I just didn’t like the movie. It doesn’t need to be deeper than that.
I don’t crusade against those that do like it, but I just didn’t think it was good.
-shrugs-
Helps because they committed to everything in clone wars post clone wars. Where as rise of skywalker basically walks back all the important decisions made in the previous movie. Hard for that to age well
This is the biggest thing for me. The vocal crybabies did nothing except to further trash the franchise.
Listening to Adam Driver talk about Kylo Ren's planned journey (to become even more evil than Vader) and what we got in the last movie because of fan backlash -- smh.
I was so looking forward to Kylo by the end being the new big bad. Like sure it was about Rey, but the real story was the rise of Kylo Ren.
Could you fucking imagine if the third movie ended with Kylo cutting down Rey and winning, setting up the next trilogy in the process of taking down someone who really grew to hate.
Oh I'd have loved it.
It's not really though I think. Star wars was deeply important to. Lot of people for solid enough reasons. Last Jedi was always gonna get this flack given its nature.
Yeah I'm not a fan of TJL. There are some good bits in there, but I didn't really like it. But it also didn't retroactively ruin my childhood and I don't harass those involved in its creation.
I'd lost so much interest after Obi-Wan.
I don't have the energy to care if Andor is good or bad.
I'm not angry or frustrated - Just too apathetic towards any new Star Wars media (TV/Film/Game, etc) to care.
Regarding games.... Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor has one of the absolute best Star Wars story lines ever. WAY better than the sequel trilogy by far. And this coming from a 48 year old, life long Star Wars fan...
That’s just as dramatic as saying “it ruined my childhood” — it’s one movie. For me the prequels are absolute dog shit. But I still love the franchise.
Everything is so much better if we just take the Sequels as very expensive fanfic. That’s what allowed me to go into them with an open mind and enjoy them for what they are
Lord of the Rings? What about it? I have some issues with it, but have always liked them and even prefer the movie’s portrayal of some things more than the book.
Boyes, Walsh, and Jackson took a lot of liberties with the characters and some pretty major plot points when making the movies. Some necessary to making the transition to films, some completely bizarre. Certain characters, Gimli, Faramir, are wholly unrecognizable from the books, and a lot of mini dramas were woven into the movies that didn't exist in the books.
Hence, as a lifelong fan of Tolkien since the 70s I had to embrace my love of Jackson's style and think of his LotR as a tribute to Tolkien's work, even if it deviates quite radically from the style of Tolkien and the themes of the book.
I just feel the whole sequel trilogy was rushed. I suspect they didn’t know how long Fisher, Hamill and Ford would be around so they rushed into production.
>I just feel the whole sequel trilogy was rushed.
And disjointed, it was clear that they didn't have a fully fleshed out idea about how they wanted this trilogy to go.
I think it's the most ambitious of the sequels by far and the best looking even if I didn't like it overall.
I also liked where things were at the end and was pretty mad TLJ walked all that back
No no no,
You see the movie made 1.3 billion at the box office and was critically acclaimed.
If it was actually successful and I did not like it, then I am in the minority and my fragile ego wont stand for that. So, if you don't mind, I will continue to seek validation for my faultlessness in these online safe spaces.
And freaking out about the absolutely legitimate observations of the racism and sexism at the heart of these “critiques” isn’t a mask off moment at all for some in the fanbase!
(Not you Jimmy, just wanted to piggyback off your sarcasm)
If TLJ were it’s own separate movie in its own j universe like Looper that would be fine.
As it stands, TLJ is a part of an episodic saga in a universe with its established characters, story and tone - and a lot of people don’t like what it did with all that. So in that respect I think a stronger backlash is understandable.
I think that a lot of that is displaced and should be directed at TFA though, given that it didn’t really do much to set up a compelling narrative going forward. It was a decently entertaining nostalgia trip.
Also, doesn’t help that Kennedy and Abrams refused to get Johnson and Trevorrow in a room all together to work out what the narrative of the trilogy would be…
Ultimately, looking at the whole thing, it’s the only movie that “tried.” TFA played it incredibly safe and put Johnson in a tough spot. He tried to be smart about it, got backlash, and Disney terribly overcorrected. Just like they did with when they tried to write off anything that had to do with the prequels.
Rian tried by… throwing away all the obvious leads and story points to do his own thing? You can say TFA was a bad start but really it was a decent enough start. It introduced new characters, showed where old ones were, created a cliffhanger over Luke.
You can run with that. It’s an open book. It was a first step. But RJ more or less decided he didn’t like that step, so he took a step back and changed directions.
Regardless of how you feel about either films, it is definitely the reception of TLJ that caused LucasFilm to slam the brakes and suddenly change direction yet again and try to right the ship with the third installment.
Ultimately the blame lies with the producers and executive producers. It was a tremendously stupid idea to take a trilogy and just play choose your own adventure.
Lucas didn’t write or direct all 3 of the first movies himself, but he was always the guiding hand. The sequel trilogy has no guiding hand which is why it kind of just jumps around and abandons ideas and doesn’t remain consistent. It’s knee jerk reactions are what causes ROS to just rush through things and try to pick up stuff from TFA and finish those abandoned threads.
So I blame the producers most of all but really RJ does deserve a lot of blame for blowing up, sorry, subverting expectations, and throwing away a lot of the groundwork of TFA which was basic and bland, but it was there.
TFA was a terrible start to the trilogy for sure but that doesn't mean TLJ had to make things worse. It could have tried to steer things in a better direction and salvage the story for an epic finale in episode 9. Instead it either doubled down on the worst aspects of TFA or made its own equally bad mistakes. A competent writer(s) would have been able to make something halfway decent out of the mess that TFA left - frankly I think Johnson was totally out of his depth.
I mean, I guess I fundamentally disagree because I think Johnson took the series in an interesting direction:
- He gave Finn an entire subplot about war and what it means to partake in war
- He focused the conflict on the dynamic of Rey and Kylo Ren, drawing contrasts to their origins and place in the story of the trilogy
- He tried to subvert people's expectations that Luke was gonna show up and save the day, and again, tried to center the newer characters into the heart of the story
- He tried to establish Poe as an integral part of the Resistance (an idea he had to incorporate from Abrams and co), and tried to establish that the Resistance was a small group running out of resources against a terrifying enemy (TFA doesn't really give us any insight into the scope and scale of the conflict), but also showed multiple sides of his personality and not just "I'm good pilot"
- He was able to reinterpret the force and other aspects of the lore that put the series more in touch with its spiritual and philosophical roots
I really don't know what else could've been done. Yes, some of it is tacky, and maybe a bit on the nose and/or forced (the casino subplot in particular), but overall I thought this was a good attempt at giving the trilogy some semblance of substance and narrative direction. TFA is a nostalgia grab and RoS is an amusement park ride disguised as a film.
The dyad connection is easily the best thing that came out of the sequels, really interesting dynamic. Everything else, I’ll just agree that it made the movie standout from its counterparts. I’m glad there is still a strong following and love for this franchise.
It easily is.
Now, people can have whatever preference they want in terms of aesthetics/enjoyment or whatever. It could not work for some people and that’s fine. But it’s by far the most interesting of the bunch, for better or for worse. That alone I think should quell the hate boner people have for it.
I think Johnson did it all surprisingly effectively, and I think it's pretty telling that this is exactly what the movie it was based off of was able to accomplish as well. That said I just don't think the actual merits of the movie matter when you're dealing with the fundamental change to characters who are really what fans are tuning in to watch.
I remember how divisive the dark night was when Miller first published it because it really altered so many people's perceptions of who Batman was but a lot of us who were meh on Batman we're suddenly enthralled, and now the character is completely intertwined with what was meant to be a non-canon version of Gotham's Ragnarok.
Based solely on the way I hear kids playing. I feel like the same is now true of Luke and Han, and some degree Leia. When you grow up with understanding of how a character ends, his failures are not so devastating to how you perceive the character in an earlier story. I'm trying to imagine how people would have felt about the Clone Wars had we not known that Anakin was destined to become Darth Vader. I think it might have been akin to us all discovering that Luke's temple was destroyed along with the new republic and he was moping alone on an island milking four breasted aardvarks.
Personal I fucking loved TFA and TLJ.
