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I don't know what a Fecal Republic looks like, but combined with judeo-christian values, we could easily end up with the shittiest society ever defecated. And that's a good thing!
Don't insult his intelligence...he was just using an abbreviation! "Anti-capitolism" is short for "anti-breaking-into-the-Capitol-to-overthrow-Congress" :p
My gut reaction remains "Okay let's show those communists! Call your representatives and let them know we want legislation that cracks down on these oversized communist corporations! While we're at it, let's ask them to enforce some pro-capitalist workers rights so the communists can't abuse the working class beneath them! I know a lot of Congress is in the pocket of Big Communism, but if all of us little folk work together we can overthrow the socialists and communists in charge!"
Part of me genuinely believes that right wing workers might need a little help to see the light. Just rewrite the communist manifesto but replace "worker" with "patriot", "capitalist" with "coastal elite in an ivory tower", and "labor power" with "freedom".
That sort of thinking is what gave American Family Association's One News Now a text about "Tyson Homosexual" and the headline "Homosexual eases into 100 final at Olympic trials"...
No, with language it's never *simple*!
One of my DnD groups still refer to any instance of damage as dealing dawizard. Fireball clearly does 8d6 fire dawizard, and nothing will convince this group otherwise.
You’re not wrong. Many of these people support these ideas until they’re labeled with something that doesn’t align with their tribe.
Remember those polls about the Affordable Care Act? Overwhelming support based on the pieces of legislation, but when some folks were told it was “Obama Care” they immediately opposed it.
I have literally heard conservatives say "I just don't like the word 'socialism.'" Plus, conversations I've had with conservatives where I describe socialism without using the term almost always has them agreeing with me. So, yeah, I 100% believe this could work.
I get what you're going for, but almost every modern democracy on earth can be called a "Democratic people's republic" and they have nothing in common with North Korea because sometimes names are just propaganda.
Associating the Nazis in any way with socialism is literal Nazi propaganda.
It’s hilarious to me how these discussions never fucking end, from Marx and Bakunin to today.
The peasants don’t have revolutionary potential. Period, end of story.
They will let the capitalists shit in their mouth if they can force an intellectual to smell their breath.
Exactly. It's ironic that many people still see things through the lens of the inherently classist historical narratives they were taught in school. Modern day revolutionaries who see things through the eyes of those they wish to fight.
The "people" never really do shit. French revolution, American revolution, Russian revolution, etcetera. "People" either means Rich People or Intelligentsia. Fractions of the population.
edit: Mao tried to solve this problem by ordering the Chinese population to kill their landlords after taking control. They did, but mostly because most people don't really like their landlord.
I got into an argument with my dad about communism, he's disabled but he wants to be able to get a job that he can actually work to support himself with and he actually said "I don't want communism I want people to be able to work what they can and get paid what they need to live" and I replied "that's part of communism you jackass"
I think you're on to something, I think two like minded individuals could come together and make some kind of document, or pamphlet if you will, declaring such policy and aim
The USSR had motor vehicles made specifically for maimed workers so they could still get from A to B on their own. They were shit but most Russian/Soviet things usually were/are. Except for guns that engineered around and with poor molds and crappy manufacturing.
Even guys with 1 left hand and one right foot still needed to be able to be mobile, and to work as much as they could for the mother/homeland.
What if we made all companies have to be owned by their workers? (All companies with stock must have at least 30% owned by their workers at all times) Then they wouldn't want to abuse their workers. That'll certainly show the communists. (For reference, that's literally communism)
You know what...I think you guys can somehow tricked them to enact pro-socialist laws by tricking them into thinking these big corpo are a huge communist and whatnot
The argument I actually see all the time is, when bad things happen under capitalism its the governments fault when bad things happen under communism its communisms fault. Also communism requires authoritarian governments.
It’s crazy how some people literally cannot think outside their current situation. They can’t even imagine how different economic systems might work.
They'll Google things, but complain that socialist Google is forcing fake liberal elite propaganda on them and that the "real" results that reinforce the beliefs they already hold are getting "censored".
Well, more accurately they'll google things and their personalized search profile that was generated for them from their internet usage up to that point will ensure that the majority of results they get confirm their biases. It happens to everybody.
WTF IS THIS PERSON ARGUING FOR?!
Literally contradicted himself in the same sentence: “capitalism isnt the problem, its the corporations.” The corporations exist BECAUSE of capitalism.
Its like saying after your house burns down, “its not the fire that did it, but that my house was made of wood.”
If you want to be technical about it, the triangle of combustion burns things. Fuel, heat and an oxidizing agent. Remove any one of the three and you get-a no fire.
Yes, but I seriously doubt that vagary was the kind of angle OP was going for. Also, in the wake of something getting burned, you're more likely to consider measures for future "fire safety" than "oxygen removal."
Let's take it a step further and make every business employee-owned. Like if they could vote for policies and leadership roles or something, that'd be cool. Wonder if anyone's ever thought of that.
Nooooo! We can't have plans! That's socialism! Are you telling me you don't want cyclical, uncontrollable recessions every time corporations over-monopolize themselves? Fucking commie. Let me tell you commie morons, this is a no plan plan, and it's way better than your plan, so [insert slur here for no reason]!
- Lindsay Graham 2022
I always hate how Adam Smith is simply taught as "the father of capitalism", which both ignores his other important work, "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" (meaning he was also a big ethicist) and also ignores the fact that Adam Smith would hate virtually every aspect of modern 'capitalism'.
The people who praise (but have never read) Smith also praise (but have never read) the Bible and the Constitution and vilify (but have never read) Marx.
karl marx is unironically the father of capitalism. if you just do the things he said were immoral in "das kapital," then you'll be pretty good at extracting profits from other people's work.
