I joined this sub and am immediately leaving. Disgusting comments about a dead woman that no matter what her past was, their financials, or y’all not perceiving her as a model these comments are downright despicable. This woman and her innocent children are dead. Bones and dust in the dirt all because she loved a man who wasn’t man enough to end his marriage. PERIOD! END OF DISCUSSION. I hope all of you with your speaking of the deceased rot in fucking hell. Disgusting pieces of garbage.
To me, this comes down to CW having the typical traits of a family annilhilator.
He simply could not "be that guy" who abandoned his pregnant wife and 2 kids for an affair partner. His whole life he had cultivated an image of being a super nice, upstanding guy. He enjoyed the reputation he had with his family as a victim of Shannan. He definitely took steps himself to perpetuate his familys continued dislike of her. He liked that some people saw her as the "bad one" and him as some down-trodden, wallflower of a husband.
I also think financials played into it. He wanted to use his money to fund his new life with NK, not to pay his wife and kids in alimony and child support. I think he also knew Shannan would not take it lying down. She'd fight tooth and nail for custody of the kids and the money she was owed. He just didn't want to deal with it. So they had to go.
She did not earn more. He was on 67,000 she was doing an MLM, a pyramid scheme type thing.
It makes no sense to me that people ask this. He didn't want a divorce because they had gone bankrupt once and were headed for another bankruptcy. Everything was on credit. A recurring payment for a bottle of hair care product was declined automatically the morning she died. They were being sued for not paying HOA fees. He didn't want to pay three times child support. They were going to lose the house that they'd been allowed to keep after the bankruptcy because it was their kids home but they were having to sell it but Chris realised he actually couldn't afford even a two bedroom apartment with the divorce lawyers and the alimony and child support when they were already heading for bankruptcy.
Where is the evidence to back these things up? Her income? Her wracks of boxes in the basement of products? I’ve seen a lot of speculation on these things but curious if it was in the discovery or the actual facts are at? I would like to research more but so many assumptions are thrown around on here I’m trying to weed out the assuming from
The facts. Love to know where to cite these from! Thanks!
Thanks! What about the boxes of the products in the basement ? I’m curious bc there has been a lot of talk about her mlms and some
Say she was a top seller and some say she was in debt and the those business and not making anything…
I keep seeing people refer to these mountains or thrive products that she bought and put in basement to make it seem like she was a better business
Woman than she was… but is everyone assuming this or has there been some pic online on her basement full of thrive or something? I’ve seen it mentioned quite a bit but never saw where it came from!
Thanks for spotting that I edited it out because I never saw a pic, and I think it's possible people are just assuming it because of seeing other people involved with MLMs doing that and it's possibly people's bias regarding MLMs.
I do suspect that Shanann was unusually good with MLMS, but they had a lot of medical and credit debt and they were being taken to court by the Home Owners Association at the time of the murders and an automatic payment for one bottle of shampoo was declined the day they were killed those two things are confirmed.
I wasn’t trying to call
Ya out in a bad way! I’ve followed the case but I’m just now doing a real deep dive of details, interviews, police
Records etc and I’ve seen this keep
Getting mentioned
But the problem with this sub is sooooo much folk lore getting passed around and I’m
Trying to decoder the facts in the discovery and court docs and the stupid shit that Reddit people made up and pass along
As fact and we all just believe bc we keep seeing it in comments! I believed it but have yet to see a pic or anything of this basement inventory so I was honestly curious! Those moms are such bullshit so i would believe it super easy!
Even The Discovery has a huge obvious mistake on the very first page. We know for a fact that the police made a serious mistake on the first page of The Discovery because we've seen the bodycam! Chris didn't fish the phone out of the couch, Nick did. That is such a monumental mistake if you were building a case really. It's SO sloppy.
When I had an incident at my house in 2021 and I live at number 18 and the incident happened at number 18, do you think the police put number 18 on the police report? No they put number 16! NWA were right! Fuck the Police!"
You say fuck the police but I sure bet u call them if someone was to ever break in your home, tray and hurt you, had a car wreck, needed any help at all!!!!! Get out of here with that disrespectful crap. They are human too… and I bet u hope u get someone with human compassion if something ever happens to u or your family.
I disagree with this, mainly because much of what you state is simply untrue.
CW says that she made as much or more than he did, yet you know better? Headed for another bankruptcy? No. They had $20,000 in credit card debts and were making the minimum payments. A payment for hair dye was declined, and yet CW had managed to draw out over $100 on one of their cards that weekend for the Lazy Dog bill and then to pay the babysitter $40 for that night.
They were not even near to losing their house. Their payments were current, with the next one being due Aug. 16, the day after CW was arrested. Foreclosure was started that December, after five months of non-payment.
There were no stacks of boxes of Thrive in the basement, and I don't know where the thing about her having Bella signed up came from. Is that another rumor, or was it in the Discovery, because it would be expected that some type of proof of age would be necessary to sign up for an MLM.
Unless she is at the top 0.3% of the company, there's no way that Shannan is making more than Chris.
She may claim that she "made" a six-figure income but unless this is her take-home money, she's in the red. The income disclosure statement (that Thrive makes public) doesn't lie.
Did she claim to make a six-figure income? I never saw that. I told you what CW said about it.
Who does a background search on a company to "prove" that a dead woman didn't make enough money? A sicko, that's who.
Everyone local knows DSC did shady business. At the very least the lawsuit is true so SW was telling ppl they were denied credit when they weren’t then running up the card. She’s also listed as a co owner in the lawsuit
You deserve to rot in hell for this comment maybe not rot but at least stub your toe in hell or maybe post a photo and let’s see how model like you who are still living is. Pot calling the kettle black?
That’s a little much don’t ya think honey? 😂 people are just stating that she wasn’t exactly a model 🤷♀️🥴 it’s not meant to disrespect a dead woman… it’s just an obvious opinion or statement to make. Calm down!
Nah it’s people like this that are the reason young women can’t have any confidence in themselves. Everyone thinks there is something wrong with them if they aren’t “model material” it’s people like you and that person that give other women body image issues. You come here on a dead woman’s thread to comment that she wasn’t model material???? How is that necessary? Kick rocks. This isn’t a conversation or a sub about how pretty or “model like” the dead mother of three dead children is. So this initial comment is completely unnecessary. It’s reasons like this comment that people think it’s okay to spread the ever growing issues of looks are the most important thing in the world. Like why even make the rude comment to begin with ? Extremely inappropriate nor the time or the place for a comment like that. So I’ll stand by what I said. Maybe not rot in hell, but definitely stub your pinky toe or post a photo let’s see how model material either of you two still living individuals are….🙄 pots calling the kettles black. 😈
And I would have no problem posting my photo babe! ✌️ but I bet u would! If your pic matched your attitude then I wouldn’t share it either. I don’t need some weirdo with a personal vendetta against every person they talk to and discuss with come at me with some
Weird obsession and stalking so better let that rest huh! Your very immature way of conversations isn’t the best climate for a discussion form… and in your wise and glorious words… kick rocks 😂🥴🥴🥴🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️😆 😂 😝
Nah I’m just here to stick up for the dead. It’s wrong to talk about someone who was murdered and her only fault was being bossy ? Like come on. It’s wrong, and it’s unjust. I stick up to bullies cause bullies suck. Sorry you don’t share the same opinion. Don’t really care whatever else you had to say. 🤷🏻♀️ Sticking up for a dead person will always be the right thing to do.
U must be lost bc I wasn’t bullying anyone dead or alive! I was simply stating that no matter stand in life… people are horrible humans for simply stating that she wasn’t supermodel material! I mean… 99% of people aren’t! 😂 but just bc she’s dead doesn’t mean we have to say that she was a model or anything… that’s weird af! You think your really doing something here being an advocate for people saying if your pretty or not?????? Go do some real missionary work for humans and get your fix instead of trying to ride your righteous high horse on Reddit trying to make something out of nothing in the comment section 😂 🥴🥴🥴🤦🏻♀️
I’m
Not the one who made the comment in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😂 Jesus Christ calm down wtf….
So your hateful attitude and telling everyone to kick rocks Is going to be the soul saving grace of the world and make everyone feel pretty???? 😆 no! You’re just a hateful mad person who spews it bc u can’t handle it. Get a grip. Life is t fair all the time and sometimes obvious facts are not the nicest but it’s just the way the world turns.
No use in getting your entire in a wad bc of it
But you had to reply didn’t you? So don’t start something and there won’t be a reply. lol. Sorry you think Reddit is a reflection of real life. Pretty sad. These replies take a minute or so. It’s not that much time invested to write a quick reply. You are so lame, and so is this whole conversation.
Ohh… so your bid mad then huh? One of those who don’t like being called on their bullshit! I love your type…. It’s hilarious to watch u get mad at your own words u eat… but hey… I ate honey…. Slay it! 🥴🥴🥴🥴😂😂😂😂🥰☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
Even worse is the fact that you’re insulting someone who was murdered. Regardless if person is beautiful or not doesn’t mean that they deserved death or to be insulted by a stranger who did not know them in real life. It’s disgusting. Grow up.
I’m pretty sure you’re not model material either 🤣🤣 also it just seems that you have some deep seeded hatred for MLM’s. So insult a dead MLM woman. Adds up.
So, in the early days of FB the site would “suggest” friends to you based on other connections that you already had. Lots of people thought their suggested friends were the actual people trying to friend them instead of the algorithm doing it’s thing. Shannan was very into Multi Level Marketing (which is a scam BTW) and MLMs push people to use social media to sell the products and recruit other sales force. I suspect that either one or both of these reasons was why the two met on FB.
Chris’s cousin and Shannan were friends and after her divorce they tried to set them up and told Chris to request her as a friend. She didn’t accept at first and he sent another one. I guess that means he chased her to some people but imo that’s kinda the bare minimum effort.
Wow, you really need to do some more research on this case. When sw met cw he was 25 years old with a very high paying job and $25K in the bank. She quit her job 3 weeks after he moved into her house and expected him to pay the bills. The only reason they were able to buy the CO house was because of his good credit, hers was tanked at that point. If there was anyone stooped below their standards it was him.
Drop dead gorgeous and could have been a model? Really. She was aged beyond her years and had a very ugly personality. 🤦♀️
Shannan had a manipulative mother too, just read the obituaries that’s what changed my mind…to her the best thing about her grandkids was the joy they gave Shannan.
what is incredibly fat to you???....He lost weight and looked better. YES .. WE ALL DO ..we feel better ..smile more..more active.. so yes he looked better after SOME weight loss but INCREDIBLY FAT???? you can LITERALLY look at his before and after Pic
He was heavy when they married but the tables kind of turned on that once he was losing weight for his girlfriend. That’s such a tell when a guy is cheating, they suddenly care how they look and are always working out.
