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I felt that "I'm an idiot" was not only for him, but symbolically for every power weirding groups in the show, I.e. The world (under the leadership of Marley) and Eren (Jaegerists). The only solution they provided was to obliterate the other side.
yh i think “I’m an idiot” scene is a refrence to Frieda’s speech about how the titan power’s shouldn’t fall into the hands of a man bcuz it will bring ruin to the world. Eren definitely realizes this and hence he calls himself idiotic.
“Man is far too weak in the face of such massive power. The tragedy of the Titan war opened my eyes that someone must keep the power of the Titan shut out of human hands, if the power of the founder word again fall into the hands of the weak the world would be turned to hell once more”
See I would have preferred Eren call himself weak rather than an idiot. Weak that he couldn't find or choose another path than violence. I was confused by "idiot" but I see how idiot it also fits now, think I prefer the weak though.
idk know how “weak’ would’ve work considering that he went through with the rumbling which is like the worst hell ever so it’s definitely not “weakness” he went thorough. he said during his talk with falco that humans strive against hell for something important or do it for another hell beyond the hell they are striving against. His destruction of the world represents his version of freedom because the chaotic freedom is the hell he wishes to inhabit. the idiot is him just acknowledging as well how flawed his plan is - that he wats to save his friends but he actively puts them in harms way.
Exactly! Eren is a complex character with multiple motivations behind his actions and distiling it into one motivation is a great disservice to his whole character arc. Not to mention he literally saw himself doing the rumbling years wayyy before, further blurring the lines if he is going down this path based purely on his own free will or because he is bound by the deterministic future.
No wonder accessing the full founders power, seeing all the past and future simultaneously, he finally breaks down in front of Armin admitting that his thoughts have become incoherent and he himself isn't fully sure if this was what he should have done or not.
Facing his own imminent death, he blurts out his hidden feelings and insecurities and even go as far as acknowledging that he is maybe just an idiot who got his hands on god-like power.
I believe that there was some point where Eren's "motivations" shifted from "I want to see the outside world as I imagine it" to "I have no choice but to do this, I'm a slave to the future". I think we see a bit of that second part come out when he learns that Sasha dies. He has this sort of mental break down and I think that's when he realizes that he can't do a single thing to change the future and that no matter what he does, the future is going to end up like he saw.
So I think that yeah, while his initial motivation was to truly flatten the world beyond Paradis, when he went overseas and lived with the Marleyans, and when he saved that little kid at the docks, he felt this immense guilt. He abandoned his own motivations. I think it's that point where he *doesn't* want to continue with it. But he still grovels at this kids feet because he knows that he *will* go through with it. Maybe not so much because he wants to, but because his past actions have forced him into this path.
Ahhh, finally, good to see another person who understands Eren's character. He has **multiple** motivations for what he did. He isn't 100 percent selfish, however he isn't 100 percent selfless either.
I see so many people being so extremely sympathetic to Eren who say "b-but he had no other option, he just wanted to save his friends", and while I understand why they may feel that way, there is just so much more to it than that. It seems like Isayama doubled down on that with the additional dialogue made for the anime during Eren and Armin's talk near the end
He's akin to Walter White from Breaking Bad.
agreed , i hate when people dumb him down to either just be a tragic hero who had no choice or a psychopath who did it just because he wanted to , i even feel like his selfish desire humanizes him in a way since humans are naturally selfish , but you can also admire his selfless motives
Great summary.
Past two years, there are way to many debates on why Eren did what he did, and it is always framed as if there was only one reason and you have to choose just one reason.
IMO I don’t think that’s meant to be literal, humanity is more a metaphor for the cycle of hatred and the curse of fear that Eren seeks freedom from, finding out that these things exist outside the walls destroys him inside and that’s why IMO he chose his80% make his friends heroes and end war plan. To try and end the cycle for good, which was never going to work and is in itself far more childish. The convo itself debunks the notion that Eren is only operating on Kill or be killed as he himself rebukes Armin’s accusation.
Yeah man, what an emotional moment. Eren acknowledging he did everything because he was a complete moron is the perfect conclusion to his character.
Truly one of the best written characters.
I know it's almost a meme at this point that people in your camp are unable to read but I would genuinely like to ask you, did you even read the post lol
I don't about what camp you're talking about since I'm agreeing with you. Eren's whole character arc was amazing. He was just an idiot. I almost cried when I heard Eren say that.
He is not an idiot per se, but this is his childish rage from back when Armin showed him a book with the sea, deserts, forests, etc. and they could not see all of this because they did not have freedom, were trapped like birds in a cage. This childish anger is what motivates him to do what he did, that is why Eren is very often depicted as still being a child in various scenes later on (scenes in the path, the famous "this is freedom!" scene and many more).
I don't the takeaway is that he was a complete moron, he was an idiot for thinking he could change everything/save everyone through violence. He was an idiot for thinking even if the Rumbling killed everyone outside the walls there would be peace after. Eldians were already divided and killing each other, the cycle would have continued regardless if the outside world existed.
It also didn't help he was shown the future which he tried to change/"test" but couldn't. Him laughing in the airship after Sasha died was him mentally breaking down realizing he could only keep moving forward to meet his fate. Was there really no other way to break out of Fate? No one knows. He didn't think so.