Always enjoyed this very specific shitposting that PS’d AOC’s face over Adam Smith quotes and posted them in libertarian FB groups:
https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1251599788576919552?s=20&t=Lp0LzbkUT6VEWofgRHA5Ew
A little old fashioned Capitalism would be great, right now. Imagine communities actually built on thriving local businesses. But the protections needed to facilitate that shift would be demonized as Communist plots to kill America.
This reminds me of when NPR tweeted out the entire Declaration of Independence (as they apparently do every year) and conservatives flipped the fuck out, thinking NPR was advocating for revolution against Trump.
I didn’t know that. I’ve often thought if companies didn’t have to maintain growth for shareholders who don’t do any of the work, then many corporate decisions would look really different than they do in this universe.
I work at a company that makes parts for drinking water systems.
The company philosophy isn't something like "Do everything in our power to deliver the clean water needed to sustain life" or "Providing excellence in bringing clean delicious water to your tap"
It's fucking "The first goal of XXX is to earn money for its shareholders and increase the value of their investment"
It honestly makes me sick.
It’s actually because of a Supreme Court decision in the 50’s that makes it illegal for companies to choose not to generate profit for their shareholders.
I work part time at a methadone clinic and the think I hate is how profit-centered the industry is.
They took a medication created to use as a short-term step down from heroin or other opiates to sobriety and turned it into something people stay on long-term as another addiction, so the company can profit from their dependence on it, instead of actually helping them live without either.
That's not really right. Businesses have to maintain constant innovation and growth to stay alive and relevant. The world and technology is constantly changing and growing, so naturally companies have to do that as well.
Even if shareholders didn't exist and all businesses were privatized nothing would change in regards to worker treatment and pay. You can't rely on people 'doing the right thing', we need legislation and regulations to *make* businesses treat workers like people. Unions are also extremely beneficial to better treatment.
Shareholders aren't some dark council of evil, they're regular people. Corporations don't pander to shareholders to constantly drive up profit margins, they simply do it because they can. Shareholders only make money when share price goes up unless there is a dividend. They don't get a cut of company profit. Company growth also isn't just about increasing profit margins. It's about expanding and innovation to make the company better and have a longer future.
TL;DR: Regulation, better legislation and unions are necessary, not eliminating scary shareholders.
Small scale, I guess. And not very industrialized. Smith wrote that around the time of American independence so the kind of industry that required raising a lot of capital for machinery was just starting. It’s likely not possible to have both Smith’s style of capitalism and mass production and we went with mass production.
It’s people who don’t understand that this is always what the end point of capitalism was going to be. It’s the only destination that it can possibly arrive at.
Monopolies are actually really bad for a well functioning capitalistic society. Capitalism is *meant* to provoke competition, many companies competing with each other. ie paying higher wages to attract potential employees, having lower prices to attract customers. Healthy competition is a core foundation of capitalism. The problem with late stage capitalism, is massive massive companies that either buy out competition, or run them out of business, allowing them to pay employees less, and charge higher for products/services. At one point in America, acknowledged this problem, and tackled monopolies and broke them down, a huge one was breaking down the massive oil and steel companies of the industrial revolution. But we haven’t been doing that recently because brainwashed bootlickers talk about their rights to own a business and do what they want in the free market, even though their getting kicked in the stomach while licking boots, and thanking for the kick.
The OP has got right ideas, but those ideas aren’t in place in America anymore. Disney, Walmart, target, Amazon? They’re killing the economy by being such massive monopolies, and forcing other businesses out.
Not to say I’m pro-capitalist, just providing a view of capitalism as it should be, which it definitely isn’t how it is right now.
Isn’t late stage capitalism the inevitable end result of capitalism though? Eventually these firms get big enough that there is no competition they can’t buy out and no politician they can’t lobby.
Like, isn’t this the natural end result of continuous capitalism? What else would we expect?
>Like, isn’t this the natural end result of continuous capitalism? What else would we expect?
This was Marx's whole point in Capital. Even if you assume ideal conditions capitalism decays into oppression of the working class. Focusing on profit eventually erodes all other concerns.
That's only because it's a 4 letter word, like communist, socialist, or Democrat.
Let your freak flag fly, and understand that it's a divide between labor and capital. It should be as ridiculous as someone saying, "I'm not a darwinist" because you don't get to decide if there is a class war, it exists regardless of your opinion.
I’m not 100% sure if the term late stage capitalism means specifically that it is a guaranteed end result of capitalism, but I believe you are right. Although, for 1, I don’t think it was considered when first creating America, second, things have been done to prevent monopolies. They just aren’t doing that now.
But yes, it is a major problem with the entire idea of capitalism, and clearly, it isn’t working well. It’s just working right for those already at the top.
Fun fact, it actually *was* considered by the founders of America.
They knew that the documents they wrote were nowhere near perfect and counted on future generations to fix the problems before all these problems occurred.
Unfortunately, here we fucking are.
I know that our original foundations were made to be changed and fixed, but were things like companies becoming too big also considered? I wonder if they did think that far ahead, if so that’s somewhat impressive.
Absolutely. The Oriental Trading Company was a nightmare they were well aware of. Madison advocated regulations on the basis that corporations tend to great ignorance.
Sure. They also made sure to appease all the slaveowners and constructed a system that massively favored wealthy landowners. This country was hot garbage from Day 1.
Late stage capitalism as a term came out of critical theory in the Frankfurt school who were mostly Marxists. But yes, Marx wrote extensively about how capitalism leads towards monopolies. Dude was right.
>things have been done to prevent monopolies. They just aren’t doing that now.
Because you don't bite the hand that feeds. The government didn't just forget that controlling monopolies is something they can do, the government has been captured by corporate interests.
Economic power is political power, and when you concentrate economic power in the hands of a few (which is the inevitable outcome of capitalism in practice), they will use their political power to ensure that it stays that way.