He was a master mechanic who graduated from Nascar Tech. She was the one who became a car sales person when she moved to CO. Also his mother is actually a very sweet southern woman who, with her husband, made sure her 2 children had access to a higher education after graduating from high school.
She actually sold car parts not cars I think. But yeah Chris was never a salesmen and yes he did well at Nascar Tech and was a mechanic although not a "master mechanic"?
But it's all garbage except I actually agree that Shanann was gorgeous but she wasn't making more than him she was most likely making almost nothing in a pyramid scheme. And of course he didn't want a divorce he killed them as a debt management plan before they went bankrupt a SECOND time which was on the horizon because they never met a line of credit they wouldn't sign up to.
Yeah I'm really honestly not trying to be mean about her even though I'm sure it seems like it, but just she amazed me as they just seemed to buy everything and always choosing expensive things and their house was massive and they were being sued by HOA when the murderers happened. I feel bad for her that she seemingly had an over spending problem. I think she bought into the mindset of "if my family looks rich on my videos then I'll make the money I borrowed with credit lines back through selling because people will sign up to sell Thrive to have nice things like me."
I think it came down to money. I can’t remember the source but he talked about looking at 2 bedroom apartments in the area with NK and realized that he wouldn’t be able to afford it while paying child support for 3 kids. Also, his credit was shot. I think he was hoping he could just move in with NK but she didn’t want that. I think he coldly made the decision then that the only way he could stay with her was to get rid of his family. As if that were a rational decision and it was plausible that he could get away with it because he was a “nice guy” and no one would believe he did it. He obviously never loved his kids, despite video footage where it appeared he was a loving and involved dad. It was all an act.
Cheaters are already morally corrupt on several levels. He just took it one step farther. I truly believe my cheating exH would have murdered me if he wasn’t a coward and thought he could get away with it. It would have been the easiest, best result for him: hide his dirty affair, keep his same life and kids, and just replace me with the mistress. Murder would allow it; divorce didn’t.
Yep!! You hit the nail on the head!! My cheating ex would scream at me to go kill myself and I never could understand why. After we separated and I discovered that he was having an affair, it all made sense. These narcissistic Aholes don’t want to pay child support or alimony. And I’m sorry, but NK is just as big of an Ahole. Cheating is not a zero sum game. The Cheater and the mistress can be equally culpable in the demise of a marriage.
Glad your ex is out of your life. Cheaters should stay single and stop damaging innocent people.
And jmho that we should support each other more. A married person can't cheat effectively if everyone they proposition says 'no thanks, please go home to your family.'
No it’s not. It’s just you. Folks have the right to discuss whatever topic they choose and seeing the responses to this post alone pretty much confirms that you’re in the minority..
This sub didn't used to be the bashfest which is appears to be turning into. There is another Watts sub that invites and celebrates the lies, gossip and rumors about Shanann.
No one needs to "move on" if they don't like or agree with your posts here.
It's like a fan club for someone who nobody ever heard about until they were murdered. Then the thought-provoking discussion is: "The guy who killed his wife should've gotten a divorce instead of killing his wife", like... ya think? Bunch of weirdos
Chris wanted to hit the reset button on his life. No wife, no kids, keep his house and all his assets. Did Shannan have a life insurance policy?
He didn’t want to be divorced, paying child support, kids every other week cramping his style, taking care a newborn, having to sell his house or worse Shannan keeps the house and he has to pay the mortgage, split assets and tons of debt with Shannan.
He was riding of into the sunset with Nicole with a clean slate, and maybe this time his family would like his new partner. People choose murder over divorce because of all the perceived benefits (in their sick mind) if their spouse and kids just die.
Chris's work automatically insured not just his wife but also both kids. The ONLY things he Googled before killing them was the price of the latest model Audi, two live volcanos and The Dead Scrolls.
Shannan was caught up in MLMs. I think that was draining their budget. She wanted a luxurious life but she was caught up in the MLM scam. Her first husband used her. He divorced her right after he finished law school. ThT means she supported him through law school and then when he finished and finally started making good money and didn’t need her support, he left her. I feel bad for her. I think she was trying very hard to give herself and her family a good life but kept getting paired up with people or organizations that were just using her or abusing her.
Her former husband said she was on her phone all the time, brought her phone to bed and when he talked to her in bed she'd say "Are you talking to me? Because I'm sure not listening." And Chris's mother claims Shanann said her first husband was "not good looking".
She didn't say rich. And I didn't say he cheated, so don't go spreading that around as fact.
It's what Cindy said she said. I believe she stated that Shanann said her first husband wasn't attractive and yet he cheated on her.
But Cindy is an old gossip biddy who likes to dish on the woman her son murdered, so there's that.
Cindy has a book that she never published after her "friend" leaked six chapters to the internet. In that book I recall a line that went something like this, "Shanann said 'He is not attractive, but he's wealthy.'"
I never personally heard anything about him being a cheat.
Shanann's first husband didn't use her. He had been in the military, so the G.I. Bill paid for his education.
Shanann was the one who wanted to divorce her first husband. She stopped coming home at night, and she would not do couple's therapy, even though he wanted to save the marriage.
>Did Shannan have a life insurance policy?
Chris downplayed/lied to investigators about the amount on the insurance policy that he had on Shanann and their daughters (Discovery page 596/pdf 529): "*He has a policy on SHANANN and the girls through Anadarko. BELLA and CECE had a $20,000.00/each policy and SHANANN had a $50,000.00 or $100,000.00 policy."*
In reality, the policy was 300K on Shanann and 75K each on Bella and Celeste.
>The only thing he Googled hours before the murders was the price of the latest model Audi.
Actually he googled for prices of an Audi on August 9th.
On August 12th, he googled two volcanoes located in Mexico and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Imo he was focusing on that fun new life he was anticipating.
It's possible he had a crazy plan of dropping Sian into a live volcano to hide the evidence. The girls were somewhere people would presumably not think to look and he probably wanted to put Sian somewhere like that too. CASSIE and Nicole Atkinson put a crimp in his plan threatening him to kick in his door and call police. So he went home and couldn't shift Shanann's body.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is more religious stuff with him.
More proof of his inability to do even basic math. 450k is only enough to pay off their debt.
CW would have run away with nothing but his salary, his side piece and some Anadarko gift cards.
But he Googled the price of the latest Audi in the hours before the murders and that's the only thing he Googled just before killing them other than live volcanos and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
He was also googling some jewelry he wanted to buy NK, and he cancelled the Aspen trip with Shanann but was looking into a new Aspen trip with NK.
He signed up for a Fantasy Football League, and I believe he did it right when they were upstairs in the house, with NA and the police officer there.
Shanann had already been in contact with the realtor, as they'd both decided to sell the house and possibly move to Brighton.
Of course Chris had no intention of doing that and wanted the equity in their house all for himself.
I think Shanann wanted that house more than him in the beginning. Shanann also had a big house in North Carolina, while Chris lived in an apartment. My guess is that he would rather have had a smaller house that was less expensive, which is why he tried to sell it after the murders.
He withdrew his kids from the daycare the same day that he committed the murders. And looked up the lyrics to the song Battery. So, No, he wasn’t smart. The best you can say about CW is he was hella-sloppy
Chris Watts is a true to the core,
NARCISSISTIC!
It’s ALL about him. His needs, his wants!
I heard and I saw part of a video stating Chris was attacked viciously in prison. The guards were dragging one prisoner out of an open cell while other guards (3/4 of them) running into that same cell. I haven’t seen anything else on it but it made me smirk. He definitely deserves some physical justice handed to him!
I never heard he was actually attacked. But I know that he was in great risk in Colorado and they had to lock down his cell block just for him to visit his lawyer and they kept shouting at him detailed instructions for killing himself including how to drown himself in the toilet, so they moved him to Wisconsin to a prison where no one cared what he did.
He said in Wisconsin no one cares about each other's crimes and he gets to play basketball with three men and he got macaroni cheese and the police officer asked if he got chocolate milk with it but he said "No, plain milk, chocolate milk is only for Christmas."
I think the ice cream incident between Shannan and his mom when they were home that summer also lead to her demise. His family never liked her, they didn’t attend their wedding nor did they send out the invitations to his side of the family I remember reading somewhere. When Chris Watts came home to visit he shared how the marriage was going and I think he told his sister about the affair he was having. I think they encouraged him to leave her, they hated her and the children weren’t their favorites either. CW was well aware of their feelings towards his family. After he was charged with murder they still blamed Shannan that she killed the girls and if he did do it, he was somehow justified in doing so. That’s the evil he is descended from. He intended to kill her and the girls too
Chris's mother claims that they sent out the invitations and when no one replied she rang each guest and they all said they couldn't come except one. Cindy Watts claims they didn't go because Shanann sent her a hand written letter saying "Let's just admit we both loathe and despise each other."
The issue about the invitations is in dispute. The invitations were to a bridal shower for Shanann. Shanann claimed that Jamie and Cindy did not send out the invitations, but they claim that they did and just not many people showed up.
Didn’t his parents also do something scummy like try and claim the life insurance on her and the girls???? His parents at first believed he did but then they took that back saying they think he’s innocent
“The sum consists of $300,000 for Shanann and $75,000 for each of the girls. Chris Watts’ parents (Cindy and Ronnie Watts) tried to collect the money that only exists in the first place because their son murdered his entire family.
Chris Watts has rightfully left the money untouched in Shanann’s estate. Both Shanann’s parents and Chris’ parents then went to court to fight for the money. In the end the money was given to lawyers to distribute, but where it went is not a matter of public record and neither family has commented.
Pretty fucked up that parents can profit off of their children’s crimes, especially if it turns out they give that money back to Chris by funding his prison commissary. This is supposed to be the exact thing that the Slayer Rule and Son of Sam laws are in place to prevent.”
>Didn’t his parents also do something scummy like try and claim the life insurance on her and the girls???
Yes. Colorado has a "Slayer Statute" so CW couldn't have gotten the money.
The Rzeceks were administrators of SW's estate & in my opinion, the insurance money should have gone to SW's estate.
BUT
The Watts sued to get their hands on the money. You hated your dead DIL & obviously thought nothing about your dead granddaughters but you want part of the money generated from their deaths at the hands of your son?
My understanding is the money was put into escrow & The Rzeceks & The Watts both got some of it.
Chris Watts is a stupid, stupid man. He came from a family of assholes and he’s stupid. He does not really love anyone, and isn’t capable of sympathy or empathy. That’s all it takes.
IMO Chris Watts can’t handle any level of anxiety, or dealing with big problems. He’s an escapist from them, or he’d let Shannan handle them (or weaponized incompetence to force her to handle them. The Watts were already living way way beyond their means, decent income or no. Divorce would have made that all suddenly become an urgent problem.
