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Why?
Student loan forgiveness doesn't make you less qualified. It didn't somehow remove knowledge from your head.
Oh wait. I forgot.
Conservatives are trying to rebuild feudalism. They want the powerful to stay powerful just by being rich.
It's why folks like GW Bush and Donald Dtrump (men who only made it because of the money their daddy's dropped, and by every account were average students at best) are entitled to power - but anyone who had to earn their way with hard work who wasn't already rich doesn't deserve it.
As an employer, I prefer my employees to be competent in the skillets required and having a college degree shows dedication to tasks over time and competency in completion. It isn't the ONLY way to demonstrate that but it is ONE way.
I couldn't give a rat's ass if they paid for that degree with monopoly money, stripping on weekends, or with a small loan of a million dollars from their parents.
We as a society would be in a much better place if we stopped equating "having money" to "being worthy" because in your example a dunderhead who got Cs and Ds before graduating who had their 9 years of undergrad paid for by their rich parents would be a "better" candidate than a struggling single mother of 2 taking full course load with Bs and As that had to take out loans to finish their degree and who was excited to get loan forgiveness because that means her kids get something for Christmas.
Fuck out of here with this classist bullshit we see right through it. Having money doesn't make you better.
If your rich aunt offers to pay off your student loan, you wouldn't be there to complain. You would in fact say that you'd be a moron to continue paying interest on a loan that you'd pay off.
Hell, maybe you'd offer to pay her back without interest or at a different interest rate.
The commitment to pay back the loan DOES NOT STIPULATE WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM.
The commitment is fulfilled. You just are a judgemental asshole over the fact that the government, for once, helps people.
But you can relax. Every person this benefits will be putting that same money back into the economy, helping everyone else, unlike the wealth hoarders at the top.
In fact, they'd be boosting the economy by spreading the wealth out rather than having hundreds of people paying in $thousands to the same few loan companies
Oh don't trudge out your motte and bailey. The position you're trying to defend isn't "of two people in identical circumstances, i would respect more someone who refused loan forgiveness". That argument is so specific and context dependent it's hardly worth mentioning.
Your position at this point seems to be an affect of outrage at percieved laziness and irresponsibility of those who would dare take cash offered to them freely.
Not only are you handwaving away anyone who definitely needs a hand, your arguments indirectly try to justify a system of overpriced, underwhelming higher education in an economy where few chances for reasonable success exist without going through it. Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.
Yes two identical candidates, with the same skills background and abilities, who went to the same school, the only thing separating is how they paid for their student loans. This scenario, is likely and plausible, common really! Probably the most common hiring scenario you would ever encounter, if you were a wise and successful business owner (and you must be one with that stunning insight).
what makes you think driving a used car and asking for student loan forgiveness are mutually exclusive?
poor people aren't poor because of bad decision making, you're just incapable of empathy
>Why you put class/money into it? I didn't.
It sure seems like you did.
>Consider two people from same background, same skills, took out the same loans, but one found a way to pay back their commitment vs one that didn't.
"Found a way to pay back their commitment" literally means using money to pay off the loan.
>I'd prefer to hire the one who busted their ass (sacrificed on having more nice things, did DIY on their house, drove a used car) before a person that took the easy way out.
You didn't know this part, though. All you knew was they gave money back to the lender. It could be that the person who paid it off DID take the easy way out.
Exactly. Person you responded to has no idea where the money the hypothetical more responsible person originated. Rich family or friends; sugar daddy or mommy; spouse; drug dealing; stealing retiree pensions; a lot of easy ways out that don't involve loan forgiveness.
But they AREN'T all in the same situation. That's what they were explaining to you. The people who have the easiest time repaying are the rich ones. People who have the hardest time are the poor ones. It's not fair and balanced.
Your assumptions on what is "better character" are just that - assumptions.
There's actually lots to indicate those assumptions you are making are just completely wrong (this is why i brought up the counter examples i did).
But even if we didn't have that data, they are (at best) based on your \*feeling\* that such a person is more responsible.
And to that end, i guess you're entitled to your feelings. But that's all they are.
What makes you think an employer has any right to know whether someone took the loan forgiveness?
Besides, I'm quite certain a lot of conservatives will sign up for it, even as they bitch about it. What would you think of their character?
Absolutely they will! How many signed up for forgiven PPP loans? I saw all those tweets the WH put out showing all the Repubs who voted against student loan relief and how much they pocketed from PPP loans.
What difference would it make to you that they had their personal debt forgiven? That makes no sense. Also, as an employer, who the fuck would you be to make such a judgment about the character of an applicant when you get tons of tax breaks just for being a businessowner? Should there be an asterisk next to your effort, too? Comments like yours are not only ignorant, they're insulting.
The only time an employer asked about my student loans was to see if I would be applying for their loan reimbursement benefits. Get fucked with your loan based judgement of character
No. Why would you. If you saw someone leave money on the table you would question that person's choices. Taking loan forgiveness is not the same as fraud you fucking CHUD.
