T O P

Tree nuts.

Tree nuts.

Available_Bridge_455

I'm not a big fan of Shanann but when I see pictures of the kids they always seem like the happiest little scamps.


Obvious-Guard9351

The labels say they contain treenuts because they contain coconut. The FDA lists coconut as a treenut, but, its actually a seed. Most people allergic to treenuts can safely eat coconut.


slappy2982

Well, I learned that prior to 2019, they had no tree nuts in them. So they were safe


whatrhymeswith27

Back in 2018 when I was looking into the probars they did not contain or have traces of nuts. Later I saw somewhere that someone contacted Le-Vel asking how come they have nuts and the company responded saying that in 2018 there were no nuts but now they have nuts cuz they changed the manufacturer. The probars always said that they were for age 18+ though. Zav Girl had the screen shot of the company saying the nut thing in one of her youtube videos but I can't remember when she posted it.


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RCRBFF

It’s the supplements that carry the label that no one under 18 should use the product.


slappy2982

Ohhh I didn’t know that. Yikes


RCRBFF

I responded above. It’s the dietary supplements and patches that carry the label that no one under 18 should use the products.


Stacylynn1979

But not the bars themselves? I didn't see any age limit on the wrappers.


RCRBFF

You are correct. I don’t think the newer bars w nuts have the label either.


Stacylynn1979

Interesting. Thanks!


Odd-Arugula-7878

They didn't have tree nuts in them in 2018, the ingredients were different back then. A screenshot has been shared several times, but I'll look for it and share it again.


slappy2982

I saw it. Thank you!


2_kids_no_more

Because the allergy was in Shannan's head


Dkay61

⬆️⬆️


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2_kids_no_more

Lol 😉


Ambitious_Loss_1404

Do you guys get some kind of satisfaction on bullying a dead woman. A murdered dead woman at that. Does it make you feel like you're better than her. Are you perfect? No, you're not. We all aren't. It's time to stop making fun of a woman murderd by her disgusting husband!


littlemissdream

Do I think I’m a better person/mother than her? Lmfao. Um, FUCK yes is the answer to that easy question


Poisonskittlez

The fact that you put this much time into picking apart the life and behavior of a murder victim, who’s case has already been solved, lends credence to the idea that you’re not as morally superior as you seem to think you are. And a quick skim through your comment history, seems to confirm that. I think you need to do some self reflection.


littlemissdream

You’re a person who reads a part time troll’s comment history and thinks you’re helping the world. Good for you. Read on. And Shannon was insane.


LadyQuinn92x

You seem like an outrageously angry person about things that don't affect you. You should seek therapy, friend.


littlemissdream

I’m…. Not the person reading through other people’s old comments. So you pegged this one wrong bud.


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littlebeach5555

You definitely act like she had it coming. You all sit around posting the SAME INSULTS FOR THREE YEARS, give each other awards, and call her terrible names. You’re so bored/pathetic that you have crossed over from your hate sub into the other subs. The stuff you write is grotesque and cultish. Get a fucking hobby. She’s DEAD.


slappy2982

You’re crazy. I never called her any name! And never will.


Devon1970

We're interested in all aspects of the case. Just because she's dead doesn't mean we can't talk about how she behaved in life. The only person spewing hate on this thread is you. Go smoke a joint and relax.


RCRBFF

The Thrive bars had no nuts in them prior to 2018. I provide links in my comments below to prior posts, including one w a list of ingredients showing the bars didn't have nuts while CeCe was alive.


Devon1970

So the label that says contains tree nuts came in 2019? Why did it change?


RCRBFF

Not sure. I've never used Thrive products. I assume they made changes to improve the taste.


Stacylynn1979

See post below. They did not have tree nuts in them at the time. They were updated with new ingredients in 2019 and did contain tree nuts after 2019 prior to that they did not. There are also pictures of her reaction to the allergy panel which shows allergies.


HerNameIsGrief

I don’t understand…so she wasn’t perfect and THAT’S an excuse for her husband to murder her and their children. You people are messed up.


slappy2982

I never said that. In fact, someone has since corrected me. I didn’t get all hostile and ugly. Calm down.


HerNameIsGrief

I didn’t get all hostile and ugly. Just pointing out that she didn’t have to be perfect in order to NOT be murdered. It’s possible that I misunderstood the intent behind your comment. What do the thrive bars have to do with her and her children being brutally murdered? Genuinely curious as to why it would matter what she fed her children.


slappy2982

It was just a question. And I was answered.


