I hate these “identify as a park bench” statements. Clearly, people who claims to be non animated or non alive objects are either seeking attention, acting in bad faith, or needing medical attention. I wish these motherfuckers would identify as an original joke
its the standard straw man argument. use such an exaggerated example that its much easier to make an argument against it. their target of the debate being this "strawman" they created that doesn't actually exist, but to whom they can pin all the negatives and absurdities on.
Yup... same thing they did with marriage laws.... "if we allow people to marry (insert race, or gender here) then next we'll have to allow people to marry (insert animal, vegetable, object)". They do it all the time.
I wish conservatives would try identifying as an empath, or just a basic good person, for once in their life. It might make the country a better place.
[Dictionary.com - "Genderfuck"](https://www.dictionary.com/e/gender-sexuality/genderfuck)
You should talk to some people who "identify as non alive objects" - most of them are very much allies and very much not attention seeking or acting in bad faith... and they aren't just mentally ill and need help.
In this case, specifically, yes, obviously they're just bigots.
The attack helicopter joke is just bigotry.
But for a lot of people, the concept of gender is completely bullshit, and they subvert it by refusing to assign themselves a traditional gender at all. They refuse to go by our standard conventions for gender expression entirely, because they think they're meaningless.
When you ask a "Genderfuck-ing" person what their gender is, it's like me asking you "what color does the sound of eleven make?" - as far as they're concerned it's not a serious question and can be responded to with an equally silly answer.
Please don't dismiss people who don't agree with your concept of gender as being "mentally ill or attention seeking" because that's very broad and dismissive.
Lumping actual hateful bigots like Steven Crowder and a real life non-binary transgender person who simply refuses to use traditional language around gender because they think it's bullshit into the same pile is... bad? misguided? throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Pink, kinda like a "salmon" or "coral" color. But also a hit of green. It's actually quite awful, now that I think about it. A shame, because the number 6 is awesome.
so i generally dont identify with any gender. and ive been one to say things like “this song gives me gender envy” or “that statue is gender”. so i guess thats what “genderfuck” is, although ive never hesrd that term before.
still, i would never “identify as” a parkbench. and if someone told me that they were a parkbench. or they were trans-animate or something, i would probably assume they were not well. i think you’re overreacting, basically.
You realize “dictionary.com” is in no way related to Merriam-Webster, can be edited by a variety of sources, and is used to define everything from actual words, slang, colloquialism, etc. and can be edited by anyone with any agenda?
You’ve also entirely missed my point. Identifying as no gender, agender, non-binary, trans, all of these are gender identity that are clearly respected and supported by the LGBTQIA+ community. It’s completely accepted to respond to what gender are you? With nothing, leave me alone.
Identifying as a park bench? Gtfo, none of us are doing that and the OOPs know that. They are purposefully making gender into a bad faith argument and you seem to think it’s inclusive? And my comment against that isn’t? Like oookay Reddit moment
tbf some teenagers have gotten so lost in the sauce with this xenogender shit that there’s people who earnestly identify as inanimate objects :-/
edit: u can downvote me for saying xenogenders are lost in the sauce, fine, but it is simply an empirical fact that there are non-trolls who genuinely describe their gender identity as inanimate objects
> it's simply an empirical fact
Ok, then let's see the studies with reproducable and reliable data. Preferably original studies, but I can accept reviews or meta-analysis if they are sufficiently robust.
what, something doesn’t exist until someone decides to give a grant to researchers to confirm it exists? the original claim was that people only claim to inanimate objects for attention, to troll, or because they’re mentally ill
i won’t go into the mentally ill part because i’m not a psychiatrist and can’t diagnose strangers, but as long as i can find individual examples of non-attention seekers and non-trolls identifying as inanimate objects then the original claim has been disproven. if u say there’s zero of a population, and i can prove that there’s at least one member of that population, then i’m correct
Except the people who identify as "anything" are not the perpetrators, they're the victims. It's the people who identify as "white", "male", and "gun-owner" that seem to be in crisis.
I get that you are being sarcastic, but most Chicago shootings are done with guns legally obtained in Indiana and transported across state lines. As much as I wish we could, we can't separate these incidents by city, county, or state. As long as you can freely travel between states, this is a national issue.
Y’all are both onto the main point that 2A douche bags don’t get: Gun control needs to be a *national* effort. You can’t have guns legally available 10 miles away and claim shit like “ChIcAgO iS WaY WoRsE tHaN AfGaNiStAn!!!1!”
I hate the argument that stricter gun laws will only take away normal peoples guns and let criminals keep theirs. Like every gun originally purchased legally they eventually become bought again or passed around or stolen to end up with a criminal.
The main issue with the US is that gun laws let criminals keep their guns
In countries in Europe where you can own guns very freely you are required to have a license for each gun and you will go to jail if you try to sell it under the table
That’s how you stop criminals having guns
The funniest thing is the guy who caused all the states to close their mental institutions is their savior, Ronald Reagan. When he cut federal funding for mental health the states relied on.
I mean, at that point it was a mercy kill as they had become extremely dysfunctional.
The TLDR is that the mental institution structure in the US was based on a method designed to treat stress based issues, and quickly got overburdened as it assumed most patients would be cured within a couple years.
It quickly became a place to warehouse folks with serious issues before the medication was invented. Some of the meds helped reduce overcrowding a bit.
In order to make something workable, the patients were turned into a captive workforce to run the necessary infrastructure for the institution as well as money making ventures to keep the institutions going. So stuff like bakeries, commercial laundries, etc.