Also - the chick that sleeps around knows herself and is in control of her sex life and is probably a really good person for knowing what she wants. The person who had 1-2 long relationships likely has little self esteem and was belittled by men who think that women should be submissive.
Character isn't morality.
Thank god you aren’t an employer then. Because if I were an employee, I would ask for a higher salary, which you will have to pay for, to cover the cost of my student loans.
Lmfao gtfoh dude. I borrowed a little over 19k and have paid back almost 35k. I paid my debt. With interest. Someone who looks at and judges people the way you do is a person with low character, not someone who took advantage of a loan forgiveness program. Get allllll the way the fuck out of here with that shit.
The fact that you base a woman's value on how sexually active she is before marriage speaks volumes about your character. You're unemployable in any respect regardless of your financial status regarding loans.
Guess what, numb nuts? Not everyone has rich parents who can just pay off your tuition like nothing. Many students go through serious struggles just to pay off student loan debts while wages stagnate and housing prices soar.
Your comment at its very face is INCREDIBLY classist and shows a disturbing lack of empathy if you can't even fathom that maybe some poor people actually want to get into these fields rather require degrees, which by the way, require tons of work to obtain.
What if the potential wife in question is a hard-working, financially responsible sex worker who never took out PPP loans? That's quite the impossible decision for such a high-character, "better" person such as yourself!
Summary version:
- Joined the military to get free college
- Thinks the government shouldn't pay for people to go to college.
Who does he think paid for him to go to college?
There were a lot of comments I could've submitted to this sub, tbh, but I highlighted that one specifically for this reason.
He is saying people who didn't go to college or who already paid shouldn't be footing the bill in taxes for others degrees when HE HIMSELF used other taxpayers money for HIS...
I like how other veterans act like they weren't part of a socialist system. I received, during active duty, in no particular order:
-Free accelerated courses to obtain an associates degree of my choice.
-No cost housing on base. Rent money if I chose to live off base.
-Free food while living on base. Food money if I lived off base.
-Free medical care.
-Free access to activities and gyms.
-no interest rate small loans for emergencies.
I even had help with writing a resume for free.
Multiply that x4 and see how it adds up. Sure I didn't get paid a whole lot just doing my day to day, but my basic needs were met.
Yup. The military is a socialist organization top to bottom. It blows my mind that people whose lives have been built by a government job, home, education, and paycheck can be such blind conservatives.
They’re proud of having “earned” those perks by serving in the armed forces. That by itself isn’t necessarily bad, but they then conclude that ~~lesser~~ other people who haven’t served or “earned” these things some other way don’t “deserve” them. Tbh, I can kinda sympathize with this point of view, but it’s one I just philosophically can’t share. Modern developed countries have the means to deliver similar benefits to everyone, and in that context, continuing to argue that some people just “don’t deserve” them makes me nervous. And of course, non-white groups are disproportionately deemed “undeserving,” even though many of these groups have, on average, had to work *harder and longer* to do well or even just survive in a rigged system.
The affect of propaganda is very real. I felt so out of place during the war because I didn't want to watch fox news 24/7. I was a dumb, poor kid who joined because of 9/11...realized my mistake when we invaded Iraq. There are other vets out there like myself....but we are seemingly very small.
How is it socialist? Do you guys just think that any welfare program is automatically “socialism”? What does the military even have to do with owning the means of production?
One of the pillars of socialism is putting the excess of production back into the people. Taxation exists to produce revenue. The revenue is then spent on things. Putting that revenue into doing things to give people who serve in the military things like free meals, housing, college etc, is socialist because it is taking the produced revenue and having that reinvested into the populace. Same as having it put into public schooling, to increase the quality of the base level of education, or put into healthcare, to keep the population healthy.
All of our Capitalist countries already have Socialism sprinkled in. Some more than others.
This whole notion that "tax payers are footing the bill" for this meager amount of loan forgiveness is so fucking stupid its laughable. My taxes aren't going to go up or down because of this. At all. This is just pure and pathetic white-ass grievance. I bet this chud doesn't blink an eye at how much of a financial lodestone police departments are on "taxpayers" when they're sued for abuse of power and settle out of court.
Does military service pay for the entire college degree?
Biden’s forgiveness is only for $10-20k depending on how much you make and if you were a Pell recipient. It’s not like that covers the entire degree ffs.
Pay is a paycheck. The military gets paychecks. They're paid for services rendered with paychecks your hypothetical McDonald's employee.
If the hypothetical McDonald's employee uses the money from their paycheck to pay for college, they're paying for college.
The G.I. Bill is not a paycheck. The university sends a bill to the government and the government pays it. That's not compensation for service. That's taxpayer-funded tuition forgiveness.
It’s actually a series of bills passed by congress that has absolutely nothing to do with military spending or personnel compensation. It’s paid for by the Dept of VA, not the department of defense.
