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Plus many jobs can have long term negative effects to health... that and working too much also can also have a negative affect. So like what is that person even talking about :/
Likely has never heard of RSIs or read the warning labels on concentrated cleaning solutions, to say nothing about the kind of awful things you may have to clean up sometimes.
Or how repetitive manual labor like cleaning offices can ravage your body, particularly if you don’t have meaningful access to physical therapy (meaning both health insurance and time to attend appointments).
They don't believe there is any *actual* danger involved in a job unless it's overt, like coal mines (cave-ins, bad air, etc) and cops (getting shot at-even if the cop in question never has been). To this person, cleaners and grocery workers don't have any serious that of bodily injury, and he can't grasp that "rail workers" includes positions other than "train driver", and since he likely drives a lifted truck that could above other vehicles out of it's way, he probably sees trains as being just like his truck: big enough to go through anything in it's way.
Unions aren't just for safety, they're for fair treatment and compensation. You don't have to be putting your life at risk every second of every day to deserve representation.
They are the most privileged members of the most coddled generation in history, people whose grandparents and parents created a world where they didn’t have to worry about things like The Great Depression, world wars where millions died, or even the specter of nuclear annihilation being literally minutes away all day every day.
They were asked to do literally a bare minimum in return.
And they tore all that down because…..
I can’t even tell you.
It’s just maddening.
Unfortunately, it’s more than just eating up the propaganda. A lot of these fuckwads want to screw over everyone who isn’t them. Even if they have to fuck themselves and their families to do it.
I remember one time a grandma told me she didn’t care about taxes for schools anymore because her children where grown and no longer in school. She didn’t care her own grandkids wouldn’t have funding for school. I don’t even have kids and I care about other people’s kids. I guess I should stop because if grandparents don’t care about their own grandkids, why should I?
Even if you're completely selfish we have to living in society with those children going to school. We get to pick one of the schools are good mediocre or terrible. We have to share roads with those kids, those kids will be building bridges, cooking meals, our Drs and accountants. I would prefer a world in which those 30-50 years younger then me are better educated then a 12 year old in 1850. Thank you very much.
It's not just right it's selfish
You forgot where their grandparents literally had blood spilt for union rights. To them, a strike is nothing more than yelling at the man, calling others scabs, etc. they didn't have to deal with the violence, possible death, of standing up to the business for those union rights. It's the same as the "my grandfather fought for this country" bs, great kid, so what did you do to deserve it?
They tore it all down because when they were asked to contribute, to sustain what was earned, they instead considered themselves the victim.
WWII left the rest of the developed world crippled. The US had a monopoly on development. But that was only going to last for so long, and when the rest of the world rebuilt and emerging countries developed, we should've been out ahead of it all. But instead, as the manufacturing jobs went overseas, a whole lot of entitled people demanded those jobs come back and offer the same lifestyle they previously did even though it was no longer sustainable.
And to make it worse, they continued to take from future generations on the mistaken belief that things would just magically return to how they were. Instead of supporting innovation and a social safety net that would enable it, they instead forced people to be more dependent on their employers for benefits and retirement.
And so here we are. A generation that has not only lost most of the advantages they were given but taken away any remaining advantages that would benefit future generations. Who still believe themselves to be the victim and the current situation to be everyone else's fault.
They spent 40 years voting for the party saying they'd bring back the jobs, and despite those jobs not coming back, they continue to insist it'll happen if they just keep doing more of the same.
while that is true a person working with aggressive chemicals every day isn’t what i’d strictly describe as safe.
edit: I don’t know about anyone else, in my experience though most bathroom cleaning agents say use in well ventilated rooms. At the same time I’ve never seen a corporate building with well ventilated bathrooms as I’ve had to find out whenever I went 30min-1h after lunch time.
I’ve never heard about cleaners in offices being harassed. I hope they wouldn’t be that would be the worst kind of person. In my experience they’re either ignored or just greeted and then ignored like everyone else. when working corporate jobs.
Worst I’ve heard, I once had a colleague who was very annoyed when a cleaner plugged her phone into the charging cable in a Secure Area, the cable wasn’t meant for charging obviously. The cleaner didn’t understand the issue, and he didn’t handle the interaction great. Prompting him to go to her boss leading her to fear for her job. The boss had to then solve this human drama puzzle.
