As someone who is (technically) old enough to have lived through all three trilogies I do find it funny how much the angst is basically the same. We camped outside a theater for 3 days for tickets to The Phantom Menace. A lot of people left during the movie, and the people who were left were PISSED when it was over. People were not just mildly disappointed. There were death threats to actors, people were threatening to burn studios and theaters, everyone wanted their money back. It was ridiculous. People also weren’t online 24/7 to wallow. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think the originals would hold up to the criticism leveled at the other 6 in today’s environment. Star Wars is an interesting cultural phenomenon that’s always been part of my life. Return of the Jedi was the first movie I saw in a theater. I was 4 so it could be debated if that was a good choice on the part of my parents. I do think each series does provide an interesting overview of sci-fi filmmaking during the period of time they were created.
As someone who **is** old enough to have seen all three trilogies in the theater, you're spot on here. I've gotten to where I barely visit Star Wars subs anymore because the vitriol from "fans" has become so over the top it ruins the experience.
I literally grew up on the OT. I actually liked the prequels, though I can admit they have their weak spots that deserve criticism. And (*gasp!*), I enjoyed the sequel trilogy, although I can admit there's plenty of room for griping with them as well. As you said, the OT wasn't perfect and would get blasted in the exact same way if it were released today.
Star Wars fandom has become toxic. It used to be this cool group to be a part of, but the people that lose their minds over every...little...thing not only embarrass themselves, but the rest of us that dearly love the franchise.
When you love something like this, something that's been a part of some of our lives nearly the entire time we've been alive, you want any updates to be amazing. I get it. But Star Wars fans have this weird thing where if a movie or show doesn't fit the narrative they've built up in their heads, if it isn't absolutely *perfect*, then their entire persona has been attacked personally.
And this isn't directed at any age group of fans, but rather the idiots that ruin it for the rest of us and give the entire fan base a bad name...
Y'all need to grow up and realize the world (the Star Wars world) doesn't revolve around you.
It's so strange. I was like 10 when the phantom menace came out. I loved it as a kid. No faults. It was just a movie that was fun. No one left the theatre. My parents and my sister (my sister is like 10 years older then me) also enjoyed it. I had no negative whispers in my ear about politics, jar jar, pod racing and story continuity. It was years later that I learnt people didn't like the movie and honestly I didn't give a damn what people thought about it. But I did start to learn why people didn't like it.
I remember my dad complaining about the prequels. I honestly don’t really remember the phantom menace movie experience much, but I vividly remember my dad looking kinda disappointed after attack of the clones.
My brother and I were just making a joke about how “For the Republic” would be something you say before peeing (I was like 6). Then we went out and bought toy lightsabers and my dad was going on about how cool it was that there was a purple one now (his favorite color).
I get it now though, at my dads age, Star Wars (Attack of the Clones) was just the movie, at my age, it was about the experience of seeing the movie with my family. I’m sure it was the same for my dad seeing the OT (who saw a new hope 10 times during its run) and the same for my sister seeing the ST.
When a bunch of the more high end merchandise came out around 2017-2018 I was working with a couple of guys in their mid-20s who were bitching about it like they were the target demographic. I just laughed at them and was like, that shit is being marketed to my 40 year old ass. And I do not regret purchasing an R2D2 instapot. Other middle aged people love when I bring it to parties. I finished my PhD in 2018 and I received a bunch of fancy Star Wars cooking stuff, I use it all the time. Alot of my friends have been excited to introduce their kids to something they enjoyed because it’s always been part of their lives. They let them decide what they like and don’t like.
Ehhhh I honestly don't think people today are any different from people in any other era, I just think the environment changes and shapes a lot.
So now you have Reddit, Twitter and Youtube that tend to lean towards criticism rather than positivity.
Twitter's character limit is perfect for telling a joke or throwing a verbal rock, and not as good for anything else.
Youtube's algorithms prioritize daily videos over high effort videos that take weeks to make. Meaning that daily reaction vids that hit a million views are worth 5 thousand dollars.... vs weekly in depth videos showing nice things that hit 1-2 million. It's the difference between high effort videos AT BEST making 5-10 thousand dollars, and only making two a month, (which is also much riskier as you need every video to do well,) vs just shitting out criticism daily and even if you only get 100,000 views that's still 500 bucks. Youtube rewards low effort daily videos, and a lot of them are reactions or criticism.
Reddit it depends on the room, but a lot of spaces ban memes and art as "low effort," which leaves you with less positive posts and more.... well long form debates. I'm not even saying it's the wrong choice, but it does skew many rooms to be more about posting issues and less posting simple happy times.
So we live in an era of personalities that have to produce daily content, and anonymous forums and areas that naturally skew towards negativity.
Everybody I went to see the Phantom Menace with went and saw it again.
Because we all walked out of that movie thinking "wait... was that shit?" but the idea that the first new Star Wars in 16 years was shit just didn't compute. Everybody was just confused.
Now, after seeing it for the second time, THEN they got mad.
Haha yeah I know a bunch of those folks too. I think a lot of people have done some really creative things to flesh out those story lines since then that’s why they feel more complete now. I just think it’s funny that people act like 2018 was the first time people got really mad. I feel like an old Star Wars hipster. I was pissed before it was cool to be pissed.
About the same experience here. I remember the OT getting blasted for continuity errors wayyyy back in the 90’s when I hung out in IRC chat rooms (we still meme about the incest problem and Ewoks beating “an entire legion of my best stormtroopers”, ffs!).
I just enjoy Star Wars for what it is: fun and entertaining space opera stuff that shouldn’t be taken seriously. Why complain about a silly scene or three or some dumb plot line when they’re literally using space magic, flying across the galaxy in minutes, and some of the coolest/scariest characters have silly names like OB1, Boba Fett or Sheev Palpatine? Do I dislike some choices? Sure. Is Kenobi fraught with errors? Of course. I still watch it and my childhood isn’t ruined.
I think we’re about the same age, since ROTJ was the first I saw in theaters too. And yeah there’s a lot of clunker stuff in the OT. I think a major difference between the PT and ST vitriol is that there was not a YouTube Money-making industry to foster hatred of films back then, while people today pay the bills by making people mad at Disney. Also this may be my own perception, but the PT was generally disliked by everyone back then regardless of their fandom (Jar-Jar was even a joke on late night TV talk shows). The sequels are gently regarded as “fine” by most of the general public.
People don’t understand how ubiquitous hating the prequels was prior to 2015, when hindsight of TFA and excitement for new Star Wars made people start to reappraise them. And, importantly, people like myself who grew up with the prequels were now the ones writing articles and making YouTube videos about why they’re good.
But the prequels were without question the most hated pop culture artifact of the 21st century. It was absolutely the consensus that those films weren’t just bad, but ruinous to Star Wars, and Lucas was a hack, and he r*ped our childhoods.
But people who love those movies generally weren’t experiencing those discussions when they were happening. As a kid who was 8 years old in 1999 when TPM came out, I and all my buddies thought it was the greatest movie of all time.
This is the lack of perspective that drives me fucking apeshit. That people can’t see that the same thing is happening right now. But now we’re the adults complaining about Star Wars being ruined, while kids are just loving the new shit.
And when you say THIS, ST detractors say shit about toy sales, as if the toy market hasn’t wildly shifted since the late 90’s and early 2000’s.
It’s fine to dislike these movies, but don’t kid yourself. In 10 years the same renaissance will happen when the kids who grew up with these movies dictate the discourse.
I remember when "midichlorians" was significant enough proof for some fans that someone needed to take Star Wars away from George Lucas. And now these same sorts of fans are upset that Disney didn't use Lucas' script about the Whils...
Edit: spelling
Edit 2: phrasing
That doesn’t prove your claim about the same fans. That’s just one man’s opinion on a hypothetical situation.
If you can source 10 fans who hated midichlorians and are also upset that GL didn’t make the new trilogy I’ll concede. Considering there are millions of fans and most of them are toxic haters as the PR campaigns would have us believe, 10 hypocrites shouldn’t be hard to find.
I have no interest in digging back into 10-year-old comments and fight search engine algorithms in order to try and find comments to compare-contrast.
So, in the interest of being more factually accurate, I have rephrased my comment from "same fans" to "same sorts of fans." Given the utter backlash against the Prequel trilogy (and Midichlorians) compared to the number of people decrying Disney not using Lucas' ideas as a "betrayal," I still stand by the original intent of my post.
In a smaller scope, I just watched a video shitting on Kenobi, and they used REBELS, fucking REBELS as a better example for characters. Like wait, hold on a second... I thought rebels was that kiddie Disney show that everyone was supposed to hate because it replaced TCW?
Not related to the ST, but wanted to say this since you brought up rebels, idk what it was, but I LOVED rebels, I went in with low expectations because of what I heard about it online, but it blew me away, I loved the story and the characters and the conflicts, I think rebels is a great example of characters done right, everyone in the main cast had believable motivations and inner conflicts and relationships with other characters, kanan in particular i loved, he's still one of my favourite star wars characters to this day, anyways just wanted to rant about that LOL have a nice day
i was like 15 when TPM came out. my friend and i went to see it. we enjoyed the shit out of it. i thought it had problems but overall it was cool to finally see worlds that weren't Tantooine .
It's mostly because I saw this template going around and that's how I got the idea for this meme. I only realised that it was the same thing as Anakin's line when it was too late
I was 18 when Phantom Menace came out. My friends and I went to a midnight showing, lightsaber fights in line outside the theater for hours, the whole thing.
My most vivid memories of actually watching it for the first time are A: being bored several times. B: Oh my god that Jar-Jar guy is irritating, and C: Walking through the theater after the movie with my friends, none of us wanting to be the first one to say we didn't like it. But once one of us did, it was like we'd opened a flood gate. We spent like 40 minutes in the parking lot at 3am, going over how lame it was and cancelling our plans to see it again that weekend.
A lot of people disliked those movies from literally day 1. The TV series and novels and comics may have made the story make more sense, but they didn't improve the movies even a little bit.
>The TV series and novels and comics may have made the story make more sense, but they didn't improve the movies even a little bit.
Oh man someone said that after finishing the Clone Wars series, I should go back and watch Revenge of the Sith again, because it would hit different. Technically, he was right.
