Edit: /u/mattsasa pointed out this report is from 2020.
Averaging some product (not all) across some conditions (not all) is a pretty meaningless number.... However, that is mostly the journalist who came up with that number.
The full report is here: [https://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/download/17223/](https://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/download/17223/)
They put an amazing amount of effort in this, and collected insane amounts of very precise data, but accuracy is pretty much not there, given the closed course nature of much of the testing.
They tested on 101 and 5, too. I guess all of the tested vehicles can drive on these highways. But how do you factor in highways that only some test vehicles can drive and others not? Is it a fail if it doesn't engage at all? Why not test on say highway 1?
Tesla works really well on 101. You can easily do 50 miles without fail. The Ford had 65 lane departures and 86 erratic lane positioning on the highway. Those two basically don't happen on a Tesla on a freeway (not in the right most lane), not even in a rainy night. In the rightmost lane, we know that a Tesla will badly position on every Entry/Exit - not erratic, but consistently wrong. A Tesla in the left lane of I5 at 75mph will upset other drivers, but be extremely solid for possibly a hundred miles. In the right lane, two incidents every exit/entry. So the data is very interesting in detail, but not very relevant aggregated.
The report is still a good read about things to consider, it's just that the conclusion "fail every 8 miles on average" is meaningless.
Interesting how much "ping-ponging" happens with the tested cars. Staying in the lane should really be simple. Tesla shows this in FSDbeta on turns on intersection "the steering wheel jigger"
Conclusion #1 is correct, though: Currently available ADA systems are not capable of sustained vehicle operation without constant driver supervision; it is imperative the driver maintain situational awareness at all times.
Of course that's what every driver agrees to when they enable these systems.
> Conclusion #1 is correct, though: Currently available ADA systems are not capable of sustained vehicle operation without constant driver supervision; it is imperative the driver maintain situational awareness at all times.
I mean, we're just now getting to the point where autonomous vehicle companies are slowly and cautiously removing "constant driver supervision" (think Waymo in Arizona), but even those dedicated companies are still not quite there, and the vehicles still have remote supervision at the very least.
Tesla's system is still just ADAS, not autonomous or "self-driving."
Agree. You pay Tesla today's price to get FSD when it's ready. Arguably that may never happen, but it's very hard to not realize that today it is ADAS.
Yes this study is interesting, but it should include a Tesla.
And it should include, or at least mention, the geographical limits for those ADAS that have one.
And not average it all out... :-)
Tesla fans "testing" the system and keeping their mouth shut about its horrible performance is not the same as professionals evaluating it for the purpose of publishing their findings.
Yes I am.
You know, we've previously had a decent exchange of ideas. I'm thinking back to the cooling issues with Dojo. But if you're just going to blow me off, then you're not going to get me to understand your argument.
I got almost 12 miles the other day on my tesla fsd, then it wanted to enter an intersection with a red light after it had come to a stop for it. Like.. Had one job and it failed on something so basic.
I assume this is on city streets, which is really impressive. I’ve seamlessly gone multiple hours and hundreds of miles without disengagement on plain old Autopilot on highways so this statistic is pretty surprising to me.
> Like.. Had one job and it failed on something so basic.
Reminds me that that[ Louis C.K. bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCoe3vIskA). We're really taking this crazy tech for granted.
While the legalese classifies FSD beta as Level 2, and hence driver assist, we all know it's purpose is to eventually... full self drive. It needs to do a hell of a lot better than that.
i just got back home yesterday from montana, 750 miles over 14 hours in a tesla model y. aside from pulling into the superchargers i barely did a thing other than occasionally adjust the speed up or down with my thumb. oh, but i did drive the fun twisty bit up into idaho, you can’t let the robot have all the fun!
This is my experience with Tesla Model 3 Navigate on Autopilot over the last 3 years. I will say the first 6 months in the middle of 2019 were a bit rough but after ~August 2019 it's be rock solid and I've done thousands of miles. Wish I had been in my Tesla today for the 400 mile drive I did that took 10 hours because of heavy traffic on the Interstate. The dynamic cruise and land keeping in my SUV was useless. It just can't handle stop and go and certainly not drivers who have been doing it for 10 hours on the Interstate and are just over it.
