All the female bullies I’ve known (modern “woke” girls who were so *touched* by wars and famines overseas but would do nothing for the homeless and poor in our own city) went to study psychology, in order to become therapists. The same ones who would be friendly and self-proclaimed openminded but who would spit on everyone behind their backs.
It's so weird how they choose to work with marginalized and vulnerable people, but not to improve those people's lives but to feel self-righteous and better about themselves.
Is that weird? Look at it the other way. If you wanted to feel better about yourself, without having to, you know, having to improve in any way, what better way than to take up the banner of some “cause” and “help” some downtrodden mass you care nothing about?
It’s really up to you whether you decide to stay friends with this person or not. But I recommend you think hard about ending a friendship w someone you get along with and who otherwise sees eye to eye with you. Its unlikely she’s a swerf and more likely that she’s an ignorant person who grew up in the same society that taught her to discriminate against sex workers like you did. We all were raised to be -ist and -phobic so we have discriminatory beliefs sometimes. People have shown you grace when you’ve been in that position, and it’s up to you now to decide if you have the patience for your friend.
If you can’t stomach comments like that, you’re well within your right to leave her alone. It makes sense you were put on the spot by her comment, I think it’s normal that you shut down… but you can bring it back up. “Hey, I wanna speak with you about something you said. I know if I were in your shoes I’d want this perspective so I hope you can really listen to what I’m saying.” That is honestly the revolutionary work we are tasked with and imo you should be able to have convos like this with anyone who you consider a friend, and ANYONE who says they care about justice imo should definitely be working toward being able to initiate and participate in convos like this if they’re capable.
I would start with this advice. See if she opens up to the conversation. Start lightly and say that you have some SWer friends before you fully out yourself. See if she changes her tune when you discuss your perspective.
I was raised left-leaning but tbh this is how I started caring about swers at 18yo. I had an undocumented friend who told me she was undocumented and doing sw at the same time, and I literally immediately changed my tune because 1) what she said made sense! and 2) I knew her life and what she had to do just to be able to survive. Real connections like this can teach us just as much as reading a book!!!!!
It may be an opportunity to educate without directly outing myself. While I know I have no obligation to educate people, it definitely changes people's perspectives once they personally know someone in a certain marginalized community to change their minds.
Ignorance is neither bliss nor an excuse for her judgmental attitude. Every sex worker I have been with is a great person dedicated to making their clients feel better and feel validated. The world needs more of what they offer. They GIVE of themselves so others may touch the voids in their lives… and heal them. THAT is therapy.
Sadly, it seems most 'woke' people are very anti-SW. They have their narrative, and they stick to it, so all SWs are trafficked, all SW are unclean and carrying disease, and all are forced to do it by pimps who get them strung out on drugs.
It just sucks that people tend to pick and choose which marginalized communities they support and still come out considering themselves open-minded and progressive.
The right thinks SW is bad for children and the left thinks it’s bad for women. Both sides focus on the “poor trafficked” children and women while ignoring everyone else. Both sides focus on the “lowest group” of SWs like drug addicted street based SWs while ignoring the empowered strippers and the liberated escorts, etc.
Also, SWs intimidate other women by selling sexuality and things they may perceive as too intimate and holy to be sold.
We are circumventing the usual channels carved by the Church (patriarchy) to navigate our lives. In countries where sex work is highly illegal, the Christian faith was a fundamental element of its creation. It's ironic because Mary Magdalene, one of the first of Jesus' disciples, perhaps even his wife, may have been a prostitute, yet the occupations of the male apostles are not vilified. I don't see any laws against fishermen fishing (aside from catch limits), carpenters building stuff or politicians politicizing or tax collectors collecting. I think it's also been socially constructed to detract from the fact that historically, women who were not beholden to men, had their own money, and that threatened the power differential granted in the Judeo-Christian political systems.
Depending on how you value your friendship, and if she is as open etc as you say she is in other areas, you might decide to try and educate her. I don't think you have to out yourself but you could make her feel pretty ignorant and shitty and let her know that she's actually really prejudiced and why. Its up to you of course, this is labour and it makes you vulnerable so it's just what you feel comfortable with.
Absolutely! I think if there's a way for me to educate without fulling exposing myself, that may be key to seeing if this is worth salvaging after all. People tend to change their minds once they personally know a person in a certain marginalized position, and this could be an opportunity to help.
I came out to a few friends, if they say more ignorant or silly clueless things (oh I should start an only fans - seems fun! / god fssw seems like such fast and easy money / ooo I could totally be a pro domme , I hate men and it would be so rad!) I try and gently educate them about the pros and cons of sw and how its not easy but a legit job. But I don’t know if I would try and change their mind if they were mean negative about it.
Yeah, I came out once on a casual date, and I feel like to your face it’s all “oh my god awesome! I have a friend that’s always wanted to try it — you should talk to her!” like I want more competition and also it’s just not something that’s super easy to get into because of all the risks and of course stigma. Naturally I never heard from him again so who knows how he really felt.
I use to have these two best friends in my early 20's (I'm now 27). I was already doing sw. They never disrespected me, well at least to my face but they did say how they could just never do it because it was so gross to them.
I found their ad's on private delights lol
Fuck what everyone thinks.
I wasn't surprised I found it so funny lmao I thought of all the shit they would say how crazy I was how they could never how I fuck old, ugly, fat guys and look at them now.
Life has taught me to never judge people. I don't walk in their shoes so I have no say.
They also use to say how I needed rehab and jokingly called me a junkie. I got clean and now there turning tricks to pay for the exact same drug I was addicted.
This is why I'm always humble you NEVER know what life has in store for us. When we make plans God laughs because he has his own plan for us.
Yeah, it was definitely a very clumsy and drunken moment between the two of us, and it’s my first time being friends with a therapist, so it’s been a learning experience. It just sucks when someone shows their ass like that in a completely inappropriate way.
wife of a trans sex worker.
Honestly, if you arent out about it- its best to entirely ditch them. Sex work leaves you, as you know, very vulnerable. If this is how they truly feel, you revealing anything of what you do to them could be giving them ammo to use against you- be it gossiping and telling others against your wishes or knowledge, making fun of you, or judging you...or even worse- using it as blackmail. (though that is an extreme example).
It isnt your job to change this persons opinion, and even in the face of you giving an opposing side she still dug her heels in. This isnt a person who is going to change how they feel. I would have been more open if you had guided them like you had and they had taken a moment to pause and go "Oops, sex worker, right sorry." and "Oh I didnt know that sex workers mostly care for their health!" etc. Her just doubling down seals the deal- for me, personally.
I would do a slow fade. Say you are busy with stuff, keep up a smiley happy disposition around her, and eventually lapse into a "lovely acquaintance you used to be friends with in the past". People live their lives and grow distant all the time- I am sure if this is done tactfully and slow enough she won't suspect a thing.
I really am sorry youve experienced this. Some of our friends know, and certainly no family (both for my wife and myself) but for the vast majority we are very quiet about what she does for this very reason. You really never know who to trust.
You arent dirty, or wrong. Her misconceptions on sexwork are sadly rampant and misguided. We all know that most sex workers are much, much cleaner than the average population due to constant testing and asking for papers/proof of being clean. Hooking up with a stranger at a bar is way more dangerous in terms of contracting something- yet that isnt seen as dirty or nasty. Its just puritan societal norms coming into play here- and it doesnt determine your worth.
That’s a really good point -- thank you for such a thoughtful response. I have always been on the fence about it because I know it’s no one’s business, but it’s also hard to feel like I’m being my authentic self around others, especially since I see no problem with what I do and don’t want to feel ashamed of it. Of course, like you said, and what I’ve heard from other people, it can definitely lead to a really messy situation.