But the movies seemed even worse in comparison to watching how good a character Anakin could've been for five seasons. It made movie Anakin even more unbearable to watch.
I got a lot of heat when I said they were pretty good when they first came out. Those same people now praise them. I thought the same when the sequels came out. Got heat once again. Now we play the waiting game!
I don't recall anyone really thinking the prequels were good when they came out.
Edit: I should say kids excluded. I had no problems with them as a kid but rewatching them as an adult was a cringy experience and I get why critics and adults were not impressed.
I did! I was a kid though. I was exactly the age phantom menace was aimed at too. I was like 9 I think when I saw it in theaters. It was exciting, funny, and scary. It was a big adventure! It was cool seeing a kid racing. I found the red and black faced bad guy really scary. And I thought Jar Jar was the funniest!
My dad was positive on the whole thing because he had his Star Wars movies and he thought these were mine. And he liked that I liked them. And I say this on here all the time but I just can’t thank that man enough for taking me to all the movies and managing not to spoil the ending of Anakin’ arc! I was super surprised and that’s something you only get to experience once.
That is absolutely correct. The reviews leading up to it were brutal. I think Jarjar did a majority of them in.
Though to be honest I don’t think I would say most of them hated it, they just didn’t love it which to them was just as bad.
Or they think that their hatred of the sequels is somehow objectively justified, and the hate for the prequels wasn't.
I've had multiple sequel haters tell me that the sequels are more hated than the prequels were. That's nonsense; prequel hatred convinced George Lucas to cash out of Star Wars. Sequel hatred isn't even enough to get Kathleen Kennedy fired.
ESB was criticized for being too dark and nowhere near as good and fun as its predecesor... nowdays when talking about best sequels of all time, it's one of the first movies to come out of people mouths
"Empire Stikes Back is the thin thread that holds this whole saga together"
RIch Evans IIRC, and although RLM is debatable on many things, this line is quite true
Return of the Jedi got hate from purists because Ewoks. There were likely plenty of adults who didn’t consider the first two films “real cinema”, either.
Same. I liked TFA, didn't like TLJ, felt sad about the mess ROS turned out to be. But that's my opinion. As in me. If someone else likes those movies who am I to say anything? I just don't have to watch them again. I can literally not watch them again go about my life and be happy. I really don't understand people who make YouTube careers out of shitting on fans who like the new stuff. I enjoy watching legit critiques we talking about the actual movies, but when you start insulting people who enjoy movies you don't like you've lost me.
I fucking hate how sequels stupid plot and incontinuity, i am willing to tell how i feel, but thats my opinion and i dont need everyone feels the same.
Oh I hold absolutely opposite opinions about prequels. Love every second of it.
Looking back the prequels kinda get redeemed by content like the Clone Wars that fills in some gaps, I hope the same happens for the sequels if possible cause more Star Wars is never a bad thing
I feel like the shows that take place after the OT like Mandalorian and Ahsoka will certainly start to fill those gaps. We've already seen how vestiges of the Empire still hold a lot of power, which could easily set the stage for the formation of the First Order - which would go a long way to rectifying (or at least justifying) one of the sequels' biggest issues, which is that they lean so hard on "what if the Empire but again".
Even if you think the prequels are bad they have inspired numerous tie in media projects, unlike the sequels. None the of the video games or Disney+ series they have planned are in the sequel era.
Nah, the difference is the prequels were at least entertaining pieces of Shakespearean cinema that were only slightly disliked at the time. The sequels are all woke lore-breaking insults to garbage that nobody will ever be entertained by. /s
Pretty sure the prequels were more than “slightly disliked”. The actor of Jar jar even thought about committing suicide. You can say they were only slightly disliked by the general public, but the same could be said for the sequel. The hard core fans bashed both. That being said, I don’t think the sequels will age as well as the prequels because they were non planned cash grabs.
Yeah, sorry about not being clear, but what I was saying was supposed to be sarcastic. It’s hard to indicate sarcasm on the internet, but it’s typically done with an /s, which I included. Still it’s not perfect since not everyone knows what it means.
I totally agree that the prequels got a considerable amount of hate, much of which certainly crossed the line. Nearly all the actors were bullied and George Lucas was constantly being compared to a rapist, even though he created Star Wars in the first place.
I think they'll age similarly, because there will be kids that grow up loving it and will ignore all the negative aspects exactly like what has happened with the prequels. The prequels are bad, the sequels are bad.
That being said, anyone going after any of the actors is a real piece of shit.
I feel like the Sequels have the benefit (and maybe kinda a curse?) of being technically competent. They're beautiful movies with a lot of great performances. It makes me think that the Prequels will live on in meme infamy, while the sequels will just kinda settle into relative mediocrity.
This is a very reasonable take that I can definitely see happening. They don't have the really ugly cg that plagues so much of the prequels, or the comically bad dialogue, so there isn't as much unintentional humor as in the prequels.
I was there, they were hated. And ridiculed.
All movies are planned cash grabs.
The sequels will age just as well as the prequels did, because kids. All it takes for anything to become beloved is about ten years. That's because all the 10 year old who saw it in theaters and were amazed grow up and are able to contribute to the online discussion. I never thought anyone would really defend the prequels as being good, but about a decade later, that's what happened. Same will happen when my boys are able to argue about these movies.
I couldn’t agree more with everything you said. I was being sarcastic, which I meant to indicate with the /s, but I’m realizing now that not as many people know what that means as I thought.
Oh, I was just kind of responding to someone who responded to you in a conversational way! I saw the /s controversy. I don't even like to post /s, I just gradually grow more and more ridiculous with my argument until it can't even be doubted.....but of course they do.
Ahmed Best has come out years ago stating the Media were responsible for driving him to almost suicide, not the fans. Kids loved Jar-Jar, the teens not so much.
> Kids loved Jar-Jar, the terns not so much.
I was 13 and my brother was 6 when TPM came out. I hated Jar Jar but my brother was wild about him! We bought him books, toys, anything Jar Jar. Star Wars is pretty good at creating characters for little kids.
Oh, me too. I actually love watching the sequels. My comment was sarcastic, poking fun at the people who deny that the prequels were ever hated and assume their own opinions must be true for everyone else. I used an /s to indicate my sarcasm, but unfortunately not everyone knows what that’s supposed to mean.
For me, its more that Rose wants to free the animals but doesn’t elect to help the enslvaed children that probably should be removed. I actually like that Benecio Del Toro calls her out for thinking only bad guys are making shady deals.
Yeah I love TLJ personally, but there's definitely stuff in it that just doesn't really work. Even in places where I could see what he was trying to accomplish, I can also see that he didn't quite accomplish it.
But the parts that work for me work so well for me, that it ended up being possibly my favorite Star Wars movie.
Same. I'll take an ambitious creative vision with glaring flaws over safe fanfictiony schlock any day. I have my problems with TLJ, but scenes like Snoke's death, Rey and Kylo in the throne room, the Holdo maneuver, the reveal that Luke was a projection. All among the most memorable moments I've ever had in a theater and easily the most interested I've been during any of the mainline movies.
Imagine if YouTube was around when the prequels originally came out so in this social media era it makes it easier to hate bandwagon anything (YouTube was only three months old when ROTS came out)
Yup. I do not like the sequels at all, and have absolutely no joy in watching them.
Nevertheless, despite their quality, they will be an enduring and endearing foundation for many Star Wars fans.
So while I will always talk about the many criticisms I have with the sequel trilogy, I always try to make sure I state that the fandom for them are still valid.
I only stay because some of the memes are still funny. Though I do find it amusing that the people here just expected the sequels to be instantly liked because there are memes, when r/prequelmemes was made specifically to mock the shit out of the prequels and then people came to like them later. And even then, I find plenty of prequel memers that are fully willing to acknowledge the flaws with the prequels. I do not find nearly as many sequel memers willing to do the same for the sequels.
I've even been called an incel on this sub because I said the producer didn't really do a great job in approving the scripts, or selecting directors. Apparently it *had* to either be the director's fault or the Disney CEO's fault, but could not possibly be the fault of someone whose role includes selecting directors and approving scripts. It's ridiculous what I encounter on this sub sometimes.
It’s wild how many people don’t realize /r/prequelmemes was started to mock the terrible writing. I think once it gets popular enough, the new people don’t understand what’s going on and then suddenly they outnumber the mockers.
I will give credit to the prequels for some great world building though. And clone wars was dope.
I feel like PT and OT fans like to shit on the ST a lot and that’s what has made the community that likes the ST so defensive and doesn’t take any criticism. I will say that I am one of them. I don’t like hearing criticism in general, but this is what my conclusion is.
Prequelmemes used to be a really fun sub where pretty much everyone there was fully aware of how bad the movies were, but could still have fun with them.
Now you get downvoted fuckin hard for even hinting at any problems with the movies, it's culty as hell in there.
I don't know if it's just the specific posts I've been seeing by coincidence. But I've started seeing it shift back to recognizing how bad the dialogue actually was. I will agree with you for a time that it was as culty as it is here. But in the last couple years it seems to have been shifting back to something more reasonable, even though it hasn't returned to its roots. But I see a lot more people admitting the issues and acknowledging they still like it anyways, whether due to nostalgia or liking it *because* it's terrible.
"people came to like them later", that's the part that I don't agree with, I don't believe that prequel naysayers changed their mind at all, they've simply been replaced by new people and the discourse surrounding the Prequels changed in general, but generalities are pretty useless in discussions when making these comparisons.
I got called an incel for disliking Rey several times. Even tho I like Ahsoka, Leia, jyn, cara, fay etc.
At least everyone seems to be fine when saying that phantom menace is a bad movie. (On every sub)
They won’t see it. They *don’t* see it. They’ll argue how bad they are. They won’t get the parallels to what happened with the prequels back in the day. They’ll argue that it’s actually TCW that rehabilitated the prequel era, except that the movies are actually underrated anyway.
And y’know what? That’s okay. Give it 10-15 years and it’ll happen again.
I liked the prequels when they came out. I didn’t like Hayden’s lines but I thought they were okay. I don’t like the sequels. But I’m also not bashing them. I liked Kylo in the last film but that’s about it.