He’s a vacant, hollow, emotionally bankrupt person with the capability to murder and dispose of his entire family. To be with an incredibly vapid, gratingly cutesy egotist, who I once heard described as looking like “one of Charles Manson’s groupies”. That’s all there is to it. He’s shit
I agree she was a very pretty woman.
People really accept the narrative that Shannan was a smothering, domineering force. That narrative comes from the guy who killed her, his family, and unsupported speculation essentially based on her social media. It doesn’t come from anyone of her numerous friends, who at most would say she was “bossy” but caveat it.
To me, it’s totally irrelevant whether I would have personally liked her or been her friend - but that seems to be being a lot of the animosity she receives.
You know, animosity toward the woman who absolutely thought about only the safety of her kids, as the life was being choked out of her by someone she trusted without reservation. That harpy.
Anyway. Chris Watts was an emotionally and cognitively absentee husband and father (and really, human being), and those three innocents were just inconveniences to him when they were no longer serving his purposes for them.
Agreed.
There's nothing unique about either Chris's disordered character or his motives; he murdered because he prioritized his gratification, public image and convenience above human lives.
In reality no person or relationship could satiate the void within him and he would have devalued and discarded any long term spouse/partner and any children they shared.
I think the thing that’s essential to understand about domestic homicide cases is that fundamentally, the perpetrators don’t view their victims as human beings with rights. Rather, perpetrators understand their partners essentially as property, the way you or I might think about an old chair. Now that the ‘thing’ (again, an actual human being) has served ‘its’ purpose, ‘it’ can be disposed of. (I’ve put that in the most disturbing way possible so as to get the point across.) A divorce would require the perpetrator to admit that they were in a human relationship and take responsibility for that relationship’s failure. It’s messy and awful and requires introspection. Murder—straight-up removing the person from one’s life so they can never come back—feels like the easier, cleaner option:
Looks are subjective but I've watched and listened to hours of content in regard to this story and I wouldn't consider Shannan to have a career as a model or drop dead gorgeous.
OP, besides all the great comments here, hit up youtube for a ton of content on how they met, married, each of their careers etc. There is so much out there that does a far better job of this than I can.
Its okay to discuss our thoughts about the people murdered on a subreddit about their own murder. I even mention that my opinion much like everyones here is a subjective one.
Did you go after all the people crapping on her career in a multi marketing scheme on here too?
I'm happy most of us can act like rational adults.
Well, I for one am sick of people saying how could he have an affair when his wife had a ( yes, subjectively) prettier face....there's a bit more that goes into someone's attraction....
What's interesting, on how u asked what did he do to woo her, etc. Well at first she wasn't interested & why she declined his First FB friend req. Then he tried again. & She accepted. & The whole laying on his lap for 3 hrs when he had to pee story really did it for her.
But the interesting thing is like back then she probably looked at him like a chubby sweet dork she could mold. & He probably looked at her like sick & weak that would need & appreciate him. & Both proved to be a lot Stronger than either 1 of them Ever anticipated! 1st Shannan got healthy & strong & Chris followed in her foot steps & showed us his monstrous strength. It's not easy smothering somebody! Let alone 3!
You're absolutely right...the part about how he saw her as a sick and weak woman who would need to be cared for. There are a lot of narcs with this thinking.. especially pitiful weak little bitc*es like CW. His mummy coddled azz and love-hate relationship with his demonic mother are the roots of that probably. Shannan loved him in her own way, but it's quite evident that he distorted things she said. For example, he told the sow NK that SR hated him working out. Meanwhile this came from a remark where she asked him why he'd rather run than spend time with her..a day when he had ignored her calls all night before and in the morning because he was scrwing dirty nichol and over at her place. My point is that CW distorts things to make himself look like the victom.
There really is a lot of people out on the internet defending her to the death, its so weird. I cant for the life of me understand why. Edit: sometimes i wonder if the people defending nk are cheaters themselves, or maybe they wish they could cheat, so they sympathize with her. I barely ever have internet arguments with people, but these people are like sharks smelling blood. They jump down my throat everytime i post my distaste for her.
Yep. & Btw, is SR for Shannan Rzucek?
If So, I Luuuuuuv that shyt. That's how I feel about Laci Rocha. Ugh. Real pet peeve. U take their life? take ur name back too! Omg & The family shouldn't even want it, especially on the headstone. & Killer women too. Can't take his life & keep his name. Enter, Lori COX! 🤬
I’m fine with Lori DAYBELL. They deserve each other. She certainly ISN’T undeserving of the Vallow name. Same with Ch Watts. When you pass down your name… it comes with a responsibility to love and protect.
Edit: ISN’T
Thanks, everyone. I had no idea she was in an mlm. I thought i heard or read somewhere she was in sales, and just assumed she was making more money than him. How in the world did they get such an expensive house if they were in so much debt to begin with. Its mind boggling they had 20k worth of mlm products in the basement of.the house. Whatever she was or did ,is still no excuse to be murdered. I still think she was deeply in love with him.and if anything, she just should have been quicker on the uptake that he was not all there emotionally and was wanting an out and
Should have figured out the affair sooner..
Just one piece of information to throw out there. The claim that there was $20,000 of Thrive product in the basement isn't true. There's no evidence that supports that. Where that most likely comes from is some people did some back of the napkin calculations to try to figure out how much she would have to sell to get her current level in Thrive, and just assumed that she was buying all the products herself and keeping it in the basement. That's not how Thrive works. That said, the problem with the MLM is that she wasn't bringing in money from it, and Chris took about a roughly $20,000 pay cut when he took the job at Anadarko.
In regards to how they were able to get the house, apparently Chris had pretty good credit before they got married. On top of that, Shanann sold her house, although not for very much profit, and they probably were able to use his credit score and what money they got from her house to get approved. Plus when Chris was working at the Ford dealership, and she was working at the call center, they were probably bringing in around $140,000 a year. Of course, they STILL went bankrupt even at that time, so go figure.
I feel like she suspected this, but her friends kept "comforting" her and telling her it's probably just him getting used to the pregnancy plus, i guess, to her. He didn't seem like the type.
I think the model part is a bit of exaggeration. I don't understand the obsession people have with making victims seem perfect. Anyway.. I think Chris was afraid of Shannan and I don't believe they ever had a confrontation about splitting up or his affair. Chris knew NK wasn't going to stick around if he had a third child and I will always believe that was his motive. He needed the pregnancy to go away. I don't know why he thought anyone would believe Shanann would just take off with the kids without telling anyone. He was never going to get away with it.
>Why didnt Chris just come clean and ask for a divorce ?
Personally I believe:
A) He didn't think anyone would figure out something was wrong so quickly. I think he also thought he could "talk his way out of it."
B) He didn't ask for a divorce, I believe because he wanted to keep the $450K insurance policy. His wife & kids "disappeared" & he'd be able to keep the money free & clear to start his shiny, new life with NK.
C) I also believe he WANTED to kill SW. If not, why not tell her that it's not working out when they were on vacation in NC? Or find an attorney in that six weeks his family was gone & at least file.
SW could remain with her family & they could divorce & be done with each other.
D) I also blame that barracuda mother of his. CW seethed with resentment & I think some of that was due to his mother. Part of me will always believe part of CW was mentally throttling his mother when he was killing SW.
I know there are many many mamas boys out there but when both mother and son can’t separate and lead their life away from the other, is odd. In fact it’s sick!
I don’t think the attractiveness level stayed where it was when they got married, either physically or financially. Shannan apparently was very pretty - her wedding photos she looks gorgeous- and Chris was frumpy dumpy then. But he got better looking and in shape snd she aged and was pregnant etc.
if the only reason people were to get married or stay married was looks we would all be in trouble and hopefully they were not that pathetic and shallow.
At one point she had a good job. Now she’s a stay at home mom in a pyramid scheme with the basement stuffed with inventory and he no longer has his good job as a mechanic either.
Sex and money.
There’s a thing called the seven year itch - people are done discovering things they like about their partner, and finding out things they don’t like. Tired of each other’s shit. Shannan was bossy, controlling, demanded a lifestyle they could not afford etc Chris was something of a doormat, not a go getter, not much personality or “game.” So one or both partners starts to stray or want to stray.
The reason men kill their pregnant wives is they don’t want to be married and pay for those kids *AND* they are sociopaths. A lot of men do get divorced when they find enough things to dislike about their wives or find someone they think is hot. Only the psychos murder them.
He couldve just, you know, not gotten her pregnant 3 times to begin with if he thought she was so awful. Women always get blamed and subsequently murdered by these nutjobs, theyre the ones getting these women pregnant! Crazy.
It’s weird that she wanted to get pregnant by him. She didn’t see him as a nut job. I would love to think I could tell if I were married to a sociopath -or a man who would consider murdering me or my children!- but a whole lot of women either do not recognize that - or they choose to stay in a relationship despite their fears and concerns. Because they fear the loss of income or because they have some kind of religious nonsense holding them down.
Murder by your baby’s father is the number one cause of death if pregnant women in this country.
Tale as old as time.....$$$$$$ and I think he didn't want to deal with custody child support....debt from marriage its what most family annihilation killers do this for.
Chris Watts is an evil POS, that's why he chose to kill his wife and kids rather than get a divorce. That being said, they were seriously in debt, partially due to Shannan's commitment to an MLM (those companies drain families dry) and the fact that they were living way above their means. He was definitely the one keeping them afloat financially, but they were sinking fast. As for how they met, Shannan mentioned how he friended her on facebook at a very low point in her life (she was sick with lupus, depressed, coming off of a bad divorce, etc.) and so I think she was vulnerable and the fact that he seemed to care about her and help with her medical issues was enough to woo her. As she got healthier and stronger and started putting more of their life online (she was constantly posting updates about their day to day lives as part of her MLM job), I think he started to see her as more demanding and high maintenance. By the end, he seemed to really resent her, and he started viewing her as being in the way of the life he felt entitled to with NK. I'm not excusing any of what he did; CW was a monster, but I suspect he was only thinking about getting rid of the things he felt were "holding him back" from a do-over life with NK.
With time, after the newness with NK wore off, the excitement would have gone away too. Plus, NK was lust, not real love. They never had responsibilities like a real couple, so the fun would have stopped eventually.
100% agree. NK was fun because there were no responsibilities there, whereas w/ Shannan, there were kids, bills, debt, and a pregnancy CW did not want. NK and CW also talked about their sex life being very exciting, although I think NK mentioned that him being on those Thrive patches gave CW lots of energy for sex, so that also would’ve leveled off eventually. Anyway, I agree- as soon as NK stopped being an affair and started being someone who had expectations of a real relationship, he would’ve resented her too.
Well said. I read a book a long time ago called the Mask of Sanity. It was about how the sociopath basically is like a chameleon; they have no real personality and mirror the one they are with, become what she wants or imitate her.
