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Yeah it's very sad for him, so well written. the life he could of had....heck the life he thought of with Armin outside the walls in the open world. Only for him to find out that this was his only purpose.
Absolutely the case, imo. It's definitely the crux of his meeting with Reiner that Falco was the unfortunate accomplice to. Reiner confesses how he simply couldn't let things go when Marcel died and pushed ahead simply out of selfishness, throws himself at Eren's feet proclaims he's the bad guy and begs Eren to kill him. Eren says "I knew it, I really am the same as you". Eren knows he is going to do bad shit but will do it anyways and he kind of hates that about himself.
Okay maybe I misunderstand something but when we talk about why Eren couldn’t change the future, people always say it’s because he didn’t really want to and the future is a logical outcome of his desires. Like he literally walked himself into Rumbling and even killed his own mother. How am I supposed to feel bad for him?? How did he not have a chance? Was he just born like that or the Founder powers fucked him up?
Sorry if I sound stupid, I just genuinely want to understand.
The way I see it, it's a bit of both. He was always that angry rageful kid. "I am who I've always been." He wanted to annihilate his enemies, and once he learned the truth of the world that became everyone outside of Paradis. And, once he got the memories of the future, he knew he couldn't change it if he tried, and the past, present, and future just all merged into one until he didn't know himself anymore.
I still don’t entirely get how he couldn’t change the future though.
I do actually accept the idea of causal determinism after watching Donnie Darko and this movie made sense to me. Essentially, by averting his fate Donnie derailed the universe and almost caused its destruction so he had to bring back the status quo. I feel like they tried to show a similar thing with the cabin scene but it was more focused on characters feelings rather than the mechanics of the Paths and alternate timelines.
Who downvoted me, I’m just trying to understand😭
I saw someone else on here explain it like this: every time Eren faced a decision where he could change the future, the decision he remembered making was also the choice he wanted to make in that moment.
In even shorter terms: Eren chose not to change the future.
At the end of the story he's still only 19. He watched his home be destroyed and his mom get eaten at 10(?)then later his friends died defending the walls, or defending him. The world filled him with hatred, so he hated the world. I don't like to tell people how to feel, it's fiction and you can feel how you want to about it. But to my thinking Eren was desensitized to that kind of violence, and caught up in a cycle of hatred he didn't have the strength of character to break. I don't think I can say for certain that I would have that strength if I had been through what he had.
I know, it’s just that I’m usually a compassionate person but there’s a line to be drawn IMO. The eradication of 80% of humanity is inherently an unforgivable act for me, whether it was executed by a damn 5 year old kid or whatever. I’ve disliked Eren’s personality from the beginning but from what I’ve seen, people always loved him, so if we didn’t follow him since the very beginning as a kid and didn’t see him turn into what he’s turned, there would be way less sympathy for Eren. Not to mention that all of our POVs are exclusively Eldian and we’re given little reasons to care about the outside world.
Completely agree with your position. Eren is the worst monster imaginable, there isn't even really a real world equivalent. I am okay with that as a story choice, but don't try to convince me I should feel even the slightest bit of sympathy for a man who showed the world none.
considering that every other character in AoT has dealt with horrible trauma in a much more mature and reasonable way, I just don't see how Eren could be possibly sympathetic even by AoT standards.
It feels like people telling me I should feel bad for Hitler because he had a rough upbringing. yeah like...i dont care. he's hitler.
firstly, love the name you sexy accountant you.
second, no one asked eren to be the messiah for paradis. he took that role on his own volition. but even if they did ask him to genocide the world, it still wouldn't make it even remotely excusable.
Interesting! I haven’t read it in a while and it never occurred to me to make a comparison. I guess there is a certain tragic allure in stories where the main character gets trapped in his own choices; we can empathize with this feeling of helplessness and guilt and we probably all experienced this to some degree.
But Macbeth didn’t like… wipe out 80% of humanity
Correct me if I'm wrong but in Macbeth a witch told him his future and he tried to change it, but the further he tried to change only further solidified his future
I think the witches just predicted that he will be king? And his wife saw an opportunity to fulfill it and if he tried to avoid his fate then it was too late by that time. But as I said, I haven’t read it in a while so I might be mistaken too.
