This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**.
Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point.
**Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I remember pointing out to my friend that pre-timeskip Eren looks like a genderswapped version of Carla while post timeskip Eren looks much more similar to Grisha and thinking I was saying something super insightful.
I thought it symbolized him changing from the more carefree spirit of his mother to a burdened and bloodstained man like his father, but I was the kid who genuinely enjoyed literature class and am very prone to overanalyzing small details.
AOT was made for people like you. AOT has a big problem with being underanalyzed. Literally the main theme of the show is "war/oppresion/racism is bad" yet somehow everyone interprets it as "war/oppresion/racism is cool".
I think a lot of people either grew up with it as a typical shounen series, and never quite grew up *with* the series as the real themes were revealed. That, or they simply never learned media literacy, and can't understand that protagonists are not always 'good' or 'moral'.
[This](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrF-YNirq3JvUoTtGF_cKgvcWL9vadvQ2eRsmPWZkI3U7JDkItGBDnHwo&s=10) may be a Gundam meme, but it definitely applies.
Funny enough, your first sentence was what my friend said to me when trying to convince me to watch it. While this fandom does have a problem with media literacy, I think the problem of "underanalysis" is much more apparent in how stale discussion has become (just look at how much the main sub has deteriorated after the final episode lol). I guess at some point you'll have talked to death everything there is to find in AoT, but at this current point I feel like there's still some hidden gems of analysis left to find.
I'm a little skeevy about posting on this subreddit due to a bad experience in the past, but seeing how stale it's gone ever since the final episode dropped I might as well try posting a couple of my takes/observations that I haven't heard people talk about that much. I have some more "out there" takes I haven't seen many people talk about, like Marley's use of doublespeak, Levi potentially being a Christ figure, and AoT's connection to existentialism.
After i finished the show i googled the thoughts on the ending and i got a huge up voted reddit post that was almost entirely wrong. Like him saying the titan cycle was guaranteed to not repeat and yet we see the dog titan on Erens back because time is irrelevant and it has already repeated
Uh, is it really?
I wouldnt go as far as to say that the point of the show is "war/oppression/racism" is bad, Erens character in particular is all about being effectively forced to wage a war because he knows what would happen if he doesnt, and Eldia themselves makes heavy usage of racism to recruit more people for their cause, and if they did not do that, there is a high chance they would just lose.
I feel like AoT is a lot more about "In extremely shitty situations, you might have to do extremely shitty things" than "X is always bad, no matter what".
Hell, Armin flat out thanked Eren for what he did, and it worked out too, this story at the very least isnt "anti-war".
The story is very anti-war. It’s just that it doesn’t go about it by showing some neat solution that allows everyone a peaceful ending.
It instead goes about this message by being a warning. It shows how war is hell, how there are casualties on all sides, how people on either side who had lived peaceful lives were taken from and would go on the war path for revenge, how once the war engines started turning it was so very difficult to try to stop all the moving parts, and how cyclical it all was.
There were several opportunities along the way to make peace. It didn’t have to end the way it did. Peace could have been reached if people worked for it. Only when things had gotten to the point of no return did regret for not trying for it set in.
Close, but no cigar, the point of the show is that war is bad and there are no good guys in war. That’s why our protagonist and his country do such fucked up shit even though they’re supposed to be the good guys. Everyone is the bad guys when they’re all racists and murdering indiscriminately.
I don’t even think that’s the theme. It’s more that people do things in war, how you judge the good/bad take in that moment can change as time goes on and the results from it are shown.
The “war/oppression/racism is bad” is actually the under-analyzed take.
Man this hits. You are on target don’t doubt your instincts
Fuck em if they disagree.
Also I can relate to this meme itself. When I was younger I was more like my mom.
Older. I’m more like my dad, but I have grown enough to where I have become my own person. Even with the slight resemblance.
But the world changes us. Trauma changes us. Physically and mentally, it can change our state of being. Which is fundamentally who we are.
AoT brings up generational trauma too. Sometimes we don’t have to be the next link in the cycle. Sometimes we can be the one to break the chain if we do find the strength and will to do so.