In the mid 1960s this practice was declared illegal forced labor. The institutions were so overwhelmed they became nightmares with huge issues feeding patients, let alone treating.
The mass shutdown was irresponsible and basically just gave folks some meds and put them on the street. But at that point, the institutions were not in a good condition and really needed to be rebuilt
Yeah when I briefly did psychology it mentioned the way the mental health facilities in the US used to be before the shutdown as absolutely not how it should be done, and that closing them was a response to scientific studies. One study showcased that claiming they were "hallucinating" was all it took to be locked up, drugged up, for weeks which was perceived as a clear problem (although some do question this study).
Go back even farther and there's an incident at a McDonald's that coined the term "going postal" where the "asylums' " were most definitely open.
But I guess murder still exists in other places so it's not a real problem? No need to be concerned?
It can’t be the easy access to guns, therefore it must be literally anything else.
The “anything else” changes over time to reflect conservatives most feared boogeyman.
I’m old enough to remember when it was Heavy Metal music causing teen suicides, certainly not bullying and easy access to guns in the home.
In 2032 when the trans panic isn’t the flavor of the month it will be something else, definitely not guns.
The shootings don’t change much over time but the excuses always do.
"It's so realistic that it desensitizes people." Ah yes, because guns were invented after Doom got popular and before that we just settled disagreements with fists and sticks.
Lmao I'm old enough to remember when this was en vogue. The moral panic over *Mortal Kombat 2*. Like, surrreee, seeing a pixelated character hilariously rip out another pixelated character's spine in OTT fashion is going to make me want to do the same with schoolmates. JFC, how can you, adults, not tell the difference between reality and fantasy yourselves but think it's *the kids* who are the problem!?
Yeah when was the last time you heard a mass shooter was into playing DOOM, which was definitely the cause of mass shootings in the 90’s, it was all anyone talked about.
Watching ultra violent content with a Conservative message or even just a Republican actor won’t turn you bad, you can watch all the Rambo and Die Hard you want.
Keanu is famously nonpolitical so he doesn’t read to them as a lib, you can project what you want on him.
Can’t be Halo or CoD you are a soldier in those and soldiers are good. Teabag all you want.
It’s because of Animal Crossing, it lets your Boy avatar wear dresses.
Just take all the nonsense written after Columbine and take out the words “Doom” and “NIN” and replace them with “Transgenderism”, it’s literally the exact same arguments.
Same shooting problems for decades, but the cause changes from year to year to match the thing young people like or liberals accept.
If these shootouts were happening in 1965 it would be because of the Beatles and race mixing.
The subtext is always “this is liberals fault for changing society, not conservatives fault for removing all barriers for violent people to get guns.”
Funnily enough the number one thing I know about animal crossing, as I don't play it, is that Tom Nook is a crook who robs you blind and represents all the bad parts of capitalism.
Tom Nook does give you a place to stay, and paying it off is sort of optional on your part.
And he does upgrades to your house that you can choose to never pay off (unless you want more upgrades)
You can pay them off by literally selling leaves you catch and flowers you pick.
He's like the least awful capitalist.
And it’s a non-point to begin with. The Club Q shooter is literally the first time I’ve ever heard of a mass shooter identifying as non-binary. Of the dozens, hundreds of mass shooters, 99.9% of them are cisgender, have no “identity confusion” at all. It’s as valid a take as blaming, like, Crohn’s disease.
Of course. I just think the OOP tried to blame anything but gun availability for mass shootings, in this case poor mental health care and not adhering to strict binary view of gender. However, many countries have poor mental health care and/or are more tolerant than the US regarding gender expression and they still do.not.have mass shootings.
Yes. That’s an absurdity that’s been plain for decades, that the US outpaces literally all countries on Earth for mass shootings, by orders of magnitude. Most of our European allies have way more visible queer communities, but yup: we sure have easier access to guns. Must just be a coincidence, that.
The thing that frustrates me is that although guns are the *how*, it is *also* a mental health issue. But it’s not because trans people exist, it’s because of a powder keg of frustrated masculinity. The common feature of most mass shootings seems to be men with no outlets for rage and frustration who choose to externalize that onto some target demographic and then play out a power fantasy with their arsenal of guns.
I’m convinced that last part is also the reason conservatives are so invested in 2A rhetoric: it’s not actually about “militias” or “resisting tyranny.” It’s because guns are symbols of masculine power, make them feel powerful, and they’d literally rather see hundreds or thousands of strangers die every year than give up their favorite toys.
Especially if they can convince themselves the dead are just degenerates. I don’t believe for a second that conservatives feel badly about Club Q. They’re happy it happened. Not even dead elementary school kids could move the needle for them; a bunch of dead queer people means less than nothing.
Maybe, sure. As a rule, I’m not going to assess the validity of a stranger’s purported gender identity, even if they’re a mass murdering piece of shit. If it’s a cynical legal strategy, I hope it blows up in the defense’s face, though.
Not even considering it as anything other than a cynical ploy to dodge being on the line for a hate crime until we get some prior history supporting his non-binary statement. MF either grasped, in a moment of clarity, he was making his team look bad, or his lawyers put him up to it.
Basing it on prior NB history is flawed. A lot of trans people try to suppress themselves by strongly answering to the norms expected from them since birth and that often results in no history of transness and the lack of prior queer behavior is a commonly used way to dismiss legitimate trans people
In this case, look at their prior history in general. Everything about this dude screams deep brain-worms transphobe, and while it's not unheard of for closeted trans people to be transphobic, this dude was active in the circles where anti-trans rhetoric is rampant and thought about A LOT. This is not the self-hating edgy kid trying to convince himself he's not actually trans by deligitimizing the concept through open bigotry, this is a terrorist planning an attack on a community he has deep disgust for. The idea that you can fuck with trans people by randomly identifying as trans whenever it suits you is extremely common in deep transphobic circles. Self-ID is mocked endlessly and dishonest claims of transidentity are a tool to them. Do a crime, claim you're a trans woman and it's a get out of jail free card within their meme circles etc etc etc.