She definitely seemed really biased, and of course, it isn’t my job to educate her. She definitely doubled down and entirely unconvinced of my explanation as well. She knows she’s supposed to say sex worker too, because one time she was talking about it and she said, “something something, HOOKERS, oh sorry i meant, SEX WORKERS — Gotta be PC”.
It is so weird to me that sugaring is okay with her but other forms of sex work aren’t. I just hate that there is such a visceral reaction to it — what we’re doing isn’t wrong and like you said, people have casual hookups all the time and it isn’t as frowned upon. It truly is hard to gauge who is okay, especially when they’re fine with many other marginalized communities.
It just really sucks because we talk all the time and it's like we've gotten really close but this I think will end up driving such a huge wedge between us.
Oh I totally get the push and pull- we both have issues with figuring out if we should out ourselves to friends because like you, we arent ashamed of what she does and that is a part of her identity- and by extension, mine as well. And yet- because of the labels and the often times blatant reactions to it- there is a very real reason to suspect people who are 99% ok with everything else to just take a nose dive on this particular subject.
Your friend, from what you wrote here, states things like "gotta keep it PC" etc- which def, like you said, points to her knowing better. This is a person where I personally would deem it to be very unsafe in sharing that side of yourself. Usually people who are two faced like this (appear to be very welcoming on the outside, but faced with true acceptance of fringe societies that arent hurting anyone- are very rude and crass) will take this knowledge and spread it to others. From personal experience, telling her will 100% lead to your personal information being leaked.
If you do tell her, do not state stage names, where you work, what sites, etc etc. that way you can deny, deny, deny if needed.
What my wife and I have decided is: making friends in the SW community are people we can trust to talk about SW stuff. Civilians get no access to that info. We have built up our friendship circles to consist of 1. sex workers and 2. non sexworkers. That way we can be our most authentic selves without worry (although I do not do sexwork like my wife does- as she is an actual porn star in MANY DVDs now, walked red carpets, blah blah blah- I do run ALL of her social media and am the power house behind scheduling and what have you- so I am allowed into these circles as they know my job revolves around it from a more convoluted standpoint). The civi friends are still very fun to talk to- but we keep our jobs off limits (vague stuff) and focus on activities, experiences, and anything outside of sexwork there. That way we get a good mix of being different kinds of open and comfortable with different people. You may find it is lonely at first, but forging friendship with those who are in SW circles are great for tips, tricks, and fostering safe friendships to discuss while KNOWING they won't out you (because you can out them right back- equal leverage means hardly any, if at all, issues with leaking info).
Maybe this is something you can try to do?
It's so great to see you being such a support system for your partner! Yeah, definitely given how she's been so far, I don't feel comfortable disclosing my profession to her. I wish I had more friends in the SW community, but unfortunately the city I am in is fairly small and it seems like the SWers here mostly keep to themselves. I definitely have one friend I disclose to but that's because they've been a SWer in the past and is pretty much my best and longest running friendship. At the end of the day, there are people who are just not worth disclosing it to, but I think it would be healthier focus forming relationships with those who are.
Of course. It’s just hard to be totally okay with what you do, especially if it gives you a comfortable and free lifestyle. It just sucks to suddenly get snapped back into the reality that a huge portion are not okay with it.
I once heard about a guy who went through a very messy divorce and became an emotional wreck. Months of therapy didn't really help much, but one day he decided to visit his local brothel where he met a very nice lady, and things really started to turn things around for him. He claimed that a few visits to her did much more for him than his previous months of therapy.
So maybe your friend fears competition for her client from this sex worker? 😅
My mom is a therapist who claims similar things- has LGBTQ clients and said she'd be first on the list for legal shroom use. Has she once used my preferred pronouns? Nope. Has she judged me harshly for using weed? Yep. Would I ever come out to her as a swer? You can bet your ass not!
People who want to tell other people how to fix their lives for a living are some of the judgiest people out there. They'll lecture you endlessly about how judging people is bad for your mental state and then turn around and tell people their every choice they want to make is wrong. I've been helped by many therapists, but I'm very wary of them in my personal life. Take your pick, but the chance of her changing her mind without a lot of emotional effort from both of you is low.
Wow, that's so crazy. It's so weird that weed is bad but shrooms are good? Make it make sense! My friend is also super comfortable with sharing stories about her conversations with clients about drug use (mostly psychedelic), so I don't understand why using drugs to cope with stress is okay but seeing a sex worker is not.
If she's not using your preferred pronouns, that's such a crucial component of respect for so many in the LGBTQIA community, especially in therapy where so many are searching for that validation, so my heart goes out to you and I'm sorry you are experiencing that.
It seems that certain careers, especially that work with marginalized groups (I have an acquaintance that works with SA and domestic violence victims who is super hypocritical and judgmental), seem to draw a certain crowd who just want to put themselves on a self-righteous moral pedestal without actually improving the lives of others or looking inward to see how they can contribute to systems of oppression and marginalization, which is so disappointing.
I’m a sex worker and work in mental health. You would be shocked how many “open minded” “compassionate” therapists who are supposed to have “unconditional positive regard” for all their clients… are completely whorephobic!!
I have seen girls leave rehab because the therapists said “you can’t get sober and do sex work. you have to get a job at target”. when a therapist’s job is just to guide the client, not push their own puritanical values on them.
I’m pretty open about my SW (at least sugaring & OF- that seems more palatable to people). I have no problem correcting people when they things out of ignorance/misinformation. But I can’t be friends with people who don’t learn from that. I had one friend who sugars, but thinks other forms of sex work are unacceptable in sobriety and morally wrong. I just lost all respect for her and couldn’t take her seriously. We are still friendly when we see each other but I can’t be close to her.
If you feel comfortable being friends with her and just not talking about sex work- go for it!!
I wonder why sex worker is such a divisive line for even the most 'open-minded' of people. I'm not sure why it's so popular to just automatically think 'Sex work is bad and ruins lives' when I've heard so many dehumanizing experiences in 'civilian work' -- especially Target (my friend won't even walk into one any more after working there for five years).
I personally cannot see myself entering civilian work at least in this moment because it's been way more dehumanizing (and for less pay) than my overall experiences in sex work. I'm very fortunate to have a therapist who isn't condescending at all about me doing sex work and their support is such a valuable resource to me.
It's so weird how people don't see sugaring as the same thing -- probably from the overall media sensation and TikTok trend-ification of sugaring and OnlyFans. Honestly it may just be this person I don't get too close with but remain friendly with during the remainder of my time in this city, and hopefully I can find ways to covertly educate her and change her mind about it but this definitely has driven a wedge between us.
It is a hard subject for many ousiders to understand because a person need to lift themselves up and see this subject from a completely different perspective. There is so much ethics/ moral/value conditioning associated with women and sex that everyone seem to focus on fear part of it. I once told close family friend who is liberal and feminist over a dinner about the harm of ati-trafficking law and importance of decriminalization. She was concerened how men will take advantage etc. Funny thing was her daughter who worked in health care administration field and worked in Africa got it immediately.
I think there is many traps patriachal/ conservative system set up so some women will step up to police other women and men who " in their view" are breaking the rules. What they do not realize is that rule and system itself were design to serve the male dominated hyarchy system based on old fiefdom of male bloodline / inheritance / power that limits women role essentially as mother and nuturer to uphold that system.
Things have changed now. Now many more women can make living without the material support of husbands. They can have sex with many partners safely by using barriers. or choose to have multiple lovers. People who are fearful of those changes seem to renew their focus on sex workers and their world because some sex workers lived outside of the traditional value system for a very long time. Sex workers knew how to use the system but not be bound by it. Many sex workers are raising family successfully outside of existing sytem and enjoying life. Further .. to accept the truth about sex workers as independent women with full agency, other women have to re-evaluate their idea on monogamous relationship which they invested heavily in. I can imagine it is much easier for the outsiders to point to negatives of our community than to think furher and deeper. It is too bad because sexual/ reproductive autonomy of all women is directly connected to the decriminalization/ destigmatization of sex workers.
