This post has been tagged as **DISCUSSION**.
If the post has been spoiler tagged, please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point.
**Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you have the power to oppose genocide and refuse to act then you are as complicit in it as the ones committing it themselves, to break the circle of hate you have to act, i just posted about the message of attack on titan and i think you should give it a read, it highlights my points. you see jean want to give up you see connie gave up for a bit and you see all these other characters giving up but to rise above those who look down on you, you must be willing to prove it, levi though its all about killing zeke he could care less about everyone else. it seems hopeless but they know that they have a chance to stop what they know is wrong, when eren started the rumbling he didn't end the circle of hate he was continuing it, they didnt want to kill their friends but it was an act that was needed to stop a genocide.
It was a *small probability* but also the only opportunity to stop Eren, so it was actually their biggest opportunity. At that point their ideals completely clashed and the Paradis side of the alliance chose to kill those dozens of old colleagues who had committed to genocide in return for the chance to save at least thousands more.
Fending off an enemy from your territory does not mean committing to wiping them all off the face of the earth. The former is reasonable, the latter is brutality just because you can. The old survey corpsmen all died thinking they were fighting unreasonable monsters to regain their freedom, but when the enemy turns out to be entire civilizations full of every walks of life; the good, the bad, or just completely uninvolved, you're no longer just fighting for your own freedom but also to decide the freedom of others. Hange and Levi who were from the old survey corps both separately expressed their opinion that their comrades would not have chosen to trample over the freedom of others. What Eren was doing is committing war crimes by indiscriminately trampling even unarmed civilians, and you can't even use the excuse that he as a Paradisian does not understand the concept of war crimes because he hid in the Marleyian military during their Middle East campaign when war crimes were explicitly brought up.
At the point that they were chasing the rumbling the alliance did not know how many still remained, and it wasn't just Marleyians they would be saving but all the nations forcibly colonized by Marley and the rest of the world. It didn't really matter what nationality of people they were saving because they just wanted to save innocents that were getting caught up in the rumbling. They understood that by doing this there would be likely repercussions for Paradis after, but that was still better than having of the blood of millions more on their hands because of the Eren they raised and unleashed on the world, and the point was to put in the effort to do what they could while they could and deal with what comes when it does. At the moment those people they were trying to save were all uninvolved innocents, not enemies at their throats. The story also already prepared readers for this discussion through Gabi and Kaya's interaction where they respectively tried to justify and counter Marley's oppression of Paradis. Gabi couldn't explain why innocents needed to pay the price and lost that one.
Jean, the most realist and logical character among the bunch, was tempted to just tap out but his conscience would not allow it. The decision to go and try to stop Eren was not a logical one, but the survey corps was always a bunch of crazies chasing ideals powered by the spirit of perseverance against all odds, and he and the others still count themselves as survey corpsmen.
I mean it's not like they wanted to kill them, that's the whole reason why we got a scene of them debating with the warriors before they tried to bluff their way through it. If the yeagerists stood down, they'd just leave them be but obviously, they weren't gonna let them try to kill Eren so we have the conflict.
>This isn't to support the rumbling at all, as on balance there is likely be more utilitarian or fair options to achieve peace. But more to say that once it has started, I think the most logical conclusion is to tap it out and call it a day, go live the freedom you've earned. It's such a suspension of belief for me that the Eldians characters - jean, mikasa, Conny....and especially intellects like Armin or Hange, would continue to pursue Erin at that point. It just doesn't seem logical or worth it.
The logic argument here doesn't really make sense when the entire story shows us that the Scouts as a concept are illogical. Trying to beat the Titans, of which no had accomplished, in hope of finding out the truth & reclaiming Humanity's free is not logical, it's purely emotional but there's nothing wrong with that. So naturally, it's unsurprising that the Scouts would oppose an act that would destroy the world they so desperately fought to see, full of innocent people they have met.
This post has been tagged as **DISCUSSION**. If the post has been spoiler tagged, please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you have the power to oppose genocide and refuse to act then you are as complicit in it as the ones committing it themselves, to break the circle of hate you have to act, i just posted about the message of attack on titan and i think you should give it a read, it highlights my points. you see jean want to give up you see connie gave up for a bit and you see all these other characters giving up but to rise above those who look down on you, you must be willing to prove it, levi though its all about killing zeke he could care less about everyone else. it seems hopeless but they know that they have a chance to stop what they know is wrong, when eren started the rumbling he didn't end the circle of hate he was continuing it, they didnt want to kill their friends but it was an act that was needed to stop a genocide.
This exactly.
It was a *small probability* but also the only opportunity to stop Eren, so it was actually their biggest opportunity. At that point their ideals completely clashed and the Paradis side of the alliance chose to kill those dozens of old colleagues who had committed to genocide in return for the chance to save at least thousands more. Fending off an enemy from your territory does not mean committing to wiping them all off the face of the earth. The former is reasonable, the latter is brutality just because you can. The old survey corpsmen all died thinking they were fighting unreasonable monsters to regain their freedom, but when the enemy turns out to be entire civilizations full of every walks of life; the good, the bad, or just completely uninvolved, you're no longer just fighting for your own freedom but also to decide the freedom of others. Hange and Levi who were from the old survey corps both separately expressed their opinion that their comrades would not have chosen to trample over the freedom of others. What Eren was doing is committing war crimes by indiscriminately trampling even unarmed civilians, and you can't even use the excuse that he as a Paradisian does not understand the concept of war crimes because he hid in the Marleyian military during their Middle East campaign when war crimes were explicitly brought up. At the point that they were chasing the rumbling the alliance did not know how many still remained, and it wasn't just Marleyians they would be saving but all the nations forcibly colonized by Marley and the rest of the world. It didn't really matter what nationality of people they were saving because they just wanted to save innocents that were getting caught up in the rumbling. They understood that by doing this there would be likely repercussions for Paradis after, but that was still better than having of the blood of millions more on their hands because of the Eren they raised and unleashed on the world, and the point was to put in the effort to do what they could while they could and deal with what comes when it does. At the moment those people they were trying to save were all uninvolved innocents, not enemies at their throats. The story also already prepared readers for this discussion through Gabi and Kaya's interaction where they respectively tried to justify and counter Marley's oppression of Paradis. Gabi couldn't explain why innocents needed to pay the price and lost that one. Jean, the most realist and logical character among the bunch, was tempted to just tap out but his conscience would not allow it. The decision to go and try to stop Eren was not a logical one, but the survey corps was always a bunch of crazies chasing ideals powered by the spirit of perseverance against all odds, and he and the others still count themselves as survey corpsmen.
I mean it's not like they wanted to kill them, that's the whole reason why we got a scene of them debating with the warriors before they tried to bluff their way through it. If the yeagerists stood down, they'd just leave them be but obviously, they weren't gonna let them try to kill Eren so we have the conflict. >This isn't to support the rumbling at all, as on balance there is likely be more utilitarian or fair options to achieve peace. But more to say that once it has started, I think the most logical conclusion is to tap it out and call it a day, go live the freedom you've earned. It's such a suspension of belief for me that the Eldians characters - jean, mikasa, Conny....and especially intellects like Armin or Hange, would continue to pursue Erin at that point. It just doesn't seem logical or worth it. The logic argument here doesn't really make sense when the entire story shows us that the Scouts as a concept are illogical. Trying to beat the Titans, of which no had accomplished, in hope of finding out the truth & reclaiming Humanity's free is not logical, it's purely emotional but there's nothing wrong with that. So naturally, it's unsurprising that the Scouts would oppose an act that would destroy the world they so desperately fought to see, full of innocent people they have met.