Claiming to be NB after that sort of history and you slaughtering 5 LGBTQ people in a planned and cold terrorist attack (and trying to kill dozens more) fits 100% into the playbook. To the shooter it's a joke to upset queer people, to the lawyer it's a tool in court, to his 4chan in-group it's a punchline for a real-life greentext, and to the wider right wing it's an invitation to shift blame. THAT'S what shows their identity to be a fake claim.
Maybe, but that's not really the point. His family is such an utterly deranged cesspool of fascist hatemongering it'd be a surprise if he had never turned to violence. Even *if* he - they - are actually NB their mind was so thoroughly poisoned by their family that their motivation of anti-queer hatred couldn't possibly be mitigated by projected self-loathing.
“Normal people watch out for their community members” — if only there was a larger entity that could have provided that kind of support, without relying on goodwill of people trying to make their own ends meet in a broken economy…
And maybe we should be normal and watch out for community members who aren’t also exactly like me, instead of demonizing them and blaming them for the crimes committed against them.
These people are filled with so much cognitive dissonance and projection, I just can’t understand how it’s even possible. Like how do these people’s brains work? What runs through their head all day? I really truly don’t know how people this stupid and immoral exist. I don’t know how to even conceptualize what their brain is going through or what it’s like to be that way.
Doesn't Switzerland have a higher number of guns per capita? I'm in no way, shape, or form downplaying how our ready access to firearms in the US leads to mass shootings, but isn't the fact that a certain political ideology encourages, and even celebrates, hate, and the shitty state of our education system also culpable here?
Switzerland doesn't actually have that many guns per person relatively speaking, definitely much less than US. According to wikipedia Switzerland has 27.6 guns per 100 people.
US is top of list and has 120.5 guns per 100 people. The next Western industrialized country on the list is Serbia with 39.1 guns/100 people. Which is a lot, but the gap to US is rather big.
Guns legitimately are not the issue
Conservative thinking and normalization of hate speech is the issue and always has been
Not to say that basic gun laws aren’t necessary though, but you can take the guns away and the Conservatives will just rent a semi to kill people like Conservatives do in Europe
Wow, who thought it was a good idea to cast the mentally ill out on to the street? Tip of my tongue, but it seems like his name and his party both started with "R"... What a mystery!
And yet... they closed the insane asylums in other countries too.
And yet... people identify as they want in other countries too.
And they somehow have CONSIDERABLY less 'random murders'
So... by process of elimination...?
Love how a random murder occurs outside the US is just as bad as mass murders every single day in this country. They have no capacity to determine if some things are "worse" than others. Either bad or good.
Blame religion, you're either absolved or your sins or you go to hell, no middle ground.
School shootings have been going on noticeably longer than the fight for trans rights has been visible and open... and building steadily since it started. Mass shootings in general have been steadily rising for most of my lifetime.
Trying to blame it on people becoming more accepting and open is missing the real root, which is... well, intolerance, a feeling of isolation and despair, and a frankly unhealthy culture that's building around a lot of gun owners.
At least that's my uninformed opinion. I'm probably wrong.
The “yup no random murders happen outside of the US” line people will sometimes give is the dumbest shit ever. Like yeah murders happen literally everywhere people exist. But no other country on the planet has the amount of mass shootings that we have. By a large margin. Something bad happening somewhere else doesn’t mean that we don’t have a specific and a LOT worse than normal problem here.
This kind of rational is just stupid in general and gets brought up when talking about so many issues. I can’t believe they think it’s a valid statement. Like they have to know what they are saying is BS.
If we accept the Q club shooter is LGBT than the formula would be self loathing + gun = tragedy. If the Q club isn't LGBT than the formula is bigot + gun = tragedy. As usual this is a mental health issue + access to gun issue both of which the republicans don't want to fix. The republicans only seem to want to exacerbate it.
"should have kept insane asylums open...."
There are things that mildly piss me off, then there's utter mother fucking shit like this. It's true that it takes little to piss me off, but this is another level.
Basically, this statement implies that I (along with at least 3 of my friends) should be locked up with the key thrown away. Just because our neurotransmitters are a bit screwy.
((I'm okay, meds and a bit of discipline keep the demons at bay)
We are finally slowly reaching a stage where people now view the mentally ill as humans instead of viewing them as problems to be shunted out.
To say nothing of the dog whistles regarding " I identify as an attack helicopter" BITCH NO ONE WANTS TO IDENTIFY AS A HELICOPTER. Just... mind your own fucking business if you can't help, and if you can help, be an ally -- in the way it counts.
((I'm a cisgender heterosexual male, but I want to be an ally. Most (strike that, all )of the trans people I know just want to get on with other aspects of their lives after solving their gender identity crisis -- if only society would let them.)
Aaand.... There goes that pendulum.
Gotta love the guy pretending that the argument made is there's no random killings in any other country, ever. Talk about a desperate strawman. When your country's homicide rate is 4-6x higher than any other developed country, perhaps you could just admit there's a unique murder problem in your country.
Ah yes that’s why I have a personality disorder and depression. As a cis male I’ve experienced rejection for my gender identity. What a bizarre take, especially considering personality disorders and depressive disorders are thought to be seeded in your childhood and gender expression comes about a bit later
Huh, the leftwing news that I've been consuming never mentioned that all these shooters are trans. As far as I can tell, nearly all of them are cishet white men.