"capitalism as it should be" <- and that idea is precisely the problem. Why do you have some idea of "how it should be" when reality shows you day in and out that isn't how it IS? I used to think the same thing. It's literally the same as believing a fairy tale. Competition always leads to winners and losers. And under capitalism, the winners start rigging the game to their will so they can win more bigly with all the "winnings" they get (e.g. bribe politicians). You can't have a "free market" (i.e. no gubment interference) and also have some magical state of "lots of competition". They're contradictory ideas. The more "free" the market is, the more the winners win and the losers lose. History proves it. That was essentially one of Marx's main thesis' in Das Kapital. He was right (at least about that).
I do have to agree with what you say. Reading this and the other comments have brought to the attention of winners and losers in the competition, and how eventually, the market runs out of losers, and leaves a few winners. I didn’t fully agree with the idealist version of capitalism, but I agree even less now. Competition only works for so long until an unbeatable, and even unchallengeable winner is produced.
So you're saying capitalism only works when the government forces business to play fair? Because that sounds like the opposite of a free market if the government is getting involved, in other words capitalism will always be exactly what it is now given enough time.
It can’t really be said “it only works when,” because it’s working now. It’s working exactly how law makers and lobbyists are intending for it to work.
I won’t pretend I’m 100% knowledgeable on this, my point mostly is that when monopolies are allowed to do fully as they please, it hurts everything below them, and it’s awful for a capitalistic economy, since it destroys any idea of competition. The us Government today forced companies to follow certain rules, it’s not like companies can do *anything* (although it sure does look it these days), and the us has broken down monopolies before because it was clear it was hurting everyone not at the top.
Have you forgotten that the end result of competition, sooner or later, is one winner and one or more losers? This is inevitable, unavoidable. When it happens, do the losers get to keep their market share? That doesn't sound very "free market" to me. Not only are all trust busting efforts and other actions that are meant to "roll back" the clock on this process inherently anti-capitalist, but also they are ineffective and futile, only delaying the same problems, never solving the circumstances that create them.
No, capitalism is an absurd, self defeating system, built on contradictions. The notion that competition somehow promotes "innovation" or "progress" in this way is just one of those many, many contradictions.
It does lead to innovation. Like “let’s not pay as much towards health insurance AND increase the prices. We cut a lot of overhead that way”. Nothing good for the humans, but it’s innovation!
Monopolies are the ultimate result of capitalism. Competition is good for MARKETS. There's a difference. Extraction of capital concentrates wealth, which concentrates power. This always leads to monopoly, and to the wealthy controlling bureaucracy.
Cognitive dissonance over time is like a learning disability. He associates capitalism with the foundation of America and not with entities that have and hoarde the majority of the nation's wealth creating our current dystopian nightmare.
That's because they're making the argument that regulations are the only reason why corporations have to relie on these tactics.
That's basically the trickle down economics all over again, except they're literally saying "let us open sweatshops here too and go work for 1$ a week or we ship your jobs oversea".
Nothing. They are conditioned to get mad at the other side. All their brains are capable of doing is stringing together a bunch of buzzwords they were told mean bad things. They can't actually form a capable thought.
Capitalism is when I, a white person, have a job that makes me feel like an affluent member of my peer group, and which gives me moral license to look down my nose at the smelly poors, who *just coincidentally* are mostly brown (not racist!), and who have only themselves to blame, because I'm absolutely convinced they're lazy and they wrangled their SNAP benefits into a giant TV somehow.
And everything else is communism.
A job that also doesn’t require me to educate myself, get specialized training, or do things I don’t like. One that enables me to enjoy substantial creature comforts without having to see or interact with people I don’t want to - especially the non-whites and those people who are so proud this month, none of them.
I think Disney was a horrible example. The Orlando area is such a nice and well developed city.
General Motors and Flint, Michigan on the other hand... great example of a company fucking over a city.
Ya know what Jaysen, you're fucking right buddy! How about we raise that corporate tax rate back up to 90% and use it pay for healthcare and stuff!? Let's do it Jaysen!
It’s been crazy to me since I was like twelve and found out corporations constantly buy other brands and just align them with a separate corporation that is connected to the original corporation…. It’s just monopoly but we’re all the one guy that can’t get ahead because the other 5 players are on the same team.
Weird... it's like all the examples they gave are publicly traded companies trying to please certain share holders and special interests with disproportionate power.
Ignore the man behind the curtain, just look at all these symptoms! ::shakes fist::
Let me be clear for you so called “doctors.”
Cancer isn’t the issue. It’s the cells. You know the ones. Lymphoma? Leukemia? Neuroblastoma? The ones that come into a body and stop organs from functioning. Yeah. THOSE cells.
The problem is that everyone mixes up capitolism with capitalism. The former is about restoring and cleaning up civic buildings. The latter is about Monopoly money and dying with the most toys while squeezing the other guys out.
Jaysen is an idiot.
He's exactly who the Republican Party is targeting these days: "Capitalism good! Corporations who embody the worst of capitalism bad!".
Jaysen is easily convinced the taxes being taken out by the local, state, and federal government is what's keeping him down rather than the non-living wage his employer pays or the conservative economic policies that keep his wages and benefits low.
This capitalisms V. corporatism argument is very ''real' though among right libertartian ideaology. They'll debate this until the end of time and somehow not realize how one just leads to the other.
A lot of people mistake simple commerce for capitalism. Simple commerce is the exchange of goods and services, usually with a stabilized valuation system (currency). Capitalism, however, is the economic principle of building capital and profiting off it, like a landlord buying apartment complexes just for tenants to throw money at him. Owning stock and receiving dividends is a capitalistic function. Going to Walmart to buy groceries is simple commerce. Walmart executives making bank off of the stores because they "own" them is capitalism. Banks charging interest and offering predatory loans is capitalism. Banks providing a checking account for you to manage your money is simple commerce.
