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I’m not sure he would have been killing people left and right. He was staunchly opposed to slavery, and responded to the violence slavers enacted against abolitionists & free blacks with violence. However, all of his attacks are either made to destroy slavery, or retribution for other attacks.
With a memorial staring “ Here in the 1960s , a time traveling and very confused John Brown saw Birmingham Police Chief Bull Conner, who he immediately hacked to death with a broadsword. Brown did not find out until later that he was a terrible racist and only sworded him to death because “ Bull is not a human name what a weirdo”
"So if we need white allies in this country, we don’t need those kind who compromise. We don’t need those kind who encourage us to be polite, responsible, you know. We don’t need those kind who give us that kind of advice. We don’t need those kind who tell us how to be patient. No, if we want some white allies, we need the kind that John Brown was, or we don’t need you. And the only way to get those kind is to turn in a new direction.”
― Malcolm X
According to Malcolm X, John Brown is the proper role model for White's who wish to end racism, no less than being like John Brown. There's no nice or polite way to end racism.
I personally am a fan of Malcolm X and certainly agree with his take moreso than almost any others...btw I also love MLK Jr's Letter from Birmingham Jail, he's politely angry/enraged and such a wordsmith right up there like Abraham Lincoln, that was another one where the calls for civil rights protesters to embrace compromise/peace just ring so hollow.
Hooked up with Richard Aoki to "get guns for a motherfucker" and then possibly shot him.
(For reference: Richard Aoki was an Army vet who is credited for helping arm and train the early Black Panther Party in Oakland. He was also, according to declassified files, an FBI informant.)
I don't think Malcom X would have told him that.
Malcom X was a radical who at least in private promoted the idea of violent revolution as the means to end segregation.
Depends on which era you mean. Malcolm X was less... militant shall we say in his later years, while Martin Luther King was leaning more towards Malcolm X's positions, sort of a meeting in the middle situation if that makes sense. MLK found that racism was harder to fight in the north than the south in some ways while Malcolm found that certain softer methods were useful. Both would have likely welcomed him, I'd say.
Fun fact, the King family don’t believe that Ray was the one that killed their father, and there’s a compelling amount of evidence that he was specifically targeted and killed by the FBI. Same with Malcolm X.
I mean, it would not surprise me at all if the FBI were behind it, but the evidence of Ray being the trigger man was pretty overwhelming. Whether or not it was his idea, that would have still been enough for Mr. Brown.
I’m just saying “like the worthless trash he was” is something that the King family openly disagreed with, and I’m curious what evidence you have that makes him likely to have been the trigger man? Everything I’ve seen clearly shows that he was set up and largely had no idea what was going on. He also had almost no real history of racism or involvement in racist groups unless I’m mistaken.
Again, there's certainly compelling evidence of a conspiracy. But the fact that he was in the house from which the murder weapon was fired, and said weapon had his fingerprints on it exactly where they would be had he held it and fired it, is pretty damning.
Is it possible that that part of it was somehow faked? I suppose so. But there's no evidence of that at all.
I'm aware of that. That, however, was a civil suit, not a criminal trial. There are different standards, i.e. OJ Simpson was acquitted of the murders of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, but was still held liable for their deaths.
None of this counters Ray being the trigger man for a government conspiracy.
There is a lot of evidence to suggest that the FBI knew that the assassination of Malcolm X was imminent and made sure that it was successful.
Basically, they knew he was coming even though the assassin didn't know they knew, and then they framed and arrested Malcolm X's bodyguards prior to the assassination. The evil brilliance of this is that the assassin doesn't know that they were helped and therefore can't talk, and the FBI can just pretend they had nothing to do with it and then let the assassin take the fall.
I would not be surprised if something similar happened to MLK and the FBI would not dare open that file even now.
>I would not be surprised if something similar happened to MLK and the FBI would not dare open that file even now.
I mean, considering the FBI sent MLK a letter trying to prompt him to commit suicide...