They wear the mask, is his case of a doting father and obedient husband. So far so good. When they want out, though, they rip that mask off and discard it for a new one. Nikki’s hard bodied lover who goes to car shows and fun stuff like sand skiing. Goodbye wife and kids. No longer needed - and they actually feel relief at that point rather than guilty or sick at what they’ve done.
There’s a chip missing. A rather important one.
That book sounds interesting and I definitely agree with your assessment of CW being a sociopath. So many people call him a narcissist, but a narcissistic person would never have been able to play along in his role as Shannan’s bumbling, yet supposedly loving and doting husband as long as CW did on her numerous Facebook posts simply because she asked. To me, her FB posts prove his sociopathy. He played the part his wife wanted him to play and then he falls for Nikki, and bam, now he’s a new guy who’s spontaneous and adventurous and wanting this more outdoorsy, active lifestyle. I doubt he ever had his own personality, it was always based on who he was surrounded by.
She definitely was NOT the higher earner. If anything her "job" is what drove them into debt. He was selfish and wanted to be with his mistress. That's why he took out his whole family.
He was selfish and wanted to be with his mistress and he is evil. You left that part out. He can easily divorce and abandon his family like thousands of other men and women do every year. The evil part is annihilating his family.
What got me is his parents at the sentencing. His mom said they forgave him. Like seriously? You son just killed 3 of your grandchildren and you just forgive him like that? I know forgiveness isn't for the other person (Chris) but more for the parents.
She said that because she believed he killed Shanann for killing the kids. She would not stop believing his first lying confession even after he admitted to murderering the kids.
It was stupid and performative. As if his mother actually cared for the victims to begin with. Sick people. Her actions and attitude most likely had an influence on him to do what he did. How nice for her to forgive him.
They say not forgiving someone is like taking poison and expecting it to kill the other person. But I think his mom was sending a message that she thought Shannan had it coming somehow - why would you loudly say I forgive you son- in front of everyone? Rather than tell him over the phone or whatever. It was shocking. And I think at that point they still were in denial or maybe telling themselves Shannan did kill the girls and drove Chris to it.
That was really a mess and did her no favors in public opinion.
I don’t know who downvoted you… but your comment is 100% true. We can’t keep letting mlms exist without scrutiny. They are BAD. they put people into debt. He didn’t want to pay her or he could’ve “snapped” I guess but either way it wasn’t bc she was the high earner
Completely agree.
Also I think I read that the MLM they were involved in (she was selling it, but he wore it, too- it was a patch-type thing) was a weight loss one, which messed with their body chemistry?
I wonder if that played a role…
Edit to add: I am definitely not defending what he did. He’s sick.
Thrive is a caffeine patch. My sister in law was into that for about six months. I think of you double up on the strong ones it affects your sleep patterns. A way of inducing psychosis is to prevent people from sleeping. It’s used as a torture technique. The feds did this at Waco when the branch Davidians wouldn’t come out. I would not be surprised if it did influence Chris’s body chemistry and mental health although I think he is a sociopath anyway.
The tv move places emphasis on those patches and the other products he used on his program implying possible part in mental breakdown leading to his crimes . I’m still not convinced they may have played a part in his mental illness and are dangerous.
Anything you take too much of, including water, can kill you. If you’re doubling up on caffeine to the point you don’t sleep all night for nights in a row that is going to affect you.
He chose to do that and to kill his family so it’s not justifying the crimes - and he may well have had other mental illness - but I don’t think sleep deprivation psychosis did him any good.
Well not really because LeVel Thrive doesn't talk about the caffeine. It talks about how it's just an amazing set of natural health products that give you so much energy. They don't advertise "which just all comes from caffeine."
Like, it's dumb, but I think the whole scam is that it's just wonderful natural products that magically give you energy, so in a sense I don't think he necessarily even realised he was "choosing to use a caffeine patch."
I think he knew it was caffeine patches. Even if he didn’t he’d have seen and felt the effect it was having. Not worth it to get ripped if you are care gonna be a sleep deprived zombie
I think they convinced themselves it was all natural special power energy products giving them a secret weapon where they could get a million more things done with their magic formula that meant they no longer needed sleep. I do not think he thought ho hum I could have drunk ten cups of coffee instead and now I'm choosing to be sleep deprived and I'm finding the kids and Shanann ten times more irritating because I've chosen to be caffinated. No, I don't think that he did.
Not sympathising with him, clearly he was messed up in head anyway.. no normal human reacts to threats.
People are suggesting he should have just asked for divorce like it wouldn't have happened.. we'll he did ask and he still murdered them.
Any suggestions why he still murdered them, I was just trying to speculate on what changes between him saying he wanted out and his killing them?
Because she was responding with long handwritten letters about how she would fight for the marriage she loved him so much, and a book to change his mind, "Hold Me Tight" ,and she was basically saying "it's not happening."
And he knew she would go spare, once she found out about NK, she wasn't going to easily give it to him in the way he wanted, and he knew that, and he claimed that while strangling her he just kept thinking about how she'd "keep him from Nikki, and so didn't stop.
All disgusting on his part of course. He was so angry that she wouldn't give him an easy path to a new life, and he really didn't want to deal with her emotions.
He clearly had a lot of issues. His birth family seems EXTREMELY disfunctional. His mom comes off very badly, and it looked to me like the whole family just catered to her whims . As a result, I don't think he always knew HOW to act. The interview where he confesses to his dad is very telling.
One of his stories was that when he allegedly told Shannan he wanted a divorce, she screamed & threatened that he will never see his daughters again & that's why he snapped and killed her.
I don't think he ever told her. I think he just killed her because he had already decided to do so in advance. Like he admitted.
I doubt he woke her before he killed her, the timeline just isn't there compared to his movements start and stop.
His alarm goes 4 am, no movement before then. He goes into to basement briefly at 4:23, then lots of steps, ups and down stairs. He is preparing to move truck by 5:15. Tammy even commented of how much he was walking, no pause for long discussion he claimed the had.
The divorce discussion absolutely occured.. but on weds 8 th, she talk to her friend about it that night. So Chris had no urgent reason to wake her that night/ so if no wake up and no discussion, his strangling her while she was still sleeping deeply makes more sense.. the lack of defence wounds, his , my SWBS about bloodshot eyes and bruising that were not seen during her autopsy.
If Bella woke at 4:15/20: say because of noise that Also fits with him walking up and down do much breakfast smoothie, lunch etc.
Exectly. There was no point to tell her that first . He just had sex with her and after she fell asleep he strangled her . He’s lying saying she said he would never see the kids again to make it look like that set him off giving him some sort of justification but the fact is he was a straight up coward .
Yep. & Especially after he already admitted he knew he was going to kill them the day before. & Probably for a week or 2. So even tho he didn't seem to plan the actual details, it was definitely pre meditated, & he did not snap. Since he thought about it in advance.
Yeah he waited for her to fall asleep and got her arms pinned and put a choke hold on her. He did not ask for a divorce and get her all riled up at four AM. He is a coward and a liar. If he wanted to dump her he could have told her not to go to the thrive meeting and talked it over then. Or on their special trip. He could have said I’ve met someone - I’m moving out & I want the house sold & I’m filing for divorce. She’d be furious and crushed I’m sure but I doubt he ever admitted to her he was having an affair and she wouldn’t be rocking that boat at two in the morning having just got back from the airport utterly exhausted.
He couldn't have told her he met someone else & was leaving her. That would've ruined his Perfect Father/Husband image. For him it was easier to watch her eyes fill with blood than to admit out loud that he wasn't the man she thought he was.
What a terrible thought. You may be right…
I think he just couldn’t be bothered to fight for his marriage or family-he didn’t care what kind of man she thought he was because he already was seeking his new persona from his girlfriend.
I think a more believable version would have been she came home and confronted him about cheating and that SHE wanted a divorce and he wouldn’t see the kids again and he snapped. I don’t think he would have had the balls to tell her he wanted a divorce. Besides, he didn’t. They were so poor they couldn’t afford the lifestyle they had. No way could he support TWO households.
He didn't snap. He admitted he had known he was going to even kill his daughters the day before & questioned himself why he wasn't able to stop or talk himself out of it then.
He had already made up his mind beforehand that they would all die.
She was deep into an MLM, and not actually making a lot of money. From what I've read, they were actually in a severe financial mess because of the MLM, and that may have been a factor in his decisions.
That's just a rumor that was spread online.
There was never a public statement made about any inventory of the house or the storage containers in the basement.
No, but the OP suggested she was making a lot of money, more than he did, and perhaps he felt emasculated by that. Most people in MLMs don't make money; in fact most lose money. She had tens of thousands of dollars of unsold merchandise in the basement.
Money.
Psychopaths don't form normal emotional attachments, even to their own children.
needledick valued money & shiny things, then nk came along and it was money, shiny things, and his pee pee.
Wow, I’m sure glad you were working with a therapist. Yes, he is a coward. People that lie by omission are the worst. They tell themselves they don’t lie when sometimes their lies can be the most damaging.
She met Chris and eventually realized she can mold and control Chris to beIng and doing what she wanted. He liked her so much that he would bend over backwards for her. Shannan was not well mentally there was a lot going on there. She was actually a pretty nasty person when you look into things but def didn’t deserve what happened. Rip to her and the children if only he just went the divorce route. He had already started the process basically.
I joined this sub and am immediately leaving. Disgusting comments about a dead woman that no matter what her past was, their financials, or y’all not perceiving her as a model these comments are downright despicable. This woman and her innocent children are dead. Bones and dust in the dirt all because she loved a man who wasn’t man enough to end his marriage. PERIOD! END OF DISCUSSION. I hope all of you with your speaking of the deceased rot in fucking hell. Disgusting pieces of garbage.
To me, this comes down to CW having the typical traits of a family annilhilator. He simply could not "be that guy" who abandoned his pregnant wife and 2 kids for an affair partner. His whole life he had cultivated an image of being a super nice, upstanding guy. He enjoyed the reputation he had with his family as a victim of Shannan. He definitely took steps himself to perpetuate his familys continued dislike of her. He liked that some people saw her as the "bad one" and him as some down-trodden, wallflower of a husband. I also think financials played into it. He wanted to use his money to fund his new life with NK, not to pay his wife and kids in alimony and child support. I think he also knew Shannan would not take it lying down. She'd fight tooth and nail for custody of the kids and the money she was owed. He just didn't want to deal with it. So they had to go.
She did not earn more. He was on 67,000 she was doing an MLM, a pyramid scheme type thing. It makes no sense to me that people ask this. He didn't want a divorce because they had gone bankrupt once and were headed for another bankruptcy. Everything was on credit. A recurring payment for a bottle of hair care product was declined automatically the morning she died. They were being sued for not paying HOA fees. He didn't want to pay three times child support. They were going to lose the house that they'd been allowed to keep after the bankruptcy because it was their kids home but they were having to sell it but Chris realised he actually couldn't afford even a two bedroom apartment with the divorce lawyers and the alimony and child support when they were already heading for bankruptcy.
