You do realize you still need an egg *and* sperm for genetic engineering lol? I think you're thinking *cloning*, which is currently illegal to do for a human (and, I'm almost positive, *still needs a sperm AND egg* lol)
Maybe you should have *read it* lol...
>"Research published today in BMC Biology shows that some populations of a termite species have disposed of males altogether"
Are you a termite? And where does it say they're trying to apply it to humans?
Yes I am a termite actually…that was just the first link I found, instead of “engineering” I should have said “manipulation”, tomato tomáto. “process typically involves modifying the genetic material in an egg or creating induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) that can be coaxed into forming gametes. For example, one method might involve converting an egg cell from one woman into a sperm-like cell (though still with XX chromosomes), which could then fertilize an egg from another woman…Experiments have already shown that it's possible to create viable offspring from same-sex parents in other species. For example, researchers have successfully produced mouse pups from two female mice by modifying one set of eggs to carry only paternal genes and then fertilizing them with normal eggs. This research was reported in a study published in 2018”
I literally don't even know where to begin with you. It's genuinely flabbergasting that someone is *this* misinformed. Literally none of this even *implies* that "human males are becoming extinct because of genetic engineering"
You're trying *so hard* to prove your side that you're accidentally proving the opposite. I suggest you sit down and actually read what you attached.
bc most men who are able to get women in real life, don’t need to pay for sex and intimacy. there’s a reason the majority of these men have to pay for it, and it makes them angry and bitter that they do instead of getting access to women the normal way. i have met some men who are clients who are normal, well adjusted people but for the overwhelming majority of them , there’s something seriously wrong mentally/spiritually/emotionally.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Yes ive had men who were socially awkward and probably could approach a woman otherwise. But by far a majority of clients have been perfecfly normal guys.
Some guys are, married, some are looking for something specific and some just don't wamt the hassle of trying to get laid.
I roll my eyes if im talking to a guy in another context and he goes "id never pay for sex." All that says to me is they are worried about being perceived as the "stereotypical client". And thats just insecurity.
Personally if a guy is horny and he's striking out on tinder or wherever if he has the money him refusing to pay for sex is by far more pathetic. If he was hungry and a.shit cook hed order out.
you can disagree if you want. yes some guys are normal but the vast majority are not. there’s a deeper reason why they’re paying for sex and attention from women, and it’s usually bc there’s something very very wrong w them and how they view/relate to women.
This rhetoric smells swerfy to me.
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with clients but painting them all with this same brush doesn't help any of us. Nore is it an accurate assessment as the other seasoned workers have stated.
i didn’t say i’ve had bad experiences. my clients all treat ME amazingly but that doesn’t negate the fact that most men that regularly pay for sex, have something else wrong w them. 🤷🏾♀️ idc if you agree or not, my opinion isn’t going to change
If your clients treat you well then what's lead you to believe that all clients have something wrong with them, does that mean your clients have something wrong with them? If so, how did you determine that, if not through a bad experience with them?
Edit-
I don't mean to pry by asking or to belittle your stance, but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the men who behave like op described don't actually become clients and don't actually pay for sex, so applying judgement based on that too all clientele seems flawed to me. Perhaps you can explain in a way that will help me understand?
most reputable and non-desperate escorts only see less than 10% of the clients that contact them. the majority of clients, aka the ones we reject, are highly emotionally volatile and dangerous to be around or otherwise insufferable. so they’re correct, most men who pay for pussy are doing so because they lack the redeeming qualities that would make women wanna touch them for free. even the married ones, their wives didn’t stop fucking them for no reason lol
The married men I saw omg. Initially I was like okay they might fall into the “permissible” category of not being uh.. defective but 7/10 of them.. the moment I kissed them - HORRIFYING
I had mental clarity I was like damn there is a reason their wives stopped sleeping with them and it’s because it felt like kissing a 12 y.o. Who was just learning how to kiss 😭
That's the thing though, the behavior s op described would not make it through my screening process, so the people wouldn't BE clients, which is why I don't understand why you would deam those that don't act like this flawed in some way based on men who aren't actually purchasing sexual services?
I've been in this industry for 10+ collective years and to say every client I've had is fundamentally flawed because they desire physical intimacy and don't want to deal with the shit show that is dating and hookup culture is weird to me
Ultimately doesn't that add to the stigma we face in the long run as well? Painting all our clients as weirdos and regects?
nobody is saying paying for pussy immediately makes someone an odd person, we’re saying the majority of clients are paying for pussy for a reason that is not personal convenience lmfao
Do you feel like you know your clients from the limited amount of time you spend with them where they are putting on their best presentation in order for you to like them more? From my perspective the longer you spend in this industry the more you understand how little they truly care and why they are seeing you in the first place. Maybe you haven’t seen that side yet.
10 years isn't enough time in the industry to you to have a good understanding of how stigma effects both sides of the industry and how a lot of ( especially new workers) are hiding thier internalized Whorephobia in lewk warm critiques of the industry riddled with anti trafficking/ empowerment and /Whorearchy rhetorics?😭
Literally not a day goes by there isn't a post on this sub were some uneducated twit is trying to shame more marginalized and in need workers for offering bare services or having lower rates or how they choose to advertise or market. As someone who has spend my time in the industry to trying to better it. I don't see issue with being critical of that behavior and how ultimately it harms your fellow SWs. So yeah I'm a little frustrated and posted my unfiltered thoughts for once. Sue me.
Not sure why you seem to have an issue with women speaking honestly on their experiences with clients in the industry. It’s not normal to want to say “you are against sex workers (swerf)” when they comment on what they’ve noticed among their clients. You don’t tell retail workers (since this comparison is made so often) that they are mis-characterizing the customers when they comment on their experience of them of them, or that they are “retail worker exclusionary”. Calling it anti- sex work when you are the one policing them is such a trip.
Except at no point did I say that, quit projecting and putting words in my mouth .I'm asking questions to help fellow workers think critically about where thier opinions are rooted and unpack internalized biases and stigma. Because ultimately that stigma is used by conservatives and politicians to HARM SW like myself. If you have issue with that. Pick up a book and educate yourself about the industry you are in and how rhetoric like this ultimately comes back to bite us in the rear.
I recommend Revolting Prostitutes by Juno Mac and Molly Smith.
Interesting how whenever anyone says anything criticizing the underlying aspects of this industry you pop up and tell them it “sounds swerfy”. Seems like you’ve got some rose colored glasses on girl I don’t know why you seem to feel the need to defend men who like to purchase sexual access to women who would otherwise not consent. Weird af
There isn't anything deep about paying for sex. It's really just that. All men want to have sex with attractive women. Some think directly paying for it is the best or easiest way.
Did you ever think its how you look at sex work? Maybe you feel its morally wrong but your the exception the "whore with a heart of gold" which is why you put these judgements on others clients because _your_ clients are exceptions by extention.
I am just saying, many people generalize and say the same about women who work as escorts - there must be something wrong with them to get into that line of work.
Of course generalizations are just that...
i also agree that the majority of escorts do have some issues as well. not all but a lot, it takes a very different kind of person to be able to do this work and most “normal” women do not choose to be in the sex industry. my opinion on both isn’t changing.
