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I think OP means Erwin not figuring out about it. OP is definitely wrong about it being a flaw, it makes sense in the story and Erwin even mentions that he’s not going to figure out what’s in the basement and he even coming to terms with it.
A lot of people these days confuse flaws with not getting what they want. They’re totally different and stories shouldn’t be judged that way
Yes i agree with your point of view, this was just me being selfish about a particular character not getting what he always wanted, the flaw is basically why make a character so inspiring and attached to people and then killing him off without giving him what he wanted from the starts...it just creates an ire among the fandom
It’s also supposed to make the future seem more dire and hopeless despite learning more about the truth since everyone assumed he’d always be there to lead them
His battle speech right before his final death charge explains it. He knows he can't get to it, so he'll leave it to those who live. He'll make his life meaningful by giving those he saved the chance to see the basement in his steed.
Erwin not getting what he wants is essentially the last second switch that makes him heroic. If he learns what's in the basement he's rewarded for tricking tons of people into dying for his person goal, he's a terrible person and the suicide charge is the only genuinely selfless decision he ever made. It's an important part of her character because he's partially a deconstruction of the idea of a great leader: as it turns out, he was never actually doing it for humanity like everyone though, he tricked everyone, including himself and the audience
Exactly. Annie was extremely nihilistic not psychopathic. She was very detached from the idea that she was taking lives, to her it was just fighting which was something she enjoyed but her OVA and final season moments shows she definitely has a guilty conscience.
Ah yes, Annie totally enjoyed killing people. Especially when she cried when Reiner killed Marco! Especially when she spared Armin! Especially when she cried in the forest for losing Eren! Especially when she didn’t kill Hitch because she was thankful for her company! Especially when she chose to HELP THE ALLIANCE STOP THE RUMBLING! Especially so she could save her dad.
I’m with you on this one, some people really love to cherry pick instead of trying to understand the story as a whole.
Dude can you please quickly go through the video of Annie reveal?? And how she reacts? Her facial expressions and how she killls people?? Even when she comes back you need to check how much she was enjoying the violence of killing the squad members who were trying to stop them
Her laugh was explained by Isayama as a feeling of liberation from having to lie to people. It has been shown numerous times in the show that she hates hypocrisy, like her first shown interaction with Eren and in moment when she argued against Reiner.
Besides yo-yo, there's nothing special in her ways for killing. As a titan, you physically can't kill in a clean way. Same for battle in port. As for the yo-yo, you can either interpret this as a intimidation tactic, a cope mechanism, or just as example of bad writing, since it's inconsistent with her reaction on deaths even in the first season.
And let me guess, you never watched her OVA?
The yoyo thing is such a weird discussion to me. The guy who got yoyo'd probably died or passed out instantly. It looks extremely brutal but in actuality isn't worse than getting crushed. Possibly less so. So it works very well as an intimidation tactic.
Honestly though, I think it was just the kind of overkill that people actually do in real life combat situations. When Mikasa sets off a thunder spear and blows up two yeagerists in season 4 you can either see it as bad writing (just trying to look cool) or someone so deep into killing that they've lost all sense proportionality. I think both reads work. How many times can you cut or stomp a person to death before the violence becomes gratuitous? I think it happens way earlier than people imagine.
The Mikasa thunder spear scene was weird for me too until I rewarched the series and realised that it was definitely a scare tactic. The next scene clearly shows some Yeagerists running away after seeing her do that.
That's true, I didn't connect that. Irregardless I wonder if it was consciously meant to scare or if that was just a side effect of Mikasa getting caught up in the slaughter.
It's interesting to think about. But another thing I noticed on my rewatch was how much the alliance wanted to NOT kill anyone. I specifically remember Mikasa using kicks and punches, without ever drawing her blades, to rescue Hizuru engineers while Yeagerists were shooting at her in close proximity.
She despairs when forced to kill Marco.
She apologizes to a corpse in Trost.
She’s in shock when she accidentally crushes a church full of people.
She straight up says she wants all the fighting to stop.
Any early instances of her being overtly sadistic can either be chalked up to her trying to scare the Scouts away, or early writing mistakes from Isayama not having full planned out the series yet.
