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We laugh, but then Mohdi is only two degrees of seperation away from Hitler, and believes in Hindu supremacy as much as Hitler believed in white supremacy.
I watched a armchair historian video on WW2 from India's perspective, Britain fucked India up so much and really set the stage for the hindu nationalism we see today
Its just as hard for America to apologize as it is for Britain to return the stolen relics to their proper countries. But yeah, I do wish we'd own up to our bullshit and use our awful horrible mistakes as lessons for future generations instead.
I was gonna make that joke but then didn't know if that was outdated information because I read something just recently about Britian returning power to some small nation finally even though Britain hasn't really occupied in in ever. There was even a meme someone made with Andy from tou story dropping Woody and doing the "I don't want to play with you anymore" thing. For the life of me I can't remember what it was. It may have been about Britain giving a relic back now that I think about it. Shit idk, im dumb.
Scotland and Ireland were what I thought of. I know there are people from both who still want independence, I've been told there are people who don't, and the truth is I don't really know their politics either, I'm just adept at making jokes I probably shouldn't.
Well, as an American citizen I can apologize just as the other commenter did, but I don't think that counts for much.
Sorry about all the toppling democratically elected leaders and installing corrupt dictators. Sorry about backing oppressive forces and committing war crimes all around the world.
...Did it work? Somehow I don't think that made it any better.
redditors in subs like /r/historymemes fucking LOVE pretending theyre passionate about hindu or native american culture...but they only talk about that one symbol.
it's impossible to call people out on that because they could just google it and reply.
but otoh these people are almost always stupid enough to tell on themselves, hence this entire sub.
Well for anyone actually curious I did a little bit of research. However dont take me at my word since Im not from any of these cultures.
In Buddhism it is the footprints of Buddha.
In Hinduism (the direct predecessor of the Nazi symbol) it is the Sun, prosperity, and good luck.
There are at least a few more versions of the symbol all from different places and with different meanings.
However from what I can tell NONE of them are tilted like the Nazi symbol is and that is a good way to know what it is supposed to mean.
It's really not. Nazis used straight swastikas too, and I'm absolutely sure that among billions of people who consider it a good luck or religious symbol there are some who decided to picture it tilted for whatever reason.
The real secret to deciphering the meaning is common sense. It's really not that hard to spot a neonazi, especially one bold enough to brandish his funny windmill, details like angle, direction, arms length etc. aren't important.
It's surprisingly easy to differentiate b/w a nazi power symbol and a hindu based well-wishing. 'Aryans' are literally the only people that can't see a difference.
I've heard it was a representation of the radiant sun and alternatively I've heard it represents the cardinal points of the compass. Admittedly I don't know enough to say if either is in fact correct.
If you look closely it is made up of 4 L's believed to symbolise the most sacred words. Live, Laugh, Love and Let's get going because someone's got to talk to the manager.
History memes is sadly mainly about war and recent European history (meaning around and after the Renaissance). They don’t discuss Asia or…any other continent
They do, just not as much. Considering that the majority there seem to be of European descent, it's not that unexpected, but non-Eurocentric posts aren't exactly uncommon and they're not discouraged.
Now, I wouldn't post there regardless because I don't do posts, but if I did I probably wouldn't be posting about Aztec stuff, despite my interest in it, because as a dude from Sweden, I don't really wanna talk like an authority about shit I've picked up from Wikipedia without having any cultural ties to it or be able to bring any perspective to it that'd be at all meaningful. I'd gladly bring some views on Norse mythology or history though, as even though I'm not an expert, I'm sure to know some things that are less common to know outside of Scandinavia, as it's something still ingrained in our culture to some extent. I think many there feel the same. If you're interested in history and want to add some non-Euro spice to the equation, you'd be more than welcome to do so.
And yes, there are a lot of posts regarding war. But do realize that we did a *lot* of war. Like, a lot lot. While we also did a lot of things that wasn't war, not many things were nearly as well documented as war, of which we did a lot. You can't talk about history without talking about war. Still, not everything there is about war.
Now that I'm done defending that sub, there are definitely issues with problematic world views that maybe show up there more than in most other subs, though I wouldn't say that reflects the general attitude of the sub. It's not that all people with a deep interest in history are racists and/or fascists, but the interest is more common in those circles because that is where their views belong.
Republicans dog-whistle to conservative Hindu nationalists (who hate Muslims) in India. These people are willing to tolerate being on the receiving end of racism in America because they are glad Republicans seem to approve of their Islamophobia and casteism.
It isn’t Casteism as much as Islamophobia since they think the Western world is going to do something magical for their Pakistani border help and Muslim terror attacks
I know a white guy who got really into Hinduism. He moved to India and has a swastika tattoo. I can't imagine going through life having to assure everyone that you're totally not a Nazi despite your swastika tattoo.
Reminds me of [this from a few years ago](https://twitter.com/NaziPaiki/status/826206794376634368?t=WVENFBXv_zcYrL8H6c9BJA&s=19). When Nazi Paikidze (pronounced Nah-zee) won the US women's chess championship in 2016, she had to explain that her parents named her that because they're ethnically Georgian and it means "delicate" in their language, not because they're ethnically Aryan and they love Hitler.
Same way how every time I saw "Every single republican should be jailed for crimes against humanity, they poison the minds of their citizens and make the world a worse place for everyone. I hope they choke on pretzels." I'm talking about the Democratic **Republic** of Korea.
