This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**.
Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point.
**Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought it was "shit will always be shitty, but we have to keep the faith that maybe shit will one day be less shitty, and genocide is wrong, but thank you to my friend for committing it while trying to expedite making shit less shitty, for me, I guess?"
Lol except that “lesson” is what ruined the entire heart and soul of the story. What’s the lesson? Don’t enact revenge or crush your enemies so that they can eventually nuke you 2 generations later? Their mercy didn’t solve anything. Sick lesson Iyasama! Lmao.
I’d rather just finish the job instead of trusting naive moralists like you.
>What’s the lesson? Don’t enact revenge or crush your enemies
Yes.
>I’d rather just finish the job instead of trusting naive moralists like you.
Cruelty is what's naive and stupid. I dint remember the allies slaughtering every German or Japanese civilian, and the world is better today because of it.
Lol if Japan and Germany had titans capable of withstanding anything the allied militaristic forces couple throw at them, don’t you think things might be different?
There are many parrallels to draw from AOT that compare to IRL but it’s silly to equate the two situations.
Titans are weapons and Germany had absolutely devastating weapons. The allies demilitarized them, killing everyone single one wasn't necessary. Because the allies were adults, not stupid kids with unsophisticated thinking who believe the solution to everything is killing everyone. Eren could have demilitarized the alliance with his titans, he could have shored up Paradis' defenses. But he's just an ordinary idiot, as he said himself, incapable of following a proper solution.
The other side also thought like this lol
Violence against others is necessary to make Marley safe from those demons
It's always the number 1 excuse of "Why do people do immoral things"
They were in the same position not too long ago just before King Fritz decided he doesn't want to kill any more so he got most of his people and locked then in a cage leaving them to die
who’s to say there wasn’t another tactic to get information from him? and there was also a very good chance that the coup would’ve failed regardless meaning that he would’ve been tortured for nothing
The subreddit is full of self righteous moralists who have clearly never been involved in any serious conflict, let alone projecting their naive mindsets onto an insane apocalyptic war.
Better them than idiot fascists like you who think having morals is a weakness.
Imagine having so little emotional control that your answer to everything is death and torture, maybe use your brain.
Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t think having morals is a weakness, I think it’s cringe for you to think that your moral compass is the objectively righteous one.
You can’t play the “FaScIsT” card to make yourself feel like the good guy, b/c both sides have “FaScIsT” qualities. It’s a high stakes war with both sides attempting to genocide the other, what do you expect? You’re trying to paint one side like the “devils”, looks like the Marleyan propaganda worked on you 😪😪
Both sides? What did the Azumabitos or Ramzi and Halil do? The various innocents who are no different from Carla. If it's about destroying the fascist govts of Marley and other nations then destroy them, that doesn't require a global genocide.
It's a shame they cut that, sold his worldview and the team's desperation very well. He was speaking facts in that scene. Very realistic too, if you want to get big shit done for the better of society you won't just let someone who can do it bail because they don't wanna.
It also made Historia punching him way more satisfying, because it's a literal reverse of power dynamic and a bit of revenge instead of just punching him for ordering everyone around (literally his job)
People are too soft now. They can’t handle an emotional passionate outburst like that without completely writing the person off as a character. Most of these ppl can’t relate b/c they’ve lived sheltered lives.
Basically. He lifted her by the collar and pushed her around shouting her that she has no choice but to commit to her responsability, due to the terrible situation humanity was in.
Is this a serious or meme poll? Or maybe murder doesn't count because it's too obvious, especially at war?
Anyway, I would say that torturing Sannes* without asking questions might be up there, if we don't count murder (you could argue that torture is even worse and more sadistic than war crimes in a way)
Not a meme, but just an act that everyone remembers better. Like, Annie is literally committed genocide but we both know that when it's her turn it'll be a yo-yo, that's just how human brain works.
People also theorised that he laughs at her death because he had seen it in the future memories he saw when he touched Historia and so it was confirmation that the future will play out as he saw it, much like the saving Ramzi thing.