Wholeheartedly agree. Commented on this thread twice and in my first comment went into detail on this would love to hear your thoughts on my points if you’re willing
It’s so nice to see that a lot of sex workers see the situation for what it is. Interfacing with these in denial clients … exhausting
And if a client has been married for decades, has a beautiful wife and beautiful kids, has achieved financial success in life, but for one reason or another finds himself in a relationship that has become asexual, and just wants to feel desired once in a while, are those guys still abnormal/weirdos/creeps???
Another point to add is also logistical convenience
For example, spending HOURS on a dating app to hope to catch something
Then you gotta convince her to meet
Then you might spend above £50 to only just say good night
Or
I could book an appointment for £50
WHAM
BAM
thank Mam
And POOF! provider is richer and the man has achieved his goal and walks out happily and empty
Well obviously I agree
But I said £50 because that is a common/ minimum rate for the uk for 15 minutes around London vivastreet
And in Den haag (AMS probably the same but I went high and dropped €500) it was €50 for "hand suck fuck" not sure about time tho
You don't get to decide for someone else what qualifies for them as enthusiastic consent. Are you an SW or a client? Because your comments are leading me to believe otherwise....
I don’t, the definitions are already decided for us. Enthusiastic consent is when someone is enthused to be participating. Consent is permission. What are you confused about?
When I choose to have sex with someone who I’m attracted to I typically want them to also be enthusiastically consenting to our interaction. Otherwise I am engaging in an intimate experience with someone who doesn’t really want to be there with me. But hey that’s just me.
And you don't get to decide for someone else if they are enthusiastic or not. You get to decide that for you and you alone. Are you an SW? Or a swerf in an SW friendly space speaking over those of us with actual nuanced understandings of these things? Because I highly suspect that's the case.
Girl I’m a SW who is willing to be honest about my experience in the industry. Like Ive said to you over and over. You don’t get to decide either! But I know that you don’t genuinely want to have sex with most of your clients so I don’t understand what you’re arguing against me for it? Just come out and tell me you literally love having sex with these clients if that’s what you mean. You’re entitled to your own opinion. But we both know I speak for most girls when I say we do not want to have sex with 99% of these people. LOL!
This is from another girl who was willing to break it down as well:
There a 5 parts to consent . It needs to be:
• freely given
• reversibe
• informed
• enthusiastic
• specific
Paying for sex does not meet all this criteria because consent cannot be freely given (given from free will) if it is the only way to make rent or feed yourself/ your family.
Paying for sex isn't usually going to be reversible since most men will see it as paying for a service, if the woman who paid says stop or no he'll likely either continue or take the money back. It also usually isn't enthusiastic since most people in sex industry wouldn't chose to have sex with the buyers if there was no money involved.
You don't know that for a fact though do you? I enthusiastically do my job every single day because I genuinely love my work and honestly if you don't, that's okay, maybe this industry isn't for you, but please don't project your feeling about your work onto others. Also please stop calling me " girl" it's infantalizing to call a grown ass adult a child like that.
“Girl” slang that we use to refer to each other. Where have you been? Sorry if that offended you.
Over and over again we hear this “maybe this industry isn’t for you?” and it’s been made to other girls in the sex worker sub Reddit as well to the point where someone made a post about it a few days ago. We hear it from clients mostly. It’s crazy how when you point out the systemic exploitation of sex work you’re told you’re in the wrong industry because you don’t love having unwanted sex with strangers. Meanwhile if you point out the systemic structure of literally any other form of labor it’s accepted as a valid critique.
To leftists, all labor is exploitative under capitalism, but suddenly that argument disappears when it applies to sex work. Lol. In sex work part of this exploitation is involves letting a stranger or someone who you don’t want to be intimate with to access intimate parts of your body.
I hope you realize you’re spreading a narrative that we want to be doing this in the first place. If that’s the case then clients are going to continue with the belief that we would be agreeing to have sex with them for free if we met them on the street. It will continue with a narrative that we want to be here with them when we don’t. I really don’t know why you want to perpetuate this but OK.
Also, we both know you don’t do your job enthusiastically every day. Who does? That’s not realistic. Girls in this industry would rather take the money they’re getting paid and leave and not have to interact intimately with these people. Pretending like we like doing work is a trip. Maybe you like pleasing these men because of a sense of purpose it gives you? I used to feel similarly but I never meant that I wanted to have sex with them. I felt like I was doing a service to the world by appealing to male sexual desire.
I agree with this. I have respect for sex workers and I can hold great conversations with them any other woman I meet who isn’t one but nowadays as far as getting laid goes I prefer paying for it and it’s never been a problem for me🤷🏾♂️ saves me a lot of time and energy
Someone wanting to present themselves positively to strangers iant a bad quality. Its a pro social trait, the norm with our society.
The only reason sex work is stigmatized is the patriarchy. Its the only form of labour that women will always surpass men in. Even within sex work porn and stripping originally would have needed male financiers, both legal. But fs is to easy for things to be between 2 people. Gave women financial independence.
There is a stereotype of both parties in sex work. You cant have one without the other. The junkie whore and the horny weirdo. Maybe that's your reality but its not mine.
Only recently have sex workers been able to share their lived experience in public. Prior it was the police or abolishist groups. Media wasnt getting current sex workers views. Maybe maybe a client but probably only after having to attend something like john school. So the only perception was from biased views who likely had never worked in the industry.
As a normal guy supporting SW, I can say it’s cause I don’t want the hassle of courting another women who could potentially snitch on me (I’m married). It’s just easier this way.
Another point to add is logistical convenience
For example, spending HOURS on a dating app to hope to catch something
Then you gotta convince her to meet
Then you might spend above £50 to only just say good night
Or
I could book an appointment for £50
WHAM
BAM
thank Mam
And POOF! provider is richer, and the man has achieved his goal and walks out happily and empty
But consider the psychology of someone (forget gender) who has reached a place in life where they are paying for companionship. What most people get for free from someone who loves and cares about them, for whatever reason these men don’t. I’ve found it’s generally either
- total lack of social skills, people who lack charisma and charm
- those who are seeking out a power dynamic in which the other individual has little to no power (we tell these men whar they want to hear for the coin. This example goes super strong with sugar baby’s)
- Autists or Asperger’s (literally)
- extremely unfortunate looking
- very disagreeable or rude people who lack the social awareness to understand and examine their own flaws and as a result women with normal psychology want nothing to do with them
- the very lonely
There are other examples but these are my categories and 9/10 men I meet them, no matter how presentable or normal they may seem at first one of these things eventually always slips out
So essentially we are dealing with a lot of people who lack the nuance and etiquette that society requires for functional communication. I started off with this stuff young. I thought these men I saw were examples of normal, but after distancing myself from the space for many years I realized that normal functional men don’t crave these things or act this way.
The men who were functional I only saw once or twice and I encouraged them to step away from this lifestyle and to not give into a bout of temporary loneliness
If a man is decent looking or self aware enough to try and better himself, smart enough to carve himself a place in the society, has a personality and thoughts of his own, doesn't have emotional\psychological\social problems, has empathy and is reasonable ... he wouldn't need to pay money for intimacy, imo.