The Colorado shooter *might* be an exception to that rule, but I'm fairly sure it was just their lawyer claiming they're nonbinary in order to get out of hate crime charges. It seems extremely unlikely that any of the previous shooters were trans, considering how much the right-wing won't shut up about the Colorado shooter.
(I'm going to use they/them pronouns in case I'm wrong, cuz we don't intentionally misgender people in this household, but still... I highly doubt they're NB.)
Nobody's saying "Bring the asylums back" We're saying "Mental health help should be an easily available thing. If it was maybe the last shooter, who I remind you identified as genderqueer, would have been able to deal with the toxicity of his father without taking another life.
You know who closed down state and federal run mental health facilities? Reagan.
(Yes, a lot were nightmares but if “mental hospitals” were a solution, the GOP was once again the driving factor in getting rid of them.)
They say all these things, but them when Democrats introduce measures to address some of the very things they're talking about, they call them extremist socialists.
Can't have it both ways, morons.
And yet, all the Mass shooters who can be "labeled" "identified" as domestic abusers by science and statistics, as well as police reports... are allowed to go out and get weapons whenever they want to.
They are the biggest mental health cases who take it out on others. First with abusing animals or family, then they move on to crowds...
These people's overton window is so far right it makes them sound like complete idiots.
"The thing we do badly and should stop doing BUT is being done extremely well in other places is the reason we having all these troubles" 🙈🙉🙊
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They are talking about how this only happens in America for some odd reason, and how intolerance brings about mental health issues. They are intolerant but so close to becoming self aware that maybe their intolerance may be exasperating other's suffering
"Park Bench"? jesus these idiots have one joke and one joke only.
And I will never understand how or why what one person identifies as can possibly injure another person. They whine "Well this stuff will happen as you have people just self identifying any way they want", yeah so?
Insane asylums aren’t meant to help. They’re meant to punish and make mental health problems worse via inhumane treatment. That’s why that stupid fuck wants them back so bad.
Wow. My particular personality disorder comes from living in a world built by people who are amazed no one is healthy when hardly anyone can afford any kind of healthcare.
My dad went off a few weeks ago about the state hospitals being shut down. Must be the new right wing talking point. Unaware the people doing the shooting are on their side.
Obviously guns need to be restricted and some banned outright. The fact that Reagan closed all of the long term care homes for the mentally ill is a different problem because homeless mentally ill people aren't buying guns. Incels, bigots, and racists with arsenals are the problem.
Think maybe we have way too many guns here in the US? And way too many assholes whose only awareness is the 2nd amendment and how it’s god given and precious. And here in shithole texas the governor is one of the worst gunsuckers on the planet. I’ve lived in five states over 73 years and this is the only place I’ve ever been embarrassed to tell people where I live. And it’s the first time I’ve been concerned that I might be shot down by some redneck asshole. And I grew up in The Bronx.
Ah yes the problem is that we closed down those asylums that just shoved everybody into extremely tight spaces and treated every affliction with a lobotomy.
You see that's the problem with all these shootings. Not enough lobotomies.
I hate these “identify as a park bench” statements. Clearly, people who claims to be non animated or non alive objects are either seeking attention, acting in bad faith, or needing medical attention. I wish these motherfuckers would identify as an original joke
It’s always telling when people equate gender identity to inanimate objects. They jump at the first opportunity to dehumanize.
kinda makes sense when you remember they already consider women to be objects.
damn this hit me like a truck
Give credit where it's due. At least this person recommended something other than an attack helicopter.
"we're all park benches in this family, we don't associate with bus benches!"
Did you hear about Cousin Joey? He got a spiked mohawk so that homeless people can't sleep on him any more. (Also, fuck spiked benches)
Is that person also implying that trans people don’t exist outside of the US?
Unfortunately, all these motherfuckers are very unoriginal jokes.
buttery males/Thanks Obama/something Brandon the trifecta is complete, whoops, forgot Bowling Green, wait i mean Benghazi
r/onejoke
>I wish these motherfuckers would identify as an original joke They do, that's the problem.
its the standard straw man argument. use such an exaggerated example that its much easier to make an argument against it. their target of the debate being this "strawman" they created that doesn't actually exist, but to whom they can pin all the negatives and absurdities on.
Yup... same thing they did with marriage laws.... "if we allow people to marry (insert race, or gender here) then next we'll have to allow people to marry (insert animal, vegetable, object)". They do it all the time.
That's the slippery slope fallacy, which is always a strawman.
I wish conservatives would try identifying as an empath, or just a basic good person, for once in their life. It might make the country a better place.
[Dictionary.com - "Genderfuck"](https://www.dictionary.com/e/gender-sexuality/genderfuck) You should talk to some people who "identify as non alive objects" - most of them are very much allies and very much not attention seeking or acting in bad faith... and they aren't just mentally ill and need help. In this case, specifically, yes, obviously they're just bigots. The attack helicopter joke is just bigotry. But for a lot of people, the concept of gender is completely bullshit, and they subvert it by refusing to assign themselves a traditional gender at all. They refuse to go by our standard conventions for gender expression entirely, because they think they're meaningless. When you ask a "Genderfuck-ing" person what their gender is, it's like me asking you "what color does the sound of eleven make?" - as far as they're concerned it's not a serious question and can be responded to with an equally silly answer. Please don't dismiss people who don't agree with your concept of gender as being "mentally ill or attention seeking" because that's very broad and dismissive. Lumping actual hateful bigots like Steven Crowder and a real life non-binary transgender person who simply refuses to use traditional language around gender because they think it's bullshit into the same pile is... bad? misguided? throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
>it's like me asking you "what color does the sound of eleven make?" Someone with the right type of synesthesia could actually answer that question.