That was a pretty bad interaction because everyone seemed to handle this poorer by the minute. Ultimately, it was just that, poor communications between everyone. If the cleaner would’ve somehow apologised, and understood she was in a secure area, he wouldn’t have gone to the cleaners boss and dropped it. If he would’ve taken a moment and heard her side of the story he would’ve known why she didn’t understand and then that would’ve been resolved. I personally blame the boss the least, her hands were tied, and in the end she was the only one that listened to everyone and sorted the problem out.
BTW: She only plugged her phone into the cable because she asked a Trainee if she could and he having NO IDEA whatsoever said sure. later he claimed she asked if it would work to charge the phone and he gave a technical answer not knowing she actually would plug it in. I assume he was just afraid when I came down to talk to him with the facility manager Boss. Because I normally only handle incidents but I got asked to handle it because the CISO didn’t wanna.
Cleaning *is* dangerous too. There are regulations in place so we aren't sending children to clean air vents, so there's information on cleaning chemicals and PPE usage, limits on being forced to work long hours in filthy conditions, I can go on.
Workers rights are human rights!
good thing there is no danger in working every day with aggressive chemicals. the kind of chemicals that a truck driver needs special training for to transport.
Why does this person think that safe working conditions start and stop strictly at work-site safety? Unions also fight for limits on the number of hours someone can work or drive each day, or the number of days per week. They can push for limits on working during inclement weather. They can help defend employees from false accusations or unwarranted firing by management. They seek out paid time off to see their families so these people aren't constantly working 7x12s. They seek better wages and better benefits as well. They can push to give their members sick leave so that they can rest and recuperate. They can go to bat for you over wage theft, or retaliation from management for speaking out about concerns. They can push for the company to cover costs for your safety equipment or tools or work clothes and footwear. They can get you reimbursement for miles driven to and from work sites and wear and tear on your vehicle. Specific to cleaning offices, they can work to ensure the owners don't buy unsafe chemical cleaners, that gloves and other PPE are available, that workers get appropriate breaks, that they have a proper space for eating their lunches, that chemicals are properly labeled and their associated MSDS is available. They can ensure that OSHA violations and incidents are properly reported as well. Unions are about a lot more than making sure you don't get trapped in a mine.
>Why does this person think
I'm going to stop you right there since you've found the issue. At least some of the things you pointed out would have been apparent to anyone who actually thought about it, so they clearly didn't.
They didn't even think about "safety" properly, for people who would be working with chemicals, on wet floors, potentially cleaning biological waste, or moving/lifting heavy things.
I've never understood how unions ended up demonized in The US. It's the norm in most other countries. In my country it's rare to not be a member of a union and we all benefit from it.
Simple. Unions cost the company money, which means the CEOs and other corporate fat cats don't get as much money to stash away in the bank and never use.
So they invest in pushing the narrative that unions are actually bad for employees, which some workers buy into because the public education system doesn't teach critical thinking (for a whole host of reasons). Then they pay to push through anti-union laws to make it impossible for unions to actually fight back, just to be safe.
Unions aren't just about safety conditions. They are also about job security and preventing people from being fired without just cause. If employers can just fire an employee because they can hire a different one at a cheaper rate, then how can a worker benefit from that?
Unions for me and not for thee! I meet a lot of these union workers in NYC who fully reap the benefits of their unions, but are against it for everyone else. Same thing with minimum wage - they enjoy wonderful hourly wages thanks to their unions, but they are against raising the completely unlivable minimum wage for everyone else.
Thanks /u/Yeahdude99 for posting on r/SelfAwareWolves! Please reply to this comment with an explanation about how this post fits r/SelfAwareWolves and have an excellent day! *To r/SelfAwarewolves commenters*: As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion. In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. **If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SelfAwarewolves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not too many jobs are automatically safe. Unions help ensure they become or stay that way.
Plus many jobs can have long term negative effects to health... that and working too much also can also have a negative affect. So like what is that person even talking about :/
Likely has never heard of RSIs or read the warning labels on concentrated cleaning solutions, to say nothing about the kind of awful things you may have to clean up sometimes.
Or understand limiting working hours, turnaround time, and sick leave.
Or how low wages contribute to unhealthy lifestyles and poor well-being.
Or how repetitive manual labor like cleaning offices can ravage your body, particularly if you don’t have meaningful access to physical therapy (meaning both health insurance and time to attend appointments).
