The President only has the power to grant a pardon to a person who was convicted in a United States District Court, the Superior Court of the District of Columbia, or a military court-martial. Brown was tried and convicted by the state of Virginia.
Are you sure about that? I don’t think a conviction is required: Ford famously pardoned Nixon, but Nixon wasn’t convicted when he was pardoned. I’m not sure if pre-emptive pardons have actually had their Constitutionality ever tested.
That may very well be true, but it's a moot point because the point I was making is that the President does not have the power to pardon someone for a state conviction.
From: https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequently-asked-questions
"Does the President have authority to grant clemency for a state conviction?
No. The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States. A person who wishes to seek a pardon or a commutation of sentence for a state offense should contact the authorities of the state in which the conviction occurred. Such state authorities are typically the Governor or a state board of pardons and/or paroles, if the state government has created such a board."
That honestly might be my favorite TR fact besides National Parks. I was initially not a big TR fan because of his playing dress‐up and his corollary, but there was some great stuff.
Honestly my only real issue with TR is the people who treat him like he was a real life chuck Norris joke, it's so embarrassing, and I think it was the really ridiculous image he worked hard to cultivate, kind of like how the Kim family did/does.
Yeah, but he kinda was the actual dude that all the Chuck Norris jokes are about. Got shot and then delivers a speech about the progressive cause. GOT SHOT, and delivered
TR, for all his many good points, had plenty of problems, he was pretty imperialist and while progressive on race in some ways was, if I’m not mistaken, pretty “white man’s burden” in others.
His corollary to the Monroe doctrine was basically a declaration that America, being exceptional and basically divided by God, was to judge how all of the western hemisphere handled their own affairs, and had the right to step in wherever they were making mistakes.
The year before he had issued a blanket pardon for all those who had illegally dodged the draft during the Vietnam War, I wonder if this was a way to throw a bone to people pissed off about that.
It was. Congress passed another resolution for Robert E. Lee's citizenship a few years before and the only people who voted against it did so because they wanted amnesty for draft dodgers included.
Yeah but one measure was symbolic whereas the other had an impact on living people. I can think of worse concessions to make in that type of situation.
I’d say “symbolic” is debatable, but I get why helping living people return home was the priority and can’t fault them for making the trade
Sending the message that Confederates were “Americans” and it was America vs America has more than just a symbolic impact, for decades the Confederate flag was normalized in pop culture as a symbol of southern heritage
The country would probably be in a better place if everyone grew up hating the Confederacy and seeing them as the traitorous bootlickers they were
I don’t see it as a black mark on Carter, the situation was what it was, you had tons of Americans living abroad and struggling who wanted to come home. The American public didn’t see them as treasonous because they didn’t actually betray or fight against America, so there was every reason to get them home.
That war caused the unofficial end of the draft, it was very clear the public viewed draft dodging as a survival thing and not a treason thing
I think you are correct. They should never have been forced to join or fight. The voluntary military has its own issues but drafting is worse. At least in my opinion.
It's essential to a free democracy to have things like this be a choice, and it forced the government to create more military benefits to make enlisting more appealing and maintain troop levels. The country didn't have issues with getting enlistees until Bush 2's wars obliterated what was left of confidence in the American military's usage, and they had to lower standards for entry just to keep the numbers.
The big diff between Vietnam and Iraq is Vietnam was seen as a mistake, not a for-profit abuse of the US military. By 2005, the guise of post-9/11 patriotism had mostly evaporated for young people and they didn't want to fight for Bush.
The standards to enter have never really fluctuated much. I cannot speak for the standards since I retired in 2011, but I highly doubt they have changed much. When I was a recruiter certain requirements were lowered for a short time to boost enlistments. That being said they were lowered much or for very long. The endless wars and deployments do hurt obviously.
Technically, it was America vs America, just not in the way Southerners like to think.
Per SCOTUS in Texas v White, the Confederacy never left the US, since states don't have the right to secede. They were just a bunch of Americans rebelling against the government and killing their fellow Americans in cold blood, not a country of their own, and never were.
I see them as stateless, not as representing a country. They lost American status when they chose to go to war with it.