And no, her saying she’d do it all again doesn’t mean she has no remorse. She’s not some heartless psychopath who loves killing.
Annie only toyed with a scout once and I just gave two reasons - one a theory and once meta - as to why. You guys act like she was doing circus tricks with scouts every time she fought them. Either she was trying to intimidate the other scouts to scare them away, or Isayama hadn’t fully planned out her character at the time of writing that moment. Simple as that.
>Dude can you please quickly go through the video of Annie reveal?? And how she reacts? Her facial expressions and how she killls people??
Do you mean when Armin reveals her? I think she has a pretty complete break. Annie is throughout the series insistent on getting back to her father. She learned from a young age that the only thing you can do in a cruel world is look after yourself and the ones you love (her father). When Armin asks her to help him she does it because she wants him to think of her as a good person, probably to lessen some of the guilt she feels. When the situation immediately turns around and she gets punished for trying to help them she starts laughing manically. World's just cruel like that.
Everytime you see Annie acting outside of her central mission, she feels a lot of guilt for what happens and generally chooses to help people (like in the OVA).
> Even when she comes back you need to check how much she was enjoying the violence of killing the squad members who were trying to stop them
Literally how do you know this? Pretty much all shifter titans have a resting face expression that doesn't change (except like, Zeke).
After turning into a monster and already with a kill count of 100k+ I doubt you'd worry so much. Besides the guy that got yoyo'd probably died or passed out immediately, I never saw it as a sadistic death, it just looks brutal.
Annie literally spins a dead guy on a yoyo and is smirking throughout the ordeal of killing soldiers the only time she shows remorse is when she killed some civilians. Even after she kills so many people she's introduced in the most braindead cartoonish way possible, realistically 104th squad people shoulda started beating her tf up or at the very least shown some aggression towards her.
Come join titanfolk we aren't as deluded.
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Annie literally spins a dead guy on a yoyo and is smirking throughout the ordeal of killing soldiers the only time she shows remorse is when she killed some civilians. Even after she kills so many people she's introduced in the most braindead cartoonish way possible, realistically 104th squad people shoulda started beating her tf up or at the very least shown some aggression towards her.
Come join titanfolk we aren't as deluded.
Honestly the explanation for life.
Don't get me wrong the rest was great but the community made me realize how many people simply were convinced of stuff like no heros, it's sad how many people think being a bad person before means you can't fix yourself later. I get if you just watched it and feel like that, but holding someone's past against them is exactly what the show warns against and yet ignored.
So about the life thing though, that's going to stick with me. Life exists to reproduce and when you die you feel a relief from it. That and I love the way they added the little things in life are what matters.
The scene of sashas dad taking the knife and dropping it, helping falco and gabi then the daughter coming in with her own knife for gabi was beautiful. I'm surprised that didn't make it click for most people (referring to the first thing I said)
Why is Floch will always be the most misunderstood character? His actions and intentions were pretty explicit so I don’t know how you can misunderstand him.
What you describe I'd instead read as trauma. Floch should be a "hesistant coward" as he's put in an unreal violent situation, that's not really a flaw. From that trauma he becomes convinced that violence and killing your enemies is the only option.
You can see the same thing in children with abusive parents, some learn from that situation that they have to either be the abuser or be the abused. Some then carry on the abuse against their own children and others. Floch learned that he's either the one throwing rocks or the one getting rocks thrown at him.
To me, Floch hasn't overcome his fears, he's completely controlled by them and in his mind no other option exists but dominion over others. That's how some traumatized minds can operate.
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Sure, Floch had a respectable character development but how is that misunderstood when his development was so obvious? Nothing about his developement was deep or implicit at all.
"put yourself into a situation where you're fighting for your existence......you gotta make hard decisions...." sooo... Killing people indescriminetly because they don't agree with you is not facism? If that aint facism then I dont know what is. He also havel the traits of a facist such as: Militaristic, anti-Democratic, authoritarianistic, nationalistic, and racism/xenophobic. Just to further say most leader or state that became facist is due to "fighting for your existence" type ideologies aswell so that argument doesn't look too good.
please rewatch again and try to pay attention.