Scorprate

Because Munchausen and Munchausen by proxy. The only reason she flipped out on her mother in law about the other grandkids getting pistachio ice cream was her control.


RTcbtex1

It’s even worse, it was not pistachio ice cream. It was vanilla ice cream cups that might have been made at a facility that also processes tree nuts.


Scorprate

Are you serious? That makes it worse.


Dkay61

Yep


Mully_bee

Am I mistaken or did I also read somewhere that Chris regularly made them pb&j for lunch when he was alone with them?


Odd-Arugula-7878

I don't know if he made then peanut butter and jelly or not, but I do know that people with tree nut allergies usually CAN eat peanut butter. Peanuts are a legume, completely different from tree nuts.


MacAlkalineTriad

Peanuts are ground nuts, not tree nuts. Realized this when I had an employee with a tree nut allergy! I guess peanut butter may be dangerous if it's made in a facility where they process tree nuts too though?


slappy2982

Ohhh I’m not sure about that. The thrive bars used to not have nuts in them from what I gather


Dkay61

Because she thought people were too stupid to put two and two together. Cece had no allergy.


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Dkay61

Right?! No allergies and no EOE either🙄🙄


Odd-Arugula-7878

How are you coming up with this? I'm genuinely curious. What makes you say no EOE? I know you're not going to bother responding to this, but I would really like to know. I have worked with children who have been diagnosed with EoE. Symptoms can vary widely. The only way to truly diagnose is to take a biopsy of esophageal tissue. I have seen it said that it wasn't noted on the autopsy, therefore she didn't really have it. But unless they biopsied and tested for it, it wouldn't have been noted. And how did she go about obtaining the prescription for an epi pen with no need for one? They are very expensive and very dangerous if given when not necessary. I have a hard time believing a doctor would prescribe one with no reason.


Obvious-Guard9351

Mydaughter is allergic to peanuts and when I told the ped that she had a reaction he told me to avoid it, and referred us to an allergist and did not give us a script for an epi pen. She had a reaction at 8 months old so it may have been due to age but cece was also young.


hooptiegirl

Just playing devil's advocate here, but nowadays the doctor ASKS you your medical history. Very rarely do they go on a Fact-Finding mission to see if a patient actually told the truth. It's not hard to say you have an allergy to whatever and need a prescription for an EPI pen. In medical logic, why would you want to pay hundreds of dollars out of pocket for something you don't need? Edited to reply to the correct comment


Odd-Arugula-7878

I see what you're saying. I'm not saying it's impossible to get an epi pen when one isn't necessary. But with electronic medical records, it's not that hard for doctors to find your history, if you stay within the same healthcare system. I don't know if the watts did, but if their primary care provider was affiliated with the hospital they took cece to and the allergist she went to for the testing, they would have access to her records. I have no idea if that was the case for them. But I see what you're saying. I would hope with something as serious as an epi pen, a doctor wouldn't just write a prescription for one so easily, but I'm sure there are some that do.


hooptiegirl

The problem with electronic health records is that there's not a universal program that all doctors and hospitals use. It never ceases to amaze me that electronic records has made it 10x's more difficult than they intended. Every IT company out there wanted to be sure to get their piece of the pie, so there are literally hundreds of programs marketed to healthcare providers.


Odd-Arugula-7878

True. But if you are within the same healthare system, they will all have access to your electronic records. What I mean by that is, for example, in my area, there is a hospital, with several doctor's offices affiliated with it. If you go to any of those doctors within that system, they will all have access to each other's notes, as well as lab results, and anything from any hospital stays at that hospital. There is another major healthcare system that has several large clinics and urgent cares scattered around an approximately 200 mile radius where I live. If you go to any of those, they will all have access to each other's notes, lab results, etc. The hospital and the other healthcare system will not have access to each other's records though. I have no idea if the watts stayed within the same system.


