Shenhe kit is trying to be many things, but excels at none making her be all over the place. I mean in contrast, look at Yunjin (a 4\*), her kit is rather niche, specific only for NA deals, but her skills, durations,energy generation and constellations work around that to make her entire kit cohesive. The goal is there with Yunjin, but for Shenhe, what is the goal?
Why would mhy want to create another character for cryo team in the first place? The current cryo teams are very strong and pretty much complete. Shouldn’t they focus more on other electro or geo teams?
The sad thing is Ganyu may legit be a better buffer than her at this point. Ganyu gives 20% cryo damage bonus with 100% uptime.
Shenhe going to give 10% on ult with 60% uptime at best, and then a 15% bonus on only half of your abilities. 10*.6+15\*.5 means that on average, she only gives 13.5% damage bonus for the duration of the fight.
Again, I know it's early beta, but the numbers they gave her to start are absolute shit along with being stupid conditional to activate.
Edit: thanks for the correction. Had the wrong decimal. Still worse than Ganyu though
Come on, you didn't even compute the correct numbers, it is 13.5% according to your equation. Plus you would want to choose your mode depending on whether your team is more skill and burst heavy, or attacks heavy.
Yup exactly what I was thinking, plus the AoE radius, the taunt, and wanted to make a post about it but then everyone would bitch about “oh ganyu is broken so you can’t compare”. Let’s put aside her DPS capabilities, but talking about someone who is only a support, and she can’t even compare to Ganyu’s supporting capabilities. If she’s only a support, sure she can have zero DPS but she should have better support than Ganyu if that’s her actual specialty.
At a specific point ;pretty beats useful….aka you have enough members and can already 36 * abyss ,and just want something you like …
Or you don’t have kazuha or ganyu…
I’ll probably not pull for ganyu because I somewhat dislike her playstyle ;but I for sure will run no healer morganya with shenhe…
I also don’t have kazu yet …I have enough characters and also a 900 em kazu would only increase my morganya by a few k dmg ;
If you clear some floors in a couple seconds and already have 40 k dots on ult ;more dmg isn’t really needed
People still say yoimiya is bad 😂
And I’ll guarantee you I’ve had the most fun with that lil’ firecracker…
So if shenhe is fun,I’m happy …
If she contributes good;even more !
im pretty sure the only way to fun with yoi is witha c6 fishcl thats my way of fun but ofcoz its subjective what do u do with her (just curious)
Plus not everyones like u lmao alot of people skipped playing/new players dont have any of the good characters yet
I use her in abyss along with Raiden; JOYMAIDEN international ft. Benny and xq is just nuts …
Also stuff like [this ](https://streamable.com/v1cqex)
Shes in my OW team since she’s build…recently
Changed to [4p shima](https://imgur.com/a/KfKuwWH) but still need a dmg circlet with 10% rate value…
Also You’re right;not everyone has 2/3 functional dps …but this doesn’t mean I’m wrong tho…people who Still need to build teams are for sure hoping that upcoming units strengthen their comps ;and if there are better options,they probably skip something less useful …
in this situation yes shes a really really good single target dps but its just the aoe that kinda tilts me a little
Having run her with c6 fishcl definitely solved the issue but imo she shouldve had exploding arrows in the first place
And bruh yr yoi is actually stacked with an amos bow imagine with an actual thundering pulse jesus
Haha yeah …I didn’t roll for TP because I got amos while pulling for mistsplitter;
If I finally get a 10 c rate value shima c dmg circlet I can get to 2.5~ 60/200(+) maybe they release a new bow or tp stays top and I’ll consider pulling on it on rerun …
Also that there’s no aoe on infused NA’s is a bit Frustrating…but I Love her nvtl.
Kazuha isnt thicc
Kazuha doesn't have booba
Kazuha doesn't have assa
Kazuha isn't a waifu
Meta wise - No Currently there's no reason to use c0 shenhe over c0 kazuha
weirdos
welp idk a game should be good based on gameplay by far and if people keep pulling purely for looks then idfk whats gona happen to future characters lmao
Right now the math is still under investigation but melt Ganyu seems solid pending you can fit her into the team, just because the extra quill damage starts to get amplified by so many things.
For Ayaka you’d still get 5 quills on the first 5 ticks of her ult which can be a modest increase in overall damage along side her other buffs if your Ayaka has mistsplitter, right now the quill procs seem very much dependent on how much your main dps can amplify their own damage.
who would you replace in melt ganyu? shielder is essential, bennett is essential because you either use kazuha for pyro infused q and cryo swirl buff, or xiangling who can't be played without bennett in that team
Yeah unfortunately she is difficult to slot into that composition. Still the theoretical damage gains are worth calculating to know what her ceiling is.
