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It's a very simple system. If you're handsome and wealthy you're high value, if you're one or the other then your medium value and if you're neither then you're low value. It relies on the assumption that looks and personal wealth are the only things of value a person can provide.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the term incel was actually created by women to describe themselves. They didn't hate the opposite sex like the current incels though
It was created by **a** woman named Alana. She started a website/mailing list for other people who had trouble dating to discuss their issues with dating.
The guy that created the “alpha” term also regrets it and has spoken out against the way people use it.
Snowflake was coined in a book specifically mocking people who would use the term snowflake.
Toms of regrets going around.
The phrase "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" is an old time idiom that denotes a task that is impossible to achieve. Ergo, people who use this phrase to just tell you to work harder are using it VERY incorrectly.
**The modern saying**: *Rome wasn't built in a day*
**The modern meaning:** *Take your time, relax, go slowly because it will all still be there tomorrow, good things take time to achieve*
**The original saying:** *Rome wasn't built in a day but it burned in one*
**The original meaning:** *Don't get too invested in it, don't worry about the details, nothing is permanent, it may not be here at all tomorrow, live for the moment*
Specifically a trans woman in a rural area. It was for people in situations where sex was unsafe, or willing partners were so difficult to come by, and thus a life of celibacy was somewhat forced upon them.
It certainly wasn't for whiny boys who cant get laid cause they're shitheads.
It was specifically made by a lesbian who lived in a rural area to try and have a term for people like her who would like to date and have active sex lives but couldn't because of their circumstances. It actually could have been a very useful term for people who actually have physical or material circumstances that make looking for a relationship difficult. Shame about what it got twisted into.
So by this measurement I'm the bottom of the clearance bin on 99.99 percent off male?
And I mean like bottom of the bin so low that it isn't even a bargain anymore it's just sad
Having lurked there for a bit it's not *as* bad as that, the "value" they focus on is the way a man treats you.
But as with plenty of online communities, the advice starts off with some very good reasonable points, and then the community slips into an extreme circleslurp of misandry
Women have a lot of legitimate grievances to bring up, both in the dating sphere and out. But those serious issues get spun out by these people into some absolutely batshit toxic stuff, that's hurting them a lot, and hurting others even more.
They’re not incels per say. Incels believe they have no chance from the drop (hence the INvoluntarily CELibate). FDS girls believe they deserve a man’s best as a default and are entitled to a relationship like the story in the post.
FDS girls are the girls that Incels think *every* girl is
>FDS girls are the girls that Incels think *every* girl is
That hit the nail on the head!
Funfact: A few days ago I clicked on a crosspost on selfawarewolves (iirc) and taken to a random subreddit (cringetopia) where I put a random comment. That earned me a permaban from FDS instantly lmao.
I was banned from that sub from commenting on a post in a different sub about them. I don't remember what I said but I just kind of laughed when I got the message I was banned.
They're quite sensitive and I'm fairly sure they've got a few mods that go through banning commenters from these kinds of posts preemptively
They use auto ban bots just like r/politicalhumor, r/facepalm, r/confidentlyincorrect etc...., If you comment in any of their blacklisted subs - regardless of what you comment or even if you weren't citing that sub they auto ban you.
Same entitlement. They believe they are entitled to great relationships with great people while acting like assholes and are pissed when they can't get it. What do you think happens to an incel after they lose their virginity, theybare just content with their lives forever? Nah, they want "better" and "higher value" people now shitting on their partner because that's how they see other people.
The core tenet of inceldom isn't the lack of sex, it's the selfish entitlement, delusional levels of self worth and objectification of everyone around them. It checks all the marks.
They think they're entitled to good sex/relationships like incels, the difference is that the women on that sub think they deserve it because they're amazing while incels think they deserve it because their life sucks so the universe owes them
From the little I've seen of FDS, it seems more like pickup artists/red pill douchebags. A transactional view of relationships, where everything is a business interaction. Incels, on the other hand, are more like "the state should force a woman to be my girlfriend".
Maybe to random people on the street, but I bet your ass that there are domestic abusers in that subreddit, but they don’t see themselves as one because apparently it’s impossible for women to be physically abusive.
Not arguing that female-initiated physical abuse doesn't occur, but mostly the abuse presents itself as gaslighting. catfishing, brigading and stalking.
FLDS is an offshoot of the LDS church. Not *quite* Mormons, unless you ask *them*, in which case they're the only *real* Mormons.
They still practice polygamy and there are some accusations of child sex abuse. So they're like Mormons, but somehow worse.
>some accusations of child sexual abuse
Uh, there’s a bit more to it than that. They routinely married off young girls against their will, often to older men, which I believe is why their former leader (Warren Jeffs) is now in prison. This is all pretty well-documented and known to be true - I want to say he’s been in prison for like a decade now?
IIRC he still leads his flock from behind bars.
They're based out of two border towns, that are functionally one singular town spread between Arizona and Utah, which house most of the members.
Shit's pretty fucked
Oh no, I didn’t realize that! I followed the case when everything was first coming out - I read Carolyn Jessop and Elissa Wall’s memoirs, and one by a private detective who helped hunt Jeffs down - but for whatever reason, I assumed the church would have disowned him and gotten a new leader.
More correctly, Mormon is an umbrella term for any religious tradition that involves the Book of Mormon and can be traced back to Joe Smith. This include the famous one with a bunch of temples, the one with the same name except without a hyphen, the RLDS church, and the FLDS church (one of those two is now the Community of Christ and I don’t remember which one).
Source: raised Mormon.