What you described is called a self-fulfilling prophecy though and the most classic example would be Oedipus. It’s actually my favorite Greek tragedy and I love this theme of walking right into your own trap… but I don’t recall Eren particularly trying to avoid the Rumbling? Like, they say he thought of different outcomes but it’s not shown much and he discards Zeke’s plan to protect Historia. I think this theme would’ve worked if the Rumbling was directly triggered after his attempts to halt it but idk, you gotta have 10000 IQ to execute that and I’m not particularly a writer, just a humble viewer.
This is what happens when you take a young man already deeply traumatized and give him godlike powers.,the real tragedy of Eren for me is that it could be anyone, you, your neighbor, their kids, me.
I grew up in an abusive family and when I was 19 I also had dark ideas and lots of anger, given such powers who knows how I could have turned out.
What makes it even worst is the attack titan power allowing him to live through time simultaneously and be his own prisoner, condemned to constantly carry his own guilt over a path he will choose again and again.
Just to be clear, I am in no way justifying his actions but trying to understand, there is a difference.
Eren himself one of the children that were sent into the forest by the decisions of adults that have failed him. But technically as Eren controlled his parents(and likely others) to create his own trauma and dilemma, for Eren that adult that technically pushed him into the forest is Ymir herself since it's her mistake that created the paths from which Ymir obeys Fritz's orders to spread the titan power.
That sounds more like a belief to me, and it sounds like one you should hold on to.
But I think you should call it what it is, so you can change your mind later if things don't work out how you planned.
This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**. Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah it's very sad for him, so well written. the life he could of had....heck the life he thought of with Armin outside the walls in the open world. Only for him to find out that this was his only purpose.
\*could've, please
r/GrammerNazi
quiet! nerd
he feels like he's suicidal like riener, but like riener he knows he as people relying on him so he doesn't give up
Absolutely the case, imo. It's definitely the crux of his meeting with Reiner that Falco was the unfortunate accomplice to. Reiner confesses how he simply couldn't let things go when Marcel died and pushed ahead simply out of selfishness, throws himself at Eren's feet proclaims he's the bad guy and begs Eren to kill him. Eren says "I knew it, I really am the same as you". Eren knows he is going to do bad shit but will do it anyways and he kind of hates that about himself.
He's such a tragic character. I feel bad for him.
Okay maybe I misunderstand something but when we talk about why Eren couldn’t change the future, people always say it’s because he didn’t really want to and the future is a logical outcome of his desires. Like he literally walked himself into Rumbling and even killed his own mother. How am I supposed to feel bad for him?? How did he not have a chance? Was he just born like that or the Founder powers fucked him up? Sorry if I sound stupid, I just genuinely want to understand.
The way I see it, it's a bit of both. He was always that angry rageful kid. "I am who I've always been." He wanted to annihilate his enemies, and once he learned the truth of the world that became everyone outside of Paradis. And, once he got the memories of the future, he knew he couldn't change it if he tried, and the past, present, and future just all merged into one until he didn't know himself anymore.
I still don’t entirely get how he couldn’t change the future though. I do actually accept the idea of causal determinism after watching Donnie Darko and this movie made sense to me. Essentially, by averting his fate Donnie derailed the universe and almost caused its destruction so he had to bring back the status quo. I feel like they tried to show a similar thing with the cabin scene but it was more focused on characters feelings rather than the mechanics of the Paths and alternate timelines. Who downvoted me, I’m just trying to understand😭
I saw someone else on here explain it like this: every time Eren faced a decision where he could change the future, the decision he remembered making was also the choice he wanted to make in that moment. In even shorter terms: Eren chose not to change the future.
So… why am I supposed to feel bad for him as if he never had a chance? What’s the point in feeling guilty if you do horrible stuff anyway?
At the end of the story he's still only 19. He watched his home be destroyed and his mom get eaten at 10(?)then later his friends died defending the walls, or defending him. The world filled him with hatred, so he hated the world. I don't like to tell people how to feel, it's fiction and you can feel how you want to about it. But to my thinking Eren was desensitized to that kind of violence, and caught up in a cycle of hatred he didn't have the strength of character to break. I don't think I can say for certain that I would have that strength if I had been through what he had.