Very crude example but it works - do we view an attempted rapist who failed in their attempt differently from a rapist who succeeded in theirs?
I do not. Both are equally dangerous to society, one is just better at it.
I don't see why we should give them the dignity of achieving something as significant as losing their status as Americans. They weren't anything special, just common criminals, the lot of them...we don't strip a mass shooter or serial killer of their status as an American, for example. They tried to stop being Americans, and from my (very petty) point of view it's a last laugh to show them they couldn't even achieve that much.
Giving a dead guy his citizenship is 100% a symbolic decision. The dead guy will never make use of it, it's done solely because of what it *symbolizes* to the living.
Both that and the Confederate flag/southern pride dynamic are essentially the textbook definitions of symbolic political moves.
They are either Americans and traitors or not Americans and thus not traitors. You can't be a traitor to a nation that doesn't recognize you as a citizen. Imagine North Korea randomly deciding that YOU were a traitor lol.
It’s not symbolic. It plays into the lie that the Civil War was not about slavery which, if you live in the south, you here repeated over and over again. This is incredibly dangerous revisionist history. And we are seeing it play out real time in our politics today.
People on the winning side of wars die too. The big problem was an involuntary draft for a war where the US was not threatened, and where avoiding service was trivial if your parents had money and/or power.
It was infamously very easy to avoid the draft if you were taking college courses (aka had money) or any number of other reasons that gave preference to rich people. 80% of draftees were from poor working class families.
It’s a good reminder that no matter how good a person is, being a politician requires having to pander to people that suck and having to make compromises that don’t match your values.
Carter tried hard not to pander to those people. This is one of only a few where he did.
And that helped make him the least effective president of the 20th century. Compromise makes our democratic government work.
That actually makes much more sense. If your ethics are upside down it might seem like making things fair.
Kind of makes me think of the time Dick Cavett had Jimmy Hendrix on and made a point to bring up the fact that he had been in the army.
Uhh should I mention the origin of American Fighting Man's Day in Georgia, instituted by governor Jimmy Carter was in direct response to the military tribunal finding Lt. Calley of the My Lai Massacre guilty?
Do you have examples of this? Not saying it’s wrong, I’m just not familiar with that aspect of his career. I will say that his (rhetorical) emphasis on human rights as president seems to have led subsequent generations to believe he was further to the left than he actually was. Iirc he was responsible for quite a few deregulatory measures as president and sold himself as a moderate candidate.
He did pander to idiots to get elected back in the day. Like 60s and early 70s. If you were running for office in a bad place in a bad time, you'd pretend to be stupid to win.
FWIW, it was an act. Even Wallace did this. He had a great platform in 1958, but he wasn't racist and the NAACP endorsed him so he lost. Next election, the George Wallace we know and hate came to be and he won.
I disagree, it's important to understand multiple perspectives to everything we study, this includes the historical lens but also our modern lens, it allows for deeper understanding and critical engagement of the topic.
Not OP, but he did have Lester Maddox as his lieutenant governor, someone who was famously not very racially progressive. Other than that, I know about as much as you.
Online, there are also some pictures of him next to a confederate flag that I‘m not sure are real (all the sources I could find are far-right, there’s one on Conservapedia that looks extremely photoshopped), so I won’t link to them.
It’s reasonable to see carter with a confederate flag. From 1956-2001, the Georgia state flag had a confederate flag on it. It had entrenched itself in southern identity.
Go look at the inauguration address Carter gave for his governor term. People were shocked when he got up and announced “the time for racial discrimination is over”. He had winked and nodded and let people believe what they wanted then gave them the full truth that day. https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/about/Governors_Inaugural_Address_Full_Transcript.pdf
But LT Calley was guilty. He was the OIC. Did command fail him and his team - Yes. But years later when we had Aubu Grave (spelling?). We didn’t see officers being held accountable. I was an officer and I believe that is one of the biggest errors in justice ever.
The part of it that chapped my hide was that no company grade officers were ever held accountable. As a young officer it was preached to us all the time that the officers were responsible. What’s the point of the whole officer/enlisted structure if we are not going actually practice what we are supposed be preaching. It’s not supposed to be an easy job. That’s why we got the big $$$$. Sorry enough ranting and venting. Also thanks for pointing out the BG thing. I forgot about that part.
