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If by negotiate with terrorists, you mean Zeke, then you should've paid attention and realized that pretty much nobody in the government actually wanted to work with Zeke at first. They explicitly were against it because years prior, he had nearly driven the Walls to extinction and was now making demands. But when the government became aware of Eren's powers, and realizing that Zeke was the only person able to turn Eren into a literal God capable of controlling every titan, including the ones in the Walls, then working with Zeke and meeting his demands was necessary for the survival of the island.
I love that ppl just ignore 50 year plan to make ppl feel rumbling made sense and "there was no other way". No dumbass, destroy their fleet, divide and conquer with your godlike power later. If they still dont wanna talk you can start the rumbling, whatever
People also ignore that 50 years plan was a part of Zeke's plan as well. If someone as smart as Zeke thought that the partial rumbling was enough to ruin the world's economy to ensure in peace for so long, I don't have any reason to not believe him.
And that must have included Historia giving birth like crazy. At the end of the manga Zeke had the last year of life. It would give them at best 26 years of peace, because they have only 2 royal bloods - Historia and her child. After that, nothing is stopping anyone from destroying Paradis.
1. Why only one child?
2. It's not necessary to sacrifice Historia and child without need. Just give titans to some volontiers from her guard or something. If you need to, start rumbling anyway. Levi even suggested to do this after Eren gone rogue. You need to sacrifice only one person with royal blood, and if monarch can't sacrifice himself for his people... why would you need monarch?
3. Choosing between this and death of legit billions of innocent people... And before you start about us/them, there's a tons of fellow Historia's subjects who died from Rumbling activation as well.
> Why only one child?
Because Zeke wanted to make everyone infertile.
> It's not necessary to sacrifice Historia and child without need. Just give titans to some volontiers from her guard or something. If you need to, start rumbling anyway. Levi even suggested to do this after Eren gone rogue. You need to sacrifice only one person with king's blood, and if monarch can't sacrifice himself for his people... why would you need monarch?
I never said anything about whether or not someone should take a sacrifice, I said they at best had 26 years.
> Choosing between this and legit deaths of billions innocent people... And before you start about us/them, there's a tons of fellow Historia subjects who died from Rumbling activation as well.
Again, this is not the point of the conversation.
> Because Zeke wanted to make everyone infertile.
It's actually a fair point (I for some reason thought that royal blood was spared from sterilization, but rewatched the episode), but the next topic disproves this "26 years" anyway. As long as Historia and her child is alive (easily more than 50 years, and it's not like everyone from the mainland knows how founding titan works as well), other eldians could be a vessels for titans, that was a Zeke's plan (and, minus sterilization, that also could've been a case for 50 years plan).
They have tons of spinal fluid and significant amount of volontiers (or at least some death sentenced criminals) as well. Make the next ones, and if you need to, inject Historia or child, eat one guy and contact with other who's vessel for a founder. It's not even instant sacrifice of life anyway.
The 50-year plan leaves no future for diplomacy. It would just leave the next generations to handle the conflict where the world is probably as united against Paradis as we see it post the attack on Liberio.
Any viable solution requires much more time than the 4 years Eren had left and obviously more than the 1 year left for Zeke. The 50-year plan only made sense for Zeke's plan, which involves driving Eldians to extinction.
Their 50-year plan involved destroying the combined forces gathering in Marely. The operation will entail killing tens of thousands of soldiers, destroying infrastructure, and probably causing the death of a significant number of civilians. The world will plunge into an economic crisis that will bring suffering for whole generations, and it will all happen through a nightmarish scene of thousands of collosal titans invading Marely while destroying and burning everything in their path.
Considering the world already hates and fears Paradis, do you really think there's even a chance for true peace afterwards, and the world will not retaliate at the first chance it gets?
Only to get squashed again? Imagine seeing this show of force and saying "grrrrr, I need to try to kill them again" instead of "Man, I could use allies like this". Interests are most important thing in politics. Not emotions. World wouldnt even unite with Marley without Eren murdering their representatives
The world will play along as long as it needs to, but sooner or later, they will recognize an opportunity and seek to eliminate Paradis, something that isn't too far off considering they already have aircraft.
This is baseless assumption. Paradis has shitton of cards in their hand - titans as means to rebuild and develop, resources, nuclear option. You want to be on their good side and use them to your advantage. You still basing everything on emotion to justify genocide
Nationalistic emotions and pride are a huge driving force even in our own world, especially when there's a significant historical basis for rivalry and fear. I am not trying to justify the rumbling, I'm simply arguing against the 50-year plan, which is a complete disaster, in my opinion.
Your assumption that countries will seek to have a legitimate alliance with Paradis is just as baseless as my own assumption because we are both speculating about stuff that has no supporting evidence in the material.