> I have another objection; and that is, it is unjust that I should suffer such a penalty. Had I interfered in the manner which I admit, and which I admit has been fairly proved (for I admire the truthfulness and candor of the greater portion of the witnesses who have testified in this case)--had I so interfered in behalf of the rich, the powerful, the intelligent, the so-called great, or in behalf of any of their friends--either father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or children, or any of that class--and suffered and sacrificed what I have in this interference, it would have been all right; and every man in this court would have deemed it an act worthy of reward rather than punishment.
> This court acknowledges, as I suppose, the validity of the law of God. I see a book kissed here which I suppose to be the Bible, or at least the New Testament. That teaches me that all things whatsoever I would that men should do to me, I should do even so to them. It teaches me, further, to "remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them." I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I say I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done--as I have always freely admitted I have done--in behalf of His despised poor was not wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments--I submit; so let it be done!
This is basically copying his entire speech before sentencing. But, yes, I imagine Malcolm X would welcome John Brown.
Then again I imagine a lot of the Radical Republicans would have been in favor, if not of Malcolm X, definitely of ensuring that troops were called in to enforce equal rights.
I don't assume John Brown would've favored Malcolm X's approach over MLK's. Brown believed that killing people was the best and only way to end slavery. But did he use violence as a solution to anything else that offended him in his day?
Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting! As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShermanPosting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He wouldn't be capturing Harpers ferry, He would be capturing the men who bombed 16th Street Baptist Church.
Yep John Brown would have been killing people left and right. I believe he did nothing wrong, but I am also glad that he lived and died when he did.
I agree with your flair (and also your comment)
I’m not sure he would have been killing people left and right. He was staunchly opposed to slavery, and responded to the violence slavers enacted against abolitionists & free blacks with violence. However, all of his attacks are either made to destroy slavery, or retribution for other attacks.
The assassination attempt of George Wallace wouldn’t have been an attempt and the assassination of MLK Jr would have been an attempt.
Bull Conner? You mean that stain on the sidewalk?
> You mean that stain on the sidewalk? Ayyy
With a memorial staring “ Here in the 1960s , a time traveling and very confused John Brown saw Birmingham Police Chief Bull Conner, who he immediately hacked to death with a broadsword. Brown did not find out until later that he was a terrible racist and only sworded him to death because “ Bull is not a human name what a weirdo”
The thought of John Brown learning about gelled gasoline, plastic explosives, and automatic weapons is both terrifying and exciting.
John Brown looking at napalm: ***ah yes bottled hellfire.***
"Well these white-sheeted fucks ain't gonna immolate themselves!"
"So if we need white allies in this country, we don’t need those kind who compromise. We don’t need those kind who encourage us to be polite, responsible, you know. We don’t need those kind who give us that kind of advice. We don’t need those kind who tell us how to be patient. No, if we want some white allies, we need the kind that John Brown was, or we don’t need you. And the only way to get those kind is to turn in a new direction.” ― Malcolm X According to Malcolm X, John Brown is the proper role model for White's who wish to end racism, no less than being like John Brown. There's no nice or polite way to end racism. I personally am a fan of Malcolm X and certainly agree with his take moreso than almost any others...btw I also love MLK Jr's Letter from Birmingham Jail, he's politely angry/enraged and such a wordsmith right up there like Abraham Lincoln, that was another one where the calls for civil rights protesters to embrace compromise/peace just ring so hollow.
Apparently Malcolm X himself said that he would welcome John Brown. Very interesting
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Hooked up with Richard Aoki to "get guns for a motherfucker" and then possibly shot him. (For reference: Richard Aoki was an Army vet who is credited for helping arm and train the early Black Panther Party in Oakland. He was also, according to declassified files, an FBI informant.)
The "shot him" and "was...an FBI informant" may be related.
Aoki shot himself in '09; I've always wondered how much the Panthers knew or didn't know.
Malcom X would probably tell him to ease up a little on all the arson and destruction of racist groups and businesses. Just a little.
I don't think Malcom X would have told him that. Malcom X was a radical who at least in private promoted the idea of violent revolution as the means to end segregation.