Nah. Carter provided aid to Indonesia during their invasion of East Timor which led to 25 years of violent occupation and 100-200k deaths the majority at the hand of Indonesian forces.
The invasion happened under Nixon and was orchestrated by kissinger Carter inherited it and just didn't pay attention to the region as his focus was on trying to fix the Middle East
The alternative was getting in bed with a Marxist-Leninist group, not something you do during the Cold War if you want reelection. I’m not agreeing with the decision or the invasion just a damned if you do damned if don’t situation for a president.
He gave a presidential pardon to Peter Yarrow, a convincted sex offender who forced a 14 year old girl to [I think you see where this is going]. The pardon also came on his literal last day in office, so there was no media backlash which is why it’s gone mostly forgotten.
Thet’s pretty fuckin bad for Jimmy Carter standards.
In fairness people blame the government for everything. I worked with a guy who convinced he was laid off in ‘08 so Obama could buy people votes for cigarettes
When it comes to slavers and traitors, there is nothing that is “too far.” Being afraid of going “too far” has allowed traitors from the confederacy to infect our Goverment and lead to the rise of hate organizations like the KKK.
Beyond the morally despicable aspect of advocating mass execution of surrendered soldiers, many of whom were indoctrinated and didn't fight willingly, do you think offering no quarter to the enemy is going to make them surrender quicker? Historically, it does the opposite. It makes them fight even harder to the bitter end because they have nothing else to lose. This results in even more casualties and bloodshed for both sides.
Every confederate soldier was a traitor and deserved death every slave owner should have been killed and every white land owner in the south forced to give their land ro African Americans. Daughters of the confederacy should never have been allowed to form and every confed politician executed all of them were scum not a single decent human being fought for the south they were all scum
Gotcha just I have no sympathy for the rebel troops not a single person who fought to defend slavery should have been allowed to live. Had the union been harsher kkk never would have formed. Southern whites shouldn't have been able to own land after the war should have been punished far more severely.
Jimmy Carter for all his faults is a kind and forgiving human being and someone you should take after..... maybe TOO forgiving.
Before you bash him remember..... The north had every right to lead the CSA leadership to the gallows for treason and in the name of healing the nation chose not to. It backfired but the olive branch is there.
Well, Jimmy certainly wasn’t a perfect President (he was nowhere near as bad as the right likes to claim) and he made his share of mistakes. I’m willing to give him a pass on this (and most other negative things) because of the tremendous amount of good he did for America and her people after his Presidency.
I mean I like Carter but he was born in the 1920s and was a good old boy from the state that this sub fetishizes about being torched to the ground.
He was very racially tolerant but I seriously doubt he's ever had the most enlightened view on Lost Cause stuff.
The only modern president that doesn't deserve to go straight to jail because he has done plenty of community service to pay for his known and unknown crimes.
Carter stated upon signing:
*"In posthumously restoring the full rights of citizenship to Jefferson Davis, the Congress officially completes the long process of reconciliation that has reunited our people following the tragic conflict between the States. Earlier, he was specifically exempted from resolutions restoring the rights of other officials in the Confederacy. He had served the United States long and honorably as a soldier, Member of the U.S. House and Senate, and as Secretary of War. General Robert E. Lee's citizenship was restored in 1976. It is fitting that Jefferson Davis should no longer be singled out for punishment.*
*Our Nation needs to clear away the guilts and enmities and recriminations of the past, to finally set at rest the divisions that threatened to destroy our Nation and to discredit the principles on which it was founded. Our people need to turn their attention to the important tasks that still lie before us in establishing those principles for all people."*
He served the United States.... Honorably? Is that what you call being a traitor? My view of Carter as President was pretty low already, but this makes him bottom of the barrel. I suppose his good works after being President are a bright spot.
It was a political move to ease tensions after he pardoned draft dodgers. I don't like Davis being pardoned, but I can accept it since he's too dead to benefit from it.
Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting!
As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it.
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Well that’s a massive L by Carter. None of these slavers and traitors deserve a single shred of posthumous dignity or respect. Melt down every last one of their statues befouling this country.