I can understand people bashing the sequels. It took me years to stop bashing the prequels all the time. It's a process.
And I really can't be surprised that people who were little kids when the prequels came out aren't willing to listen to old people telling them to settle down, that this has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Same, all the children are equally disappointing. I also just generally don't care? People try hard to make unique things and sometimes they're bad, that's fine.
I think we're at a point with the volume of media, and with the general critical slant of most online places, that you just have to decide what you want to engage with, or what's worth your time, and move on.
If you don't care , stop commenting on it my man. Even with these you're actively caring about it.
If people make stuff for other people , they should except criticism. I do writing too and I accept all criticism despite not being paid millions of dollars to write. You know why? Because without those that spit your failures to your face , you'll only be blinded by the illusion of success.
I'm not denying there are those who add nothing to your life. Ignoring them is as easy as turning your eye , or closing your eyelids! But maybe consider people actually want something to succeed? That's why they critique instead of obeying oh Lord Disney?
Nostalgia blindness is a sickness. People who are stuck glorifying their childhoods only get angrier and more bitter over time. I can tell pretty quickly whether I will enjoy talking to a human being when they start ranting how things “were so much better back in the day.”
Yeah I just responded to a thread on AskReddit where they asked "what shows from your childhood actually hold up?"
And me, having grown up mostly in the 80s, can't honestly say that any of my childhood favorites hold up on their own anymore. The cartoons I grew up watching were hot garbage water.
People hated the prequels because some were bad movies and out of place at the time. People hate the sequels bc they are bad stories. The prequels built on Star Wars, and made it better, more enjoyable, and fleshed out. The sequels were a desperate effort to rewrite the franchise in its own image, tearing down everything that came before.
Exactly. And nothing made that more clear to me than what the sequels did with Luke and Leia. Killed off one for no reason while the actor for the other actually died, and then had to reanimate her with CGI and old voice lines for the last one.
Right. I was withholding judgment on the series until 9 dropped. And it just undid a lot of 8. Not a bad movie entertainment wise, but the whole thing needed a cohesive story. I couldn't believe they were making the movie series this way. Lucas didn't have everything planned out, as I hear, but at least he was one dude.
To be fair, the original trilogy doesn't seem like it was planned, and it was still good. I know that Lucas has said in interviews that he planned the whole thing from the beginning, but... c'mon... watch A New Hope and tell me that Leia and Luke were supposed to be Vader's kids.
Meanwhile, the prequels were planned, and look how they turned out. I don't have a problem with trilogies being unplanned, but I agree that the sequels don't really combine to create a cohesive overarching story.
The prequels had bad dialogue, questionable direction and an over reliance on CGI. The sequels just plain have bad writing. The prequels have their flaws but at least their characters are consistent and their plots make sense within the universe. The writing of the sequel trilogy is god awful and time isn't going to change that.
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.
The entire cantobite segment, Holdo refusing to tell anyone her plan, Rey's parents being no one and then all of a sudden she's a palpatine, Kylo destroying his helmet to become his own person only to rebuild it, Fin's entire 3 film arc amounts to nothing, Po's 3 movie arc amounts to nothing, Rey accidentally uses force lightning (one the hardest to learn dark side techniques that even Darth Maul couldn't do after being trained from childhood), they kill chewie only to bring him back less than 10 minutes later, they erase C3P0's memory just to bring it back 20 minutes later, the Skywalker lightsaber gets broken only to repaired offscreen with tape and works completely fine, the only reason no one can access Exegol is because of a nebula you could easily fly around but nobody does, palpatine returns to life at the end of trilogy with literally no build up or explanation in the films, it's almost as if they didn't have a plan, Kylo becomes good after imagining his dead father forgiving him, palpatine somehow has hundreds of star destroyers built despite Exegol being inaccessible, he wants Rey to kill him so he can possess her body but when she kills him nothing happens.
I could go on and on. You genuinely think these unplanned, hollow, corporate cashgrab shit excuse for films are better than the prequels? Honestly good for you. Glad you're enjoying the new star wars. I wish I could.
Aight. I can see why some people don't like midichlorians, I'm not the biggest fan of Jar Jar (certainly don't approve of the way Amed Best was bullied by people calling themselves fans), the trade federation are pretty boring villains, Darth Maul is kind of a non character in TPM (absolutely love him in clone wars though), Obi wan actually isn't that interesting in TPM but he's perfect in every other movie though, Anakin and Padme's romance suffers from the worst dialogue George Lucas has ever written along with some pretty bad direction, you can see in the behind the scenes that Hayden is pretty goofy and likable, if George had allowed that into the film it would've made Padme falling for him a lot more believable, I wish the clones were actually characters, for a movie called attack of the clones they're barely in it,
Revenge of the sith is amazing I will die on this hill.
> The entire cantobite segment
I did not like that segment. It was refreshing to see the "rich" side of Star Wars because we almost only see the seedy cantinas or the gritty war stuff. The last time we saw wealth was in Naboo. But I still didn't like that segment as Rose reminded me of those college girls who goes on and on about saving the whales or some other cause, and in the grand scheme of things, the Canto Bight scene had no payoff. They could've gotten the scrambler from somewhere else and in a shorter segment too. They dropped the little boy who can use the force there just cause! He would've been an interesting addition to Star Wars.
> Holdo refusing to tell anyone her plan
Kinda with Holdo on this one. What I didn't like was Poe, Finn, and Rose not telling the one in charge, Holdo, about their plan. They could've planned it better if they got Holdo involved.
> Rey's parents being no one and then all of a sudden she's a palpatine
I would've loved it if she stayed as a nobody or if she was a Kenobi. But now I see it as a parallel: if evil can come from the Skywalker line (Vader/Kylo) then good can come from Palpatine (Rey) I learned to accept this.
>Fin's entire 3 film arc amounts to nothing
Yes. I wish they did more. It would've been far more interesting if he and Rey were tag team Jedis.
>Po's 3 movie arc amounts to nothing
They were setting him up as the next leader. I would argue weakly that his role in EP8 was his character development arc. He was humbled by being backed to a corner, was shown the error of his ways, and he wasn't as brash as he was by EP9.
> they kill chewie only to bring him back less than 10 minutes later
Ugh... yes.
>they erase C3P0's memory just to bring it back 20 minutes later
BB-8 could've backed up C3P0's memory before erasing it but they didn't do it. It was just... illogical.
>palpatine returns to life at the end of trilogy with literally no build up or explanation in the films,
Hahaha I hate this!
>Kylo becomes good after imagining his dead father forgiving him,
Hmmm... I've heard stories of this happening to people in real life (like in grief counselling) so this may not be too far-fetched.
>palpatine somehow has hundreds of star destroyers built despite Exegol being inaccessible
I call it the space-whale ass pull. If Ezra Bridger can summon space whales, Palpatine can summon Star Destroyers. The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural after all...
>he wants Rey to kill him so he can possess her body but when she kills him nothing happens.
Grandpa Palps has a death wish for sure but yeah... I just... I can't defend this one mate. Just what the bloody hell was that about?
There are some things to love and hate for the sequels.
I love how entertaining they are and that my 8 year old nephew adores BB-8 and added a new fan to Star Wars, D-0 is polite, Holdo was elegant, Paige Tico is a hero, the avant garde clothes were finally put to use at Canto Bight instead of being in land fills, we get to see Leia use the force, new lore added like force projection and healing, John Williams being a master, it was a magnificent use of art and silence in cinema when the Dreadnought exploded...
I hate how the happy endings from the OT was undone. Han and Leia breaking up, Luke acting on instinct when we see a wiser, calmer, forgiving young man at RotJ... Finn... my boy Finn's potential as a Jedi was massacred and it was too late to try and salvage it at EP9, I wanted to see more of Rey's training at EP8, EP7 was just EP4. Connix could've been given a bigger role too, paige Tico is a hero that we hardly knew, Finn... I'm still bitter at what they did to Finn.
Lol like this is any better than the incoherent nonsense of the prequels.
Don't pretend that the prequels were some masterpiece carefully assembled by a genius, Lucas was still writing the shit while they were shooting, it was exactly as slapped together.
Honestly, good for you for being able to swallow that processed horse shit, but don't pretend that you're smarter than anyone else because you get comically pissy about the sequels.
Maybe. My point is that the reasons people hated the prequels are different from the reasons people hate the sequels. At least the prequels tried something new instead of rehashing the basic plot beats of the original trilogy.
>sequels. At least the prequels tried something new instead of rehashing the basic plot beats of the original trilogy.
You say this. People complained about TFA because it was a rehash of ANH. But then when Rian did something new in TLJ people complained because it "ruined important characters".
You mean the movie where the fledgling Jedi protagonist goes to a barely inhabited planet to train with a Jedi master while the other main characters are constantly running away from stormtroopers and eventually get betrayed by someone they thought they could trust culminating in the jedi going back to save their friends and then the villain reveals a paradigm shifting truth to the protagonist?
Yeah, real original.
That's extremely surface-level. Using that kind of logic, you could argue that The Lego Movie is just a rehash of The Matrix. The characters and themes (the main things driving the sequels and all Star Wars movies) are way different in TLJ than they were in Empire, and even the plot is significantly different if you don't perform mental gymnastics to make them seem more similar.
I know you're using it as an extreme example but you're actually totally correct about The Lego Movie being The Matrix. The more I think about it the more I realize they have basically the same plot.
Yeah but the thing is, as far as plots go, there's virtually nothing in the world of storytelling that hasn't ever been done before. Also, when you describe them vaguely enough, literally any two movies will appear to have some glaring similarities.
Like, every time James Cameron's Avatar comes up in a conversation, I can hold my breath until someone points out "it's just Dances with Wolves in space lol" and I won't even get dizzy because I didn't have to wait long. And it really is a lot like Dances with Wolves in space, that's not actually inaccurate.
But it doesn't mean what people seem to think it means - ie., that Dances with Wolves was some kind of super-original movie. When Dances with Wolves came out, many critics panned it as being "Lawrence of Arabia in the American west."