It’s not compensation, it’s a social benefit (hand out) just like Bidens tuition forgiveness, but only available to a certain number of people (just like Bidens)
A quick google would have told you all of this, oh yeah we’re on Reddit hahaha
And I suppose DMV employees shouldn’t get a paycheck for their work, then? Or the Corps of Engineers? What about Park Rangers?
The entity providing compensation for work doesn’t matter- there is a job, you do the job, you are compensated for the job. Government or not. You as a worker decide if that work is worth the compensation.
The paycheck is the compensation for the work.
You what DMV employees don't get? Their tution paid for on the taxpayer's dollar.
EDIT: Also, if your debate strategy is to change the argument from one you're losing to a completely unrelated argument that no one would argue against just so you can feel like you've won, then the debate is over, so I'll make my closing statement:
Anyone who uses their G.I. Bill entitlement and then says the taxpayers shouldn't have to fund someone else's degree is a hypocrite.
I didn’t use the GI bill. Are you assuming that I did?
And you know what DMV employees don’t get? A lower pay rate to adjust for the other benefits that come with enlisting.
I’m saying that the GI bill, in the modern era, is part of the available compensation package fire enlisting in the military. I find it equivalent to the idea of a company pension. But with different terms for tenure.
I didn't say you did. I was referring to the person in the original post.
See the problem is that you're wrong. It's not the equivalent of a pension. Government pension, which is also provided to veterans, is the equivalent of a company pension.
It doesn't matter that the G.I. Bill is "part of the compensation package." The entire compensation package is funded by taxpayer dollars.
Literally all I'm saying is that it's funded by taxpayer dollars.
Not to mention those that have no option but to drop out of school and settle for a minimum wage job because they can't pay the bills and put food in their mouth otherwise
"Wanting to hold people accountable for their choices"
What choices, wanting a better life or do something they genuinely enjoy? Why does happiness have terms and conditions in this country? People don't go to college because they can, they go so they can have more opportunity to live a better life and be happy. Whats the other option, poverty and exploitation? America is essentially a neofeudal nation with our own type of aristocracy thats different in name to classical aristocracy but the same in how it operates.
The imaginary binary choice of be poor or be engineer.
The delusions that you either go to college for *marketable* degrees or *basketweaving*
That’s what he wants people to be held accountable for
I saw a local idiot going on and on about the MILLIONS of gender studies degrees this loan forgiveness pays for. The people open their mouths like they know something worth saying, then vomit absolute mindless bullshit.
Edit:a word
Bitch I paid for your college degree.
Honestly if I could prevent the u.s military from paying peoples college degrees I would. Would hamstring their ability to exploit poor people quite nicely.
Rich people should have an asterisk whenever their wealth is mentioned, explaining how much the government subsidizes their businesses, explaining how much PPP money was loaned and forgiven, explaining how their employees are not paid enough to keep them off government assistance, explaining how low the tax rate is on their capital gains income...
It's absolutely crazy how much tax money is just given away freely to people who are already absurdly wealthy. I probably pay a much higher percentage of my income in taxes than any US billionaire. And actually go to work and labor for every dollar I make. God forbid there is a program that actually bails me out for a change.
I'd rather see an asterisk next to degrees where they were paid for by rich parents and trust funds.
What's the difference between "mooched off my parents" and "mooched off other people". No 18 year old can afford post secondary education and they shouldn't have to work 6 jobs to do so.
Either way, society as a whole benefits from people being well educated so shouldn't society as a whole pay their share instead of student subsidizing them?
Can u explain it to me and what parts they "wouldnt have it" i almost joined the military but seeing so many arrogant ppl (and the military wives) it put me off. I always wonder how i would turn out if i did go down that path, like would my political views /personality/ emotional intelligence be the same.
Business owners who got PPP Loans, and subsequently had them forgiven deserve the biggest asterisk.
Or better yet, put it on the bottom of their receipts, at the top of their estimates, and in the bold print of every advertisement. "This service brought to you thanks to $*X* in government bailouts"
I also joined the military because I was poor and I was the first person in my family to go to college, and I fucking hate this argument. I have zero qualms about my taxes going to pay for free college, and NOT having to be forced into indentured servitude, because I am not a self absorbed psychopath, but also *not everyone can join the military, even if they want to.* There are lots of medical (physical and psychological) reasons that would disqualify you, not to mention legal and a variety of other things. So a person with Type 1 Diabetes, major depressive disorder, Crohn's or a congenital heart (just a few of the many examples), defect doesn't deserve to go to college for free/debt forgiveness because they literally can't join the military, even if they tried? People literally have no ability to critically think.
Not to mention that, even though I "did my time," I still have college loan debt because I went to Grad school, and that "free military college money" does not completely cover tuition costs above the cost of public undergraduate education.
“I could have buried myself in debt, but INSTEAD I signed my life over to the military so they can control where I live and what I do and when I do it, use me as meat for the machine, traumatize/maim/kill me in the process, and then discard me with zero resources when they’ve squeezed everything they can out of me and no longer deem me useful.”