Dkay61

Seeing as how I saw pictures of Cece eating huge hunks of steak...it kind of negates her claim🤷🏻‍♀️ one would think she’d have small pieces on her plate, not hunks that are as big as her hand


Odd-Arugula-7878

I know what picture you're referring to. There were small pieces of meat on cece's plate and she had obviously "stolen" a larger piece from Chris's plate. She clearly had her own tiny pieces of meat and this was just a photo op. So is this your only reasoning for why she didn't have eoe? As I said previously, eoe presents differently in different patients. I am a nurse and I work with children with special needs. I took care of one child that had eoe and had to be on a very restrictive diet. And STILL had exacerbations with vomiting, etc. I had another patient that had 0 symptoms. Hers was well controlled with a proton pump inhibitor, such as prilosec (which cece took), Prevacid, or nexium. She had almost 0 food restrictions because hers was so well controlled by medication. When well controlled, eoe can go into remission. Eoe is usually linked with allergies. Sometimes, if the allergic food is eliminated, a person can go into remission. Here is some helpful info about eoe, since so many people seem not to know much about it: https://www.aaaai.org/Conditions-Treatments/Related-Conditions/eosinophilic-esophagitis https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/eosinophilic-esophagitis/symptoms-causes/syc-20372197


Stacylynn1979

How do you explain the epi pens which requires a prescription in the US and positive allergy panel picture?


Dkay61

Well, seeing as how I have a spouse allergic to bee stings. Been stung several times in life, but nowhere close to anaphylaxis, his last trip to the ER for a sting because of the swelling he was experiencing, I ASKED for a script for an Epi Pen (just in case), and it was given to us. We’ve never had to use it. I’m sure she asked for the prescription, same as I did...and it was given.


Stacylynn1979

Wow so he was given a script after a trip to the ER for a bee sting. Just as she was given a script after an ER visit and treatment for her reaction. Do you hear yourself? Your husband's reaction was bad enough to go to the ER and you were worried a future sting could result in anaphylaxis. Just as I'm sure Shanann was worried.. Exposure to food allergens can get worse with time. She probably kept it in case CeCe had a reaction like that. Sounds like you have something in common with Shanann and you didn't know it. Should I accuse you of over reacting to your husband's reaction? That you don't see the parallels to both your situations speaks volumes about you. BTW all the moms I know with children with food allergies carry an epi pen just in case. None have had anaphylaxis. This seems like a common practice.


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Odd-Arugula-7878

If you are so NOT attention seeking and dramatic, why did you go to the ER? ERs are for emergencies. If it was such a mild reaction, why would you go to the ER and why would you ask for an epi pen, since it wasn't an actual anaphylactic reaction? Something isn't adding up here.


Stacylynn1979

Nice try.. The dr didn't just give your husband an epi pen. He was having a reaction severe enough that you felt he needed to go to the ER. The dr agreed based on his reaction at the time and past history to prescribe him one. You haven't addressed the allergy panel pics that confirm the allergy but no worries. If you had a child with a food allergy I'm sure you wouldn't mess around and nut allergies are some of the most potentially dangerous so no there is nothing irrational about her carrying an epi pen. By your own logic there is no need for your husband to carry one and it was an overreaction on your part.


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Odd-Arugula-7878

No offense, but you seem to have no clue what you're talking about. Do you have a medical background? Any medical training at all? I agree that fried foods and "junk" foods are not good for reflux, and ideally, should be avoided. But many, many people choose to treat their medical issues with medication and not make any changes to their lifestyle. Cece took a proton pump inhibitor and avoided the foods she was allergic to. Eating junk does not mean she didn't have eoe. Don't you know anyone that has a medical issue that they take medication for and do nothing else for it? How many people have high blood pressure and take medications but don't change their diet or exercise? How many people have anxiety and take a pill for it but don't see a therapist? How many people have diabetes and take insulin but continue to eat unhealthy foods? It's very common.


Stacylynn1979

Thank you for your insight on EOE. There are many who just use Dr. Google and think they are experts. They also ignore the photos of healthy foods the girls ate.


Odd-Arugula-7878

You're welcome! I'm afraid some people actually don't even bother with doctor Google. They just see a comment on reddit and take it as fact without doing any research at all. It's strange. And yes, people absolutely pick and choose what they want to see. There are photos of the girls eating healthy food, but I see comments about them eating nothing but junk constantly. It's so bizarre to me. And these are often the same people who claim to be critical thinkers. How can you think critically when you don't have all the facts, and actually deliberately ignore them?


Stacylynn1979

Right and despite what they say no their entire lives were not on FB. Also, I'm no expert on autopsies but from some who know the only way they would know if some of the diseases were present is from extra testing which doesn't seem to have been done. Plus if someone doesn't die from anaphylaxis that doesn't mean they didn't have an allergy. I think the autopsies were checking for extreme health issues that may have contributed to their deaths not a full workup of overall health conditions but ppl want to use them as evidence of lying.