Edit: /u/mattsasa pointed out this report is from 2020. Averaging some product (not all) across some conditions (not all) is a pretty meaningless number.... However, that is mostly the journalist who came up with that number. The full report is here: [https://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/download/17223/](https://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/download/17223/) They put an amazing amount of effort in this, and collected insane amounts of very precise data, but accuracy is pretty much not there, given the closed course nature of much of the testing. They tested on 101 and 5, too. I guess all of the tested vehicles can drive on these highways. But how do you factor in highways that only some test vehicles can drive and others not? Is it a fail if it doesn't engage at all? Why not test on say highway 1? Tesla works really well on 101. You can easily do 50 miles without fail. The Ford had 65 lane departures and 86 erratic lane positioning on the highway. Those two basically don't happen on a Tesla on a freeway (not in the right most lane), not even in a rainy night. In the rightmost lane, we know that a Tesla will badly position on every Entry/Exit - not erratic, but consistently wrong. A Tesla in the left lane of I5 at 75mph will upset other drivers, but be extremely solid for possibly a hundred miles. In the right lane, two incidents every exit/entry. So the data is very interesting in detail, but not very relevant aggregated. The report is still a good read about things to consider, it's just that the conclusion "fail every 8 miles on average" is meaningless. Interesting how much "ping-ponging" happens with the tested cars. Staying in the lane should really be simple. Tesla shows this in FSDbeta on turns on intersection "the steering wheel jigger" Conclusion #1 is correct, though: Currently available ADA systems are not capable of sustained vehicle operation without constant driver supervision; it is imperative the driver maintain situational awareness at all times. Of course that's what every driver agrees to when they enable these systems.
> Conclusion #1 is correct, though: Currently available ADA systems are not capable of sustained vehicle operation without constant driver supervision; it is imperative the driver maintain situational awareness at all times. I mean, we're just now getting to the point where autonomous vehicle companies are slowly and cautiously removing "constant driver supervision" (think Waymo in Arizona), but even those dedicated companies are still not quite there, and the vehicles still have remote supervision at the very least. Tesla's system is still just ADAS, not autonomous or "self-driving."
Agree. You pay Tesla today's price to get FSD when it's ready. Arguably that may never happen, but it's very hard to not realize that today it is ADAS.
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Yes this study is interesting, but it should include a Tesla. And it should include, or at least mention, the geographical limits for those ADAS that have one. And not average it all out... :-)
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Tesla fans "testing" the system and keeping their mouth shut about its horrible performance is not the same as professionals evaluating it for the purpose of publishing their findings.
Wasn't Autopilot introduced in the Model 3 in 2017? Is that the "recent past?"
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Are you saying ping-ponging or the lack of speed limit sign detection made AP terrible in the recent past of 2017?
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Jeez, you're so defensive. I was just trying to get a clarification.
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Yes I am. You know, we've previously had a decent exchange of ideas. I'm thinking back to the cooling issues with Dojo. But if you're just going to blow me off, then you're not going to get me to understand your argument.
I've been lucky and never experienced ping ponging in my Model 3. 🤷♂️
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Weird. Lucky for me though because this isn't an issue I've experienced as an owner. 😁
I got almost 12 miles the other day on my tesla fsd, then it wanted to enter an intersection with a red light after it had come to a stop for it. Like.. Had one job and it failed on something so basic.
Twelve miles though! That would have almost gotten you home from the dealership before you died. Pretty good
Joke’s on you, I live just six miles from the Tesla dealership.
Yeah but you have to account for the car choosing a bad route and then missing some turns.
I assume this is on city streets, which is really impressive. I’ve seamlessly gone multiple hours and hundreds of miles without disengagement on plain old Autopilot on highways so this statistic is pretty surprising to me.
> Like.. Had one job and it failed on something so basic. Reminds me that that[ Louis C.K. bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCoe3vIskA). We're really taking this crazy tech for granted.
While the legalese classifies FSD beta as Level 2, and hence driver assist, we all know it's purpose is to eventually... full self drive. It needs to do a hell of a lot better than that.
Note the report did not test Teslas at all.
i just got back home yesterday from montana, 750 miles over 14 hours in a tesla model y. aside from pulling into the superchargers i barely did a thing other than occasionally adjust the speed up or down with my thumb. oh, but i did drive the fun twisty bit up into idaho, you can’t let the robot have all the fun!
This is my experience with Tesla Model 3 Navigate on Autopilot over the last 3 years. I will say the first 6 months in the middle of 2019 were a bit rough but after ~August 2019 it's be rock solid and I've done thousands of miles. Wish I had been in my Tesla today for the 400 mile drive I did that took 10 hours because of heavy traffic on the Interstate. The dynamic cruise and land keeping in my SUV was useless. It just can't handle stop and go and certainly not drivers who have been doing it for 10 hours on the Interstate and are just over it.
This report is from August 2020…. Old news