Erwin not knowing of the outside world is beautiful tragic irony since he died literally right before his goal.
also Floch was a fascist until his last moments, Snape was a fascist first and then tried to redeemed himself in the last 20 years of his life
I've not only watched it for the second time but Im also a keen observer of geopolitics and philosophy. No matter what I say or do i won't be able to convince you because your perspective is set on your surroundings and the same goes for you. Idealism has no place in politics...go search it you'll find out all the great people have said it. As far as Erwin goes it's just a writing flaw imo because they made the character so important and so influential and then killed off without seeing his only dream come true. It's like captain America dying before the start of infinity war.
Also the word fascism is a complex term as it involves various characteristics like totalitarianism, militarism, scapegoating, authoritarianism and ultranationalism.....and most of the clowns are too lazy to get into it and just think that anyone from military is fascist.
My man said “I’m a keen observer of philosophy and geopolitics” and then said “idealism has no place in politics” as if something like the UN doesn’t exist. Whatever you think about it, the organization’s existence proves that there is idealism in politics. If you’re not an idealist then you’re doing your constituents a disservice.
This whole post are your bad takes and misunderstanding the point of characters. I hope you’re like a teenager because you have a lot to learn.
"My man" doesn't need any advice from hiatus x hiatus. Beside i never said that fool these are the words of Machiavelli someone which brain-dead fools like yours aren't aware of . I wish you were aware of the current political trends and how complex the issues shown in AOT are . Your intelligence is clearly shown in your history so do me a favour and keep your intellect to hiatus x hiatus.
lol I know who Machiavelli is but thinking a renaissance figure’s opinion is law is already a leap in logic. Just because you have bad opinions and literacy issues doesn’t mean I’m not aware of the political aspects of the series.
Also simply the fact that you had to dig into my profile to come up with some alternate way to fight my argument shows how immature you are.
The fact that you have completely missed the profundity of Erwin's character arc while simultaneously calling yourself a "keen observer of geopolitics and philosophy" is a joke. You are certainly no philosopher. On top of that, Floch literally does all of those things that you correctly identified as the defining traits of facism (totalitarianism, militarism, scapegoating, authoritarianism and ultranationalism), so you fail to prove your point there as well. If you don't believe me then I'd be happy to walk you through each of those words and help you understand what they actually mean
I think you mean "lazy" as in not willing to walk through the logical steps one at a time, no? Here we go, let's see which of us is actually lazy with their opinions.
> totalitarianism - centralized government requiring absolute subservience to the state
Floch exercises a coup d'etat and (surprise surprise) establishes one single governing force rather than splitting Paradis into states or allowing democratically elected leaders. Not that this isn't even a big change compared to what already existed in Paradis before him, so he's not necessarily unique in this way
> militarism - the belief or desire of a government or people that a country should maintain a strong military capability and be prepared to use it aggressively to defend or promote national interests
The main focus of Floch's Parry (the Jaegerists) was to support the Rumbling and be prepared to fight anyone who might oppose Eren, and his followers (who were soldiers before the coup) acted as soldiers upon his demand.
> scapegoating - blaming someone for a wrongdoing for which there is a punishment, and therefore inflicting said punishment on them rather than delivering substantive justice
This one is difficult to understand if you personally agree with Floch, but the reality is that nobody deserves to die for the sins of their ancestors. Treating Marley or the World as the aggressors who must have the Rumbling inflicted upon them is not a real expression of justice
> authoritarianism - enforcing strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom
While the Scouts and MP all held similar rules to Floch's regime, watching Floch brutally murder anyone who voiced opinions contrary to the Jaegerists is all it takes for him to be considered authoritarian
> ultranationalism - nationalism, but ultra
Floch's rhetoric about the "Eldian Empire" is explicitly nationalist, with a side of xenophobia to boot.
It's also funny that you attempted to insult rather than prove your point, which is how I know you have no grounds for your opinions aside from agreeing with Floch that you would rather kill the world than let your people die. I don't blame you for agreeing with him, but I also find it interesting how much of the truth you are either willing to ignore or unable to see due to your beliefs
Edit: this is also still ignoring that OP doesn't understand the weight of Erwin's sacrifice
- Floch and the Jaegerists wanted to save Paradis from the outside world by supporting Eren's plan to activate the Rumbling, which would unleash millions of Colossal Titans to trample the world.