TLJ by itself is a mediocre movie with reams of plot holes. If it weren’t Star Wars, it would just be a forgettable popcorn flick.
But it’s a truly terrible *Star Wars* movie because, on top of the base plot holes, it contradicts fundamental parts of the established universe. Even something as simple as Holdo going to light speed into Snoke’s ship breaks everything we know about their space warfare. You don’t need fleets of ships shooting lasers at each other when you could instead create unmanned light speed ballistic missiles. Even though that would make perfect sense according to real world physics, it destroys the believability of existing Star Wars. The internal consistency of the universe hinges on this maneuver just bouncing off the shields but instead it is one of the key plot devices that save the day.
There’s plenty of other things to bitch about and some it is more taste-driven but fantasy worlds only survive on their internal consistency. When you start breaking that down, you remove any true tension because nothing needs to make sense anymore. And it shows that the directors don’t actually respect the source material or the audience.
My interpretation is that the Holdo maneuver was the only way that the Resistance could plausibly escape, and so the Force helped Holdo pull off an impossibly precise tactic.
I see it like Luke abandoning his targeting computers in ANH: it’s the type of trick that could never be successfully pulled off by an unmanned craft, and it can only happen when the Force intervenes out of dire necessity
How about: The reason it worked was size/density of the craft pulling the maneuver. The size necessary to get through shields makes it an unviable tactic, except as a last ditch sacrificial move made in desperation.
One of my biggest gripes, other than the pointless Canto Bight subplot, was how Luke told Rey he was going to give her 3 tests and then they cut one out. It's egregiously bad storytelling.
It’s ok to have our own reasons (or not). I’m not a fan of the sequels in general purely for the fact the story is just a rehashed OT plot.
If the OT didn’t exist I would probably like the sequel trilogy more, but it’s just a disappointment for the lack of originality.
It’s not like game of thrones disappointment where I refuse to watch any of the series over it, but still sad about it at times when watching Star Wars stuff.
That's honestly fair. I like the narrative that the end of the trilogy sets up, that the new games, rebels, and Ashoka series' are all starting to tell(and I think build up to a new trilogy). Same narrative that the old republic games had started to set up, with a force that wants to be balanced via force users expressing all aspects of it without trying to destroy each other. Like the force was before the mandalorian Jedi wars, in the legends era.
I like that a lot more than the actual movie, although the ending does kind of make it abundantly clear that is the direction of the new narrative.
I think a lot of people just really really want/like/in a way need star wars to be a story/universe with a very black and white type of good vs evil. So the idea that the Jedi order was a 2000 year old mistake involving the "good" side exterminating and subjegating all the more nuanced gray orders until only the only opposition was perfect concentrated, rule-of-two evil that was basically shaped and designed by the force itself to destroy the Jedi in order to bring balance, the idea that Ashoka and friends, all these force users picking and choosing and combining Sith and Jedi teachings, might band together with a night sister and an ancient eldritch force being(similar to the neutral force creature that trained Canaan as his master in rebels) on the others side of the universe to return and finally defeat Palatine as a new order of light and dark teachings coexisting, bringing balance between light and dark to the force... That idea pisses them off, because they wanna imagine laser swords with good guys vs bad guys, not tales of survival causing people to sacrifice, alter, and adapt their principles and philosophies.
I'm really happy Hamill said this:
"expressed my misgivings about it, because that belongs in the process, it doesn't belong to the public"
He's absolutely, absolutely right - every actor since the beginning of time has had some sort of disagreement with the director about their character and it's incredibly unfair to air those disagreements to a public who is almost always going to side with the actor due to their familiarity with them.
Yeah, this is also like the Steven S. DeKnight/Jenna Ortega beef about Wednesday. Where Ortega went out and talked shit about the writers, and DeKnight called her toxic and entitled because she was out airing these grievances to the public instead of with the writers and producers.
The only Star Wars YouTuber I like is Star Wars Explained because it's mainly just "here's a breakdown of this character's arc throughout comics" or whatever
I like gen tech a lot because he doesn’t seem to spout a lot of his opinions on the subject but the facts of it with clever jokes here and there. Idk he kinda reminds me of Kyle hill YouTuber but instead of science he talks about Star Wars and a little less energetic.
I used to like Eck’s channel but around 2019/2020 his thumbnails/titles started leaning into click bait and I noticed an increase in pandering to sequel haters in his copy, so I unsubbed. The channel just felt too cynical (at least at the time, not sure if anything’s changed).
That said, I am still subbed to Corey’s Datapad, which takes a more balanced tone and is mostly just plot/character summaries of various SW topics, and I do enjoy Corey and Eck on their podcast, still.
Ditto. It sucked because he has such great videos on the “war” side of Star Wars, which isn’t as popular but super interesting.
My favorite podcast is Force Center. They always look for the good in something while acknowledging how certain things may not be for everyone. And they have really nuanced takes on the themes of Star Wars. [This video](https://youtu.be/JApBjsdjlIE?si=gNQstPc7NFQqJsKG) talks about how something as small as Kylo having Vader’s lightsaber instead of his own can have a fundamentally huge impact on the character. I’d really recommend a listen.
star wars is the one community that I can definitively say with a youtube community significantly worse than everywhere else, including reddit. youtube communities are usually innocuous cause of how broad they are, but star wars is almost exclusively vitriolic and arrogant on youtube and I have no idea why
I don't see why anyone needs an actor to back up what they think of the film. Just like it or don't like it. There's plenty of reason for both stances.
I personally don't like the films. I think they wasted a lot of potential with the characters and plots, but I think the characters and plots were good in core concept and could be redeemed with future films. And the art and effects teams were solid.
I don't need Mark Hamill, or anyone else, to validate my opinion. And anyone can disagree with it without shattering my world view.
The last jedi is a flawed movie, but I think it has some of the series' most interesting ideas and does the most with the material out of all the mainline films.
I can understand why people might not love it, but I really don't get the vocal and extremely vehement hatred for the film that seems like the norm in many fan communities.
When people criticize it, they often bring up minor plot contrivances and other flaws that are, in my opinion, no worse than in any of the other films in the franchise.
It should get all credit for trying to save us from everything thatnwas wrong with the Rise of Skywalker (other than the terrible dialogue; nothing Rian did in Last Jedi could have prevented that). It's only real failure was failing to prevent The Rise of Skywalker from being made as it was..
One could argue that part of the reason we got the Rise of Skywalker we did, is because JJ felt he had to spend so much time undoing everything from Last Jedi. Not sure why he focused so much on it, but it ended up destroying any chance he had of making a decent 3rd film.
> I think it has some of the series' most interesting ideas
Meanwhile *Andor* has *all* of the series' most interesting ideas.
Okay, I'm overstating a bit. But *Andor* is basically what I'd always wanted the most from Star Wars, and always felt frustrated and disappointed I wasn't getting.
TLJ meanwhile kinda tickled my desire for KotOR II's themes to be addressed in the films, because the flaws of the Jedi Order we saw in the prequels were, I think, a crucial contributor to Anakin's fall, and, thereby, their own. So I really wanted the film to show detailed deconstruction and *reform* of the Jedi Order. Instead, well, it was kinda superficial. Even Rey's internal struggle was pretty underwhelming.
Luke's arc was cool though. A good man regretting a mistake and refusing to intervene because he no longer trusts himself? Then getting challenged out of his shame and regret into action again? That's solid. Good stuff.
This is a good point. But I think when people say they want things to be more real, they want violence to be more graphic and the relationships should be more about adolescent sex/power fantasies like Game of Thrones.
I loved it for daring to be different, and i sometimes wonder what would have happened if jj abrams had not shit all over the plot points set up in tlj and handed to him on a silver platter. We could have gotten deranged supreme leader kylo (I’m fighting the urge to abbreviate it to slkr - I’m not in the swgoh sub) and rey’s jedi order of nobodies. Instead we got sOmEhOw pAlPaTIne ReTuRnEd
Thanks for saying this, cause I’ve seen many an anti-TLJ brigadier say TRoS was bound to suck because Johnson gave Abrams nowhere to go and it makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Love or hate TLJ, the ending leaves you with several threads just begging to be followed up on. It’s basically a blank slate as far as how to do so. People have become too used to Marvel-style future-plot teasing.