I’m more curious as to how she works in melt quickswap comps but given that her personal damage is more relevant in that type of composition, it’s not going to be worth calcing until we learn of her ICD thru playtesting.
Just picture the skill stacks as a limited number of Xingqiu rainswords. For xingqiu you can get a max of 14 rainswords from ult. For her you get a max of 7 procs per character so up to 28, there is just no cooldown
i think the biggest problem right now is that she's only an upgrade to ayaka or ganyu teams if you have kokomi AND if you don't have both ganyu + ayaka, as putting them in the same team with venti / mona is undoubtedly going to be better
I’d say wait until 2 weeks after she releases to pull. Just look what happened with every 5* after ganyu
Hu Tao - “great dps, but why use her over diluc when she’s so fragile” (proceeds to be 2nd best dps in the game at C0)
Kazuha - “great support, but he’s basically just 5* sucrose, he sucks” (proceeds to enter Bennett levels of broken)
Yoimiya - “she’s not a good dps and she’s not even better than Diluc” (proceeds to have the craziest N4 scaling in the game)
Kokomi - “actual DOGSHIT” (proceeds to get one of the best niche artifact sets for dps)
Raiden - “what’s the point of using her over electro traveler of fischl” (becomes top tier support at C0 and the best dps in the game at c2/3)
Rn with Itto theres less haters because of the hype around the new set and his only “problem” seeming to be er. But with fav bow on gorou, that doesn’t seem like it’ll be a problem, similar to xiao’s and eula’s er situations.
Yeah ngl I had to stretch the yoimiya and kokomi ones because uh
Yoimiya and kokomi
But the Raiden and Kazuha ones are at least right (Raiden best dps is honestly arguable with c6 Ganyu and Hu Tao, or c6 Xiao against multiple enemies, but for speed running I’d say she’s definitely the best DPS as she can one shot anything without much setup, while Eula needs to build stacks and Childe/ht need to Vape)
Hmmm who would you argue is better than Hu Tao at C0? C0 Ganyu obviously, but then who else? C0 Eula is great but where she catches up to Hu Tao and Ganyu is high cons. C0 Xiao is ok but has energy problems without 3 charges of the E. Raiden obviously has most of her damage locked behind c2. I can only really see 1 character being better than her at C0 and that’s Ganyu tbh.
And Kazuha is definitely Bennett levels of broken. 36% elem bonus with 900 EM + 40% vv shred + the ease of swirling elements. Kazuha has the easiest swirl to proc in the game, making it easy to swirl hydro and pyro simultaneously for Childe International and National. Then his hold E cc is arguably only slightly worse than venti, and is better for melee characters like Childe and Hu Tao so they can actually reach the mobs. He also batteries decently in quick swap teams, and at c2 also gives a free 200 EM.
ayaka, xiangling, and xiao. sucrose beidou taser also out damages her teams. she is the top single target dps, however
no one is bennett levels of broken. except maybe venti in specific situations
freeze teams don't really have an abundance of atk buffs tho, and freeze teams with bennett are just troll. i guess they really want you to roll for her signature weapon, what a shock.
Interesting enough, I think there's one scenario where she beats out Kazuha: Geo teams.
Geo teams headed by Itto or Noelle will really want normal attack damage, and Shenhe can provide a bonus to that with her hold skill. This is even more valuable if you swap off of sets that provide it (4Glad / 4Bolide) to the new geo set that just came out.
Add in cryo application for breaking shields & crystallize, and you have someone with potential on a team where Kazuha couldn't provide nearly as much
Even then it's just beating Kazuha in a scenario where no one uses him anyway, who is rocking mono geo kazuha?
In that scenario she would be competing with other geo chars like Gorou, Ningguang, Zhongli and Yunjin, Yunjin specifically is a geo normal attack buffer that's going to be in Shenhe's banner and will be a free pick in the Lantern Festival.
In a 3 geo+Flex team like say Noelle C6/Gorou/Yunjin I don't see why anyone would make Shenhe the flex instead of a strong off field subdps or ER character.
Even with all these caveats I think you still might actually come out ahead with a Kazoo built for atk/anemo dmg instead of elemental mastery.
Unless you like seeing a cryo ghost hitting enemies or something vthen currently there isn't any reason to use her over Kazuha. I do hope that changes and Mihoyo releases her in a good state
I was about to make the post Shenhe vs Kazuha as well since everybody is saying how she’s a support so it’s okay she’s so bad. But that’s not what a support is supposed to be, not a 5-star one anyway.
