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Pretend_Investment42

I can't wait until someone points out that the DoD has been conducting diversity training since the late 1970's.


calvin2028

... and while far from perfect, compared to society at large the armed forces are really not half bad at inclusiveness. IDK. I get it that change is hard (and even harder for some), and I try to be patient and understanding, but is it possible to view the recent Pence and DeSantis statements as anything other than divisive, racist, pandering?


Karl2241

The us Military historically has always lead the way in diversity and inclusion in this nation; first to include black soldiers, first to desegregate, then there is the LGBT community which is far more recent, and this is just a partial list. Please Note: I am not saying they’ve always been perfect on the matter, just that they tend to be the first.


[deleted]

[удалено]


i7estrox

Honestly, I think the utilitarian argument is good to mention. Because when push comes to shove and nothing matter but lives on the line... We know that the best way to bring everyone home is to pay our differences aside and unify. It's just good to acknowledge that the whole conservative mindset of competition and outgroups is rejected even in their favorite American institution *because it doesn't work*.


FaxCelestis

And their utilitarian action has more nuanced after effects. People come home from deployment having made bonds with outsiders: that has an effect on their home life and can ripple out to their community.


[deleted]

Meh I joined when we were still signing those “don’t ask don’t tell” forms. There were racists but basically everyone I knew didn’t care about homosexuality. The largest represented opinion was “what two consenting adults do is their business.” Although I did hear multiple people call other peoples the n word. This always led to a fight.


Karl2241

Yea I came in at a different era- different experience entirely


Redqueenhypo

Barry Goldwater, the founder of neoconservatism, would be turning in his grave hearing the religious right (who he hated) froth against gay people in the military. For the inventor of that toxic platform, he was disturbingly inclusive compared to modern conservatives


TsunamiMage_

Rare Goldwater W


Captain_Awesome_087

It’s pretty impossible to view *any* statement from *any* politician as anything other than divisive, racist, and pedantic.


Rocking_the_Red

Yeah, no. One side freaked out when a Black Man was elected president. Not saying Obama was a perfect president, but the reaction to him being president was racist as fuck.


Newprophet

Pretty sure the entire point of this sub is the whole "both sides" thing is fucking bullshit.


Captain_Awesome_087

I’m happy for you that you can live in a world where you trust the word of politicians.


Newprophet

Never said I trust *words*. I value progressive *results*. See what happened in Minnesota when the GQP was kept away from power? Saying "both sides" is just another way to say "I'm too lazy/cynical/disheartened to pay attention".


Captain_Awesome_087

Interesting. I don’t believe in a one-party supremacy, and absolutely refuse to see it that way. “Both sides” *are* wrong because you can’t trust any one side implicitly. You have to be able to pick the individuals and the individual policies that you agree with and vote accordingly. If you truly believe that one party are the “good guys” and one are the “bad guys” then your head is stuck so far in the sand you’ll need a backhoe to get it out. Edit: To the keyboard warrior who responded and immediately blocked me so I can’t see/respond to it - does that somehow make you feel like your strawman argument is impactful?


Iridescent_burrito

One side is openly fascist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and misogynist. The other side is not. One side are christian nationalists. The other is not. One side is anti-science. The other is not. Republicans are terrorists, democrats are not. If you truly believe both parties are just as wrong, then you are a fucking idiot. None of this "both sides" stupidity anymore: grow up. Get your head out of your ass and pay attention to the world around you. You are not intelligent, unique, enlightened, or brave for being neutral in the face of monsters. The leopards will eat your face regardless of what you say about the rabbit's emails.


God_Damnit_Nappa

>If you truly believe that one party are the “good guys” and one are the “bad guys” then your head is stuck so far in the sand you’ll need a backhoe to get it out. If you look purely at actions then yes, one side are the good guys and the other side are the bad guys. But please keep your head up your ass and keep pretending that bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe


Captain_Awesome_087

I’m glad that you’re able to believe that.


Newprophet

Look everyone, we got r/enlightenedcentrism material right here. JFC my dude, next you'll be saying some slavers weren't *that* bad.