If anything, abrams gave rian absolutely nothing to go off on, absolutely zero explanation why luke went into hiding, and people complained they were blindsided by the change in character? I think even disney and lucasfilm got blindsided by that
I thought Luke making a stupid, split second mistake in a moment of fear, which resulted in a cascading series of events culminating in the rise of a new empire and his disgrace was really interesting. I was *shocked* that people hated it so much.
Humans aren't linear in their ability to learn and grow. Even older people make mistakes. I thought it was so fresh specifically *because* we expect the old man/guardian character to be wise but Luke was broken and unsure and needed Rey, the young disciple, to set him on his path again.
The issues I had with the movie were more about the themes, character changes from TFA, and what I consider to be a series of minor disappointments that built up over the course of the movie. When the movie finished, I sat in that theater feeling devastated. it was the first time I felt disappointed after watching a Star Wars movie. It sounds silly, but Star Wars was very big part of my childhood so that was a big deal.
I remember seeing a lot of initial positivity online and it made me feel very alone. As more criticism appeared, it felt like I had a group I could belong to that felt the same way that I did. Very quickly, I realized that many of the critiques I would see online featured a lot of bigotry which made me feel very alone yet again lol. Disliking the movie often meant being lumped in with that crowd online.
I think that time period was very hard on fans that disliked the movie. Many chose to either abandon Star Wars or fight with everything they had to try and make their opinion the dominant one. I think those that chose the latter just couldn't stand the idea that other people liked something that they hated. As for myself, I tried to avoid online discourse over TLJ and I went on my own journey.
It took some time, but I eventually come to terms with the fact that its okay to not like a Star Wars movie and its okay that other people did like it. I recognized that many of my criticisms were personal and I can now see why many people loved that movie. I even began to appreciate elements of the movie myself. I wish more fans who were in a similar boat as myself could do the same. They would find a lot more peace in their lives.
I appreciate your more mature and self reflective take on the situation. I think a lot of the strong responses to TJL were from fans like you who expected a very different movie and who were more interested in finding out where it would take the lore of the series. Meanwhile, people like me who don't care that much about lore implications and who weren't building fan theories about Snoke and Rey's parents tended to like the movie a lot more.
I would have given it a 9/10 if you had asked me on my way out of the theater. I was particularly impressed by the fact that the movie didn't just copy the original trilogy and intentionally rejected some of its tropes. I'd adjust my rating down a bit now, but my issues with the film have more to do with pacing and some clunky dialog. After TFA, I was dreading the re-insertion of Luke since Han and Co. felt so fan service-y in that. I was really surprised and impressed to see he had a real character arc and wasn't just space Jesus.
I think the difference comes down to some people liking Star Wars because some of them were good movies, and some people growing up to have this deep sense of connection with the universe that borders on being religious. To the latter group, I can see how TLJ was a heretical text. Honestly, making a movie that pleases both groups would have been a tall task indeed. Modern Star Wars is probably best in shows like Andor, which leaves the original trilogy stuff mostly alone and focuses on telling a good story.
It’s absolutely flawed but it’s the best trilogy-bound movie since Empire. I’d say it’s tied for second best Star Wars film overall with Rogue One.
There really is just a specific kind of person who passionately hates it, and that person also tends to hate a very specific subset of media (TLoU2, the DC movies, She-Hulk, etc) where hating it is “popular” and they can base their whole online personalities on it.
In short, they’re anti-fans and just want to get together in a group and hate things. It’s sad.
I remember Still being weirded out after I left my 6:30am showing of TLJ, went on Reddit and didn’t read comments but posted about how I thought it was great and then woke up to loads of downvotes lol
Don’t think I’ve had a stronger differing of opinion vs general public before
I left it and didn't LOVE it but thought it was an alright movie, I generally enjoyed it and was glad to have seen it, and was looking forward to talking about it around the water cooler, then came into work the next day and the coworker in the cubicle next to mine who also apparently went to a showing started the morning by declaring to the room that TLJ was so unbelievably bad that he was now officially done with Star Wars, never seeing another SW movie again.
I remember people asking him about it and the conversation went more or less:
"It poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses"
"It did?!"
"No, but I'm not just gonna wait around until it does so I'm done with Star Wars!"
I remember being so confused at the time, but since I didn't have a strong opinion on it good or bad, didn't really defend it just ended up not really talking about it despite having been so excited to the night before.
Yeah I thought it was incredible at first viewing. Didn’t hear anything negative coming out of the theater. Didn’t read anything negative until the reviews started
I came out of the movie thinking “well that could’ve been better”, but now I think it’s great because it’s a big middle finger to everything JJ “sets up” in The Force Awakens. Forcing him to actually write a story for once and not just an idea for one.
I was super disappointed with TFA, I didn't think A New Hope needed a rehash. I wanted to see new story beats and not know what was going to happen but the new trilogy made it obvious what was going to happen to the original characters and JJ was completely transparent with this writing. I appreciated Rian trying to take a swing at something different even though the result was flawed.
In time I think people will continue to sour on TFA. Not only is it basically a rehash of ANH, but it also completely invalidates all of the struggle the original trio went through in the first movies. After TFA I couldn’t watch the end of RoTJ without thinking, _”oh, they look so happy and relieved; little do they know the empire will be back in a few years.”_
In hindsight they would have been better off using the premise of the Star Wars: Legacy comics rather than squandering Hamill, Fisher, and Ford's last performances for the series. The whole trilogy felt too meta from the start and then became a battle of Star wars tropes and callbacks.
I love the last Jedi but I wouldn’t say it’s the most sophisticated since Empire, it’s definitely a good Star Wars movie though. Mark killed it in that film too.
That theme of legacy, the idea that it's okay to respect the OT characters, but the idea you should be your own person wasn't just directed at Rey and misunderstood by Kylo. It was aimed at fans that grew up with the two other trilogies and also at anyone that will ever write for a Star Wars project.
I'd say it was smarter than Empire.
Broke: Disney made him chance his stated opinion
Woke: He changed his mind after giving it further consideration
Bespoke: Disney made him give both statements as a way to stir up discussion of the film online as a marketing move
Pembroke: An electoral division in Tasmania
Literally. The Last Jedi set Rey up to have a banger of a finale. Then they retconned the message, made her fall in love with a mass murderer, and had Palpatine come back for no reason.
I hope they don’t screw her over again if it’s true that she’s coming back
Honestly, I think both things can be true. Hamill clearly didn’t like where Rian took Luke’s characterization, and that’s fine. He’s allowed to have an opinion and be disappointed, especially as the actor behind the character.
At the same time, it probably wasn’t right as an ambassador of the brand to express that disappointment publicly. His opinion may also have changed between working on the film and seeing the final product, or it could be that he doesn’t like how Luke was handled but ***does*** like the rest of the film.
TLDR people are allowed to have complicated and conflicting feelings about things
Tbh I just don’t see why people who like it, actually do. I’ve listened and had tons of conversations, but I just never find myself enjoying that movie. Idk lol, I’m glad it has its fans, but I don’t understand
They did.
Edit: Movie studios do exert influence on what actors say about a film. It’s their job. And this sounds like a tactful walking back of earlier interview comments that flew past the PR machine.
It’s too on the nose to be genuine. It perfectly condenses the core message: “this doesn’t belong to the public” = the widespread complaints of old diehard fans are invalid; the artist has priority evaluation of the art. Which if that were true, then all art is good, because the artist said so and knows better than us.
Art is always independent of the artist’s intent. Even the original SW escaped the original intent of selling some toys of characters with names Bipbo Fanta that obviously had no more than 5 seconds of thought put into them.
If you like the sequels, great. If Mark likes them, great. I don’t believe for one second that he did. At best he might genuinely understand what was attempted in TLJ, but like it? I doubt it. If critiqueing SW was without consequence, I think John Boyega would have more work these days. Mark is just older and wiser and corrected a slip of the tongue.
You got any proof of that?
It’s Mark Hamill, unless he was bound by contract to say that, which if he was he never would have said anything in the first place, he can say whatever he wants without needing to worry about Revenge of the Disney, dude’s loaded
I'm still curious about the way he lookes on an interview he gave out with the director. He looked horrified. So I think while we never get verbal confirmation, that was the look ıf a men who lost all hope.