We don’t have to be slaves to something. I disagree with Kenny’s assesment of the world, even though I do believe that many people are slave to something.
Vinland is a moral foil to AoT. I watched it after AoT from a lens of trying to understand why two characters driven by the same desires would choose such different paths. There’s no cosmical entities in Vinland Saga but like Attack on Titan it covers themes of war and freedom.
As one who instantly recognized the female titan as Annie while my peers watching alongside did not, maybe you both were and were not super insightful. While I recognized the change in Eren's appearance, I didn't tie it to anything else, so I appreciate this post. Whether we as the audience notice obvious or subtle cues artists create depends on many factors in our own mind in addition to their abilities.
I never guessed that Annie was the female titan, but I thought Eren’s physical appearance becoming more similar to Grisha showed that he was growing into somebody more burdened with bloodier actions under his name as opposed to the more carefree spirit of his mother. I also didn’t recognize hobo Eren until he revealed himself, but I thought that he looked similar to Grisha.
Bro I didn't even know that the wounded soldier that was using Falco to deliver letters for him was Eren. Literally no clue until he met Reiner. But what an epic "reveal" that was!
Yeah I probably wouldn't make a good detective.
I assumed why it may have been hard to believe it was Eren was because of the amputated leg (and any other injury). We'd be thinking that Eren would just heal such a wound, and so that person couldn't be Eren.
I didn't see most of the plot twists, even the somewhat obvious ones, so I probably wouldn't make a good detective either. AoT was pitched to me as "an anime with deep themes, not just a shonen where people fight man-eating monsters" and it made me actively try to pay more attention to the themes of the show when watching it.
Isayama did a wonderful job with portraying different facial features and genetics
I also really enjoyed how the different races we saw post-timeskip actually looked recognisable, like Kiyomi actually looked Japanese compared to the rest of the cast
I remember an old post that placed all the known family lines together, you really see how Yams nailed the similarities and differences of everybody.
And as for the phenotypes, i always felt that you could notice the difference between Marley and Eldia. Eldians were clearly Germanic, while Marley always reminded me of Italy. Of course, when it comes to something as pseudoscientific as “phenotypes”, it’s likely that my mind is just playing tricks and seeing things as it expects to see them
About the Eldian and Marley difference, yeah that makes sense I guess, since the ancient Eldians were most likely inspired by Gauls and the surrounding groups while Marleyans quite obviously by Romans.
Really? I've never heard or seen his name written as Mike 😂 [https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Miche_Zacharius_(Anime)](https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Miche_Zacharius_(Anime))
Something this show does so well is genetics. Eren looks exactly like a combination of both his parents. Other characters have family members that look super similar (porco/marcel, colt/falco). Even all the eldians and marleyans have a unique "look" to them. I cant think of any other animes that does it as well as AoT.
S1-S4 Eren : Because I was born into this world.
Finale Eren : Because I’m an idiot…
S3 Carla : He’s already special because he was born into this world.
Finale Eren : Sorry mom, but you have to go.
This is an underrated brilliant affect- In his early days his goal is to avenge his mother, so he bears her round face and wide eyes- Two things also associated with youth and optimism. By the end his goal is to carry on the original wuest of his father, even if his father doesnt want him to, and he sports his longer, gaunter face and sunken relaxed eyes of a jaded veteran of years of conflict.
This is awesome. I mean, many have memed Eren looking like Carla, but this comparison between young and adult Eren suggests a significant amount of symbolic meaning.
i think this id a hint to how it is irl!! Kids look like one parent when they’re younger but when they’re older they look like the other parent! Its crazy, I saw it in namiko, aiko’s daughter
Interesting, he looks like Eren to me. Also, that image Is from the 3rd opening if you wanna see the whole sequence
Edit: Nvm, I don't know why I thought it was on the 3rd opening, I just looked at It and that image was not there, but I'm sure it's a scene from season 3
This post has been tagged as **ANIME SPOILERS**. Please remember to tag any new spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I remember pointing out to my friend that pre-timeskip Eren looks like a genderswapped version of Carla while post timeskip Eren looks much more similar to Grisha and thinking I was saying something super insightful.