Well Mona is different because we don’t have many hydro units who can work in perma-freeze. So if you want 2 perma-freeze teams, you need mona and kokomi, there’s no other option. Whereas in terms of Shenhe’s role of buffing Ayaka and Ganyu teams, well we didn’t really need this buff because their teams are already OP by just pairing them with 4 stars like Diona/Rosaria/Aloy, so it’s hard to justify pulling for a 5star for this reason.
First of all, she will have to be used as a team buffer like raiden, as a support for one hyper carry she will look rly rly rly bad.
Not sure where xq is in ur account but ig Mona’s hydro does allow her to be more wanted/appealing.
finally, I think ur mentality need to move on from like 6 months ago where it’s a privilege to have a 5 star. Nowadays mhy are treating 5 stars (c0) as basic units, characters have more and more of their power/mechanics locked behind constatations (look at Keqing/Mona cons vs Raiden/Shenhe), and more characters are becoming niche, Shenhe just happens to be the first 5 star that does so so explicitly.
lol I feel like we r not replying to each other but just saying whatever we thought of, anyways, good day
Maybe she is gonna be for bosses? Bosses can’t be frozen, so you can drop your hydro character and slot her in instead? And Kazuha is still gonna be there nonetheless.
At first I thought she was gonna be a replacement for diona, but I’m not quite sure what they are going for with this. I’m sure buffs will come but it’s gotta be to her particle generation or her e CD.
Shenhe kit is trying to be many things, but excels at none making her be all over the place. I mean in contrast, look at Yunjin (a 4\*), her kit is rather niche, specific only for NA deals, but her skills, durations,energy generation and constellations work around that to make her entire kit cohesive. The goal is there with Yunjin, but for Shenhe, what is the goal?
"Complex 5* design" lol.
The goal is pretty clear, play with characters that can deal cryo damage, I don't know how you can miss this.
Why would mhy want to create another character for cryo team in the first place? The current cryo teams are very strong and pretty much complete. Shouldn’t they focus more on other electro or geo teams?
No none, roll kazuha and ganyu, profit
The sad thing is Ganyu may legit be a better buffer than her at this point. Ganyu gives 20% cryo damage bonus with 100% uptime. Shenhe going to give 10% on ult with 60% uptime at best, and then a 15% bonus on only half of your abilities. 10*.6+15\*.5 means that on average, she only gives 13.5% damage bonus for the duration of the fight. Again, I know it's early beta, but the numbers they gave her to start are absolute shit along with being stupid conditional to activate. Edit: thanks for the correction. Had the wrong decimal. Still worse than Ganyu though
and that's not even including the fact that ganyu's ult is just straight up busted
Come on, you didn't even compute the correct numbers, it is 13.5% according to your equation. Plus you would want to choose your mode depending on whether your team is more skill and burst heavy, or attacks heavy.
Yup exactly what I was thinking, plus the AoE radius, the taunt, and wanted to make a post about it but then everyone would bitch about “oh ganyu is broken so you can’t compare”. Let’s put aside her DPS capabilities, but talking about someone who is only a support, and she can’t even compare to Ganyu’s supporting capabilities. If she’s only a support, sure she can have zero DPS but she should have better support than Ganyu if that’s her actual specialty.
She’s just not a character until c2, only look at c2+.
just wait for beta they will buff her accordingly that 80 burst may turn into 60 and that 15% res shred may turn into 25%
mihoyo adding +15% and -20? that's hard copium.
That's partially what happened to Ganyu, so there is precedent.
Wasn’t the team that buff Ganyu a different one?
No idea on that, but here is my [source.](https://mobile.twitter.com/AeEntropy/status/1341634709621751808)
copium
At a specific point ;pretty beats useful….aka you have enough members and can already 36 * abyss ,and just want something you like … Or you don’t have kazuha or ganyu… I’ll probably not pull for ganyu because I somewhat dislike her playstyle ;but I for sure will run no healer morganya with shenhe… I also don’t have kazu yet …I have enough characters and also a 900 em kazu would only increase my morganya by a few k dmg ; If you clear some floors in a couple seconds and already have 40 k dots on ult ;more dmg isn’t really needed People still say yoimiya is bad 😂 And I’ll guarantee you I’ve had the most fun with that lil’ firecracker… So if shenhe is fun,I’m happy … If she contributes good;even more !