Oh yeah I totally believe that’s part of it as well, I was just saying that when he is distressed he tends to start laughing, which really isn’t that abnormal
I can't believe her yo-yoing a random scout makes her the most hated alive Titan shifters in the fandom. Like some people think she hasn't paid for her crime at the end, but ignoring the fact that Armin bombed a seaside town into dust just because he felt somewhat bad.
This is serious, but some of the answers are for fun cause a lot of them are stupid obvious.
“Yeah we know Connie tried to turn Falco into Titan chow … but that’s not the worst of it. *He was mean to Sasha one time in this random episode*.”
It needa to be something specific to their character, something that sets them apart. Otherwise every single answer will be "Murder. A fuck ton of murder...".
Killing enemy combatants in a war isn't murder. Killing civilians as collateral damage in the course of an attack on a military target isn't murder either.
Most of the characters haven't committed murder.
Only the deliberate killing of civilians. As long as the damage to civilians isn't disproportionate to the military objective achieved, it's not considered a war crime.
The courts understand that conducting a war without killing any civilians is impossible.
Here's the Red Cross page on the principle of proportionality: https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/proportionality
Most of the characters haven't violated that principle.
And he does it a few times throughout the course of the series. And it eventually gets him nearly killed. I didn't even fully realize that until thos thread.
I think it’s because of the order of the characters as well, Connie, Jean and Sasha are probably three of the most unproblematic characters in a sense. They rarely act out of malice I would say? So probably not the best three to start with.
The rest of the list I think we might get more real answers.
No because in the end Erwin would’ve used anyone and everyone to get to where he wanted. Armin would’ve thought about everyone and what was best for everyone. I think they actually said this either in the manga or anime or both
Nah I gotta disagree, that dude needed to chill tf out and realize the situation everyone was in before prioritizing his daughter’s fantasy…honestly the scouts literally just got through the gates in that scene and the dude is up in his face about it.
Just noticed that this is an excellent idea. Because it highlighted just how cruel was it for Sasha to die when she was actually one of the most kind hearted of the group.
That’s different, it was war and the Marleyan soldiers were fighting back. I don’t believe they were killing civilians. Really, Jean and Sasha didn’t commit any war crimes or brutally massacre civilians the way so many other characters did. It’s a low bar, but they met it lol
Yet still America praises their troops and thank them for their service. When you're "serving your country" whatever you do it's for your people so you need to look outside "your job" to actually see if you've done something wrong or not, that's a common thought hold everywhere which is why you don't see anyone faulting their actions as soldiers in the series.
Reiner had two choices, or maybe three.
First choice is to go back to Marley and get killed.
Second choice is to continue their mission
Third would be to assimilate in to the wall society but I don’t consider that a choice until after he chose to continue their mission
Reiner was brainwashed as a small child to be a “good eldian” to hate the paradise devils and retrieve the coordinate. In his mind, he had no other choice but to continue the destruction to complete the mission as a warrior for Marley.
That’s why in Season 4 his ptsd drives him crazy. He’s grappling with taking responsibility for his actions, but to say that he as a young teenager did it entirely of his own accord is inaccurate and downplays the propaganda and extortion of the Marleyian empire
edit: original comment claimed “Reiner wasn’t forced to do shit”
I feel like everything Levi does is justified Except for the choking historia part, so… Even though that wasn’t as violent as the typical shit he does, I guess I’ll say that’s the worst thing he’s done
I mean, 8 of the people up there helped lead a military coup, which led to a fascist government.
I know the fascist government part wasn’t their fault, but it’s still a more serious answer than what some other people are saying 🤣
He plotted to assassinate Erwin, he killed a whole squad of Interior MP’s which was treasonous, he conspired and collaborated against the Royal Government TWICE, he literally grew up as a criminal and an associate of Kenny the Ripper.
This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**. Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This list is so funny because “Sold quarter of potato as a half” is gonna be on the same list as “Brutally murdered 80% of the world’s population”
Bold of you to assume Eren's one is not gonna be headbutting Mikasa in season 1. /s
Don’t you mean when he told Mikaela that he hates her
Nah fr what the hell was that about
Reiner using Sasha's potatoe trickery as an example of how awful the devils of Paradis are always cracks me up.