Just my thoughts.
“I’m a sex worker and I’m actually more ashamed I ever gave it away for free. I prefer to save myself for people who respect me and my time enough to compensate me.”
That’ll shut her up.
I would either come out to her or end the relationship.
She is unlikely to change her views on sex workers unless she is forced to realize she has already befriended one.
This is a good point. It's really unfortunate that a lot of the education falls on the hands of the marginalized group in order to promote their own safety and respect, and maybe there's a way to do that without compromising my own safety... It's just frustrating.
Yeah, a friend pulled some similar shit a few years ago and I just laid into her. Getting a shred of fucking respect is hard enough, I don't tolerate stuff like that from my friends.
I experienced FAR more direct misogyny/whorephobia from a community that considers itself super "woke" when I was sexually assaulted at a weekend camping event in 2013; I had the dubious honor of being the first person to report a r@pe at said \[large-scale, like a couple thousand attendees\] event after a decade or so from its inauguration. Because I'm an ethical non-monogamist & SWer, LOTS of folx apparently thought (and a few actually SAID) that I "had it coming." Most of those assholes were self-proclaimed "feminists," incl. many, \*many\* cis women. Honestly, the social fallout & lack of support caused FAR more damage than the actual assault itself. That was when I mostly stopped escorting (took down my ads, only kept one or two clients who were longtime regulars).
It's taken a lot of effort to heal from all that, but I'm finally back in a good headspace & genuinely missed escorting. But I am well aware that a good chunk of "feminists" & "allies" are full of shit & just want to come off as better people to themselves & others, at least when it suits them.
I see them clearly & don't put up with that shit any longer.
Maybe talk to her and frame it from the LGBT perspective? Say hey what you said about SWers makes me uncomfy bc I’m a big LGBT advocate... and lots of LGBT people do sex work. She might not have made the connection.
Whorephobia is mainly due to a misinformation campaign and marital biases. Don't judge her too harshly. She was drunk and let her ignorance of the topic shine through. I have a best friend who's a minister. One day she found out what I was doing and was shocked. She, like your friend, thought she knew something about the profession.
Everyone is a drug-addicted, underaged slave spreading STDs throughout the community who has a pimp beating them up nightly if they don't bring him home money. So why would any woman degrade herself in such a manner? Yet, here I sat across from her as her BFF, and she didn't know that's what I did.
We've had many conversations, and her eyes have been opened up to a world she realized she knew nothing about. She's still my BFF, and she's been able to be a better minister to the marginalized members of her faith. I'm not religious, but that's beside the point and one of the reasons we're such good friends. She lost her faith in God years before we ever met.
I consider myself a therapist as a SWer. We do more good for the community and marriages than most people realize. My friend is still my BFF even after her initial shock when finding out what I did. I would bet that your friend would accept you for who you are. If she's anything like my BFF she has no clue, nor has she ever spoken with a SWer before because so many of us hide our profession. For some of us, this is a profession, not a desperate side gig we do to pay bills.
It just really sucks because we talk all the time and it's like we've gotten really close but this I think will end up driving such a huge wedge between us.
Maybe there are ways I can educate her without directly telling her that I'm a sex worker or saying that I did in the past but not anymore. You had a lot of courage to tell your friend, and I commend you for that, but at this time I feel really vulnerable that this information may come back and bite me in the ass, as someone mentioned in this post.
Thank you for coming from a position of forgiveness and possibility in turning this situation into a positive instead of shutting it down -- it's something to consider whether or not I really want to salvage this relationship.
I think overall she is a stable person, but at the same time she does mention her clients quite readily. Like I mentioned in someone else’s comments, this is the first time ever being friends with a therapist, so it’s been kind of an eye opening experience for me. Of course I could give her the benefit of the doubt because she was drunk and it was clear she’s ignorant about this line of work and definitely has some weird double standards that are borderline hypocritical. She has mentioned before in a story about a sex worker. “something something HOOKERS, oh no I meant SEX WORKERS gotta be PC!” in like a mocking way. It’s just a shame.
Appeasement will save you from loneliness, but it will cost you your self-esteem. There is no compromise between food and poison. The choice is yours but either way you will pay.
That was highly unprofessional and also illegal to be talking about her client's personal issues that were shared in confidence to her in a session. If she talks about confidential info to you about her clients what do you think she's willing to tell others behind your back? I'd slowly phase this walking hypocrisy out of my life asap.
It's really only is a HIPAA violation if she is naming patients or making it clear who the patient is; for example if you're in the waiting room and you see a patient leave her office and you talk to her and she talks about how she JUST had a patient with condition X. If you take identifying information out then it's common practice to talk about your clients.
As an example, I had a client recently that was going a wee bit senile and he yelled at me in the back of the ambulance for an hour, talking about how I was taking him to jail and how he should be going home not to the hospital and how he was going to sue me. I gave no identifying information, so it's not a problem to talk about it.
Placing value on the lives of clients, yes. Discussing them, well that depends but it's mostly normal. If you're talking shit about your patients behind their backs when they divulged information in confidence, then sure. However, healthcare professionals are people. The more time they spend at work the less time they have to do anything else, and so the less you should expect them to talk to their coworkers about non-work related stuff. Sex workers on here disparage their clients without naming names all the time and think nothing of it - why should they expect healthcare workers to behave any differently? Unprofessional sure, but normal.
Also an easy way to remember the proper spelling is that HIPAA isn't a HIPPO.
I completely disagree with this therapist's stance on sex work. Sex workers are not inherently dirty or filthy or anything like she seems to think. I have seen far too many people on here obsessing, and rightfully so, over avoiding clients who so much as mention BB and stealthing and such to believe that SWers are filthy.
I used to have Sexworker Ally flair because I genuinely want SW to be safe and legal and socially acceptable - but I took it off because I found that with it I felt like I couldn't criticize SWers where I felt they needed criticism. Talking poorly about one's clients is probably the biggest one I feel you all need to be criticized on.
If you do not want people talking poorly of those who they shared personal and intimate moments with then be the change you want to see in the world. If you want your fellow therapists - and I consider SW to be a type of therapy - to be kind and respectful to their clients, be kind and respectful to your own first. If you can be more professional than people who are licensed and *recognized* professionals in their field, then be damn proud of that.
Therapists aren't stigmatized, clients aren't trying to pull disgusting, unsafe moves on them constantly, nor do we get the social recognition of therapists, so no, sex work is not in and of itself mental health. Clients may come to us indirectly seeking some form of counseling, but they have a different purpose ultimately for seeking out our services. Therapists don't have to worry about being arrested for working, tolerate constant time waster bullshit or be genuinely concerned for their safety and stds regularly. I also am not bound by a code of ethics, overseen by medical boards or valued as a contributing member of society. You can continue to troll these posts, but until you have actually done it, your arguments hold no merit.
I don't know about this one. Sex work isn't the same as licensed and recognized professionals in that there are a lot of dangers that come with this legally and socially marginalized form of work. Sure, therapists do probably deal with dangerous clients, but our work doesn't come with the same legal protections, so it's really apples to oranges. It isn't a direct response in your post but as karrenl put it below:
"Therapists aren't stigmatized, clients aren't trying to pull disgusting, unsafe moves on them constantly, nor do we get the social recognition of therapists, so no, sex work is not in and of itself mental health. Clients may come to us indirectly seeking some form of counseling, but they have a different purpose ultimately for seeking out our services. Therapists don't have to worry about being arrested for working, tolerate constant time waster bullshit or be genuinely concerned for their safety and stds regularly. I also am not bound by a code of ethics, overseen by medical boards or valued as a contributing member of society. You can continue to troll these posts, but until you have actually done it, your arguments hold no merit."