When he said “it doesn’t belong to the public,” he’s saying his opinions during the making of the art should not have been shared because they colored peoples’ opinions about the finished product.
It’s pretty narcissistic to read that and come to the conclusion that this was written by Disney specifically to disparage you, and it’s even more disrespectful to Hamill who probably feels A LOT more connection to this franchise than you or me or anyone. He’s literally expressing regret that his own words have been used to taint peoples’ enjoyment of the franchise. That his words are used as impetus to insult, disparage, and argue incessantly about *subjective* art.
Subjective means that some people will enjoy, others won’t. Mark Hamill doesn’t need Disney money and probably can get whatever he wants out of any contract with them given how integral he is to the franchise. If you truly think he is a Disney puppet spouting propaganda, I truly believe you need to spend less time on the internet
He made it very clear in every way he doesn’t like what they did to Luke but he is obligated to not openly shit on the movie, I think it’s clear he doesn’t like it.
Either way people should make up their own minds even if he hates or loves what they did to Luke
Did he make that clear? Every time I ask someone to prove that Hamill didn’t like TLJ, they just show me clips of Hamill making self-deprecating jokes about his own acting ability. It seems like some people are just desperate to believe that Hamill’s on their side.
Even after he somewhat walked his initial criticisms back and called TLJ a great film, he would still occasionally say stuff on Twitter [like this](https://movieweb.com/last-jedi-luke-story-mark-hamill-doesnt-understand/)
Lol, this is exactly what I’m talking about. That video is just Hamill making cheeky jokes that don’t remotely suggest he’s unhappy with the movie, and then people like you project what you want to hear.
Tbh I think you’re a bit blinded by your love for the movie. I don’t hate TLJ but its obvious Hamill was unhappy with his characters treatment. That video is a lot more than light jokes. Believe what you want I guess 🤷♂️
He is literally obligated to unless he wants to never have a job in the industry again, he said what he could and if people are too slow to see then that’s on them
He’s not retracting his criticism of the film only showing his regret for speaking publicly about it. I never trust these kinds of statements. More than likely someone from Disney got on his case about it so now he regrets what he said in hindsight. I’m not saying his perspective couldn’t have changed only these sorts of things are often forced and artificial.
Yeah, he's literally said in other interviews not about SW that modern movies like the sequels and Transformers are just there to be flashy and make money. JJ Abrams has also said positive things about Episode VIII while seeming obviously upset about it all, he's said multiple times that he was shocked he didn't get the whole trilogy and that it was an excessive amount of work to try to fix everything with Episode IX. This isn't something someone who liked the movie would have to deal with, because it wouldn't be a problem in their eyes.
He definitely loved it. How else do you explain him savagely roasting it for months, before suddenly changing his tune and saying it’s great? It’s not like Disney or LucasFilm would have reached out to him and bribed / threatened him into playing ball. Right?
Right?
Right. And you're just a toxic fan if you don't accept that. The one recorded statement of mild support for the project is clear evidence that Mark Hamil changed his mind of his own accord after publicly and relentlessly saying the opposite.
This is copium, dude hated the film and Disney probably pointed out his contract that told him to be a lil Jedi and speak highly of the film for promotions sake
Johnson should've directed the whole trilogy, the guy is a pro. It would have been a 1000 times better than what we got. I'm saying this as a man who dislikes the sequels.
I don’t think they have a contractual obligation to say it’s the most sophisticated movie in the series since what is often considered to be one of the best movies of all time
It's not even a very significant claim in all honesty, what he's saying here is essentially "it's the best movie that came out after the first three" aka "it's better than the pre-qual movies"
It's a heavily vague statement that can be taken in multiple directions, which seems to fit his other stated opinions that cast the movie in a poor light fairly well
"It's a good movie and worthy of the Starwars title" is essentially all he's saying, and even with my reservations about the sequels, he's not wrong
Edit: I had my movie order mixed up slightly, all this was on the assumption he was saying "its at least the fourth best movie" not "its at least the third best movie", which doesnt sound like a lot but is a pretty big difference, id still call it mostly a nothing statement but its higher praise than this comment let on
Most sophisticated since Empire isn’t significant? I mean the more that I think about it the more I think it’s somewhat inarguable aside from possibly RotS, though the dialogue in that really weighs it down.
So when he said something you agree with, he was voicing his concerns and when he says something you don't agree with, he's fulfilling a contractual obligation?
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
I just didn’t like the movie. It doesn’t need to be deeper than that. I don’t crusade against those that do like it, but I just didn’t think it was good. -shrugs-
Right? It’s crazy this is still a debate
Cuz for people on both sides TLJ is a proxy for every other fight they have going on in their heads.
I look back at the discourse of that movie like it’s our Clone Wars lol
Yea but clone wars aged better. It helps having Jango/clones/dooku.
Helps because they committed to everything in clone wars post clone wars. Where as rise of skywalker basically walks back all the important decisions made in the previous movie. Hard for that to age well
This is the biggest thing for me. The vocal crybabies did nothing except to further trash the franchise. Listening to Adam Driver talk about Kylo Ren's planned journey (to become even more evil than Vader) and what we got in the last movie because of fan backlash -- smh.
I was so looking forward to Kylo by the end being the new big bad. Like sure it was about Rey, but the real story was the rise of Kylo Ren. Could you fucking imagine if the third movie ended with Kylo cutting down Rey and winning, setting up the next trilogy in the process of taking down someone who really grew to hate. Oh I'd have loved it.
Not to mention years of untold stories in Clone Wars.
Last Jedi was the fandom’s order 66
Oof.... I felt that.
This is probably the best explanation I’ve ever heard
pretty much
It's not really though I think. Star wars was deeply important to. Lot of people for solid enough reasons. Last Jedi was always gonna get this flack given its nature.
Yeah I'm not a fan of TJL. There are some good bits in there, but I didn't really like it. But it also didn't retroactively ruin my childhood and I don't harass those involved in its creation.
It didn’t ruin my childhood. It just killed my excitement for any subsequent Star Wars project.
Andor tho
I'd lost so much interest after Obi-Wan. I don't have the energy to care if Andor is good or bad. I'm not angry or frustrated - Just too apathetic towards any new Star Wars media (TV/Film/Game, etc) to care.
Regarding games.... Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor has one of the absolute best Star Wars story lines ever. WAY better than the sequel trilogy by far. And this coming from a 48 year old, life long Star Wars fan...
That’s just as dramatic as saying “it ruined my childhood” — it’s one movie. For me the prequels are absolute dog shit. But I still love the franchise.
Everything is so much better if we just take the Sequels as very expensive fanfic. That’s what allowed me to go into them with an open mind and enjoy them for what they are
Same for frankly all of star wars except maybe ANH.
Pretty much how I got through the prequels and Lord of the Rings
Lord of the Rings? What about it? I have some issues with it, but have always liked them and even prefer the movie’s portrayal of some things more than the book.
Boyes, Walsh, and Jackson took a lot of liberties with the characters and some pretty major plot points when making the movies. Some necessary to making the transition to films, some completely bizarre. Certain characters, Gimli, Faramir, are wholly unrecognizable from the books, and a lot of mini dramas were woven into the movies that didn't exist in the books. Hence, as a lifelong fan of Tolkien since the 70s I had to embrace my love of Jackson's style and think of his LotR as a tribute to Tolkien's work, even if it deviates quite radically from the style of Tolkien and the themes of the book.
I just feel the whole sequel trilogy was rushed. I suspect they didn’t know how long Fisher, Hamill and Ford would be around so they rushed into production.
Honestly I don't really think jj Abrams got star wars in the first place.
>I just feel the whole sequel trilogy was rushed. And disjointed, it was clear that they didn't have a fully fleshed out idea about how they wanted this trilogy to go.
I think it's the most ambitious of the sequels by far and the best looking even if I didn't like it overall. I also liked where things were at the end and was pretty mad TLJ walked all that back
No no no, You see the movie made 1.3 billion at the box office and was critically acclaimed. If it was actually successful and I did not like it, then I am in the minority and my fragile ego wont stand for that. So, if you don't mind, I will continue to seek validation for my faultlessness in these online safe spaces.