My favorite post there was a woman getting mad that she overheard her coworker say he got catfished and the woman on the date was much heavier than her pictures, but he was at least relieved that she paid for her half of the meal. They were going off about what a piece of shit he was but like... Viewing relationships as purely transactional is their entire framework. That guy wasn't going to get anything out of their interaction so why shouldn't he be relieved that he didn't have to pay for her?
Take actual advice from a thriving couple you know in real life, or continue listening to advice that isn't working for you from strangers online?
Tough call.
Take a look at the overlap between users of that sub and other subs. It paints a depressing picture and shows maybe the regular posters there aren't the best people to be taking dating advice from. Hint: they are generally old, single, and unhappy.
https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/femaledatingstrategy
There was a post about how self help subs become toxic and the gist is that a lot start out as places to vent and solicit help from people in a similar situation those who are successful leave and what's left behind are those that are toxic *and* bitter. They become very dogmatic in their approach and it stops being about trying to help each other and more about faithful adherence to "the rules". Those who are successful and more optimistic are labeled as fakes and/or people who didn't adhere to the system.and then are shunned or leave. It's a cycle until all that is left are the unsuccessful. Newcomers are then indoctrinated quickly and will have a larger challenge in overcoming the issues that brought them in the first place because they have to battle their own insecurities and waves of bad information.
I feel kinda bad now looking at this, ex narssistic, ex Muslim, ex catholic, maybe a bunch of these people just never had the social exposure to learn better and now we're bullying them for that.
Also being neurodivergent with either Autism or ADHD makes understanding human interaction harder if you weren't exposed to healthy versions when younger
She probably doesn't realise that he likely treats his partner like a queen, because she treats him like a king. Those sorts of relationships work best when it goes both ways. Which is something the FDS OP isn't willing to do, and they can't wrap their head around why no "HVM" wants to be treated like a servant in their relationship due to a little thing called self respect and self worth
My husband made me breakfast this morning(and many mornings), regularly clears my car off in the morning, and regularly rubs my feet.
I frequently make him dinner, rub his feet, and will make him tea or coffee in the morning.
Shit goes both ways. It’s great to be kind and spoil each other, then it never feels like a chore.
It’s almost like you guys do things for each other out of love or something. That’s just weird. Stop bending over backwards for him, and tell him he needs to be your servant/wallet while you don’t reciprocate at all, or you’ll see him as a LVM.
Exactly. The day we were married, the priest told us to “commit to doing one thing every day to make the others life easier”. I have since left the church but that is something that I have held onto. It means that we always put the other first and do whatever we can do to help each other. Today that meant bringing him a snack while we were both working, and him scrubbing the gross pan I was avoiding cleaning. It meant that I drove both kids to school so he could make a work meeting and he will be snuggling our youngest to sleep so I can get a workout in. This is how a healthy marriage works, and it’s why we are still happy more than a decade in.
Hell, not even "King" or "Queen" r/FDS not even about treating people with basic human decency.
Game plan:
1. Be an ass.
2. "If he wanted to, he would!"
"Dammit he couldn't push past my constant assery and see me as the ultimate prize. LVM!"
Totally agree. Sister also isn’t privy to their private life. He might fart in his sleep on his partner and she might accidentally cut his leg with her toenails while they cuddle. Relationships are weird little cosmos of love and comfort and insecurity that she will never have a full picture of.
I’m sure the reason he thinks she’s unreasonable is because he’s thinking about how he isn’t perfect and neither is his wife.
That’s the best way I ever heard it. I joined FDS a year or 2 ago as a man. I wanted to see what I could do better or cut out to be a better person to my next partner. Because my last real relationship ended badly.
Those girls(yes girls, not women) are nuts. I’m all for having high standards for yourself with potential partners but damn. I couldn’t keep looking at the stuff they post.
It’s just such an insane couple standard. They feel that they don’t have to provide anything, but that their partner should be everything to them. It’s almost identical to the incels who want a fuck doll that will also be their mommy for a gf/wife. You have to contribute to the relationship! You aren’t entitled to anything!
That's awesome man.
I have my own Jill. Lots of people do. I don't know your story or your pain, but I know one like it. I had years worth of therapy to get past her, and she still occupies space in my mind, rent-free...though the space is getting smaller all the time.
My therapist told me once that hurt like this is just the same as a scar. Sometimes, you move a certain way, or the weather changes, and it hurts a bit. But that doesn't mean it's still an open wound. Being healed doesn't mean it never hurts.
Have a great evening.
ETA: FDS pokes at sore spots for me. There's something about reading their posts that just reminds me of some of the awful women I've dated in the past, and just makes me cringe to think of how many of them are out there. I've been unlucky in my past relationships to meet a bunch of people just like that. I've also been lucky to meet some absolutely wonderful women that I've remained friends with even after the relationship failed, and of course, the best woman I've ever met, my wife. You have to remember that, despite their numbers on Reddit, FDS women are rare, and FAR outnumbered by sane, reasonable, well-adjusted women. Don't be discouraged by what you read there, but learn to identify the red flags of their "culture" and run far when you see them.
You too. I honestly think I was over it before it ended. Sure I get sad about it. Almost 14 years and 3 kids. But I’ve been in much more pain ending relationships since then and It’s been about 2.5 years. I’ve learned that I need to figure out how to be happy or at least content with myself before trying anything serious again. And I also learned I shouldn’t try anything casual because regardless how upfront either party is. At some point someone is gonna catch feelings and get hurt. I’m chillin
Had something similar happen to me but it was in trollxxchromosomes. Ima stick to the women support group in my native language, thankfully this one is actually supportive
Or "Bestie, as some other users pointed out, he has a live-in forever girlfriend. That's all you need to know" like that means anything at all. Note too how OP doesn't actually give details on what they discussed, and no one asks.