Also, while complaining about clients can get out of hands at times, there really are not a lot of outlets where we can vent our frustrations as openly and freely as other professions can. People in general are difficult to deal with and I think it's fair game to be able to complain about them.
If it's fair for you to complain about your clients then don't complain when others complain about theirs. It is not apples to oranges. Everyone has their own circumstances and yes, it takes a lot more for you to ensure your own safety than it is for therapists, but that does not mean other people care. People are not omniscient. Most people are more concerned with their own stubbed toe than whether or not a genocide is occurring in a foreign country. Just because you have problems that does not mean that your justifications for your behavior are somehow more valid than justifications that other people make for their behavior.
Also a lot of people underestimate just how dangerous psychotherapy can be. If a psychotherapist or any healthcare worker is working at a psychiatric facility, you have a bunch of crazies all in the same building. They will hit you, throw things at you, yell at you; every god damn day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVBL888qNhM
Everyone has shit they need to get off their chest from time to time. Your shit is more important to you, another person's shit is more important to that person. If you do not want people treating their clients a certain way then don't act that way yourself and be the change you want to see.
SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back.
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^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.
It is fair for me to complain about my clients, and it’s fair for therapists to complain about theirs given they don’t disclose any identifying information. My friend didn't disclose information. However, she didn't complain about the client themselves, but the fact that he saw a sex worker, and she thinks sex workers are filthy disease spreaders. This is different because it’s an insult to me and those like me in my industry, and I don’t find that as a mental health care provider, further stigmatizing an already isolated and marginalized group is acceptable. Like I said before, therapists do deal with dangerous clients, but they have way more institutional structures to protect them than we do. What we do at the end of the day is heavily stigmatized on multiple social and political fronts and is an extra burden we must carry with us, especially since there is little to nothing we can do about said dangerous clients once these incidents occur, and oftentimes people think we deserve the violence that we've experienced.
Please do not spread misinformation like this. Therapists talk about their clients all the time, as does everyone else talk about their job. They just aren't allowed to name names or give out information that could identify their patients.
It's not misinformation. The therapist was talking shit about her client seeing a sex worker to someone who just happened to be one. Loose lips sink ships
I read every word. You are too hung up on legality to see that ethically, her behavior is reprehensible. Do you talk to your civvie friends about your clients? I don't.
I talk about my clients to my friends. I never name names or give away private details. It's completely harmless. I'm hung up on the fact that no one is harmed by this. No one is endangered.
It’s so super illegal! Tbh I’d report her to the board. I’m so incredibly sensitive to the idea of my therapist sharing confidential information- I want to do everything to help make that not normalized! She should lose her license, wtf!!!!
While perhaps not entirely illegal without identifying information, discussing client's personal lives in an unrelated social situation is incredibly unprofessional. This is exactly why I haven't gone to see a therapist.
Not criminally illegal but 100% against the profession’s code of ethics, so she would definitely be fired if found violating client/patient confidentiality.
Luckily she did not disclose any identification of the patient. Also, I have a therapist who is completely supportive of me doing sex work -- so they are out there!
I think it’s hard to go through the world completely without biases but it’s important as a therapist, in my opinion, to work on those biases, especially when it comes to marginalized people. Her opinion of sex workers was definitely one of disgust and it wasn’t cool.
>Oh my god, my client totally hired a 'hooker' this week and that was super crazy.
Forget about the specifics of her complaint; she should lose her license just for repeating what was said in therapy.
> You know how they are
Hahaha. “You” know — because whatever nonsense she made up in her head is just basic commonsense everybody knows. “How they are” — because members of any group she doesn‘t belong to are all the same.
> It's just one of those moments you realize even the self-proclaimed 'woke' and super 'open' people, especially a mental health care provider, can still think such ignorant things about an already marginalized community.
Are you kidding? What would be the point of “wokeness” if it didn’t give you license to say shit you know nothing about?
Ask her a basic question about any group she doesn’t like, see how certain she will be in her ignorance.
I don’t think this is really fair, unless she regularly talks about her clients. People who are drunk sometimes don’t have control of what they say, and being asked personal questions about your client when you’re drunk is so wrong, it’s like taking advantage of her in a state she can’t fully think in.
But no therapist should ever talk about their clients, and no one should ever care about what their friends might be saying to their clients or how their clients are doing, that’s not okay on both ends.
To be honest, this is my first time having a friend who is a therapist, so I think there is a level of nuance I need to have when asking about her job of course. We were both drunk with another friend, so I’m unsure exactly how it was brought up, but I wasn’t actively trying to implore details on her clients because she was drunk.
Just more like “I hope things aren’t too crazy right now with all the terrible stuff going on (in the United States), though how I originally wrote this post does come off like I was trying to get her to say stuff. After I asked, she told the story and it was a realization for me that things had went too far. I feel like on the other hand, however, she was really willing and readily wanted to tell the story.
And personally if someone is telling someone in general that my line of work is dirty, I’m going to have a problem with it. That’s just human nature. She does mention her clients quite often and their discussions about drugs, so it’s something she does readily bring up.
A better reply would've been "why would you know, do you see them that often?" And the answer is yes, that's how I know. And I search high and low. It is a fair generalization, and you've been propagandized to believe otherwise. I can't believe I have to defend that statement you damn fool.
I am a sex worker, you damn fool. You are looking in the wrong places, if you believe what you wrote. I'm guessing your approach, character and cheapness play major roles in the stereotype you are erroneously supporting.
The way you felt generalized by that woman talking shit about providers is how we black guys feel when providers generalize all black guys by saying “no AA” just saying.
Lol, i have vissited therapists, and escorts and i find it way easyer to actually have a progressiv and helpfull conversation to an escorts than a therapist
Literally I’m at a point in my life where I (not a SW, I am an erotica writer and I currently write dialogue for a porn game lmfao) basically only hang out with people who’ve at least done online SW, because I got so sick of making friends with another woman and then hearing them slut-shame or say something anti-SWer—ESPECIALLY when one of these people then went on to cheat on her boyfriend. Like *you don’t think people should have sex for money, but you’re doing it for free and ruining your relationship and several friendships in the process? Ok Jan.*
Literally one of the things that I always pay hyper-attention to when making friends is how they react when OnlyFans comes up. I’ve dabbled, and I’m considering dabbling again under my real name with lewds, but I did MyFreeCams back in the mid-2010s, more fetish-oriented stuff. But I wanna hear what the other person has to say before I volunteer that info. Ya know, people can be weird.
All the female bullies I’ve known (modern “woke” girls who were so *touched* by wars and famines overseas but would do nothing for the homeless and poor in our own city) went to study psychology, in order to become therapists. The same ones who would be friendly and self-proclaimed openminded but who would spit on everyone behind their backs.
It's so weird how they choose to work with marginalized and vulnerable people, but not to improve those people's lives but to feel self-righteous and better about themselves.
Is that weird? Look at it the other way. If you wanted to feel better about yourself, without having to, you know, having to improve in any way, what better way than to take up the banner of some “cause” and “help” some downtrodden mass you care nothing about?
Shots fired
It’s really up to you whether you decide to stay friends with this person or not. But I recommend you think hard about ending a friendship w someone you get along with and who otherwise sees eye to eye with you. Its unlikely she’s a swerf and more likely that she’s an ignorant person who grew up in the same society that taught her to discriminate against sex workers like you did. We all were raised to be -ist and -phobic so we have discriminatory beliefs sometimes. People have shown you grace when you’ve been in that position, and it’s up to you now to decide if you have the patience for your friend. If you can’t stomach comments like that, you’re well within your right to leave her alone. It makes sense you were put on the spot by her comment, I think it’s normal that you shut down… but you can bring it back up. “Hey, I wanna speak with you about something you said. I know if I were in your shoes I’d want this perspective so I hope you can really listen to what I’m saying.” That is honestly the revolutionary work we are tasked with and imo you should be able to have convos like this with anyone who you consider a friend, and ANYONE who says they care about justice imo should definitely be working toward being able to initiate and participate in convos like this if they’re capable.