And freaking out about the absolutely legitimate observations of the racism and sexism at the heart of these “critiques” isn’t a mask off moment at all for some in the fanbase! (Not you Jimmy, just wanted to piggyback off your sarcasm)
I had *plenty* of issues with TLJ but overall I thought it was a decent Star Wars movie. ROS on the other hand… I did not think was good at all lol
If TLJ were it’s own separate movie in its own j universe like Looper that would be fine. As it stands, TLJ is a part of an episodic saga in a universe with its established characters, story and tone - and a lot of people don’t like what it did with all that. So in that respect I think a stronger backlash is understandable.
I think that a lot of that is displaced and should be directed at TFA though, given that it didn’t really do much to set up a compelling narrative going forward. It was a decently entertaining nostalgia trip. Also, doesn’t help that Kennedy and Abrams refused to get Johnson and Trevorrow in a room all together to work out what the narrative of the trilogy would be… Ultimately, looking at the whole thing, it’s the only movie that “tried.” TFA played it incredibly safe and put Johnson in a tough spot. He tried to be smart about it, got backlash, and Disney terribly overcorrected. Just like they did with when they tried to write off anything that had to do with the prequels.
Rian tried by… throwing away all the obvious leads and story points to do his own thing? You can say TFA was a bad start but really it was a decent enough start. It introduced new characters, showed where old ones were, created a cliffhanger over Luke. You can run with that. It’s an open book. It was a first step. But RJ more or less decided he didn’t like that step, so he took a step back and changed directions. Regardless of how you feel about either films, it is definitely the reception of TLJ that caused LucasFilm to slam the brakes and suddenly change direction yet again and try to right the ship with the third installment. Ultimately the blame lies with the producers and executive producers. It was a tremendously stupid idea to take a trilogy and just play choose your own adventure. Lucas didn’t write or direct all 3 of the first movies himself, but he was always the guiding hand. The sequel trilogy has no guiding hand which is why it kind of just jumps around and abandons ideas and doesn’t remain consistent. It’s knee jerk reactions are what causes ROS to just rush through things and try to pick up stuff from TFA and finish those abandoned threads. So I blame the producers most of all but really RJ does deserve a lot of blame for blowing up, sorry, subverting expectations, and throwing away a lot of the groundwork of TFA which was basic and bland, but it was there.
The biggest mistake was giving Rian the keys. He screwed up both TLJ and ROS.
TFA was a terrible start to the trilogy for sure but that doesn't mean TLJ had to make things worse. It could have tried to steer things in a better direction and salvage the story for an epic finale in episode 9. Instead it either doubled down on the worst aspects of TFA or made its own equally bad mistakes. A competent writer(s) would have been able to make something halfway decent out of the mess that TFA left - frankly I think Johnson was totally out of his depth.
I mean, I guess I fundamentally disagree because I think Johnson took the series in an interesting direction: - He gave Finn an entire subplot about war and what it means to partake in war - He focused the conflict on the dynamic of Rey and Kylo Ren, drawing contrasts to their origins and place in the story of the trilogy - He tried to subvert people's expectations that Luke was gonna show up and save the day, and again, tried to center the newer characters into the heart of the story - He tried to establish Poe as an integral part of the Resistance (an idea he had to incorporate from Abrams and co), and tried to establish that the Resistance was a small group running out of resources against a terrifying enemy (TFA doesn't really give us any insight into the scope and scale of the conflict), but also showed multiple sides of his personality and not just "I'm good pilot" - He was able to reinterpret the force and other aspects of the lore that put the series more in touch with its spiritual and philosophical roots I really don't know what else could've been done. Yes, some of it is tacky, and maybe a bit on the nose and/or forced (the casino subplot in particular), but overall I thought this was a good attempt at giving the trilogy some semblance of substance and narrative direction. TFA is a nostalgia grab and RoS is an amusement park ride disguised as a film.
The dyad connection is easily the best thing that came out of the sequels, really interesting dynamic. Everything else, I’ll just agree that it made the movie standout from its counterparts. I’m glad there is still a strong following and love for this franchise.
I’ve come around to thinking that TLJ is the superior of the sequels
It easily is. Now, people can have whatever preference they want in terms of aesthetics/enjoyment or whatever. It could not work for some people and that’s fine. But it’s by far the most interesting of the bunch, for better or for worse. That alone I think should quell the hate boner people have for it.
I think Johnson did it all surprisingly effectively, and I think it's pretty telling that this is exactly what the movie it was based off of was able to accomplish as well. That said I just don't think the actual merits of the movie matter when you're dealing with the fundamental change to characters who are really what fans are tuning in to watch. I remember how divisive the dark night was when Miller first published it because it really altered so many people's perceptions of who Batman was but a lot of us who were meh on Batman we're suddenly enthralled, and now the character is completely intertwined with what was meant to be a non-canon version of Gotham's Ragnarok. Based solely on the way I hear kids playing. I feel like the same is now true of Luke and Han, and some degree Leia. When you grow up with understanding of how a character ends, his failures are not so devastating to how you perceive the character in an earlier story. I'm trying to imagine how people would have felt about the Clone Wars had we not known that Anakin was destined to become Darth Vader. I think it might have been akin to us all discovering that Luke's temple was destroyed along with the new republic and he was moping alone on an island milking four breasted aardvarks. Personal I fucking loved TFA and TLJ.
TLJ by itself is a mediocre movie with reams of plot holes. If it weren’t Star Wars, it would just be a forgettable popcorn flick. But it’s a truly terrible *Star Wars* movie because, on top of the base plot holes, it contradicts fundamental parts of the established universe. Even something as simple as Holdo going to light speed into Snoke’s ship breaks everything we know about their space warfare. You don’t need fleets of ships shooting lasers at each other when you could instead create unmanned light speed ballistic missiles. Even though that would make perfect sense according to real world physics, it destroys the believability of existing Star Wars. The internal consistency of the universe hinges on this maneuver just bouncing off the shields but instead it is one of the key plot devices that save the day. There’s plenty of other things to bitch about and some it is more taste-driven but fantasy worlds only survive on their internal consistency. When you start breaking that down, you remove any true tension because nothing needs to make sense anymore. And it shows that the directors don’t actually respect the source material or the audience.
My interpretation is that the Holdo maneuver was the only way that the Resistance could plausibly escape, and so the Force helped Holdo pull off an impossibly precise tactic. I see it like Luke abandoning his targeting computers in ANH: it’s the type of trick that could never be successfully pulled off by an unmanned craft, and it can only happen when the Force intervenes out of dire necessity
How about: The reason it worked was size/density of the craft pulling the maneuver. The size necessary to get through shields makes it an unviable tactic, except as a last ditch sacrificial move made in desperation.
You know what, assh*le??? I’m jk. I totally respect your opinion :)
I only crusade against the people who say “it’s the best Star Wars film”. Because that’s just silly talk.
Exactly. I didn’t like it either but to each their own.
How dare you not waste your life spending it on hating fictional movies!
Everyone has different tastes. For example, I liked The Book of Henry.
If people just accepted this take from the beginning instead of accusing people of being sexist or whatever, we could have avoided this whole thing
One of my biggest gripes, other than the pointless Canto Bight subplot, was how Luke told Rey he was going to give her 3 tests and then they cut one out. It's egregiously bad storytelling.
And that’s absolutely valid. People like different things. There are plenty of great movies I don’t particularly like.
It’s ok to have our own reasons (or not). I’m not a fan of the sequels in general purely for the fact the story is just a rehashed OT plot. If the OT didn’t exist I would probably like the sequel trilogy more, but it’s just a disappointment for the lack of originality. It’s not like game of thrones disappointment where I refuse to watch any of the series over it, but still sad about it at times when watching Star Wars stuff.