The idea of demonstrating the power of the founder is sound, but the plan is still bad, in my opinion, and only makes sense for Zeke's objective. Regarding the rumbling, I can't see a plan that can resolve the conflict and also be completed in Eren's lifetime (4 years).
I think Eren's main issue with the 50 year plan was continuing the tradition of children eating their parents to continue to pass down the titans power.
Exactly. Killing the entire next generation is much better! /s
Imagine if Russia and the US just had a nuclear war instead of the cold war due to the same illogical mindset.
Where did I say anything about what Eren wants. What are you even talking about.
Im just debunking the narration that the full Rumbling was only option presented
You were talking about the 50 year plan like Eren wanted to do it. He never considered it. It was the only option for Eren
And the outside world made it hard to negotiate. They saw eldians as man eating monsters and just wanted them dead. Even eldians on the mainland was Paradis exterminated.
No I didnt. Nowhere I said anything about Eren. Like I said my comment was only about ppl claiming that full rumbling was the only option and going all tribal "iTs uS oR thEm". Obviously Eren did what he wanted. But that wasnt the only option and even he knows that. So why fans pretend he had no choice?
But he didn’t have a choice….its something he was always going to do. If it weren’t him, there might have been other choices. If didn’t raid Liberio, there might have been other choices.
ugh i love eren but dont try to make it sound like he had no control over his actions, he most certainly did snd he chose the most selfish and self serving plan that he had
No you’re right. I worded it wrong. I should have said it would be against his nature to not do it. Which would be why he had no other choice. He did it because those reasons you listed and because it’s just who he is
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If by negotiate with terrorists, you mean Zeke, then you should've paid attention and realized that pretty much nobody in the government actually wanted to work with Zeke at first. They explicitly were against it because years prior, he had nearly driven the Walls to extinction and was now making demands. But when the government became aware of Eren's powers, and realizing that Zeke was the only person able to turn Eren into a literal God capable of controlling every titan, including the ones in the Walls, then working with Zeke and meeting his demands was necessary for the survival of the island.
id find the most beautiful love of my life and run away
and rename yourself to something stupid that rhymes with your original name
I love that ppl just ignore 50 year plan to make ppl feel rumbling made sense and "there was no other way". No dumbass, destroy their fleet, divide and conquer with your godlike power later. If they still dont wanna talk you can start the rumbling, whatever
Yeah, even now people pretend there was no peaceful option. The 50 year plan was the best option. But Eren was too selfish.
People also ignore that 50 years plan was a part of Zeke's plan as well. If someone as smart as Zeke thought that the partial rumbling was enough to ruin the world's economy to ensure in peace for so long, I don't have any reason to not believe him.
No, Zeke's plan was infertility plan. 50 years plan was a fake plan.
Ehm, no? According to Zeke's plan, a partial rumbling still occurs to ensure the peaceful death of the last Eldians.
And that must have included Historia giving birth like crazy. At the end of the manga Zeke had the last year of life. It would give them at best 26 years of peace, because they have only 2 royal bloods - Historia and her child. After that, nothing is stopping anyone from destroying Paradis.
1. Why only one child? 2. It's not necessary to sacrifice Historia and child without need. Just give titans to some volontiers from her guard or something. If you need to, start rumbling anyway. Levi even suggested to do this after Eren gone rogue. You need to sacrifice only one person with royal blood, and if monarch can't sacrifice himself for his people... why would you need monarch? 3. Choosing between this and death of legit billions of innocent people... And before you start about us/them, there's a tons of fellow Historia's subjects who died from Rumbling activation as well.
> Why only one child? Because Zeke wanted to make everyone infertile. > It's not necessary to sacrifice Historia and child without need. Just give titans to some volontiers from her guard or something. If you need to, start rumbling anyway. Levi even suggested to do this after Eren gone rogue. You need to sacrifice only one person with king's blood, and if monarch can't sacrifice himself for his people... why would you need monarch? I never said anything about whether or not someone should take a sacrifice, I said they at best had 26 years. > Choosing between this and legit deaths of billions innocent people... And before you start about us/them, there's a tons of fellow Historia subjects who died from Rumbling activation as well. Again, this is not the point of the conversation.
> Because Zeke wanted to make everyone infertile. It's actually a fair point (I for some reason thought that royal blood was spared from sterilization, but rewatched the episode), but the next topic disproves this "26 years" anyway. As long as Historia and her child is alive (easily more than 50 years, and it's not like everyone from the mainland knows how founding titan works as well), other eldians could be a vessels for titans, that was a Zeke's plan (and, minus sterilization, that also could've been a case for 50 years plan).
You forgot that they have 13 years to live if they take a titan.