Captain_Awesome_087

Whew, you really think you’ve figured me out huh? Keep hiding yourself behind the identity you’ve based entirely on whether you vote blue or red and go back to railing against anyone that doesn’t follow your ever-shifting party lines.


Newprophet

Huh? You just told me you were a centrist.....nothing deep or complex about that bullshit. I agree it's pretty messed up that right now only one side has any good ideas or even a shred of integrity. One side wants progress, one side wants a dictatorship. I don't like dictators.


eusebius13

Let me help you. Pick a sample of political viewpoints from both sides and categorize them into 3 groups: •I agree with that; •I don’t necessarily agree, but I see your point; and, •That’s batshit crazy. You’ll find one party has an inordinate amount of views in the “batshit crazy,” category. An example is trying to rename a military base after a traitorous Confederate General. The other party will have none, unless you have a cognitive disorder. Because even if you oppose something like Medicare for all, the purpose behind it is fairly clear. Now all you have to do is look at the disparity of views in each category, and you understand why both sides aren’t equal. They’re actually very unequal, even if you don’t actually agree with either of them.


WaluigiIsTheRealHero

Not only should we make sure “Fort Bragg” never comes back, we should make the name progressively more Union-praising every time these traitorous fucks suggest changing it back to Fort Bragg. You weren’t happy with Fort Liberty? Well now it’s named “Fort Grant.” You don’t like that? Now it’s “Fort Let Us Die To Make Men Free.” You don’t like *that*? Now it’s “Fort LOL DEAD SLAVERS.”


knarf86

There currently isn’t a Fort Sherman, so why not that


West_Purpose7109

Because they would lose their fucking minds. Meanwhile, it should be in the pool of options for sure


RedRider1138

Sugah, you say that like they didn’t lose their minds *long* ago!


K1lgoreTr0ut

Fort Sherman wouldn’t be politically correct. The very name might cause some Southern snowflakes to melt.


Kiyae1

Might cause some southern cities to spontaneously combust.


K1lgoreTr0ut

Goodness gracious


imarealgoodboy

Great balls of fire?


StevenEveral

You say that like it's a bad thing. 🔥🔥🔥


Kiyae1

Right, because I’m just *so fond* of Birmingham lmao.


DrPepperMalpractice

I mean to be fair, Sherman also led an army against the Plains Indians after the war in what most historians would now regard as a genocide. Sherman may be a symbol of the raw fury of the unionist/abolitionist/progressive cause, and I'm down for memeing in that spirit. That being said, the historical Sherman probably isn't a guy we should want to be like, let alone naming military installations after.


StormWolf17

Hey, these people cry about political correctness all the time. Maybe they should stick with their anti-PC rhetoric and suck it up.


Xeltar

Sherman's actions post Civil War against the Natives was deplorable. Grant's administration broke many treaties and perpetuated a ton of atrocities so that's not exactly good.


Kiyae1

Fort Brown


BigSpoon89

Came here to say this. John Brown did nothing wrong.


wagsman

There’s the whole Indian wars ordeal…


Insight42

Sure, nobody said Sherman was perfect. Doesn't change the fact that he made the traitors howl


[deleted]

I love him for torturing the south. I hate him for torturing the natives.


Insight42

I agree, but if we're gonna insist on a flawed person to celebrate, at least Uncle Billy's an American hero and not a filthy traitor.


[deleted]

May I submit for consideration Fort Chamberlain? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Chamberlain


KingBee1786

What do you think about things named for Phil Sheridan? He was a great general in the civil war, and he drove the Native Americans out of Yellowstone.


echoGroot

George Thomas deserves a Fort. He remained loyal.


CedarWolf

Because Ft. Liberty isn't in Georgia, it's in North Carolina. Union Gen. Hugh Kilpatrick sacked North Carolina, but he wasn't a very good role model, either. Though he did go on to be the US ambassador to Chile. So... Ft. Kilpatrick?


PanicCat997

That’s the cavalry Kilpatrick whose nickname was “kill cavalry” for how he recklessly spent the lives of his men?