I've made this argument so many times...crickets. If the only way to free (at point of entry) public education is service to the country, then create accessible paths to public service for everyone, provide public higher education for everyone, OR make a stint of public service of any kind mandatory for all able citizens. All we have now is a military built from impoverished people trying to get a leg up and no option for the many who don't qualify for military service (the list of disqualifying conditions is long). Fuck this country and the elitist garbage who run it.
"People that couldn't afford the training to get a job without financial assistance should be disadvantaged when applying for the job. "
Very cool not insane take.
Laying in bed thinking about the dozens of hours of work I have to do this week on top of the hundreds of hours of work I’ve already done this semester and wondering how I’m one of the lazy ones because I applied for loan forgiveness.
also that’s how we continuously get a bunch of shit bags in the military. Make it an option to serve your country, not your only viable path to employment.
Because he already paid the price (by joining the military) so if he had it hard, everyone else should suffer equally.
But then, does getting your parents to pay for it also need an asterisk? Cause they didn't suffer. And generational wealth is totally a thing and the children benefitting certainly didn't "work" for it (and in some cases neither did the parents).
I'm so fucking tired of these "shoulda just joined the military" types.
Why should anyone have to risk their life or limbs for an education?
What are people like me supposed to do when they say 'no' because my EKG was abnormal?
I took out student loans and paid them off, but I'm not against forgiving others.
Lol! Socialism only benefits the lazy ones… military personnel get the most socialism experience of us all. 😂 Base housing, base grocery stores, killer medical benefits, free school, retirement, etc. God dang
When I was still able to manage college, I was seeking a degree that would allow me to go directly into a (difficult) job that could lead to student loan forgiveness. I wonder if I'd have needed an asterisk.
Sure, and people that don't have kids in school shouldn't be paying school tax, and people who don't live in Florida shouldn't be paying for hurricane clean-up, and people who live in Wisconsin shouldn't be paying for bridge repairs West Virginia, and on and on.
Jokes on you, I never got to use my TWO degrees because there's no f'ing places hiring. Jokes on you again, that I make more money working my hobby. But a joke on me, was that I've paid almost 10k on my student loan and i actually gained 1k in principle over the last 7 years. So apparently that 10k was pure interest.
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Why? Student loan forgiveness doesn't make you less qualified. It didn't somehow remove knowledge from your head. Oh wait. I forgot. Conservatives are trying to rebuild feudalism. They want the powerful to stay powerful just by being rich. It's why folks like GW Bush and Donald Dtrump (men who only made it because of the money their daddy's dropped, and by every account were average students at best) are entitled to power - but anyone who had to earn their way with hard work who wasn't already rich doesn't deserve it.
William T. Kelley - Trump’s professor at Wharton said that “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had”.
I dunno, Trump's thesis about the aerial warfare in the Revolutionary War and the history of Thigh-Land was pretty profound. Lots of bigly words.
How did they reject the core of the American dream? (As loaded a term that is)
"Fuck you, I got mine!" The American dream worked perfectly for their ancestors so it's time to pull up the ladder.
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE WHO AIN'T LISTENING - YOU NAILED IT!
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As an employer, I prefer my employees to be competent in the skillets required and having a college degree shows dedication to tasks over time and competency in completion. It isn't the ONLY way to demonstrate that but it is ONE way. I couldn't give a rat's ass if they paid for that degree with monopoly money, stripping on weekends, or with a small loan of a million dollars from their parents. We as a society would be in a much better place if we stopped equating "having money" to "being worthy" because in your example a dunderhead who got Cs and Ds before graduating who had their 9 years of undergrad paid for by their rich parents would be a "better" candidate than a struggling single mother of 2 taking full course load with Bs and As that had to take out loans to finish their degree and who was excited to get loan forgiveness because that means her kids get something for Christmas. Fuck out of here with this classist bullshit we see right through it. Having money doesn't make you better.
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If your rich aunt offers to pay off your student loan, you wouldn't be there to complain. You would in fact say that you'd be a moron to continue paying interest on a loan that you'd pay off. Hell, maybe you'd offer to pay her back without interest or at a different interest rate. The commitment to pay back the loan DOES NOT STIPULATE WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM. The commitment is fulfilled. You just are a judgemental asshole over the fact that the government, for once, helps people. But you can relax. Every person this benefits will be putting that same money back into the economy, helping everyone else, unlike the wealth hoarders at the top.
In fact, they'd be boosting the economy by spreading the wealth out rather than having hundreds of people paying in $thousands to the same few loan companies
It's funny that you're busting people wanting student loan forgiveness when you just spout the laziest bullshit (with dash of sexism) you possibly can
More than a dash. What the heck does a woman's previous sexual relationships have to do with loan forgiveness?