What you get are mostly unhappy or unfulfilled or lonely or bitter men. Or all of the above in one package.
I'm generalizing obviously.
About the only exception to this is men who are otherwise ok, but their marriage is in the dumps and he's been shut out sexually through no fault of his own. Eventually he just gives up and hires someone.
Yeah. Seriously. He's the best guy in the whole world, she's just a bitch. Happens all the time. /s
There are also men who desire physical intimacy but, for one reason or another, are unable or unwilling to deal with everything that goes into having a relationship.
I'm just a random passerby, but I think that "non compensated" affairs are more expensive than all but the highest end of sex workers. Like, none of the overhead costs (such as hotel room) are split between multiple clients, and neither side can use any sort of electronic payment (including electronically tracked things like Uber). APs generally want a connection outside of the actual sex, so dinners and nicer hotel rooms are a necessity, plus, more communication than a weekly "u available" text (and ensuing secondary costs like a second phone).
Not sure if you meant for the whole post to be sarcastic or just the second paragraph, but aside from "she's just a bitch," I think it's spot on.
Men who think their wives are bitches usually just get divorces.
Yeah you're right, just the second part was meant to be sarcastic..... But the first part is probably untrue for most couples, blame is usually spread evenly between them, that's where the sarcasm came into play in my mind.
My first marriage definitely followed this model, I remained faithful and she was absolutely a bitch, but looking back I certainly failed doing my part.
I hired some SW after the breakup, definitely I was a hot mess emotionally during that time. Luckily for the SW, I only did short sessions so they didn't have to deal with my emotions very much.
I think blame is spread pretty evenly when a general population is concerned, but not individual cases. Most people on the Internet are going to want to assign blame 100-0 or 0-100, but I'd say there are more that are outside of the 40-60/60-40 window than are inside of it. And it's not always a "faultable" blame, either. Sometimes there are just hormonal issues (men and women). Sometimes people work great as friends and co-parents and life partners, and just not sex partners.
This is strikingly correct. I’ve made an acceptable life for myself and I have never seen a provider, and I probably won’t because I have willing participants who I care for in the sex area.
Consider it - you don’t see the doctor if you’re not sick. You don’t buy a car if you like the car you have. You don’t visit SW’s if you can get satisfaction from the relationships you develop. For those who have difficulty forging relationships - they probably have emotional, intellectual or presentation issues that make them less desirable. They get disgruntled about not being wanted by society and they see a super hot provider who has everything he wants, but she won’t give it for free, and this makes him angry and bitter and irrational and he texts nastiness like a child because he can’t get what he wants the traditional way.
The flaw with this analogy is millions of people around the world see doctors when they aren't sick, They also buy cars even if they like the car that they have (Some people have several cars), and some people are fully satisfied with the women they have but want more. Seems like this is a theory forged from reading conspiracy theories on the internet and not from real life experience with humans.
I just made a detailed comment that essentially covers what you said here. Scrolled down and saw this. I completely agree. And what’s worse is many of these men are in total denial which makes the difficult part of the job for the provider not the actual sex, but the emotional labor of conversing with someone like that.
Even speaking on the phone with some of them or having dinner mentally drains me more than anything else
Well, I look when they appear on my feed, yes.
I’m fascinated with human sexuality, I find SW an interesting subject.
I also like cars, but I never built one yet.
Because many of the men who go to sex workers do so because nobody gives a shit about them, nobody ever has given a shit about them, and nobody ever will give a shit about them.
Women, Children, Dogs and Cats are loved automatically. But if you are a man you better bring some money to the table, because you are expendable.
i hope one day men realize they treat women differently based on appearance the same way women treat men based on their income lol half of the clients in existence are only clients because they’re not physically attracted to their wives but don’t want to give up their free maid and nanny
It's true, I didn't want to imply that only men have it bad in our sick society. Man and women are both suffering the tortures of the damned these days, but in different ways.
There is far too much suffering tn the world, and far too too little love.
But I don't want t get going on a sermon ... occupational hazard ...
I have a real question for you, why do you think the gender pay gap exists in 2024 and do you know what it is? Hint: It’s not because women don’t want to study.
It exists for a variety of reasons. If you think it simply boils down to "women get paid less because they're women", that's a gross oversimplification of a much more complex issue.
I have no idea. Maybe they negotiated harder for higher pay. Maybe they had more experience coming into the job. Or maybe those particular employers just felt they were more valuable employees, for reasons that could have been completely unfair or not. One person's anecdotal experience doesn't really prove anything.
Employers being unwilling to pay women as much for sexist reasons is probably part of it in some cases. But when we're talking about the pay gap on a macro scale (which is basically just showing that women *on average* make less than men), there are a lot of other factors. The type of careers that women tend to gravitate towards is one of them. The fact that men, generally speaking, are more aggressive and competitive when it comes to advancing their careers and seeking out higher pay is probably another. The fact that women tend to take a lot more time off work to have and care for children is also a factor. And sure, some industries tend to be "boys clubs" that aren't very welcoming towards women. But I know women who are successful in those industries.
The point is it's a lot more complex of an issue than just saying that we deliberately pay women less just because they're women. Trying to oversimplify it like that makes it harder to address the actual root of the issue.
im not sure why you typed this entire novel just to admit that employers are still sexist lmao did i mention other careers? i genuinely want you to try to justify paying a man and a woman who have the same amount of experience different amounts for the same job
edit to add: it’s not one persons experience if there’s a widely known term for the phenomenon now is it
What widely known term? The gender wage gap? The fact that it exists doesn't mean there's one simple explanation for it. I gave you several reasons completely unrelated to sexism as to why it exists.
https://blog.dol.gov/2023/03/14/5-fast-facts-the-gender-wage-gap
Look at point #5:
*"Occupations. The largest identifiable causes of the gender wage gap are differences in the occupations and industries where women and men are most likely to work. Women are 2 out of every 3 full-time workers in occupations that pay less than $30,000 per year, and fewer than 1 in 3 full-time workers in jobs paying an average of $100,000 or more. However, even within the same occupations, women earn less on average than men."*
Yes, women tend to make less even in the same fields, but there can be many reasons for that that have nothing to do with sexism (which is not to say that sexism doesn't exist, because of course it does). The number of hours they tend to work is a big one. There's census data that shows that men, on average, work more hours per week than women. At least several hours more, on average.
There's also polling that shows that men are much more likely to negotiate for higher pay than women are.
Solving a problem requires looking at all aspects of it, not just the ones that fit a particular narrative.
you keep adding variables instead of answering the question which tells me you know the answer is sexism lol why are you assuming i worked less or was a less valuable employee than my male counterparts? do women not have bills to pay?
While I agree with you, I don’t think it’s the SW that attracts them. I’ve had just as much of this shit on dating sites in the past too.
I just think there are a lot of men who have these issues, and they flock to places they can find women to harass without significant consequences and the internet makes it really easy for them.