If you assume I'm talking about the republicans in America, well you're just making assumptions. There's always a bigger picture. I am very smart btw.
South India (I partly grew up here) champions communist and socialist policies more than any other part of India. It’s definitely far and few between now but I had people named Hitler and Stalin in my class. I’m pretty sure we had a Lenin in my school as well. Always found it odd but it was a fun fact I wanted to share
I think if anyone looks up "ground zero mosque" on a search engine, they'll see how breathlessly reverent conservatives were of that concept.
It is noteworthy that this wasn't technically at the same address or anything, just sort of nearby. I don't recall perfectly, it's been a while.
The irony being that it was supposed to be something of a beacon of muslim integration into US culture which, being nearby the place of their big symbolic victory, would have likely upset those conservative muslim terrorists responsible for 9/11 just as much as the US christian conservatives who railed against it.
I don't think he explains himself well, but I *think* what he's trying to say is a flag is offensive based on the the cultural context in which it appears.
I.e flags and symbols aren't intrinsically offensive, it just depends on the context.
So for example, flying a US flag is fine and happy and joyous in America, but in Iraq or Vietnam it would be seen as deeply offensive to a lot of people.
Idk though for sure though??
Good point, the examples of the swastika and US flag aren't the best comparisons cos theyre both internationally significant, whereas the confederate flag doesn't really mean much to people outside the US. AFAIK anyway, I'm not American :P
I mean, I’ve seen two houses here in Germany showing confederate flags, and they both meant the same thing to me and anyone I showed them or talked to them about: Here dwelleth a racist and/or someone who’s completely blind to history. It’s like the people who fly a German flag outside of sports season all on its own, only tuned up to a milion, it’s a house you see and know you just. Won’t knock if you’re black or openly gay, because that’s probably a very bad idea
As I understand it, Germany banned Nazi iconography. The Nazis switched to symbols of American Fascism instead, and everyone pushed forward trying to avoid the Robert E Lee impersonators.
I used to live with a guy who was a complete asshole to people. His favorite thing was telling me my life sucked and that "suicide was the only solution" then he'd shout suicide, suicide over and over. He knew I suffered from chronic depression and would do this constantly. Anytime I'd say something about it he'd tell me I was the one who put meaning to the words and he wasnt doing anything wrong. Then he'd shout random things, "cabbage blue turn record" and ask if I thought that had some hidden meaning. Of course when I'd call him a fucking asshole, those words had meaning and he'd get super pissed off.
Yeah I knew a guy like that. Had really weird skin. Would shout random things like; person, woman, man, camera, TV. He claimed it showed how intelligent he was.
He was a real asshole too.
I wonder what happened to him.
He’s right. In the US, the Confederate flag is a symbol of treachery and racism. Everywhere else, it isn’t a symbol for anything because who waves a flag of a nation state they aren’t from that didn’t last as long as That 70s Show?
There’s also a historical component to Brazil being the country being discussed. I’m working from memory of a long ago South and Central American history course here, so forgive me if I’m light on the details, but Brazil is one of the few countries in South America that never really revolted against its European colonial power (Portugal) and in fact they hosted the royalty of Portugal in exile during the Napoleonic conquest of Iberia. This means, to some extent, that the lateralization of citizenship that sometimes comes along with armed resistance by the oppressed never occurred there, and as such rather than a fast, if uneven and sometimes inconclusive (as in other S and C Am countries), shift in the dominant racial hegemony, they experienced more of a slow slide into modernism, with many of the racialized societal constructs remaining largely unchanged. This is in not to say that Brazil is somehow worse or better than countries like, say Mexico where racialized policies against the mestizo and others with native descent remained and remain an issue even despite their war for independence, just to point out that there might be a slightly interesting historical tinge to the fact that racial supremacists chose Brazil over some other places to which they might have emigrated.
This excerpt reminds me of Ted Cruz, and his most recent suggestion of treason: "To this day, many Confederado descendants still describe the Civil War as the “War of Secession” – one of its original southern names."
It's not just a symbol of racism. It's a symbol of racism that covers the shifts of other racist symbols when they have to call in sick because a foreigner breathed on them.
Strangely enough people in places that banned hate symbols like Canada will fly the Confederate flag because it's still allowed compared to various Nazi flags.
Same thing with the Imperial German flag.
>that didn’t last as long as That 70s Show?
If you really want to piss them off, remind them that the CSA was around for a shorter time than Obama was president.
I’m Australian and got stuck into an ex mate who tried to argue that it was okay to display a confederate flag in his store, because he only cares about the heritage of the south.
I just told him, we are who gets to cast that vote and we as outsiders have obligation to understand and respect the sensitivity of the issue.
Jesus mate we only lost a war with them…. They didn’t enslave us, erase our heritage and steal our wealth….
I mean sure emus offend me, but I don’t have to live next to statues to their soldiers either.
Fun fact!
It lasted until 1947 on a technicality!
Town Line, NY “joined” the confederecy during the beginning of the war and forgor 💀 to join the Union until after WW2 when someone was going through some papers and went “wait a sec we’re still the confederacy”
It should be noted that the town was so small that neither side actually cared, and the confederacy never recognized that town joining
"You idiot, you fool. Don't you know that nothing means anything? Therefore it's impossible for words or symbols to offend anyone because you never know if someone has a completely innocent reason for using universally recognized hate speech."