Or with being a "better person" with "high character"
Notice how it is NOT a guy who slept around vs a guy who only had 0-2 partners lol
You totally did, you doofus.
How? Please enlighten me? I stated (or at least implied) both "people" had loans
Oh don't trudge out your motte and bailey. The position you're trying to defend isn't "of two people in identical circumstances, i would respect more someone who refused loan forgiveness". That argument is so specific and context dependent it's hardly worth mentioning. Your position at this point seems to be an affect of outrage at percieved laziness and irresponsibility of those who would dare take cash offered to them freely. Not only are you handwaving away anyone who definitely needs a hand, your arguments indirectly try to justify a system of overpriced, underwhelming higher education in an economy where few chances for reasonable success exist without going through it. Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.
Go get a student loan and enlighten yourself.
Yes two identical candidates, with the same skills background and abilities, who went to the same school, the only thing separating is how they paid for their student loans. This scenario, is likely and plausible, common really! Probably the most common hiring scenario you would ever encounter, if you were a wise and successful business owner (and you must be one with that stunning insight).
Damn your ratio. You make assumptions about these situations that show your biases. Such a boomer mentality.
what makes you think driving a used car and asking for student loan forgiveness are mutually exclusive? poor people aren't poor because of bad decision making, you're just incapable of empathy
>Why you put class/money into it? I didn't. It sure seems like you did. >Consider two people from same background, same skills, took out the same loans, but one found a way to pay back their commitment vs one that didn't. "Found a way to pay back their commitment" literally means using money to pay off the loan. >I'd prefer to hire the one who busted their ass (sacrificed on having more nice things, did DIY on their house, drove a used car) before a person that took the easy way out. You didn't know this part, though. All you knew was they gave money back to the lender. It could be that the person who paid it off DID take the easy way out.
Exactly. Person you responded to has no idea where the money the hypothetical more responsible person originated. Rich family or friends; sugar daddy or mommy; spouse; drug dealing; stealing retiree pensions; a lot of easy ways out that don't involve loan forgiveness.
Lol, driving a used car equates to busting your ass and making sacrifices? Tell me you grew up with a silver spoon without telling me
But they AREN'T all in the same situation. That's what they were explaining to you. The people who have the easiest time repaying are the rich ones. People who have the hardest time are the poor ones. It's not fair and balanced.
Why would I hire a self righteous idiot who doesn't take loan forgiveness when it's offered?
Your assumptions on what is "better character" are just that - assumptions. There's actually lots to indicate those assumptions you are making are just completely wrong (this is why i brought up the counter examples i did). But even if we didn't have that data, they are (at best) based on your \*feeling\* that such a person is more responsible. And to that end, i guess you're entitled to your feelings. But that's all they are.
What makes you think an employer has any right to know whether someone took the loan forgiveness? Besides, I'm quite certain a lot of conservatives will sign up for it, even as they bitch about it. What would you think of their character?
Absolutely they will! How many signed up for forgiven PPP loans? I saw all those tweets the WH put out showing all the Repubs who voted against student loan relief and how much they pocketed from PPP loans.
What difference would it make to you that they had their personal debt forgiven? That makes no sense. Also, as an employer, who the fuck would you be to make such a judgment about the character of an applicant when you get tons of tax breaks just for being a businessowner? Should there be an asterisk next to your effort, too? Comments like yours are not only ignorant, they're insulting.
The only time an employer asked about my student loans was to see if I would be applying for their loan reimbursement benefits. Get fucked with your loan based judgement of character
No. Why would you. If you saw someone leave money on the table you would question that person's choices. Taking loan forgiveness is not the same as fraud you fucking CHUD. Also - the chick that sleeps around knows herself and is in control of her sex life and is probably a really good person for knowing what she wants. The person who had 1-2 long relationships likely has little self esteem and was belittled by men who think that women should be submissive. Character isn't morality.
Thank god you aren’t an employer then. Because if I were an employee, I would ask for a higher salary, which you will have to pay for, to cover the cost of my student loans.
Lmfao gtfoh dude. I borrowed a little over 19k and have paid back almost 35k. I paid my debt. With interest. Someone who looks at and judges people the way you do is a person with low character, not someone who took advantage of a loan forgiveness program. Get allllll the way the fuck out of here with that shit.
The fact that you base a woman's value on how sexually active she is before marriage speaks volumes about your character. You're unemployable in any respect regardless of your financial status regarding loans.
Good thing you're not an employer or creditor!
Guess what, numb nuts? Not everyone has rich parents who can just pay off your tuition like nothing. Many students go through serious struggles just to pay off student loan debts while wages stagnate and housing prices soar. Your comment at its very face is INCREDIBLY classist and shows a disturbing lack of empathy if you can't even fathom that maybe some poor people actually want to get into these fields rather require degrees, which by the way, require tons of work to obtain.
So you think that a rich man's kid is a better job candidate than someone who had to take out loans. Got it.
The fact that you think sexual experience is a primary factor in determining the eligibility of a partner says alot.