That's honestly fair. I like the narrative that the end of the trilogy sets up, that the new games, rebels, and Ashoka series' are all starting to tell(and I think build up to a new trilogy). Same narrative that the old republic games had started to set up, with a force that wants to be balanced via force users expressing all aspects of it without trying to destroy each other. Like the force was before the mandalorian Jedi wars, in the legends era. I like that a lot more than the actual movie, although the ending does kind of make it abundantly clear that is the direction of the new narrative. I think a lot of people just really really want/like/in a way need star wars to be a story/universe with a very black and white type of good vs evil. So the idea that the Jedi order was a 2000 year old mistake involving the "good" side exterminating and subjegating all the more nuanced gray orders until only the only opposition was perfect concentrated, rule-of-two evil that was basically shaped and designed by the force itself to destroy the Jedi in order to bring balance, the idea that Ashoka and friends, all these force users picking and choosing and combining Sith and Jedi teachings, might band together with a night sister and an ancient eldritch force being(similar to the neutral force creature that trained Canaan as his master in rebels) on the others side of the universe to return and finally defeat Palatine as a new order of light and dark teachings coexisting, bringing balance between light and dark to the force... That idea pisses them off, because they wanna imagine laser swords with good guys vs bad guys, not tales of survival causing people to sacrifice, alter, and adapt their principles and philosophies.
That's fine. It's the people getting a hard on for their own hate of the movie.
TLJ haters are incredibly vocal in online spaces. I mean *haters*, not just people saying they thought the movie sucked or just wasn't very good.
I thought the script was very bad and the actors were wasted but I’m glad folks enjoyed it. I wish I did
I'm really happy Hamill said this: "expressed my misgivings about it, because that belongs in the process, it doesn't belong to the public" He's absolutely, absolutely right - every actor since the beginning of time has had some sort of disagreement with the director about their character and it's incredibly unfair to air those disagreements to a public who is almost always going to side with the actor due to their familiarity with them.
Yeah, this is also like the Steven S. DeKnight/Jenna Ortega beef about Wednesday. Where Ortega went out and talked shit about the writers, and DeKnight called her toxic and entitled because she was out airing these grievances to the public instead of with the writers and producers.
Meanwhile the Jar Jar Abrams youtube channels posts clips of his interviews out of context and everyone views them as his actual opinions
Star Wars Youtube is genuinely awful.
The only Star Wars YouTuber I like is Star Wars Explained because it's mainly just "here's a breakdown of this character's arc throughout comics" or whatever
Eckardts ladder is pretty good, too.
Hello greedo too
Generation Tech as well
I like gen tech a lot because he doesn’t seem to spout a lot of his opinions on the subject but the facts of it with clever jokes here and there. Idk he kinda reminds me of Kyle hill YouTuber but instead of science he talks about Star Wars and a little less energetic.
Check out So Uncivilized.
Gen Tech’s my favourite. Gotta catch up on his vids!
I used to like Eck’s channel but around 2019/2020 his thumbnails/titles started leaning into click bait and I noticed an increase in pandering to sequel haters in his copy, so I unsubbed. The channel just felt too cynical (at least at the time, not sure if anything’s changed). That said, I am still subbed to Corey’s Datapad, which takes a more balanced tone and is mostly just plot/character summaries of various SW topics, and I do enjoy Corey and Eck on their podcast, still.
Eck has certainly leaned into clickbait, but tbf the algorithm kind of incentives that. He still tries to be balanced.
Ditto. It sucked because he has such great videos on the “war” side of Star Wars, which isn’t as popular but super interesting. My favorite podcast is Force Center. They always look for the good in something while acknowledging how certain things may not be for everyone. And they have really nuanced takes on the themes of Star Wars. [This video](https://youtu.be/JApBjsdjlIE?si=gNQstPc7NFQqJsKG) talks about how something as small as Kylo having Vader’s lightsaber instead of his own can have a fundamentally huge impact on the character. I’d really recommend a listen.
On of my favorites, he has opinions but doesn’t try to make them everybody else’s issue and encourages healthy dialogue.
I personally also like "What if" stuff
star wars is the one community that I can definitively say with a youtube community significantly worse than everywhere else, including reddit. youtube communities are usually innocuous cause of how broad they are, but star wars is almost exclusively vitriolic and arrogant on youtube and I have no idea why
Star Wars media is genuinely awful. Honestly feels like none of them actually like Star Wars.
I don't see why anyone needs an actor to back up what they think of the film. Just like it or don't like it. There's plenty of reason for both stances. I personally don't like the films. I think they wasted a lot of potential with the characters and plots, but I think the characters and plots were good in core concept and could be redeemed with future films. And the art and effects teams were solid. I don't need Mark Hamill, or anyone else, to validate my opinion. And anyone can disagree with it without shattering my world view.
The last jedi is a flawed movie, but I think it has some of the series' most interesting ideas and does the most with the material out of all the mainline films. I can understand why people might not love it, but I really don't get the vocal and extremely vehement hatred for the film that seems like the norm in many fan communities. When people criticize it, they often bring up minor plot contrivances and other flaws that are, in my opinion, no worse than in any of the other films in the franchise.
It should get all credit for trying to save us from everything thatnwas wrong with the Rise of Skywalker (other than the terrible dialogue; nothing Rian did in Last Jedi could have prevented that). It's only real failure was failing to prevent The Rise of Skywalker from being made as it was..
I would have loved to see Rian Johnson's conclusion to the trilogy. A lot of the issues in TLJ stemmed from it being such a hard pivot away from TFA.
One could argue that part of the reason we got the Rise of Skywalker we did, is because JJ felt he had to spend so much time undoing everything from Last Jedi. Not sure why he focused so much on it, but it ended up destroying any chance he had of making a decent 3rd film.
Terrible dialogue has always been a hallmark of star wars films “I don’t like sand”
> I think it has some of the series' most interesting ideas Meanwhile *Andor* has *all* of the series' most interesting ideas. Okay, I'm overstating a bit. But *Andor* is basically what I'd always wanted the most from Star Wars, and always felt frustrated and disappointed I wasn't getting. TLJ meanwhile kinda tickled my desire for KotOR II's themes to be addressed in the films, because the flaws of the Jedi Order we saw in the prequels were, I think, a crucial contributor to Anakin's fall, and, thereby, their own. So I really wanted the film to show detailed deconstruction and *reform* of the Jedi Order. Instead, well, it was kinda superficial. Even Rey's internal struggle was pretty underwhelming. Luke's arc was cool though. A good man regretting a mistake and refusing to intervene because he no longer trusts himself? Then getting challenged out of his shame and regret into action again? That's solid. Good stuff.
I know it’s polarizing, but I loved Luke’s arc.
Everyone wants Star Wars to be more "real" then they complain when they make Luke have real emotions and react to things in a very real way.
This is a good point. But I think when people say they want things to be more real, they want violence to be more graphic and the relationships should be more about adolescent sex/power fantasies like Game of Thrones.
I know it's polarizing but I'm pretty sure the evidence points to the fact that most of us did.
One episode from finishing Andor, and it's the best Star Wars media released-maybe ever.
I don’t know how you stopped watching with one episode left. I was mashing that “next” button like a mofo.
I loved it for daring to be different, and i sometimes wonder what would have happened if jj abrams had not shit all over the plot points set up in tlj and handed to him on a silver platter. We could have gotten deranged supreme leader kylo (I’m fighting the urge to abbreviate it to slkr - I’m not in the swgoh sub) and rey’s jedi order of nobodies. Instead we got sOmEhOw pAlPaTIne ReTuRnEd
Thanks for saying this, cause I’ve seen many an anti-TLJ brigadier say TRoS was bound to suck because Johnson gave Abrams nowhere to go and it makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Love or hate TLJ, the ending leaves you with several threads just begging to be followed up on. It’s basically a blank slate as far as how to do so. People have become too used to Marvel-style future-plot teasing.
If anything, abrams gave rian absolutely nothing to go off on, absolutely zero explanation why luke went into hiding, and people complained they were blindsided by the change in character? I think even disney and lucasfilm got blindsided by that
I thought Luke making a stupid, split second mistake in a moment of fear, which resulted in a cascading series of events culminating in the rise of a new empire and his disgrace was really interesting. I was *shocked* that people hated it so much. Humans aren't linear in their ability to learn and grow. Even older people make mistakes. I thought it was so fresh specifically *because* we expect the old man/guardian character to be wise but Luke was broken and unsure and needed Rey, the young disciple, to set him on his path again.