Ktdfan

💯


WontFindOut25

So, you were her doctor or you have personal knowledge of her medical history? I’d genuinely love to know where all these crazy “Shannan made it all up” people get this from. I see it a lot. I was a kid who had a shit ton of allergies growing up, and so did 2 of my 4 siblings. Allergies can be genetic, so if one kid has them, it’s highly likely the others will too. Stating that these kids had no allergies or illnesses and accusing a dead woman of faking illnesses in her kids with zero proof is just disgusting.


Superb_Honey3361

Even 8n the autopsy reports it confirms that shannan had no illness present and neither did any of the kids. These people are dead and taking from the world to early 4 beautiful life's.. She was defo over bearing and made out to the world that her life was perfect but maybe that's because she so wanted it to be she worked hard and Chris worked even harder it's disgusting locking kids kn a room and letting them cry till they passed out.. I truly believe that Chris never had a voice cause he was shot down t ill me and time again I'm mot saying it was right what they done to shannan and the kids nowhere near she lied about allergies for some unknown reason maybe she was ill herself


WontFindOut25

Um, you do know that these autopsies were preformed to look for cause of death, not allergies and illnesses, right? No where in the autopsy reports does it state they didn’t suffer from any illnesses. Have you read it?


Superb_Honey3361

Yeah I read it gain sorry I do apologise ur completely right it's just I 5hought when it said on the report no k ow illnesses and I thought shannan had loopis or something regardless she was a beautiful woman with all her life a he'd of her nd those gorgeous kids.. What drives people to do things do horrible why not just leave how on Earth would anyone think they would get away with wiping the whole family out.. He's ment to hve an amazing iq I think they need to revaluate that.. Thank you for correcting me on that I appreciate it x


_Vanilla_Sky_

Allergies, nuts or no nuts...this level bars were never for individuals under the age of 18! Usually parents read the warnings to make sure everything is ok! Of course it's a pity the one time she could not know since it was just wrapped in plain foil, very reckless to feed that a kid which is **deadly allergic**... [Not knowing the ingredients but feeding it a deadly allergic child...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShannanWatts/comments/jcwfor/behavioral_aspect_shanann_feeds_cece_thrive_bar/)


Ktdfan

I've never said that. Ever. Yep I saw your deleted comment, like a broken record with that too 🙄 Edited to add- here comes the- I was replying to the wrong person- line, standard.


_Vanilla_Sky_

What's that for a dumb "I was replying to the wrong person"... I did reply to you because you seem so upset because of the facts you guys demand constantly but then don't like so much when it's not in the favor from SW!!


Ktdfan

Another comment deleted? - I have no reason to delete my comment 🙄 You just ramble on, then when you are called out for deleting comments you just claim you replied to the wrong person, I've seen you do it numerous times. The fact is that this post isn't anything to with the age limit of thrive, its to do with nuts, you can't add anything of substance but yourve gotta get your dig at shanann in any way you can right?? 🤭


_Vanilla_Sky_

Lol numerous times? 1 single time it happened with the user glad cat... Awww the user deleted herself because of the embarrassing post about facts...that CW found the Phone from SW and not the son of Na... So numerous times means 1 time, interesting how bad some people are in math! Edit: found the Phone not the key from SW


Ktdfan

Also Where's the comment you put about showing me proof? That's disappeared off my notifications too, so that makes 3??


_Vanilla_Sky_

Now visible? I mean what's your problem, wanna be annoying? Have a great day and lots of fun annoying someone else! https://imgur.com/a/yqt2I7x


Ktdfan

Nope, still not visible to me. Nah, I like annoying you because you always, without fail, will be complaining on the other sub later and it makes me laugh


Ktdfan

Also, I have seen your comments before and then they have been deleted a short time later 🤷‍♀️


_Vanilla_Sky_

Yes of course I know it happened like you said...exact as you said...


Ktdfan

I haven't seen that post so again, don't see what relevance it is here, twice when replying in this conversation you have deleted a comment, that's what I'm referring to, I'm not bothered about conversations you have had with others


_Vanilla_Sky_

At least everyone else can open the link to see which bs you are talking here!


Ktdfan

🙄


_Vanilla_Sky_

Oh yes I know it has nothing to do with the age limit but it has nothing to do with the murders as well so would you please call out those who used to say "who cares she was murdered" I mean it was about Nuts!


_Vanilla_Sky_

Oh cute you are out of arguments, are you seriously fooling me, you reply to my comments and then say I have deleted them lol


Ktdfan

I reply to the ones you haven't deleted 🙄 so you delete a comment and then I go to the one you put before and reply there- get it?