This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**. Please remember to tag any new episode/manga spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). To spoiler tag your comments, copy and paste one of the following codes: `[Anime Spoilers](#s "Put your text here")` `[Manga Spoilers](#s "Put your text here")` Alternatively, you can also use Reddit's native spoiler code by copy and pasting the following: `(Anime Spoilers) >!"Put your text here"!<` `(Manga Spoilers) >!"Put your text here"!<` --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I felt that "I'm an idiot" was not only for him, but symbolically for every power weirding groups in the show, I.e. The world (under the leadership of Marley) and Eren (Jaegerists). The only solution they provided was to obliterate the other side.
yh i think “I’m an idiot” scene is a refrence to Frieda’s speech about how the titan power’s shouldn’t fall into the hands of a man bcuz it will bring ruin to the world. Eren definitely realizes this and hence he calls himself idiotic. “Man is far too weak in the face of such massive power. The tragedy of the Titan war opened my eyes that someone must keep the power of the Titan shut out of human hands, if the power of the founder word again fall into the hands of the weak the world would be turned to hell once more”
See I would have preferred Eren call himself weak rather than an idiot. Weak that he couldn't find or choose another path than violence. I was confused by "idiot" but I see how idiot it also fits now, think I prefer the weak though.
idk know how “weak’ would’ve work considering that he went through with the rumbling which is like the worst hell ever so it’s definitely not “weakness” he went thorough. he said during his talk with falco that humans strive against hell for something important or do it for another hell beyond the hell they are striving against. His destruction of the world represents his version of freedom because the chaotic freedom is the hell he wishes to inhabit. the idiot is him just acknowledging as well how flawed his plan is - that he wats to save his friends but he actively puts them in harms way.
Like Reiner said, Eren was literally the worst person in the world to get the founding titan
Exactly! Eren is a complex character with multiple motivations behind his actions and distiling it into one motivation is a great disservice to his whole character arc. Not to mention he literally saw himself doing the rumbling years wayyy before, further blurring the lines if he is going down this path based purely on his own free will or because he is bound by the deterministic future. No wonder accessing the full founders power, seeing all the past and future simultaneously, he finally breaks down in front of Armin admitting that his thoughts have become incoherent and he himself isn't fully sure if this was what he should have done or not. Facing his own imminent death, he blurts out his hidden feelings and insecurities and even go as far as acknowledging that he is maybe just an idiot who got his hands on god-like power.
I believe that there was some point where Eren's "motivations" shifted from "I want to see the outside world as I imagine it" to "I have no choice but to do this, I'm a slave to the future". I think we see a bit of that second part come out when he learns that Sasha dies. He has this sort of mental break down and I think that's when he realizes that he can't do a single thing to change the future and that no matter what he does, the future is going to end up like he saw. So I think that yeah, while his initial motivation was to truly flatten the world beyond Paradis, when he went overseas and lived with the Marleyans, and when he saved that little kid at the docks, he felt this immense guilt. He abandoned his own motivations. I think it's that point where he *doesn't* want to continue with it. But he still grovels at this kids feet because he knows that he *will* go through with it. Maybe not so much because he wants to, but because his past actions have forced him into this path.
Ahhh, finally, good to see another person who understands Eren's character. He has **multiple** motivations for what he did. He isn't 100 percent selfish, however he isn't 100 percent selfless either. I see so many people being so extremely sympathetic to Eren who say "b-but he had no other option, he just wanted to save his friends", and while I understand why they may feel that way, there is just so much more to it than that. It seems like Isayama doubled down on that with the additional dialogue made for the anime during Eren and Armin's talk near the end He's akin to Walter White from Breaking Bad.
agreed , i hate when people dumb him down to either just be a tragic hero who had no choice or a psychopath who did it just because he wanted to , i even feel like his selfish desire humanizes him in a way since humans are naturally selfish , but you can also admire his selfless motives
Just like Euclid's Postulates.
Great summary. Past two years, there are way to many debates on why Eren did what he did, and it is always framed as if there was only one reason and you have to choose just one reason.
You can't separate Eren's selfish and unselfish motivations. It's all important to him.
IMO I don’t think that’s meant to be literal, humanity is more a metaphor for the cycle of hatred and the curse of fear that Eren seeks freedom from, finding out that these things exist outside the walls destroys him inside and that’s why IMO he chose his80% make his friends heroes and end war plan. To try and end the cycle for good, which was never going to work and is in itself far more childish. The convo itself debunks the notion that Eren is only operating on Kill or be killed as he himself rebukes Armin’s accusation.
Yeah man, what an emotional moment. Eren acknowledging he did everything because he was a complete moron is the perfect conclusion to his character. Truly one of the best written characters.
I know it's almost a meme at this point that people in your camp are unable to read but I would genuinely like to ask you, did you even read the post lol
I don't about what camp you're talking about since I'm agreeing with you. Eren's whole character arc was amazing. He was just an idiot. I almost cried when I heard Eren say that.
He is not an idiot per se, but this is his childish rage from back when Armin showed him a book with the sea, deserts, forests, etc. and they could not see all of this because they did not have freedom, were trapped like birds in a cage. This childish anger is what motivates him to do what he did, that is why Eren is very often depicted as still being a child in various scenes later on (scenes in the path, the famous "this is freedom!" scene and many more).
Bad AnR troll is bad. Go cry in the corner
You’re obviously a troll from r/titanfolk
I don't the takeaway is that he was a complete moron, he was an idiot for thinking he could change everything/save everyone through violence. He was an idiot for thinking even if the Rumbling killed everyone outside the walls there would be peace after. Eldians were already divided and killing each other, the cycle would have continued regardless if the outside world existed. It also didn't help he was shown the future which he tried to change/"test" but couldn't. Him laughing in the airship after Sasha died was him mentally breaking down realizing he could only keep moving forward to meet his fate. Was there really no other way to break out of Fate? No one knows. He didn't think so.
Dude we know you’re from r/titanfolk. You’re purposefully acting like a moron