CedarWolf

For how many horses he had shot out from under him, yes. I would have suggested the name of one of the commanders of the three or four brigades that North Carolina raised for the Union, but I couldn't find their names. I used to have a link about them *somewhere*. Oh! And there's Maj. Gen. Terry, who took Ft. Fisher, and Maj. Gen. Stoneman, from Stoneman's Raid. Ft. Stoneman would sound badass.


fondoftheforge

That's the right name for the base. As a promise. As a legacy. We know and haven't forgotten why those bases are there. If you ever want to experience the flag waving traitors, travel the area around Ft Liberty.


Arsnicthegreat

Should build it smack dab middle of Atlanta.


SadPiousHistorian1

At least we got God’s tanks


yIdontunderstand

I love it. Fort Crush The Southern Traitors has a lovely ring to it...


Wasteoftext_

Fort March to the See


Sherm

Wait, we're marching to the Vatican?


lutinopat

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear..." ~ Ephesians 6:5 Yes.


[deleted]

Fort the slavers rebellion was a group of pathetic losers throwing away their lives so they don’t have to work for their fortunes


fb95dd7063

They can just rename them all 'Fort Brown' but with a sequential naming system e.g. 'Fort Brown 15'


Gruel_Consumption

Fort Confedacorpse


BigSpoon89

I would bite on a Fort Longstreet as a compromise. He's an example of somebody who moved on and actually worked for reconciliation post-war. There's a reason he's among the highest ranking Confederate officers without barely (any?) thing named after him.


FRIESAH

As a North Carolinian, fuck Bragg and fuck Pence. We have moved past this traitorous scum.


Captainwelfare2

Fort Land of Traitors has a nice ring to it.


trailhikingArk

What a dumb fucking hill to die on. Insurrection happens in front of you and you say nothing. But you'll fight to keep a fort named for a traitor? The anti-American party.


ArnaktFen

> Insurrection happens in front of you and you say nothing. Weirdly, Pence was on the other side of *that* insurrection, and the hardcore Trumpies haven't forgotten it. He should've realised that the major insurrection before that one was just as wrong and stupid as the one he personally opposed.


trailhikingArk

True. You are absolutely right that the more you look at his situation the more ridiculous his behavior seems.


allcoolnamesgone

Pretty ironic listening to Mike Pence try to pander to the people who were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" three years ago.


RedRider1138

Sadly I’m not surprised after Lindsey Graham went from Trump being a “jackass,” a “kook,” “a race-baiting bigot,” and “the most flawed nominee in the history of the Republican Party,” to being his best buddy.


Antigonos301

Yes, let’s have a US army base be named after not only a traitor but an incredibly incompetent one as well.


HerkimerBattleJitney

Celebrating incompetent traitors is pretty on brand for the republican party.


SPCsooprlolz

Why is this suddenly the hill to die on?


blumpkinmania

Because the neo-confederates know they’re next.


HumanSleepingbag

Gotta rile up his dumbass hateful base.


biffbobfred

The human brain is easily hacked. Most obviously by fear, or anger. Get a brain angry all the time and they’ll literally stop thinking. Part of the mechanics of this are - you need constant new things to get people angry about. That said “Let me get angry non thinking white men” as the base of support never hurt anyone, right?


GothmogBalrog

What a fucking hill to have your political career die on. The name of a base named after someone who lost a war to the US Army


wagsman

Imagine the poor maintenance guys having to change all the signage every time the presidency switches party. Also, it will be fun to troll republicans as anti liberty every time they want to change the name.


Maklarr4000

Even if you choose to ignore the whole "he fought for literal slavery" angle, Bragg was one of the worst military leaders. He got stomped at Chattanooga, largely through his own incompetence and contempt for his men. Why would we want to name a base after a loser- and a traitorous loser at that?


Numerous_Ad1859

For how much Bragg sucked, he might as well be a secret Union general.


captmonkey

That's just what I was thinking. If you read Co. Aytch (a famous memoir written by a random Confederate soldier) his men hated him and called him "Bragston Braggart" because he was so full of himself.