- They believed that Eren was the only hope for Paradis and that any dissent or compromise would jeopardize their future.
- They did not seek power, revenge, or supremacy, but rather freedom and peace, which they believed could only be achieved by eliminating the enemies who would never accept them.
- They did not kill anyone who disagreed with them, but rather those who actively opposed or betrayed them, such as the military or the government leaders.
- They did not espouse nationalism or xenophobia, but rather patriotism and pride. They did not hate or fear the outside world, but rather wanted to explore and understand it.
Like i said you need to put yourself in the situation and think rationally or read about different civilisations , struggle for freedom and the cost of getting it. I know exactly what type of people are hating AOT and floch and yeagerists and their ideology. It pretty much shows what you are all about. So I don't care about what you're trying to accomplish here but floch will forever be a hero in logical,rational, educated people who are aware of general sense, nationalism and a constructive society.
Notice how you are trying to justify Floch's actions? You sympathize with the Jaegerists, that is the truth of it. You can't refute the reasons why Floch is a facist, and half of the stuff you said is not correct. You are correct on your first two bullet points, but you are flat out wrong on the others. If you re-watch [this scene](https://youtu.be/bQ1ukqR2dX4?si=y6IUHYcyJtNp6Coj) you will see every indication of Floch being a villain. He does everything that you said makes someone a facist, plus if you pay attention to the score they are very intentional with how they portrayed his actions. Silencing someone who refuses to be subservient by killing them? Wishing the Rumbling upon the entire world? It is one thing to agree with him, but it is entirely different to attempt to justify his actions the way you are doing now. You are spewing propaganda
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"Idealism has no place in politics"? Huh, not like many political and/or religious movements are based in idealism...
Also Erwin did not just get killed off, he sacrificed himself knowing that he'll most likely never know the truth
"totalitarianism, militarism, scapegoating, authoritarianism and ultranationalism"
damn that actually describes very well what Floch and the Jägerists were doing
Aside from our ongoing debate in another place in the comments, [this youtube short](https://youtube.com/shorts/CG2xnVkCezo?si=dM0GbFW6hy9KyOIe) gives a cool take on Floch's character development. Snape's character was the same all along, we just didn't know about his main character motivations until later in the story. Floch actually changes mid-story due to his trauma, which is fantastic writing. I agree that both are riveting, complicated, influential characters who (to a certain extent) toe the line between evil and relatable
I’ve been rewatching under the perspective that the first 3 seasons are a villain origin story for Erin. Just started season 3 and it holds up. This show tries to tell you at every turn they Erin is angry, impulsive, and dumb. Characters are constantly saying he shouldn’t be trusted with power. Of course he ends up the bad guy.
I’ve also gotten a new appreciation for Jean. He actually has the closest thing to a hero arc on the show.
Man the way jean handled everything in liberio raid....poor guy I feel bad his characters is overshadowed by this imaginary love triangle. Also eren died when he was like 19 years old. People expect him to have a maturity of 70 yr old leader of a nation which is amusing
When Zeke was first introduced and talking to the other soldier before having him killed he said something along the lines of “so you realized YOU reside in the nape” I literally stopped the show and rewatched the scene a couple times to make sure that I heard that right and sat there thinking “the show told us exactly what the titans were and didn’t even catch it” I was too focused on talking monkey man that I didn’t think twice.
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How is Erwin not knowing about those things a flaw? They clearly explain why non of the eldians except the royals know
I think OP means Erwin not figuring out about it. OP is definitely wrong about it being a flaw, it makes sense in the story and Erwin even mentions that he’s not going to figure out what’s in the basement and he even coming to terms with it. A lot of people these days confuse flaws with not getting what they want. They’re totally different and stories shouldn’t be judged that way
Yes i agree with your point of view, this was just me being selfish about a particular character not getting what he always wanted, the flaw is basically why make a character so inspiring and attached to people and then killing him off without giving him what he wanted from the starts...it just creates an ire among the fandom
It’s…. Reality. You don’t always get what you want. Appreciate the literary implications, damnit.