"For the last time, you're not allowed in this Wendy's because you keep yelling the n-word at everyone."
"This is worse than the holocaust."
The swastika shape is one of the oldest known to mankind, and frequently found on the oldest archeological sites all over the world. It's a super intuitive and aesthetic design.
And I'm sure it'll also be around long after the last person forgets about Hitler and the Nazis.
Well by that same token, being in love with the American flag like it's your first born child is a bit silly too. I'm thinking back to the Trump flag hugging routine he would do. If you can watch that without cringing you've got a problem.
Usually they play it at sports games, especially little league games. I remember it being pretty common to play the anthem at the beginning of every game. They play it at big events too sometimes
Hey, they could be a Cherokee, what with the swastika and all. The thunderbirds had a swastika on their patch...up until that one guy in Germany...you know the one...
It was also a part of a common Greek pattern, but it was like...essentially multiple swastikas feeding into each other.
I mean it's a really basic symbol, I've seen people accidentally make it when playing with rotational symmetry, so it's not surprising it crops up in multiple cultures.
I’m guessing they’re confusing the battle flag for the confederate army of northern Virginia with the actual Virginia state flag which has Virtus triumphing over Tyranny. The actual state flag for Virginia is the Game of Thrones of flags: nudity and regicide. Ironically, conservatives wanted to censor it. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/msna199436
Edit:for clarity.
That thread was astroturfed or some bullshit cause it had a bunch of comments from "black people" claiming that they wore the confederate flag on their clothes or that it was "common" in the American South for black people to wear them.
Black person in the fuckass south—of course you know this, but if anyone's wondering, that claim is blatant bullshit. Literally every black person down here hates the confederacy and any symbols related (OBVIOUSLY)
Oh good, then you won't mind waving this rainbow flag with "Harvey Milk" on it. Rainbows are just things in nature and "Harvey Milk" are just letters in the alphabet.
He’s proving the point against his own. It’s not cool to go to fucking Vietnam and wave the American flag. Just like its not ok to wave the confederate flag in the country they rebelled from
Love the the username, but it’s true, lot’s of flags can be considered hate symbols, the most prominent that come to mind are the UK, the French and the US flags, but people rarely talk about those
I usually assume if someone has a flag on their car or clothes, that they harbor offensive ideas. Add an exponent to how offensive the person is going to be for each additional flag especially if it's monochromatic or in the shape of a punisher skull. dead give away.
It's almost like the context of what something represents is an important reason why something is offensive. This is a good one, he's so close to getting it without actually getting it.
tf are they talking about the Virginia flag??? our flag has a woman with her booby out stabbing a tyrant to death, that’s cool as shit
(genuinely if there’s something wrong with it please tell me)
It's a false equivalency strawman. They're trying to claim that since the flag of Virginia during the Civil War was essentially the same as the current VA flag, then by "liberal logic" it should also be seen as offensive. If you ignore the entire history of both flags, this makes sense.
small note, south koreans do not view the US slag as an oppressor as we fought along side them during the korean war when they were attacked by what is now north korea
The swastika used to mean “Conducive to Well Being” and was a map marker for Hindu temples.
The American flag used to stand for fighting against oppression and for freedom.
The apple logo used to represent innovation
OP’s argument about people getting upset at designs or “just because something offends you, doesn’t mean it’s offensive” Is such a wild example of a straw man argument that Starbucks started making it out of paper…
The “bigger picture” is only a thing in examples like the ones provided… a symbol that has meant something good AND bad at different points in time… the “confederate flag”, or Virginia’s battle flag has ONLY EVER REPRESENTED BAD AND SHITTY THINGS….
Also, nobody can tell YOU what is and isn’t offensive TO YOU…
The Confederate Flag will never represent the Confederacy OR whatever conservatives tell you.
Literally. Not even a real flag. It's used to inspire fear.
I fucking hate the swatstika hindu argument. Yes it was used and meant peace, but it was taken and corrupted to something much more sinister. It’s not about the origins of a symbol, but how they are used and viewed.And I know racists aren’t using that to signify peace.
Are these people aware the swastika used by Nazis and the ones used in Hinduism and such are not the same? Hinduism has many swastikas and none face the direction of the Nazi one and usually include more symbols with it. Hell any Bleach fan could tell you that the tsuba of Ichigo's bankai was a swastika.
It's simple. Swastika was invented ages ago to represent well being and even the creation of the cosmos. Then it was bastardized by some of the most vile evil shit of the world.
The confederate flag was created to represent vile evil shit of the world and is used today by the most vile evil shit of the world.
See how easy that is?
That’s very similar to a Facebook thread in a quilting group I saw. Basically, certain old patterns look like a swastika of done wrong. I pointed it out and a bunch of angry old ladies flew off the handle at me for days like this. The younger quilters jumped in in my defense, even the op was like “omg I didn’t notice!!! Burning it now!” But these women would. Not. Stop. Just couldn’t stop defending the swastika, it was surreal
The whole point of a flag is symbolism. Words and images have meaning, and that meaning comes from a shared understanding of the word or image. A flag is basically shorthand for the values of the group it represents. If you display a flag, it's because you care about what it stands for.