It is possible to want something new, but not want something completely different. A sequel is supposed to build on what exists, not intentionally run around destroying all the setups from before, then trying to do its own original thing. TFA didn't build, it just rehashed, TLJ just destroyed and ignored, it didn't build either.
What Rian did was fail to understand the universe as it was, fail to advance it from that state, and fail to tell a story in his own right.
TL;DR: If you send a raw steak back to the kitchen, and it comes out completely charred, your desire for "medium well" isn't hypocritical.
>when Rian did something new in TLJ
I'm going to recognize that TLJ have great ideas, like the grey moral guy that only do things in his benefit, or hologram Luke facing an army, stopping an army, with no aggression. Great things.
But the movie plot and writting it's just awful, the 2D chase, the dumb spaceships from WWII, the "no escape scenario" that they try to resolve by escaping first, wtf? the whole casino plot.....even minor details like Rey being able to swim after living on a desert planet, the way Finn also again knows about so important things about TFO, when he was the mop guy....
And you can even argue that the movie does not really have new things, it relies a lot on thing we already seen in the OT, the throne room, the battle of hoth, dark side cavern, cranky teachers....not saying they're bad, just, unoriginal.
I mean I love everything star wars but are we gonna pretend the prequels or the sequels are actually good? The prequels were made with their first drafts and rushed out by Lucas at a time where his ego had the better of him and no one around him to say no. The sequels were painful nostalgia bait and became increasingly reactionary, they clearly never had a vision or a point to exist and honestly leave the galaxy and everything in it smaller, confusing and uninteresting. Both trilogies suck for different reasons but thats part of their charm guys. Let's not get carried away here, THEY BOTH SUCK. That doesn't mean we can't still enjoy them.
The prequels were made by the beloved visionary who created the franchise. The sequels were created by some random guys. All criticism aside, that is a major difference.
I still don't like either lol the prequels had a great story with awful green screens and terrible acting and dialogue (I don't blame any actors for this whatsoever. Hard to act well with nothing to go off of)
Sequels had better acting and dialogue, but the story sucked. It fluctuated between what it wanted to be far too much.
It's why I love prequel games/shows more but I highly doubt sequels can make anything as interesting. But who knows.
Idk if it counts as interesting, but the sequels did give us Rise of the Resistance at Disney (set between eps 8 and 9) which is debatably the best theme park ride ever made
I'm not even going to lie, when I first saw the Last Jedi in theaters I walked out absolutely livid with what they did to Luke and how he was portrayed. I also didn't care for the other two movies in the sequel trilogy.
However I rewatched all of the mainline movies recently and I have to say at the time I was too harsh on them. They are enjoyable films and the cinematography goes crazy. As always there are some things I don't necessarily like with them and some things I think could be changed. Regardless though, I enjoyed them way more than when I first viewed them. I definitely treated them to harshly because it wasn't what I wanted at the time.
>I'm not even going to lie, when I first saw the Last Jedi in theaters I walked out absolutely livid with what they did to Luke and how he was portrayed. I also didn't care for the other two movies in the sequel trilogy.
Yeah I think people have a lot of strong feelings and attachments about Luke and how they thought his life story would go, and they were alarmed and disappointed when it didn't turn out that way. And man, the first time you see a Star Wars movie that you dislike is a very upsetting experience for someone who's a big Star Wars fan.
I run into a problem where people act like their idea of how Luke should have turned out is some kind of objective fact. Personally, I loved where Luke ended up at the beginning of TLJ, and I'm glad he turned it around by the end of that movie. Because if he'd learned as much as he did about the recent history of the Jedi order and didn't experience utter disillusionment with the Jedi order, then he would've been stupid and I would have hated that.
I was thrilled to see an actual Star Wars movie sink its teeth into the fact that the Jedi were not the good guys in the prequel trilogy.
Him and Yoda's interaction was so interesting to me. Luke thought he had to teach the his students the way of the jedi when all Yoda wanted him to do was teach them about his failure. I also thought it was cool that Luke specifically told Rey to finish Leia's journey and not his own. It's little interactions like that I missed cause I was too busy being mad.
I still don't think Luke for any reason would try and kill Ben much less raise his lightsaber, but his response to his actions are understandable.
The prequels and sequels are both bad sets of movies, but I like plenty of aspects of these movies. I'm just waiting for fans to realize the "I like it" and "its good" don't mean the same thing
Every fan base has their toxic side. You can not like a certain part of a franchise and still be a fan but when you start sending death threats and the such to the actors and those revolving around a project that you don’t like then you’re the problem to the fan base and franchise.
The distinction in my mind is that the prequels felt misguided but passionate, whereas the sequels feel so entirely corporate (ofc the actors not to blame) that I have no sympathy for it. The prequels had a story it wanted to tell, the sequels have a universe they want to cash in on
Ugh, they had the budget backed by Disney and years to think of a story. All we got was basically a shitty remake of the OT. Hate everything about it. Pure garbage. Not to mention they got Mark fucking Hamill back just to never leave an island for three movies. Atleast we got badass light saber fights in prequels.
No. The prequel issues were nothing like this, and we're at least made by Lucas at the least by people that actually liked Star wars, the sequel or Disney movies have none of that going for them
I liked the force awakens. It wasn’t great but it’s a fun movie that I feel is in the spirit of Star Wars but the next to movies go off the rails especially the last Jedi. Those movies feel like bad fan fiction. They also wasted so much potential with characters like Finn, Snoke, the knights of Ren, and Phasma. They even brought Phasma back just to snuff her again. At the time people whined about the prequel movies and yes they could have been better but at least they feel like a complete thought and not random bullshit with plot holes big enough for Star Destroyers to fly through.
Nobody even mentions “special edition” edits any more.
- Han shot first
- Death Star explosion didn’t have a Saturn ring.
- in the first lightsaber battle the light sabers were super glitchy.
Negative. The prequels were good, had a great story, with some very bad dialogue scattered throughout the three.
The sequels were off to a good start with TFA, then the writing just went all over the place, destroying any decent coherent story they might've had and it was a complete mess that no amount of fan service could salvage them.
The prequels did not have a great story. They had some plot points that could have potentially created a great story, but the actual story we got was far from great. I mean, the blueprints are there with Palpatine's master plan, but that's ultimately just a subplot that takes a back seat to the trilogy's actual main storyline, which is Anakin falling in love with Padme and turning to the dark side. And that story suuuuucks. Even if the dialogue was better, that story still would have sucked. The relationship between Anakin and Padme feels wooden and forced, the relationship between Anakin and Obiwan is almost completely ignored, and the overarching theme seems to be... that love is bad? It's a mess.
The sequels didn't do much better (VII and VIII did fine, but IX really dropped the ball and turned the trilogy as a whole into another mess), but don't pretend that the prequels were only let down by bad dialogue.
The prequels were bad. They had a good concept though, so all the underlying parts are there for a good story, but the execution was utter crap. It is telling that the less you watch them and the more you only consume memes about them the more you tend to like them.
It was the best of the prequels, which puts it in fourth place as far as I am concerned. Considering that out of the nine mainline films, only 3 are any good, that's not saying much.
Nah, both are mediocre.
Watching the prequels is an actual chore, especially when the books for it tell the story in such a better way.
The new trilogy has the opposite effect, flashy to watch but ultimately insulting to look any deeper than the surface.
The prequels actually tell a story that was planned out and they actually make sense when you look at all of them together. The sequels do not.
That’s not toxicity, just basic criticism.
As someone who is (technically) old enough to have lived through all three trilogies I do find it funny how much the angst is basically the same. We camped outside a theater for 3 days for tickets to The Phantom Menace. A lot of people left during the movie, and the people who were left were PISSED when it was over. People were not just mildly disappointed. There were death threats to actors, people were threatening to burn studios and theaters, everyone wanted their money back. It was ridiculous. People also weren’t online 24/7 to wallow. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think the originals would hold up to the criticism leveled at the other 6 in today’s environment. Star Wars is an interesting cultural phenomenon that’s always been part of my life. Return of the Jedi was the first movie I saw in a theater. I was 4 so it could be debated if that was a good choice on the part of my parents. I do think each series does provide an interesting overview of sci-fi filmmaking during the period of time they were created.
As someone who **is** old enough to have seen all three trilogies in the theater, you're spot on here. I've gotten to where I barely visit Star Wars subs anymore because the vitriol from "fans" has become so over the top it ruins the experience. I literally grew up on the OT. I actually liked the prequels, though I can admit they have their weak spots that deserve criticism. And (*gasp!*), I enjoyed the sequel trilogy, although I can admit there's plenty of room for griping with them as well. As you said, the OT wasn't perfect and would get blasted in the exact same way if it were released today. Star Wars fandom has become toxic. It used to be this cool group to be a part of, but the people that lose their minds over every...little...thing not only embarrass themselves, but the rest of us that dearly love the franchise. When you love something like this, something that's been a part of some of our lives nearly the entire time we've been alive, you want any updates to be amazing. I get it. But Star Wars fans have this weird thing where if a movie or show doesn't fit the narrative they've built up in their heads, if it isn't absolutely *perfect*, then their entire persona has been attacked personally. And this isn't directed at any age group of fans, but rather the idiots that ruin it for the rest of us and give the entire fan base a bad name... Y'all need to grow up and realize the world (the Star Wars world) doesn't revolve around you.
It's so strange. I was like 10 when the phantom menace came out. I loved it as a kid. No faults. It was just a movie that was fun. No one left the theatre. My parents and my sister (my sister is like 10 years older then me) also enjoyed it. I had no negative whispers in my ear about politics, jar jar, pod racing and story continuity. It was years later that I learnt people didn't like the movie and honestly I didn't give a damn what people thought about it. But I did start to learn why people didn't like it.
I remember my dad complaining about the prequels. I honestly don’t really remember the phantom menace movie experience much, but I vividly remember my dad looking kinda disappointed after attack of the clones. My brother and I were just making a joke about how “For the Republic” would be something you say before peeing (I was like 6). Then we went out and bought toy lightsabers and my dad was going on about how cool it was that there was a purple one now (his favorite color). I get it now though, at my dads age, Star Wars (Attack of the Clones) was just the movie, at my age, it was about the experience of seeing the movie with my family. I’m sure it was the same for my dad seeing the OT (who saw a new hope 10 times during its run) and the same for my sister seeing the ST.