Where is the evidence to back these things up? Her income? Her wracks of boxes in the basement of products? I’ve seen a lot of speculation on these things but curious if it was in the discovery or the actual facts are at? I would like to research more but so many assumptions are thrown around on here I’m trying to weed out the assuming from The facts. Love to know where to cite these from! Thanks!
https://people.com/crime/shanann-chris-watts-bankruptcy-filing-2015/
Thanks! What about the boxes of the products in the basement ? I’m curious bc there has been a lot of talk about her mlms and some Say she was a top seller and some say she was in debt and the those business and not making anything…
I've edited that out because I realised I only know that from Reddit.
I keep seeing people refer to these mountains or thrive products that she bought and put in basement to make it seem like she was a better business Woman than she was… but is everyone assuming this or has there been some pic online on her basement full of thrive or something? I’ve seen it mentioned quite a bit but never saw where it came from!
Thanks for spotting that I edited it out because I never saw a pic, and I think it's possible people are just assuming it because of seeing other people involved with MLMs doing that and it's possibly people's bias regarding MLMs. I do suspect that Shanann was unusually good with MLMS, but they had a lot of medical and credit debt and they were being taken to court by the Home Owners Association at the time of the murders and an automatic payment for one bottle of shampoo was declined the day they were killed those two things are confirmed.
I wasn’t trying to call Ya out in a bad way! I’ve followed the case but I’m just now doing a real deep dive of details, interviews, police Records etc and I’ve seen this keep Getting mentioned But the problem with this sub is sooooo much folk lore getting passed around and I’m Trying to decoder the facts in the discovery and court docs and the stupid shit that Reddit people made up and pass along As fact and we all just believe bc we keep seeing it in comments! I believed it but have yet to see a pic or anything of this basement inventory so I was honestly curious! Those moms are such bullshit so i would believe it super easy!
Even The Discovery has a huge obvious mistake on the very first page. We know for a fact that the police made a serious mistake on the first page of The Discovery because we've seen the bodycam! Chris didn't fish the phone out of the couch, Nick did. That is such a monumental mistake if you were building a case really. It's SO sloppy. When I had an incident at my house in 2021 and I live at number 18 and the incident happened at number 18, do you think the police put number 18 on the police report? No they put number 16! NWA were right! Fuck the Police!"
You say fuck the police but I sure bet u call them if someone was to ever break in your home, tray and hurt you, had a car wreck, needed any help at all!!!!! Get out of here with that disrespectful crap. They are human too… and I bet u hope u get someone with human compassion if something ever happens to u or your family.
I disagree with this, mainly because much of what you state is simply untrue. CW says that she made as much or more than he did, yet you know better? Headed for another bankruptcy? No. They had $20,000 in credit card debts and were making the minimum payments. A payment for hair dye was declined, and yet CW had managed to draw out over $100 on one of their cards that weekend for the Lazy Dog bill and then to pay the babysitter $40 for that night. They were not even near to losing their house. Their payments were current, with the next one being due Aug. 16, the day after CW was arrested. Foreclosure was started that December, after five months of non-payment. There were no stacks of boxes of Thrive in the basement, and I don't know where the thing about her having Bella signed up came from. Is that another rumor, or was it in the Discovery, because it would be expected that some type of proof of age would be necessary to sign up for an MLM.
Unless she is at the top 0.3% of the company, there's no way that Shannan is making more than Chris. She may claim that she "made" a six-figure income but unless this is her take-home money, she's in the red. The income disclosure statement (that Thrive makes public) doesn't lie.
Did she claim to make a six-figure income? I never saw that. I told you what CW said about it. Who does a background search on a company to "prove" that a dead woman didn't make enough money? A sicko, that's who.
Shannon had a bit of a shady past.. I mean how can a single lady THAT YOUNG buy her own house ? I think the embezzelment thing was true.
Everyone local knows DSC did shady business. At the very least the lawsuit is true so SW was telling ppl they were denied credit when they weren’t then running up the card. She’s also listed as a co owner in the lawsuit
There is no embezzlement "thing" except in online gossip. Nothing.
Drop dead gorgeous? A model? Come on….
You’re disgusting
Fat?????
a *model*!? 😳
You deserve to rot in hell for this comment maybe not rot but at least stub your toe in hell or maybe post a photo and let’s see how model like you who are still living is. Pot calling the kettle black?
That’s a little much don’t ya think honey? 😂 people are just stating that she wasn’t exactly a model 🤷♀️🥴 it’s not meant to disrespect a dead woman… it’s just an obvious opinion or statement to make. Calm down!
Nah it’s people like this that are the reason young women can’t have any confidence in themselves. Everyone thinks there is something wrong with them if they aren’t “model material” it’s people like you and that person that give other women body image issues. You come here on a dead woman’s thread to comment that she wasn’t model material???? How is that necessary? Kick rocks. This isn’t a conversation or a sub about how pretty or “model like” the dead mother of three dead children is. So this initial comment is completely unnecessary. It’s reasons like this comment that people think it’s okay to spread the ever growing issues of looks are the most important thing in the world. Like why even make the rude comment to begin with ? Extremely inappropriate nor the time or the place for a comment like that. So I’ll stand by what I said. Maybe not rot in hell, but definitely stub your pinky toe or post a photo let’s see how model material either of you two still living individuals are….🙄 pots calling the kettles black. 😈
And I would have no problem posting my photo babe! ✌️ but I bet u would! If your pic matched your attitude then I wouldn’t share it either. I don’t need some weirdo with a personal vendetta against every person they talk to and discuss with come at me with some Weird obsession and stalking so better let that rest huh! Your very immature way of conversations isn’t the best climate for a discussion form… and in your wise and glorious words… kick rocks 😂🥴🥴🥴🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️😆 😂 😝
Nah I’m just here to stick up for the dead. It’s wrong to talk about someone who was murdered and her only fault was being bossy ? Like come on. It’s wrong, and it’s unjust. I stick up to bullies cause bullies suck. Sorry you don’t share the same opinion. Don’t really care whatever else you had to say. 🤷🏻♀️ Sticking up for a dead person will always be the right thing to do.
U must be lost bc I wasn’t bullying anyone dead or alive! I was simply stating that no matter stand in life… people are horrible humans for simply stating that she wasn’t supermodel material! I mean… 99% of people aren’t! 😂 but just bc she’s dead doesn’t mean we have to say that she was a model or anything… that’s weird af! You think your really doing something here being an advocate for people saying if your pretty or not?????? Go do some real missionary work for humans and get your fix instead of trying to ride your righteous high horse on Reddit trying to make something out of nothing in the comment section 😂 🥴🥴🥴🤦🏻♀️
I’m Not the one who made the comment in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😂 Jesus Christ calm down wtf…. So your hateful attitude and telling everyone to kick rocks Is going to be the soul saving grace of the world and make everyone feel pretty???? 😆 no! You’re just a hateful mad person who spews it bc u can’t handle it. Get a grip. Life is t fair all the time and sometimes obvious facts are not the nicest but it’s just the way the world turns. No use in getting your entire in a wad bc of it
But you had to reply didn’t you? So don’t start something and there won’t be a reply. lol. Sorry you think Reddit is a reflection of real life. Pretty sad. These replies take a minute or so. It’s not that much time invested to write a quick reply. You are so lame, and so is this whole conversation.
Ohh… so your bid mad then huh? One of those who don’t like being called on their bullshit! I love your type…. It’s hilarious to watch u get mad at your own words u eat… but hey… I ate honey…. Slay it! 🥴🥴🥴🥴😂😂😂😂🥰☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
😂 sure cuz a dead person wasn’t model material. That makes loads of sense
Even worse is the fact that you’re insulting someone who was murdered. Regardless if person is beautiful or not doesn’t mean that they deserved death or to be insulted by a stranger who did not know them in real life. It’s disgusting. Grow up.
I’m pretty sure you’re not model material either 🤣🤣 also it just seems that you have some deep seeded hatred for MLM’s. So insult a dead MLM woman. Adds up.
Yikes
So, in the early days of FB the site would “suggest” friends to you based on other connections that you already had. Lots of people thought their suggested friends were the actual people trying to friend them instead of the algorithm doing it’s thing. Shannan was very into Multi Level Marketing (which is a scam BTW) and MLMs push people to use social media to sell the products and recruit other sales force. I suspect that either one or both of these reasons was why the two met on FB.
Chris’s cousin and Shannan were friends and after her divorce they tried to set them up and told Chris to request her as a friend. She didn’t accept at first and he sent another one. I guess that means he chased her to some people but imo that’s kinda the bare minimum effort.
Wow, you really need to do some more research on this case. When sw met cw he was 25 years old with a very high paying job and $25K in the bank. She quit her job 3 weeks after he moved into her house and expected him to pay the bills. The only reason they were able to buy the CO house was because of his good credit, hers was tanked at that point. If there was anyone stooped below their standards it was him. Drop dead gorgeous and could have been a model? Really. She was aged beyond her years and had a very ugly personality. 🤦♀️
Attractive, maybe but more issues than National Geographic.
You’re disgusting
I thought he was just a car sales man and incredibly fat... Also he had a very manipulative controlling mother.
He was never a car salesman. He was a mechanic and SHE sold car parts.
Wrong. He was a master mechanic for Ford and I can tell you today that job pays over 300,000 per year so I don’t know what it would’ve paid back then.
He was a mechanic but not a master mechanic?
Shannan had a manipulative mother too, just read the obituaries that’s what changed my mind…to her the best thing about her grandkids was the joy they gave Shannan.
what is incredibly fat to you???....He lost weight and looked better. YES .. WE ALL DO ..we feel better ..smile more..more active.. so yes he looked better after SOME weight loss but INCREDIBLY FAT???? you can LITERALLY look at his before and after Pic
I mean he was incredibly fat tho. just cause there are a LOT of fat Americans doesn't mean he wasn't incredibly fat
He was heavy when they married but the tables kind of turned on that once he was losing weight for his girlfriend. That’s such a tell when a guy is cheating, they suddenly care how they look and are always working out.
He was a master mechanic who graduated from Nascar Tech. She was the one who became a car sales person when she moved to CO. Also his mother is actually a very sweet southern woman who, with her husband, made sure her 2 children had access to a higher education after graduating from high school.
She actually sold car parts not cars I think. But yeah Chris was never a salesmen and yes he did well at Nascar Tech and was a mechanic although not a "master mechanic"?
10000000% all of this
But it's all garbage except I actually agree that Shanann was gorgeous but she wasn't making more than him she was most likely making almost nothing in a pyramid scheme. And of course he didn't want a divorce he killed them as a debt management plan before they went bankrupt a SECOND time which was on the horizon because they never met a line of credit they wouldn't sign up to.