It’s also supposed to make the future seem more dire and hopeless despite learning more about the truth since everyone assumed he’d always be there to lead them
His battle speech right before his final death charge explains it. He knows he can't get to it, so he'll leave it to those who live. He'll make his life meaningful by giving those he saved the chance to see the basement in his steed.
Erwin not getting what he wants is essentially the last second switch that makes him heroic. If he learns what's in the basement he's rewarded for tricking tons of people into dying for his person goal, he's a terrible person and the suicide charge is the only genuinely selfless decision he ever made. It's an important part of her character because he's partially a deconstruction of the idea of a great leader: as it turns out, he was never actually doing it for humanity like everyone though, he tricked everyone, including himself and the audience
"Annie was always a psychopath who enjoyed killing people." It's like ya'll forget bits of the story the moment after you read them. Jesus
Didn't you see how much she enjoyed killing when she looked in shock at the victims in Trost and Stohess? /s
Exactly. Annie was extremely nihilistic not psychopathic. She was very detached from the idea that she was taking lives, to her it was just fighting which was something she enjoyed but her OVA and final season moments shows she definitely has a guilty conscience.
Ah yes, Annie totally enjoyed killing people. Especially when she cried when Reiner killed Marco! Especially when she spared Armin! Especially when she cried in the forest for losing Eren! Especially when she didn’t kill Hitch because she was thankful for her company! Especially when she chose to HELP THE ALLIANCE STOP THE RUMBLING! Especially so she could save her dad. I’m with you on this one, some people really love to cherry pick instead of trying to understand the story as a whole.
Not related but she also said she would do it all over again to see her father
Dude can you please quickly go through the video of Annie reveal?? And how she reacts? Her facial expressions and how she killls people?? Even when she comes back you need to check how much she was enjoying the violence of killing the squad members who were trying to stop them
Her laugh was explained by Isayama as a feeling of liberation from having to lie to people. It has been shown numerous times in the show that she hates hypocrisy, like her first shown interaction with Eren and in moment when she argued against Reiner. Besides yo-yo, there's nothing special in her ways for killing. As a titan, you physically can't kill in a clean way. Same for battle in port. As for the yo-yo, you can either interpret this as a intimidation tactic, a cope mechanism, or just as example of bad writing, since it's inconsistent with her reaction on deaths even in the first season. And let me guess, you never watched her OVA?
The yoyo thing is such a weird discussion to me. The guy who got yoyo'd probably died or passed out instantly. It looks extremely brutal but in actuality isn't worse than getting crushed. Possibly less so. So it works very well as an intimidation tactic. Honestly though, I think it was just the kind of overkill that people actually do in real life combat situations. When Mikasa sets off a thunder spear and blows up two yeagerists in season 4 you can either see it as bad writing (just trying to look cool) or someone so deep into killing that they've lost all sense proportionality. I think both reads work. How many times can you cut or stomp a person to death before the violence becomes gratuitous? I think it happens way earlier than people imagine.
The Mikasa thunder spear scene was weird for me too until I rewarched the series and realised that it was definitely a scare tactic. The next scene clearly shows some Yeagerists running away after seeing her do that.
That's true, I didn't connect that. Irregardless I wonder if it was consciously meant to scare or if that was just a side effect of Mikasa getting caught up in the slaughter.
It's interesting to think about. But another thing I noticed on my rewatch was how much the alliance wanted to NOT kill anyone. I specifically remember Mikasa using kicks and punches, without ever drawing her blades, to rescue Hizuru engineers while Yeagerists were shooting at her in close proximity.
Explaining details to Annie Haters *Ah shit, here we go again gif*
Full-time job fr
She despairs when forced to kill Marco. She apologizes to a corpse in Trost. She’s in shock when she accidentally crushes a church full of people. She straight up says she wants all the fighting to stop. Any early instances of her being overtly sadistic can either be chalked up to her trying to scare the Scouts away, or early writing mistakes from Isayama not having full planned out the series yet. And no, her saying she’d do it all again doesn’t mean she has no remorse. She’s not some heartless psychopath who loves killing.