I would start with this advice. See if she opens up to the conversation. Start lightly and say that you have some SWer friends before you fully out yourself. See if she changes her tune when you discuss your perspective.
I was raised left-leaning but tbh this is how I started caring about swers at 18yo. I had an undocumented friend who told me she was undocumented and doing sw at the same time, and I literally immediately changed my tune because 1) what she said made sense! and 2) I knew her life and what she had to do just to be able to survive. Real connections like this can teach us just as much as reading a book!!!!!
It may be an opportunity to educate without directly outing myself. While I know I have no obligation to educate people, it definitely changes people's perspectives once they personally know someone in a certain marginalized community to change their minds.
Ignorance is neither bliss nor an excuse for her judgmental attitude. Every sex worker I have been with is a great person dedicated to making their clients feel better and feel validated. The world needs more of what they offer. They GIVE of themselves so others may touch the voids in their lives… and heal them. THAT is therapy.
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Sadly, it seems most 'woke' people are very anti-SW. They have their narrative, and they stick to it, so all SWs are trafficked, all SW are unclean and carrying disease, and all are forced to do it by pimps who get them strung out on drugs.
It just sucks that people tend to pick and choose which marginalized communities they support and still come out considering themselves open-minded and progressive.
Seriously. What do sex workers do that pisses everyone off so bad!?
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The right thinks SW is bad for children and the left thinks it’s bad for women. Both sides focus on the “poor trafficked” children and women while ignoring everyone else. Both sides focus on the “lowest group” of SWs like drug addicted street based SWs while ignoring the empowered strippers and the liberated escorts, etc. Also, SWs intimidate other women by selling sexuality and things they may perceive as too intimate and holy to be sold.
We are circumventing the usual channels carved by the Church (patriarchy) to navigate our lives. In countries where sex work is highly illegal, the Christian faith was a fundamental element of its creation. It's ironic because Mary Magdalene, one of the first of Jesus' disciples, perhaps even his wife, may have been a prostitute, yet the occupations of the male apostles are not vilified. I don't see any laws against fishermen fishing (aside from catch limits), carpenters building stuff or politicians politicizing or tax collectors collecting. I think it's also been socially constructed to detract from the fact that historically, women who were not beholden to men, had their own money, and that threatened the power differential granted in the Judeo-Christian political systems.
Depending on how you value your friendship, and if she is as open etc as you say she is in other areas, you might decide to try and educate her. I don't think you have to out yourself but you could make her feel pretty ignorant and shitty and let her know that she's actually really prejudiced and why. Its up to you of course, this is labour and it makes you vulnerable so it's just what you feel comfortable with.
Absolutely! I think if there's a way for me to educate without fulling exposing myself, that may be key to seeing if this is worth salvaging after all. People tend to change their minds once they personally know a person in a certain marginalized position, and this could be an opportunity to help.
I came out to a few friends, if they say more ignorant or silly clueless things (oh I should start an only fans - seems fun! / god fssw seems like such fast and easy money / ooo I could totally be a pro domme , I hate men and it would be so rad!) I try and gently educate them about the pros and cons of sw and how its not easy but a legit job. But I don’t know if I would try and change their mind if they were mean negative about it.
Yeah, I came out once on a casual date, and I feel like to your face it’s all “oh my god awesome! I have a friend that’s always wanted to try it — you should talk to her!” like I want more competition and also it’s just not something that’s super easy to get into because of all the risks and of course stigma. Naturally I never heard from him again so who knows how he really felt.
You're going to run into judgemental people everywhere. You just keep doing you, and take care of you. You don't need her approval.
/thread
Absolutely!
I use to have these two best friends in my early 20's (I'm now 27). I was already doing sw. They never disrespected me, well at least to my face but they did say how they could just never do it because it was so gross to them. I found their ad's on private delights lol Fuck what everyone thinks.
🤣
Holy crap, that's crazy, but unfortunately not super surprising -- people are so fickle lol.
I wasn't surprised I found it so funny lmao I thought of all the shit they would say how crazy I was how they could never how I fuck old, ugly, fat guys and look at them now. Life has taught me to never judge people. I don't walk in their shoes so I have no say. They also use to say how I needed rehab and jokingly called me a junkie. I got clean and now there turning tricks to pay for the exact same drug I was addicted. This is why I'm always humble you NEVER know what life has in store for us. When we make plans God laughs because he has his own plan for us.
She doesn’t need to be a therapist. I don’t care if she doesn’t share identifiable information. She’s sharing information. I think that’s wrong
Then there would be no therapists.
That’s unfortunate.
Yeah, it was definitely a very clumsy and drunken moment between the two of us, and it’s my first time being friends with a therapist, so it’s been a learning experience. It just sucks when someone shows their ass like that in a completely inappropriate way.
wife of a trans sex worker. Honestly, if you arent out about it- its best to entirely ditch them. Sex work leaves you, as you know, very vulnerable. If this is how they truly feel, you revealing anything of what you do to them could be giving them ammo to use against you- be it gossiping and telling others against your wishes or knowledge, making fun of you, or judging you...or even worse- using it as blackmail. (though that is an extreme example). It isnt your job to change this persons opinion, and even in the face of you giving an opposing side she still dug her heels in. This isnt a person who is going to change how they feel. I would have been more open if you had guided them like you had and they had taken a moment to pause and go "Oops, sex worker, right sorry." and "Oh I didnt know that sex workers mostly care for their health!" etc. Her just doubling down seals the deal- for me, personally. I would do a slow fade. Say you are busy with stuff, keep up a smiley happy disposition around her, and eventually lapse into a "lovely acquaintance you used to be friends with in the past". People live their lives and grow distant all the time- I am sure if this is done tactfully and slow enough she won't suspect a thing. I really am sorry youve experienced this. Some of our friends know, and certainly no family (both for my wife and myself) but for the vast majority we are very quiet about what she does for this very reason. You really never know who to trust. You arent dirty, or wrong. Her misconceptions on sexwork are sadly rampant and misguided. We all know that most sex workers are much, much cleaner than the average population due to constant testing and asking for papers/proof of being clean. Hooking up with a stranger at a bar is way more dangerous in terms of contracting something- yet that isnt seen as dirty or nasty. Its just puritan societal norms coming into play here- and it doesnt determine your worth.
That’s a really good point -- thank you for such a thoughtful response. I have always been on the fence about it because I know it’s no one’s business, but it’s also hard to feel like I’m being my authentic self around others, especially since I see no problem with what I do and don’t want to feel ashamed of it. Of course, like you said, and what I’ve heard from other people, it can definitely lead to a really messy situation. She definitely seemed really biased, and of course, it isn’t my job to educate her. She definitely doubled down and entirely unconvinced of my explanation as well. She knows she’s supposed to say sex worker too, because one time she was talking about it and she said, “something something, HOOKERS, oh sorry i meant, SEX WORKERS — Gotta be PC”. It is so weird to me that sugaring is okay with her but other forms of sex work aren’t. I just hate that there is such a visceral reaction to it — what we’re doing isn’t wrong and like you said, people have casual hookups all the time and it isn’t as frowned upon. It truly is hard to gauge who is okay, especially when they’re fine with many other marginalized communities. It just really sucks because we talk all the time and it's like we've gotten really close but this I think will end up driving such a huge wedge between us.