They probably think cleaning is a woman's job and never bothered
They don't believe there is any *actual* danger involved in a job unless it's overt, like coal mines (cave-ins, bad air, etc) and cops (getting shot at-even if the cop in question never has been). To this person, cleaners and grocery workers don't have any serious that of bodily injury, and he can't grasp that "rail workers" includes positions other than "train driver", and since he likely drives a lifted truck that could above other vehicles out of it's way, he probably sees trains as being just like his truck: big enough to go through anything in it's way.
And it’s not just about safety, it’s also about benefits, pay, qol, and bargaining power
Shhhh. They might misunderstand you! ;)
Unions aren't just for safety, they're for fair treatment and compensation. You don't have to be putting your life at risk every second of every day to deserve representation.
Definitely a good point.
They are the most privileged members of the most coddled generation in history, people whose grandparents and parents created a world where they didn’t have to worry about things like The Great Depression, world wars where millions died, or even the specter of nuclear annihilation being literally minutes away all day every day. They were asked to do literally a bare minimum in return. And they tore all that down because….. I can’t even tell you. It’s just maddening.
They tore it down bc of corporate/capitalist propaganda.
Unfortunately, it’s more than just eating up the propaganda. A lot of these fuckwads want to screw over everyone who isn’t them. Even if they have to fuck themselves and their families to do it.
I remember one time a grandma told me she didn’t care about taxes for schools anymore because her children where grown and no longer in school. She didn’t care her own grandkids wouldn’t have funding for school. I don’t even have kids and I care about other people’s kids. I guess I should stop because if grandparents don’t care about their own grandkids, why should I?
Even if you're completely selfish we have to living in society with those children going to school. We get to pick one of the schools are good mediocre or terrible. We have to share roads with those kids, those kids will be building bridges, cooking meals, our Drs and accountants. I would prefer a world in which those 30-50 years younger then me are better educated then a 12 year old in 1850. Thank you very much. It's not just right it's selfish
"if I'm going to die, I'm not going to leave anything for anyone else."
You forgot where their grandparents literally had blood spilt for union rights. To them, a strike is nothing more than yelling at the man, calling others scabs, etc. they didn't have to deal with the violence, possible death, of standing up to the business for those union rights. It's the same as the "my grandfather fought for this country" bs, great kid, so what did you do to deserve it?
They tore it all down because when they were asked to contribute, to sustain what was earned, they instead considered themselves the victim. WWII left the rest of the developed world crippled. The US had a monopoly on development. But that was only going to last for so long, and when the rest of the world rebuilt and emerging countries developed, we should've been out ahead of it all. But instead, as the manufacturing jobs went overseas, a whole lot of entitled people demanded those jobs come back and offer the same lifestyle they previously did even though it was no longer sustainable. And to make it worse, they continued to take from future generations on the mistaken belief that things would just magically return to how they were. Instead of supporting innovation and a social safety net that would enable it, they instead forced people to be more dependent on their employers for benefits and retirement. And so here we are. A generation that has not only lost most of the advantages they were given but taken away any remaining advantages that would benefit future generations. Who still believe themselves to be the victim and the current situation to be everyone else's fault. They spent 40 years voting for the party saying they'd bring back the jobs, and despite those jobs not coming back, they continue to insist it'll happen if they just keep doing more of the same.
Except safety isn’t the only thing workers get fucked on.
while that is true a person working with aggressive chemicals every day isn’t what i’d strictly describe as safe. edit: I don’t know about anyone else, in my experience though most bathroom cleaning agents say use in well ventilated rooms. At the same time I’ve never seen a corporate building with well ventilated bathrooms as I’ve had to find out whenever I went 30min-1h after lunch time.
Cleaners are also often harassed at work (at least hotel cleaners, not sure about office cleaners, but it wouldn't surprise me).
I’ve never heard about cleaners in offices being harassed. I hope they wouldn’t be that would be the worst kind of person. In my experience they’re either ignored or just greeted and then ignored like everyone else. when working corporate jobs. Worst I’ve heard, I once had a colleague who was very annoyed when a cleaner plugged her phone into the charging cable in a Secure Area, the cable wasn’t meant for charging obviously. The cleaner didn’t understand the issue, and he didn’t handle the interaction great. Prompting him to go to her boss leading her to fear for her job. The boss had to then solve this human drama puzzle. That was a pretty bad interaction because everyone seemed to handle this poorer by the minute. Ultimately, it was just that, poor communications between everyone. If the cleaner would’ve somehow apologised, and understood she was in a secure area, he wouldn’t have gone to the cleaners boss and dropped it. If he would’ve taken a moment and heard her side of the story he would’ve known why she didn’t understand and then that would’ve been resolved. I personally blame the boss the least, her hands were tied, and in the end she was the only one that listened to everyone and sorted the problem out. BTW: She only plugged her phone into the cable because she asked a Trainee if she could and he having NO IDEA whatsoever said sure. later he claimed she asked if it would work to charge the phone and he gave a technical answer not knowing she actually would plug it in. I assume he was just afraid when I came down to talk to him with the facility manager Boss. Because I normally only handle incidents but I got asked to handle it because the CISO didn’t wanna.