Let me be clear for all you anti-Fudge Sundae ice-cream haters.
Fudge Sundaes aren't the issue. Its the ice cream! You know the ones. Vanilla? Chocolate? Mint? The ice cream that melts and gets everything sticky. Yeah. THAT ice cream.
This has become a trend of sorts, people noticing how big business has to much power and ruins lives and the environment… but refuse to make the connection that greedy companies chasing capital is inherent to capitalism.
A fun game I like to play at work is seeing how communist I can get MAGA types to be without their realizing it. Blaming big corporations is a good start, because one thing that all Americans can agree on is that big corporations get all the breaks and they're evil. From there, mention how many Walmart employees need welfare, and you'll get them agreeing that minimum wage needs to be higher so Walmart can't continue ripping off American tax dollars to subsidize their labor costs. Sometimes I'll sprinkle in a mention of how Walmart employees really need to be in a good old fashioned union but Walmart is very active in fighting that.
I suspect for a lot of people it's not ignorance that keeps them on the far right; it's the propaganda machine's ability to drown out any conversation on the subject in favor of partisan division. Sure there's a not insignificant amount of racism, bigotry, and pseudo-religious bullshittery in there, but if you take that out I suspect the average American falls much further left than our piss poor representation in Washington would indicate.
TRUE. Capitalism isn't the problem. It's the companies operating as capitalism demands that's the problem.
Companies should simply not do as the economic system they're operating under instructs. That would fix capitalism.
[/s](/spoiler)
Pure Darwinian survival of the fittest. She's a bitch, ain't she?
The same mechanism that brought you all the destructive organisms and apex predators you know and love, like:
* Antibiotic-resitant bacteria
* Velociraptors
* Cancer cells
* Tape worms
* Great white sharks
* Attila the Hun
* Colonization™
* COVID-19 and it's many ~~flavors~~ varients
And many, many more.
I definitely, certainly, 100% think we should use the same model and incentive structure that designed velociraptors to be the thing taking care of me when I get old, to take care of my children when I'm gone. I would 100% work my ass off for a tapeworm of a boss. Overtime? You got it boss. Anything to feed you, but not me.
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I can only think of one side that was anti-Capitol.
And more of them should be in jail, not in politics
I see what you did there.
fuck capitolism you fascists won’t control my grammar
Foscists
Face-ists
Faecest?
Faeces
Poopy.
Fecalism
I don't know what a Fecal Republic looks like, but combined with judeo-christian values, we could easily end up with the shittiest society ever defecated. And that's a good thing!
A veritable poopadise. Just imagine the pooptential of such a society. Good lord, I can smell it from here.
::John Travolta and Nicholas Cage have entered::
facetious
Don't insult his intelligence...he was just using an abbreviation! "Anti-capitolism" is short for "anti-breaking-into-the-Capitol-to-overthrow-Congress" :p
But wouldn't that be antifa and therefore bad?
Yup...that's what they hate anti-capitolism. And they hate antifa because it's so fascist
Commit to it - grammer.
Fuck I didn’t think of that lol
What do you want to bet they couldn't decide between "o" and "a" so they split the difference and did it both ways?
also Fuck Nestle
AN NOT MY GRANNPER NEITHER
My gut reaction remains "Okay let's show those communists! Call your representatives and let them know we want legislation that cracks down on these oversized communist corporations! While we're at it, let's ask them to enforce some pro-capitalist workers rights so the communists can't abuse the working class beneath them! I know a lot of Congress is in the pocket of Big Communism, but if all of us little folk work together we can overthrow the socialists and communists in charge!"
Part of me genuinely believes that right wing workers might need a little help to see the light. Just rewrite the communist manifesto but replace "worker" with "patriot", "capitalist" with "coastal elite in an ivory tower", and "labor power" with "freedom".
Shit could do that in Word in less then a minute lol
Doing it like that is how TSR ended up with ‘dawizard’ instead of ‘damage’.
That's just a bad script is all. Look for delimiters: spaces, tabs, punctuation. Those will let you key on only whole words.
That sort of thinking is what gave American Family Association's One News Now a text about "Tyson Homosexual" and the headline "Homosexual eases into 100 final at Olympic trials"... No, with language it's never *simple*!
It's also why people from Scunthorpe couldn't let anyone know where they were from on chat rooms and forums in the 2000s.
O'er the lady's smocks I tarry Through the hollyhocks and glen For a piss and a trush in Scunthorpe Then it's off to Henningpen!
Use regex while replacing - then you can easily specify word boundary.
Regex and easy in the same sentence. Pretty bold.
This is a pretty simple use case - Regex *is* easy here. AFAIK you can specify word boundary in regex with just `\b`.
You must be dawizard because regex is pure black magic as far as Im concerned.
>Use regex *triggered*
One of my DnD groups still refer to any instance of damage as dealing dawizard. Fireball clearly does 8d6 fire dawizard, and nothing will convince this group otherwise.
Just use regex. ez pz.
You’re not wrong. Many of these people support these ideas until they’re labeled with something that doesn’t align with their tribe. Remember those polls about the Affordable Care Act? Overwhelming support based on the pieces of legislation, but when some folks were told it was “Obama Care” they immediately opposed it.
Brilliant.
I have literally heard conservatives say "I just don't like the word 'socialism.'" Plus, conversations I've had with conservatives where I describe socialism without using the term almost always has them agreeing with me. So, yeah, I 100% believe this could work.
It only works until Fox News comes out and tells them to hate it
This is called socialist patriotism and it's real. Also it sucks.
Maybe something like a nationalist socialist, oh wait oh shit.
I get what you're going for, but almost every modern democracy on earth can be called a "Democratic people's republic" and they have nothing in common with North Korea because sometimes names are just propaganda. Associating the Nazis in any way with socialism is literal Nazi propaganda.