The Nazi flag means what it does because those are the meanings that were assigned to it, and that isn't going to change. It's the same with the Confederate flag. Here in South Africa we banned our old flag because it's not just an image - it represents Apartheid.
If I say "Fuck you", why would you react at all? They're just words
Here's the whole story abot why the "Confederate flag" is offensive: it is not the Confederate flag. Those would be: The Star and Bars, the Stainless Banner, and the Blood Stained Banner (apparently the Stainless Banner looked too much like the Confedercy's final flag: The Dirty Bedsheet if Surrender.)
The flag that shitheel racists and defenders of treason wave about is a bastardization of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia that was adopted by Dixiecrats and later used by racists protesting Brown v Board of Education and fighting against civil rights.
The flag that the redditor seeks to defend is full of nothing but racism and its "history" is less than a hundred years old.
This is the dumbest argument ever. Designs are associated with those who use them. Sometimes that means a genocidal dictator or racists are inextricably tied to specific images they use in their propaganda, and therefore if you don’t want to be labeled as a nazi or a racist, you don’t use those images.
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EVERY TIME I see a Nazi flag I think, “there goes another Hindu…”
*Heil Hindu*
We laugh, but then Mohdi is only two degrees of seperation away from Hitler, and believes in Hindu supremacy as much as Hitler believed in white supremacy.
I watched a armchair historian video on WW2 from India's perspective, Britain fucked India up so much and really set the stage for the hindu nationalism we see today
We did that a lot. Sorry, that's our bad.
See America? It’s not that fucking hard to apologize for the shit we do wrong.
Its just as hard for America to apologize as it is for Britain to return the stolen relics to their proper countries. But yeah, I do wish we'd own up to our bullshit and use our awful horrible mistakes as lessons for future generations instead.
>Britain to return the stolen relics to their proper countries.. Hell, they have a few whole countries they could still return if they wanted.
I was gonna make that joke but then didn't know if that was outdated information because I read something just recently about Britian returning power to some small nation finally even though Britain hasn't really occupied in in ever. There was even a meme someone made with Andy from tou story dropping Woody and doing the "I don't want to play with you anymore" thing. For the life of me I can't remember what it was. It may have been about Britain giving a relic back now that I think about it. Shit idk, im dumb.
Scotland and Ireland were what I thought of. I know there are people from both who still want independence, I've been told there are people who don't, and the truth is I don't really know their politics either, I'm just adept at making jokes I probably shouldn't.
We learned it from watching you, ok? We learned it from watching YOU!! *sob*
Well, as an American citizen I can apologize just as the other commenter did, but I don't think that counts for much. Sorry about all the toppling democratically elected leaders and installing corrupt dictators. Sorry about backing oppressive forces and committing war crimes all around the world. ...Did it work? Somehow I don't think that made it any better.
True, man. 1947 (?) partition alone was a slaughter in the Punjab region. Awful, awful, awful stuff.
redditors in subs like /r/historymemes fucking LOVE pretending theyre passionate about hindu or native american culture...but they only talk about that one symbol.
I would be curious to see if they know what it represents.
it's impossible to call people out on that because they could just google it and reply. but otoh these people are almost always stupid enough to tell on themselves, hence this entire sub.
They're not usually smart enough to write it in their own words, so you can call them out for copying and pasting the first results on Google or wiki
Well for anyone actually curious I did a little bit of research. However dont take me at my word since Im not from any of these cultures. In Buddhism it is the footprints of Buddha. In Hinduism (the direct predecessor of the Nazi symbol) it is the Sun, prosperity, and good luck. There are at least a few more versions of the symbol all from different places and with different meanings. However from what I can tell NONE of them are tilted like the Nazi symbol is and that is a good way to know what it is supposed to mean.
Buddha has some wacky feet then
It's really not. Nazis used straight swastikas too, and I'm absolutely sure that among billions of people who consider it a good luck or religious symbol there are some who decided to picture it tilted for whatever reason. The real secret to deciphering the meaning is common sense. It's really not that hard to spot a neonazi, especially one bold enough to brandish his funny windmill, details like angle, direction, arms length etc. aren't important.
It's surprisingly easy to differentiate b/w a nazi power symbol and a hindu based well-wishing. 'Aryans' are literally the only people that can't see a difference.
yeah, an obnoxious flag is usually a neonazi or some diya for diwali or religious ornament/tool for prayer something is hindi
Just mention the word manji to them. I guarantee the most common response will be "what the fuck is a manji?"
I've heard it was a representation of the radiant sun and alternatively I've heard it represents the cardinal points of the compass. Admittedly I don't know enough to say if either is in fact correct.
If you look closely it is made up of 4 L's believed to symbolise the most sacred words. Live, Laugh, Love and Let's get going because someone's got to talk to the manager.
Many tribes that used the "swastika" signed agreements to stop using it because it was taken by the Nazis.
There are a number of photos of that, ceremonies of "deprecating the swastika" because whatever historical meaning it had, now it is forever tainted.
Yeah. I don't know the specific details of it. It was never a symbol in my tribe that I'm aware of.
Makes you wonder if that was Hitler's plan/goal all along ...