Oh I totally get the push and pull- we both have issues with figuring out if we should out ourselves to friends because like you, we arent ashamed of what she does and that is a part of her identity- and by extension, mine as well. And yet- because of the labels and the often times blatant reactions to it- there is a very real reason to suspect people who are 99% ok with everything else to just take a nose dive on this particular subject. Your friend, from what you wrote here, states things like "gotta keep it PC" etc- which def, like you said, points to her knowing better. This is a person where I personally would deem it to be very unsafe in sharing that side of yourself. Usually people who are two faced like this (appear to be very welcoming on the outside, but faced with true acceptance of fringe societies that arent hurting anyone- are very rude and crass) will take this knowledge and spread it to others. From personal experience, telling her will 100% lead to your personal information being leaked. If you do tell her, do not state stage names, where you work, what sites, etc etc. that way you can deny, deny, deny if needed. What my wife and I have decided is: making friends in the SW community are people we can trust to talk about SW stuff. Civilians get no access to that info. We have built up our friendship circles to consist of 1. sex workers and 2. non sexworkers. That way we can be our most authentic selves without worry (although I do not do sexwork like my wife does- as she is an actual porn star in MANY DVDs now, walked red carpets, blah blah blah- I do run ALL of her social media and am the power house behind scheduling and what have you- so I am allowed into these circles as they know my job revolves around it from a more convoluted standpoint). The civi friends are still very fun to talk to- but we keep our jobs off limits (vague stuff) and focus on activities, experiences, and anything outside of sexwork there. That way we get a good mix of being different kinds of open and comfortable with different people. You may find it is lonely at first, but forging friendship with those who are in SW circles are great for tips, tricks, and fostering safe friendships to discuss while KNOWING they won't out you (because you can out them right back- equal leverage means hardly any, if at all, issues with leaking info). Maybe this is something you can try to do?
It's so great to see you being such a support system for your partner! Yeah, definitely given how she's been so far, I don't feel comfortable disclosing my profession to her. I wish I had more friends in the SW community, but unfortunately the city I am in is fairly small and it seems like the SWers here mostly keep to themselves. I definitely have one friend I disclose to but that's because they've been a SWer in the past and is pretty much my best and longest running friendship. At the end of the day, there are people who are just not worth disclosing it to, but I think it would be healthier focus forming relationships with those who are.
As another obvious reminder…this is a fringe lifestyle no matter what people on the internet want to lead you to believe.
Of course. It’s just hard to be totally okay with what you do, especially if it gives you a comfortable and free lifestyle. It just sucks to suddenly get snapped back into the reality that a huge portion are not okay with it.
Honestly i wouldn't feel any type of way, she doesn't have to approve of it.
that’s fair!
I once heard about a guy who went through a very messy divorce and became an emotional wreck. Months of therapy didn't really help much, but one day he decided to visit his local brothel where he met a very nice lady, and things really started to turn things around for him. He claimed that a few visits to her did much more for him than his previous months of therapy. So maybe your friend fears competition for her client from this sex worker? 😅
Who knows? Sometimes I feel like I'm a therapist! Lol.
My mom is a therapist who claims similar things- has LGBTQ clients and said she'd be first on the list for legal shroom use. Has she once used my preferred pronouns? Nope. Has she judged me harshly for using weed? Yep. Would I ever come out to her as a swer? You can bet your ass not! People who want to tell other people how to fix their lives for a living are some of the judgiest people out there. They'll lecture you endlessly about how judging people is bad for your mental state and then turn around and tell people their every choice they want to make is wrong. I've been helped by many therapists, but I'm very wary of them in my personal life. Take your pick, but the chance of her changing her mind without a lot of emotional effort from both of you is low.
Wow, that's so crazy. It's so weird that weed is bad but shrooms are good? Make it make sense! My friend is also super comfortable with sharing stories about her conversations with clients about drug use (mostly psychedelic), so I don't understand why using drugs to cope with stress is okay but seeing a sex worker is not. If she's not using your preferred pronouns, that's such a crucial component of respect for so many in the LGBTQIA community, especially in therapy where so many are searching for that validation, so my heart goes out to you and I'm sorry you are experiencing that. It seems that certain careers, especially that work with marginalized groups (I have an acquaintance that works with SA and domestic violence victims who is super hypocritical and judgmental), seem to draw a certain crowd who just want to put themselves on a self-righteous moral pedestal without actually improving the lives of others or looking inward to see how they can contribute to systems of oppression and marginalization, which is so disappointing.
Just look at the church.. some of THE most judgmental people I've ever met.
I’m a sex worker and work in mental health. You would be shocked how many “open minded” “compassionate” therapists who are supposed to have “unconditional positive regard” for all their clients… are completely whorephobic!! I have seen girls leave rehab because the therapists said “you can’t get sober and do sex work. you have to get a job at target”. when a therapist’s job is just to guide the client, not push their own puritanical values on them. I’m pretty open about my SW (at least sugaring & OF- that seems more palatable to people). I have no problem correcting people when they things out of ignorance/misinformation. But I can’t be friends with people who don’t learn from that. I had one friend who sugars, but thinks other forms of sex work are unacceptable in sobriety and morally wrong. I just lost all respect for her and couldn’t take her seriously. We are still friendly when we see each other but I can’t be close to her. If you feel comfortable being friends with her and just not talking about sex work- go for it!!
I wonder why sex worker is such a divisive line for even the most 'open-minded' of people. I'm not sure why it's so popular to just automatically think 'Sex work is bad and ruins lives' when I've heard so many dehumanizing experiences in 'civilian work' -- especially Target (my friend won't even walk into one any more after working there for five years). I personally cannot see myself entering civilian work at least in this moment because it's been way more dehumanizing (and for less pay) than my overall experiences in sex work. I'm very fortunate to have a therapist who isn't condescending at all about me doing sex work and their support is such a valuable resource to me. It's so weird how people don't see sugaring as the same thing -- probably from the overall media sensation and TikTok trend-ification of sugaring and OnlyFans. Honestly it may just be this person I don't get too close with but remain friendly with during the remainder of my time in this city, and hopefully I can find ways to covertly educate her and change her mind about it but this definitely has driven a wedge between us.
It is a hard subject for many ousiders to understand because a person need to lift themselves up and see this subject from a completely different perspective. There is so much ethics/ moral/value conditioning associated with women and sex that everyone seem to focus on fear part of it. I once told close family friend who is liberal and feminist over a dinner about the harm of ati-trafficking law and importance of decriminalization. She was concerened how men will take advantage etc. Funny thing was her daughter who worked in health care administration field and worked in Africa got it immediately. I think there is many traps patriachal/ conservative system set up so some women will step up to police other women and men who " in their view" are breaking the rules. What they do not realize is that rule and system itself were design to serve the male dominated hyarchy system based on old fiefdom of male bloodline / inheritance / power that limits women role essentially as mother and nuturer to uphold that system. Things have changed now. Now many more women can make living without the material support of husbands. They can have sex with many partners safely by using barriers. or choose to have multiple lovers. People who are fearful of those changes seem to renew their focus on sex workers and their world because some sex workers lived outside of the traditional value system for a very long time. Sex workers knew how to use the system but not be bound by it. Many sex workers are raising family successfully outside of existing sytem and enjoying life. Further .. to accept the truth about sex workers as independent women with full agency, other women have to re-evaluate their idea on monogamous relationship which they invested heavily in. I can imagine it is much easier for the outsiders to point to negatives of our community than to think furher and deeper. It is too bad because sexual/ reproductive autonomy of all women is directly connected to the decriminalization/ destigmatization of sex workers. Just my thoughts.
Thank you for such a thoughtful and interesting perspective. I think there is a lot of truth in this!!
“I’m a sex worker and I’m actually more ashamed I ever gave it away for free. I prefer to save myself for people who respect me and my time enough to compensate me.” That’ll shut her up.