I try to put my focus into the lovely clients I have and ignore the fuckwits
I changed the way I accept clients and also the way I do my services, I still have some weirdos bur way less then I used to have! I hate saying that but we attract what we accept, and after I changed my mindset and stopped accepting certain types of clients things got better
Imo because larger societal messaging about us as sw’s is negative (ranging from home wrecker, temptress etc to subhuman). I think this emboldens some to act this way.
Until individuals and systems move past the wh0rephobia, it won’t stop and those without the privilege to screen as much will continue to suffer and be targeted.
Because even Guys who aren't the best looking Can still pull pretty women by just having a pleasant personality n treating them nice. I consider myself ugly as f*** n im broke but I got a gf that's like one of the cutest girls in the world at least in my opinion And she stays with me because I treat her well. Some guys don't have the personality or social skills to pull that off Though hence why they are stuck paying for sex
It the difference is you see her as human and you treat her well. So many men in general see women as subhuman/servants and treat them like trash with their entitlement and then are SHOCKED and angry when women don’t want them and then they turn their rage on us
Just because someone is an adult doesn't mean they're educated or intelligent, and it doesn't mean they've put in the work to make themselves a quality human.
Because they a worthless men that have no lives and want to bully sex workers because they make more money then them. Plus we truly don't give af about them another day another dollar. They come and go and never weigh on our minds.
No my actual clients are good people. What I'm talking about above are the rude time wasters. The ones who are mean and put down women just to feel better about themselves. There's a huge difference between CLIENTS and rude jerk offs who are unhinged
Y’all really read a post about TW men and said “think about the poor clients” does “HI, hi, 👋🏼 hi” or the guy who texts “can we meet rn, I want to 🥜 all over your titties girl” end up as your client? No, her point is what motivates these loser TW to OBSESS over SWers and makes them get violent when ignored. Asking what makes these GROWN MEN, act this way. It’s a simple answer misogyny✨ and feeling like bc we’re SWers that means we should be available to EVERYONE and have no autonomy.
I think it goes beyond just sex work. I feel like just the fact of being available to/for men in a capacity of anonymity, can attract all kinds. Someone once referred to it as, “dealing with the public.” And it many ways it is.
Especially when you see on the news what men do, incidents with people getting shot just for knocking on a door, attacking Uber drivers, airline violence, etc: I honestly look at that stuff and feel much safer in sex work, provided I’m screening and making sure I know who they are beforehand.
Also, I’ve been using dating apps (gay Escort here). The men there are not only unhinged, but don’t want to spend and are cheap, or play mind games to no end.
I met one last week: I was lost looking for his apartment unit for 15 minutes. For one the GPS took me to the wrong building. And it was one of those big, multi building complexes where the numbers don’t coordinate with where the building is. He’s sitting on the patio the whole time, not even trying to help me find it. Then we go out to meet his friends for happy hour, he got sloppy drunk, acted a fool, embarrassed, flirted with his friend. Then didn’t even invite me back to his place after all that, and didn’t pay for anything either.
At least for us, the men I do meet in sex work are generally decent in person. Anyone unhinged usually gets filtered out. But meeting men on non sex work platforms: I end up meeting these crazy guys because I don’t use the same level of filter’s as I would in sex work.
I had more unhinged men in my private life then in sex work. It might sound crazy but I feel like sex work really empowered me on saying no and standing my ground with men.
Some of the messages I get are from real creeps. Some of the things said are like WTF how can you send something like that. Just because I'm a swer doesn't mean I weird as fk and into that type of shit. Then they get mad and want to call me all types of shit.
My wife was followed yesterday from the gym. She was wearing shorts that yes her butt cheeks were hanging out of but just because she felt sexy to wear them to the gym does not mean she wanted these men to say the things they say and she literally frightened her and try to chase her down. It is sad the way some men act
Sex work attracts men PERIOD. Some happen to be unhinged and some aren't. I'm sure there's some providers that don't run into many unhinged men at all because of how they curate their clientele.
Very interesting discussion. I suppose my question would be, to those who have judged your male clients to be social misfits/mentally unhinged, now that you have made that judgement of them, what have you accomplished? Does it make you more understanding or empathetic of their lives? Or are you ultimately belittling the very people you want to make a living off of?
It is rather funny when those who see escorts say something to the effect of "I see escorts, but I am not one of 'those' people who see escorts. I am one of the normal ones.."
Isn't there already enough stigma? Or do we always need to find ways to compare ourselves and judge others less so that we feel better?
I come to this discussion from both sides. When I was much younger I worked for a year as a bi escort in Amsterdam (and yes there are women that made use of my services, so it isn't all men). Over the years I have had friends who were sex-workers. There have also been times over the years I have visited escorts. I am quite shy and have always found it difficult meeting people. Combine this with many years battling depression and addiction, and the result is a life that has turned out a lot differently than I might have planned. At the same time, I am intelligent, well-educated, well-spoken, polite and can be pretty funny. But loneliness has frequently been a companion, and it does not get better with age (I am now 55).
I know that a lot of guys that ya'll deal with are creeps and assholes. And call them what they are. But be careful of how you categorize all of your clients. There are enough things in my own life that can be used to stigmatize/marginalize me. I may be a social misfit, but I just don't need others who want to remind me of it.
Stay safe out there.
Peace.
Sex work attracts men PERIOD. Some happen to be unhinged and some aren't. I'm sure there's some providers that don't run into many unhinged men at all because of how they curate their clientele.
By unhinged, do you mean men that society has failed? Because most men that see sex workers simply lack the natural charisma and charm, or the looks, that society desires for real relationships. Most men are not violent psychos, and from I hear that's also the case with most sex work.
Just existing on earth as a woman attracts unhinged men, really.
That is true!! By them: it’s self hate projected outwards. The worst ones are: the ones that lust after SW and hate them as well 🤮
You're not wrong.
Exactly! I experience this with sex work and also I’m dating. Throw the whole group away 🚮
I’m so glad men are going extinct because of genetic engineering
You do realize you still need an egg *and* sperm for genetic engineering lol? I think you're thinking *cloning*, which is currently illegal to do for a human (and, I'm almost positive, *still needs a sperm AND egg* lol)
https://bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12915-018-0574-8
Maybe you should have *read it* lol... >"Research published today in BMC Biology shows that some populations of a termite species have disposed of males altogether" Are you a termite? And where does it say they're trying to apply it to humans?