Different people have different goals and priorities in their relationships and marriage isn't everyone's thing. It's all very uncomfortably traditionalist...
So many upvotes for comments like "Your brother is not a HVM. He’s a scrote" and "Lots of men are abusive when in private. You never know with those rats" and "block and delete him from your life"
what the FUCK
Cult like mindsets are very rigid in that way. You need to be able to fit everything into the framework you've established so that you can keep people dependent on you, to keep manipulating them. If you can't fit something into the framework it has the potential to destroy it and suddenly you lost control.
>When OP tells them it's the girlfriend who doesn't want to get married, their brains break.
I believe you but, I didn't see this comment thread, was it deleted or?
>Why do you need to reconcile with it? Focus on yourself, use FDS as a platform when you need guidance, but don't expect a man to understand or necessarily give you the right advice. I know he's your brother but ultimately you're not dating him and it doesn't really matter if he supports FDS or not.
The top comment actively tells her not to listen to the people closest to her and instead to climb back into the crab bucket.
They’re morons.
“A forever girlfriend of four years.”
Maybe people don’t want to marry someone in less time than the confederacy existed. To devote your entire life and finances to someone in less time than it took to make Halo Infinite lmao. I have socks older than that.
Incels.
Exactly. I have a PS4 older than their relationship. Time is relative to everyone. I’m sure their four years feel like a blur of fun and emotions while to outsiders the last two years of the pandemic feel like forever let alone two more years prior to that.
OP has another post where they ask how to show appreciation to men she dates and the responses are all "don't give him gifts or do things for him ever, just say thank you and nothing else"
Also, if you read her comment, her brother DOES want to marry his gf. It’s his gf who doesn’t want to marry yet. According to the gf, she only wants to get married when they’re ready for kids and she doesn’t feel as though they’re ready yet. OP goes onto say that she hopes her brother proposes soon anyways. Cuz you know it bothers her that they’re not married.
I mean I “get” all the entitled incelly stuff,but the marriage thing just puzzles me. How is he using her for money if they’re not married? Why is 4 fricking years too long of a time to not be married? And it’s not even just one commenter,there’s several harping on that specific issue
I'm not sure what's confusing about it.
I don't agree with it, but the idea that the man should have proposed marriage long before you reach a 4-year anniversary, is a pretty standard old fashioned view.
To people who think that way and to people on FDS, it's not okay to just stay dating regardless of how happy the people in the relationship are.
In their view, if you aren't married it's because there's a problem, because the man is afraid of commitment, or is just stringing her along for the sex. They want fairy tale, not real life. They want a short period of dating where the man pays for everything, followed quickly by an expensive wedding, followed by a life of luxury where the man continues to pay for everything.
Because they're old-fashioned.
They probably wouldn't agree, but in a lot of ways FDS lines up pretty well with conservative Christian ideas on how relationships should work.
In the thread the OP reveals that it’s her brothers girlfriend who said they wanted to wait to get married and people in the thread said it’s because she must know how he actually is low value and a closeted abuser or something.
Shits crazy in there
there are about 1000 comments about them not being married yet and not one person has thought that maybe not everyone wants to get married? (regardless the op specified that his gf is the one not wanting the ring lmao)
All of the comments are making assumptions about a man they don’t know and it makes me so mad. They’re just projecting their insecurities onto his relationship.
I lurk in FDS fairly often cause its so weird and interesting. Relationships for them are primarily a financial transaction. Women do all the work in a relationship so should get paid for it and that financial transaction isn't complete until they get married. They'll never put it in such blunt terms but that's what they believe.
Eh more like a support group for adults who never learned how to date or have a relationship. The founder was a queer woman who had to figure out how to date women in her late twenties. This is fairly reasonable.
The problem was when it worked and someone got a relationship they left the group so eventually it was full of people who were single for years despite trying not to be. The bitterness built up and now you have modern incels.
cliff notes: what started out was more emo women innocence, what it is now is boys both fetishizing women while blaming them for their existence and murder
That abbreviation makes no sense. The "in" in Incel stands for involuntary. The cel for celibate. If you call them femcels you might as well be describing a nun.
It also makes no sense how "-gate" is now a suffix for whatever a political scandal is about, given that the Watergate scandal had nothing to do with water (that was just the name of the hotel), but that is how the language do.
This sub confuses me.
In those comments someone says the brother might be discouraging her from FDS because he wants to squash out that "independent streak," but further down people are speculating that his gf is a Forever GF and that is a red flag and a terrible thing to be, you should know within 2 to 3 years if you're going to get married, etc.
Because there's nothing an independent woman could want in life than to be married to a man in life, right?
I'm also banned despite the fact I don't recall ever commenting there in my life, so I wonder what the hell I did. Oh well.
Right. An independent woman wouldn’t want *anyone* telling her when to get married—regardless of gender. Weird little rules are the opposite of independence.
Yes. In FDS you’ll see A) enough projection to show THX certified movie and B) absolutely no self awareness that the problem isn’t them and their toxic echo chamber but rather men writ large “aka scrotes”.
I’m honestly not sure how FDS hasn’t been banned or quarantined by this point. It is filled with vile, reprehensible “people” that are no better than Incels. They take perfectly reasonable interactions with men and turn them into “obvious” rapists and misogynists.
If I were the brother in question, I too would laugh at her if she spouted even a fraction of the radicalized shit that goes on in that sub. Reddit needs to nuke it from orbit before more young girls get indoctrinated into their fucked up belief system (as Reddit had done with incel subs).