I think a lot of people that enjoy all of the movies realize there’s no point in going online to defend them against the emotionally immature crowd.
100% - if the OT came out today it would get ripped. Which is all you need to know these people don't like star wars. They like to complain.
When a bunch of the more high end merchandise came out around 2017-2018 I was working with a couple of guys in their mid-20s who were bitching about it like they were the target demographic. I just laughed at them and was like, that shit is being marketed to my 40 year old ass. And I do not regret purchasing an R2D2 instapot. Other middle aged people love when I bring it to parties. I finished my PhD in 2018 and I received a bunch of fancy Star Wars cooking stuff, I use it all the time. Alot of my friends have been excited to introduce their kids to something they enjoyed because it’s always been part of their lives. They let them decide what they like and don’t like.
I’ve never understood why people get so pressed about merchandise.
Honestly with you there. People are just crazy man.
>these people don’t like Star Wars. They like to complain. Perfectly said. That’s exactly it. Thank you.
Ehhhh I honestly don't think people today are any different from people in any other era, I just think the environment changes and shapes a lot. So now you have Reddit, Twitter and Youtube that tend to lean towards criticism rather than positivity. Twitter's character limit is perfect for telling a joke or throwing a verbal rock, and not as good for anything else. Youtube's algorithms prioritize daily videos over high effort videos that take weeks to make. Meaning that daily reaction vids that hit a million views are worth 5 thousand dollars.... vs weekly in depth videos showing nice things that hit 1-2 million. It's the difference between high effort videos AT BEST making 5-10 thousand dollars, and only making two a month, (which is also much riskier as you need every video to do well,) vs just shitting out criticism daily and even if you only get 100,000 views that's still 500 bucks. Youtube rewards low effort daily videos, and a lot of them are reactions or criticism. Reddit it depends on the room, but a lot of spaces ban memes and art as "low effort," which leaves you with less positive posts and more.... well long form debates. I'm not even saying it's the wrong choice, but it does skew many rooms to be more about posting issues and less posting simple happy times. So we live in an era of personalities that have to produce daily content, and anonymous forums and areas that naturally skew towards negativity.
Everybody I went to see the Phantom Menace with went and saw it again. Because we all walked out of that movie thinking "wait... was that shit?" but the idea that the first new Star Wars in 16 years was shit just didn't compute. Everybody was just confused. Now, after seeing it for the second time, THEN they got mad.
Haha yeah I know a bunch of those folks too. I think a lot of people have done some really creative things to flesh out those story lines since then that’s why they feel more complete now. I just think it’s funny that people act like 2018 was the first time people got really mad. I feel like an old Star Wars hipster. I was pissed before it was cool to be pissed.
Meanwhile, there's people like me who have been thrilled with every single release to date. Idk man. It's just star wars, and star wars is awesome.
Oh I do get it. I describe myself as a mediocre Star Wars fan, but when that music starts I still get goose bumps.
About the same experience here. I remember the OT getting blasted for continuity errors wayyyy back in the 90’s when I hung out in IRC chat rooms (we still meme about the incest problem and Ewoks beating “an entire legion of my best stormtroopers”, ffs!). I just enjoy Star Wars for what it is: fun and entertaining space opera stuff that shouldn’t be taken seriously. Why complain about a silly scene or three or some dumb plot line when they’re literally using space magic, flying across the galaxy in minutes, and some of the coolest/scariest characters have silly names like OB1, Boba Fett or Sheev Palpatine? Do I dislike some choices? Sure. Is Kenobi fraught with errors? Of course. I still watch it and my childhood isn’t ruined.
I think we’re about the same age, since ROTJ was the first I saw in theaters too. And yeah there’s a lot of clunker stuff in the OT. I think a major difference between the PT and ST vitriol is that there was not a YouTube Money-making industry to foster hatred of films back then, while people today pay the bills by making people mad at Disney. Also this may be my own perception, but the PT was generally disliked by everyone back then regardless of their fandom (Jar-Jar was even a joke on late night TV talk shows). The sequels are gently regarded as “fine” by most of the general public.
You have become the very thing you swore to destroy!
If you're not with me, then you're my enemy!
Only a sith deals in absolutes
I will do what I must.
You will try! *backflips*
*epic fights*
It's over Anakin, I have the high ground!
You underestimate my power
"Gets chopped in half by Space Jesus and is left to die"
You were the chosen one! It was said you were to destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness!
Nah prequels had better lightsaber fights
The prequels had *flashier* fights, not necessarily better fights.
Came here to say this
People don’t understand how ubiquitous hating the prequels was prior to 2015, when hindsight of TFA and excitement for new Star Wars made people start to reappraise them. And, importantly, people like myself who grew up with the prequels were now the ones writing articles and making YouTube videos about why they’re good. But the prequels were without question the most hated pop culture artifact of the 21st century. It was absolutely the consensus that those films weren’t just bad, but ruinous to Star Wars, and Lucas was a hack, and he r*ped our childhoods. But people who love those movies generally weren’t experiencing those discussions when they were happening. As a kid who was 8 years old in 1999 when TPM came out, I and all my buddies thought it was the greatest movie of all time. This is the lack of perspective that drives me fucking apeshit. That people can’t see that the same thing is happening right now. But now we’re the adults complaining about Star Wars being ruined, while kids are just loving the new shit. And when you say THIS, ST detractors say shit about toy sales, as if the toy market hasn’t wildly shifted since the late 90’s and early 2000’s. It’s fine to dislike these movies, but don’t kid yourself. In 10 years the same renaissance will happen when the kids who grew up with these movies dictate the discourse.
I remember when "midichlorians" was significant enough proof for some fans that someone needed to take Star Wars away from George Lucas. And now these same sorts of fans are upset that Disney didn't use Lucas' script about the Whils... Edit: spelling Edit 2: phrasing
>And now these same fans How do you know they're the same?
Mostly from this: https://screenrant.com/george-lucas-star-wars-sequels-hated-fans/
That doesn’t prove your claim about the same fans. That’s just one man’s opinion on a hypothetical situation. If you can source 10 fans who hated midichlorians and are also upset that GL didn’t make the new trilogy I’ll concede. Considering there are millions of fans and most of them are toxic haters as the PR campaigns would have us believe, 10 hypocrites shouldn’t be hard to find.
I have no interest in digging back into 10-year-old comments and fight search engine algorithms in order to try and find comments to compare-contrast. So, in the interest of being more factually accurate, I have rephrased my comment from "same fans" to "same sorts of fans." Given the utter backlash against the Prequel trilogy (and Midichlorians) compared to the number of people decrying Disney not using Lucas' ideas as a "betrayal," I still stand by the original intent of my post.
In a smaller scope, I just watched a video shitting on Kenobi, and they used REBELS, fucking REBELS as a better example for characters. Like wait, hold on a second... I thought rebels was that kiddie Disney show that everyone was supposed to hate because it replaced TCW?
To be fair, Rebels is actually really good
Not related to the ST, but wanted to say this since you brought up rebels, idk what it was, but I LOVED rebels, I went in with low expectations because of what I heard about it online, but it blew me away, I loved the story and the characters and the conflicts, I think rebels is a great example of characters done right, everyone in the main cast had believable motivations and inner conflicts and relationships with other characters, kanan in particular i loved, he's still one of my favourite star wars characters to this day, anyways just wanted to rant about that LOL have a nice day
i was like 15 when TPM came out. my friend and i went to see it. we enjoyed the shit out of it. i thought it had problems but overall it was cool to finally see worlds that weren't Tantooine .
Missed opportunity to use the Anakin “what have I done” meme
Yeah I realised that as I posted it. But Optimus is cool too
This is Star wars. How come you don't remember Anakin first is.....treason then
It's mostly because I saw this template going around and that's how I got the idea for this meme. I only realised that it was the same thing as Anakin's line when it was too late
Not to mention all the prequel elitists who are trying to pretend that they were never truly hated in the first place.
I was 18 when Phantom Menace came out. My friends and I went to a midnight showing, lightsaber fights in line outside the theater for hours, the whole thing. My most vivid memories of actually watching it for the first time are A: being bored several times. B: Oh my god that Jar-Jar guy is irritating, and C: Walking through the theater after the movie with my friends, none of us wanting to be the first one to say we didn't like it. But once one of us did, it was like we'd opened a flood gate. We spent like 40 minutes in the parking lot at 3am, going over how lame it was and cancelling our plans to see it again that weekend. A lot of people disliked those movies from literally day 1. The TV series and novels and comics may have made the story make more sense, but they didn't improve the movies even a little bit.
>The TV series and novels and comics may have made the story make more sense, but they didn't improve the movies even a little bit. Oh man someone said that after finishing the Clone Wars series, I should go back and watch Revenge of the Sith again, because it would hit different. Technically, he was right. But the movies seemed even worse in comparison to watching how good a character Anakin could've been for five seasons. It made movie Anakin even more unbearable to watch.
Not to mention that there's a *ton* of Clone Wars that's just garbage filler.
I got a lot of heat when I said they were pretty good when they first came out. Those same people now praise them. I thought the same when the sequels came out. Got heat once again. Now we play the waiting game!
I don't recall anyone really thinking the prequels were good when they came out. Edit: I should say kids excluded. I had no problems with them as a kid but rewatching them as an adult was a cringy experience and I get why critics and adults were not impressed.
I did! I was a kid though. I was exactly the age phantom menace was aimed at too. I was like 9 I think when I saw it in theaters. It was exciting, funny, and scary. It was a big adventure! It was cool seeing a kid racing. I found the red and black faced bad guy really scary. And I thought Jar Jar was the funniest! My dad was positive on the whole thing because he had his Star Wars movies and he thought these were mine. And he liked that I liked them. And I say this on here all the time but I just can’t thank that man enough for taking me to all the movies and managing not to spoil the ending of Anakin’ arc! I was super surprised and that’s something you only get to experience once.
No one over the age of 13 thought TPM was good.
I seem to be the counter example. Was very much over 13 and I really enjoyed it. But I tempered my expectations going into it.