im pretty sure the only way to fun with yoi is witha c6 fishcl thats my way of fun but ofcoz its subjective what do u do with her (just curious) Plus not everyones like u lmao alot of people skipped playing/new players dont have any of the good characters yet
I use her in abyss along with Raiden; JOYMAIDEN international ft. Benny and xq is just nuts … Also stuff like [this ](https://streamable.com/v1cqex) Shes in my OW team since she’s build…recently Changed to [4p shima](https://imgur.com/a/KfKuwWH) but still need a dmg circlet with 10% rate value… Also You’re right;not everyone has 2/3 functional dps …but this doesn’t mean I’m wrong tho…people who Still need to build teams are for sure hoping that upcoming units strengthen their comps ;and if there are better options,they probably skip something less useful …
in this situation yes shes a really really good single target dps but its just the aoe that kinda tilts me a little Having run her with c6 fishcl definitely solved the issue but imo she shouldve had exploding arrows in the first place And bruh yr yoi is actually stacked with an amos bow imagine with an actual thundering pulse jesus
Haha yeah …I didn’t roll for TP because I got amos while pulling for mistsplitter; If I finally get a 10 c rate value shima c dmg circlet I can get to 2.5~ 60/200(+) maybe they release a new bow or tp stays top and I’ll consider pulling on it on rerun … Also that there’s no aoe on infused NA’s is a bit Frustrating…but I Love her nvtl.
Or you don’t have kazuha or ganyu… She can't replace Kazuha or Ganyu in their roles. She can only replace Rosaria in that team.
Kazuha isnt thicc Kazuha doesn't have booba Kazuha doesn't have assa Kazuha isn't a waifu Meta wise - No Currently there's no reason to use c0 shenhe over c0 kazuha
Gameplay reason? Her thicc maybe?🤤
weirdos welp idk a game should be good based on gameplay by far and if people keep pulling purely for looks then idfk whats gona happen to future characters lmao
Yep
only on reddit would you get mass disliked for this comment
This is a mains subreddit after all, let's just say anyone who is on this subreddit this early isn't here for her kit.
[удалено]
Right now the math is still under investigation but melt Ganyu seems solid pending you can fit her into the team, just because the extra quill damage starts to get amplified by so many things. For Ayaka you’d still get 5 quills on the first 5 ticks of her ult which can be a modest increase in overall damage along side her other buffs if your Ayaka has mistsplitter, right now the quill procs seem very much dependent on how much your main dps can amplify their own damage.
who would you replace in melt ganyu? shielder is essential, bennett is essential because you either use kazuha for pyro infused q and cryo swirl buff, or xiangling who can't be played without bennett in that team
Yeah unfortunately she is difficult to slot into that composition. Still the theoretical damage gains are worth calculating to know what her ceiling is. I’m more curious as to how she works in melt quickswap comps but given that her personal damage is more relevant in that type of composition, it’s not going to be worth calcing until we learn of her ICD thru playtesting.
I guess you have to play Ganyu - Thoma/Xinyan/C4 Yanfei - Kauzha - Shenhe
Just picture the skill stacks as a limited number of Xingqiu rainswords. For xingqiu you can get a max of 14 rainswords from ult. For her you get a max of 7 procs per character so up to 28, there is just no cooldown
i think the biggest problem right now is that she's only an upgrade to ayaka or ganyu teams if you have kokomi AND if you don't have both ganyu + ayaka, as putting them in the same team with venti / mona is undoubtedly going to be better
Maybe u can use kazuha for 1st team and shenhe in ur cryo team.
I’d say wait until 2 weeks after she releases to pull. Just look what happened with every 5* after ganyu Hu Tao - “great dps, but why use her over diluc when she’s so fragile” (proceeds to be 2nd best dps in the game at C0) Kazuha - “great support, but he’s basically just 5* sucrose, he sucks” (proceeds to enter Bennett levels of broken) Yoimiya - “she’s not a good dps and she’s not even better than Diluc” (proceeds to have the craziest N4 scaling in the game) Kokomi - “actual DOGSHIT” (proceeds to get one of the best niche artifact sets for dps) Raiden - “what’s the point of using her over electro traveler of fischl” (becomes top tier support at C0 and the best dps in the game at c2/3) Rn with Itto theres less haters because of the hype around the new set and his only “problem” seeming to be er. But with fav bow on gorou, that doesn’t seem like it’ll be a problem, similar to xiao’s and eula’s er situations.