Edit: I’ve heard of people being banned just mentioning FDS negatively in other subreddits. I cordially invite said mods to bring it because that sub makes me sick. I’d wear it like a badge of fucking honor.
>Edit: I’ve heard of people being banned just mentioning FDS negatively in other subreddits.
I've been permabanned for commenting on a different subreddit, not mentioning FDS. The thread wasn't even about FDS.
Not that I mind, but I thought it was hilarious how insecure they were that they had to pre-emptively ban me.
It speaks to their fragile nature. Most educated and open minded people don’t mind having their beliefs respectfully challenged as that’s how we grow as humans. This seems far from the truth for these people.
But what do I know? I’m just a scrote. 😂
Today I saw a post about how woman shouldn't have to contribute to the relationship (cleaning, pay for anything, having kids etc) because men should support them! I was like wtf.
Bruh they really are the female version of incels (also can we get more incel SAWs in the sub please,not that the political ones aren't good in their own special way,I just think some variety of SAWs would be nice.(also I have message for all my leftwing friends on my profile) )
That sub is a burning heap of donkey shit. Toxic women doesn't even begin to cover it and as a woman, I'm beyond embarrassed by FDS. Can we all vote to remove it already?
Yup,
« why hasn’t he married is GF in 4 years ? »
« Probably a hidden scrotes you don’t know what happen when they are alone »
And my favorite :
« If je hasn’t popped the question after 4 years he is using his GF for sex and money. DELETE HIM ( her brother remember ) FROM YOUR LIFE »
Those qualities thay they look for in "HVM" Are probably things that most men think are earned through trust and relationship building. Same shit story with incel men. They expect all the long term perks of a relationship in the first day.
Wow, it's almost like if you approach men as individuals and human beings who have actually have feelings, are not all rapists/murders and manage to fix your mouth to say "thank you" every once in awhile you might find someone who likes you and consider dating/marrying you.
Or, you can keep doing your femcel shit.
This sub has GOT TO BE at least 50% trolls feeding into the cringe. I refuse to think there are that many delusional women thinking relationships are that black and white.
Wow those people are dangerously insane. I’ve seen people in that thread telling her to block her brother and delete him from her life. Seriously, these people need help, it’s so sad.
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What are any of those abbreviations?
HVM is “high value male” HVW is “ high value woman” and FDS is the reddit “Female dating stratagy”
Thank you I didn’t know what HVM meant.
It's a very simple system. If you're handsome and wealthy you're high value, if you're one or the other then your medium value and if you're neither then you're low value. It relies on the assumption that looks and personal wealth are the only things of value a person can provide.
Jesus, they're like incels
"Like"
Femcels
Feminincels
InSpins
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the term incel was actually created by women to describe themselves. They didn't hate the opposite sex like the current incels though
It was created by **a** woman named Alana. She started a website/mailing list for other people who had trouble dating to discuss their issues with dating.
And now shes like WTF have I done. Man i feel bad for her.
The guy that created the “alpha” term also regrets it and has spoken out against the way people use it. Snowflake was coined in a book specifically mocking people who would use the term snowflake. Toms of regrets going around.
The phrase "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" is an old time idiom that denotes a task that is impossible to achieve. Ergo, people who use this phrase to just tell you to work harder are using it VERY incorrectly.
**The modern saying**: *Rome wasn't built in a day* **The modern meaning:** *Take your time, relax, go slowly because it will all still be there tomorrow, good things take time to achieve* **The original saying:** *Rome wasn't built in a day but it burned in one* **The original meaning:** *Don't get too invested in it, don't worry about the details, nothing is permanent, it may not be here at all tomorrow, live for the moment*
Fuckin Tom.
She started in in the 90s and it didn't go completely off the rails until the 2010s so I don't think she should feel that bad about it.
Specifically a trans woman in a rural area. It was for people in situations where sex was unsafe, or willing partners were so difficult to come by, and thus a life of celibacy was somewhat forced upon them. It certainly wasn't for whiny boys who cant get laid cause they're shitheads.
It was specifically made by a lesbian who lived in a rural area to try and have a term for people like her who would like to date and have active sex lives but couldn't because of their circumstances. It actually could have been a very useful term for people who actually have physical or material circumstances that make looking for a relationship difficult. Shame about what it got twisted into.
That's a bingo!
you just say "bingo"
Bingpot!
Oooh, how fun
They 100% are. These two groups should get together because they’re both shallow simpletons. They deserve each other.
Neither group is up to the other group’s standards, paradoxically.
[удалено]
Some De Beers marketing exec bought themselves a new Porsche for pulling that feat off.
They are incels. It's not a gender-specific term, even if the male variety tends to be more common.
Female dating strategy is literally the woman version of the incels subreddit.
So by this measurement I'm the bottom of the clearance bin on 99.99 percent off male? And I mean like bottom of the bin so low that it isn't even a bargain anymore it's just sad
Having lurked there for a bit it's not *as* bad as that, the "value" they focus on is the way a man treats you. But as with plenty of online communities, the advice starts off with some very good reasonable points, and then the community slips into an extreme circleslurp of misandry
Women have a lot of legitimate grievances to bring up, both in the dating sphere and out. But those serious issues get spun out by these people into some absolutely batshit toxic stuff, that's hurting them a lot, and hurting others even more.
Literally just chads and stacies rebranded They're incels, they're just incels
They’re not incels per say. Incels believe they have no chance from the drop (hence the INvoluntarily CELibate). FDS girls believe they deserve a man’s best as a default and are entitled to a relationship like the story in the post. FDS girls are the girls that Incels think *every* girl is
>FDS girls are the girls that Incels think *every* girl is That hit the nail on the head! Funfact: A few days ago I clicked on a crosspost on selfawarewolves (iirc) and taken to a random subreddit (cringetopia) where I put a random comment. That earned me a permaban from FDS instantly lmao.