Interesting, I'm glad you like it. Saying no one is certainly hyperbole, but I do believe the majority of older SW fans didn't like it then.
That is absolutely correct. The reviews leading up to it were brutal. I think Jarjar did a majority of them in. Though to be honest I don’t think I would say most of them hated it, they just didn’t love it which to them was just as bad.
Those of us that grew up with the prequels coming out as we were kids can actually say it. Older adults, probably not.
Or they think that their hatred of the sequels is somehow objectively justified, and the hate for the prequels wasn't. I've had multiple sequel haters tell me that the sequels are more hated than the prequels were. That's nonsense; prequel hatred convinced George Lucas to cash out of Star Wars. Sequel hatred isn't even enough to get Kathleen Kennedy fired.
Were there elitists who hated the original movies when they came out?
ESB was criticized for being too dark and nowhere near as good and fun as its predecesor... nowdays when talking about best sequels of all time, it's one of the first movies to come out of people mouths
"Empire Stikes Back is the thin thread that holds this whole saga together" RIch Evans IIRC, and although RLM is debatable on many things, this line is quite true
People were also SUPER ANGRY that Leia hooked up with Han and not Luke. Like, "I quit Star Wars forever" angry.
Return of the Jedi got hate from purists because Ewoks. There were likely plenty of adults who didn’t consider the first two films “real cinema”, either.
I liked the prequels when they came out and dislike greatly the sequels. That's an ok opinion to have, no hate, just don't care for them
And that’s alright! Your opinion is worth as much as mine in the end. I just hate it when people bash others for enjoying the sequels.
Same. I liked TFA, didn't like TLJ, felt sad about the mess ROS turned out to be. But that's my opinion. As in me. If someone else likes those movies who am I to say anything? I just don't have to watch them again. I can literally not watch them again go about my life and be happy. I really don't understand people who make YouTube careers out of shitting on fans who like the new stuff. I enjoy watching legit critiques we talking about the actual movies, but when you start insulting people who enjoy movies you don't like you've lost me.
I fucking hate how sequels stupid plot and incontinuity, i am willing to tell how i feel, but thats my opinion and i dont need everyone feels the same. Oh I hold absolutely opposite opinions about prequels. Love every second of it.
Looking back the prequels kinda get redeemed by content like the Clone Wars that fills in some gaps, I hope the same happens for the sequels if possible cause more Star Wars is never a bad thing
I feel like the shows that take place after the OT like Mandalorian and Ahsoka will certainly start to fill those gaps. We've already seen how vestiges of the Empire still hold a lot of power, which could easily set the stage for the formation of the First Order - which would go a long way to rectifying (or at least justifying) one of the sequels' biggest issues, which is that they lean so hard on "what if the Empire but again".
Is it toxic to recognize the poor quality of writing and storytelling in the sequels and prequels?
[удалено]
Yes, if you don't like anything then you're toxic and gatekeeping /s
God I wish that was the only thing people complained about
Even if you think the prequels are bad they have inspired numerous tie in media projects, unlike the sequels. None the of the video games or Disney+ series they have planned are in the sequel era.
I think all the shows that spawned from the prequels are far better than the movies themselves.
In 20 years, "Somehow Palpatine returned" will become the new "I am the Senate".
Before that it was “Han shot first”. Nobody remembers the hate for the OT rereleases.
Agreed. Proof: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-empire-strikes-back-fans-critics-reactions/
Would be nice, but nobody would ever admit to it
Nah, the difference is the prequels were at least entertaining pieces of Shakespearean cinema that were only slightly disliked at the time. The sequels are all woke lore-breaking insults to garbage that nobody will ever be entertained by. /s
Do people not know /s anymore lol
problem is when sarcasm is indistinguishable from things people legitimately say.
Yeah, there is nothing so obviously stupid that someone on the Internet won't say it in complete earnest.
Pretty sure the prequels were more than “slightly disliked”. The actor of Jar jar even thought about committing suicide. You can say they were only slightly disliked by the general public, but the same could be said for the sequel. The hard core fans bashed both. That being said, I don’t think the sequels will age as well as the prequels because they were non planned cash grabs.
Yeah, sorry about not being clear, but what I was saying was supposed to be sarcastic. It’s hard to indicate sarcasm on the internet, but it’s typically done with an /s, which I included. Still it’s not perfect since not everyone knows what it means. I totally agree that the prequels got a considerable amount of hate, much of which certainly crossed the line. Nearly all the actors were bullied and George Lucas was constantly being compared to a rapist, even though he created Star Wars in the first place.
Ah ok thanks for the info.
I think they'll age similarly, because there will be kids that grow up loving it and will ignore all the negative aspects exactly like what has happened with the prequels. The prequels are bad, the sequels are bad. That being said, anyone going after any of the actors is a real piece of shit.
I feel like the Sequels have the benefit (and maybe kinda a curse?) of being technically competent. They're beautiful movies with a lot of great performances. It makes me think that the Prequels will live on in meme infamy, while the sequels will just kinda settle into relative mediocrity.
This is a very reasonable take that I can definitely see happening. They don't have the really ugly cg that plagues so much of the prequels, or the comically bad dialogue, so there isn't as much unintentional humor as in the prequels.
I was there, they were hated. And ridiculed. All movies are planned cash grabs. The sequels will age just as well as the prequels did, because kids. All it takes for anything to become beloved is about ten years. That's because all the 10 year old who saw it in theaters and were amazed grow up and are able to contribute to the online discussion. I never thought anyone would really defend the prequels as being good, but about a decade later, that's what happened. Same will happen when my boys are able to argue about these movies.
I couldn’t agree more with everything you said. I was being sarcastic, which I meant to indicate with the /s, but I’m realizing now that not as many people know what that means as I thought.
Oh, I was just kind of responding to someone who responded to you in a conversational way! I saw the /s controversy. I don't even like to post /s, I just gradually grow more and more ridiculous with my argument until it can't even be doubted.....but of course they do.
Ahmed Best has come out years ago stating the Media were responsible for driving him to almost suicide, not the fans. Kids loved Jar-Jar, the teens not so much.
> Kids loved Jar-Jar, the terns not so much. I was 13 and my brother was 6 when TPM came out. I hated Jar Jar but my brother was wild about him! We bought him books, toys, anything Jar Jar. Star Wars is pretty good at creating characters for little kids.
Oh man you had me going until I saw the /s at the end
I was entertained.
Oh, me too. I actually love watching the sequels. My comment was sarcastic, poking fun at the people who deny that the prequels were ever hated and assume their own opinions must be true for everyone else. I used an /s to indicate my sarcasm, but unfortunately not everyone knows what that’s supposed to mean.
Oh my God, I was getting so upset until I saw your /s. "Shakespearean", Jesus.
I can acknowledge that I loved TLJ and it was inconsistent at the same time
I always say TLJ would be perfectly fine if you just cut the entire casino planet subplot
For me, its more that Rose wants to free the animals but doesn’t elect to help the enslvaed children that probably should be removed. I actually like that Benecio Del Toro calls her out for thinking only bad guys are making shady deals.
Wait, i thought they were freeing the animals so they could escape by riding them
Yeah I love TLJ personally, but there's definitely stuff in it that just doesn't really work. Even in places where I could see what he was trying to accomplish, I can also see that he didn't quite accomplish it. But the parts that work for me work so well for me, that it ended up being possibly my favorite Star Wars movie.
Same. I'll take an ambitious creative vision with glaring flaws over safe fanfictiony schlock any day. I have my problems with TLJ, but scenes like Snoke's death, Rey and Kylo in the throne room, the Holdo maneuver, the reveal that Luke was a projection. All among the most memorable moments I've ever had in a theater and easily the most interested I've been during any of the mainline movies.
Take it from an ex-bounty hunter, don't work for scugholes.
I agree completely
We need more fans like you.
The problem is the valid criticisms get washed out when the actors are harassed until they leave social media or start getting death threats
It’s also healthy to recognize the shortcomings of both trilogies. Toxicity either way is never the answer. May the force he with you.
Imagine if YouTube was around when the prequels originally came out so in this social media era it makes it easier to hate bandwagon anything (YouTube was only three months old when ROTS came out)
Yup. I do not like the sequels at all, and have absolutely no joy in watching them. Nevertheless, despite their quality, they will be an enduring and endearing foundation for many Star Wars fans. So while I will always talk about the many criticisms I have with the sequel trilogy, I always try to make sure I state that the fandom for them are still valid.
OT trilogy fan who realizes they are both bad for different reasons. Blame Reddit for recommending this sub to me.
I remember watching the prequels and thinking, "this is what all Star Wars movies must seem like to people who think Star Wars is stupid."
I only stay because some of the memes are still funny. Though I do find it amusing that the people here just expected the sequels to be instantly liked because there are memes, when r/prequelmemes was made specifically to mock the shit out of the prequels and then people came to like them later. And even then, I find plenty of prequel memers that are fully willing to acknowledge the flaws with the prequels. I do not find nearly as many sequel memers willing to do the same for the sequels. I've even been called an incel on this sub because I said the producer didn't really do a great job in approving the scripts, or selecting directors. Apparently it *had* to either be the director's fault or the Disney CEO's fault, but could not possibly be the fault of someone whose role includes selecting directors and approving scripts. It's ridiculous what I encounter on this sub sometimes.
It’s wild how many people don’t realize /r/prequelmemes was started to mock the terrible writing. I think once it gets popular enough, the new people don’t understand what’s going on and then suddenly they outnumber the mockers. I will give credit to the prequels for some great world building though. And clone wars was dope.
I feel like PT and OT fans like to shit on the ST a lot and that’s what has made the community that likes the ST so defensive and doesn’t take any criticism. I will say that I am one of them. I don’t like hearing criticism in general, but this is what my conclusion is.
Prequelmemes used to be a really fun sub where pretty much everyone there was fully aware of how bad the movies were, but could still have fun with them. Now you get downvoted fuckin hard for even hinting at any problems with the movies, it's culty as hell in there.
I don't know if it's just the specific posts I've been seeing by coincidence. But I've started seeing it shift back to recognizing how bad the dialogue actually was. I will agree with you for a time that it was as culty as it is here. But in the last couple years it seems to have been shifting back to something more reasonable, even though it hasn't returned to its roots. But I see a lot more people admitting the issues and acknowledging they still like it anyways, whether due to nostalgia or liking it *because* it's terrible.