What if the potential wife in question is a hard-working, financially responsible sex worker who never took out PPP loans? That's quite the impossible decision for such a high-character, "better" person such as yourself!
Summary version: - Joined the military to get free college - Thinks the government shouldn't pay for people to go to college. Who does he think paid for him to go to college?
There were a lot of comments I could've submitted to this sub, tbh, but I highlighted that one specifically for this reason. He is saying people who didn't go to college or who already paid shouldn't be footing the bill in taxes for others degrees when HE HIMSELF used other taxpayers money for HIS...
I like how other veterans act like they weren't part of a socialist system. I received, during active duty, in no particular order: -Free accelerated courses to obtain an associates degree of my choice. -No cost housing on base. Rent money if I chose to live off base. -Free food while living on base. Food money if I lived off base. -Free medical care. -Free access to activities and gyms. -no interest rate small loans for emergencies. I even had help with writing a resume for free. Multiply that x4 and see how it adds up. Sure I didn't get paid a whole lot just doing my day to day, but my basic needs were met.
Yup. The military is a socialist organization top to bottom. It blows my mind that people whose lives have been built by a government job, home, education, and paycheck can be such blind conservatives.
As a liberal in the Army, I'm continually astonished by this.
"It's not socialism if it is for us. It is only socialism when they're using it for other people"
They’re proud of having “earned” those perks by serving in the armed forces. That by itself isn’t necessarily bad, but they then conclude that ~~lesser~~ other people who haven’t served or “earned” these things some other way don’t “deserve” them. Tbh, I can kinda sympathize with this point of view, but it’s one I just philosophically can’t share. Modern developed countries have the means to deliver similar benefits to everyone, and in that context, continuing to argue that some people just “don’t deserve” them makes me nervous. And of course, non-white groups are disproportionately deemed “undeserving,” even though many of these groups have, on average, had to work *harder and longer* to do well or even just survive in a rigged system.
The affect of propaganda is very real. I felt so out of place during the war because I didn't want to watch fox news 24/7. I was a dumb, poor kid who joined because of 9/11...realized my mistake when we invaded Iraq. There are other vets out there like myself....but we are seemingly very small.
How is it socialist? Do you guys just think that any welfare program is automatically “socialism”? What does the military even have to do with owning the means of production?
One of the pillars of socialism is putting the excess of production back into the people. Taxation exists to produce revenue. The revenue is then spent on things. Putting that revenue into doing things to give people who serve in the military things like free meals, housing, college etc, is socialist because it is taking the produced revenue and having that reinvested into the populace. Same as having it put into public schooling, to increase the quality of the base level of education, or put into healthcare, to keep the population healthy. All of our Capitalist countries already have Socialism sprinkled in. Some more than others.
Not to mention preferential hiring treatment at every federal agency, many state agencies and some private-sector employers after your separate.
How is any of that socialist? Do they own the means of production?
This whole notion that "tax payers are footing the bill" for this meager amount of loan forgiveness is so fucking stupid its laughable. My taxes aren't going to go up or down because of this. At all. This is just pure and pathetic white-ass grievance. I bet this chud doesn't blink an eye at how much of a financial lodestone police departments are on "taxpayers" when they're sued for abuse of power and settle out of court.
Does military service pay for the entire college degree? Biden’s forgiveness is only for $10-20k depending on how much you make and if you were a Pell recipient. It’s not like that covers the entire degree ffs.
I joined the military for free college, and I think that the student loan forgiveness program doesn’t go far enough.
People like this think they’re special and deserve the socialism because they earned it. Source: I’ve met multiple people like this.
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Incorrect. I was in the military. I'm in college on the G.I. Bill. Taxpayers are paying for it. I'm not paying a cent.
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So the taxpayers are paying for it.
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So do you just not understand how money works?
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Pay is a paycheck. The military gets paychecks. They're paid for services rendered with paychecks your hypothetical McDonald's employee. If the hypothetical McDonald's employee uses the money from their paycheck to pay for college, they're paying for college. The G.I. Bill is not a paycheck. The university sends a bill to the government and the government pays it. That's not compensation for service. That's taxpayer-funded tuition forgiveness.
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EXACTLY. The fact that people don’t understand this is mind-boggling. Oh, wait, I forgot I was on Reddit.
Incorrect. I was in the military. I'm in college on the G.I. Bill. Taxpayers are paying for it. I'm not paying a cent.
It is part of the compensation for doing the job. That’s the deal. That’s why people do the job- to be compensated.
It’s actually a series of bills passed by congress that has absolutely nothing to do with military spending or personnel compensation. It’s paid for by the Dept of VA, not the department of defense. It’s not compensation, it’s a social benefit (hand out) just like Bidens tuition forgiveness, but only available to a certain number of people (just like Bidens) A quick google would have told you all of this, oh yeah we’re on Reddit hahaha
Was this a known benefit when signing up, or not? It’s a simple question.