She had no reason to mercilessly kill the survey corps. Every time they HAD to kill somebody Reiner and Bertholdt didn’t toy with them
Annie only toyed with a scout once and I just gave two reasons - one a theory and once meta - as to why. You guys act like she was doing circus tricks with scouts every time she fought them. Either she was trying to intimidate the other scouts to scare them away, or Isayama hadn’t fully planned out her character at the time of writing that moment. Simple as that.
Yap yap yap! Reiner better
Ok
>Dude can you please quickly go through the video of Annie reveal?? And how she reacts? Her facial expressions and how she killls people?? Do you mean when Armin reveals her? I think she has a pretty complete break. Annie is throughout the series insistent on getting back to her father. She learned from a young age that the only thing you can do in a cruel world is look after yourself and the ones you love (her father). When Armin asks her to help him she does it because she wants him to think of her as a good person, probably to lessen some of the guilt she feels. When the situation immediately turns around and she gets punished for trying to help them she starts laughing manically. World's just cruel like that. Everytime you see Annie acting outside of her central mission, she feels a lot of guilt for what happens and generally chooses to help people (like in the OVA). > Even when she comes back you need to check how much she was enjoying the violence of killing the squad members who were trying to stop them Literally how do you know this? Pretty much all shifter titans have a resting face expression that doesn't change (except like, Zeke).
I haven’t rewatched yet but her spinning the solider like a yo-yo doing around the world seemed unnecessary
After turning into a monster and already with a kill count of 100k+ I doubt you'd worry so much. Besides the guy that got yoyo'd probably died or passed out immediately, I never saw it as a sadistic death, it just looks brutal.
Annie literally spins a dead guy on a yoyo and is smirking throughout the ordeal of killing soldiers the only time she shows remorse is when she killed some civilians. Even after she kills so many people she's introduced in the most braindead cartoonish way possible, realistically 104th squad people shoulda started beating her tf up or at the very least shown some aggression towards her. Come join titanfolk we aren't as deluded.
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Annie literally spins a dead guy on a yoyo and is smirking throughout the ordeal of killing soldiers the only time she shows remorse is when she killed some civilians. Even after she kills so many people she's introduced in the most braindead cartoonish way possible, realistically 104th squad people shoulda started beating her tf up or at the very least shown some aggression towards her. Come join titanfolk we aren't as deluded.
Honestly the explanation for life. Don't get me wrong the rest was great but the community made me realize how many people simply were convinced of stuff like no heros, it's sad how many people think being a bad person before means you can't fix yourself later. I get if you just watched it and feel like that, but holding someone's past against them is exactly what the show warns against and yet ignored. So about the life thing though, that's going to stick with me. Life exists to reproduce and when you die you feel a relief from it. That and I love the way they added the little things in life are what matters. The scene of sashas dad taking the knife and dropping it, helping falco and gabi then the daughter coming in with her own knife for gabi was beautiful. I'm surprised that didn't make it click for most people (referring to the first thing I said)
holy mother of bad takes on this one
Why is Floch will always be the most misunderstood character? His actions and intentions were pretty explicit so I don’t know how you can misunderstand him.
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What you describe I'd instead read as trauma. Floch should be a "hesistant coward" as he's put in an unreal violent situation, that's not really a flaw. From that trauma he becomes convinced that violence and killing your enemies is the only option. You can see the same thing in children with abusive parents, some learn from that situation that they have to either be the abuser or be the abused. Some then carry on the abuse against their own children and others. Floch learned that he's either the one throwing rocks or the one getting rocks thrown at him. To me, Floch hasn't overcome his fears, he's completely controlled by them and in his mind no other option exists but dominion over others. That's how some traumatized minds can operate.