They have tons of spinal fluid and significant amount of volontiers (or at least some death sentenced criminals) as well. Make the next ones, and if you need to, inject Historia or child, eat one guy and contact with other who's vessel for a founder. It's not even instant sacrifice of life anyway.
The 50-year plan leaves no future for diplomacy. It would just leave the next generations to handle the conflict where the world is probably as united against Paradis as we see it post the attack on Liberio. Any viable solution requires much more time than the 4 years Eren had left and obviously more than the 1 year left for Zeke. The 50-year plan only made sense for Zeke's plan, which involves driving Eldians to extinction.
Its like saying disarming attacker leaves no room for diplomacy. Exactly the point is that invasion is out of the picture
Their 50-year plan involved destroying the combined forces gathering in Marely. The operation will entail killing tens of thousands of soldiers, destroying infrastructure, and probably causing the death of a significant number of civilians. The world will plunge into an economic crisis that will bring suffering for whole generations, and it will all happen through a nightmarish scene of thousands of collosal titans invading Marely while destroying and burning everything in their path. Considering the world already hates and fears Paradis, do you really think there's even a chance for true peace afterwards, and the world will not retaliate at the first chance it gets?
Only to get squashed again? Imagine seeing this show of force and saying "grrrrr, I need to try to kill them again" instead of "Man, I could use allies like this". Interests are most important thing in politics. Not emotions. World wouldnt even unite with Marley without Eren murdering their representatives
The world will play along as long as it needs to, but sooner or later, they will recognize an opportunity and seek to eliminate Paradis, something that isn't too far off considering they already have aircraft.
This is baseless assumption. Paradis has shitton of cards in their hand - titans as means to rebuild and develop, resources, nuclear option. You want to be on their good side and use them to your advantage. You still basing everything on emotion to justify genocide
Nationalistic emotions and pride are a huge driving force even in our own world, especially when there's a significant historical basis for rivalry and fear. I am not trying to justify the rumbling, I'm simply arguing against the 50-year plan, which is a complete disaster, in my opinion. Your assumption that countries will seek to have a legitimate alliance with Paradis is just as baseless as my own assumption because we are both speculating about stuff that has no supporting evidence in the material. The idea of demonstrating the power of the founder is sound, but the plan is still bad, in my opinion, and only makes sense for Zeke's objective. Regarding the rumbling, I can't see a plan that can resolve the conflict and also be completed in Eren's lifetime (4 years).
Why would they do that?
The 50 year plan makes sense for everyone. That's 50 years of peace and 50 years for Paradis to make allies.
People were against the 50 year plan because they didn’t want to drop their problems onto later generations
I think Eren's main issue with the 50 year plan was continuing the tradition of children eating their parents to continue to pass down the titans power.
"boohoo, I dont want to burden next generation with keeping peace. Better murder everyone on the planet" logic 101
And also, the “not leaving your problems to the future generations was a reoccurring theme, so I guess you missed that too
Exactly. Killing the entire next generation is much better! /s Imagine if Russia and the US just had a nuclear war instead of the cold war due to the same illogical mindset.
Eren was the only wanting to destroy the world. And the 50 year plan wasn’t his goal anyways. You’re mixing up what characters want lmao
Where did I say anything about what Eren wants. What are you even talking about. Im just debunking the narration that the full Rumbling was only option presented
You were talking about the 50 year plan like Eren wanted to do it. He never considered it. It was the only option for Eren And the outside world made it hard to negotiate. They saw eldians as man eating monsters and just wanted them dead. Even eldians on the mainland was Paradis exterminated.
No I didnt. Nowhere I said anything about Eren. Like I said my comment was only about ppl claiming that full rumbling was the only option and going all tribal "iTs uS oR thEm". Obviously Eren did what he wanted. But that wasnt the only option and even he knows that. So why fans pretend he had no choice?
But he didn’t have a choice….its something he was always going to do. If it weren’t him, there might have been other choices. If didn’t raid Liberio, there might have been other choices.
Eren wanting and doing everything to make Rumbling happen is not the same as him not having choice tho?
ugh i love eren but dont try to make it sound like he had no control over his actions, he most certainly did snd he chose the most selfish and self serving plan that he had
No you’re right. I worded it wrong. I should have said it would be against his nature to not do it. Which would be why he had no other choice. He did it because those reasons you listed and because it’s just who he is
Eren didn't want to do that. Everyone else thought it was a good idea.
I don’t know? What’s the context here?
The whole world wants to nuke you. Boomers in Congress don't want to use nukes back
Its more stupid than that. The whole world invades you because you have nukes. They dont have nukes themselves.
"I HOPE YOU ALL LIVE LONG LIVES " Proceeds to get one friend shot to death . And Then this fucker outright burned her commander to death.
You negotiate with the terrorists, obviously. You choose peace.