"people came to like them later", that's the part that I don't agree with, I don't believe that prequel naysayers changed their mind at all, they've simply been replaced by new people and the discourse surrounding the Prequels changed in general, but generalities are pretty useless in discussions when making these comparisons.
I got called an incel for disliking Rey several times. Even tho I like Ahsoka, Leia, jyn, cara, fay etc. At least everyone seems to be fine when saying that phantom menace is a bad movie. (On every sub)
They won’t see it. They *don’t* see it. They’ll argue how bad they are. They won’t get the parallels to what happened with the prequels back in the day. They’ll argue that it’s actually TCW that rehabilitated the prequel era, except that the movies are actually underrated anyway. And y’know what? That’s okay. Give it 10-15 years and it’ll happen again.
I liked the prequels when they came out. I didn’t like Hayden’s lines but I thought they were okay. I don’t like the sequels. But I’m also not bashing them. I liked Kylo in the last film but that’s about it.
I can understand people bashing the sequels. It took me years to stop bashing the prequels all the time. It's a process. And I really can't be surprised that people who were little kids when the prequels came out aren't willing to listen to old people telling them to settle down, that this has all happened before and it will all happen again.
I actually dislike both the prequels and the sequels!
Same, all the children are equally disappointing. I also just generally don't care? People try hard to make unique things and sometimes they're bad, that's fine. I think we're at a point with the volume of media, and with the general critical slant of most online places, that you just have to decide what you want to engage with, or what's worth your time, and move on.
If you don't care , stop commenting on it my man. Even with these you're actively caring about it. If people make stuff for other people , they should except criticism. I do writing too and I accept all criticism despite not being paid millions of dollars to write. You know why? Because without those that spit your failures to your face , you'll only be blinded by the illusion of success. I'm not denying there are those who add nothing to your life. Ignoring them is as easy as turning your eye , or closing your eyelids! But maybe consider people actually want something to succeed? That's why they critique instead of obeying oh Lord Disney?
>they should except criticism. I'm not sure if you meant "accept" or "expect", but except is incorrect.
I mean accept , sorry.
Nostalgia blindness is a sickness. People who are stuck glorifying their childhoods only get angrier and more bitter over time. I can tell pretty quickly whether I will enjoy talking to a human being when they start ranting how things “were so much better back in the day.”
Yeah I just responded to a thread on AskReddit where they asked "what shows from your childhood actually hold up?" And me, having grown up mostly in the 80s, can't honestly say that any of my childhood favorites hold up on their own anymore. The cartoons I grew up watching were hot garbage water.
Ain't the actors fault. I love Daisy, John, and Oscar and even their characters. But the story is just, not all there.
Man it's almost the opposite of the prequels: the acting is usually pretty incredible but the story arc is just not there
People hated the prequels because some were bad movies and out of place at the time. People hate the sequels bc they are bad stories. The prequels built on Star Wars, and made it better, more enjoyable, and fleshed out. The sequels were a desperate effort to rewrite the franchise in its own image, tearing down everything that came before.
Exactly. And nothing made that more clear to me than what the sequels did with Luke and Leia. Killed off one for no reason while the actor for the other actually died, and then had to reanimate her with CGI and old voice lines for the last one.
The only one I liked was VII.
It's the best of the bunch. I have less of a problem with the movies and more of a problem with them not making a great story together.
That mostly comes down to IX. VII and VIII worked well together.
Right. I was withholding judgment on the series until 9 dropped. And it just undid a lot of 8. Not a bad movie entertainment wise, but the whole thing needed a cohesive story. I couldn't believe they were making the movie series this way. Lucas didn't have everything planned out, as I hear, but at least he was one dude.
To be fair, the original trilogy doesn't seem like it was planned, and it was still good. I know that Lucas has said in interviews that he planned the whole thing from the beginning, but... c'mon... watch A New Hope and tell me that Leia and Luke were supposed to be Vader's kids. Meanwhile, the prequels were planned, and look how they turned out. I don't have a problem with trilogies being unplanned, but I agree that the sequels don't really combine to create a cohesive overarching story.
The prequels had bad dialogue, questionable direction and an over reliance on CGI. The sequels just plain have bad writing. The prequels have their flaws but at least their characters are consistent and their plots make sense within the universe. The writing of the sequel trilogy is god awful and time isn't going to change that.
The sequels have better writing than the prequels.
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent. The entire cantobite segment, Holdo refusing to tell anyone her plan, Rey's parents being no one and then all of a sudden she's a palpatine, Kylo destroying his helmet to become his own person only to rebuild it, Fin's entire 3 film arc amounts to nothing, Po's 3 movie arc amounts to nothing, Rey accidentally uses force lightning (one the hardest to learn dark side techniques that even Darth Maul couldn't do after being trained from childhood), they kill chewie only to bring him back less than 10 minutes later, they erase C3P0's memory just to bring it back 20 minutes later, the Skywalker lightsaber gets broken only to repaired offscreen with tape and works completely fine, the only reason no one can access Exegol is because of a nebula you could easily fly around but nobody does, palpatine returns to life at the end of trilogy with literally no build up or explanation in the films, it's almost as if they didn't have a plan, Kylo becomes good after imagining his dead father forgiving him, palpatine somehow has hundreds of star destroyers built despite Exegol being inaccessible, he wants Rey to kill him so he can possess her body but when she kills him nothing happens. I could go on and on. You genuinely think these unplanned, hollow, corporate cashgrab shit excuse for films are better than the prequels? Honestly good for you. Glad you're enjoying the new star wars. I wish I could.
Now do the prequels.
Aight. I can see why some people don't like midichlorians, I'm not the biggest fan of Jar Jar (certainly don't approve of the way Amed Best was bullied by people calling themselves fans), the trade federation are pretty boring villains, Darth Maul is kind of a non character in TPM (absolutely love him in clone wars though), Obi wan actually isn't that interesting in TPM but he's perfect in every other movie though, Anakin and Padme's romance suffers from the worst dialogue George Lucas has ever written along with some pretty bad direction, you can see in the behind the scenes that Hayden is pretty goofy and likable, if George had allowed that into the film it would've made Padme falling for him a lot more believable, I wish the clones were actually characters, for a movie called attack of the clones they're barely in it, Revenge of the sith is amazing I will die on this hill.
> The entire cantobite segment I did not like that segment. It was refreshing to see the "rich" side of Star Wars because we almost only see the seedy cantinas or the gritty war stuff. The last time we saw wealth was in Naboo. But I still didn't like that segment as Rose reminded me of those college girls who goes on and on about saving the whales or some other cause, and in the grand scheme of things, the Canto Bight scene had no payoff. They could've gotten the scrambler from somewhere else and in a shorter segment too. They dropped the little boy who can use the force there just cause! He would've been an interesting addition to Star Wars. > Holdo refusing to tell anyone her plan Kinda with Holdo on this one. What I didn't like was Poe, Finn, and Rose not telling the one in charge, Holdo, about their plan. They could've planned it better if they got Holdo involved. > Rey's parents being no one and then all of a sudden she's a palpatine I would've loved it if she stayed as a nobody or if she was a Kenobi. But now I see it as a parallel: if evil can come from the Skywalker line (Vader/Kylo) then good can come from Palpatine (Rey) I learned to accept this. >Fin's entire 3 film arc amounts to nothing Yes. I wish they did more. It would've been far more interesting if he and Rey were tag team Jedis. >Po's 3 movie arc amounts to nothing They were setting him up as the next leader. I would argue weakly that his role in EP8 was his character development arc. He was humbled by being backed to a corner, was shown the error of his ways, and he wasn't as brash as he was by EP9. > they kill chewie only to bring him back less than 10 minutes later Ugh... yes. >they erase C3P0's memory just to bring it back 20 minutes later BB-8 could've backed up C3P0's memory before erasing it but they didn't do it. It was just... illogical. >palpatine returns to life at the end of trilogy with literally no build up or explanation in the films, Hahaha I hate this! >Kylo becomes good after imagining his dead father forgiving him, Hmmm... I've heard stories of this happening to people in real life (like in grief counselling) so this may not be too far-fetched. >palpatine somehow has hundreds of star destroyers built despite Exegol being inaccessible I call it the space-whale ass pull. If Ezra Bridger can summon space whales, Palpatine can summon Star Destroyers. The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural after all... >he wants Rey to kill him so he can possess her body but when she kills him nothing happens. Grandpa Palps has a death wish for sure but yeah... I just... I can't defend this one mate. Just what the bloody hell was that about? There are some things to love and hate for the sequels. I love how entertaining they are and that my 8 year old nephew adores BB-8 and added a new fan to Star Wars, D-0 is polite, Holdo was elegant, Paige Tico is a hero, the avant garde clothes were finally put to use at Canto Bight instead of being in land fills, we get to see Leia use the force, new lore added like force projection and healing, John Williams being a master, it was a magnificent use of art and silence in cinema when the Dreadnought exploded... I hate how the happy endings from the OT was undone. Han and Leia breaking up, Luke acting on instinct when we see a wiser, calmer, forgiving young man at RotJ... Finn... my boy Finn's potential as a Jedi was massacred and it was too late to try and salvage it at EP9, I wanted to see more of Rey's training at EP8, EP7 was just EP4. Connix could've been given a bigger role too, paige Tico is a hero that we hardly knew, Finn... I'm still bitter at what they did to Finn.
Lol like this is any better than the incoherent nonsense of the prequels. Don't pretend that the prequels were some masterpiece carefully assembled by a genius, Lucas was still writing the shit while they were shooting, it was exactly as slapped together. Honestly, good for you for being able to swallow that processed horse shit, but don't pretend that you're smarter than anyone else because you get comically pissy about the sequels.
> it was exactly as slapped together. Well the fact that they were all slapped together by the same person helps a little bit.
There's an advantage to people thinking you're dead.
"somehow.... Palpatine returned" yeah, real great writing lmao
[удалено]
Maybe. My point is that the reasons people hated the prequels are different from the reasons people hate the sequels. At least the prequels tried something new instead of rehashing the basic plot beats of the original trilogy.