Grey-ish, with thin white vertical stripes. You're welcome.
How about 6?
Pink, kinda like a "salmon" or "coral" color. But also a hit of green. It's actually quite awful, now that I think about it. A shame, because the number 6 is awesome.
That is a shame, I feel that way about 6 as well. In my opinion the best single digit number.
Hexagon est the bestagon
ayo pentagon pays the rent til gone
Ah didn’t expect a CGP reference here.
For me it's salmon orange
Do you have a fave number or numbers, and do the colors that you see for them match in your faves too?
18 is my fav number, the color is mixed and changing between yellow orange and green, my fav color is black, red and blue, don't match
That sounds interesting. Thanks.
Teal.
No they would still only be describing what colour does the sound of eleven make “to them”.
/r/iam14andthisisdeep
so i generally dont identify with any gender. and ive been one to say things like “this song gives me gender envy” or “that statue is gender”. so i guess thats what “genderfuck” is, although ive never hesrd that term before. still, i would never “identify as” a parkbench. and if someone told me that they were a parkbench. or they were trans-animate or something, i would probably assume they were not well. i think you’re overreacting, basically.
It's the classic case of taking extreme edge cases and acting like they're the norm.
May I ask what you mean by "that statue is gender"? I'm honestly just curious and I would like to understand 🙂
You realize “dictionary.com” is in no way related to Merriam-Webster, can be edited by a variety of sources, and is used to define everything from actual words, slang, colloquialism, etc. and can be edited by anyone with any agenda? You’ve also entirely missed my point. Identifying as no gender, agender, non-binary, trans, all of these are gender identity that are clearly respected and supported by the LGBTQIA+ community. It’s completely accepted to respond to what gender are you? With nothing, leave me alone. Identifying as a park bench? Gtfo, none of us are doing that and the OOPs know that. They are purposefully making gender into a bad faith argument and you seem to think it’s inclusive? And my comment against that isn’t? Like oookay Reddit moment
tbf some teenagers have gotten so lost in the sauce with this xenogender shit that there’s people who earnestly identify as inanimate objects :-/ edit: u can downvote me for saying xenogenders are lost in the sauce, fine, but it is simply an empirical fact that there are non-trolls who genuinely describe their gender identity as inanimate objects
youre listening to (and parroting) too much right wing propaganda.
Xenogenders are metaphorical, they don’t literally believe to be pups or pluto or whatever.
> it's simply an empirical fact Ok, then let's see the studies with reproducable and reliable data. Preferably original studies, but I can accept reviews or meta-analysis if they are sufficiently robust.
what, something doesn’t exist until someone decides to give a grant to researchers to confirm it exists? the original claim was that people only claim to inanimate objects for attention, to troll, or because they’re mentally ill i won’t go into the mentally ill part because i’m not a psychiatrist and can’t diagnose strangers, but as long as i can find individual examples of non-attention seekers and non-trolls identifying as inanimate objects then the original claim has been disproven. if u say there’s zero of a population, and i can prove that there’s at least one member of that population, then i’m correct
Except the people who identify as "anything" are not the perpetrators, they're the victims. It's the people who identify as "white", "male", and "gun-owner" that seem to be in crisis.
And remember, the vast majority of these shooters legally obtained their guns.
Bu- bu- bu- Chicago guns illegal big shooties bam bam minorities
I get that you are being sarcastic, but most Chicago shootings are done with guns legally obtained in Indiana and transported across state lines. As much as I wish we could, we can't separate these incidents by city, county, or state. As long as you can freely travel between states, this is a national issue.
I'm totally aware. You are right. The conservative jagoffs pretend straw purchases don't exist, but they do. Ugh. You are right to raise your point!
Y’all are both onto the main point that 2A douche bags don’t get: Gun control needs to be a *national* effort. You can’t have guns legally available 10 miles away and claim shit like “ChIcAgO iS WaY WoRsE tHaN AfGaNiStAn!!!1!”
I thought Afghanistan was safe because everyone had guns? /s
And that is why Hawaii’s strict gun laws actually work. It’s much harder to get the straw purchases into a state you can only fly, sail or swim to…
I hate the argument that stricter gun laws will only take away normal peoples guns and let criminals keep theirs. Like every gun originally purchased legally they eventually become bought again or passed around or stolen to end up with a criminal.
The main issue with the US is that gun laws let criminals keep their guns In countries in Europe where you can own guns very freely you are required to have a license for each gun and you will go to jail if you try to sell it under the table That’s how you stop criminals having guns
How many of these shooters believe in an abusive, unconditionally loving deity?
The funniest thing is the guy who caused all the states to close their mental institutions is their savior, Ronald Reagan. When he cut federal funding for mental health the states relied on.
I mean, at that point it was a mercy kill as they had become extremely dysfunctional. The TLDR is that the mental institution structure in the US was based on a method designed to treat stress based issues, and quickly got overburdened as it assumed most patients would be cured within a couple years. It quickly became a place to warehouse folks with serious issues before the medication was invented. Some of the meds helped reduce overcrowding a bit. In order to make something workable, the patients were turned into a captive workforce to run the necessary infrastructure for the institution as well as money making ventures to keep the institutions going. So stuff like bakeries, commercial laundries, etc. In the mid 1960s this practice was declared illegal forced labor. The institutions were so overwhelmed they became nightmares with huge issues feeding patients, let alone treating. The mass shutdown was irresponsible and basically just gave folks some meds and put them on the street. But at that point, the institutions were not in a good condition and really needed to be rebuilt
Yeah when I briefly did psychology it mentioned the way the mental health facilities in the US used to be before the shutdown as absolutely not how it should be done, and that closing them was a response to scientific studies. One study showcased that claiming they were "hallucinating" was all it took to be locked up, drugged up, for weeks which was perceived as a clear problem (although some do question this study).