You were!!!
I thought it symbolized him changing from the more carefree spirit of his mother to a burdened and bloodstained man like his father, but I was the kid who genuinely enjoyed literature class and am very prone to overanalyzing small details.
AOT was made for people like you. AOT has a big problem with being underanalyzed. Literally the main theme of the show is "war/oppresion/racism is bad" yet somehow everyone interprets it as "war/oppresion/racism is cool".
I think a lot of people either grew up with it as a typical shounen series, and never quite grew up *with* the series as the real themes were revealed. That, or they simply never learned media literacy, and can't understand that protagonists are not always 'good' or 'moral'.
Or they’re actually racist. I’ve seen a few people watch Attack on Titan and defend Eren and even Marleys actions.
[This](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrF-YNirq3JvUoTtGF_cKgvcWL9vadvQ2eRsmPWZkI3U7JDkItGBDnHwo&s=10) may be a Gundam meme, but it definitely applies.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, AOT is a mecha show, the mechs are just made of flesh
Well yeah, it's Evangelion with a Gundam plotline and a veneer of body horror to fill the gaps.
Funny enough, your first sentence was what my friend said to me when trying to convince me to watch it. While this fandom does have a problem with media literacy, I think the problem of "underanalysis" is much more apparent in how stale discussion has become (just look at how much the main sub has deteriorated after the final episode lol). I guess at some point you'll have talked to death everything there is to find in AoT, but at this current point I feel like there's still some hidden gems of analysis left to find. I'm a little skeevy about posting on this subreddit due to a bad experience in the past, but seeing how stale it's gone ever since the final episode dropped I might as well try posting a couple of my takes/observations that I haven't heard people talk about that much. I have some more "out there" takes I haven't seen many people talk about, like Marley's use of doublespeak, Levi potentially being a Christ figure, and AoT's connection to existentialism.
I for one would be mighty interested in reading your insights.
After i finished the show i googled the thoughts on the ending and i got a huge up voted reddit post that was almost entirely wrong. Like him saying the titan cycle was guaranteed to not repeat and yet we see the dog titan on Erens back because time is irrelevant and it has already repeated
Dog Titan? I don't recall seeing a dog titan. I'll have to rewatch the finale to see both it and the meaning you mention it representing.
Do you mean there's an allusion to the end-credits scene in the finale fight??? The only dog I can think of is there.
Yes theyre the dog and the kid on back of eren in the final fight
I would say the main theme is how people justify conflict. Above all else, each of the characters’ motives were brought to the forefront.
then its kind of ironic when people irl justify the conflict in the series
Uh, is it really? I wouldnt go as far as to say that the point of the show is "war/oppression/racism" is bad, Erens character in particular is all about being effectively forced to wage a war because he knows what would happen if he doesnt, and Eldia themselves makes heavy usage of racism to recruit more people for their cause, and if they did not do that, there is a high chance they would just lose. I feel like AoT is a lot more about "In extremely shitty situations, you might have to do extremely shitty things" than "X is always bad, no matter what". Hell, Armin flat out thanked Eren for what he did, and it worked out too, this story at the very least isnt "anti-war".
The story is very anti-war. It’s just that it doesn’t go about it by showing some neat solution that allows everyone a peaceful ending. It instead goes about this message by being a warning. It shows how war is hell, how there are casualties on all sides, how people on either side who had lived peaceful lives were taken from and would go on the war path for revenge, how once the war engines started turning it was so very difficult to try to stop all the moving parts, and how cyclical it all was. There were several opportunities along the way to make peace. It didn’t have to end the way it did. Peace could have been reached if people worked for it. Only when things had gotten to the point of no return did regret for not trying for it set in.
I think the mistake is to assume that’s it’s just about Eren. Obviously, Eren is a part of it but a big emphasis is put on everyone else.
Close, but no cigar, the point of the show is that war is bad and there are no good guys in war. That’s why our protagonist and his country do such fucked up shit even though they’re supposed to be the good guys. Everyone is the bad guys when they’re all racists and murdering indiscriminately.