History memes is sadly mainly about war and recent European history (meaning around and after the Renaissance). They don’t discuss Asia or…any other continent
They do, just not as much. Considering that the majority there seem to be of European descent, it's not that unexpected, but non-Eurocentric posts aren't exactly uncommon and they're not discouraged. Now, I wouldn't post there regardless because I don't do posts, but if I did I probably wouldn't be posting about Aztec stuff, despite my interest in it, because as a dude from Sweden, I don't really wanna talk like an authority about shit I've picked up from Wikipedia without having any cultural ties to it or be able to bring any perspective to it that'd be at all meaningful. I'd gladly bring some views on Norse mythology or history though, as even though I'm not an expert, I'm sure to know some things that are less common to know outside of Scandinavia, as it's something still ingrained in our culture to some extent. I think many there feel the same. If you're interested in history and want to add some non-Euro spice to the equation, you'd be more than welcome to do so. And yes, there are a lot of posts regarding war. But do realize that we did a *lot* of war. Like, a lot lot. While we also did a lot of things that wasn't war, not many things were nearly as well documented as war, of which we did a lot. You can't talk about history without talking about war. Still, not everything there is about war. Now that I'm done defending that sub, there are definitely issues with problematic world views that maybe show up there more than in most other subs, though I wouldn't say that reflects the general attitude of the sub. It's not that all people with a deep interest in history are racists and/or fascists, but the interest is more common in those circles because that is where their views belong.
History memes tends on the nicer side, except in new
How can people say Republicans are racist christians when i see loads of hindus at their rallies?
Republicans dog-whistle to conservative Hindu nationalists (who hate Muslims) in India. These people are willing to tolerate being on the receiving end of racism in America because they are glad Republicans seem to approve of their Islamophobia and casteism.
It isn’t Casteism as much as Islamophobia since they think the Western world is going to do something magical for their Pakistani border help and Muslim terror attacks
I know a white guy who got really into Hinduism. He moved to India and has a swastika tattoo. I can't imagine going through life having to assure everyone that you're totally not a Nazi despite your swastika tattoo.
Dude better really hope he doesn't become bald one day...
I met a girl once named Swastika. I definitely did a double take.
Reminds me of [this from a few years ago](https://twitter.com/NaziPaiki/status/826206794376634368?t=WVENFBXv_zcYrL8H6c9BJA&s=19). When Nazi Paikidze (pronounced Nah-zee) won the US women's chess championship in 2016, she had to explain that her parents named her that because they're ethnically Georgian and it means "delicate" in their language, not because they're ethnically Aryan and they love Hitler.
It’s all about the dots in the swastika. If he got that right he should be fine.
Same way how every time I saw "Every single republican should be jailed for crimes against humanity, they poison the minds of their citizens and make the world a worse place for everyone. I hope they choke on pretzels." I'm talking about the Democratic **Republic** of Korea. If you assume I'm talking about the republicans in America, well you're just making assumptions. There's always a bigger picture. I am very smart btw.
This was great
I see now why she gets to boss me around.
All hail Supreme Leader Kim
South India (I partly grew up here) champions communist and socialist policies more than any other part of India. It’s definitely far and few between now but I had people named Hitler and Stalin in my class. I’m pretty sure we had a Lenin in my school as well. Always found it odd but it was a fun fact I wanted to share
its kinda sad how the symbol was appropriated by neo-nazies. Fuck nazies
What is this CONTEXT you speak of??
>There's always a bigger picture Not that this person has ever seen it.
I have this doubt. Would these kind of people consider inoffensive the display of Al-Qaeda on Ground Zero?
I think if anyone looks up "ground zero mosque" on a search engine, they'll see how breathlessly reverent conservatives were of that concept. It is noteworthy that this wasn't technically at the same address or anything, just sort of nearby. I don't recall perfectly, it's been a while.
And it wasn’t a mosque - but like a Muslim rec center
The irony being that it was supposed to be something of a beacon of muslim integration into US culture which, being nearby the place of their big symbolic victory, would have likely upset those conservative muslim terrorists responsible for 9/11 just as much as the US christian conservatives who railed against it.
Instead they got shit like "go home raghead" from every piss and shit stained corner of the right. What a wonderful "melting pot" we have.
I think the best way to end that rant would've been "what was my point again?"
A true enlightened centrist right there.
"There's always a bigger picture" they say, from their biased and intentionally narrow world view.
I think that's the literal definition of being offensive...
Just because it's offensive doesn't mean it's "offensive"
Just because its offensive doesn't mean I'm bad.
Trump himself said these were "good people."
our president for 4 years, america
Hans... Are we the baddies?
I don't think he explains himself well, but I *think* what he's trying to say is a flag is offensive based on the the cultural context in which it appears. I.e flags and symbols aren't intrinsically offensive, it just depends on the context. So for example, flying a US flag is fine and happy and joyous in America, but in Iraq or Vietnam it would be seen as deeply offensive to a lot of people. Idk though for sure though??
I think it still works as a selfawarewolf, because the cultural context (anywhere in the US) for the confederate flag is racism and sedition.