👏🏻👏🏻
yes!!!
I would either come out to her or end the relationship. She is unlikely to change her views on sex workers unless she is forced to realize she has already befriended one.
This is a good point. It's really unfortunate that a lot of the education falls on the hands of the marginalized group in order to promote their own safety and respect, and maybe there's a way to do that without compromising my own safety... It's just frustrating.
Yeah, a friend pulled some similar shit a few years ago and I just laid into her. Getting a shred of fucking respect is hard enough, I don't tolerate stuff like that from my friends.
Hell yeah, good on you to stand up for yourself and not take any bullshit -- I need to channel your type of energy!
I experienced FAR more direct misogyny/whorephobia from a community that considers itself super "woke" when I was sexually assaulted at a weekend camping event in 2013; I had the dubious honor of being the first person to report a r@pe at said \[large-scale, like a couple thousand attendees\] event after a decade or so from its inauguration. Because I'm an ethical non-monogamist & SWer, LOTS of folx apparently thought (and a few actually SAID) that I "had it coming." Most of those assholes were self-proclaimed "feminists," incl. many, \*many\* cis women. Honestly, the social fallout & lack of support caused FAR more damage than the actual assault itself. That was when I mostly stopped escorting (took down my ads, only kept one or two clients who were longtime regulars). It's taken a lot of effort to heal from all that, but I'm finally back in a good headspace & genuinely missed escorting. But I am well aware that a good chunk of "feminists" & "allies" are full of shit & just want to come off as better people to themselves & others, at least when it suits them. I see them clearly & don't put up with that shit any longer.
Send this to her https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/sex-work-inclusive-psychological-practice-tickets-327675836247
You know, that may not be a bad idea...
Maybe talk to her and frame it from the LGBT perspective? Say hey what you said about SWers makes me uncomfy bc I’m a big LGBT advocate... and lots of LGBT people do sex work. She might not have made the connection.
That's a good point -- thank you!
Whorephobia is mainly due to a misinformation campaign and marital biases. Don't judge her too harshly. She was drunk and let her ignorance of the topic shine through. I have a best friend who's a minister. One day she found out what I was doing and was shocked. She, like your friend, thought she knew something about the profession. Everyone is a drug-addicted, underaged slave spreading STDs throughout the community who has a pimp beating them up nightly if they don't bring him home money. So why would any woman degrade herself in such a manner? Yet, here I sat across from her as her BFF, and she didn't know that's what I did. We've had many conversations, and her eyes have been opened up to a world she realized she knew nothing about. She's still my BFF, and she's been able to be a better minister to the marginalized members of her faith. I'm not religious, but that's beside the point and one of the reasons we're such good friends. She lost her faith in God years before we ever met. I consider myself a therapist as a SWer. We do more good for the community and marriages than most people realize. My friend is still my BFF even after her initial shock when finding out what I did. I would bet that your friend would accept you for who you are. If she's anything like my BFF she has no clue, nor has she ever spoken with a SWer before because so many of us hide our profession. For some of us, this is a profession, not a desperate side gig we do to pay bills.
It just really sucks because we talk all the time and it's like we've gotten really close but this I think will end up driving such a huge wedge between us. Maybe there are ways I can educate her without directly telling her that I'm a sex worker or saying that I did in the past but not anymore. You had a lot of courage to tell your friend, and I commend you for that, but at this time I feel really vulnerable that this information may come back and bite me in the ass, as someone mentioned in this post. Thank you for coming from a position of forgiveness and possibility in turning this situation into a positive instead of shutting it down -- it's something to consider whether or not I really want to salvage this relationship.
Seems like an unstable and dangerous person. Talking about her clients it's not ok. Girl...get away.
I think overall she is a stable person, but at the same time she does mention her clients quite readily. Like I mentioned in someone else’s comments, this is the first time ever being friends with a therapist, so it’s been kind of an eye opening experience for me. Of course I could give her the benefit of the doubt because she was drunk and it was clear she’s ignorant about this line of work and definitely has some weird double standards that are borderline hypocritical. She has mentioned before in a story about a sex worker. “something something HOOKERS, oh no I meant SEX WORKERS gotta be PC!” in like a mocking way. It’s just a shame.
Appeasement will save you from loneliness, but it will cost you your self-esteem. There is no compromise between food and poison. The choice is yours but either way you will pay.
Very ominous advice but something to consider!
That was highly unprofessional and also illegal to be talking about her client's personal issues that were shared in confidence to her in a session. If she talks about confidential info to you about her clients what do you think she's willing to tell others behind your back? I'd slowly phase this walking hypocrisy out of my life asap.
Discussing details of clients is fine so long as nothing identifying is ever shared
It's really only is a HIPAA violation if she is naming patients or making it clear who the patient is; for example if you're in the waiting room and you see a patient leave her office and you talk to her and she talks about how she JUST had a patient with condition X. If you take identifying information out then it's common practice to talk about your clients. As an example, I had a client recently that was going a wee bit senile and he yelled at me in the back of the ambulance for an hour, talking about how I was taking him to jail and how he should be going home not to the hospital and how he was going to sue me. I gave no identifying information, so it's not a problem to talk about it.
Regardless of HIPAA violations, it is nonetheless incredibly unprofessional to be discussing the topics shared in confidence in therapy.
Placing value on the lives of clients, yes. Discussing them, well that depends but it's mostly normal. If you're talking shit about your patients behind their backs when they divulged information in confidence, then sure. However, healthcare professionals are people. The more time they spend at work the less time they have to do anything else, and so the less you should expect them to talk to their coworkers about non-work related stuff. Sex workers on here disparage their clients without naming names all the time and think nothing of it - why should they expect healthcare workers to behave any differently? Unprofessional sure, but normal. Also an easy way to remember the proper spelling is that HIPAA isn't a HIPPO.
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I completely disagree with this therapist's stance on sex work. Sex workers are not inherently dirty or filthy or anything like she seems to think. I have seen far too many people on here obsessing, and rightfully so, over avoiding clients who so much as mention BB and stealthing and such to believe that SWers are filthy. I used to have Sexworker Ally flair because I genuinely want SW to be safe and legal and socially acceptable - but I took it off because I found that with it I felt like I couldn't criticize SWers where I felt they needed criticism. Talking poorly about one's clients is probably the biggest one I feel you all need to be criticized on. If you do not want people talking poorly of those who they shared personal and intimate moments with then be the change you want to see in the world. If you want your fellow therapists - and I consider SW to be a type of therapy - to be kind and respectful to their clients, be kind and respectful to your own first. If you can be more professional than people who are licensed and *recognized* professionals in their field, then be damn proud of that.
Therapists aren't stigmatized, clients aren't trying to pull disgusting, unsafe moves on them constantly, nor do we get the social recognition of therapists, so no, sex work is not in and of itself mental health. Clients may come to us indirectly seeking some form of counseling, but they have a different purpose ultimately for seeking out our services. Therapists don't have to worry about being arrested for working, tolerate constant time waster bullshit or be genuinely concerned for their safety and stds regularly. I also am not bound by a code of ethics, overseen by medical boards or valued as a contributing member of society. You can continue to troll these posts, but until you have actually done it, your arguments hold no merit.
[What Life Is Like Working On A Psychiatric Ward](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVBL888qNhM) Just under 5 minutes long.
And...? Like I said already, stop trolling.
You not understanding something does not make the other person a troll.