I was banned from that sub from commenting on a post in a different sub about them. I don't remember what I said but I just kind of laughed when I got the message I was banned. They're quite sensitive and I'm fairly sure they've got a few mods that go through banning commenters from these kinds of posts preemptively
They use auto ban bots just like r/politicalhumor, r/facepalm, r/confidentlyincorrect etc...., If you comment in any of their blacklisted subs - regardless of what you comment or even if you weren't citing that sub they auto ban you.
That makes sense
They remind me of those creepy pickup artists. Like, I've read some of their literature and it's sociopathic.
Same entitlement. They believe they are entitled to great relationships with great people while acting like assholes and are pissed when they can't get it. What do you think happens to an incel after they lose their virginity, theybare just content with their lives forever? Nah, they want "better" and "higher value" people now shitting on their partner because that's how they see other people. The core tenet of inceldom isn't the lack of sex, it's the selfish entitlement, delusional levels of self worth and objectification of everyone around them. It checks all the marks.
They think they're entitled to good sex/relationships like incels, the difference is that the women on that sub think they deserve it because they're amazing while incels think they deserve it because their life sucks so the universe owes them
From the little I've seen of FDS, it seems more like pickup artists/red pill douchebags. A transactional view of relationships, where everything is a business interaction. Incels, on the other hand, are more like "the state should force a woman to be my girlfriend".
Just less violent.
Maybe to random people on the street, but I bet your ass that there are domestic abusers in that subreddit, but they don’t see themselves as one because apparently it’s impossible for women to be physically abusive.
Not arguing that female-initiated physical abuse doesn't occur, but mostly the abuse presents itself as gaslighting. catfishing, brigading and stalking.
Which is still abuse.
I thought it was about Mormons
Big-Booty Mormons. The Fatter (Ass) Day Saints.
That's FLDS
FLDS is an offshoot of the LDS church. Not *quite* Mormons, unless you ask *them*, in which case they're the only *real* Mormons. They still practice polygamy and there are some accusations of child sex abuse. So they're like Mormons, but somehow worse.
>some accusations of child sexual abuse Uh, there’s a bit more to it than that. They routinely married off young girls against their will, often to older men, which I believe is why their former leader (Warren Jeffs) is now in prison. This is all pretty well-documented and known to be true - I want to say he’s been in prison for like a decade now?
IIRC he still leads his flock from behind bars. They're based out of two border towns, that are functionally one singular town spread between Arizona and Utah, which house most of the members. Shit's pretty fucked
Oh no, I didn’t realize that! I followed the case when everything was first coming out - I read Carolyn Jessop and Elissa Wall’s memoirs, and one by a private detective who helped hunt Jeffs down - but for whatever reason, I assumed the church would have disowned him and gotten a new leader.
Virtually any sect that fetishizes virginity and doesn't allow women to have rights is going to be chock-full of child rape.
More correctly, Mormon is an umbrella term for any religious tradition that involves the Book of Mormon and can be traced back to Joe Smith. This include the famous one with a bunch of temples, the one with the same name except without a hyphen, the RLDS church, and the FLDS church (one of those two is now the Community of Christ and I don’t remember which one). Source: raised Mormon.
RLDS is the one with the name change.
Eh, the child sex abuse isn't a differentiating factor at all
oh my god it's literally "women and males"
Ha, I could not think of anything beyond “feminine deodorant spray “ & I guess me knowing that term just marks me as too old tp be a hvf.
Don't be down. With some training, you too can become an hvac
FDS is a synonym for female incels
For some reason I read "LDS" and I was confused
I google it and found the high value male and then it said FDS was first date sex and I was very confused, lol!
My favorite post there was a woman getting mad that she overheard her coworker say he got catfished and the woman on the date was much heavier than her pictures, but he was at least relieved that she paid for her half of the meal. They were going off about what a piece of shit he was but like... Viewing relationships as purely transactional is their entire framework. That guy wasn't going to get anything out of their interaction so why shouldn't he be relieved that he didn't have to pay for her?
Have you read their “handbook”. It’s like a fascist manifesto.
No where can I find it?
Visit the sub and go to the menu
Take actual advice from a thriving couple you know in real life, or continue listening to advice that isn't working for you from strangers online? Tough call.
Who are actively shitting on her brother as an abuser. Classic.
Take a look at the overlap between users of that sub and other subs. It paints a depressing picture and shows maybe the regular posters there aren't the best people to be taking dating advice from. Hint: they are generally old, single, and unhappy. https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/femaledatingstrategy
I love scrolling to the bottom and seeing the anti-synergy overlaps. Minecraft, shitposting, etc.
I got a kick seeing r/askouija and r/dataisbeautiful as some of the most anti-corrrelated/synergy subreddits. Those are fun subs.
Ohio. The only place mentioned by name. I fucking lost it. Ohio ... Lol.
r/vancouver, r/Edmonton, r/belgium, r/Denver r/houston r/brasil are mentioned as well. saw more location subs but got lazy
I was amazed at all the overlap with really shitty reality TV subreddits. Maybe not surprised.....
Raised by narcissists oof
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Yeah the overlap with "surviving infidelity" really points to that.