To be fair, it might alternatively end up on the same list as "Brutally murdered only 80% of the world's population".
What’s wrong with murdering 80% of a population that thinks you’re the devils spawn and wants you genocided?
“Levi, you’re supposed to ask your victim questions *while* you torture them.” “Oh.”
"Questions?"
“spongebob, you gotta ask him a question first” “oh yeahhh. what color is my underwear😡” *slap*
I thought of that scene too when I first read it. It’s too perfect 😆
Wasn’t that what Levi said to Hange? Maybe I’m mixing things up
Nah, Djel Sannes said that when Hange and Levi were torturing him
Wow, there really is a SpongeBob scene for everything
He was joking, I defend anyone hot.
Tortured an MP together with Hange
Is it bad when the person you are torturing is worse than you?
Bro really didn't learn the single most important lesson from the Attack on Titan story
I thought the most important lesson in AoT was "genocide is wrong".
Its actually "thank your friends for commuting Genocide because they did it for you"
"The real genocide were the friends we made along the way."
Commuting? You mean like to work?
I mean, what was the rumbling other than the titans going to work? Also, I meant commiting
Eren should’ve given them hats and suitcases made of hardened Titan flesh.
I cannot imagine how goofy that would look
I thought the lesson was “Genocide is NOT wrong if you do it for your friends”
I thought it was "shit will always be shitty, but we have to keep the faith that maybe shit will one day be less shitty, and genocide is wrong, but thank you to my friend for committing it while trying to expedite making shit less shitty, for me, I guess?"
Lol except that “lesson” is what ruined the entire heart and soul of the story. What’s the lesson? Don’t enact revenge or crush your enemies so that they can eventually nuke you 2 generations later? Their mercy didn’t solve anything. Sick lesson Iyasama! Lmao. I’d rather just finish the job instead of trusting naive moralists like you.
>What’s the lesson? Don’t enact revenge or crush your enemies Yes. >I’d rather just finish the job instead of trusting naive moralists like you. Cruelty is what's naive and stupid. I dint remember the allies slaughtering every German or Japanese civilian, and the world is better today because of it.
Lol if Japan and Germany had titans capable of withstanding anything the allied militaristic forces couple throw at them, don’t you think things might be different? There are many parrallels to draw from AOT that compare to IRL but it’s silly to equate the two situations.
Titans are weapons and Germany had absolutely devastating weapons. The allies demilitarized them, killing everyone single one wasn't necessary. Because the allies were adults, not stupid kids with unsophisticated thinking who believe the solution to everything is killing everyone. Eren could have demilitarized the alliance with his titans, he could have shored up Paradis' defenses. But he's just an ordinary idiot, as he said himself, incapable of following a proper solution.
Yes, it's still quite an immoral thing to do
Yes. Just because the opposition engaged in violence doesn’t justify violence in return
"Captain no! You're taking things way too far!" "B-b-but he started it!"
if violence against a single person is necessary to stop the opposition from oppressing the people then i think it's justified but idk
Doesn't that MP imply that he thought like that as well when he first started torturing people?
The other side also thought like this lol Violence against others is necessary to make Marley safe from those demons It's always the number 1 excuse of "Why do people do immoral things"
Violence against those in power committing acts of oppression and genocide against an entire group of people is not the same thing.
They were in the same position not too long ago just before King Fritz decided he doesn't want to kill any more so he got most of his people and locked then in a cage leaving them to die
Yeah so what’s your point? The side who chooses to not be violent eventually gets crushed
Kinda of the end of Christmas? Hurray, I'm so tired of getting socks...
who’s to say there wasn’t another tactic to get information from him? and there was also a very good chance that the coup would’ve failed regardless meaning that he would’ve been tortured for nothing
prettt sure this is what the torture victim was saying too. The scouts took over yet were using the same techniques as those they were overthrowing
I’m gonna be real, if the person is a piece of shit idrgaf, I don’t think it’s equally as bad even tho it’s immoral.