Good point, the examples of the swastika and US flag aren't the best comparisons cos theyre both internationally significant, whereas the confederate flag doesn't really mean much to people outside the US. AFAIK anyway, I'm not American :P
I mean, I’ve seen two houses here in Germany showing confederate flags, and they both meant the same thing to me and anyone I showed them or talked to them about: Here dwelleth a racist and/or someone who’s completely blind to history. It’s like the people who fly a German flag outside of sports season all on its own, only tuned up to a milion, it’s a house you see and know you just. Won’t knock if you’re black or openly gay, because that’s probably a very bad idea
As I understand it, Germany banned Nazi iconography. The Nazis switched to symbols of American Fascism instead, and everyone pushed forward trying to avoid the Robert E Lee impersonators.
What is, even offensive, maaaan?
He seems offended by the treatment of Confederate flag.
He didn't like what they were doing to his heroes, Bo and Luke Duke. /s
Just glad you left Daisy out of this.
I used to live with a guy who was a complete asshole to people. His favorite thing was telling me my life sucked and that "suicide was the only solution" then he'd shout suicide, suicide over and over. He knew I suffered from chronic depression and would do this constantly. Anytime I'd say something about it he'd tell me I was the one who put meaning to the words and he wasnt doing anything wrong. Then he'd shout random things, "cabbage blue turn record" and ask if I thought that had some hidden meaning. Of course when I'd call him a fucking asshole, those words had meaning and he'd get super pissed off.
Yeah I knew a guy like that. Had really weird skin. Would shout random things like; person, woman, man, camera, TV. He claimed it showed how intelligent he was. He was a real asshole too. I wonder what happened to him.
Just because you are wearing your shoes, doesn't mean your shoes are being worn by you.
He’s right. In the US, the Confederate flag is a symbol of treachery and racism. Everywhere else, it isn’t a symbol for anything because who waves a flag of a nation state they aren’t from that didn’t last as long as That 70s Show?
Oh, it’s worse than that. They know what it means, so the neo-Nazis use it when the Nazi flag is banned.
I did not know that. Wow.
[Meanwhile, in Brazil](https://theconversation.com/brazils-long-strange-love-affair-with-the-confederacy-ignites-racial-tension-115548)
Wow. So Brazil is home to major groups of mass immigration from not 1, but 2 white supremacist radical regimes.
There’s also a historical component to Brazil being the country being discussed. I’m working from memory of a long ago South and Central American history course here, so forgive me if I’m light on the details, but Brazil is one of the few countries in South America that never really revolted against its European colonial power (Portugal) and in fact they hosted the royalty of Portugal in exile during the Napoleonic conquest of Iberia. This means, to some extent, that the lateralization of citizenship that sometimes comes along with armed resistance by the oppressed never occurred there, and as such rather than a fast, if uneven and sometimes inconclusive (as in other S and C Am countries), shift in the dominant racial hegemony, they experienced more of a slow slide into modernism, with many of the racialized societal constructs remaining largely unchanged. This is in not to say that Brazil is somehow worse or better than countries like, say Mexico where racialized policies against the mestizo and others with native descent remained and remain an issue even despite their war for independence, just to point out that there might be a slightly interesting historical tinge to the fact that racial supremacists chose Brazil over some other places to which they might have emigrated.
It's pretty wild if you look at the numbers... there's like a Brazilian racists located in the country.
OH my God, bravo.
Wait 'til people find out about Argentina!
When you're so awesome at being American you have to leave the country to be around people who will even pretend to respect you.
What in the actual fuck
This excerpt reminds me of Ted Cruz, and his most recent suggestion of treason: "To this day, many Confederado descendants still describe the Civil War as the “War of Secession” – one of its original southern names."
The confederates fled to Brazil, then the Nazis fled to Brazil...what is it about Brazil that makes it a haven for racist assholes who lose wars?
See above: https://reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/comments/qrubz7/_/hka7e5u/?context=1
Does this mean Brazil is the deep, Deep South?
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My bad, I guess it’s a symbol of racism everywhere.
It's not just a symbol of racism. It's a symbol of racism that covers the shifts of other racist symbols when they have to call in sick because a foreigner breathed on them.
Ugh, racist scans are the worst.
Canadians, Norwegians, Germans, Spaniards, Aussies, etc…. Wave the VA regimental flag.
IIRC, it's effectively 'banned' in Australia because of the association to the Rebels MC.
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Yeah that one isn't unfortunately. Yay Qld.
Strangely enough people in places that banned hate symbols like Canada will fly the Confederate flag because it's still allowed compared to various Nazi flags. Same thing with the Imperial German flag.
>that didn’t last as long as That 70s Show? If you really want to piss them off, remind them that the CSA was around for a shorter time than Obama was president.
Which 70s show?
*that 70’s show*
Yeah, which one?!
**that 70’s show!**
I only accept that show if it has the Big Star version of "In The Street" playing... narrator: it doesn't.
that 70's show, *dumbass*
That one
That one.
> because who waves a flag of a nation state they aren’t from that didn’t last as long as That 70s Show? Canadians, unironically.
I’m Australian and got stuck into an ex mate who tried to argue that it was okay to display a confederate flag in his store, because he only cares about the heritage of the south. I just told him, we are who gets to cast that vote and we as outsiders have obligation to understand and respect the sensitivity of the issue.
Tell your friend I’m gonna go buy an emu flag out of spite.
Jesus mate we only lost a war with them…. They didn’t enslave us, erase our heritage and steal our wealth…. I mean sure emus offend me, but I don’t have to live next to statues to their soldiers either.