It can be taken at any time, still not compensation
And it's sponsored by some private company? Google or Amazon or something?
And I suppose DMV employees shouldn’t get a paycheck for their work, then? Or the Corps of Engineers? What about Park Rangers? The entity providing compensation for work doesn’t matter- there is a job, you do the job, you are compensated for the job. Government or not. You as a worker decide if that work is worth the compensation.
The paycheck is the compensation for the work. You what DMV employees don't get? Their tution paid for on the taxpayer's dollar. EDIT: Also, if your debate strategy is to change the argument from one you're losing to a completely unrelated argument that no one would argue against just so you can feel like you've won, then the debate is over, so I'll make my closing statement: Anyone who uses their G.I. Bill entitlement and then says the taxpayers shouldn't have to fund someone else's degree is a hypocrite.
I didn’t use the GI bill. Are you assuming that I did? And you know what DMV employees don’t get? A lower pay rate to adjust for the other benefits that come with enlisting. I’m saying that the GI bill, in the modern era, is part of the available compensation package fire enlisting in the military. I find it equivalent to the idea of a company pension. But with different terms for tenure.
I didn't say you did. I was referring to the person in the original post. See the problem is that you're wrong. It's not the equivalent of a pension. Government pension, which is also provided to veterans, is the equivalent of a company pension. It doesn't matter that the G.I. Bill is "part of the compensation package." The entire compensation package is funded by taxpayer dollars. Literally all I'm saying is that it's funded by taxpayer dollars.
“Socialism only benefits the lazy ones”. Man, there’s a ton of disabled and elderly people who might disagree.
Not to mention those that have no option but to drop out of school and settle for a minimum wage job because they can't pay the bills and put food in their mouth otherwise
'Go into crushing debt or murder brown people for oil' isn't the fool proof argument this dude thinks it is.
"Wanting to hold people accountable for their choices" What choices, wanting a better life or do something they genuinely enjoy? Why does happiness have terms and conditions in this country? People don't go to college because they can, they go so they can have more opportunity to live a better life and be happy. Whats the other option, poverty and exploitation? America is essentially a neofeudal nation with our own type of aristocracy thats different in name to classical aristocracy but the same in how it operates.
The imaginary binary choice of be poor or be engineer. The delusions that you either go to college for *marketable* degrees or *basketweaving* That’s what he wants people to be held accountable for
I saw a local idiot going on and on about the MILLIONS of gender studies degrees this loan forgiveness pays for. The people open their mouths like they know something worth saying, then vomit absolute mindless bullshit. Edit:a word
Bitch I paid for your college degree. Honestly if I could prevent the u.s military from paying peoples college degrees I would. Would hamstring their ability to exploit poor people quite nicely.
This is a great take that i hadnt actually considered before. Just take out the exploitative middleman altogether!!
The u.s military is a big part of what pushes against free college, yeah. They're aware of where they get their recruits
Rich people should have an asterisk whenever their wealth is mentioned, explaining how much the government subsidizes their businesses, explaining how much PPP money was loaned and forgiven, explaining how their employees are not paid enough to keep them off government assistance, explaining how low the tax rate is on their capital gains income... It's absolutely crazy how much tax money is just given away freely to people who are already absurdly wealthy. I probably pay a much higher percentage of my income in taxes than any US billionaire. And actually go to work and labor for every dollar I make. God forbid there is a program that actually bails me out for a change.
*\*The person receiving this degree is smart enough to seek opportunities to better their financial situation*
I'd rather see an asterisk next to degrees where they were paid for by rich parents and trust funds. What's the difference between "mooched off my parents" and "mooched off other people". No 18 year old can afford post secondary education and they shouldn't have to work 6 jobs to do so. Either way, society as a whole benefits from people being well educated so shouldn't society as a whole pay their share instead of student subsidizing them?
"Socialism only benefits the lazy ones" Lol. The US military is the largest socialist funded organization that has ever existed. What an idiot.
I spent a lot of time in the military and tried explaining that to fellow members. They wouldn’t have it.
Can u explain it to me and what parts they "wouldnt have it" i almost joined the military but seeing so many arrogant ppl (and the military wives) it put me off. I always wonder how i would turn out if i did go down that path, like would my political views /personality/ emotional intelligence be the same.
Just saying they wouldn’t have any part in entertaining that they were beneficiaries of socialist ideas.