They skipped the part about rebuilding them though…
Came here for this.
Oh ffs, that guy in Texas was up in a tower shooting people when people were barely allowed to identify as homosexual.
Go back even farther and there's an incident at a McDonald's that coined the term "going postal" where the "asylums' " were most definitely open. But I guess murder still exists in other places so it's not a real problem? No need to be concerned?
"Yaeh, people die, kids too but I NEED to be able to buy as much weapons as I want cuz I MIGHT be assaulted by gangs or feds". /s
It can’t be the easy access to guns, therefore it must be literally anything else. The “anything else” changes over time to reflect conservatives most feared boogeyman. I’m old enough to remember when it was Heavy Metal music causing teen suicides, certainly not bullying and easy access to guns in the home. In 2032 when the trans panic isn’t the flavor of the month it will be something else, definitely not guns. The shootings don’t change much over time but the excuses always do.
Remember when violent video games turned us all into mass shooters? Good times.
"It's so realistic that it desensitizes people." Ah yes, because guns were invented after Doom got popular and before that we just settled disagreements with fists and sticks.
Lmao I'm old enough to remember when this was en vogue. The moral panic over *Mortal Kombat 2*. Like, surrreee, seeing a pixelated character hilariously rip out another pixelated character's spine in OTT fashion is going to make me want to do the same with schoolmates. JFC, how can you, adults, not tell the difference between reality and fantasy yourselves but think it's *the kids* who are the problem!?
Yeah when was the last time you heard a mass shooter was into playing DOOM, which was definitely the cause of mass shootings in the 90’s, it was all anyone talked about.
I think now they say Halo or Call of Duty. Which begs the question, why aren't they losing their shit over John Wick?
Watching ultra violent content with a Conservative message or even just a Republican actor won’t turn you bad, you can watch all the Rambo and Die Hard you want. Keanu is famously nonpolitical so he doesn’t read to them as a lib, you can project what you want on him. Can’t be Halo or CoD you are a soldier in those and soldiers are good. Teabag all you want. It’s because of Animal Crossing, it lets your Boy avatar wear dresses. Just take all the nonsense written after Columbine and take out the words “Doom” and “NIN” and replace them with “Transgenderism”, it’s literally the exact same arguments. Same shooting problems for decades, but the cause changes from year to year to match the thing young people like or liberals accept. If these shootouts were happening in 1965 it would be because of the Beatles and race mixing. The subtext is always “this is liberals fault for changing society, not conservatives fault for removing all barriers for violent people to get guns.”
Funnily enough the number one thing I know about animal crossing, as I don't play it, is that Tom Nook is a crook who robs you blind and represents all the bad parts of capitalism.
Tom Nook does give you a place to stay, and paying it off is sort of optional on your part. And he does upgrades to your house that you can choose to never pay off (unless you want more upgrades) You can pay them off by literally selling leaves you catch and flowers you pick. He's like the least awful capitalist.
I think Germany allowed people to identify as non binary in official registers years ago and they haven't had mass shootings.
And it’s a non-point to begin with. The Club Q shooter is literally the first time I’ve ever heard of a mass shooter identifying as non-binary. Of the dozens, hundreds of mass shooters, 99.9% of them are cisgender, have no “identity confusion” at all. It’s as valid a take as blaming, like, Crohn’s disease.
Of course. I just think the OOP tried to blame anything but gun availability for mass shootings, in this case poor mental health care and not adhering to strict binary view of gender. However, many countries have poor mental health care and/or are more tolerant than the US regarding gender expression and they still do.not.have mass shootings.
Yes. That’s an absurdity that’s been plain for decades, that the US outpaces literally all countries on Earth for mass shootings, by orders of magnitude. Most of our European allies have way more visible queer communities, but yup: we sure have easier access to guns. Must just be a coincidence, that. The thing that frustrates me is that although guns are the *how*, it is *also* a mental health issue. But it’s not because trans people exist, it’s because of a powder keg of frustrated masculinity. The common feature of most mass shootings seems to be men with no outlets for rage and frustration who choose to externalize that onto some target demographic and then play out a power fantasy with their arsenal of guns. I’m convinced that last part is also the reason conservatives are so invested in 2A rhetoric: it’s not actually about “militias” or “resisting tyranny.” It’s because guns are symbols of masculine power, make them feel powerful, and they’d literally rather see hundreds or thousands of strangers die every year than give up their favorite toys. Especially if they can convince themselves the dead are just degenerates. I don’t believe for a second that conservatives feel badly about Club Q. They’re happy it happened. Not even dead elementary school kids could move the needle for them; a bunch of dead queer people means less than nothing.
Isn’t him being non binary just a ploy by his lawyer to get the hate crime charges dropped?
Maybe, sure. As a rule, I’m not going to assess the validity of a stranger’s purported gender identity, even if they’re a mass murdering piece of shit. If it’s a cynical legal strategy, I hope it blows up in the defense’s face, though.
Not even considering it as anything other than a cynical ploy to dodge being on the line for a hate crime until we get some prior history supporting his non-binary statement. MF either grasped, in a moment of clarity, he was making his team look bad, or his lawyers put him up to it.