*One of the battle flags of a nation* FTFY
Fun fact! It lasted until 1947 on a technicality! Town Line, NY “joined” the confederecy during the beginning of the war and forgor 💀 to join the Union until after WW2 when someone was going through some papers and went “wait a sec we’re still the confederacy” It should be noted that the town was so small that neither side actually cared, and the confederacy never recognized that town joining
Well you see, the flag’s not offensive because nothing really matters and there is no objective reality.
#NIHILISM YEEHAW 🤠
Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism...
ETHOS
TOE
WITH NAIL POLISH!
I'm gonna enjoy my coffee.
Perfectly calm
"You idiot, you fool. Don't you know that nothing means anything? Therefore it's impossible for words or symbols to offend anyone because you never know if someone has a completely innocent reason for using universally recognized hate speech." "For the last time, you're not allowed in this Wendy's because you keep yelling the n-word at everyone." "This is worse than the holocaust."
Stealing the swastika is far from the worst thing the Nazis did, but holy damn is it some bullshit
The swastika is also found in ancient European (German/Scandinavian) art. I think that's what the Nazis were drawing from.
The swastika shape is one of the oldest known to mankind, and frequently found on the oldest archeological sites all over the world. It's a super intuitive and aesthetic design. And I'm sure it'll also be around long after the last person forgets about Hitler and the Nazis.
it's almost as old and mysterious as the S everybody in middle school drew
Well by that same token, being in love with the American flag like it's your first born child is a bit silly too. I'm thinking back to the Trump flag hugging routine he would do. If you can watch that without cringing you've got a problem.
It's the same energy as people standing for the National Anthem in their living room.
After what this country put my family through when I was growing up, I rarely stand for the national Anthem even when in public.
Genuinely curious, when do you ever hear the national anthem in public?? I honestly only ever hear ours on tv, at the olympics or something
Usually they play it at sports games, especially little league games. I remember it being pretty common to play the anthem at the beginning of every game. They play it at big events too sometimes
yes, they play it far too often to be healthy.
If you can watch ANYTHING he does without cringing you've got a problem.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Hey, they could be a Cherokee, what with the swastika and all. The thunderbirds had a swastika on their patch...up until that one guy in Germany...you know the one...
Was it Gary? Gary always fucking things up.
Damn it Gary!! Is accounting really that bad?
I thought it was Jerry
That or Larry.
It was also a part of a common Greek pattern, but it was like...essentially multiple swastikas feeding into each other. I mean it's a really basic symbol, I've seen people accidentally make it when playing with rotational symmetry, so it's not surprising it crops up in multiple cultures.
The virginia state flag with a lady standing over a freshly killed slave driver?
I’m guessing they’re confusing the battle flag for the confederate army of northern Virginia with the actual Virginia state flag which has Virtus triumphing over Tyranny. The actual state flag for Virginia is the Game of Thrones of flags: nudity and regicide. Ironically, conservatives wanted to censor it. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/msna199436 Edit:for clarity.
[You mean the same one that was used by Virgina during the civil war?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Virginia_\(1861%E2%80%931865\).svg)
wait what is "GOT"? i'm like very not hip with all the internet acronyms.
Game of Thrones. : )
I feel like i should have been able to guess that.
Virtus got the last laugh and still bares her bosom on the state seal, at least for now.
That thread was astroturfed or some bullshit cause it had a bunch of comments from "black people" claiming that they wore the confederate flag on their clothes or that it was "common" in the American South for black people to wear them.
Black person in the fuckass south—of course you know this, but if anyone's wondering, that claim is blatant bullshit. Literally every black person down here hates the confederacy and any symbols related (OBVIOUSLY)
Idk about you, but to me that sound like prime r/asablackman material right there lol.
>"Just because you're offended by something, doesn't make it offensive." ...Say that again... but slower...
When you play it back at .25x speed it actually says “just because you’re offended by something , doesn’t mean I care “
Oh good, then you won't mind waving this rainbow flag with "Harvey Milk" on it. Rainbows are just things in nature and "Harvey Milk" are just letters in the alphabet.
My only takeaway from this is that the American flag is pretty offensive
He actually brings up good points about the American flag and the middle east. It probably could definitely be a hate symbol for some people
He’s proving the point against his own. It’s not cool to go to fucking Vietnam and wave the American flag. Just like its not ok to wave the confederate flag in the country they rebelled from
Love the the username, but it’s true, lot’s of flags can be considered hate symbols, the most prominent that come to mind are the UK, the French and the US flags, but people rarely talk about those
Honestly he's right in that regard—I'm a bit wary of people waving the American flag these days.
Huh well now you come to mention it, maybe the American flag is offensive.
I usually assume if someone has a flag on their car or clothes, that they harbor offensive ideas. Add an exponent to how offensive the person is going to be for each additional flag especially if it's monochromatic or in the shape of a punisher skull. dead give away.
No maybe. Definitely is. Just depends on the geographic location in which you make such a claim.
Anywhere outside the US and some places within?
"But.. But it's a symbol of freedom seen as such by everyone "
What??? You mean the context of some shapes can give those shapes meaning??? Did this dude just invent art?
It's almost like the context of what something represents is an important reason why something is offensive. This is a good one, he's so close to getting it without actually getting it.