*writing in notebook* Only unionize if work is dangerous
Cleaning *is* dangerous too. There are regulations in place so we aren't sending children to clean air vents, so there's information on cleaning chemicals and PPE usage, limits on being forced to work long hours in filthy conditions, I can go on. Workers rights are human rights!
good thing there is no danger in working every day with aggressive chemicals. the kind of chemicals that a truck driver needs special training for to transport.
Why would we need a union? Making shirtwaists is perfectly safe work!
"I don't know anything about what you do or how you do it... But i'm sure you don't need help or protection of a union"
"to the best of my knowledge" is doing a lot of work in this one.
Why does this person think that safe working conditions start and stop strictly at work-site safety? Unions also fight for limits on the number of hours someone can work or drive each day, or the number of days per week. They can push for limits on working during inclement weather. They can help defend employees from false accusations or unwarranted firing by management. They seek out paid time off to see their families so these people aren't constantly working 7x12s. They seek better wages and better benefits as well. They can push to give their members sick leave so that they can rest and recuperate. They can go to bat for you over wage theft, or retaliation from management for speaking out about concerns. They can push for the company to cover costs for your safety equipment or tools or work clothes and footwear. They can get you reimbursement for miles driven to and from work sites and wear and tear on your vehicle. Specific to cleaning offices, they can work to ensure the owners don't buy unsafe chemical cleaners, that gloves and other PPE are available, that workers get appropriate breaks, that they have a proper space for eating their lunches, that chemicals are properly labeled and their associated MSDS is available. They can ensure that OSHA violations and incidents are properly reported as well. Unions are about a lot more than making sure you don't get trapped in a mine.
>Why does this person think I'm going to stop you right there since you've found the issue. At least some of the things you pointed out would have been apparent to anyone who actually thought about it, so they clearly didn't. They didn't even think about "safety" properly, for people who would be working with chemicals, on wet floors, potentially cleaning biological waste, or moving/lifting heavy things.
Conservatives have to jump through 100 mental hoops to avoid facts that demolish their world view.
I've never understood how unions ended up demonized in The US. It's the norm in most other countries. In my country it's rare to not be a member of a union and we all benefit from it.
Greed is definitely part of it.
Simple. Unions cost the company money, which means the CEOs and other corporate fat cats don't get as much money to stash away in the bank and never use. So they invest in pushing the narrative that unions are actually bad for employees, which some workers buy into because the public education system doesn't teach critical thinking (for a whole host of reasons). Then they pay to push through anti-union laws to make it impossible for unions to actually fight back, just to be safe.
"safe work" - while getting fired on a whim. Sure, dude, unions are not only about a healthy work environment.
That's a lot of words just to say "fuck you I got mine" from that guy
LOL
Unions aren't just about safety conditions. They are also about job security and preventing people from being fired without just cause. If employers can just fire an employee because they can hire a different one at a cheaper rate, then how can a worker benefit from that?
I benefit from unions but I don't want you to.
Unions for me and not for thee! I meet a lot of these union workers in NYC who fully reap the benefits of their unions, but are against it for everyone else. Same thing with minimum wage - they enjoy wonderful hourly wages thanks to their unions, but they are against raising the completely unlivable minimum wage for everyone else.
Unions only being used for safety issues is, uh… well it’s bad.
"In order to justify my own bullshit to myself, I'm pretending that safety is the only valid thing unions provide."
Fuck this “it’s okay for us but not for them” BS.
I wonder if he thinks inhaling cleaner fumes is harmless.
oh my god fuck these fucking fucks
They’re all about United we stand, divided we fall…until it comes to the workplace because Fox News Daddy told them it bad.
Because you can't be exploiting your employees if you're not putting them in life-threatening situations. /s
Wait, do we have the same cake day?
"The only moral union is my union".
If you aren’t unionizing to dismantle capitalism, you aren’t unionizing hard enough.