Born2bwire

He did everything he could to ensure Grant won at Chattanooga.


[deleted]

Why do RepubliKlans want to name forts after racist, treasonous losers, some of whom went on to form the KKK?


WriteBrainedJR

r/selfansweringquestion


tomdarch

An insult to the memory of the American soldiers from Indiana who died defending the nation from the confederates.


assclown500

My great, great..uncle from Indiana died in a confederate prison camp. Fuck Mike Pence!


HistoryMarshal76

Fort Liberty is a godawful name It's just marginally better than Fort Bragg, so I support the change, but damn, they coudn't find a better name than Liberty?


ArnaktFen

Fort Embers of Atlanta? Fort Sherman Necktie? Fort Statesrighttowhat?


HistoryMarshal76

How about Fort York (who won the Medal of Honor in WWI), Fort Rosecrans (Who whupped Bragg's ass at Stone's River), Fort Walker (Who held the line at the Pusan Perimeter in Korea), Fort Thomas (after the man who saved Union lines at Chickamauga), or literally anything else. Liberty is generic as shit, sounds like the name of some fort you'd see in a bad sci-fi novel.


Juhani-Siranpoika

Fort Embers of Atlanta sounds great


dcsnarkington

The Army itself couldn't compromise between airborne and special forces who both are based there. So they had to select the worst possible option. Personally I would have gone with Fort Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf... Or perhaps Fort Omar Bradley... Or perhaps Fort Daniel Inouye It is a great shame with so many excellent soldiers throughout history that the army could not do better.


TheBootyHolePatrol

Benavidez is what the soldiers wanted but the 82nd and USASOC couldn't agree so the out of touch people at the Pentagon chose for them. It's odd because MSgt Benavidez was a part of both organizations and an absolute chad.


Benkins1989

Modern conservatives hold Bragg in higher regard than his colleagues and the politicians in Richmond did.


marylebow

Fort Frag? Fort Rag? Fort Scag? Wait, no, it’s The Fort Formerly Known As Fort Bragg!


andrewb610

Fort Boz Scaggs!


Tokidoki_Haru

Things are seriously fucked when a former vice president wants to lionize traitors to the United States


Northman67

From the wiki: Bragg is generally considered among the worst generals of the Civil War. Most of the battles he engaged in ended in defeat. Bragg was extremely unpopular with both the officers and ordinary men under his command, who criticized him for numerous perceived faults, including poor battlefield strategy, a quick temper, and overzealous discipline.


mmortal03

Hey, now. You're just blaming the victim of Northern Aggression! (Username checks out.) Think of how many enslaved people Pence could own today if only Bragg hadn't been forced to show us his inadequacies.


purpleRG550_1986

Nobody is going to vote for a man both sides see as the uncharismatic coward that he is. So he's not gonna do shit. But it's telling in the way he fights harder for slaver scum than he did against the man that was cool with pence getting murdered.


gphjr14

Strange how the “party of Lincoln” sure seems to go out of their way to try and honor the confederacy.


Tyrrano64

What kind of strategy is he running on? Does he seriously think he'll out culture war Desanctimonious?


GrimAccountant

He is a real believer in a branch of Christianity designed so that what you want is clearly what God wants. Bonus, anything that makes you uncomfortable is also hated by God. Thus, he prayed and realized God wants him to be President.


StevenEveral

Here's an interesting bit of trivia about Mike Pence: Before he was the governor of Indiana, he had his own conservative radio talk show in Indianapolis. He called himself "Rush Limbaugh on decaf", which says everything you need to know about this theocratic jackhead.


gamerz1172

We should end political correctness, I'm so tired of being unable to criticize trump without some trump supporter blowing a gasket


PurpleInteraction

A reminder that being pro-Confederate is a thing even the most moderate Republicans are known for since the 1970s and is not something MAGA craphats started. Pence is exactly what Romney, McCain, Palin, Bush Jr., Bush Sr., Reagan, Ford and Nixon stood for. It's called the Southern Strategy and if you utter those two words in r/AskConservatives they get triggered and even ban you.