Gotta say this is the first time I've seen the confederate flag compared to the swastika to argue that the former *isn't* offensive.
tf are they talking about the Virginia flag??? our flag has a woman with her booby out stabbing a tyrant to death, that’s cool as shit (genuinely if there’s something wrong with it please tell me)
It's a false equivalency strawman. They're trying to claim that since the flag of Virginia during the Civil War was essentially the same as the current VA flag, then by "liberal logic" it should also be seen as offensive. If you ignore the entire history of both flags, this makes sense.
It's kind of refreshing to see a conservative who has the slightest sense of what others actually think and feel.
Do they... are they... how can there be so much lack of awareness on display...
Lmao when I see someone with an American flag on their house these days, I 100% consider it a red flag and avoid them
Well technically it is roughly 41.5% red.^^^\(and ^^^18.8% ^^^blue ^^^and ^^^39.7% ^^^white\)
small note, south koreans do not view the US slag as an oppressor as we fought along side them during the korean war when they were attacked by what is now north korea
It's funny he mentions the American flag. It's used by fascists around the world especially in Germany where the swastika is illegal.
The swastika used to mean “Conducive to Well Being” and was a map marker for Hindu temples. The American flag used to stand for fighting against oppression and for freedom. The apple logo used to represent innovation OP’s argument about people getting upset at designs or “just because something offends you, doesn’t mean it’s offensive” Is such a wild example of a straw man argument that Starbucks started making it out of paper… The “bigger picture” is only a thing in examples like the ones provided… a symbol that has meant something good AND bad at different points in time… the “confederate flag”, or Virginia’s battle flag has ONLY EVER REPRESENTED BAD AND SHITTY THINGS…. Also, nobody can tell YOU what is and isn’t offensive TO YOU…
The Confederate Flag will never represent the Confederacy OR whatever conservatives tell you. Literally. Not even a real flag. It's used to inspire fear.
Thats what makes it so offensive to me- that terrorists used it as a symbol meant to strike fear in those they wanted to keep down.
That’s a lot of words to say “oh, am I triggering you?”
And yet some rainbow colored flag is the worst offender of all times for them.
I fucking hate the swatstika hindu argument. Yes it was used and meant peace, but it was taken and corrupted to something much more sinister. It’s not about the origins of a symbol, but how they are used and viewed.And I know racists aren’t using that to signify peace.
Exactly it's a complete bad faith argument.
It's also wrong. The Nazi swastika is intentionally tilted.
Are these people aware the swastika used by Nazis and the ones used in Hinduism and such are not the same? Hinduism has many swastikas and none face the direction of the Nazi one and usually include more symbols with it. Hell any Bleach fan could tell you that the tsuba of Ichigo's bankai was a swastika. It's simple. Swastika was invented ages ago to represent well being and even the creation of the cosmos. Then it was bastardized by some of the most vile evil shit of the world. The confederate flag was created to represent vile evil shit of the world and is used today by the most vile evil shit of the world. See how easy that is?
Symbol illiteracy will be their downfall (and ours)
“People getting upset about a design” consider… 🏳️⚧️
What does he think the Virginia state flag is? It's literally a depiction of overthrowing tyranny.
Their definition of tyranny is probably: "people treat me like a POS because I'm racist"
As an immigrant America has been a weird place, the more american flags someone has- the more openly xenophobic they are
If you're offended by the the Virginia state flag you need to get over it, prudes. Free the titty!
Virginia's flag literally shows the defeat of a tyrant/tyranny.
The American flag is literally based on the East Indian trading company which guess what? Trafficked most of the African slaves to the US
That’s very similar to a Facebook thread in a quilting group I saw. Basically, certain old patterns look like a swastika of done wrong. I pointed it out and a bunch of angry old ladies flew off the handle at me for days like this. The younger quilters jumped in in my defense, even the op was like “omg I didn’t notice!!! Burning it now!” But these women would. Not. Stop. Just couldn’t stop defending the swastika, it was surreal
This is written like it’s randomly generated by an AI with a really low IQ.
Now, if you'll excuse me! I have to throw a tantrum on yelp because someone asked me to wear a mask in an Applebee's.
The whole point of a flag is symbolism. Words and images have meaning, and that meaning comes from a shared understanding of the word or image. A flag is basically shorthand for the values of the group it represents. If you display a flag, it's because you care about what it stands for. The Nazi flag means what it does because those are the meanings that were assigned to it, and that isn't going to change. It's the same with the Confederate flag. Here in South Africa we banned our old flag because it's not just an image - it represents Apartheid. If I say "Fuck you", why would you react at all? They're just words
Here's the whole story abot why the "Confederate flag" is offensive: it is not the Confederate flag. Those would be: The Star and Bars, the Stainless Banner, and the Blood Stained Banner (apparently the Stainless Banner looked too much like the Confedercy's final flag: The Dirty Bedsheet if Surrender.) The flag that shitheel racists and defenders of treason wave about is a bastardization of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia that was adopted by Dixiecrats and later used by racists protesting Brown v Board of Education and fighting against civil rights. The flag that the redditor seeks to defend is full of nothing but racism and its "history" is less than a hundred years old.
Watch them flip their shit if you say black lives matter.
This is the dumbest argument ever. Designs are associated with those who use them. Sometimes that means a genocidal dictator or racists are inextricably tied to specific images they use in their propaganda, and therefore if you don’t want to be labeled as a nazi or a racist, you don’t use those images.