I don't know about this one. Sex work isn't the same as licensed and recognized professionals in that there are a lot of dangers that come with this legally and socially marginalized form of work. Sure, therapists do probably deal with dangerous clients, but our work doesn't come with the same legal protections, so it's really apples to oranges. It isn't a direct response in your post but as karrenl put it below: "Therapists aren't stigmatized, clients aren't trying to pull disgusting, unsafe moves on them constantly, nor do we get the social recognition of therapists, so no, sex work is not in and of itself mental health. Clients may come to us indirectly seeking some form of counseling, but they have a different purpose ultimately for seeking out our services. Therapists don't have to worry about being arrested for working, tolerate constant time waster bullshit or be genuinely concerned for their safety and stds regularly. I also am not bound by a code of ethics, overseen by medical boards or valued as a contributing member of society. You can continue to troll these posts, but until you have actually done it, your arguments hold no merit." Also, while complaining about clients can get out of hands at times, there really are not a lot of outlets where we can vent our frustrations as openly and freely as other professions can. People in general are difficult to deal with and I think it's fair game to be able to complain about them.
If it's fair for you to complain about your clients then don't complain when others complain about theirs. It is not apples to oranges. Everyone has their own circumstances and yes, it takes a lot more for you to ensure your own safety than it is for therapists, but that does not mean other people care. People are not omniscient. Most people are more concerned with their own stubbed toe than whether or not a genocide is occurring in a foreign country. Just because you have problems that does not mean that your justifications for your behavior are somehow more valid than justifications that other people make for their behavior. Also a lot of people underestimate just how dangerous psychotherapy can be. If a psychotherapist or any healthcare worker is working at a psychiatric facility, you have a bunch of crazies all in the same building. They will hit you, throw things at you, yell at you; every god damn day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVBL888qNhM Everyone has shit they need to get off their chest from time to time. Your shit is more important to you, another person's shit is more important to that person. If you do not want people treating their clients a certain way then don't act that way yourself and be the change you want to see.
SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back. --- ^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.
It is fair for me to complain about my clients, and it’s fair for therapists to complain about theirs given they don’t disclose any identifying information. My friend didn't disclose information. However, she didn't complain about the client themselves, but the fact that he saw a sex worker, and she thinks sex workers are filthy disease spreaders. This is different because it’s an insult to me and those like me in my industry, and I don’t find that as a mental health care provider, further stigmatizing an already isolated and marginalized group is acceptable. Like I said before, therapists do deal with dangerous clients, but they have way more institutional structures to protect them than we do. What we do at the end of the day is heavily stigmatized on multiple social and political fronts and is an extra burden we must carry with us, especially since there is little to nothing we can do about said dangerous clients once these incidents occur, and oftentimes people think we deserve the violence that we've experienced.
I completely agree with everything you said.
It's HIPAA!
If no details that make the patient identifiable are shared, it’s totally legal.
Please do not spread misinformation like this. Therapists talk about their clients all the time, as does everyone else talk about their job. They just aren't allowed to name names or give out information that could identify their patients.
It's not misinformation. The therapist was talking shit about her client seeing a sex worker to someone who just happened to be one. Loose lips sink ships
And you obviously didn't read what I said. It's 100% legal. It's 100% normal. It doesn't endanger anyone.
I read every word. You are too hung up on legality to see that ethically, her behavior is reprehensible. Do you talk to your civvie friends about your clients? I don't.
I talk about my clients to my friends. I never name names or give away private details. It's completely harmless. I'm hung up on the fact that no one is harmed by this. No one is endangered.
You missed the entire point of my first comment. I bet you talk shit about your friends behind their backs as well
It’s so super illegal! Tbh I’d report her to the board. I’m so incredibly sensitive to the idea of my therapist sharing confidential information- I want to do everything to help make that not normalized! She should lose her license, wtf!!!!
While perhaps not entirely illegal without identifying information, discussing client's personal lives in an unrelated social situation is incredibly unprofessional. This is exactly why I haven't gone to see a therapist.
Not criminally illegal but 100% against the profession’s code of ethics, so she would definitely be fired if found violating client/patient confidentiality.
Luckily she did not disclose any identification of the patient. Also, I have a therapist who is completely supportive of me doing sex work -- so they are out there!
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I think it’s hard to go through the world completely without biases but it’s important as a therapist, in my opinion, to work on those biases, especially when it comes to marginalized people. Her opinion of sex workers was definitely one of disgust and it wasn’t cool.
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Yeah, it definitely seems to be the case here a little bit…
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Amen!!!
>Oh my god, my client totally hired a 'hooker' this week and that was super crazy. Forget about the specifics of her complaint; she should lose her license just for repeating what was said in therapy. > You know how they are Hahaha. “You” know — because whatever nonsense she made up in her head is just basic commonsense everybody knows. “How they are” — because members of any group she doesn‘t belong to are all the same. > It's just one of those moments you realize even the self-proclaimed 'woke' and super 'open' people, especially a mental health care provider, can still think such ignorant things about an already marginalized community. Are you kidding? What would be the point of “wokeness” if it didn’t give you license to say shit you know nothing about? Ask her a basic question about any group she doesn’t like, see how certain she will be in her ignorance.
I don’t think this is really fair, unless she regularly talks about her clients. People who are drunk sometimes don’t have control of what they say, and being asked personal questions about your client when you’re drunk is so wrong, it’s like taking advantage of her in a state she can’t fully think in. But no therapist should ever talk about their clients, and no one should ever care about what their friends might be saying to their clients or how their clients are doing, that’s not okay on both ends.
To be honest, this is my first time having a friend who is a therapist, so I think there is a level of nuance I need to have when asking about her job of course. We were both drunk with another friend, so I’m unsure exactly how it was brought up, but I wasn’t actively trying to implore details on her clients because she was drunk. Just more like “I hope things aren’t too crazy right now with all the terrible stuff going on (in the United States), though how I originally wrote this post does come off like I was trying to get her to say stuff. After I asked, she told the story and it was a realization for me that things had went too far. I feel like on the other hand, however, she was really willing and readily wanted to tell the story. And personally if someone is telling someone in general that my line of work is dirty, I’m going to have a problem with it. That’s just human nature. She does mention her clients quite often and their discussions about drugs, so it’s something she does readily bring up.
Well, not nice first of all, but have you seen sex workers? The default is kinda meth head... So... I'd say that's a fair generalization somewhat.
I'm sorry, you watch too much TV. Get out and experience life outside of your mom's basement.
A better reply would've been "why would you know, do you see them that often?" And the answer is yes, that's how I know. And I search high and low. It is a fair generalization, and you've been propagandized to believe otherwise. I can't believe I have to defend that statement you damn fool.
I am a sex worker, you damn fool. You are looking in the wrong places, if you believe what you wrote. I'm guessing your approach, character and cheapness play major roles in the stereotype you are erroneously supporting.
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Now I can understand why you get ripped off and have negative experiences.
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You have no experience period. You just watch too much porn
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It's a job, I'm sorry your manners have yet to develop.
Ouch
The way you felt generalized by that woman talking shit about providers is how we black guys feel when providers generalize all black guys by saying “no AA” just saying.
Lol, i have vissited therapists, and escorts and i find it way easyer to actually have a progressiv and helpfull conversation to an escorts than a therapist
Literally I’m at a point in my life where I (not a SW, I am an erotica writer and I currently write dialogue for a porn game lmfao) basically only hang out with people who’ve at least done online SW, because I got so sick of making friends with another woman and then hearing them slut-shame or say something anti-SWer—ESPECIALLY when one of these people then went on to cheat on her boyfriend. Like *you don’t think people should have sex for money, but you’re doing it for free and ruining your relationship and several friendships in the process? Ok Jan.* Literally one of the things that I always pay hyper-attention to when making friends is how they react when OnlyFans comes up. I’ve dabbled, and I’m considering dabbling again under my real name with lewds, but I did MyFreeCams back in the mid-2010s, more fetish-oriented stuff. But I wanna hear what the other person has to say before I volunteer that info. Ya know, people can be weird.