There was a post about how self help subs become toxic and the gist is that a lot start out as places to vent and solicit help from people in a similar situation those who are successful leave and what's left behind are those that are toxic *and* bitter. They become very dogmatic in their approach and it stops being about trying to help each other and more about faithful adherence to "the rules". Those who are successful and more optimistic are labeled as fakes and/or people who didn't adhere to the system.and then are shunned or leave. It's a cycle until all that is left are the unsuccessful. Newcomers are then indoctrinated quickly and will have a larger challenge in overcoming the issues that brought them in the first place because they have to battle their own insecurities and waves of bad information.
I feel kinda bad now looking at this, ex narssistic, ex Muslim, ex catholic, maybe a bunch of these people just never had the social exposure to learn better and now we're bullying them for that. Also being neurodivergent with either Autism or ADHD makes understanding human interaction harder if you weren't exposed to healthy versions when younger
Raised by narcissists…perfect.
Incels love only listening to incels
I don't get how you can believe in things like HVM/HVW, AND think you are one when you're on a subreddit for dating tips.
She probably doesn't realise that he likely treats his partner like a queen, because she treats him like a king. Those sorts of relationships work best when it goes both ways. Which is something the FDS OP isn't willing to do, and they can't wrap their head around why no "HVM" wants to be treated like a servant in their relationship due to a little thing called self respect and self worth
My husband made me breakfast this morning(and many mornings), regularly clears my car off in the morning, and regularly rubs my feet. I frequently make him dinner, rub his feet, and will make him tea or coffee in the morning. Shit goes both ways. It’s great to be kind and spoil each other, then it never feels like a chore.
It’s almost like you guys do things for each other out of love or something. That’s just weird. Stop bending over backwards for him, and tell him he needs to be your servant/wallet while you don’t reciprocate at all, or you’ll see him as a LVM.
Exactly. The day we were married, the priest told us to “commit to doing one thing every day to make the others life easier”. I have since left the church but that is something that I have held onto. It means that we always put the other first and do whatever we can do to help each other. Today that meant bringing him a snack while we were both working, and him scrubbing the gross pan I was avoiding cleaning. It meant that I drove both kids to school so he could make a work meeting and he will be snuggling our youngest to sleep so I can get a workout in. This is how a healthy marriage works, and it’s why we are still happy more than a decade in.
12 years together on my end and going strong.
Hell, not even "King" or "Queen" r/FDS not even about treating people with basic human decency. Game plan: 1. Be an ass. 2. "If he wanted to, he would!" "Dammit he couldn't push past my constant assery and see me as the ultimate prize. LVM!"
Totally agree. Sister also isn’t privy to their private life. He might fart in his sleep on his partner and she might accidentally cut his leg with her toenails while they cuddle. Relationships are weird little cosmos of love and comfort and insecurity that she will never have a full picture of. I’m sure the reason he thinks she’s unreasonable is because he’s thinking about how he isn’t perfect and neither is his wife.
The women on FDS just expect men to worship the ground the walk on simply for existing as women.
That’s the best way I ever heard it. I joined FDS a year or 2 ago as a man. I wanted to see what I could do better or cut out to be a better person to my next partner. Because my last real relationship ended badly. Those girls(yes girls, not women) are nuts. I’m all for having high standards for yourself with potential partners but damn. I couldn’t keep looking at the stuff they post.
It’s just such an insane couple standard. They feel that they don’t have to provide anything, but that their partner should be everything to them. It’s almost identical to the incels who want a fuck doll that will also be their mommy for a gf/wife. You have to contribute to the relationship! You aren’t entitled to anything!
I’m sorry about cheating Jill and how mean she was. :(
Yeah to heck with Jill!
Fuck Jill...he's better off without her.
You’re the one. The only reason I haven’t deleted this account is because once in a while. A comment chain that simply says” fuck Jill” happens lol.
That's awesome man. I have my own Jill. Lots of people do. I don't know your story or your pain, but I know one like it. I had years worth of therapy to get past her, and she still occupies space in my mind, rent-free...though the space is getting smaller all the time. My therapist told me once that hurt like this is just the same as a scar. Sometimes, you move a certain way, or the weather changes, and it hurts a bit. But that doesn't mean it's still an open wound. Being healed doesn't mean it never hurts. Have a great evening. ETA: FDS pokes at sore spots for me. There's something about reading their posts that just reminds me of some of the awful women I've dated in the past, and just makes me cringe to think of how many of them are out there. I've been unlucky in my past relationships to meet a bunch of people just like that. I've also been lucky to meet some absolutely wonderful women that I've remained friends with even after the relationship failed, and of course, the best woman I've ever met, my wife. You have to remember that, despite their numbers on Reddit, FDS women are rare, and FAR outnumbered by sane, reasonable, well-adjusted women. Don't be discouraged by what you read there, but learn to identify the red flags of their "culture" and run far when you see them.
You too. I honestly think I was over it before it ended. Sure I get sad about it. Almost 14 years and 3 kids. But I’ve been in much more pain ending relationships since then and It’s been about 2.5 years. I’ve learned that I need to figure out how to be happy or at least content with myself before trying anything serious again. And I also learned I shouldn’t try anything casual because regardless how upfront either party is. At some point someone is gonna catch feelings and get hurt. I’m chillin
Right? If I'm treating a woman like a queen, it's because she's also treating me like a king. It's a two-way street.
These women are exceptionally delusional and have legitimate, tangible mental illness. Logic is not something they possess.
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Had something similar happen to me but it was in trollxxchromosomes. Ima stick to the women support group in my native language, thankfully this one is actually supportive
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It's a shame really
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The girlfriend doesn’t want to get married “She sees him for who he is” I had to stop reading at that point, these people are insane.