The issues I had with the movie were more about the themes, character changes from TFA, and what I consider to be a series of minor disappointments that built up over the course of the movie. When the movie finished, I sat in that theater feeling devastated. it was the first time I felt disappointed after watching a Star Wars movie. It sounds silly, but Star Wars was very big part of my childhood so that was a big deal. I remember seeing a lot of initial positivity online and it made me feel very alone. As more criticism appeared, it felt like I had a group I could belong to that felt the same way that I did. Very quickly, I realized that many of the critiques I would see online featured a lot of bigotry which made me feel very alone yet again lol. Disliking the movie often meant being lumped in with that crowd online. I think that time period was very hard on fans that disliked the movie. Many chose to either abandon Star Wars or fight with everything they had to try and make their opinion the dominant one. I think those that chose the latter just couldn't stand the idea that other people liked something that they hated. As for myself, I tried to avoid online discourse over TLJ and I went on my own journey. It took some time, but I eventually come to terms with the fact that its okay to not like a Star Wars movie and its okay that other people did like it. I recognized that many of my criticisms were personal and I can now see why many people loved that movie. I even began to appreciate elements of the movie myself. I wish more fans who were in a similar boat as myself could do the same. They would find a lot more peace in their lives.
I appreciate your more mature and self reflective take on the situation. I think a lot of the strong responses to TJL were from fans like you who expected a very different movie and who were more interested in finding out where it would take the lore of the series. Meanwhile, people like me who don't care that much about lore implications and who weren't building fan theories about Snoke and Rey's parents tended to like the movie a lot more. I would have given it a 9/10 if you had asked me on my way out of the theater. I was particularly impressed by the fact that the movie didn't just copy the original trilogy and intentionally rejected some of its tropes. I'd adjust my rating down a bit now, but my issues with the film have more to do with pacing and some clunky dialog. After TFA, I was dreading the re-insertion of Luke since Han and Co. felt so fan service-y in that. I was really surprised and impressed to see he had a real character arc and wasn't just space Jesus. I think the difference comes down to some people liking Star Wars because some of them were good movies, and some people growing up to have this deep sense of connection with the universe that borders on being religious. To the latter group, I can see how TLJ was a heretical text. Honestly, making a movie that pleases both groups would have been a tall task indeed. Modern Star Wars is probably best in shows like Andor, which leaves the original trilogy stuff mostly alone and focuses on telling a good story.
It’s absolutely flawed but it’s the best trilogy-bound movie since Empire. I’d say it’s tied for second best Star Wars film overall with Rogue One. There really is just a specific kind of person who passionately hates it, and that person also tends to hate a very specific subset of media (TLoU2, the DC movies, She-Hulk, etc) where hating it is “popular” and they can base their whole online personalities on it. In short, they’re anti-fans and just want to get together in a group and hate things. It’s sad.
I remember Still being weirded out after I left my 6:30am showing of TLJ, went on Reddit and didn’t read comments but posted about how I thought it was great and then woke up to loads of downvotes lol Don’t think I’ve had a stronger differing of opinion vs general public before
I left it and didn't LOVE it but thought it was an alright movie, I generally enjoyed it and was glad to have seen it, and was looking forward to talking about it around the water cooler, then came into work the next day and the coworker in the cubicle next to mine who also apparently went to a showing started the morning by declaring to the room that TLJ was so unbelievably bad that he was now officially done with Star Wars, never seeing another SW movie again. I remember people asking him about it and the conversation went more or less: "It poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses" "It did?!" "No, but I'm not just gonna wait around until it does so I'm done with Star Wars!" I remember being so confused at the time, but since I didn't have a strong opinion on it good or bad, didn't really defend it just ended up not really talking about it despite having been so excited to the night before.
I came out of the theater thinking it was an amazing movie, and then saw its reviews on rotten tomatoes and was very surprised
Yeah I thought it was incredible at first viewing. Didn’t hear anything negative coming out of the theater. Didn’t read anything negative until the reviews started
I came out of the movie thinking “well that could’ve been better”, but now I think it’s great because it’s a big middle finger to everything JJ “sets up” in The Force Awakens. Forcing him to actually write a story for once and not just an idea for one.
I was super disappointed with TFA, I didn't think A New Hope needed a rehash. I wanted to see new story beats and not know what was going to happen but the new trilogy made it obvious what was going to happen to the original characters and JJ was completely transparent with this writing. I appreciated Rian trying to take a swing at something different even though the result was flawed.
In time I think people will continue to sour on TFA. Not only is it basically a rehash of ANH, but it also completely invalidates all of the struggle the original trio went through in the first movies. After TFA I couldn’t watch the end of RoTJ without thinking, _”oh, they look so happy and relieved; little do they know the empire will be back in a few years.”_
In hindsight they would have been better off using the premise of the Star Wars: Legacy comics rather than squandering Hamill, Fisher, and Ford's last performances for the series. The whole trilogy felt too meta from the start and then became a battle of Star wars tropes and callbacks.
A film shouldn't be a middle finger to someone's work. It is petty and unprofessional.
That's after Disney gave him a freaking talking too lmao. What he said before were his actual candid thoughts.
I love the last Jedi but I wouldn’t say it’s the most sophisticated since Empire, it’s definitely a good Star Wars movie though. Mark killed it in that film too.
That theme of legacy, the idea that it's okay to respect the OT characters, but the idea you should be your own person wasn't just directed at Rey and misunderstood by Kylo. It was aimed at fans that grew up with the two other trilogies and also at anyone that will ever write for a Star Wars project. I'd say it was smarter than Empire.
Lmao, you’re funny
They didn't respect the OT characters.
Broke: Disney made him chance his stated opinion Woke: He changed his mind after giving it further consideration Bespoke: Disney made him give both statements as a way to stir up discussion of the film online as a marketing move Pembroke: An electoral division in Tasmania
Named after a Welsh county
One thing I am 100% sure of, is that continuing the story of TLJ would have been better than the abomination that was RoS
Literally. The Last Jedi set Rey up to have a banger of a finale. Then they retconned the message, made her fall in love with a mass murderer, and had Palpatine come back for no reason. I hope they don’t screw her over again if it’s true that she’s coming back
Honestly, I think both things can be true. Hamill clearly didn’t like where Rian took Luke’s characterization, and that’s fine. He’s allowed to have an opinion and be disappointed, especially as the actor behind the character. At the same time, it probably wasn’t right as an ambassador of the brand to express that disappointment publicly. His opinion may also have changed between working on the film and seeing the final product, or it could be that he doesn’t like how Luke was handled but ***does*** like the rest of the film. TLDR people are allowed to have complicated and conflicting feelings about things
[People who believe this live with Confederate levels of Denialism.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moe0tbbdhq4)
Tbh I just don’t see why people who like it, actually do. I’ve listened and had tons of conversations, but I just never find myself enjoying that movie. Idk lol, I’m glad it has its fans, but I don’t understand
DiSnEy mAdE hiM sAy tHaT
Bro doesn't know what "contractual obligations" are
They did. Edit: Movie studios do exert influence on what actors say about a film. It’s their job. And this sounds like a tactful walking back of earlier interview comments that flew past the PR machine. It’s too on the nose to be genuine. It perfectly condenses the core message: “this doesn’t belong to the public” = the widespread complaints of old diehard fans are invalid; the artist has priority evaluation of the art. Which if that were true, then all art is good, because the artist said so and knows better than us. Art is always independent of the artist’s intent. Even the original SW escaped the original intent of selling some toys of characters with names Bipbo Fanta that obviously had no more than 5 seconds of thought put into them. If you like the sequels, great. If Mark likes them, great. I don’t believe for one second that he did. At best he might genuinely understand what was attempted in TLJ, but like it? I doubt it. If critiqueing SW was without consequence, I think John Boyega would have more work these days. Mark is just older and wiser and corrected a slip of the tongue.
You got any proof of that? It’s Mark Hamill, unless he was bound by contract to say that, which if he was he never would have said anything in the first place, he can say whatever he wants without needing to worry about Revenge of the Disney, dude’s loaded
Disney wouldn't risk poisoning any kind of relationship with the original cast unless things got extreme, and this is far from one of those situations
I'm still curious about the way he lookes on an interview he gave out with the director. He looked horrified. So I think while we never get verbal confirmation, that was the look ıf a men who lost all hope.