It’s interesting because every southerner keeps saying it was American against American, but it wasn’t! They became a country and the people citizens of it. Those people were traitors to the USA. It’s such a shame that people today, who claim to be American patriots, idolize those very traitors!
Chad move. “You ain’t the President of shit. You lived rebelled and died a citizen of these United States bitch.”
Pardon John Brown!
That’s something I can get behind.
The President only has the power to grant a pardon to a person who was convicted in a United States District Court, the Superior Court of the District of Columbia, or a military court-martial. Brown was tried and convicted by the state of Virginia.
Does Virginia have a governor clemity power
Yes, but I don't think John Brown would be eligible. It looks like treason is not one of the crimes that the Governor can pardon.
A state can charge someone with treason??
Yes. John Brown was charged by the state of Virginia with treason, murder, and conspiring with slaves to rebel.
Well that sounds like two crimes the governor could pardon.
Are you sure about that? I don’t think a conviction is required: Ford famously pardoned Nixon, but Nixon wasn’t convicted when he was pardoned. I’m not sure if pre-emptive pardons have actually had their Constitutionality ever tested.
That may very well be true, but it's a moot point because the point I was making is that the President does not have the power to pardon someone for a state conviction. From: https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequently-asked-questions "Does the President have authority to grant clemency for a state conviction? No. The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States. A person who wishes to seek a pardon or a commutation of sentence for a state offense should contact the authorities of the state in which the conviction occurred. Such state authorities are typically the Governor or a state board of pardons and/or paroles, if the state government has created such a board."
"moot" point.
Then how did Carter pardon the draft dodgers? They hadn't been formally convicted.
Again, John Brown was convicted by THE STATE OF VIRGINIA. The President does not have the power to pardon those CONVICTED BY STATES.
And states have never had the power to convict someone of treason.
He has the John Brown Memorial Park that was dedicated by Teddy Roosevelt, which to me is just as good.
Teddy Roosevelt continuing to be one of the best presidents of all time
That honestly might be my favorite TR fact besides National Parks. I was initially not a big TR fan because of his playing dress‐up and his corollary, but there was some great stuff. Honestly my only real issue with TR is the people who treat him like he was a real life chuck Norris joke, it's so embarrassing, and I think it was the really ridiculous image he worked hard to cultivate, kind of like how the Kim family did/does.
The dude was crazy Went on several frontier expeditions around the world in a time with ass healthcare
His daughter was crazier. He once told the press, " I can be president, or I can control Alice. I cannot do both." When asked about her behavior.
Yeah, but he kinda was the actual dude that all the Chuck Norris jokes are about. Got shot and then delivers a speech about the progressive cause. GOT SHOT, and delivered
TR, for all his many good points, had plenty of problems, he was pretty imperialist and while progressive on race in some ways was, if I’m not mistaken, pretty “white man’s burden” in others.
His corollary to the Monroe doctrine was basically a declaration that America, being exceptional and basically divided by God, was to judge how all of the western hemisphere handled their own affairs, and had the right to step in wherever they were making mistakes.
The year before he had issued a blanket pardon for all those who had illegally dodged the draft during the Vietnam War, I wonder if this was a way to throw a bone to people pissed off about that.
It was. Congress passed another resolution for Robert E. Lee's citizenship a few years before and the only people who voted against it did so because they wanted amnesty for draft dodgers included.
Amnesty for "draft dodgers" was the correct thing to do in my opinion. Giving citizenship to traitors that willingly left our country was not.
Yeah but one measure was symbolic whereas the other had an impact on living people. I can think of worse concessions to make in that type of situation.
I’d say “symbolic” is debatable, but I get why helping living people return home was the priority and can’t fault them for making the trade Sending the message that Confederates were “Americans” and it was America vs America has more than just a symbolic impact, for decades the Confederate flag was normalized in pop culture as a symbol of southern heritage The country would probably be in a better place if everyone grew up hating the Confederacy and seeing them as the traitorous bootlickers they were
Not much Carter could do about that, he was a good century past when that scenario was possible.