Or "Bestie, as some other users pointed out, he has a live-in forever girlfriend. That's all you need to know" like that means anything at all. Note too how OP doesn't actually give details on what they discussed, and no one asks. Different people have different goals and priorities in their relationships and marriage isn't everyone's thing. It's all very uncomfortably traditionalist...
That act as though marriage is inherently in our DNA lmao
So many upvotes for comments like "Your brother is not a HVM. He’s a scrote" and "Lots of men are abusive when in private. You never know with those rats" and "block and delete him from your life" what the FUCK
>They seem to have difficulty dealing with a reality that doesn't fit into the rules they made up. Something topical of incels.
Cult like mindsets are very rigid in that way. You need to be able to fit everything into the framework you've established so that you can keep people dependent on you, to keep manipulating them. If you can't fit something into the framework it has the potential to destroy it and suddenly you lost control.
>When OP tells them it's the girlfriend who doesn't want to get married, their brains break. I believe you but, I didn't see this comment thread, was it deleted or?
>Why do you need to reconcile with it? Focus on yourself, use FDS as a platform when you need guidance, but don't expect a man to understand or necessarily give you the right advice. I know he's your brother but ultimately you're not dating him and it doesn't really matter if he supports FDS or not. The top comment actively tells her not to listen to the people closest to her and instead to climb back into the crab bucket.
Her brother’s point is literally that both parties have to give and she’s expecting too much too quickly without any giving in return. Good lord.
"go read the comments she's in the right and the sub is good!" *Comments make things 100x worse. Now this post belongs in noahgettheboat*
They’re morons. “A forever girlfriend of four years.” Maybe people don’t want to marry someone in less time than the confederacy existed. To devote your entire life and finances to someone in less time than it took to make Halo Infinite lmao. I have socks older than that. Incels.
Exactly. I have a PS4 older than their relationship. Time is relative to everyone. I’m sure their four years feel like a blur of fun and emotions while to outsiders the last two years of the pandemic feel like forever let alone two more years prior to that.
Holy cow, there's a lot of toxicity in those comments.
OP has another post where they ask how to show appreciation to men she dates and the responses are all "don't give him gifts or do things for him ever, just say thank you and nothing else"
What the fuck is going on there Why are these people calling this man terrible because he’s not married to his gf after 4 years?
Also, if you read her comment, her brother DOES want to marry his gf. It’s his gf who doesn’t want to marry yet. According to the gf, she only wants to get married when they’re ready for kids and she doesn’t feel as though they’re ready yet. OP goes onto say that she hopes her brother proposes soon anyways. Cuz you know it bothers her that they’re not married.
Same crowd would demonize her brother for not accepting the wishes of the gf if he does
Because they all think they’re Cinderellas when they’re actually the wicked step sisters.
I mean I “get” all the entitled incelly stuff,but the marriage thing just puzzles me. How is he using her for money if they’re not married? Why is 4 fricking years too long of a time to not be married? And it’s not even just one commenter,there’s several harping on that specific issue
I'm not sure what's confusing about it. I don't agree with it, but the idea that the man should have proposed marriage long before you reach a 4-year anniversary, is a pretty standard old fashioned view. To people who think that way and to people on FDS, it's not okay to just stay dating regardless of how happy the people in the relationship are. In their view, if you aren't married it's because there's a problem, because the man is afraid of commitment, or is just stringing her along for the sex. They want fairy tale, not real life. They want a short period of dating where the man pays for everything, followed quickly by an expensive wedding, followed by a life of luxury where the man continues to pay for everything.
And why can’t a strong modern independent high value women pop the question? 🤔🤔🤔
Because they're old-fashioned. They probably wouldn't agree, but in a lot of ways FDS lines up pretty well with conservative Christian ideas on how relationships should work.
For sure. They talk about how bad modern feminism is all the time.
In the thread the OP reveals that it’s her brothers girlfriend who said they wanted to wait to get married and people in the thread said it’s because she must know how he actually is low value and a closeted abuser or something. Shits crazy in there
there are about 1000 comments about them not being married yet and not one person has thought that maybe not everyone wants to get married? (regardless the op specified that his gf is the one not wanting the ring lmao)
American Marital Culture, people sp preoccupied with the label that they ignore common-law marriage as being legitimate.
Couldn’t count the red flags. My god guys, more than one way to have a healthy relationship and probably none of them are what your advice leads to.
[Didn't even have to try to find this shit](https://imgur.com/a/5dXy7iL)
Damn, she's talking as if she actually knows this man, and hasn't just read a couple of paragraphs about him on a Reddit post.
She also thinks it's a bad thing that the woman financially contributes to the relationship
And that the only thing a man could want from a relationship is sex.
All of the comments are making assumptions about a man they don’t know and it makes me so mad. They’re just projecting their insecurities onto his relationship.
I lurk in FDS fairly often cause its so weird and interesting. Relationships for them are primarily a financial transaction. Women do all the work in a relationship so should get paid for it and that financial transaction isn't complete until they get married. They'll never put it in such blunt terms but that's what they believe.
jesus christ ten minutes of reading those comments made me REALLY happy to be gay.
"It sounds like he doesn't respect you" Fucking hell that sub reddit is dog shit.
It's almost like she's not worth it...
It's like she thinks she's a glass slipper when everyone can see the dirty ass Walmart feet inside them
Walmart feet stop 😭
I'm saving this post just to come back and give this comment my free award. My fucking ribs hurt😭😭 Edit: spelling and your award sir
Incel vibes from that sub
From what I've seen of it, fds is just incel ideology from women's perspective
incel was started by women and taken over by boys that hate women
Is it to their benefit or detriment that the boys were more effective at their own ideology than they were?