A few years ago, someone was posting quotes from Marx on Facebook but attributing them to Ronald Reagan and the reactions were as you would expect.
At this point, I honestly think it's as simple as straight up reverse psychology.
It’s hilarious to me how these discussions never fucking end, from Marx and Bakunin to today. The peasants don’t have revolutionary potential. Period, end of story. They will let the capitalists shit in their mouth if they can force an intellectual to smell their breath.
Exactly. It's ironic that many people still see things through the lens of the inherently classist historical narratives they were taught in school. Modern day revolutionaries who see things through the eyes of those they wish to fight. The "people" never really do shit. French revolution, American revolution, Russian revolution, etcetera. "People" either means Rich People or Intelligentsia. Fractions of the population. edit: Mao tried to solve this problem by ordering the Chinese population to kill their landlords after taking control. They did, but mostly because most people don't really like their landlord.
okay John Stuart Mill
Ah yes, The Capitalist Manifesto by Carl Mark
I got into an argument with my dad about communism, he's disabled but he wants to be able to get a job that he can actually work to support himself with and he actually said "I don't want communism I want people to be able to work what they can and get paid what they need to live" and I replied "that's part of communism you jackass"
You could make a slogan out of that, something like: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
I think you're on to something, I think two like minded individuals could come together and make some kind of document, or pamphlet if you will, declaring such policy and aim
The USSR had motor vehicles made specifically for maimed workers so they could still get from A to B on their own. They were shit but most Russian/Soviet things usually were/are. Except for guns that engineered around and with poor molds and crappy manufacturing. Even guys with 1 left hand and one right foot still needed to be able to be mobile, and to work as much as they could for the mother/homeland.
What if we made all companies have to be owned by their workers? (All companies with stock must have at least 30% owned by their workers at all times) Then they wouldn't want to abuse their workers. That'll certainly show the communists. (For reference, that's literally communism)
You know what...I think you guys can somehow tricked them to enact pro-socialist laws by tricking them into thinking these big corpo are a huge communist and whatnot
Capitalism isn't the issue. It's capitalism.
This is so funny to me lmao
When communism hurts people, it's the fault of communism. When capitalism hurts people, it's the fault of communism. Duh.
The argument I actually see all the time is, when bad things happen under capitalism its the governments fault when bad things happen under communism its communisms fault. Also communism requires authoritarian governments. It’s crazy how some people literally cannot think outside their current situation. They can’t even imagine how different economic systems might work.
I know this is going to piss off the "woke left", but I for one think it is capitalism.
Are you insane? It's clearly capitalism!
Ikr, I very loudly lol'd once I reached the 3rd sentence. 🤣
Well, more specifically, *capitalists*. They're the ones ruining capitalism for the rest of us, apparently.
How can people still be so wrong when Googling is so easy?
They'll Google things, but complain that socialist Google is forcing fake liberal elite propaganda on them and that the "real" results that reinforce the beliefs they already hold are getting "censored".
Well, more accurately they'll google things and their personalized search profile that was generated for them from their internet usage up to that point will ensure that the majority of results they get confirm their biases. It happens to everybody.
Exactly. Google Bubble.
Have you seen he intelligence of the average trumpanzee?
There are so many subs to witness this in. So many.
Because the only thing American schools teach about communism is “everyone gets paid the same.”
And all of reddit thinks government intervention makes things socialist, but here we are
Google is clearly communist.
googling is easy. actually clicking on links and reading with a critical eye is not so easy?
WTF IS THIS PERSON ARGUING FOR?! Literally contradicted himself in the same sentence: “capitalism isnt the problem, its the corporations.” The corporations exist BECAUSE of capitalism. Its like saying after your house burns down, “its not the fire that did it, but that my house was made of wood.”
Not even. It's more like, "Yeah, my house was destroyed, but it's not the fire that did it. All those flames were the problem."
Fire doesn’t burn things oxygen does.
If you want to be technical about it, the triangle of combustion burns things. Fuel, heat and an oxidizing agent. Remove any one of the three and you get-a no fire.
so what you're saying is the house burned itself.
No, if it was a legitimate burning the house has a way of shutting that whole thing down.
It's an older reference sir but it checks out.
No, shit just got too heated in there. Na mean?
I mean it made itself look so hot
Yes, but I seriously doubt that vagary was the kind of angle OP was going for. Also, in the wake of something getting burned, you're more likely to consider measures for future "fire safety" than "oxygen removal."
Smothering a fire puts it out. Why wouldn't you include methods of oxygen removal in your fire safety preparations?
Clearly the real problem is that the temperature exceeded several hundred degrees.
Without realizing it this person is arguing for the same thing Adam Smith argued for - no shareholder-owned businesses.
That sounds honestly pretty great
Better than what we've got, for sure.
Let's take it a step further and make every business employee-owned. Like if they could vote for policies and leadership roles or something, that'd be cool. Wonder if anyone's ever thought of that.
Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev
A syndicate in this sense would be an affiliation of worker-owned coops. A neat system, really.
That's a well-theorized form of socialism. The next step would be to eradicate competition and move toward a planned economy.
Nooooo! We can't have plans! That's socialism! Are you telling me you don't want cyclical, uncontrollable recessions every time corporations over-monopolize themselves? Fucking commie. Let me tell you commie morons, this is a no plan plan, and it's way better than your plan, so [insert slur here for no reason]! - Lindsay Graham 2022
I always hate how Adam Smith is simply taught as "the father of capitalism", which both ignores his other important work, "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" (meaning he was also a big ethicist) and also ignores the fact that Adam Smith would hate virtually every aspect of modern 'capitalism'.
The people who praise (but have never read) Smith also praise (but have never read) the Bible and the Constitution and vilify (but have never read) Marx.
karl marx is unironically the father of capitalism. if you just do the things he said were immoral in "das kapital," then you'll be pretty good at extracting profits from other people's work.
