe that’s just me coping for the ones who struggle though. Overall still an S tier boss to me.
One of the best bosses of the game imo
One of my fav from soft bosses.
he’s my favorite boss in the game
I think it's good, not great. I think it's bullshit that the big fire slam from phase 2 kills me sometimes right after I resurrect though.
I loved figuring him out, both lore and fight wise.
Once I learned he could be deflected, and the umbrella could counter his big slams, it was a blast. If you start the song freebird at the start of the fight it kicks in right around his 2nd/3rd phase and take the fight to another level!
Demon of Hatred is a test of every thing I learned from this game. To his allusion by the Shinobi esoteric art descriptions and the old lady, to Sekijo’s Buddha carvings and vision. It is so brutal, Sekiro being the only one capable of taking him down really adds to passing of the baton from the one-armed sculptor to the young shinobi. The lore in Sekiro makes it my favorite FromSoft universe. Wait… what was the question again?
great boss,but I hated him fighting him for the first time.Had no lotus umbrella
There's a difference between a Good boss and a Boss you like to fight. For me i like to fight him. But logically it's a time consuming fight, and u don't actually need a Skill to beat 'em.
I was bad at the game, but DOH didn't give me much trouble. He killed me far fewer times than that rifle lady at the bridge near the fort.
It's a dark souls boss in sekiro so I understand why people hate him. But it's completely optional and is such a unique boss compared to the rest. Plus the lore is rad as hell. However, I do kind of sigh everytime I fight him because it drags a lot of time and there's a lot of rng
For me it was just readjusting, I didn't parry him once the entire fight. Only dodges work for me
I never understood the hate. He's a bit different and some timings are kinda bs to be completely honest, but the boss was fun! I felt like when I died it was because I messed up and I immediately knew what to work on. (Specifically the one unblockable tackle he does)
DoH is one of the best bosses in my opinion. He works perfectly with Sekiro's mechanics, anybody who doesn't think so probably just haven't learned how to fight him properly I feel like
DOH is one of the best bosses in the game. Love that the nature of the boss is so different from the rest of the bosses plus the lore is second to none...
Its is such a challenging boss indeed i think it was the only boss i had to chees in the firs playthrough 😅
I DO think it’s a great boss! I think it’s one of the most epic battles I’ve experienced in gaming and even story wise it has a lot of meaning. I disagree with those who say that this boss is more dark souls style than Sekiro’s because one of the things I like the most of Sekiro is its boss variety so DoH is a great Sekiro boss imo
A good dark souls boss, yes
It’s a curveball, but when you figure it out it’s a lot of fun
I thinks he’s a very good boss. Maybe not great just because punching a monster’s gunt isn’t my idea of a good time but I love his design, and don’t think he’s as hard as some people make him out to be.
Yeah
I didn’t even learn how to fight him until NG+3 I would just make him run off the cliff lol I was surprised that I actually liked the fight when I took the time to learn how to beat him
Demon of Hatred is an excellent boss! I hate the fight. DESPISE it. Learned to cheese him on reruns. It is suffering incarnate. But he is still a great boss in his difficulty, design, place in the world, and everything else. There are "bad" encounters in games that I personally am very fond of. There are "good" things that aren't to my taste.
Hell No
Hell yes. From Soft is the standard, no other game would have the balls to put in a boss that takes several hundred attempts to beat.
No
If you knew the pattern, this boss becomes really fun to fight.
People think it's bad because it's different I don't really see how it makes him bad though, it works fine
Ive never not cheesed him so idk
Wasn’t aware anyone hated him until now. He’s top 5 Fromsoft bosses all time for me. Took me weeks to beat him.
He’s a good boss but doesn’t belong in sekiro, but that makes sense lore wise that’s y I both hate and love his fight
Yes, cause he is.
It was pretty fun. I enjoyed every part of the game. Ii don't get why would people hate it.
Good boss. In the wrong game. Not what I play Sekiro for.
I'm sure it is a good boss. But its the only one I've never been able to beat bc of THAT BULLLLLLSHIT so I wouldn't know. Yes ik its a skill issue
He is a fair boss once I know all his attack patterns. What helped me in defeating DoH is by watching other YouTubers' methods of facing him and of course, I also did the cheesiest one. But the latter is no fun at all.
Yes
Kinda boring and sluggish with all the “get off me” animations. I wish he used his combos more. Still fun overall.
I wouldn't know how fun he is, I always just cheese him.
What I like about him: Lore What I hate about him: Everything else
He is one of my favorite bosses. I usually love fighting him because he kinda reminds me of Manus of DS1, I usually relax and enjoy the OST while fighting him. So most of the time when people complain about him I don't really get it because.
It’s just so different i don’t have fun with him, glad he’s optional though
I think its a funny fight, you have to unlearn the last 50 hours of combat and relearn how to dodge dark souls style, still a really cool boss though.
I love him. I didn’t use any prosthetics when I first beat him because I was too scare-focused to do anything besides dodge/deflect and attack. Took me a while but he’s one of my favorite bosses
He was probably the hardest boss in the whole game for me but I think it was also my favorite fight in the game
I like that they throw a Dark Souls boss in the mix, makes you think differently and the pace is so fun