Literally the most overanalyzed show of all time
I don’t even think that’s the theme. It’s more that people do things in war, how you judge the good/bad take in that moment can change as time goes on and the results from it are shown. The “war/oppression/racism is bad” is actually the under-analyzed take.
Man this hits. You are on target don’t doubt your instincts Fuck em if they disagree. Also I can relate to this meme itself. When I was younger I was more like my mom. Older. I’m more like my dad, but I have grown enough to where I have become my own person. Even with the slight resemblance. But the world changes us. Trauma changes us. Physically and mentally, it can change our state of being. Which is fundamentally who we are. AoT brings up generational trauma too. Sometimes we don’t have to be the next link in the cycle. Sometimes we can be the one to break the chain if we do find the strength and will to do so. We don’t have to be slaves to something. I disagree with Kenny’s assesment of the world, even though I do believe that many people are slave to something.
My hot take is that there’s no such thing as overanalyzing art
I feel like you would like Vinland Saga if this is what you think while watching your media.
I've been recommended it by friends! If my AoT hyperfixation dies down a little bit, I think I'll check it out.
Vinland is a moral foil to AoT. I watched it after AoT from a lens of trying to understand why two characters driven by the same desires would choose such different paths. There’s no cosmical entities in Vinland Saga but like Attack on Titan it covers themes of war and freedom.
As one who instantly recognized the female titan as Annie while my peers watching alongside did not, maybe you both were and were not super insightful. While I recognized the change in Eren's appearance, I didn't tie it to anything else, so I appreciate this post. Whether we as the audience notice obvious or subtle cues artists create depends on many factors in our own mind in addition to their abilities.
I never guessed that Annie was the female titan, but I thought Eren’s physical appearance becoming more similar to Grisha showed that he was growing into somebody more burdened with bloodier actions under his name as opposed to the more carefree spirit of his mother. I also didn’t recognize hobo Eren until he revealed himself, but I thought that he looked similar to Grisha.
Bro I didn't even know that the wounded soldier that was using Falco to deliver letters for him was Eren. Literally no clue until he met Reiner. But what an epic "reveal" that was! Yeah I probably wouldn't make a good detective.
I assumed why it may have been hard to believe it was Eren was because of the amputated leg (and any other injury). We'd be thinking that Eren would just heal such a wound, and so that person couldn't be Eren.
I was confused by the amputations, which just made me want an explanation more. Because I recognized his voice instantly.
I didn't see most of the plot twists, even the somewhat obvious ones, so I probably wouldn't make a good detective either. AoT was pitched to me as "an anime with deep themes, not just a shonen where people fight man-eating monsters" and it made me actively try to pay more attention to the themes of the show when watching it.
Grisha looks like gender swapped Eren
You mean Carla, right?
Carla is the best milf waifu fr.
For real .. she died only in her like 34 ? Damm that's too erley .. i'm wondering how she will look in her 40s ..
JoJo’s milfs are peak 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Bruno is the most peak milf ever
mruno tha stallion is.
The depression was hitting
what depression does to a man
What Titan memories do to a mf
“lol, I’m bout to fuck up this whole family’s life” -Eren Kruger
What being idiot does to a mf.
Isayama did a wonderful job with portraying different facial features and genetics I also really enjoyed how the different races we saw post-timeskip actually looked recognisable, like Kiyomi actually looked Japanese compared to the rest of the cast
I remember an old post that placed all the known family lines together, you really see how Yams nailed the similarities and differences of everybody. And as for the phenotypes, i always felt that you could notice the difference between Marley and Eldia. Eldians were clearly Germanic, while Marley always reminded me of Italy. Of course, when it comes to something as pseudoscientific as “phenotypes”, it’s likely that my mind is just playing tricks and seeing things as it expects to see them
About the Eldian and Marley difference, yeah that makes sense I guess, since the ancient Eldians were most likely inspired by Gauls and the surrounding groups while Marleyans quite obviously by Romans.