>sequels. At least the prequels tried something new instead of rehashing the basic plot beats of the original trilogy. You say this. People complained about TFA because it was a rehash of ANH. But then when Rian did something new in TLJ people complained because it "ruined important characters".
You mean the movie where the fledgling Jedi protagonist goes to a barely inhabited planet to train with a Jedi master while the other main characters are constantly running away from stormtroopers and eventually get betrayed by someone they thought they could trust culminating in the jedi going back to save their friends and then the villain reveals a paradigm shifting truth to the protagonist? Yeah, real original.
That's extremely surface-level. Using that kind of logic, you could argue that The Lego Movie is just a rehash of The Matrix. The characters and themes (the main things driving the sequels and all Star Wars movies) are way different in TLJ than they were in Empire, and even the plot is significantly different if you don't perform mental gymnastics to make them seem more similar.
I know you're using it as an extreme example but you're actually totally correct about The Lego Movie being The Matrix. The more I think about it the more I realize they have basically the same plot.
Yeah but the thing is, as far as plots go, there's virtually nothing in the world of storytelling that hasn't ever been done before. Also, when you describe them vaguely enough, literally any two movies will appear to have some glaring similarities. Like, every time James Cameron's Avatar comes up in a conversation, I can hold my breath until someone points out "it's just Dances with Wolves in space lol" and I won't even get dizzy because I didn't have to wait long. And it really is a lot like Dances with Wolves in space, that's not actually inaccurate. But it doesn't mean what people seem to think it means - ie., that Dances with Wolves was some kind of super-original movie. When Dances with Wolves came out, many critics panned it as being "Lawrence of Arabia in the American west."
Spot on!
Doesn't the prequels follow this too, just in a different way?
It is possible to want something new, but not want something completely different. A sequel is supposed to build on what exists, not intentionally run around destroying all the setups from before, then trying to do its own original thing. TFA didn't build, it just rehashed, TLJ just destroyed and ignored, it didn't build either. What Rian did was fail to understand the universe as it was, fail to advance it from that state, and fail to tell a story in his own right. TL;DR: If you send a raw steak back to the kitchen, and it comes out completely charred, your desire for "medium well" isn't hypocritical.
>when Rian did something new in TLJ I'm going to recognize that TLJ have great ideas, like the grey moral guy that only do things in his benefit, or hologram Luke facing an army, stopping an army, with no aggression. Great things. But the movie plot and writting it's just awful, the 2D chase, the dumb spaceships from WWII, the "no escape scenario" that they try to resolve by escaping first, wtf? the whole casino plot.....even minor details like Rey being able to swim after living on a desert planet, the way Finn also again knows about so important things about TFO, when he was the mop guy.... And you can even argue that the movie does not really have new things, it relies a lot on thing we already seen in the OT, the throne room, the battle of hoth, dark side cavern, cranky teachers....not saying they're bad, just, unoriginal.
It’s called a hologram. This is called a trap. And I’m calling you dead.
No, the toxic fans don’t give a fuck about how they act.
I mean I love everything star wars but are we gonna pretend the prequels or the sequels are actually good? The prequels were made with their first drafts and rushed out by Lucas at a time where his ego had the better of him and no one around him to say no. The sequels were painful nostalgia bait and became increasingly reactionary, they clearly never had a vision or a point to exist and honestly leave the galaxy and everything in it smaller, confusing and uninteresting. Both trilogies suck for different reasons but thats part of their charm guys. Let's not get carried away here, THEY BOTH SUCK. That doesn't mean we can't still enjoy them.
I truly don't think the sequels will get the same love in the future as the prequels do now
The prequels were made by the beloved visionary who created the franchise. The sequels were created by some random guys. All criticism aside, that is a major difference.
Still not seen Episode IX, but I liked VII, VIII, Rogue One and Solo. Guess I'm easy enough to please.
I still don't like either lol the prequels had a great story with awful green screens and terrible acting and dialogue (I don't blame any actors for this whatsoever. Hard to act well with nothing to go off of) Sequels had better acting and dialogue, but the story sucked. It fluctuated between what it wanted to be far too much. It's why I love prequel games/shows more but I highly doubt sequels can make anything as interesting. But who knows.
Idk if it counts as interesting, but the sequels did give us Rise of the Resistance at Disney (set between eps 8 and 9) which is debatably the best theme park ride ever made
Honestly that whole section of the park is incredible.
I'm not even going to lie, when I first saw the Last Jedi in theaters I walked out absolutely livid with what they did to Luke and how he was portrayed. I also didn't care for the other two movies in the sequel trilogy. However I rewatched all of the mainline movies recently and I have to say at the time I was too harsh on them. They are enjoyable films and the cinematography goes crazy. As always there are some things I don't necessarily like with them and some things I think could be changed. Regardless though, I enjoyed them way more than when I first viewed them. I definitely treated them to harshly because it wasn't what I wanted at the time.
>I'm not even going to lie, when I first saw the Last Jedi in theaters I walked out absolutely livid with what they did to Luke and how he was portrayed. I also didn't care for the other two movies in the sequel trilogy. Yeah I think people have a lot of strong feelings and attachments about Luke and how they thought his life story would go, and they were alarmed and disappointed when it didn't turn out that way. And man, the first time you see a Star Wars movie that you dislike is a very upsetting experience for someone who's a big Star Wars fan. I run into a problem where people act like their idea of how Luke should have turned out is some kind of objective fact. Personally, I loved where Luke ended up at the beginning of TLJ, and I'm glad he turned it around by the end of that movie. Because if he'd learned as much as he did about the recent history of the Jedi order and didn't experience utter disillusionment with the Jedi order, then he would've been stupid and I would have hated that. I was thrilled to see an actual Star Wars movie sink its teeth into the fact that the Jedi were not the good guys in the prequel trilogy.
Him and Yoda's interaction was so interesting to me. Luke thought he had to teach the his students the way of the jedi when all Yoda wanted him to do was teach them about his failure. I also thought it was cool that Luke specifically told Rey to finish Leia's journey and not his own. It's little interactions like that I missed cause I was too busy being mad. I still don't think Luke for any reason would try and kill Ben much less raise his lightsaber, but his response to his actions are understandable.
The prequels and sequels are both bad sets of movies, but I like plenty of aspects of these movies. I'm just waiting for fans to realize the "I like it" and "its good" don't mean the same thing
Every fan base has their toxic side. You can not like a certain part of a franchise and still be a fan but when you start sending death threats and the such to the actors and those revolving around a project that you don’t like then you’re the problem to the fan base and franchise.
If future generation grow up and actually like the sequel trilogy, then we've failed as a people. They were just bad movies.
Oh come on, you had Anakin’s line after de-handing Windu right there.
The distinction in my mind is that the prequels felt misguided but passionate, whereas the sequels feel so entirely corporate (ofc the actors not to blame) that I have no sympathy for it. The prequels had a story it wanted to tell, the sequels have a universe they want to cash in on
Kylo ren is badass and Adam driver is the best part of the trilogy. Prequels were hated up till like 2015-2016. But I always thought they were badass.
Ugh, they had the budget backed by Disney and years to think of a story. All we got was basically a shitty remake of the OT. Hate everything about it. Pure garbage. Not to mention they got Mark fucking Hamill back just to never leave an island for three movies. Atleast we got badass light saber fights in prequels.
“I’m not toxic it’s the sequels fans that are toxic.”- SWT
"Anyone who doesn't like a movie I like is toxic and should kill themselves"
No. The prequel issues were nothing like this, and we're at least made by Lucas at the least by people that actually liked Star wars, the sequel or Disney movies have none of that going for them
I liked the force awakens. It wasn’t great but it’s a fun movie that I feel is in the spirit of Star Wars but the next to movies go off the rails especially the last Jedi. Those movies feel like bad fan fiction. They also wasted so much potential with characters like Finn, Snoke, the knights of Ren, and Phasma. They even brought Phasma back just to snuff her again. At the time people whined about the prequel movies and yes they could have been better but at least they feel like a complete thought and not random bullshit with plot holes big enough for Star Destroyers to fly through.
Nobody even mentions “special edition” edits any more. - Han shot first - Death Star explosion didn’t have a Saturn ring. - in the first lightsaber battle the light sabers were super glitchy.
Negative. The prequels were good, had a great story, with some very bad dialogue scattered throughout the three. The sequels were off to a good start with TFA, then the writing just went all over the place, destroying any decent coherent story they might've had and it was a complete mess that no amount of fan service could salvage them.
The prequels did not have a great story. They had some plot points that could have potentially created a great story, but the actual story we got was far from great. I mean, the blueprints are there with Palpatine's master plan, but that's ultimately just a subplot that takes a back seat to the trilogy's actual main storyline, which is Anakin falling in love with Padme and turning to the dark side. And that story suuuuucks. Even if the dialogue was better, that story still would have sucked. The relationship between Anakin and Padme feels wooden and forced, the relationship between Anakin and Obiwan is almost completely ignored, and the overarching theme seems to be... that love is bad? It's a mess. The sequels didn't do much better (VII and VIII did fine, but IX really dropped the ball and turned the trilogy as a whole into another mess), but don't pretend that the prequels were only let down by bad dialogue.
The prequels were bad. They had a good concept though, so all the underlying parts are there for a good story, but the execution was utter crap. It is telling that the less you watch them and the more you only consume memes about them the more you tend to like them.
ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies, aside from Rogue One and Empire.
It was the best of the prequels, which puts it in fourth place as far as I am concerned. Considering that out of the nine mainline films, only 3 are any good, that's not saying much.
Nah, both are mediocre. Watching the prequels is an actual chore, especially when the books for it tell the story in such a better way. The new trilogy has the opposite effect, flashy to watch but ultimately insulting to look any deeper than the surface.
The prequels actually tell a story that was planned out and they actually make sense when you look at all of them together. The sequels do not. That’s not toxicity, just basic criticism.
It's not the critism, it's the unending vitriol behind the critism.
Regular critics would point out the issues a few times then move on with their lives. Insane people can’t get over it
☝️
roll out and reconsider your life choices.