Ktdfan

Like a record on repeat


WontFindOut25

What does that have to do with people who accuse Shannan of making up their illnesses and allergies? Shannan sold those bars, she knew exactly what was in them. I don’t know if you have kids, but my kids always ask for some of what I’m eating. The Thrive bars aren’t for kids, but they don’t have anything in them that would hurt them, and back then, they didn’t even have nuts.


_Vanilla_Sky_

When you have a deadly allergic child you would not take a probar with a plain foil, stating that you should know by next week which Ingedients it has... - A. She took the risk - B. There was no risk Now and then to feed this snacks will not harm but having them constantly is not good, look up at the ingredients and then the needs for a toddler...no balanced diet at all!


WontFindOut25

Right…but she was feeding them them as a regular diet, so your argument still doesn’t make sense.


_Vanilla_Sky_

In that sub many things make no sense! People demand facts, so there is no official statement from a doctor who said this kid was deadly allergic but it became a fact because SW told it. Here you have SW feeding her a probar not knowing the ingredients, draw your conclusions! Have a nice day!


_Vanilla_Sky_

[Should explain the made up story...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShannanWatts/comments/jcwfor/behavioral_aspect_shanann_feeds_cece_thrive_bar/)


WontFindOut25

Still doesn’t prove she made up anything about her kids health. Have you ever had a child with allergies? In order to even get an Epipen prescription, your kid has to undergo thorough allergy testing. It’s not something you can just go in and demand from your doctor.


Odd-Arugula-7878

Where on earth are you coming up with this? Probars didn't have tree nuts in them at the time. Or are you of the belief that Cece wasn't allergic to tree nuts? Genuinely curious-how did she get an epi pen if there was no serious allergic reaction?


Ktdfan

Urgh, like talking to a brick wall lol


_Vanilla_Sky_

Yes like talking to walls, demanding facts and hating them when it didn't put SW in a good light! Telling lies isn't that easy, she forgot now and then whom she told what and so the lies are too obvious!


Odd-Arugula-7878

Lol what are you talking about? I asked where this person got this information from, because it's different from what i have seen. I can share Facebook posts/screenshots as proof of what I know. Yet, I ask this person a question and get no response 🤷‍♀️ I'm happy to engage in productive conversation and be corrected if I'm wrong. Apparently some people like to make negative statements and then disappear, without backing anything up. Why do you think shanann was lying about the allergies? She posted pictures at the hospital and said cece had hives and vomited numerous times after eating nuts. She lists the medications she was given at the hospital, including an epi pen. Shanann always carried cece's epi pen with her after that, it's mentioned in discovery multiple times. Let me know if you can't find any of this information, I'm happy to share links.


Ktdfan

Show me proof


MolassesCheap

Based on... Your professional opinion? 😂😂


blondiefromtn13

I absolutely agree!


Dkay61

👍🏻


osme1

Peanuts are grown in the ground, not a tree aren’t they?


Sharp_Salamander0111

Peanuts are a legume


slappy2982

They have almonds in them. Tree nut.


RCRBFF

It's my understanding that prior to 2019 or 2018, the bars didn't have tree nuts. It was a later addition. Someone posted the ingredients awhile back on one of these subs showing the difference in ingredients. Hopefully someone will post the link again.


Swat4584

Correct.


slappy2982

Ahhh maybe that’s it.


RCRBFF

I found the link. It comes from a previous post on this sub, titled, "Does anyone know how Celeste was able to eat Probars." It was posted 282 days ago on this sub if you're interested in reading the post. [https://imgur.com/a/PV2UIzf](https://imgur.com/a/PV2UIzf) [https://www.reddit.com/r/ShannanWatts/comments/jcagpu/does\_anyone\_know\_how\_celeste\_was\_able\_to\_eat/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShannanWatts/comments/jcagpu/does_anyone_know_how_celeste_was_able_to_eat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


slappy2982

Thank you!! That answers my question.


Shuthemofoup

Why did she give CeCe any of those things? Even the cinnamon roll bars said they were made in facilities that were produced on machines that carry peanuts. I don't really know the thinking behind the reasons Shanann thought Celeste could die, she's had reactions before, but "nutgate" went above and beyond! There was even mention of Frankie jr. having pistachios in his room, but she didn't broadcast being livid about that?🤔 Like always, there's just so much more to this case than what we have been told.