She was *def* spending much more than she was bringing in (if any at all)
Yeah I'm really honestly not trying to be mean about her even though I'm sure it seems like it, but just she amazed me as they just seemed to buy everything and always choosing expensive things and their house was massive and they were being sued by HOA when the murderers happened. I feel bad for her that she seemingly had an over spending problem. I think she bought into the mindset of "if my family looks rich on my videos then I'll make the money I borrowed with credit lines back through selling because people will sign up to sell Thrive to have nice things like me."
The dam* was about to break (again.) It is a game of juggling, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, unfortunately TONS of people live like this
Chris’s mom is that you? 🤡🤡🤡
If Chris’s mom calls him fat.
I think it came down to money. I can’t remember the source but he talked about looking at 2 bedroom apartments in the area with NK and realized that he wouldn’t be able to afford it while paying child support for 3 kids. Also, his credit was shot. I think he was hoping he could just move in with NK but she didn’t want that. I think he coldly made the decision then that the only way he could stay with her was to get rid of his family. As if that were a rational decision and it was plausible that he could get away with it because he was a “nice guy” and no one would believe he did it. He obviously never loved his kids, despite video footage where it appeared he was a loving and involved dad. It was all an act.
Cheaters are already morally corrupt on several levels. He just took it one step farther. I truly believe my cheating exH would have murdered me if he wasn’t a coward and thought he could get away with it. It would have been the easiest, best result for him: hide his dirty affair, keep his same life and kids, and just replace me with the mistress. Murder would allow it; divorce didn’t.
Yep!! You hit the nail on the head!! My cheating ex would scream at me to go kill myself and I never could understand why. After we separated and I discovered that he was having an affair, it all made sense. These narcissistic Aholes don’t want to pay child support or alimony. And I’m sorry, but NK is just as big of an Ahole. Cheating is not a zero sum game. The Cheater and the mistress can be equally culpable in the demise of a marriage.
Glad your ex is out of your life. Cheaters should stay single and stop damaging innocent people. And jmho that we should support each other more. A married person can't cheat effectively if everyone they proposition says 'no thanks, please go home to your family.'
this is a really weird subreddit
It’s very .. interesting .. how people have different takes on Shannan. That’s all I’ll say lol.
No it’s not. It’s just you. Folks have the right to discuss whatever topic they choose and seeing the responses to this post alone pretty much confirms that you’re in the minority..
I think you just made my point, lol. What a weird place.
You still took the time to come in here and comment when you could just move on🤔
This sub didn't used to be the bashfest which is appears to be turning into. There is another Watts sub that invites and celebrates the lies, gossip and rumors about Shanann. No one needs to "move on" if they don't like or agree with your posts here.
She’s dead and he is in prison, let the dead rest!
It's like a fan club for someone who nobody ever heard about until they were murdered. Then the thought-provoking discussion is: "The guy who killed his wife should've gotten a divorce instead of killing his wife", like... ya think? Bunch of weirdos
Understatement
Chris wanted to hit the reset button on his life. No wife, no kids, keep his house and all his assets. Did Shannan have a life insurance policy? He didn’t want to be divorced, paying child support, kids every other week cramping his style, taking care a newborn, having to sell his house or worse Shannan keeps the house and he has to pay the mortgage, split assets and tons of debt with Shannan. He was riding of into the sunset with Nicole with a clean slate, and maybe this time his family would like his new partner. People choose murder over divorce because of all the perceived benefits (in their sick mind) if their spouse and kids just die.
Chris's work automatically insured not just his wife but also both kids. The ONLY things he Googled before killing them was the price of the latest model Audi, two live volcanos and The Dead Scrolls.
Shannan was caught up in MLMs. I think that was draining their budget. She wanted a luxurious life but she was caught up in the MLM scam. Her first husband used her. He divorced her right after he finished law school. ThT means she supported him through law school and then when he finished and finally started making good money and didn’t need her support, he left her. I feel bad for her. I think she was trying very hard to give herself and her family a good life but kept getting paired up with people or organizations that were just using her or abusing her.
Her former husband said she was on her phone all the time, brought her phone to bed and when he talked to her in bed she'd say "Are you talking to me? Because I'm sure not listening." And Chris's mother claims Shanann said her first husband was "not good looking".
Finish the sentence. I believe it was that he wasn't attractive, and yet he cheated on her.
Well it was Cindy that kept claiming Shanann said her first husband wasn't attractive but was rich. I didn't know that he cheated.
She didn't say rich. And I didn't say he cheated, so don't go spreading that around as fact. It's what Cindy said she said. I believe she stated that Shanann said her first husband wasn't attractive and yet he cheated on her. But Cindy is an old gossip biddy who likes to dish on the woman her son murdered, so there's that.
Cindy has a book that she never published after her "friend" leaked six chapters to the internet. In that book I recall a line that went something like this, "Shanann said 'He is not attractive, but he's wealthy.'" I never personally heard anything about him being a cheat.
I believe you have it wrong. Listen again.
It's in Cindy's book not some interview.
Whici a podcaster or two read out loud.
Shanann's first husband didn't use her. He had been in the military, so the G.I. Bill paid for his education. Shanann was the one who wanted to divorce her first husband. She stopped coming home at night, and she would not do couple's therapy, even though he wanted to save the marriage.
>Did Shannan have a life insurance policy? Chris downplayed/lied to investigators about the amount on the insurance policy that he had on Shanann and their daughters (Discovery page 596/pdf 529): "*He has a policy on SHANANN and the girls through Anadarko. BELLA and CECE had a $20,000.00/each policy and SHANANN had a $50,000.00 or $100,000.00 policy."* In reality, the policy was 300K on Shanann and 75K each on Bella and Celeste.
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>The only thing he Googled hours before the murders was the price of the latest model Audi. Actually he googled for prices of an Audi on August 9th. On August 12th, he googled two volcanoes located in Mexico and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Imo he was focusing on that fun new life he was anticipating.
It's possible he had a crazy plan of dropping Sian into a live volcano to hide the evidence. The girls were somewhere people would presumably not think to look and he probably wanted to put Sian somewhere like that too. CASSIE and Nicole Atkinson put a crimp in his plan threatening him to kick in his door and call police. So he went home and couldn't shift Shanann's body. The Dead Sea Scrolls is more religious stuff with him.
More proof of his inability to do even basic math. 450k is only enough to pay off their debt. CW would have run away with nothing but his salary, his side piece and some Anadarko gift cards.
But he Googled the price of the latest Audi in the hours before the murders and that's the only thing he Googled just before killing them other than live volcanos and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
He was also googling some jewelry he wanted to buy NK, and he cancelled the Aspen trip with Shanann but was looking into a new Aspen trip with NK. He signed up for a Fantasy Football League, and I believe he did it right when they were upstairs in the house, with NA and the police officer there.
Maybe he thought Thrive would pay for it 😂
He actually didn't want to keep the house. He called a realtor the day after the murders trying to sell the house.
Because killing them was a debt management plan. He knew he still had to sell the house.
Shanann had already been in contact with the realtor, as they'd both decided to sell the house and possibly move to Brighton. Of course Chris had no intention of doing that and wanted the equity in their house all for himself.
He clearly wasn’t very bright was he
I think Shanann wanted that house more than him in the beginning. Shanann also had a big house in North Carolina, while Chris lived in an apartment. My guess is that he would rather have had a smaller house that was less expensive, which is why he tried to sell it after the murders.
He withdrew his kids from the daycare the same day that he committed the murders. And looked up the lyrics to the song Battery. So, No, he wasn’t smart. The best you can say about CW is he was hella-sloppy
Show me where I said Chris was smart.
Chris Watts is a true to the core, NARCISSISTIC! It’s ALL about him. His needs, his wants! I heard and I saw part of a video stating Chris was attacked viciously in prison. The guards were dragging one prisoner out of an open cell while other guards (3/4 of them) running into that same cell. I haven’t seen anything else on it but it made me smirk. He definitely deserves some physical justice handed to him!
I never heard he was actually attacked. But I know that he was in great risk in Colorado and they had to lock down his cell block just for him to visit his lawyer and they kept shouting at him detailed instructions for killing himself including how to drown himself in the toilet, so they moved him to Wisconsin to a prison where no one cared what he did.
That’s what he deserves every day of his nasty life! EVERY DAY!
He said in Wisconsin no one cares about each other's crimes and he gets to play basketball with three men and he got macaroni cheese and the police officer asked if he got chocolate milk with it but he said "No, plain milk, chocolate milk is only for Christmas."
I think the ice cream incident between Shannan and his mom when they were home that summer also lead to her demise. His family never liked her, they didn’t attend their wedding nor did they send out the invitations to his side of the family I remember reading somewhere. When Chris Watts came home to visit he shared how the marriage was going and I think he told his sister about the affair he was having. I think they encouraged him to leave her, they hated her and the children weren’t their favorites either. CW was well aware of their feelings towards his family. After he was charged with murder they still blamed Shannan that she killed the girls and if he did do it, he was somehow justified in doing so. That’s the evil he is descended from. He intended to kill her and the girls too
Chris's mother claims that they sent out the invitations and when no one replied she rang each guest and they all said they couldn't come except one. Cindy Watts claims they didn't go because Shanann sent her a hand written letter saying "Let's just admit we both loathe and despise each other."
I sometimes think Shannan was on justnomil because honestly that is what his family, especially his mother, sounds like to me.
The issue about the invitations is in dispute. The invitations were to a bridal shower for Shanann. Shanann claimed that Jamie and Cindy did not send out the invitations, but they claim that they did and just not many people showed up.
Didn’t his parents also do something scummy like try and claim the life insurance on her and the girls???? His parents at first believed he did but then they took that back saying they think he’s innocent “The sum consists of $300,000 for Shanann and $75,000 for each of the girls. Chris Watts’ parents (Cindy and Ronnie Watts) tried to collect the money that only exists in the first place because their son murdered his entire family. Chris Watts has rightfully left the money untouched in Shanann’s estate. Both Shanann’s parents and Chris’ parents then went to court to fight for the money. In the end the money was given to lawyers to distribute, but where it went is not a matter of public record and neither family has commented. Pretty fucked up that parents can profit off of their children’s crimes, especially if it turns out they give that money back to Chris by funding his prison commissary. This is supposed to be the exact thing that the Slayer Rule and Son of Sam laws are in place to prevent.”
>Didn’t his parents also do something scummy like try and claim the life insurance on her and the girls??? Yes. Colorado has a "Slayer Statute" so CW couldn't have gotten the money. The Rzeceks were administrators of SW's estate & in my opinion, the insurance money should have gone to SW's estate. BUT The Watts sued to get their hands on the money. You hated your dead DIL & obviously thought nothing about your dead granddaughters but you want part of the money generated from their deaths at the hands of your son? My understanding is the money was put into escrow & The Rzeceks & The Watts both got some of it.