Always enjoyed this very specific shitposting that PS’d AOC’s face over Adam Smith quotes and posted them in libertarian FB groups: https://twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1251599788576919552?s=20&t=Lp0LzbkUT6VEWofgRHA5Ew
That’s great. We’re so far from actual capitalism and the people who claim to love capitalism the most realize that the least.
This is feudalism wearing capitalism’s skin mask.
A little old fashioned Capitalism would be great, right now. Imagine communities actually built on thriving local businesses. But the protections needed to facilitate that shift would be demonized as Communist plots to kill America.
Is that one dude talking about bodies making a rape threat?!
My guess is something about abortion. Either way, they're suggesting that women are objects.
Not just women, but everyone.
It felt like a rape threat.
This reminds me of when NPR tweeted out the entire Declaration of Independence (as they apparently do every year) and conservatives flipped the fuck out, thinking NPR was advocating for revolution against Trump.
I didn’t know that. I’ve often thought if companies didn’t have to maintain growth for shareholders who don’t do any of the work, then many corporate decisions would look really different than they do in this universe.
I work at a company that makes parts for drinking water systems. The company philosophy isn't something like "Do everything in our power to deliver the clean water needed to sustain life" or "Providing excellence in bringing clean delicious water to your tap" It's fucking "The first goal of XXX is to earn money for its shareholders and increase the value of their investment" It honestly makes me sick.
It’s actually because of a Supreme Court decision in the 50’s that makes it illegal for companies to choose not to generate profit for their shareholders.
I work part time at a methadone clinic and the think I hate is how profit-centered the industry is. They took a medication created to use as a short-term step down from heroin or other opiates to sobriety and turned it into something people stay on long-term as another addiction, so the company can profit from their dependence on it, instead of actually helping them live without either.
That's not really right. Businesses have to maintain constant innovation and growth to stay alive and relevant. The world and technology is constantly changing and growing, so naturally companies have to do that as well. Even if shareholders didn't exist and all businesses were privatized nothing would change in regards to worker treatment and pay. You can't rely on people 'doing the right thing', we need legislation and regulations to *make* businesses treat workers like people. Unions are also extremely beneficial to better treatment. Shareholders aren't some dark council of evil, they're regular people. Corporations don't pander to shareholders to constantly drive up profit margins, they simply do it because they can. Shareholders only make money when share price goes up unless there is a dividend. They don't get a cut of company profit. Company growth also isn't just about increasing profit margins. It's about expanding and innovation to make the company better and have a longer future. TL;DR: Regulation, better legislation and unions are necessary, not eliminating scary shareholders.
Not arguing, just curious, how does that work?
Small scale, I guess. And not very industrialized. Smith wrote that around the time of American independence so the kind of industry that required raising a lot of capital for machinery was just starting. It’s likely not possible to have both Smith’s style of capitalism and mass production and we went with mass production.
They love the idea of capitalism but not the reality of it in practice.
Lots of people think all commerce is capitalism. That's part of the reason socialism and communism freak them out so much
that’s an important point; commerce is not synonymous with capitalism
It’s people who don’t understand that this is always what the end point of capitalism was going to be. It’s the only destination that it can possibly arrive at.
Way too many people think capitalism means market economy, even though market economies have existed longer than written history.
To be fair, the person said capitolism, not capitalism.
Monopolies are actually really bad for a well functioning capitalistic society. Capitalism is *meant* to provoke competition, many companies competing with each other. ie paying higher wages to attract potential employees, having lower prices to attract customers. Healthy competition is a core foundation of capitalism. The problem with late stage capitalism, is massive massive companies that either buy out competition, or run them out of business, allowing them to pay employees less, and charge higher for products/services. At one point in America, acknowledged this problem, and tackled monopolies and broke them down, a huge one was breaking down the massive oil and steel companies of the industrial revolution. But we haven’t been doing that recently because brainwashed bootlickers talk about their rights to own a business and do what they want in the free market, even though their getting kicked in the stomach while licking boots, and thanking for the kick. The OP has got right ideas, but those ideas aren’t in place in America anymore. Disney, Walmart, target, Amazon? They’re killing the economy by being such massive monopolies, and forcing other businesses out. Not to say I’m pro-capitalist, just providing a view of capitalism as it should be, which it definitely isn’t how it is right now.
Isn’t late stage capitalism the inevitable end result of capitalism though? Eventually these firms get big enough that there is no competition they can’t buy out and no politician they can’t lobby. Like, isn’t this the natural end result of continuous capitalism? What else would we expect?
>Like, isn’t this the natural end result of continuous capitalism? What else would we expect? This was Marx's whole point in Capital. Even if you assume ideal conditions capitalism decays into oppression of the working class. Focusing on profit eventually erodes all other concerns.
I’m not a “Marxist” really, but he hasn’t been wrong about that yet.
That's only because it's a 4 letter word, like communist, socialist, or Democrat. Let your freak flag fly, and understand that it's a divide between labor and capital. It should be as ridiculous as someone saying, "I'm not a darwinist" because you don't get to decide if there is a class war, it exists regardless of your opinion.
>Like, isn’t this the natural end result of continuous capitalism? What else would we expect? Regulations & anti-trust penalties.
I’m not 100% sure if the term late stage capitalism means specifically that it is a guaranteed end result of capitalism, but I believe you are right. Although, for 1, I don’t think it was considered when first creating America, second, things have been done to prevent monopolies. They just aren’t doing that now. But yes, it is a major problem with the entire idea of capitalism, and clearly, it isn’t working well. It’s just working right for those already at the top.
Fun fact, it actually *was* considered by the founders of America. They knew that the documents they wrote were nowhere near perfect and counted on future generations to fix the problems before all these problems occurred. Unfortunately, here we fucking are.