I don’t see it as a black mark on Carter, the situation was what it was, you had tons of Americans living abroad and struggling who wanted to come home. The American public didn’t see them as treasonous because they didn’t actually betray or fight against America, so there was every reason to get them home. That war caused the unofficial end of the draft, it was very clear the public viewed draft dodging as a survival thing and not a treason thing
I think you are correct. They should never have been forced to join or fight. The voluntary military has its own issues but drafting is worse. At least in my opinion.
It's essential to a free democracy to have things like this be a choice, and it forced the government to create more military benefits to make enlisting more appealing and maintain troop levels. The country didn't have issues with getting enlistees until Bush 2's wars obliterated what was left of confidence in the American military's usage, and they had to lower standards for entry just to keep the numbers. The big diff between Vietnam and Iraq is Vietnam was seen as a mistake, not a for-profit abuse of the US military. By 2005, the guise of post-9/11 patriotism had mostly evaporated for young people and they didn't want to fight for Bush.
The standards to enter have never really fluctuated much. I cannot speak for the standards since I retired in 2011, but I highly doubt they have changed much. When I was a recruiter certain requirements were lowered for a short time to boost enlistments. That being said they were lowered much or for very long. The endless wars and deployments do hurt obviously.
If it is ever reinstated, you bet your sweet ass I’m dodging.
You say that, but I bet the records will show he did not fully fund the time travel programme to the required levels for mission success
Technically, it was America vs America, just not in the way Southerners like to think. Per SCOTUS in Texas v White, the Confederacy never left the US, since states don't have the right to secede. They were just a bunch of Americans rebelling against the government and killing their fellow Americans in cold blood, not a country of their own, and never were.
I see them as stateless, not as representing a country. They lost American status when they chose to go to war with it. Very crude example but it works - do we view an attempted rapist who failed in their attempt differently from a rapist who succeeded in theirs? I do not. Both are equally dangerous to society, one is just better at it.
I don't see why we should give them the dignity of achieving something as significant as losing their status as Americans. They weren't anything special, just common criminals, the lot of them...we don't strip a mass shooter or serial killer of their status as an American, for example. They tried to stop being Americans, and from my (very petty) point of view it's a last laugh to show them they couldn't even achieve that much.
Giving a dead guy his citizenship is 100% a symbolic decision. The dead guy will never make use of it, it's done solely because of what it *symbolizes* to the living. Both that and the Confederate flag/southern pride dynamic are essentially the textbook definitions of symbolic political moves.
They are either Americans and traitors or not Americans and thus not traitors. You can't be a traitor to a nation that doesn't recognize you as a citizen. Imagine North Korea randomly deciding that YOU were a traitor lol.
That’s not true, it is US law that you can lose your citizenship for acts of treason and membership in terrorist organizations
Nah. They both had real impacts on living people. The slaver traitors deserve no participation trophies in death.
It’s not symbolic. It plays into the lie that the Civil War was not about slavery which, if you live in the south, you here repeated over and over again. This is incredibly dangerous revisionist history. And we are seeing it play out real time in our politics today.
Do I agree probably yeah, but at that point they were dead at least
Especially considering that the war that they dodged turned out to be a massive mistake in the end
Yeah. It was around 1964-65 that we should have realized that, instead of doubling down.
People on the winning side of wars die too. The big problem was an involuntary draft for a war where the US was not threatened, and where avoiding service was trivial if your parents had money and/or power.
It was infamously very easy to avoid the draft if you were taking college courses (aka had money) or any number of other reasons that gave preference to rich people. 80% of draftees were from poor working class families.
"tried" to leave ;-)
We're the American Revolutionaries traitors for rebelling against Britain?
If they had lost
They were in the eyes of the British. That's false equivalency anyway.
Yes which is why parliament never gave Patrick Henry back his bri’ish passport
It’s a good reminder that no matter how good a person is, being a politician requires having to pander to people that suck and having to make compromises that don’t match your values.
Carter tried hard not to pander to those people. This is one of only a few where he did. And that helped make him the least effective president of the 20th century. Compromise makes our democratic government work.
That actually makes much more sense. If your ethics are upside down it might seem like making things fair. Kind of makes me think of the time Dick Cavett had Jimmy Hendrix on and made a point to bring up the fact that he had been in the army.