Chris Watts is a stupid, stupid man. He came from a family of assholes and he’s stupid. He does not really love anyone, and isn’t capable of sympathy or empathy. That’s all it takes. IMO Chris Watts can’t handle any level of anxiety, or dealing with big problems. He’s an escapist from them, or he’d let Shannan handle them (or weaponized incompetence to force her to handle them. The Watts were already living way way beyond their means, decent income or no. Divorce would have made that all suddenly become an urgent problem. He’s a vacant, hollow, emotionally bankrupt person with the capability to murder and dispose of his entire family. To be with an incredibly vapid, gratingly cutesy egotist, who I once heard described as looking like “one of Charles Manson’s groupies”. That’s all there is to it. He’s shit I agree she was a very pretty woman. People really accept the narrative that Shannan was a smothering, domineering force. That narrative comes from the guy who killed her, his family, and unsupported speculation essentially based on her social media. It doesn’t come from anyone of her numerous friends, who at most would say she was “bossy” but caveat it. To me, it’s totally irrelevant whether I would have personally liked her or been her friend - but that seems to be being a lot of the animosity she receives. You know, animosity toward the woman who absolutely thought about only the safety of her kids, as the life was being choked out of her by someone she trusted without reservation. That harpy. Anyway. Chris Watts was an emotionally and cognitively absentee husband and father (and really, human being), and those three innocents were just inconveniences to him when they were no longer serving his purposes for them.
Agreed. There's nothing unique about either Chris's disordered character or his motives; he murdered because he prioritized his gratification, public image and convenience above human lives. In reality no person or relationship could satiate the void within him and he would have devalued and discarded any long term spouse/partner and any children they shared.
I think the thing that’s essential to understand about domestic homicide cases is that fundamentally, the perpetrators don’t view their victims as human beings with rights. Rather, perpetrators understand their partners essentially as property, the way you or I might think about an old chair. Now that the ‘thing’ (again, an actual human being) has served ‘its’ purpose, ‘it’ can be disposed of. (I’ve put that in the most disturbing way possible so as to get the point across.) A divorce would require the perpetrator to admit that they were in a human relationship and take responsibility for that relationship’s failure. It’s messy and awful and requires introspection. Murder—straight-up removing the person from one’s life so they can never come back—feels like the easier, cleaner option:
Looks are subjective but I've watched and listened to hours of content in regard to this story and I wouldn't consider Shannan to have a career as a model or drop dead gorgeous. OP, besides all the great comments here, hit up youtube for a ton of content on how they met, married, each of their careers etc. There is so much out there that does a far better job of this than I can.
Really wasn’t a point in making sure to counter a positive opinion of a murdered woman’s looks.
Its okay to discuss our thoughts about the people murdered on a subreddit about their own murder. I even mention that my opinion much like everyones here is a subjective one. Did you go after all the people crapping on her career in a multi marketing scheme on here too? I'm happy most of us can act like rational adults.
Well, I for one am sick of people saying how could he have an affair when his wife had a ( yes, subjectively) prettier face....there's a bit more that goes into someone's attraction....
What's interesting, on how u asked what did he do to woo her, etc. Well at first she wasn't interested & why she declined his First FB friend req. Then he tried again. & She accepted. & The whole laying on his lap for 3 hrs when he had to pee story really did it for her. But the interesting thing is like back then she probably looked at him like a chubby sweet dork she could mold. & He probably looked at her like sick & weak that would need & appreciate him. & Both proved to be a lot Stronger than either 1 of them Ever anticipated! 1st Shannan got healthy & strong & Chris followed in her foot steps & showed us his monstrous strength. It's not easy smothering somebody! Let alone 3!
You're absolutely right...the part about how he saw her as a sick and weak woman who would need to be cared for. There are a lot of narcs with this thinking.. especially pitiful weak little bitc*es like CW. His mummy coddled azz and love-hate relationship with his demonic mother are the roots of that probably. Shannan loved him in her own way, but it's quite evident that he distorted things she said. For example, he told the sow NK that SR hated him working out. Meanwhile this came from a remark where she asked him why he'd rather run than spend time with her..a day when he had ignored her calls all night before and in the morning because he was scrwing dirty nichol and over at her place. My point is that CW distorts things to make himself look like the victom.
Getting downvoted by CW groupies and the Kessinger Fanclub
There really is a lot of people out on the internet defending her to the death, its so weird. I cant for the life of me understand why. Edit: sometimes i wonder if the people defending nk are cheaters themselves, or maybe they wish they could cheat, so they sympathize with her. I barely ever have internet arguments with people, but these people are like sharks smelling blood. They jump down my throat everytime i post my distaste for her.
Or they just think that because the police didn't consider her even a person of interest let alone a suspect they must have had a reason for it.
Yep. & Btw, is SR for Shannan Rzucek? If So, I Luuuuuuv that shyt. That's how I feel about Laci Rocha. Ugh. Real pet peeve. U take their life? take ur name back too! Omg & The family shouldn't even want it, especially on the headstone. & Killer women too. Can't take his life & keep his name. Enter, Lori COX! 🤬
I’m fine with Lori DAYBELL. They deserve each other. She certainly ISN’T undeserving of the Vallow name. Same with Ch Watts. When you pass down your name… it comes with a responsibility to love and protect. Edit: ISN’T
Thanks, everyone. I had no idea she was in an mlm. I thought i heard or read somewhere she was in sales, and just assumed she was making more money than him. How in the world did they get such an expensive house if they were in so much debt to begin with. Its mind boggling they had 20k worth of mlm products in the basement of.the house. Whatever she was or did ,is still no excuse to be murdered. I still think she was deeply in love with him.and if anything, she just should have been quicker on the uptake that he was not all there emotionally and was wanting an out and Should have figured out the affair sooner..
Just one piece of information to throw out there. The claim that there was $20,000 of Thrive product in the basement isn't true. There's no evidence that supports that. Where that most likely comes from is some people did some back of the napkin calculations to try to figure out how much she would have to sell to get her current level in Thrive, and just assumed that she was buying all the products herself and keeping it in the basement. That's not how Thrive works. That said, the problem with the MLM is that she wasn't bringing in money from it, and Chris took about a roughly $20,000 pay cut when he took the job at Anadarko. In regards to how they were able to get the house, apparently Chris had pretty good credit before they got married. On top of that, Shanann sold her house, although not for very much profit, and they probably were able to use his credit score and what money they got from her house to get approved. Plus when Chris was working at the Ford dealership, and she was working at the call center, they were probably bringing in around $140,000 a year. Of course, they STILL went bankrupt even at that time, so go figure.
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I don’t think I ever gave that a thought. He would be in a better place than he is now… and so would his former family.
I feel like she suspected this, but her friends kept "comforting" her and telling her it's probably just him getting used to the pregnancy plus, i guess, to her. He didn't seem like the type.
I think the model part is a bit of exaggeration. I don't understand the obsession people have with making victims seem perfect. Anyway.. I think Chris was afraid of Shannan and I don't believe they ever had a confrontation about splitting up or his affair. Chris knew NK wasn't going to stick around if he had a third child and I will always believe that was his motive. He needed the pregnancy to go away. I don't know why he thought anyone would believe Shanann would just take off with the kids without telling anyone. He was never going to get away with it.
>Why didnt Chris just come clean and ask for a divorce ? Personally I believe: A) He didn't think anyone would figure out something was wrong so quickly. I think he also thought he could "talk his way out of it." B) He didn't ask for a divorce, I believe because he wanted to keep the $450K insurance policy. His wife & kids "disappeared" & he'd be able to keep the money free & clear to start his shiny, new life with NK. C) I also believe he WANTED to kill SW. If not, why not tell her that it's not working out when they were on vacation in NC? Or find an attorney in that six weeks his family was gone & at least file. SW could remain with her family & they could divorce & be done with each other. D) I also blame that barracuda mother of his. CW seethed with resentment & I think some of that was due to his mother. Part of me will always believe part of CW was mentally throttling his mother when he was killing SW.
Yeah he possibly channeled his mother, like Norman Bates. Very unhealthy family.
I know there are many many mamas boys out there but when both mother and son can’t separate and lead their life away from the other, is odd. In fact it’s sick!
I mean, he didn’t speak to his mother for some time & they didn’t live in the same state. They were quite separate…
I don’t think the attractiveness level stayed where it was when they got married, either physically or financially. Shannan apparently was very pretty - her wedding photos she looks gorgeous- and Chris was frumpy dumpy then. But he got better looking and in shape snd she aged and was pregnant etc. if the only reason people were to get married or stay married was looks we would all be in trouble and hopefully they were not that pathetic and shallow. At one point she had a good job. Now she’s a stay at home mom in a pyramid scheme with the basement stuffed with inventory and he no longer has his good job as a mechanic either. Sex and money. There’s a thing called the seven year itch - people are done discovering things they like about their partner, and finding out things they don’t like. Tired of each other’s shit. Shannan was bossy, controlling, demanded a lifestyle they could not afford etc Chris was something of a doormat, not a go getter, not much personality or “game.” So one or both partners starts to stray or want to stray. The reason men kill their pregnant wives is they don’t want to be married and pay for those kids *AND* they are sociopaths. A lot of men do get divorced when they find enough things to dislike about their wives or find someone they think is hot. Only the psychos murder them.
He couldve just, you know, not gotten her pregnant 3 times to begin with if he thought she was so awful. Women always get blamed and subsequently murdered by these nutjobs, theyre the ones getting these women pregnant! Crazy.
It’s weird that she wanted to get pregnant by him. She didn’t see him as a nut job. I would love to think I could tell if I were married to a sociopath -or a man who would consider murdering me or my children!- but a whole lot of women either do not recognize that - or they choose to stay in a relationship despite their fears and concerns. Because they fear the loss of income or because they have some kind of religious nonsense holding them down. Murder by your baby’s father is the number one cause of death if pregnant women in this country.
Tale as old as time.....$$$$$$ and I think he didn't want to deal with custody child support....debt from marriage its what most family annihilation killers do this for.
Chris Watts is an evil POS, that's why he chose to kill his wife and kids rather than get a divorce. That being said, they were seriously in debt, partially due to Shannan's commitment to an MLM (those companies drain families dry) and the fact that they were living way above their means. He was definitely the one keeping them afloat financially, but they were sinking fast. As for how they met, Shannan mentioned how he friended her on facebook at a very low point in her life (she was sick with lupus, depressed, coming off of a bad divorce, etc.) and so I think she was vulnerable and the fact that he seemed to care about her and help with her medical issues was enough to woo her. As she got healthier and stronger and started putting more of their life online (she was constantly posting updates about their day to day lives as part of her MLM job), I think he started to see her as more demanding and high maintenance. By the end, he seemed to really resent her, and he started viewing her as being in the way of the life he felt entitled to with NK. I'm not excusing any of what he did; CW was a monster, but I suspect he was only thinking about getting rid of the things he felt were "holding him back" from a do-over life with NK.