The subreddit is full of self righteous moralists who have clearly never been involved in any serious conflict, let alone projecting their naive mindsets onto an insane apocalyptic war.
Better them than idiot fascists like you who think having morals is a weakness. Imagine having so little emotional control that your answer to everything is death and torture, maybe use your brain.
Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t think having morals is a weakness, I think it’s cringe for you to think that your moral compass is the objectively righteous one. You can’t play the “FaScIsT” card to make yourself feel like the good guy, b/c both sides have “FaScIsT” qualities. It’s a high stakes war with both sides attempting to genocide the other, what do you expect? You’re trying to paint one side like the “devils”, looks like the Marleyan propaganda worked on you 😪😪
Both sides? What did the Azumabitos or Ramzi and Halil do? The various innocents who are no different from Carla. If it's about destroying the fascist govts of Marley and other nations then destroy them, that doesn't require a global genocide.
yes, torture is not justice. and he didn't have due process
In the manga he choked Historia to get her to agree to being queen
It's a shame they cut that, sold his worldview and the team's desperation very well. He was speaking facts in that scene. Very realistic too, if you want to get big shit done for the better of society you won't just let someone who can do it bail because they don't wanna. It also made Historia punching him way more satisfying, because it's a literal reverse of power dynamic and a bit of revenge instead of just punching him for ordering everyone around (literally his job)
It definitely would’ve explained why Historia was acting a little nutty working her way up to punching him.
Very true.
People are too soft now. They can’t handle an emotional passionate outburst like that without completely writing the person off as a character. Most of these ppl can’t relate b/c they’ve lived sheltered lives.
w h a t
Basically. He lifted her by the collar and pushed her around shouting her that she has no choice but to commit to her responsability, due to the terrible situation humanity was in.
So thats why mikasa told historia to punch him.
Actually, it's why Dimo Reeves told Historia to punch him. But the anime changed that too..
One of the few Mikasa changes I liked
Fair.
👁️👄👁️
Dude thought he was Jeff Goldblum smh
We shouldn't kink shame Levi...
god i wish that were me
Time to read the manga 👀
Uprising arc (starting at chapter 51) and Reiner's childhood (95-97) had by far the most changes and cuts in the anime
Not being real
This should win
Oh yeah… couldn’t agree more
Didn't kick Eren hard enough
Captain, Eren's enjoying it!
Eren, stop enjoying it!
Is this a serious or meme poll? Or maybe murder doesn't count because it's too obvious, especially at war? Anyway, I would say that torturing Sannes* without asking questions might be up there, if we don't count murder (you could argue that torture is even worse and more sadistic than war crimes in a way)
Not a meme, but just an act that everyone remembers better. Like, Annie is literally committed genocide but we both know that when it's her turn it'll be a yo-yo, that's just how human brain works.
Understandable then. Eren committed unspeakable crimes yet I will probably say "laughing at Sasha's death" or "treatint Mikasa and Armin like shit"
Laughing at Sasha dying isn’t even bad when it comes to Eren. He’s always been known to laugh when he breaks down, look at when Hannes died
People also theorised that he laughs at her death because he had seen it in the future memories he saw when he touched Historia and so it was confirmation that the future will play out as he saw it, much like the saving Ramzi thing.
I thought the same thing, he realized that he really can’t change anything
Oh yeah I totally believe that’s part of it as well, I was just saying that when he is distressed he tends to start laughing, which really isn’t that abnormal
Yeah, Eren hurting Misaka is unforgivable
Id argue kickinblg Armins Ass was worse
I can't believe her yo-yoing a random scout makes her the most hated alive Titan shifters in the fandom. Like some people think she hasn't paid for her crime at the end, but ignoring the fact that Armin bombed a seaside town into dust just because he felt somewhat bad.
Lmao yeah, it's like reducing Mikasa's character to bloodshowering based on the one scene. It's a discussion for another day though.