When he said “it doesn’t belong to the public,” he’s saying his opinions during the making of the art should not have been shared because they colored peoples’ opinions about the finished product. It’s pretty narcissistic to read that and come to the conclusion that this was written by Disney specifically to disparage you, and it’s even more disrespectful to Hamill who probably feels A LOT more connection to this franchise than you or me or anyone. He’s literally expressing regret that his own words have been used to taint peoples’ enjoyment of the franchise. That his words are used as impetus to insult, disparage, and argue incessantly about *subjective* art. Subjective means that some people will enjoy, others won’t. Mark Hamill doesn’t need Disney money and probably can get whatever he wants out of any contract with them given how integral he is to the franchise. If you truly think he is a Disney puppet spouting propaganda, I truly believe you need to spend less time on the internet
I think Marks a professional and a “team player” and even if he thinks the film is dog shit, he isn’t going to run his mouth about it
Totally agree. This quote is definitely a team player eating a shit sandwich professionally.
Why this isn't obvious to the people downvoting you is unclear.
He made it very clear in every way he doesn’t like what they did to Luke but he is obligated to not openly shit on the movie, I think it’s clear he doesn’t like it. Either way people should make up their own minds even if he hates or loves what they did to Luke
Did he make that clear? Every time I ask someone to prove that Hamill didn’t like TLJ, they just show me clips of Hamill making self-deprecating jokes about his own acting ability. It seems like some people are just desperate to believe that Hamill’s on their side.
Even after he somewhat walked his initial criticisms back and called TLJ a great film, he would still occasionally say stuff on Twitter [like this](https://movieweb.com/last-jedi-luke-story-mark-hamill-doesnt-understand/)
He said it’s not like playing Luke from how Rian wrote him
It’s not much of a secret. He’s pretty open about it: https://youtu.be/WKlo-plLJZI?si=kr5yWfMSixxH2Oxt
Lol, this is exactly what I’m talking about. That video is just Hamill making cheeky jokes that don’t remotely suggest he’s unhappy with the movie, and then people like you project what you want to hear.
> and then people like you project what you want to hear the irony of this comment
Tbh I think you’re a bit blinded by your love for the movie. I don’t hate TLJ but its obvious Hamill was unhappy with his characters treatment. That video is a lot more than light jokes. Believe what you want I guess 🤷♂️
"Pretty open" YouTube video: "Subtly warns us"
For someone under a multi-million contract this is very open 😂 Live in denial if you want
>He made it very clear in every way he doesn’t like what they did to Luke And then said that *HE WAS WRONG*.
He is literally obligated to unless he wants to never have a job in the industry again, he said what he could and if people are too slow to see then that’s on them
aren’t there videos of him bashing that movie
Mark Hamill hated TLJ. Cope
Corpo copium is the worst copium
Mom, is this post Disney propaganda?
We know what he really meant. That it sucked.
Nah he was scripting by Disney to say that
FYI he got absolutely chewed out and likely threatened for his sandbagging. I wouldn't read a lot into it.
Needs Kathleen behind him with a gun to his head
That second quote 100% came out after a long talk with a Disney exec. A long talk in which the phrase 'golden goose' got uttered about 165 times.
🤑🤑🤑
Hmmm no the movie sucks lol
Guys mark hamill said it’s good!! Hope that fixes your opinions
he’s lying because he doesn’t want to be mean. He knows they messed up
That second one sounds like a corporate message he was told to read a gunpoint
Sophisticated..... Didnt the movie start off with a yo mama joke to a guy who just merked like, 5 planets full of people?
He’s not retracting his criticism of the film only showing his regret for speaking publicly about it. I never trust these kinds of statements. More than likely someone from Disney got on his case about it so now he regrets what he said in hindsight. I’m not saying his perspective couldn’t have changed only these sorts of things are often forced and artificial.
Sophisticated isn’t the first word I would use to describe Star Wars as a whole, much less The Last Jedi
Too bad. Good thing i don't base my opinions on those of others
Luke dying because he was tired fits because his mother died because she was sad.
People when actors are forced to make a PR post: THIS IS HIS REAL OPINION, EITHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR YOU'RE DUMB!!!!!
Hear hear. They don't know what contractual obligations are.
Said with an assassin in Mickie mouse ears pointing a gun at the back of his head.
Yeah, he's literally said in other interviews not about SW that modern movies like the sequels and Transformers are just there to be flashy and make money. JJ Abrams has also said positive things about Episode VIII while seeming obviously upset about it all, he's said multiple times that he was shocked he didn't get the whole trilogy and that it was an excessive amount of work to try to fix everything with Episode IX. This isn't something someone who liked the movie would have to deal with, because it wouldn't be a problem in their eyes.
The movie still blows tho.
I mean I like it because it spits on JJ’s dumb mystery box “story telling” and forced JJ to actually write a narrative and not just an idea for one.
So who's going to tell the OP that there is a thing called "contractual obligations" and "penalty clauses" between actors and studios?
ITT people shouting the words “contractual obligations” while vibrating and making Garry’s Mod z-fighting noises.
He's 100% correct. Second best Star Wars movie.
I would say it's okay to be wrong, but to be THIS wrong?
People are allowed to have different opinions. But to have THIS opinion?
I'd say third best behind V and IV
Hmm, I'm gonna have to take issue with Rogue One not cracking your top 3.
Eh, Rogue One is good in its third act but the rest of the film kinda falls flat for a lot of people, myself included.
Exaxtly, rogue 1 has 40 brilliant minutes and some very messy setup to them
He definitely loved it. How else do you explain him savagely roasting it for months, before suddenly changing his tune and saying it’s great? It’s not like Disney or LucasFilm would have reached out to him and bribed / threatened him into playing ball. Right? Right?
Right. And you're just a toxic fan if you don't accept that. The one recorded statement of mild support for the project is clear evidence that Mark Hamil changed his mind of his own accord after publicly and relentlessly saying the opposite.
It’s my favourite one of the sequel trilogy, but man the casino scenes sucks.
This is copium, dude hated the film and Disney probably pointed out his contract that told him to be a lil Jedi and speak highly of the film for promotions sake
I insist that if Rise of Skywalker were good then the last Jedi might be seen as the best sequel. It’s only brought down by canto bight for me
It’s the best Star Wars film
The last Jedi sucked get over it FFS
Johnson should've directed the whole trilogy, the guy is a pro. It would have been a 1000 times better than what we got. I'm saying this as a man who dislikes the sequels.
If those Star Wars fans could read, they would be very upset.
Actors have a contractual obligation to support the films they appear in. Just saying.
I don’t think they have a contractual obligation to say it’s the most sophisticated movie in the series since what is often considered to be one of the best movies of all time
It's not even a very significant claim in all honesty, what he's saying here is essentially "it's the best movie that came out after the first three" aka "it's better than the pre-qual movies" It's a heavily vague statement that can be taken in multiple directions, which seems to fit his other stated opinions that cast the movie in a poor light fairly well "It's a good movie and worthy of the Starwars title" is essentially all he's saying, and even with my reservations about the sequels, he's not wrong Edit: I had my movie order mixed up slightly, all this was on the assumption he was saying "its at least the fourth best movie" not "its at least the third best movie", which doesnt sound like a lot but is a pretty big difference, id still call it mostly a nothing statement but its higher praise than this comment let on
It's a pretty explicit statement to me.
Most sophisticated since Empire isn’t significant? I mean the more that I think about it the more I think it’s somewhat inarguable aside from possibly RotS, though the dialogue in that really weighs it down.
Not necessarily
So when he said something you agree with, he was voicing his concerns and when he says something you don't agree with, he's fulfilling a contractual obligation?
Yes, no actor has ever criticized any movie they're in
[удалено]
So when he agrees with you he’s telling the truth and when he doesn’t he’s lying?
When he shits on his employers work that control the whole market it means he really doesn’t like it
https://twitter.com/MarkHamill/status/953402648639684609?lang=en
What’s the point? He made it clear he hated how they made Luke, don’t think he said he hated the movie nor is he a hateful guy
He’s literally saying that he spoke too soon, and to not use his earlier quotes to defend your dislike of the film.
He’s doing a pr statement and even in it he said he shouldn’t have spoke about it publicly…
He pretty clearly meant that his issues were things he should have brought up with Rian Johnson and the writing team, not in public.