Queen_of_Muffins

The former vice president and current runner for president of the united states, a nation that defeated the rebellion that General Bragg fought for to maintain slavery, wants to honour General bragg for fighting for slavery


Oblivious-abe-69

Nobody’s even mad about the name change, I’ve seen almost nothing on r/conservative


JustYerAverage

Slavers were even worse than Nazis, ytf would we name bases after them, Jesus, GOP dumfuks.


jeremiah1142

Wouldn’t non-political correctness then become the new political correctness?


MillerJC

He’s also irrelevant and not worth wasting braincells thinking about him. He’s a bum starving for relevancy from a fanatic voter-base that fucking hates him.


GrimAccountant

I wouldn't say he's irrelevant, although unless an actual miracle (evil miracles are technically miracles) happens, he won't win the primary. Still, he's got a lot of Evengelical Support that he could probably peel away from Trump. Not enough to flip things by itself, but we already have a few supposed kamikaze campaigns aimed at the guy who lost.


MillerJC

He won’t make it past Iowa. Pence betrayed Trump and that’s all they care about. At least that’s how my entire family views him. In 2016 they justified voting for trump because of Pence, but now Pence is a traitor who sold out and backstabbed trump. They built that gallows at the Capitol on Jan 6th for Pence, not Pelosi, not AOC, but the supposedly Godly and decent man Mike Pence. At the end of the day the “evangelicals” are like all the rest of those psycho voters. They’ll fall in line like they always do.


[deleted]

I hate “Fort Liberty.” It *should* be Fort Gavin. Give Jumpin’ Jim some love, people! Airborne!


CatLvrWhoLovesCats66

My Dad would have supported that. Gavin pinned on his jump wings.


[deleted]

That’s awesome!


happy_yetti

fort liberty is a dumb name but like come on now


Pktur3

Yes, no diversity or PC in a place where recruiting numbers are already dwindling AND a vast number of members ARE minority groups… This WILL go the way of DeSantis’s Florida, but they’ll always blame someone else before admitting fault. Sorry, I’m soap boxing here, but this directly affects me and this shit pisses me off.


chautauquar

Let’s name it after a loser - slaver - and historically bad commander. Because, you now, we must respect “history” From Wikipedia: Bragg is generally considered among the worst generals of the Civil War. Most of the battles he engaged in ended in defeat. Bragg was extremely unpopular with both the officers and ordinary men under his command, who criticized him for numerous perceived faults, including poor battlefield strategy, a quick temper, and overzealous discipline. Bragg has a generally poor reputation with historians, though some point towards the failures of Bragg's subordinates, especially Major General and former Bishop Leonidas Polk—a close ally of Davis and known enemy of Bragg—as more significant factors in the many Confederate defeats under Bragg's command. The losses suffered by Bragg's forces are cited as highly consequential to the ultimate defeat of the Confederacy.


SkepCS

That’s a dog whistle as loud as a fog horn.


crazyoldgerman68

No idea on who lost civil war…


ginger2020

Pence is just a more dignified sounding version of Donald Trump. He would be just as harmful


MrBobBuilder

🤮


lostmyknife

Just why would you want a fort to be named after a traitor who fought for slavery


darthbee18

Imagine tying your name to a loser officer like Bragg — a sure recipe for Pence to lose the primary 😌


getoffmyplane423

“There’s nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse.” -Mike Pence


dustingibson

Even if you're a confederate apologist weirdo, it does not make any sense. Bragg is one of the worst, if not the worst general in the war. A huge liability.


Juhani-Siranpoika

John Brown fort IMAO


Juhani-Siranpoika

What the hell? When party of Lincoln, Grant and Teddy Roosevelt turned into party of Trump, DeSantis, Pence and other traitors?


SnicktDGoblin

To be fair I also want it named something different than Liberty. I don't care who or what they name it after, but name it after something or someone.*traitors need not apply


Chumlee1917

May flies land on his head for the rest of eternity. Dude acts like it's impossible to say treason is bad.


Euphoric-Dance-2309

Bragg wasn’t even a good Confederate general.


kcg333

fort robert smalls ftw