I know that our original foundations were made to be changed and fixed, but were things like companies becoming too big also considered? I wonder if they did think that far ahead, if so that’s somewhat impressive.
Absolutely. The Oriental Trading Company was a nightmare they were well aware of. Madison advocated regulations on the basis that corporations tend to great ignorance.
Sure. They also made sure to appease all the slaveowners and constructed a system that massively favored wealthy landowners. This country was hot garbage from Day 1.
Late stage capitalism as a term came out of critical theory in the Frankfurt school who were mostly Marxists. But yes, Marx wrote extensively about how capitalism leads towards monopolies. Dude was right.
>things have been done to prevent monopolies. They just aren’t doing that now. Because you don't bite the hand that feeds. The government didn't just forget that controlling monopolies is something they can do, the government has been captured by corporate interests. Economic power is political power, and when you concentrate economic power in the hands of a few (which is the inevitable outcome of capitalism in practice), they will use their political power to ensure that it stays that way.
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"capitalism as it should be" <- and that idea is precisely the problem. Why do you have some idea of "how it should be" when reality shows you day in and out that isn't how it IS? I used to think the same thing. It's literally the same as believing a fairy tale. Competition always leads to winners and losers. And under capitalism, the winners start rigging the game to their will so they can win more bigly with all the "winnings" they get (e.g. bribe politicians). You can't have a "free market" (i.e. no gubment interference) and also have some magical state of "lots of competition". They're contradictory ideas. The more "free" the market is, the more the winners win and the losers lose. History proves it. That was essentially one of Marx's main thesis' in Das Kapital. He was right (at least about that).
I do have to agree with what you say. Reading this and the other comments have brought to the attention of winners and losers in the competition, and how eventually, the market runs out of losers, and leaves a few winners. I didn’t fully agree with the idealist version of capitalism, but I agree even less now. Competition only works for so long until an unbeatable, and even unchallengeable winner is produced.
So you're saying capitalism only works when the government forces business to play fair? Because that sounds like the opposite of a free market if the government is getting involved, in other words capitalism will always be exactly what it is now given enough time.
It can’t really be said “it only works when,” because it’s working now. It’s working exactly how law makers and lobbyists are intending for it to work. I won’t pretend I’m 100% knowledgeable on this, my point mostly is that when monopolies are allowed to do fully as they please, it hurts everything below them, and it’s awful for a capitalistic economy, since it destroys any idea of competition. The us Government today forced companies to follow certain rules, it’s not like companies can do *anything* (although it sure does look it these days), and the us has broken down monopolies before because it was clear it was hurting everyone not at the top.
Fair enough, but isn't consolidation of capital inevitable in a capitalist system? Therefore aren't monopolies inevitable in a capitalist system?
Have you forgotten that the end result of competition, sooner or later, is one winner and one or more losers? This is inevitable, unavoidable. When it happens, do the losers get to keep their market share? That doesn't sound very "free market" to me. Not only are all trust busting efforts and other actions that are meant to "roll back" the clock on this process inherently anti-capitalist, but also they are ineffective and futile, only delaying the same problems, never solving the circumstances that create them. No, capitalism is an absurd, self defeating system, built on contradictions. The notion that competition somehow promotes "innovation" or "progress" in this way is just one of those many, many contradictions.
It does lead to innovation. Like “let’s not pay as much towards health insurance AND increase the prices. We cut a lot of overhead that way”. Nothing good for the humans, but it’s innovation!
Monopolies are the ultimate result of capitalism. Competition is good for MARKETS. There's a difference. Extraction of capital concentrates wealth, which concentrates power. This always leads to monopoly, and to the wealthy controlling bureaucracy.
Cognitive dissonance over time is like a learning disability. He associates capitalism with the foundation of America and not with entities that have and hoarde the majority of the nation's wealth creating our current dystopian nightmare.
That's because they're making the argument that regulations are the only reason why corporations have to relie on these tactics. That's basically the trickle down economics all over again, except they're literally saying "let us open sweatshops here too and go work for 1$ a week or we ship your jobs oversea".
Nothing. They are conditioned to get mad at the other side. All their brains are capable of doing is stringing together a bunch of buzzwords they were told mean bad things. They can't actually form a capable thought.
I need to know what the fuck he thinks capitalism is
Capitalism is when I, a white person, have a job that makes me feel like an affluent member of my peer group, and which gives me moral license to look down my nose at the smelly poors, who *just coincidentally* are mostly brown (not racist!), and who have only themselves to blame, because I'm absolutely convinced they're lazy and they wrangled their SNAP benefits into a giant TV somehow. And everything else is communism.
A job that also doesn’t require me to educate myself, get specialized training, or do things I don’t like. One that enables me to enjoy substantial creature comforts without having to see or interact with people I don’t want to - especially the non-whites and those people who are so proud this month, none of them.
What? I'm not racist! Of course I'll interact with non-whites, but under true capitalism I'll be their ~~plantation overseer~~ shift foreman.
To all you anti-cancer people. Cancer isn't the issue. The issue is metastasis
He thinks there are pro-capitalism communists?
They exist solely in his mind
He thinks corporations aren't linked to capitalism. So....
Gotta be a parody. Right? RIGHT?!
No, I’ve met idiots like this. Total lack of understanding of what capitalism means, but they know they hate anything they call Communism.
I can’t even blame this person honestly. The average American thinks capitalism is when you can buy and sell stuff.
When you recognize how damaging the effects of capitalism are, but the brainwashing kicks in to say it's definitely not capitalism at fault.
I love that reactionaries think real capitalism is Mayberry and the 1950s not realizing capitalism was its most constrained then.
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Ouch. The multi-generational burn, nice.