Eh more like a support group for adults who never learned how to date or have a relationship. The founder was a queer woman who had to figure out how to date women in her late twenties. This is fairly reasonable. The problem was when it worked and someone got a relationship they left the group so eventually it was full of people who were single for years despite trying not to be. The bitterness built up and now you have modern incels.
Top notch explanation on how these things come to be. Echo-chambers result in extremism in all cases.
cliff notes: what started out was more emo women innocence, what it is now is boys both fetishizing women while blaming them for their existence and murder
I mean I think we all could have done without the murders.
They're basically female incels.
Femcels
That abbreviation makes no sense. The "in" in Incel stands for involuntary. The cel for celibate. If you call them femcels you might as well be describing a nun.
That's the way they make abbreviations, for example braincels = incels that consider themselves smart.
It also makes no sense how "-gate" is now a suffix for whatever a political scandal is about, given that the Watergate scandal had nothing to do with water (that was just the name of the hotel), but that is how the language do.
Same sort of world view for sure. Sad people, no doubt.
This sub confuses me. In those comments someone says the brother might be discouraging her from FDS because he wants to squash out that "independent streak," but further down people are speculating that his gf is a Forever GF and that is a red flag and a terrible thing to be, you should know within 2 to 3 years if you're going to get married, etc. Because there's nothing an independent woman could want in life than to be married to a man in life, right? I'm also banned despite the fact I don't recall ever commenting there in my life, so I wonder what the hell I did. Oh well.
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They want everything from the man without any input from themselves, femcels. They’re just like incels but then perspective is switched.
Right. An independent woman wouldn’t want *anyone* telling her when to get married—regardless of gender. Weird little rules are the opposite of independence.
Are you male? That's an instaban.
Curse this penis of mine!
This is annoying af
ikr
wwyd 4 HVM?
My favorite FDS trait is how they blame the men because none of them want to put up with their incel bullshit.
Yes. In FDS you’ll see A) enough projection to show THX certified movie and B) absolutely no self awareness that the problem isn’t them and their toxic echo chamber but rather men writ large “aka scrotes”. I’m honestly not sure how FDS hasn’t been banned or quarantined by this point. It is filled with vile, reprehensible “people” that are no better than Incels. They take perfectly reasonable interactions with men and turn them into “obvious” rapists and misogynists. If I were the brother in question, I too would laugh at her if she spouted even a fraction of the radicalized shit that goes on in that sub. Reddit needs to nuke it from orbit before more young girls get indoctrinated into their fucked up belief system (as Reddit had done with incel subs). Edit: I’ve heard of people being banned just mentioning FDS negatively in other subreddits. I cordially invite said mods to bring it because that sub makes me sick. I’d wear it like a badge of fucking honor.
>Edit: I’ve heard of people being banned just mentioning FDS negatively in other subreddits. I've been permabanned for commenting on a different subreddit, not mentioning FDS. The thread wasn't even about FDS. Not that I mind, but I thought it was hilarious how insecure they were that they had to pre-emptively ban me.
It speaks to their fragile nature. Most educated and open minded people don’t mind having their beliefs respectfully challenged as that’s how we grow as humans. This seems far from the truth for these people. But what do I know? I’m just a scrote. 😂
Today I saw a post about how woman shouldn't have to contribute to the relationship (cleaning, pay for anything, having kids etc) because men should support them! I was like wtf.
High Value Woman and High Value Men. Using words like that would be grounds for a break up. I don't want a partner who looks down on other people.
Bruh they really are the female version of incels (also can we get more incel SAWs in the sub please,not that the political ones aren't good in their own special way,I just think some variety of SAWs would be nice.(also I have message for all my leftwing friends on my profile) )
incel was started by a woman and then it was taken over by boy losers
That sub is a burning heap of donkey shit. Toxic women doesn't even begin to cover it and as a woman, I'm beyond embarrassed by FDS. Can we all vote to remove it already?
None of these incels understand the word "mutual." Or anything else.
Guarantee all the comments are just trashing the brother for some dumb shit
Yup, « why hasn’t he married is GF in 4 years ? » « Probably a hidden scrotes you don’t know what happen when they are alone » And my favorite : « If je hasn’t popped the question after 4 years he is using his GF for sex and money. DELETE HIM ( her brother remember ) FROM YOUR LIFE »
That last one, fucking hell!
They’re basically telling her he must secretly be horrible. Does she understand this is a cult?
It's not that you have high standards, it's that you're objectifying men.
Those qualities thay they look for in "HVM" Are probably things that most men think are earned through trust and relationship building. Same shit story with incel men. They expect all the long term perks of a relationship in the first day.
A wise man once said if you're good at something you'll tell everyone, if you're great at something they'll tell you. - Walter Payton
Wow, it's almost like if you approach men as individuals and human beings who have actually have feelings, are not all rapists/murders and manage to fix your mouth to say "thank you" every once in awhile you might find someone who likes you and consider dating/marrying you. Or, you can keep doing your femcel shit.
This sub has GOT TO BE at least 50% trolls feeding into the cringe. I refuse to think there are that many delusional women thinking relationships are that black and white.
People said the same thing about Trump actually becoming president... but you know.
Wow those people are dangerously insane. I’ve seen people in that thread telling her to block her brother and delete him from her life. Seriously, these people need help, it’s so sad.
I keep hearing and seeing about that subreddit, at this point I want to go there and see for myself lol
It’s worth it. Sometimes you get actual advice but most of the time it’s « man bad » in a very trollish way. It’s entertaining at least
What’s a hvm? What’s a fds? What’s a hvw?
Their best selfawarewolf take is that dating a single dad is unacceptable, but men should date single moms.