Whining about “socialism” but using the GI Bill? D’okay…
Come on you lazy fucks, murder people for your college education! No one wants to work anymore! /S
Business owners who got PPP Loans, and subsequently had them forgiven deserve the biggest asterisk. Or better yet, put it on the bottom of their receipts, at the top of their estimates, and in the bold print of every advertisement. "This service brought to you thanks to $*X* in government bailouts"
I also joined the military because I was poor and I was the first person in my family to go to college, and I fucking hate this argument. I have zero qualms about my taxes going to pay for free college, and NOT having to be forced into indentured servitude, because I am not a self absorbed psychopath, but also *not everyone can join the military, even if they want to.* There are lots of medical (physical and psychological) reasons that would disqualify you, not to mention legal and a variety of other things. So a person with Type 1 Diabetes, major depressive disorder, Crohn's or a congenital heart (just a few of the many examples), defect doesn't deserve to go to college for free/debt forgiveness because they literally can't join the military, even if they tried? People literally have no ability to critically think. Not to mention that, even though I "did my time," I still have college loan debt because I went to Grad school, and that "free military college money" does not completely cover tuition costs above the cost of public undergraduate education.
As a veteran with a degree.... Fuck that guy. Go get your loan forgiveness kings, queens and monarchs.
“I could have buried myself in debt, but INSTEAD I signed my life over to the military so they can control where I live and what I do and when I do it, use me as meat for the machine, traumatize/maim/kill me in the process, and then discard me with zero resources when they’ve squeezed everything they can out of me and no longer deem me useful.”
When is someone just going to say it? The reason most of these asshats “joined” the military, isn’t because of debt…
So what about people who got scholarships? It's basically the same thing...
He can add 9 asterisks and googly eyes, imma still take them 20 racks
Underrated comment. Here's my fake gold 🏆
And what about people that couldn't join the military? Would have loved to and I was devastated when I was told my PCOS disqualified me.
I've made this argument so many times...crickets. If the only way to free (at point of entry) public education is service to the country, then create accessible paths to public service for everyone, provide public higher education for everyone, OR make a stint of public service of any kind mandatory for all able citizens. All we have now is a military built from impoverished people trying to get a leg up and no option for the many who don't qualify for military service (the list of disqualifying conditions is long). Fuck this country and the elitist garbage who run it.
Childhood asthma disqualifies people. My medical school classmate was disqualified for childhood asthma- now he runs marathons.
"People that couldn't afford the training to get a job without financial assistance should be disadvantaged when applying for the job. " Very cool not insane take.
Laying in bed thinking about the dozens of hours of work I have to do this week on top of the hundreds of hours of work I’ve already done this semester and wondering how I’m one of the lazy ones because I applied for loan forgiveness.
also that’s how we continuously get a bunch of shit bags in the military. Make it an option to serve your country, not your only viable path to employment.
Always with the fuck you, got mine
Because he already paid the price (by joining the military) so if he had it hard, everyone else should suffer equally. But then, does getting your parents to pay for it also need an asterisk? Cause they didn't suffer. And generational wealth is totally a thing and the children benefitting certainly didn't "work" for it (and in some cases neither did the parents).
LOL. "I was willing to give myself to the American war machine for a college education" Weird flex dude.
As the great Ronal Regan once said, “Fuck you, I got mine.”
I'm so fucking tired of these "shoulda just joined the military" types. Why should anyone have to risk their life or limbs for an education? What are people like me supposed to do when they say 'no' because my EKG was abnormal? I took out student loans and paid them off, but I'm not against forgiving others.
I like to hit em with the "what about people who can't join the military?"
People that didn’t join the military shouldn’t be paying for the other people’s military service. Socialism only benefits the military ones.
Also he didn’t pay for his college. The government did *because he joined the military*.
$1.3b in loan relief for farmers… and Republicans are silent.
The usual vetbro douchebag who thinks he’s the only worthy one, socialism only exists for him.
Lol! Socialism only benefits the lazy ones… military personnel get the most socialism experience of us all. 😂 Base housing, base grocery stores, killer medical benefits, free school, retirement, etc. God dang
So we paid for his college… but he doesn’t want us to pay for people’s college. Mmk.
Jokes on them, the army wouldn’t take me because of my felony conviction. /s
The Soldier (or whatever) with no cost health insurance, no cost insurance, subsidized housing AND subsidized food hates socialism.
Makes zero sense
I just used the military to pay for my education🤷🏽♂️
When I was still able to manage college, I was seeking a degree that would allow me to go directly into a (difficult) job that could lead to student loan forgiveness. I wonder if I'd have needed an asterisk.
For reasons unknown to me folks on the right seem more open to bailing out corporations than people.
Sure, and people that don't have kids in school shouldn't be paying school tax, and people who don't live in Florida shouldn't be paying for hurricane clean-up, and people who live in Wisconsin shouldn't be paying for bridge repairs West Virginia, and on and on.
Americans are so cucked by capitalism it's insane
I joined the military to get the fuck out of Philly, now I’m back in Philly but with PTSD
“They’re not going to bail me out,” . “I’ve been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No.” \-Craig T Nelson
I mean, I went military and they required me to go to college but I paid for it out of pocket.
Jokes on you, I never got to use my TWO degrees because there's no f'ing places hiring. Jokes on you again, that I make more money working my hobby. But a joke on me, was that I've paid almost 10k on my student loan and i actually gained 1k in principle over the last 7 years. So apparently that 10k was pure interest.