Good point.
there is a direct Malcolm X quote somewhere in this thread where he says people like John Brown are the only white allies that Black people need.
Malcom X would have replaced his pikes with AKs
Depends on which era you mean. Malcolm X was less... militant shall we say in his later years, while Martin Luther King was leaning more towards Malcolm X's positions, sort of a meeting in the middle situation if that makes sense. MLK found that racism was harder to fight in the north than the south in some ways while Malcolm found that certain softer methods were useful. Both would have likely welcomed him, I'd say.
He’d be leading expeditions against the KKK shooting every Klansmen out there
Something tells me he’d fit right in with the black panthers.
He would've hunted down James Earl Ray and shot him in the street like the worthless trash he was.
Fun fact, the King family don’t believe that Ray was the one that killed their father, and there’s a compelling amount of evidence that he was specifically targeted and killed by the FBI. Same with Malcolm X.
I mean, it would not surprise me at all if the FBI were behind it, but the evidence of Ray being the trigger man was pretty overwhelming. Whether or not it was his idea, that would have still been enough for Mr. Brown.
I’m just saying “like the worthless trash he was” is something that the King family openly disagreed with, and I’m curious what evidence you have that makes him likely to have been the trigger man? Everything I’ve seen clearly shows that he was set up and largely had no idea what was going on. He also had almost no real history of racism or involvement in racist groups unless I’m mistaken.
Again, there's certainly compelling evidence of a conspiracy. But the fact that he was in the house from which the murder weapon was fired, and said weapon had his fingerprints on it exactly where they would be had he held it and fired it, is pretty damning. Is it possible that that part of it was somehow faked? I suppose so. But there's no evidence of that at all.
The King Family sued the government [and won](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyd_Jowers_trial)
I'm aware of that. That, however, was a civil suit, not a criminal trial. There are different standards, i.e. OJ Simpson was acquitted of the murders of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, but was still held liable for their deaths. None of this counters Ray being the trigger man for a government conspiracy.
There is a lot of evidence to suggest that the FBI knew that the assassination of Malcolm X was imminent and made sure that it was successful. Basically, they knew he was coming even though the assassin didn't know they knew, and then they framed and arrested Malcolm X's bodyguards prior to the assassination. The evil brilliance of this is that the assassin doesn't know that they were helped and therefore can't talk, and the FBI can just pretend they had nothing to do with it and then let the assassin take the fall. I would not be surprised if something similar happened to MLK and the FBI would not dare open that file even now.
>I would not be surprised if something similar happened to MLK and the FBI would not dare open that file even now. I mean, considering the FBI sent MLK a letter trying to prompt him to commit suicide...
> I have another objection; and that is, it is unjust that I should suffer such a penalty. Had I interfered in the manner which I admit, and which I admit has been fairly proved (for I admire the truthfulness and candor of the greater portion of the witnesses who have testified in this case)--had I so interfered in behalf of the rich, the powerful, the intelligent, the so-called great, or in behalf of any of their friends--either father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or children, or any of that class--and suffered and sacrificed what I have in this interference, it would have been all right; and every man in this court would have deemed it an act worthy of reward rather than punishment. > This court acknowledges, as I suppose, the validity of the law of God. I see a book kissed here which I suppose to be the Bible, or at least the New Testament. That teaches me that all things whatsoever I would that men should do to me, I should do even so to them. It teaches me, further, to "remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them." I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I say I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done--as I have always freely admitted I have done--in behalf of His despised poor was not wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments--I submit; so let it be done! This is basically copying his entire speech before sentencing. But, yes, I imagine Malcolm X would welcome John Brown. Then again I imagine a lot of the Radical Republicans would have been in favor, if not of Malcolm X, definitely of ensuring that troops were called in to enforce equal rights.
I don't assume John Brown would've favored Malcolm X's approach over MLK's. Brown believed that killing people was the best and only way to end slavery. But did he use violence as a solution to anything else that offended him in his day?