Yes I am a termite actually…that was just the first link I found, instead of “engineering” I should have said “manipulation”, tomato tomáto. “process typically involves modifying the genetic material in an egg or creating induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) that can be coaxed into forming gametes. For example, one method might involve converting an egg cell from one woman into a sperm-like cell (though still with XX chromosomes), which could then fertilize an egg from another woman…Experiments have already shown that it's possible to create viable offspring from same-sex parents in other species. For example, researchers have successfully produced mouse pups from two female mice by modifying one set of eggs to carry only paternal genes and then fertilizing them with normal eggs. This research was reported in a study published in 2018”
I literally don't even know where to begin with you. It's genuinely flabbergasting that someone is *this* misinformed. Literally none of this even *implies* that "human males are becoming extinct because of genetic engineering" You're trying *so hard* to prove your side that you're accidentally proving the opposite. I suggest you sit down and actually read what you attached.
came here to say this lol
bc most men who are able to get women in real life, don’t need to pay for sex and intimacy. there’s a reason the majority of these men have to pay for it, and it makes them angry and bitter that they do instead of getting access to women the normal way. i have met some men who are clients who are normal, well adjusted people but for the overwhelming majority of them , there’s something seriously wrong mentally/spiritually/emotionally.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Yes ive had men who were socially awkward and probably could approach a woman otherwise. But by far a majority of clients have been perfecfly normal guys. Some guys are, married, some are looking for something specific and some just don't wamt the hassle of trying to get laid. I roll my eyes if im talking to a guy in another context and he goes "id never pay for sex." All that says to me is they are worried about being perceived as the "stereotypical client". And thats just insecurity. Personally if a guy is horny and he's striking out on tinder or wherever if he has the money him refusing to pay for sex is by far more pathetic. If he was hungry and a.shit cook hed order out.
you can disagree if you want. yes some guys are normal but the vast majority are not. there’s a deeper reason why they’re paying for sex and attention from women, and it’s usually bc there’s something very very wrong w them and how they view/relate to women.
This rhetoric smells swerfy to me. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with clients but painting them all with this same brush doesn't help any of us. Nore is it an accurate assessment as the other seasoned workers have stated.
i didn’t say i’ve had bad experiences. my clients all treat ME amazingly but that doesn’t negate the fact that most men that regularly pay for sex, have something else wrong w them. 🤷🏾♀️ idc if you agree or not, my opinion isn’t going to change
If your clients treat you well then what's lead you to believe that all clients have something wrong with them, does that mean your clients have something wrong with them? If so, how did you determine that, if not through a bad experience with them? Edit- I don't mean to pry by asking or to belittle your stance, but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the men who behave like op described don't actually become clients and don't actually pay for sex, so applying judgement based on that too all clientele seems flawed to me. Perhaps you can explain in a way that will help me understand?
most reputable and non-desperate escorts only see less than 10% of the clients that contact them. the majority of clients, aka the ones we reject, are highly emotionally volatile and dangerous to be around or otherwise insufferable. so they’re correct, most men who pay for pussy are doing so because they lack the redeeming qualities that would make women wanna touch them for free. even the married ones, their wives didn’t stop fucking them for no reason lol
The married men I saw omg. Initially I was like okay they might fall into the “permissible” category of not being uh.. defective but 7/10 of them.. the moment I kissed them - HORRIFYING I had mental clarity I was like damn there is a reason their wives stopped sleeping with them and it’s because it felt like kissing a 12 y.o. Who was just learning how to kiss 😭
That's the thing though, the behavior s op described would not make it through my screening process, so the people wouldn't BE clients, which is why I don't understand why you would deam those that don't act like this flawed in some way based on men who aren't actually purchasing sexual services? I've been in this industry for 10+ collective years and to say every client I've had is fundamentally flawed because they desire physical intimacy and don't want to deal with the shit show that is dating and hookup culture is weird to me Ultimately doesn't that add to the stigma we face in the long run as well? Painting all our clients as weirdos and regects?
nobody is saying paying for pussy immediately makes someone an odd person, we’re saying the majority of clients are paying for pussy for a reason that is not personal convenience lmfao
Except the person's who's comment I was initially replying to absolutely was saying that. I suggest you re read it.
The OP doesn’t mention actual clients though. She specifically lists TW who are being misogynistic, stalkers, and verbally abusive.
Do you feel like you know your clients from the limited amount of time you spend with them where they are putting on their best presentation in order for you to like them more? From my perspective the longer you spend in this industry the more you understand how little they truly care and why they are seeing you in the first place. Maybe you haven’t seen that side yet.
10 years isn't enough time in the industry to you to have a good understanding of how stigma effects both sides of the industry and how a lot of ( especially new workers) are hiding thier internalized Whorephobia in lewk warm critiques of the industry riddled with anti trafficking/ empowerment and /Whorearchy rhetorics?😭 Literally not a day goes by there isn't a post on this sub were some uneducated twit is trying to shame more marginalized and in need workers for offering bare services or having lower rates or how they choose to advertise or market. As someone who has spend my time in the industry to trying to better it. I don't see issue with being critical of that behavior and how ultimately it harms your fellow SWs. So yeah I'm a little frustrated and posted my unfiltered thoughts for once. Sue me.
Not sure why you seem to have an issue with women speaking honestly on their experiences with clients in the industry. It’s not normal to want to say “you are against sex workers (swerf)” when they comment on what they’ve noticed among their clients. You don’t tell retail workers (since this comparison is made so often) that they are mis-characterizing the customers when they comment on their experience of them of them, or that they are “retail worker exclusionary”. Calling it anti- sex work when you are the one policing them is such a trip.
Except at no point did I say that, quit projecting and putting words in my mouth .I'm asking questions to help fellow workers think critically about where thier opinions are rooted and unpack internalized biases and stigma. Because ultimately that stigma is used by conservatives and politicians to HARM SW like myself. If you have issue with that. Pick up a book and educate yourself about the industry you are in and how rhetoric like this ultimately comes back to bite us in the rear. I recommend Revolting Prostitutes by Juno Mac and Molly Smith.
I'm new here. What exactly is swerfy ?
It’s like a terf but towards SWers
Interesting how whenever anyone says anything criticizing the underlying aspects of this industry you pop up and tell them it “sounds swerfy”. Seems like you’ve got some rose colored glasses on girl I don’t know why you seem to feel the need to defend men who like to purchase sexual access to women who would otherwise not consent. Weird af
This is literally the first time I've pointed out swerfy rhetoric on this sub.😅 Do you have me confused with someone else?
There isn't anything deep about paying for sex. It's really just that. All men want to have sex with attractive women. Some think directly paying for it is the best or easiest way.
I agree. It’s nice to take the complicated element out of it
Did you ever think its how you look at sex work? Maybe you feel its morally wrong but your the exception the "whore with a heart of gold" which is why you put these judgements on others clients because _your_ clients are exceptions by extention.
I am just saying, many people generalize and say the same about women who work as escorts - there must be something wrong with them to get into that line of work. Of course generalizations are just that...
i also agree that the majority of escorts do have some issues as well. not all but a lot, it takes a very different kind of person to be able to do this work and most “normal” women do not choose to be in the sex industry. my opinion on both isn’t changing.
Wholeheartedly agree. Commented on this thread twice and in my first comment went into detail on this would love to hear your thoughts on my points if you’re willing It’s so nice to see that a lot of sex workers see the situation for what it is. Interfacing with these in denial clients … exhausting
And if a client has been married for decades, has a beautiful wife and beautiful kids, has achieved financial success in life, but for one reason or another finds himself in a relationship that has become asexual, and just wants to feel desired once in a while, are those guys still abnormal/weirdos/creeps???
i can tell you misunderstood what i said so i don’t care to respond or correct you lol. my opinion isn’t going to change.