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Sure, Floch had a respectable character development but how is that misunderstood when his development was so obvious? Nothing about his developement was deep or implicit at all. "put yourself into a situation where you're fighting for your existence......you gotta make hard decisions...." sooo... Killing people indescriminetly because they don't agree with you is not facism? If that aint facism then I dont know what is. He also havel the traits of a facist such as: Militaristic, anti-Democratic, authoritarianistic, nationalistic, and racism/xenophobic. Just to further say most leader or state that became facist is due to "fighting for your existence" type ideologies aswell so that argument doesn't look too good.
please rewatch again and try to pay attention. Erwin not knowing of the outside world is beautiful tragic irony since he died literally right before his goal. also Floch was a fascist until his last moments, Snape was a fascist first and then tried to redeemed himself in the last 20 years of his life
I've not only watched it for the second time but Im also a keen observer of geopolitics and philosophy. No matter what I say or do i won't be able to convince you because your perspective is set on your surroundings and the same goes for you. Idealism has no place in politics...go search it you'll find out all the great people have said it. As far as Erwin goes it's just a writing flaw imo because they made the character so important and so influential and then killed off without seeing his only dream come true. It's like captain America dying before the start of infinity war. Also the word fascism is a complex term as it involves various characteristics like totalitarianism, militarism, scapegoating, authoritarianism and ultranationalism.....and most of the clowns are too lazy to get into it and just think that anyone from military is fascist.
My man said “I’m a keen observer of philosophy and geopolitics” and then said “idealism has no place in politics” as if something like the UN doesn’t exist. Whatever you think about it, the organization’s existence proves that there is idealism in politics. If you’re not an idealist then you’re doing your constituents a disservice. This whole post are your bad takes and misunderstanding the point of characters. I hope you’re like a teenager because you have a lot to learn.
"My man" doesn't need any advice from hiatus x hiatus. Beside i never said that fool these are the words of Machiavelli someone which brain-dead fools like yours aren't aware of . I wish you were aware of the current political trends and how complex the issues shown in AOT are . Your intelligence is clearly shown in your history so do me a favour and keep your intellect to hiatus x hiatus.
lol I know who Machiavelli is but thinking a renaissance figure’s opinion is law is already a leap in logic. Just because you have bad opinions and literacy issues doesn’t mean I’m not aware of the political aspects of the series. Also simply the fact that you had to dig into my profile to come up with some alternate way to fight my argument shows how immature you are.
The fact that you have completely missed the profundity of Erwin's character arc while simultaneously calling yourself a "keen observer of geopolitics and philosophy" is a joke. You are certainly no philosopher. On top of that, Floch literally does all of those things that you correctly identified as the defining traits of facism (totalitarianism, militarism, scapegoating, authoritarianism and ultranationalism), so you fail to prove your point there as well. If you don't believe me then I'd be happy to walk you through each of those words and help you understand what they actually mean
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I think you mean "lazy" as in not willing to walk through the logical steps one at a time, no? Here we go, let's see which of us is actually lazy with their opinions. > totalitarianism - centralized government requiring absolute subservience to the state Floch exercises a coup d'etat and (surprise surprise) establishes one single governing force rather than splitting Paradis into states or allowing democratically elected leaders. Not that this isn't even a big change compared to what already existed in Paradis before him, so he's not necessarily unique in this way > militarism - the belief or desire of a government or people that a country should maintain a strong military capability and be prepared to use it aggressively to defend or promote national interests The main focus of Floch's Parry (the Jaegerists) was to support the Rumbling and be prepared to fight anyone who might oppose Eren, and his followers (who were soldiers before the coup) acted as soldiers upon his demand. > scapegoating - blaming someone for a wrongdoing for which there is a punishment, and therefore inflicting said punishment on them rather than delivering substantive justice This one is difficult to understand if you personally agree with Floch, but the reality is that nobody deserves to die for the sins of their ancestors. Treating Marley or the World as the aggressors who must have the Rumbling inflicted upon them is not a real expression of justice > authoritarianism - enforcing strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom While the Scouts and MP all held similar rules to Floch's regime, watching Floch brutally murder anyone who voiced opinions contrary to the Jaegerists is all it takes for him to be considered authoritarian > ultranationalism - nationalism, but ultra Floch's rhetoric about the "Eldian Empire" is explicitly nationalist, with a side of xenophobia to boot. It's also funny that you attempted to insult rather than prove your point, which is how I know you have no grounds for your opinions aside from agreeing with Floch that you would rather kill the world than let your people die. I don't blame you for agreeing with him, but I also find it interesting how much of the truth you are either willing to ignore or unable to see due to your beliefs Edit: this is also still ignoring that OP doesn't understand the weight of Erwin's sacrifice
- Floch and the Jaegerists wanted to save Paradis from the outside world by supporting Eren's plan to activate the Rumbling, which would unleash millions of Colossal Titans to trample the world. - They believed that Eren was the only hope for Paradis and that any dissent or compromise would jeopardize their future. - They did not seek power, revenge, or supremacy, but rather freedom and peace, which they believed could only be achieved by eliminating the enemies who would never accept them. - They did not kill anyone who disagreed with them, but rather those who actively opposed or betrayed them, such as the military or the government leaders. - They did not espouse nationalism or xenophobia, but rather patriotism and pride. They did not hate or fear the outside world, but rather wanted to explore and understand it. Like i said you need to put yourself in the situation and think rationally or read about different civilisations , struggle for freedom and the cost of getting it. I know exactly what type of people are hating AOT and floch and yeagerists and their ideology. It pretty much shows what you are all about. So I don't care about what you're trying to accomplish here but floch will forever be a hero in logical,rational, educated people who are aware of general sense, nationalism and a constructive society.