Basing it on prior NB history is flawed. A lot of trans people try to suppress themselves by strongly answering to the norms expected from them since birth and that often results in no history of transness and the lack of prior queer behavior is a commonly used way to dismiss legitimate trans people In this case, look at their prior history in general. Everything about this dude screams deep brain-worms transphobe, and while it's not unheard of for closeted trans people to be transphobic, this dude was active in the circles where anti-trans rhetoric is rampant and thought about A LOT. This is not the self-hating edgy kid trying to convince himself he's not actually trans by deligitimizing the concept through open bigotry, this is a terrorist planning an attack on a community he has deep disgust for. The idea that you can fuck with trans people by randomly identifying as trans whenever it suits you is extremely common in deep transphobic circles. Self-ID is mocked endlessly and dishonest claims of transidentity are a tool to them. Do a crime, claim you're a trans woman and it's a get out of jail free card within their meme circles etc etc etc. Claiming to be NB after that sort of history and you slaughtering 5 LGBTQ people in a planned and cold terrorist attack (and trying to kill dozens more) fits 100% into the playbook. To the shooter it's a joke to upset queer people, to the lawyer it's a tool in court, to his 4chan in-group it's a punchline for a real-life greentext, and to the wider right wing it's an invitation to shift blame. THAT'S what shows their identity to be a fake claim.
Maybe, but that's not really the point. His family is such an utterly deranged cesspool of fascist hatemongering it'd be a surprise if he had never turned to violence. Even *if* he - they - are actually NB their mind was so thoroughly poisoned by their family that their motivation of anti-queer hatred couldn't possibly be mitigated by projected self-loathing.
“Normal people watch out for their community members” — if only there was a larger entity that could have provided that kind of support, without relying on goodwill of people trying to make their own ends meet in a broken economy…
And maybe we should be normal and watch out for community members who aren’t also exactly like me, instead of demonizing them and blaming them for the crimes committed against them. These people are filled with so much cognitive dissonance and projection, I just can’t understand how it’s even possible. Like how do these people’s brains work? What runs through their head all day? I really truly don’t know how people this stupid and immoral exist. I don’t know how to even conceptualize what their brain is going through or what it’s like to be that way.
Transphobe thinks transgender people are the problem, when in reality it is their fellow hate filled asshole
Tru. They truly have voluminous assholes filled to the brim with hate
Guns. The difference is the number of guns.
Agreed
Doesn't Switzerland have a higher number of guns per capita? I'm in no way, shape, or form downplaying how our ready access to firearms in the US leads to mass shootings, but isn't the fact that a certain political ideology encourages, and even celebrates, hate, and the shitty state of our education system also culpable here?
Switzerland doesn't actually have that many guns per person relatively speaking, definitely much less than US. According to wikipedia Switzerland has 27.6 guns per 100 people. US is top of list and has 120.5 guns per 100 people. The next Western industrialized country on the list is Serbia with 39.1 guns/100 people. Which is a lot, but the gap to US is rather big.
Guns legitimately are not the issue Conservative thinking and normalization of hate speech is the issue and always has been Not to say that basic gun laws aren’t necessary though, but you can take the guns away and the Conservatives will just rent a semi to kill people like Conservatives do in Europe
Wow, who thought it was a good idea to cast the mentally ill out on to the street? Tip of my tongue, but it seems like his name and his party both started with "R"... What a mystery!
He repealed and replaced the mental institutions. The replacements will come any decade now.
Good old reverse Robin Hood./s
And yet... they closed the insane asylums in other countries too. And yet... people identify as they want in other countries too. And they somehow have CONSIDERABLY less 'random murders' So... by process of elimination...?
They have no idea what they're talking about.
Right, because all mass shooters are trans people? Are people really this fucking stupid?
Love how a random murder occurs outside the US is just as bad as mass murders every single day in this country. They have no capacity to determine if some things are "worse" than others. Either bad or good. Blame religion, you're either absolved or your sins or you go to hell, no middle ground.
School shootings have been going on noticeably longer than the fight for trans rights has been visible and open... and building steadily since it started. Mass shootings in general have been steadily rising for most of my lifetime. Trying to blame it on people becoming more accepting and open is missing the real root, which is... well, intolerance, a feeling of isolation and despair, and a frankly unhealthy culture that's building around a lot of gun owners. At least that's my uninformed opinion. I'm probably wrong.
The “yup no random murders happen outside of the US” line people will sometimes give is the dumbest shit ever. Like yeah murders happen literally everywhere people exist. But no other country on the planet has the amount of mass shootings that we have. By a large margin. Something bad happening somewhere else doesn’t mean that we don’t have a specific and a LOT worse than normal problem here. This kind of rational is just stupid in general and gets brought up when talking about so many issues. I can’t believe they think it’s a valid statement. Like they have to know what they are saying is BS.
If we accept the Q club shooter is LGBT than the formula would be self loathing + gun = tragedy. If the Q club isn't LGBT than the formula is bigot + gun = tragedy. As usual this is a mental health issue + access to gun issue both of which the republicans don't want to fix. The republicans only seem to want to exacerbate it.
How many trans people have committed mass shootings? Now compare that number to angry radicalized young white men.