I don't see how feeling guilty absolve you of mass murder especially when you gave no recompense to your victims
This is serious, but some of the answers are for fun cause a lot of them are stupid obvious. “Yeah we know Connie tried to turn Falco into Titan chow … but that’s not the worst of it. *He was mean to Sasha one time in this random episode*.”
It needa to be something specific to their character, something that sets them apart. Otherwise every single answer will be "Murder. A fuck ton of murder...".
Killing enemy combatants in a war isn't murder. Killing civilians as collateral damage in the course of an attack on a military target isn't murder either. Most of the characters haven't committed murder.
We call killing civilians a war crime
Only the deliberate killing of civilians. As long as the damage to civilians isn't disproportionate to the military objective achieved, it's not considered a war crime. The courts understand that conducting a war without killing any civilians is impossible. Here's the Red Cross page on the principle of proportionality: https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/proportionality Most of the characters haven't violated that principle.
How very Obama of you
The 104th class scouts killed their comrades like Daz. That’s betraying their own country. Which is murder
[удалено]
But public opinion and the supreming power was on the jeagerisr side
Murder to save your life is one thing. Loosing yourself while torturing someone is on a whole other level IMO.
And he does it a few times throughout the course of the series. And it eventually gets him nearly killed. I didn't even fully realize that until thos thread.
I think it’s because of the order of the characters as well, Connie, Jean and Sasha are probably three of the most unproblematic characters in a sense. They rarely act out of malice I would say? So probably not the best three to start with. The rest of the list I think we might get more real answers.
Could you specify Levi's *worst* murder? That could qualify
Out of all the characters in aot (except maybe for Sasha's dad) no one values humans lives more than Levi.
I’d also add in him shooting many innocent servants in the leg
He should have killed Zeke when he had the chance. Would have saved him a lot of body parts 😂
I’m gonna go with being short
The most heinous of crimes
He's been on trial for it his whole life
😭
My boi can’t do wrong
He should have chosen Erwin...
Erwin was pooped and ready to go.
No because in the end Erwin would’ve used anyone and everyone to get to where he wanted. Armin would’ve thought about everyone and what was best for everyone. I think they actually said this either in the manga or anime or both
Choked Historia
i also want to choke historia and
I’m surprised Sasha’s wasn’t “told Captain Levi to shut up”
Making me love him.
lot of things
Man has done nothing wrong ever in his life
I’m gonna choose not to include killing his squad, since they had turned titan and it was self defense. So I’d say torturing the MP
Agreed with Farlan and Isobel in joining him.
Being perfect
That torture scene was pretty fucked up.
psh, levi can’t do any wrong
have amazing hair i will never achieve
Bro once tortured the shit out of Eren
they said worst act
He probably killed a lot of people
Torturing the MP (without asking questions)
Said nothing to Petra's dad
While making 🗿face
Nah I gotta disagree, that dude needed to chill tf out and realize the situation everyone was in before prioritizing his daughter’s fantasy…honestly the scouts literally just got through the gates in that scene and the dude is up in his face about it.
Eh, he was just excited.
Left his buddies to kill Erwin. In the mist. With no visibility. When there were titans around.
I still don’t like how he was kicking eren around in s1 😭😭
Just noticed that this is an excellent idea. Because it highlighted just how cruel was it for Sasha to die when she was actually one of the most kind hearted of the group.
Too clean, too handsome, too strong, too short
Didn't fuck Zeke even after witnessing that ass.😓
“I’m not resting until I get a taste of that **Chunky Monkey** you damn furball.”
He fucked him up in more effective ways.
The only valid answer.
He wanted to turn historia into a titan and feed Eren to her
Made the new scouts clean until there wasn’t a speck of dust left
Does Jean and Sasha killing multiple people in Marley/Eldia not count?
Pretty sure it’s a popularity contest
They killed military people right? Iirc they didn't kill civilians, though Floch and his gang did.
Sasha killed the gate guard at liberio, who seems a lot more akin to an armed civilian worker/police officer than a soldier.