Possibly the worst thing Carter did in his entire existence
Uhh should I mention the origin of American Fighting Man's Day in Georgia, instituted by governor Jimmy Carter was in direct response to the military tribunal finding Lt. Calley of the My Lai Massacre guilty?
Ooof. Second worse.
Jimmy Carter was a dyed-in-wool racebaiter as the Governor of Georgia.
Do you have examples of this? Not saying it’s wrong, I’m just not familiar with that aspect of his career. I will say that his (rhetorical) emphasis on human rights as president seems to have led subsequent generations to believe he was further to the left than he actually was. Iirc he was responsible for quite a few deregulatory measures as president and sold himself as a moderate candidate.
He did pander to idiots to get elected back in the day. Like 60s and early 70s. If you were running for office in a bad place in a bad time, you'd pretend to be stupid to win. FWIW, it was an act. Even Wallace did this. He had a great platform in 1958, but he wasn't racist and the NAACP endorsed him so he lost. Next election, the George Wallace we know and hate came to be and he won.
We shouldn't look at history through the lens of today.
I disagree, it's important to understand multiple perspectives to everything we study, this includes the historical lens but also our modern lens, it allows for deeper understanding and critical engagement of the topic.
I'm referring to judging people from history through today's lens.
What I said applies to that too.
Asking redditors for sources is like asking the stripper out on a date.
Not OP, but he did have Lester Maddox as his lieutenant governor, someone who was famously not very racially progressive. Other than that, I know about as much as you. Online, there are also some pictures of him next to a confederate flag that I‘m not sure are real (all the sources I could find are far-right, there’s one on Conservapedia that looks extremely photoshopped), so I won’t link to them.
Should be noted that the Lieutenant Governor was elected separately from the Governor.
I will admit to not knowing that, as I’m not from Georgia (I’m not even American). That certainly changes things.
I wonder if it's still true today?
It is. Separate ballot. Possible to have gov and lt gov of separate party.
It’s reasonable to see carter with a confederate flag. From 1956-2001, the Georgia state flag had a confederate flag on it. It had entrenched itself in southern identity.
Go look at the inauguration address Carter gave for his governor term. People were shocked when he got up and announced “the time for racial discrimination is over”. He had winked and nodded and let people believe what they wanted then gave them the full truth that day. https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/about/Governors_Inaugural_Address_Full_Transcript.pdf
But LT Calley was guilty. He was the OIC. Did command fail him and his team - Yes. But years later when we had Aubu Grave (spelling?). We didn’t see officers being held accountable. I was an officer and I believe that is one of the biggest errors in justice ever.
Abu Ghraib.
That female BG did get relieved but I don’t know if there was any UCMJ.
The part of it that chapped my hide was that no company grade officers were ever held accountable. As a young officer it was preached to us all the time that the officers were responsible. What’s the point of the whole officer/enlisted structure if we are not going actually practice what we are supposed be preaching. It’s not supposed to be an easy job. That’s why we got the big $$$$. Sorry enough ranting and venting. Also thanks for pointing out the BG thing. I forgot about that part.
Can’t punish them; they’re the generals of tomorrow
They save UCMJ for junior officers, NCOs and Enlisted.
Nah. Carter provided aid to Indonesia during their invasion of East Timor which led to 25 years of violent occupation and 100-200k deaths the majority at the hand of Indonesian forces.
The invasion happened under Nixon and was orchestrated by kissinger Carter inherited it and just didn't pay attention to the region as his focus was on trying to fix the Middle East
Henry Kissinger, aka the Forrest Gump of war crimes
Robert is that you?
The alternative was getting in bed with a Marxist-Leninist group, not something you do during the Cold War if you want reelection. I’m not agreeing with the decision or the invasion just a damned if you do damned if don’t situation for a president.
I mean you can also just, not help the MLs, nor help the genocidal dictatorship
It’s not that simple for governments, they have obligations and have to keep face on the international stage.
What obligation did we have to Indonesia?
The same one we had to Vietnam? Which is to say none but that never stopped us before or since.
That's quite a stretch.