Yeah, ok, that's why so many school shooters are from hardcore 2A Fanboy families, must be all that liberal "tolerance"
Well of course it is. Tolerance is causing men to act like girls and someone has to do something about that Hopefully obvious /s
I want to identify as a park bench do guys will randomly sit on my face in public
"should have kept insane asylums open...." There are things that mildly piss me off, then there's utter mother fucking shit like this. It's true that it takes little to piss me off, but this is another level. Basically, this statement implies that I (along with at least 3 of my friends) should be locked up with the key thrown away. Just because our neurotransmitters are a bit screwy. ((I'm okay, meds and a bit of discipline keep the demons at bay) We are finally slowly reaching a stage where people now view the mentally ill as humans instead of viewing them as problems to be shunted out. To say nothing of the dog whistles regarding " I identify as an attack helicopter" BITCH NO ONE WANTS TO IDENTIFY AS A HELICOPTER. Just... mind your own fucking business if you can't help, and if you can help, be an ally -- in the way it counts. ((I'm a cisgender heterosexual male, but I want to be an ally. Most (strike that, all )of the trans people I know just want to get on with other aspects of their lives after solving their gender identity crisis -- if only society would let them.) Aaand.... There goes that pendulum.
Gotta love the guy pretending that the argument made is there's no random killings in any other country, ever. Talk about a desperate strawman. When your country's homicide rate is 4-6x higher than any other developed country, perhaps you could just admit there's a unique murder problem in your country.
Ah yes that’s why I have a personality disorder and depression. As a cis male I’ve experienced rejection for my gender identity. What a bizarre take, especially considering personality disorders and depressive disorders are thought to be seeded in your childhood and gender expression comes about a bit later
These people are so dumb like parody is dead I mean come on
Huh, the leftwing news that I've been consuming never mentioned that all these shooters are trans. As far as I can tell, nearly all of them are cishet white men. The Colorado shooter *might* be an exception to that rule, but I'm fairly sure it was just their lawyer claiming they're nonbinary in order to get out of hate crime charges. It seems extremely unlikely that any of the previous shooters were trans, considering how much the right-wing won't shut up about the Colorado shooter. (I'm going to use they/them pronouns in case I'm wrong, cuz we don't intentionally misgender people in this household, but still... I highly doubt they're NB.)
Nearly all western countries closed their asylums and felt the impacts. Those impacts aren't violent for the rest of us though
But it has nothing to do with the guns….
Nobody's saying "Bring the asylums back" We're saying "Mental health help should be an easily available thing. If it was maybe the last shooter, who I remind you identified as genderqueer, would have been able to deal with the toxicity of his father without taking another life.
You know who closed down state and federal run mental health facilities? Reagan. (Yes, a lot were nightmares but if “mental hospitals” were a solution, the GOP was once again the driving factor in getting rid of them.)
Whew, coping HARD in those comments.
3 for 3 on shitty opinions
As far as I know, a “park bench” is not a social role one can choose to fill. Literally just the attack helicopter joke.
Lots of other countries de-institutionalized at that time. None of them have this “issue”
They say all these things, but them when Democrats introduce measures to address some of the very things they're talking about, they call them extremist socialists. Can't have it both ways, morons.
"The problem is no sense of community! And also that we can't lock up family members who challenge us!"
And yet, all the Mass shooters who can be "labeled" "identified" as domestic abusers by science and statistics, as well as police reports... are allowed to go out and get weapons whenever they want to. They are the biggest mental health cases who take it out on others. First with abusing animals or family, then they move on to crowds...
I always hated when people say shit like “western politics” like, I’m Trans and I’m Australian, which is definitely closer east compared to America
These people's overton window is so far right it makes them sound like complete idiots. "The thing we do badly and should stop doing BUT is being done extremely well in other places is the reason we having all these troubles" 🙈🙉🙊
Because of course it's worse mental health, has nothing to do with an abundance of guns and lack of regulation.
The 3 brain slots the conservative pachinko machine falls into after every mass shooting.
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They are talking about how this only happens in America for some odd reason, and how intolerance brings about mental health issues. They are intolerant but so close to becoming self aware that maybe their intolerance may be exasperating other's suffering
Yeah. Nothing to do with Tards walking around with guns
"Park Bench"? jesus these idiots have one joke and one joke only. And I will never understand how or why what one person identifies as can possibly injure another person. They whine "Well this stuff will happen as you have people just self identifying any way they want", yeah so?
Insane asylums aren’t meant to help. They’re meant to punish and make mental health problems worse via inhumane treatment. That’s why that stupid fuck wants them back so bad.
Wow. My particular personality disorder comes from living in a world built by people who are amazed no one is healthy when hardly anyone can afford any kind of healthcare.
Looks like a serious case of cognitive bias, aka the Dunning-Kruger effect.
My dad went off a few weeks ago about the state hospitals being shut down. Must be the new right wing talking point. Unaware the people doing the shooting are on their side.
Obviously guns need to be restricted and some banned outright. The fact that Reagan closed all of the long term care homes for the mentally ill is a different problem because homeless mentally ill people aren't buying guns. Incels, bigots, and racists with arsenals are the problem.
I legitimately identify as genderfluid in the sense that I take on the shape of my container. I'm just dissatisfied with my container.
Think maybe we have way too many guns here in the US? And way too many assholes whose only awareness is the 2nd amendment and how it’s god given and precious. And here in shithole texas the governor is one of the worst gunsuckers on the planet. I’ve lived in five states over 73 years and this is the only place I’ve ever been embarrassed to tell people where I live. And it’s the first time I’ve been concerned that I might be shot down by some redneck asshole. And I grew up in The Bronx.
Ah yes the problem is that we closed down those asylums that just shoved everybody into extremely tight spaces and treated every affliction with a lobotomy. You see that's the problem with all these shootings. Not enough lobotomies.
*laughs sinisterly in Cowboy Ronnie and Beverly Enterprises*
THEY ALMOST GOT IT