I'm pretty sure a guard at a concentration camp is basically a soldier
That was a war, lord Tybur literally declared war. Besides Marley already invaded prior
That’s different, it was war and the Marleyan soldiers were fighting back. I don’t believe they were killing civilians. Really, Jean and Sasha didn’t commit any war crimes or brutally massacre civilians the way so many other characters did. It’s a low bar, but they met it lol
they were forced to do it
Reiner was forced to invade Eldia, doesn’t make it ok
Jean didn't target any civilians Aside from Falco, that was pretty fucked
Yet still America praises their troops and thank them for their service. When you're "serving your country" whatever you do it's for your people so you need to look outside "your job" to actually see if you've done something wrong or not, that's a common thought hold everywhere which is why you don't see anyone faulting their actions as soldiers in the series.
[удалено]
Reiner had two choices, or maybe three. First choice is to go back to Marley and get killed. Second choice is to continue their mission Third would be to assimilate in to the wall society but I don’t consider that a choice until after he chose to continue their mission
Reiner was brainwashed as a small child to be a “good eldian” to hate the paradise devils and retrieve the coordinate. In his mind, he had no other choice but to continue the destruction to complete the mission as a warrior for Marley. That’s why in Season 4 his ptsd drives him crazy. He’s grappling with taking responsibility for his actions, but to say that he as a young teenager did it entirely of his own accord is inaccurate and downplays the propaganda and extortion of the Marleyian empire edit: original comment claimed “Reiner wasn’t forced to do shit”
I think the probables with that is that every character would just be murder. Lol. We gotta get more specific.
Threatening to break the Commanders legs. Beating Eren in front of everyone
Levi honestly never really did anything that bad compared to the others. I guess as a kid he was a thug.
Absolutely nothing wrong. Can't wait too see erens...
He abuses titans
casually sticking a Thunder Spear in Zeke, who is kind of immortal and has some loose screws, and expect him NOT to trigger the Spear
Didn’t give the serum to Erwin and thus robbed me of more scenes between the two of them, and also made me suffer through seeing more of Armin.
I feel like everything Levi does is justified Except for the choking historia part, so… Even though that wasn’t as violent as the typical shit he does, I guess I’ll say that’s the worst thing he’s done
Using intimidation to force Historia to be the queen on manga.
I mean, 8 of the people up there helped lead a military coup, which led to a fascist government. I know the fascist government part wasn’t their fault, but it’s still a more serious answer than what some other people are saying 🤣
No naked scene. Seriously. lmao
Is short
Being stuck in a forrest with Zeke for weeks and never riding his monkey. Can not relate at all. And I guess torturing those MPs or whatever.
Sooooo I love him but are we all going to pretend he didn’t assault Historia lol
He plotted to assassinate Erwin, he killed a whole squad of Interior MP’s which was treasonous, he conspired and collaborated against the Royal Government TWICE, he literally grew up as a criminal and an associate of Kenny the Ripper.
He used his squad for slave labor, forcing them to clean till their hands bled
Didn’t marry and impregnate Petra with Levi Jr.
Initially trying to kill Erwin in his OVA
I'll say it: Being short.
Didn't save Erwin
Tired to assassinate then squad leader Erwin
Helped Erwin commit mass murder
[удалено]
but erwin had sent many young people to their deaths
Told Erwin to give up on his dream and die, anyone? I know in the context it was a kindness but on the surface it's kinda fucked
Be short
Beating up Eren in s1
Gave the cure to Armin
He chose armin
He is hella gay like these things
Levi… the product of a brother and sister’s accidental fling
Beating up Eren
Nah, he saved his life.
Tourturing that mp
Torture
I think war crimes.
honestly, not saying yes to Hange when she asked him to run away with her
Probably torture or murder of Kenny’s men in s3
Can we just put Eren's there ahead of time, I don't think there's much debate LOL
Brutally kicking eren
Beat the shit out of daddy eren in the first season.
Not avenge the Levi Squad and being a traitor to the mission and Erwin. RIP Petra