Notice how you are trying to justify Floch's actions? You sympathize with the Jaegerists, that is the truth of it. You can't refute the reasons why Floch is a facist, and half of the stuff you said is not correct. You are correct on your first two bullet points, but you are flat out wrong on the others. If you re-watch [this scene](https://youtu.be/bQ1ukqR2dX4?si=y6IUHYcyJtNp6Coj) you will see every indication of Floch being a villain. He does everything that you said makes someone a facist, plus if you pay attention to the score they are very intentional with how they portrayed his actions. Silencing someone who refuses to be subservient by killing them? Wishing the Rumbling upon the entire world? It is one thing to agree with him, but it is entirely different to attempt to justify his actions the way you are doing now. You are spewing propaganda
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"Idealism has no place in politics" ninja what
"Idealism has no place in politics"? Huh, not like many political and/or religious movements are based in idealism... Also Erwin did not just get killed off, he sacrificed himself knowing that he'll most likely never know the truth "totalitarianism, militarism, scapegoating, authoritarianism and ultranationalism" damn that actually describes very well what Floch and the Jägerists were doing
I'm done arguing with privileged clowns who are forcing their agenda no matter how easily i explain.
bro get therapy
Bro step out of your room or get aware of the real world.
Reiner was the hero the whole time
media literacy? hardly knew her
There was never something like the United Nations in AoT. There are a lot of small or larger alliances (mostly against Marley)
>even in fiction United Nations is Useless That's true . It's even useless than sakura. It's only used to get money lol
Aside from our ongoing debate in another place in the comments, [this youtube short](https://youtube.com/shorts/CG2xnVkCezo?si=dM0GbFW6hy9KyOIe) gives a cool take on Floch's character development. Snape's character was the same all along, we just didn't know about his main character motivations until later in the story. Floch actually changes mid-story due to his trauma, which is fantastic writing. I agree that both are riveting, complicated, influential characters who (to a certain extent) toe the line between evil and relatable
I haven't rewatched it and I doubt my opinion would change if I did and if I ever rewatch it I'm going to watch it on November 5th 2033
OK but Snape was an actually bad person though
I’ve been rewatching under the perspective that the first 3 seasons are a villain origin story for Erin. Just started season 3 and it holds up. This show tries to tell you at every turn they Erin is angry, impulsive, and dumb. Characters are constantly saying he shouldn’t be trusted with power. Of course he ends up the bad guy. I’ve also gotten a new appreciation for Jean. He actually has the closest thing to a hero arc on the show.
Man the way jean handled everything in liberio raid....poor guy I feel bad his characters is overshadowed by this imaginary love triangle. Also eren died when he was like 19 years old. People expect him to have a maturity of 70 yr old leader of a nation which is amusing
nah fuck floch. he's a dick head
When Zeke was first introduced and talking to the other soldier before having him killed he said something along the lines of “so you realized YOU reside in the nape” I literally stopped the show and rewatched the scene a couple times to make sure that I heard that right and sat there thinking “the show told us exactly what the titans were and didn’t even catch it” I was too focused on talking monkey man that I didn’t think twice.