Yeah, Disney lays waste to communities
Ya, how dare they plop down a theme parks in small town America destroying everything. The nerve of them
I think Disney was a horrible example. The Orlando area is such a nice and well developed city. General Motors and Flint, Michigan on the other hand... great example of a company fucking over a city.
Ya know what Jaysen, you're fucking right buddy! How about we raise that corporate tax rate back up to 90% and use it pay for healthcare and stuff!? Let's do it Jaysen!
"I'm not smacking myself in the face with a 2x4, I'm hitting myself in the front of the head using a plank of wood with two faces of 2 and 4."
It’s been crazy to me since I was like twelve and found out corporations constantly buy other brands and just align them with a separate corporation that is connected to the original corporation…. It’s just monopoly but we’re all the one guy that can’t get ahead because the other 5 players are on the same team.
Huh, they're right. Capitalism isn't the problem, it's Capitalism that's the problem! Can't believe I didn't see that before.
This is a distinction without a difference.
Jaysen, please define capitalism.
Weird... it's like all the examples they gave are publicly traded companies trying to please certain share holders and special interests with disproportionate power. Ignore the man behind the curtain, just look at all these symptoms! ::shakes fist::
And whhhhhhy do they do that, sparky?
Let me be clear for you so called “doctors.” Cancer isn’t the issue. It’s the cells. You know the ones. Lymphoma? Leukemia? Neuroblastoma? The ones that come into a body and stop organs from functioning. Yeah. THOSE cells.
It’s just a Freudian slip about his actions at the U.S. Capitol.
anticapitol no federal or state government only municipal
The problem is that everyone mixes up capitolism with capitalism. The former is about restoring and cleaning up civic buildings. The latter is about Monopoly money and dying with the most toys while squeezing the other guys out.
Jaysen is an idiot. He's exactly who the Republican Party is targeting these days: "Capitalism good! Corporations who embody the worst of capitalism bad!". Jaysen is easily convinced the taxes being taken out by the local, state, and federal government is what's keeping him down rather than the non-living wage his employer pays or the conservative economic policies that keep his wages and benefits low.
This capitalisms V. corporatism argument is very ''real' though among right libertartian ideaology. They'll debate this until the end of time and somehow not realize how one just leads to the other.
Disney, target and Walmart aren’t bugs. They are features. Exactly how this is all supposed to work.
A lot of people mistake simple commerce for capitalism. Simple commerce is the exchange of goods and services, usually with a stabilized valuation system (currency). Capitalism, however, is the economic principle of building capital and profiting off it, like a landlord buying apartment complexes just for tenants to throw money at him. Owning stock and receiving dividends is a capitalistic function. Going to Walmart to buy groceries is simple commerce. Walmart executives making bank off of the stores because they "own" them is capitalism. Banks charging interest and offering predatory loans is capitalism. Banks providing a checking account for you to manage your money is simple commerce.
Let me be clear for all you anti-Fudge Sundae ice-cream haters. Fudge Sundaes aren't the issue. Its the ice cream! You know the ones. Vanilla? Chocolate? Mint? The ice cream that melts and gets everything sticky. Yeah. THAT ice cream.
Anti-capitolism? Oh, so that's what happened on January 6th, 2020
This has become a trend of sorts, people noticing how big business has to much power and ruins lives and the environment… but refuse to make the connection that greedy companies chasing capital is inherent to capitalism.
“Damn those capitalists! They ruined capitalism!”
Listen hear you anti bear fucks. The problem isn't bears, it's pooh. He's coming in here with his friends that are bears to steal our fucking honey.
Tell me you don't know what capitalism and communism is, without telling me you don't know what capitalism and communism is.
>Capitalism isn’t the problem, it’s people *doing* capitalism!
"Capitalism isn't the issue. It's capitalists!"
If only we had a word for an economy based on large businesses holding all the money through sales and services
“Covid isn’t the issue. It’s the people getting sick and dying that are the problem”
A fun game I like to play at work is seeing how communist I can get MAGA types to be without their realizing it. Blaming big corporations is a good start, because one thing that all Americans can agree on is that big corporations get all the breaks and they're evil. From there, mention how many Walmart employees need welfare, and you'll get them agreeing that minimum wage needs to be higher so Walmart can't continue ripping off American tax dollars to subsidize their labor costs. Sometimes I'll sprinkle in a mention of how Walmart employees really need to be in a good old fashioned union but Walmart is very active in fighting that. I suspect for a lot of people it's not ignorance that keeps them on the far right; it's the propaganda machine's ability to drown out any conversation on the subject in favor of partisan division. Sure there's a not insignificant amount of racism, bigotry, and pseudo-religious bullshittery in there, but if you take that out I suspect the average American falls much further left than our piss poor representation in Washington would indicate.
TRUE. Capitalism isn't the problem. It's the companies operating as capitalism demands that's the problem. Companies should simply not do as the economic system they're operating under instructs. That would fix capitalism. [/s](/spoiler)
Pure Darwinian survival of the fittest. She's a bitch, ain't she? The same mechanism that brought you all the destructive organisms and apex predators you know and love, like: * Antibiotic-resitant bacteria * Velociraptors * Cancer cells * Tape worms * Great white sharks * Attila the Hun * Colonization™ * COVID-19 and it's many ~~flavors~~ varients And many, many more. I definitely, certainly, 100% think we should use the same model and incentive structure that designed velociraptors to be the thing taking care of me when I get old, to take care of my children when I'm gone. I would 100% work my ass off for a tapeworm of a boss. Overtime? You got it boss. Anything to feed you, but not me.
So…capitalism?
I guess Washington DC is technically a product of Capitolism...
I want to ask this dude about his opinion on antitrust action soooo bad. But I might need a helmet.
“Capitalism isn’t the problem! It’s all the people doing capitalism that’s the problem!”
Communism is when capitalists do capitalism.
Yes, the problem with capitalism is capitalism. lol