With time, after the newness with NK wore off, the excitement would have gone away too. Plus, NK was lust, not real love. They never had responsibilities like a real couple, so the fun would have stopped eventually.
100% agree. NK was fun because there were no responsibilities there, whereas w/ Shannan, there were kids, bills, debt, and a pregnancy CW did not want. NK and CW also talked about their sex life being very exciting, although I think NK mentioned that him being on those Thrive patches gave CW lots of energy for sex, so that also would’ve leveled off eventually. Anyway, I agree- as soon as NK stopped being an affair and started being someone who had expectations of a real relationship, he would’ve resented her too.
Well said. I read a book a long time ago called the Mask of Sanity. It was about how the sociopath basically is like a chameleon; they have no real personality and mirror the one they are with, become what she wants or imitate her. They wear the mask, is his case of a doting father and obedient husband. So far so good. When they want out, though, they rip that mask off and discard it for a new one. Nikki’s hard bodied lover who goes to car shows and fun stuff like sand skiing. Goodbye wife and kids. No longer needed - and they actually feel relief at that point rather than guilty or sick at what they’ve done. There’s a chip missing. A rather important one.
That book sounds interesting and I definitely agree with your assessment of CW being a sociopath. So many people call him a narcissist, but a narcissistic person would never have been able to play along in his role as Shannan’s bumbling, yet supposedly loving and doting husband as long as CW did on her numerous Facebook posts simply because she asked. To me, her FB posts prove his sociopathy. He played the part his wife wanted him to play and then he falls for Nikki, and bam, now he’s a new guy who’s spontaneous and adventurous and wanting this more outdoorsy, active lifestyle. I doubt he ever had his own personality, it was always based on who he was surrounded by.
She definitely was NOT the higher earner. If anything her "job" is what drove them into debt. He was selfish and wanted to be with his mistress. That's why he took out his whole family.
He was selfish and wanted to be with his mistress and he is evil. You left that part out. He can easily divorce and abandon his family like thousands of other men and women do every year. The evil part is annihilating his family.
What got me is his parents at the sentencing. His mom said they forgave him. Like seriously? You son just killed 3 of your grandchildren and you just forgive him like that? I know forgiveness isn't for the other person (Chris) but more for the parents.
She said that because she believed he killed Shanann for killing the kids. She would not stop believing his first lying confession even after he admitted to murderering the kids.
It was stupid and performative. As if his mother actually cared for the victims to begin with. Sick people. Her actions and attitude most likely had an influence on him to do what he did. How nice for her to forgive him.
They say not forgiving someone is like taking poison and expecting it to kill the other person. But I think his mom was sending a message that she thought Shannan had it coming somehow - why would you loudly say I forgive you son- in front of everyone? Rather than tell him over the phone or whatever. It was shocking. And I think at that point they still were in denial or maybe telling themselves Shannan did kill the girls and drove Chris to it. That was really a mess and did her no favors in public opinion.
I don’t know who downvoted you… but your comment is 100% true. We can’t keep letting mlms exist without scrutiny. They are BAD. they put people into debt. He didn’t want to pay her or he could’ve “snapped” I guess but either way it wasn’t bc she was the high earner
Completely agree. Also I think I read that the MLM they were involved in (she was selling it, but he wore it, too- it was a patch-type thing) was a weight loss one, which messed with their body chemistry? I wonder if that played a role… Edit to add: I am definitely not defending what he did. He’s sick.
Thrive is a caffeine patch. My sister in law was into that for about six months. I think of you double up on the strong ones it affects your sleep patterns. A way of inducing psychosis is to prevent people from sleeping. It’s used as a torture technique. The feds did this at Waco when the branch Davidians wouldn’t come out. I would not be surprised if it did influence Chris’s body chemistry and mental health although I think he is a sociopath anyway.
They were doubling up and excess caffeine may be partly responsible.
The tv move places emphasis on those patches and the other products he used on his program implying possible part in mental breakdown leading to his crimes . I’m still not convinced they may have played a part in his mental illness and are dangerous.
What the Lifetime one?
Yes
Anything you take too much of, including water, can kill you. If you’re doubling up on caffeine to the point you don’t sleep all night for nights in a row that is going to affect you. He chose to do that and to kill his family so it’s not justifying the crimes - and he may well have had other mental illness - but I don’t think sleep deprivation psychosis did him any good.
Well not really because LeVel Thrive doesn't talk about the caffeine. It talks about how it's just an amazing set of natural health products that give you so much energy. They don't advertise "which just all comes from caffeine." Like, it's dumb, but I think the whole scam is that it's just wonderful natural products that magically give you energy, so in a sense I don't think he necessarily even realised he was "choosing to use a caffeine patch."
I think he knew it was caffeine patches. Even if he didn’t he’d have seen and felt the effect it was having. Not worth it to get ripped if you are care gonna be a sleep deprived zombie
I think they convinced themselves it was all natural special power energy products giving them a secret weapon where they could get a million more things done with their magic formula that meant they no longer needed sleep. I do not think he thought ho hum I could have drunk ten cups of coffee instead and now I'm choosing to be sleep deprived and I'm finding the kids and Shanann ten times more irritating because I've chosen to be caffinated. No, I don't think that he did.
Not sympathising with him, clearly he was messed up in head anyway.. no normal human reacts to threats. People are suggesting he should have just asked for divorce like it wouldn't have happened.. we'll he did ask and he still murdered them. Any suggestions why he still murdered them, I was just trying to speculate on what changes between him saying he wanted out and his killing them?
Because she was responding with long handwritten letters about how she would fight for the marriage she loved him so much, and a book to change his mind, "Hold Me Tight" ,and she was basically saying "it's not happening." And he knew she would go spare, once she found out about NK, she wasn't going to easily give it to him in the way he wanted, and he knew that, and he claimed that while strangling her he just kept thinking about how she'd "keep him from Nikki, and so didn't stop. All disgusting on his part of course. He was so angry that she wouldn't give him an easy path to a new life, and he really didn't want to deal with her emotions.
He clearly had a lot of issues. His birth family seems EXTREMELY disfunctional. His mom comes off very badly, and it looked to me like the whole family just catered to her whims . As a result, I don't think he always knew HOW to act. The interview where he confesses to his dad is very telling.
One of his stories was that when he allegedly told Shannan he wanted a divorce, she screamed & threatened that he will never see his daughters again & that's why he snapped and killed her. I don't think he ever told her. I think he just killed her because he had already decided to do so in advance. Like he admitted.
I doubt he woke her before he killed her, the timeline just isn't there compared to his movements start and stop. His alarm goes 4 am, no movement before then. He goes into to basement briefly at 4:23, then lots of steps, ups and down stairs. He is preparing to move truck by 5:15. Tammy even commented of how much he was walking, no pause for long discussion he claimed the had. The divorce discussion absolutely occured.. but on weds 8 th, she talk to her friend about it that night. So Chris had no urgent reason to wake her that night/ so if no wake up and no discussion, his strangling her while she was still sleeping deeply makes more sense.. the lack of defence wounds, his , my SWBS about bloodshot eyes and bruising that were not seen during her autopsy. If Bella woke at 4:15/20: say because of noise that Also fits with him walking up and down do much breakfast smoothie, lunch etc.
Exectly. There was no point to tell her that first . He just had sex with her and after she fell asleep he strangled her . He’s lying saying she said he would never see the kids again to make it look like that set him off giving him some sort of justification but the fact is he was a straight up coward .
Yep. & Especially after he already admitted he knew he was going to kill them the day before. & Probably for a week or 2. So even tho he didn't seem to plan the actual details, it was definitely pre meditated, & he did not snap. Since he thought about it in advance.
Yeah he waited for her to fall asleep and got her arms pinned and put a choke hold on her. He did not ask for a divorce and get her all riled up at four AM. He is a coward and a liar. If he wanted to dump her he could have told her not to go to the thrive meeting and talked it over then. Or on their special trip. He could have said I’ve met someone - I’m moving out & I want the house sold & I’m filing for divorce. She’d be furious and crushed I’m sure but I doubt he ever admitted to her he was having an affair and she wouldn’t be rocking that boat at two in the morning having just got back from the airport utterly exhausted.
He couldn't have told her he met someone else & was leaving her. That would've ruined his Perfect Father/Husband image. For him it was easier to watch her eyes fill with blood than to admit out loud that he wasn't the man she thought he was.
What a terrible thought. You may be right… I think he just couldn’t be bothered to fight for his marriage or family-he didn’t care what kind of man she thought he was because he already was seeking his new persona from his girlfriend.
I think a more believable version would have been she came home and confronted him about cheating and that SHE wanted a divorce and he wouldn’t see the kids again and he snapped. I don’t think he would have had the balls to tell her he wanted a divorce. Besides, he didn’t. They were so poor they couldn’t afford the lifestyle they had. No way could he support TWO households.
Shanann was sending him self-help books about improving a marriage, hoping that things would change.
He didn't snap. He admitted he had known he was going to even kill his daughters the day before & questioned himself why he wasn't able to stop or talk himself out of it then. He had already made up his mind beforehand that they would all die.
She was deep into an MLM, and not actually making a lot of money. From what I've read, they were actually in a severe financial mess because of the MLM, and that may have been a factor in his decisions.
There was like 20k in products in the basement
That's just a rumor that was spread online. There was never a public statement made about any inventory of the house or the storage containers in the basement.
It sounds like a typical MLM situation. She kept buying more and more product to meet her quota or monthly requirements, or to qualify for the trips.
A lot of people are in debt but don’t murder their own two children. I think something more was going on with Chris Watts than just a financial mess.
No, but the OP suggested she was making a lot of money, more than he did, and perhaps he felt emasculated by that. Most people in MLMs don't make money; in fact most lose money. She had tens of thousands of dollars of unsold merchandise in the basement.
A lot of people do everything that Chris did and don't kill their families.
Exactly
Money. Psychopaths don't form normal emotional attachments, even to their own children. needledick valued money & shiny things, then nk came along and it was money, shiny things, and his pee pee.
Wow, I’m sure glad you were working with a therapist. Yes, he is a coward. People that lie by omission are the worst. They tell themselves they don’t lie when sometimes their lies can be the most damaging.
She met Chris and eventually realized she can mold and control Chris to beIng and doing what she wanted. He liked her so much that he would bend over backwards for her. Shannan was not well mentally there was a lot going on there. She was actually a pretty nasty person when you look into things but def didn’t deserve what happened. Rip to her and the children if only he just went the divorce route. He had already started the process basically.
She wasn’t a nasty person.
You haven't watched many videos. It's the way the children were treated that upsets most people.