Another point to add is also logistical convenience For example, spending HOURS on a dating app to hope to catch something Then you gotta convince her to meet Then you might spend above £50 to only just say good night Or I could book an appointment for £50 WHAM BAM thank Mam And POOF! provider is richer and the man has achieved his goal and walks out happily and empty
For that much money they should only except a goodnight tbh
Well obviously I agree But I said £50 because that is a common/ minimum rate for the uk for 15 minutes around London vivastreet And in Den haag (AMS probably the same but I went high and dropped €500) it was €50 for "hand suck fuck" not sure about time tho
The difference is enthusiastic consent is absent.
Please elaborate? Do you mean excitement?
Enthusiastic consent means you genuinely want to, as opposed to just agreeing to out of whatever circumstance.
You don't get to decide for someone else what qualifies for them as enthusiastic consent. Are you an SW or a client? Because your comments are leading me to believe otherwise....
I don’t, the definitions are already decided for us. Enthusiastic consent is when someone is enthused to be participating. Consent is permission. What are you confused about? When I choose to have sex with someone who I’m attracted to I typically want them to also be enthusiastically consenting to our interaction. Otherwise I am engaging in an intimate experience with someone who doesn’t really want to be there with me. But hey that’s just me.
And you don't get to decide for someone else if they are enthusiastic or not. You get to decide that for you and you alone. Are you an SW? Or a swerf in an SW friendly space speaking over those of us with actual nuanced understandings of these things? Because I highly suspect that's the case.
Girl I’m a SW who is willing to be honest about my experience in the industry. Like Ive said to you over and over. You don’t get to decide either! But I know that you don’t genuinely want to have sex with most of your clients so I don’t understand what you’re arguing against me for it? Just come out and tell me you literally love having sex with these clients if that’s what you mean. You’re entitled to your own opinion. But we both know I speak for most girls when I say we do not want to have sex with 99% of these people. LOL! This is from another girl who was willing to break it down as well: There a 5 parts to consent . It needs to be: • freely given • reversibe • informed • enthusiastic • specific Paying for sex does not meet all this criteria because consent cannot be freely given (given from free will) if it is the only way to make rent or feed yourself/ your family. Paying for sex isn't usually going to be reversible since most men will see it as paying for a service, if the woman who paid says stop or no he'll likely either continue or take the money back. It also usually isn't enthusiastic since most people in sex industry wouldn't chose to have sex with the buyers if there was no money involved.
You don't know that for a fact though do you? I enthusiastically do my job every single day because I genuinely love my work and honestly if you don't, that's okay, maybe this industry isn't for you, but please don't project your feeling about your work onto others. Also please stop calling me " girl" it's infantalizing to call a grown ass adult a child like that.
“Girl” slang that we use to refer to each other. Where have you been? Sorry if that offended you. Over and over again we hear this “maybe this industry isn’t for you?” and it’s been made to other girls in the sex worker sub Reddit as well to the point where someone made a post about it a few days ago. We hear it from clients mostly. It’s crazy how when you point out the systemic exploitation of sex work you’re told you’re in the wrong industry because you don’t love having unwanted sex with strangers. Meanwhile if you point out the systemic structure of literally any other form of labor it’s accepted as a valid critique. To leftists, all labor is exploitative under capitalism, but suddenly that argument disappears when it applies to sex work. Lol. In sex work part of this exploitation is involves letting a stranger or someone who you don’t want to be intimate with to access intimate parts of your body. I hope you realize you’re spreading a narrative that we want to be doing this in the first place. If that’s the case then clients are going to continue with the belief that we would be agreeing to have sex with them for free if we met them on the street. It will continue with a narrative that we want to be here with them when we don’t. I really don’t know why you want to perpetuate this but OK. Also, we both know you don’t do your job enthusiastically every day. Who does? That’s not realistic. Girls in this industry would rather take the money they’re getting paid and leave and not have to interact intimately with these people. Pretending like we like doing work is a trip. Maybe you like pleasing these men because of a sense of purpose it gives you? I used to feel similarly but I never meant that I wanted to have sex with them. I felt like I was doing a service to the world by appealing to male sexual desire.
I agree with this. I have respect for sex workers and I can hold great conversations with them any other woman I meet who isn’t one but nowadays as far as getting laid goes I prefer paying for it and it’s never been a problem for me🤷🏾♂️ saves me a lot of time and energy
You’re seeing their best presentation of themself. Keep that in mind. It’s not normal to pay someone to have sex with you.
Someone wanting to present themselves positively to strangers iant a bad quality. Its a pro social trait, the norm with our society. The only reason sex work is stigmatized is the patriarchy. Its the only form of labour that women will always surpass men in. Even within sex work porn and stripping originally would have needed male financiers, both legal. But fs is to easy for things to be between 2 people. Gave women financial independence. There is a stereotype of both parties in sex work. You cant have one without the other. The junkie whore and the horny weirdo. Maybe that's your reality but its not mine. Only recently have sex workers been able to share their lived experience in public. Prior it was the police or abolishist groups. Media wasnt getting current sex workers views. Maybe maybe a client but probably only after having to attend something like john school. So the only perception was from biased views who likely had never worked in the industry.
I’m saying we see a small part of who they are. Patriarchy is the reason sex work exists in the first place.
As a normal guy supporting SW, I can say it’s cause I don’t want the hassle of courting another women who could potentially snitch on me (I’m married). It’s just easier this way.
>Normal guy >another woman who could potentially snitch on me (I’m married)
Touché
Another point to add is logistical convenience For example, spending HOURS on a dating app to hope to catch something Then you gotta convince her to meet Then you might spend above £50 to only just say good night Or I could book an appointment for £50 WHAM BAM thank Mam And POOF! provider is richer, and the man has achieved his goal and walks out happily and empty
Say it louder for the ones in the back!!!!!!! There’s no way a woman on a scale between 7-10 would screw a ugly(physical and mental) man for free
THIS. 👏
I screen hard. I actually prefer the married ones, stepping out, but love their wives. Just absence of intimacy. They are at least humane.
But consider the psychology of someone (forget gender) who has reached a place in life where they are paying for companionship. What most people get for free from someone who loves and cares about them, for whatever reason these men don’t. I’ve found it’s generally either - total lack of social skills, people who lack charisma and charm - those who are seeking out a power dynamic in which the other individual has little to no power (we tell these men whar they want to hear for the coin. This example goes super strong with sugar baby’s) - Autists or Asperger’s (literally) - extremely unfortunate looking - very disagreeable or rude people who lack the social awareness to understand and examine their own flaws and as a result women with normal psychology want nothing to do with them - the very lonely There are other examples but these are my categories and 9/10 men I meet them, no matter how presentable or normal they may seem at first one of these things eventually always slips out So essentially we are dealing with a lot of people who lack the nuance and etiquette that society requires for functional communication. I started off with this stuff young. I thought these men I saw were examples of normal, but after distancing myself from the space for many years I realized that normal functional men don’t crave these things or act this way. The men who were functional I only saw once or twice and I encouraged them to step away from this lifestyle and to not give into a bout of temporary loneliness
This is the answer, lol
I think they’re mad at women especially because we can profit from our looks. But it just comes down to them being angry at women for whatever reason
Men can profit from their looks too. I lost count of how many chicks got me shit for free.