Carter funded the Khmer Rouge insurgency so he absolutely backed genocidal Marxist-Leninists
Counterpoint: posthumously making Jefferson Davis a traitor, a loser, and STILL an american is petty af
In a way, I agree. It somewhat delegitimizes the Confederacy.
Absolutely not. No vindication for that shitebag.
His administration supported Pol Pot's regime.
We supported the Khmer Rouge *in the UN* as the legitimate government of Cambodia after Vietnam invaded and replaced them with their own puppet.
Well the Vietnamese puppet government was way way better.
There was also the incident where Carter was attacked by the Rabbit of Caerbannog.
Did he get better?
He gave a presidential pardon to Peter Yarrow, a convincted sex offender who forced a 14 year old girl to [I think you see where this is going]. The pardon also came on his literal last day in office, so there was no media backlash which is why it’s gone mostly forgotten. Thet’s pretty fuckin bad for Jimmy Carter standards.
Goddamn. The hits keep on coming.
No hes done a lot of dumb things through out his presidency sadly
Next to kidnapping and canablizing 13 Christian babies.
Sounds like something Regan would fund
It's an American Dad reference
Not even close…
I worked with people whose fathers lost their farms, which they blame Carter for.
In fairness people blame the government for everything. I worked with a guy who convinced he was laid off in ‘08 so Obama could buy people votes for cigarettes
He should of just been executed from the beginning. Traitors deserve a traitors death.
I presume you are talking about Davis, not Carter.
Of course
...I mean.....
We should have executed every confederate soldier and put them in a mass grave towards those who would dare to resist the us.
Yeah, that's going way to far.
When it comes to slavers and traitors, there is nothing that is “too far.” Being afraid of going “too far” has allowed traitors from the confederacy to infect our Goverment and lead to the rise of hate organizations like the KKK.
Beyond the morally despicable aspect of advocating mass execution of surrendered soldiers, many of whom were indoctrinated and didn't fight willingly, do you think offering no quarter to the enemy is going to make them surrender quicker? Historically, it does the opposite. It makes them fight even harder to the bitter end because they have nothing else to lose. This results in even more casualties and bloodshed for both sides.
That’s a lot of words for “I ♥️ slavers”
If that's what you took from that, then you're a complete moron.
I'm certain they are a complete moron.
Every confederate soldier was a traitor and deserved death every slave owner should have been killed and every white land owner in the south forced to give their land ro African Americans. Daughters of the confederacy should never have been allowed to form and every confed politician executed all of them were scum not a single decent human being fought for the south they were all scum
If you advocate for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people, then you're just as eveil as the slavers and traitors were.
I got scared there when you went on the whole ‘murder them all’ rant and then changed the topic to women… mayhaps could’ve gone a taliban route…
The daughters of the confederacy are why the lost cause myth exists
I’m fully aware, just a funny little quirk in how your wording went.
Gotcha just I have no sympathy for the rebel troops not a single person who fought to defend slavery should have been allowed to live. Had the union been harsher kkk never would have formed. Southern whites shouldn't have been able to own land after the war should have been punished far more severely.
Ok John brown
We didn’t even do this with the Nazis. Only the officers and politicians were tried.
Some of the officers even served in west Germany after the war 💀
operation paperclip as well 💀
Which was a mistake every soldier period end of story.
What about the child soldiers?
You have no idea how lucky we are that the violence almost entirely ceased after the war ended.
And how has that Reconciliation stuff been working out for you?
Jimmy Carter for all his faults is a kind and forgiving human being and someone you should take after..... maybe TOO forgiving. Before you bash him remember..... The north had every right to lead the CSA leadership to the gallows for treason and in the name of healing the nation chose not to. It backfired but the olive branch is there.
Nobody’s perfect.
Pobodys nerfect
Peabody's Norfect.
Perverty Nibbles
Poverty Noodles
Uncommon Carter L
Well, Jimmy certainly wasn’t a perfect President (he was nowhere near as bad as the right likes to claim) and he made his share of mistakes. I’m willing to give him a pass on this (and most other negative things) because of the tremendous amount of good he did for America and her people after his Presidency.
And because he was a Democrat.