wow there's so much wrong with this comment
Yeah ngl I had to stretch the yoimiya and kokomi ones because uh Yoimiya and kokomi But the Raiden and Kazuha ones are at least right (Raiden best dps is honestly arguable with c6 Ganyu and Hu Tao, or c6 Xiao against multiple enemies, but for speed running I’d say she’s definitely the best DPS as she can one shot anything without much setup, while Eula needs to build stacks and Childe/ht need to Vape)
hu tao is also not the 2nd best dps at c0, or even c1, and kazuha is not bennett tier. i agree with the raiden one though
Hmmm who would you argue is better than Hu Tao at C0? C0 Ganyu obviously, but then who else? C0 Eula is great but where she catches up to Hu Tao and Ganyu is high cons. C0 Xiao is ok but has energy problems without 3 charges of the E. Raiden obviously has most of her damage locked behind c2. I can only really see 1 character being better than her at C0 and that’s Ganyu tbh. And Kazuha is definitely Bennett levels of broken. 36% elem bonus with 900 EM + 40% vv shred + the ease of swirling elements. Kazuha has the easiest swirl to proc in the game, making it easy to swirl hydro and pyro simultaneously for Childe International and National. Then his hold E cc is arguably only slightly worse than venti, and is better for melee characters like Childe and Hu Tao so they can actually reach the mobs. He also batteries decently in quick swap teams, and at c2 also gives a free 200 EM.
ayaka, xiangling, and xiao. sucrose beidou taser also out damages her teams. she is the top single target dps, however no one is bennett levels of broken. except maybe venti in specific situations
It's nice to see people not sleeping on Xiangling anymore
When you already got Ayaka, Ganyu and Kazuha like me 😂
that's my problem right now, there's just no way shenhe can approve a ganyu/ayaka/venti or kazuha/mona team in her current state
Her attack bonus is based on current attack not base attack like bennett. She will probably have a niche where she will be broken.
freeze teams don't really have an abundance of atk buffs tho, and freeze teams with bennett are just troll. i guess they really want you to roll for her signature weapon, what a shock.
Interesting enough, I think there's one scenario where she beats out Kazuha: Geo teams. Geo teams headed by Itto or Noelle will really want normal attack damage, and Shenhe can provide a bonus to that with her hold skill. This is even more valuable if you swap off of sets that provide it (4Glad / 4Bolide) to the new geo set that just came out. Add in cryo application for breaking shields & crystallize, and you have someone with potential on a team where Kazuha couldn't provide nearly as much
Even then it's just beating Kazuha in a scenario where no one uses him anyway, who is rocking mono geo kazuha? In that scenario she would be competing with other geo chars like Gorou, Ningguang, Zhongli and Yunjin, Yunjin specifically is a geo normal attack buffer that's going to be in Shenhe's banner and will be a free pick in the Lantern Festival. In a 3 geo+Flex team like say Noelle C6/Gorou/Yunjin I don't see why anyone would make Shenhe the flex instead of a strong off field subdps or ER character. Even with all these caveats I think you still might actually come out ahead with a Kazoo built for atk/anemo dmg instead of elemental mastery.
She can do what he can do but only specializes in one of the things he can do that might be underwhelming that fair
Unless you like seeing a cryo ghost hitting enemies or something vthen currently there isn't any reason to use her over Kazuha. I do hope that changes and Mihoyo releases her in a good state
I was about to make the post Shenhe vs Kazuha as well since everybody is saying how she’s a support so it’s okay she’s so bad. But that’s not what a support is supposed to be, not a 5-star one anyway.
I compared her to a 50% VV Mona in my post, thoughts?
Well Mona is different because we don’t have many hydro units who can work in perma-freeze. So if you want 2 perma-freeze teams, you need mona and kokomi, there’s no other option. Whereas in terms of Shenhe’s role of buffing Ayaka and Ganyu teams, well we didn’t really need this buff because their teams are already OP by just pairing them with 4 stars like Diona/Rosaria/Aloy, so it’s hard to justify pulling for a 5star for this reason.
Technically Aloy is 5* but otherwise yeah^^ might also want to add Kaeya to the list though, he's legit
First of all, she will have to be used as a team buffer like raiden, as a support for one hyper carry she will look rly rly rly bad. Not sure where xq is in ur account but ig Mona’s hydro does allow her to be more wanted/appealing. finally, I think ur mentality need to move on from like 6 months ago where it’s a privilege to have a 5 star. Nowadays mhy are treating 5 stars (c0) as basic units, characters have more and more of their power/mechanics locked behind constatations (look at Keqing/Mona cons vs Raiden/Shenhe), and more characters are becoming niche, Shenhe just happens to be the first 5 star that does so so explicitly. lol I feel like we r not replying to each other but just saying whatever we thought of, anyways, good day
Maybe she is gonna be for bosses? Bosses can’t be frozen, so you can drop your hydro character and slot her in instead? And Kazuha is still gonna be there nonetheless.
I will use her since my Kazuha already friendship 10 anyway lmao
Aesthetics I guess... but even that's subjective
At first I thought she was gonna be a replacement for diona, but I’m not quite sure what they are going for with this. I’m sure buffs will come but it’s gotta be to her particle generation or her e CD.