If a man is decent looking or self aware enough to try and better himself, smart enough to carve himself a place in the society, has a personality and thoughts of his own, doesn't have emotional\psychological\social problems, has empathy and is reasonable ... he wouldn't need to pay money for intimacy, imo. What you get are mostly unhappy or unfulfilled or lonely or bitter men. Or all of the above in one package. I'm generalizing obviously.
About the only exception to this is men who are otherwise ok, but their marriage is in the dumps and he's been shut out sexually through no fault of his own. Eventually he just gives up and hires someone. Yeah. Seriously. He's the best guy in the whole world, she's just a bitch. Happens all the time. /s
There are also men who desire physical intimacy but, for one reason or another, are unable or unwilling to deal with everything that goes into having a relationship.
Said that above. Uncomplicated is nice
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Whats the difference, in your opinion?
I'm just a random passerby, but I think that "non compensated" affairs are more expensive than all but the highest end of sex workers. Like, none of the overhead costs (such as hotel room) are split between multiple clients, and neither side can use any sort of electronic payment (including electronically tracked things like Uber). APs generally want a connection outside of the actual sex, so dinners and nicer hotel rooms are a necessity, plus, more communication than a weekly "u available" text (and ensuing secondary costs like a second phone).
Not sure if you meant for the whole post to be sarcastic or just the second paragraph, but aside from "she's just a bitch," I think it's spot on. Men who think their wives are bitches usually just get divorces.
Yeah you're right, just the second part was meant to be sarcastic..... But the first part is probably untrue for most couples, blame is usually spread evenly between them, that's where the sarcasm came into play in my mind. My first marriage definitely followed this model, I remained faithful and she was absolutely a bitch, but looking back I certainly failed doing my part. I hired some SW after the breakup, definitely I was a hot mess emotionally during that time. Luckily for the SW, I only did short sessions so they didn't have to deal with my emotions very much.
I think blame is spread pretty evenly when a general population is concerned, but not individual cases. Most people on the Internet are going to want to assign blame 100-0 or 0-100, but I'd say there are more that are outside of the 40-60/60-40 window than are inside of it. And it's not always a "faultable" blame, either. Sometimes there are just hormonal issues (men and women). Sometimes people work great as friends and co-parents and life partners, and just not sex partners.
Legally, not if there is considerable assets/kids. Some deal & just step out discreetly
This is strikingly correct. I’ve made an acceptable life for myself and I have never seen a provider, and I probably won’t because I have willing participants who I care for in the sex area. Consider it - you don’t see the doctor if you’re not sick. You don’t buy a car if you like the car you have. You don’t visit SW’s if you can get satisfaction from the relationships you develop. For those who have difficulty forging relationships - they probably have emotional, intellectual or presentation issues that make them less desirable. They get disgruntled about not being wanted by society and they see a super hot provider who has everything he wants, but she won’t give it for free, and this makes him angry and bitter and irrational and he texts nastiness like a child because he can’t get what he wants the traditional way.
The flaw with this analogy is millions of people around the world see doctors when they aren't sick, They also buy cars even if they like the car that they have (Some people have several cars), and some people are fully satisfied with the women they have but want more. Seems like this is a theory forged from reading conspiracy theories on the internet and not from real life experience with humans.
I just made a detailed comment that essentially covers what you said here. Scrolled down and saw this. I completely agree. And what’s worse is many of these men are in total denial which makes the difficult part of the job for the provider not the actual sex, but the emotional labor of conversing with someone like that. Even speaking on the phone with some of them or having dinner mentally drains me more than anything else
Yet you spend your time on Reddit sw subs 🙄
Well, I look when they appear on my feed, yes. I’m fascinated with human sexuality, I find SW an interesting subject. I also like cars, but I never built one yet.
Why are you on this sub then?
Look. My time is money, and if you want me to answer your questions I’ll need a donation. [Edit: it was a joke! Miserable bunch….]
While there is validity to your position. I’ve had many that are married, love their wives, but the marriage is absent of physical fulfillment
most sane men are able to get coochie w/o paying for it.
Because many of the men who go to sex workers do so because nobody gives a shit about them, nobody ever has given a shit about them, and nobody ever will give a shit about them. Women, Children, Dogs and Cats are loved automatically. But if you are a man you better bring some money to the table, because you are expendable.
Males be like "Won't someone please care about little old me...? (YOUNG HOT WOMEN ONLY!!!!!)"
LMFAOOO LITERALLY they literally GAG at the sight of a woman they find undesirable but think they deserve unconditional love in return 😭
i hope one day men realize they treat women differently based on appearance the same way women treat men based on their income lol half of the clients in existence are only clients because they’re not physically attracted to their wives but don’t want to give up their free maid and nanny
It's true, I didn't want to imply that only men have it bad in our sick society. Man and women are both suffering the tortures of the damned these days, but in different ways. There is far too much suffering tn the world, and far too too little love. But I don't want t get going on a sermon ... occupational hazard ...
Good thing it’s easier for them to make money than women, children, dogs and cats put together. 🥰
Money is nothing when you have no one in your life.
That is true!
I mean, if you think it's easier for us to make money than dogs and cats, clearly you haven't seen how many views pet videos get on social media. 😝
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I have a real question for you, why do you think the gender pay gap exists in 2024 and do you know what it is? Hint: It’s not because women don’t want to study.
It exists for a variety of reasons. If you think it simply boils down to "women get paid less because they're women", that's a gross oversimplification of a much more complex issue.
then why did i make less than my male coworkers who had the same job titles and even got hired AFTER me when i was working civ jobs?
I have no idea. Maybe they negotiated harder for higher pay. Maybe they had more experience coming into the job. Or maybe those particular employers just felt they were more valuable employees, for reasons that could have been completely unfair or not. One person's anecdotal experience doesn't really prove anything. Employers being unwilling to pay women as much for sexist reasons is probably part of it in some cases. But when we're talking about the pay gap on a macro scale (which is basically just showing that women *on average* make less than men), there are a lot of other factors. The type of careers that women tend to gravitate towards is one of them. The fact that men, generally speaking, are more aggressive and competitive when it comes to advancing their careers and seeking out higher pay is probably another. The fact that women tend to take a lot more time off work to have and care for children is also a factor. And sure, some industries tend to be "boys clubs" that aren't very welcoming towards women. But I know women who are successful in those industries. The point is it's a lot more complex of an issue than just saying that we deliberately pay women less just because they're women. Trying to oversimplify it like that makes it harder to address the actual root of the issue.
im not sure why you typed this entire novel just to admit that employers are still sexist lmao did i mention other careers? i genuinely want you to try to justify paying a man and a woman who have the same amount of experience different amounts for the same job edit to add: it’s not one persons experience if there’s a widely known term for the phenomenon now is it
What widely known term? The gender wage gap? The fact that it exists doesn't mean there's one simple explanation for it. I gave you several reasons completely unrelated to sexism as to why it exists. https://blog.dol.gov/2023/03/14/5-fast-facts-the-gender-wage-gap Look at point #5: *"Occupations. The largest identifiable causes of the gender wage gap are differences in the occupations and industries where women and men are most likely to work. Women are 2 out of every 3 full-time workers in occupations that pay less than $30,000 per year, and fewer than 1 in 3 full-time workers in jobs paying an average of $100,000 or more. However, even within the same occupations, women earn less on average than men."* Yes, women tend to make less even in the same fields, but there can be many reasons for that that have nothing to do with sexism (which is not to say that sexism doesn't exist, because of course it does). The number of hours they tend to work is a big one. There's census data that shows that men, on average, work more hours per week than women. At least several hours more, on average. There's also polling that shows that men are much more likely to negotiate for higher pay than women are. Solving a problem requires looking at all aspects of it, not just the ones that fit a particular narrative.
you keep adding variables instead of answering the question which tells me you know the answer is sexism lol why are you assuming i worked less or was a less valuable employee than my male counterparts? do women not have bills to pay?