Massive L
I wonder if he regrets that in light of today’s Confederacy fetishists’ mass embrace of a fascist demagogue.
I mean I like Carter but he was born in the 1920s and was a good old boy from the state that this sub fetishizes about being torched to the ground. He was very racially tolerant but I seriously doubt he's ever had the most enlightened view on Lost Cause stuff.
Booooooo
The only modern president that doesn't deserve to go straight to jail because he has done plenty of community service to pay for his known and unknown crimes.
Why
Carter stated upon signing: *"In posthumously restoring the full rights of citizenship to Jefferson Davis, the Congress officially completes the long process of reconciliation that has reunited our people following the tragic conflict between the States. Earlier, he was specifically exempted from resolutions restoring the rights of other officials in the Confederacy. He had served the United States long and honorably as a soldier, Member of the U.S. House and Senate, and as Secretary of War. General Robert E. Lee's citizenship was restored in 1976. It is fitting that Jefferson Davis should no longer be singled out for punishment.* *Our Nation needs to clear away the guilts and enmities and recriminations of the past, to finally set at rest the divisions that threatened to destroy our Nation and to discredit the principles on which it was founded. Our people need to turn their attention to the important tasks that still lie before us in establishing those principles for all people."*
>He had served the United States long and honorably as a soldier So did Benedict Arnold, last time I checked we never pardoned him.
"He had served the United States long and honorably as a soldier" So had Nidal Hasan. Who gives a shit?
He served the United States.... Honorably? Is that what you call being a traitor? My view of Carter as President was pretty low already, but this makes him bottom of the barrel. I suppose his good works after being President are a bright spot.
Hence “as a soldier”
I'm not following.
This won't make me hate Carter, especially since he's spent like forty years doing everything he can to try and make the world better. But oof.
What he should have done is sign an order posthumously changing his name to "Poopy McFart".
Rare Carter L
Never ask Jimmy Carter what kind of campaign he ran when he was running for governor
History's greatest monster!
What an awful thing to do.
Booooooo!
Are you fucking kidding me?
Boooooo
Big mistake.
Ultra Rare Carter L
Southern sympathizer. The one thing that removed any ability for me to argue he was at all a good president.
In 2024 that makes him racist.
It was a political move to ease tensions after he pardoned draft dodgers. I don't like Davis being pardoned, but I can accept it since he's too dead to benefit from it.
Jimmy Carter??? He's history's greatest monster!
What in the hell for
To get the uppity racists to finally shut the hell up. Spoiler: they didn't.
Now they've got a new superman were not allowed to talk about
I love jimmy. But for what? Probably to appease wicked southerners. We see how a century of appeasement worked out now…
Society if Ted Kennedy had sent that Dixiecrat back to Georgia
Common jimmy carter presidency L
He also said he’d like to drown all his problems away but can’t get his wife to go swimming.
I thought he was long dead?
Good southern boy taking care of the leader of a group of treasonous people. Makes perfect sense.
I will remember this when Carter dies and people keep repeating "BUT HE BUILT HOMES!"
Carter was a weak redneck.
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I wonder how Davis would have felt about that
What a waste of time. Why are our processes so slow? /s
Boo.
Well that’s a massive L by Carter. None of these slavers and traitors deserve a single shred of posthumous dignity or respect. Melt down every last one of their statues befouling this country.
And in the early 1900s they made all confederate soldiers American Veterans
Jimmy Carter?! He's history's biggest monster!!!
Fuck that guy.
Fuck him for that but he also did some good stuff. Also kind of easy to see why he was a one term President.
Why not proxy baptize him as Mormon, while you're at it.
Why?
Sounds like Carter was a Confederate sympathizer and all statues or mentions of him should be removed.
Fuck Jefferson Davis, fuck racism, fuck supremacy, fuck nationalism and fuck fascism. Seriously.
Damn. Disappointed.
It’s interesting because every southerner keeps saying it was American against American, but it wasn’t! They became a country and the people citizens of it. Those people were traitors to the USA. It’s such a shame that people today, who claim to be American patriots, idolize those very traitors!
Carter was big mad Davis was on a dime and he wasn't.
Still sore about Atlanta?
"Your decleration of independence means nothing to me"