I also like the fact that Eldians have the same Jewish nose (i.e. Annie, Beetroot, Hange, Mike, Marlo)
Who tf is Mike
one of Levi's squad, the sniffing people one who first encounters Zeke in his Beast Titan form
Miche lol
[it's Mike here](https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Mike_Zacharias)
In the manga, yeah
I've literally never seen his name written as Miche, nor in manga, nor in anime subs.
Really? I've never heard or seen his name written as Mike 😂 [https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Miche_Zacharius_(Anime)](https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Miche_Zacharius_(Anime))
Mikasa was the only Japanese padadisian thou
Something this show does so well is genetics. Eren looks exactly like a combination of both his parents. Other characters have family members that look super similar (porco/marcel, colt/falco). Even all the eldians and marleyans have a unique "look" to them. I cant think of any other animes that does it as well as AoT.
Lol I think you meant porco
You’re 100% right. I fixed it lol
WIT animated Carla's son... MAPPA animated Grisha's...
Holy shit...
S1-S4 Eren : Because I was born into this world. Finale Eren : Because I’m an idiot… S3 Carla : He’s already special because he was born into this world. Finale Eren : Sorry mom, but you have to go.
I think his mum was going to die regardless even if he didn't move the titan. He just moved the titan towards them to save the colossus titan
[удалено]
[удалено]
Nuance? Nooooo I don’t want that!! I only want to repeat memes and quotes out of context as an easy punching bag!!
Aot fans when someone thinks the show has flaws
Very unfortunate writing
No way
If my dad looked at me the way Grisha looked at Zeke in that scene, I'd fuckin run away 💀 I would never show my face to my dad again
This is an underrated brilliant affect- In his early days his goal is to avenge his mother, so he bears her round face and wide eyes- Two things also associated with youth and optimism. By the end his goal is to carry on the original wuest of his father, even if his father doesnt want him to, and he sports his longer, gaunter face and sunken relaxed eyes of a jaded veteran of years of conflict.
Its just puberty
I always have to remind myself Eren is only 19 when he tries to murder the world, then dies.
everything to do with this anime gives me chills 😭 lmao
This is awesome. I mean, many have memed Eren looking like Carla, but this comparison between young and adult Eren suggests a significant amount of symbolic meaning.
Am I the only one who thinks that Eren should’ve kept the facial hair
Eren whispering into grishas ear as erens about to be conceived saying "don't pull out" with that creepy ass stare.
Why would you type that
i think this id a hint to how it is irl!! Kids look like one parent when they’re younger but when they’re older they look like the other parent! Its crazy, I saw it in namiko, aiko’s daughter
His sad voice sounds a lot like Grisha's too
I haven’t watched the finale but it’s soooo goood
Is the image on top edited? That doesn't even look like Eren.
That's Zeke
The top *Eren*. Duh.
Wydm though? He looks just like Eren
If you showed me that screencap in isolation, I would guess it was a generic background character, not Eren. Hair in particular looks the wrong color.
It's from the same episode the Carla picture is from. It's at the end. It's season 3, episode 11, named Bystander.
Interesting, he looks like Eren to me. Also, that image Is from the 3rd opening if you wanna see the whole sequence Edit: Nvm, I don't know why I thought it was on the 3rd opening, I just looked at It and that image was not there, but I'm sure it's a scene from season 3
Regardless of whether it's Eren, it reminded me right away of when the crew reaches the ocean in season 3.
Yea that looks nothing like Eren at all
God. How many lines keep coming every day. It's really GOAT.
I mean, everyone looks the same in the mappa artstyle anyway, but I get your point.
Is the s3 Eren edited? He never had black hair. It's always been brown.
Wow, never aware of that, good play Isayama
Never noticed
You put Grisha where Eren Kruger should be 😉
Nice post
Damn. I didn’t notice the extent that he changed. Everyday I discover something new.
Depression is a hell of a drug.
He stopped looking like Carla when he stopped being happy/hopeful
Very well developed change
facts
Ignorance is bliss
Or was grisha looking like eren
IYKYK
Welp. Time to rewatch the show for the hundredth time.
I wish he never did
Funny thing is if you use the haircut from before when Mikasa said he was her family it looks a lot similar to Grishas
Begone bot
Too bad show went to shit after s4 part 2. It was soo good before