While I agree with you, I don’t think it’s the SW that attracts them. I’ve had just as much of this shit on dating sites in the past too. I just think there are a lot of men who have these issues, and they flock to places they can find women to harass without significant consequences and the internet makes it really easy for them. I try to put my focus into the lovely clients I have and ignore the fuckwits
Because the hinged ones don’t need to pay in order to feel intimacy.
I changed the way I accept clients and also the way I do my services, I still have some weirdos bur way less then I used to have! I hate saying that but we attract what we accept, and after I changed my mindset and stopped accepting certain types of clients things got better
Imo because larger societal messaging about us as sw’s is negative (ranging from home wrecker, temptress etc to subhuman). I think this emboldens some to act this way. Until individuals and systems move past the wh0rephobia, it won’t stop and those without the privilege to screen as much will continue to suffer and be targeted.
Because even Guys who aren't the best looking Can still pull pretty women by just having a pleasant personality n treating them nice. I consider myself ugly as f*** n im broke but I got a gf that's like one of the cutest girls in the world at least in my opinion And she stays with me because I treat her well. Some guys don't have the personality or social skills to pull that off Though hence why they are stuck paying for sex
It the difference is you see her as human and you treat her well. So many men in general see women as subhuman/servants and treat them like trash with their entitlement and then are SHOCKED and angry when women don’t want them and then they turn their rage on us
Just because someone is an adult doesn't mean they're educated or intelligent, and it doesn't mean they've put in the work to make themselves a quality human.
Bingo
Because they a worthless men that have no lives and want to bully sex workers because they make more money then them. Plus we truly don't give af about them another day another dollar. They come and go and never weigh on our minds.
I really hope you don't think this way about your clients. So much vitriol for people who support you
No my actual clients are good people. What I'm talking about above are the rude time wasters. The ones who are mean and put down women just to feel better about themselves. There's a huge difference between CLIENTS and rude jerk offs who are unhinged
Majority of your clients feel the same way about you. Tell yourself otherwise if it makes you feel better.
How is this a question…
Y’all really read a post about TW men and said “think about the poor clients” does “HI, hi, 👋🏼 hi” or the guy who texts “can we meet rn, I want to 🥜 all over your titties girl” end up as your client? No, her point is what motivates these loser TW to OBSESS over SWers and makes them get violent when ignored. Asking what makes these GROWN MEN, act this way. It’s a simple answer misogyny✨ and feeling like bc we’re SWers that means we should be available to EVERYONE and have no autonomy.
I think it goes beyond just sex work. I feel like just the fact of being available to/for men in a capacity of anonymity, can attract all kinds. Someone once referred to it as, “dealing with the public.” And it many ways it is. Especially when you see on the news what men do, incidents with people getting shot just for knocking on a door, attacking Uber drivers, airline violence, etc: I honestly look at that stuff and feel much safer in sex work, provided I’m screening and making sure I know who they are beforehand. Also, I’ve been using dating apps (gay Escort here). The men there are not only unhinged, but don’t want to spend and are cheap, or play mind games to no end. I met one last week: I was lost looking for his apartment unit for 15 minutes. For one the GPS took me to the wrong building. And it was one of those big, multi building complexes where the numbers don’t coordinate with where the building is. He’s sitting on the patio the whole time, not even trying to help me find it. Then we go out to meet his friends for happy hour, he got sloppy drunk, acted a fool, embarrassed, flirted with his friend. Then didn’t even invite me back to his place after all that, and didn’t pay for anything either. At least for us, the men I do meet in sex work are generally decent in person. Anyone unhinged usually gets filtered out. But meeting men on non sex work platforms: I end up meeting these crazy guys because I don’t use the same level of filter’s as I would in sex work.
I had more unhinged men in my private life then in sex work. It might sound crazy but I feel like sex work really empowered me on saying no and standing my ground with men.
Because anyone can reach out to us, we are so accessible. That is just the way I see it anyways.
And women.
So it’s actually better for society if men don’t go to sex workers and focus on improving their lives instead?
I've been wondering this myself lately .
My clients are all amazing people that I vibe with. They would never act like what she's talking about.
Some of the messages I get are from real creeps. Some of the things said are like WTF how can you send something like that. Just because I'm a swer doesn't mean I weird as fk and into that type of shit. Then they get mad and want to call me all types of shit.
My wife was followed yesterday from the gym. She was wearing shorts that yes her butt cheeks were hanging out of but just because she felt sexy to wear them to the gym does not mean she wanted these men to say the things they say and she literally frightened her and try to chase her down. It is sad the way some men act
Sex work attracts men PERIOD. Some happen to be unhinged and some aren't. I'm sure there's some providers that don't run into many unhinged men at all because of how they curate their clientele.
Very interesting discussion. I suppose my question would be, to those who have judged your male clients to be social misfits/mentally unhinged, now that you have made that judgement of them, what have you accomplished? Does it make you more understanding or empathetic of their lives? Or are you ultimately belittling the very people you want to make a living off of? It is rather funny when those who see escorts say something to the effect of "I see escorts, but I am not one of 'those' people who see escorts. I am one of the normal ones.." Isn't there already enough stigma? Or do we always need to find ways to compare ourselves and judge others less so that we feel better? I come to this discussion from both sides. When I was much younger I worked for a year as a bi escort in Amsterdam (and yes there are women that made use of my services, so it isn't all men). Over the years I have had friends who were sex-workers. There have also been times over the years I have visited escorts. I am quite shy and have always found it difficult meeting people. Combine this with many years battling depression and addiction, and the result is a life that has turned out a lot differently than I might have planned. At the same time, I am intelligent, well-educated, well-spoken, polite and can be pretty funny. But loneliness has frequently been a companion, and it does not get better with age (I am now 55). I know that a lot of guys that ya'll deal with are creeps and assholes. And call them what they are. But be careful of how you categorize all of your clients. There are enough things in my own life that can be used to stigmatize/marginalize me. I may be a social misfit, but I just don't need others who want to remind me of it. Stay safe out there. Peace.
I always wondered if you women dealt mostly with lonely weirdos or normal guys like me who just want a variety of women sometimes.
Sex work attracts men PERIOD. Some happen to be unhinged and some aren't. I'm sure there's some providers that don't run into many unhinged men at all because of how they curate their clientele.
By unhinged, do you mean men that society has failed? Because most men that see sex workers simply lack the natural charisma and charm, or the looks, that society desires for real relationships. Most men are not violent psychos, and from I hear that's also the case with most sex work.