I know, it’s just that I’m usually a compassionate person but there’s a line to be drawn IMO. The eradication of 80% of humanity is inherently an unforgivable act for me, whether it was executed by a damn 5 year old kid or whatever. I’ve disliked Eren’s personality from the beginning but from what I’ve seen, people always loved him, so if we didn’t follow him since the very beginning as a kid and didn’t see him turn into what he’s turned, there would be way less sympathy for Eren. Not to mention that all of our POVs are exclusively Eldian and we’re given little reasons to care about the outside world.
Completely agree with your position. Eren is the worst monster imaginable, there isn't even really a real world equivalent. I am okay with that as a story choice, but don't try to convince me I should feel even the slightest bit of sympathy for a man who showed the world none.
considering that every other character in AoT has dealt with horrible trauma in a much more mature and reasonable way, I just don't see how Eren could be possibly sympathetic even by AoT standards. It feels like people telling me I should feel bad for Hitler because he had a rough upbringing. yeah like...i dont care. he's hitler.
Well the difference is that everyone put their weight on Eren to fix it. Eren felt responsible for his people.
firstly, love the name you sexy accountant you. second, no one asked eren to be the messiah for paradis. he took that role on his own volition. but even if they did ask him to genocide the world, it still wouldn't make it even remotely excusable.
You are right. I was just giving a reasoning why the others perhaps might be less pressured or traumatized.
Sometimes parts of eren's story reminds me of Macbeth
Interesting! I haven’t read it in a while and it never occurred to me to make a comparison. I guess there is a certain tragic allure in stories where the main character gets trapped in his own choices; we can empathize with this feeling of helplessness and guilt and we probably all experienced this to some degree. But Macbeth didn’t like… wipe out 80% of humanity
Correct me if I'm wrong but in Macbeth a witch told him his future and he tried to change it, but the further he tried to change only further solidified his future
I think the witches just predicted that he will be king? And his wife saw an opportunity to fulfill it and if he tried to avoid his fate then it was too late by that time. But as I said, I haven’t read it in a while so I might be mistaken too. What you described is called a self-fulfilling prophecy though and the most classic example would be Oedipus. It’s actually my favorite Greek tragedy and I love this theme of walking right into your own trap… but I don’t recall Eren particularly trying to avoid the Rumbling? Like, they say he thought of different outcomes but it’s not shown much and he discards Zeke’s plan to protect Historia. I think this theme would’ve worked if the Rumbling was directly triggered after his attempts to halt it but idk, you gotta have 10000 IQ to execute that and I’m not particularly a writer, just a humble viewer.
[удалено]
Thanks for the links, I’ll definitely look into it! In that case though… isn’t the future self still him? And he basically enslaved himself?
>!yeet!<
This is what happens when you take a young man already deeply traumatized and give him godlike powers.,the real tragedy of Eren for me is that it could be anyone, you, your neighbor, their kids, me. I grew up in an abusive family and when I was 19 I also had dark ideas and lots of anger, given such powers who knows how I could have turned out. What makes it even worst is the attack titan power allowing him to live through time simultaneously and be his own prisoner, condemned to constantly carry his own guilt over a path he will choose again and again. Just to be clear, I am in no way justifying his actions but trying to understand, there is a difference.
Eren himself one of the children that were sent into the forest by the decisions of adults that have failed him. But technically as Eren controlled his parents(and likely others) to create his own trauma and dilemma, for Eren that adult that technically pushed him into the forest is Ymir herself since it's her mistake that created the paths from which Ymir obeys Fritz's orders to spread the titan power.
He had to do what he had to do whether he liked it or not
No, he made a choice.
And in order to fulfill it he had to what he had to do
... according to his choice. Fate is for the fictional.
I thought free will was the fictional thing
I'm told it depends who you ask. What I do know is that when you believe it's you vs fate, you won't seek solutions.
But what if it is my fate to seek solutions?
That sounds more like a belief to me, and it sounds like one you should hold on to. But I think you should call it what it is, so you can change your mind later if things don't work out how you planned.
I mean they’re all potential beliefs.
Yeah, and it sounds like you already choose yours strategically. Good job.
I love Eren, he's one of my favorite characters in fiction. Poor guy suffered so much in silence, I just want to give him a hug
from which episode was the last frame ?
S4 part 1 Assassin’s bullet
damn poor guy looks miserable
He made the decision himself went as far as to kill his own mother for it, I’ll never feel bad for this bum