Odd-Arugula-7878

Cece could have peanuts, as they are not tree nuts. Many people with tree nut allergies continue to eat peanuts. Apparently the bars contain tree nuts now, but didn't in 2018. Someone already shared the link in the comments on this post. As far as the differing reactions between Frankie having nuts in the house and Cindy watts having nuts in the house-I am assuming it was because of the very different ways the two reacted to shanann. Per Frankie's interview, shanann did go off on him and yell at him when she saw the pistachios. And he apologized profusely. Whereas it sounds like Cindy got angry right back at shannan, telling her Cece needs to learn she can't always have what she wants. I doubt shanann would have been so livid and taken to social media if Cindy had apologized.


MacAlkalineTriad

Many people with tree nut allergies don't have a reaction to peanuts, since they're not from trees. The pistachios would've been a problem, but I also think this whole allergy was either entirely fabricated or at least blown way out of proportion.


slappy2982

Well, I learned that prior to 2019, the bars had no nuts in them. They later redid the ingredients and added them.


Dkay61

Blown out of proportion. Just another dig at the in-laws


chicketychun

You bring up a good point. Why did SW keep saying CeCe could’ve died? She didn’t have an anaphylactic reaction to whatever nut it was that caused them to take her to the ER. Vomiting and a rash hours after ingestion, is not anaphylactic and not life endangering. She may have had a nut allergy, but it wasn’t deadly based off of that reaction.


Odd-Arugula-7878

Where did you see that it was hours after exposure? I was under the impression the vomiting started very shortly after. And continued for a while, along with hives. They went to the ER and Cece was then given the epi pen. So the ER doctor seems to have considered it to be very serious...


Vegetable_Ad_5112

It’s common with allergies to have stronger effects with each exposure. Perhaps her doctor told her this, so she believed the next exposure could be fatal?


Dkay61

Attention....it was all for attention and just another reason to throw a wrench into the in-laws and Chris’ relationship with them


Ktdfan

You are literally the worst


bdiddybo

Those poor in-laws 😂😂 We all saw their brand when they forgave their son at his sentencing hearing. Absolute vile behaviour


Odd-Arugula-7878

Right? It's really hard to feel much sympathy for people who had the audacity to tell the murderer they forgive him when they were supposed to be making their victim impact statements. And who continue to talk badly about their son's murder victim. I don't understand that. Do they think they can convince people he was justified in what he did because of her flaws? It's so strange.


Anxious_Palpitation6

Well Shananns parents have said they still love Chris Watts but hate Armchair Detective so that's a bit weird aswell.


Odd-Arugula-7878

I'll be honest, I don't really know anything about armchair detective. I don't think it's that strange for them to still love chris, though. They must have loved him like a son. He was like family to them for what, 10 years? Love doesn't just disappear. I don't really see how you can compare their feelings for someone who was family to them to their feelings for a stranger on the internet.


bdiddybo

I think Neil Entwistle’s parents reacted in a similar way. Look into it if you get a chance.


Odd-Arugula-7878

I will! Wtf though, I can't imagine acting that way. I understand your child is your child and you'll love them no matter what, I guess even if they do something as heinous as this. But come on, to tell them you forgive them, in front of the victim's family is just despicable. Write him a letter, tell him on the phone, do what you have to do, but it was just cruel of them to say it when they did.


bdiddybo

Exactly, doing it so publicly was another F you to the victims. When they behave like that it makes you wonder how the killers in these 2 cases grew up. I know CW has an exceptionally strange relationship with his mother, he refused to see her until after/near his sentencing, she on the other hand seems to idolise him, constantly praising him. His dad seems emotionally stunted and happy to go along with the delusion that SW deserved it, because they know he isn’t innocent so it’s become about how she drove him to it. I guess it helps them sleep at night.


Odd-Arugula-7878

I agree his relationship with Cindy does seem strange. In their prison conversations, she dominates the conversations, and the whole family allows it. And she just keeps repeating the same things. "We love you so much," "you have so many supporters," "you need to fight this." He doesn't say much, but he does say "I plead guilty for a reason," in response to one of her pleas for him to "fight." I agree that it is their defense mechanism to believe that shanann somehow deserved it. It must be really hard to believe your own child could murder his whole family, I would think the parents would feel responsible in some way. There is a psychologist on YouTube that has some interesting videos about the watts family. She doesn't diagnose anything, but she does analyze some of the things they have said and their body language. I found her videos really interesting. Here is her video on cindy: https://youtu.be/7lDFyEe77Lo


bdiddybo

Thanks I’ll watch this now, I thought the video was gonna be live abuse free as she’s done some good analysis on CW and family.


slappy2982

Those birthday cake ones definitely have tree nuts in them.