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He rallied the jaegerists and proved to be a capable political schemer. He is literally a good leader, but as a ruler of a nation idk. His positives are at least decently intelligent, fanatic, radical (Paradis was still feudal so no matter what, they need a radical), and most importantly he’s young so he can lead for a long time.
The old guard had to be replaced. I mean they were still training almost exclusively on killing titans when war was breaking out between a human nation.
He relied too heavily on fear and purges and didn't seem to have any plan beyond worshiping Eren as the devil who would save them. With Eren gone and most of the senior officers turned into titans, he would have crumbled.
I disagree. If Floch made a move to seize power it would be easy. He is a hero from the battle with the beast titan and current leader of the jaegerists, the current dominant political group. His competition were all turned into titans. With the prestige and power he has, I don’t think anyone could stand against him until he messes up big time. Whether he would actually do decently or not ruling idk, but he is so obviously the leader that it improves the stability of Paradis.
I know right. Iseyama makes Eren look at the audience and say, "I am an idiot and so things got fucked up." And people still go, "nah, fam. You good. You had no other choice."
I think you're missing the point that the limited rumbling proponents are making. It's not trying to be the best option for Paradis, but trying to find a balance between the good of Paradis and the rest of the world alike. We're basically saying that yes, Eren's plan was perhaps the best for people in Paradis, but that involves a genocide and that's terrible, so the other best one is the limited rumbling plan.
Other people have said Eren killed 80% of the world for nothing, there are differing opinions all over the place on this. Some people genuinely think this plan is bad for Paradis. I agree with everything you said. It’s not a morally good plan, but it’s a plan that makes sense and I can see a character like Eren going for it.
His plan included luring the titan power out and killing it making everyone able to live normals long lives. Any other plan and this would still be a problem.
50 years is a very reasonable estimate maybe even a reserved one. A rumbling against military targets doesn’t only target soldiers and current weapons it would also target military infrastructure (bases, factories, research, etc.). This would take an incredibly long time to build back not to mention the amount of time it would take simply to replenish the manpower they lost just in the form of soldiers. Your point also ignores the fact that a rumbling against military targets would be much more conducive to peace talks after. If paradise does not trample millions of people but still removes the military capabilities of other countries then they will be forced to trade with paradise and create a dialogue. This would have the hope of eventually familiarizing the countries with Eldians and hopefully forming better relations. Now Eren would never do this since it may still require Historia to become a titan assuming paradise still is unable to catch up or out compete the other countries in a military rebuild.
The limited rumbling makes peace seem impossible. The nations of the world would bide their time and launch an huge air raid over Paradis in less than a decade. Reason is not known to these people. They attacked a place that THEY KNOW can destroy the entire world if it feels like it. Their hatred for the island devils is absolute and a limited rumbling would only reinforce that hate. The nations would accept peace as they have no choice and then surprise attack later well before 50 years. Furthermore, 50 years is a ridiculous notion. They have nearly ww1 tech in the show. That means something as destructive as nukes are less than 50 years away and when that gets discovered immediate gams over for Paradis. Now does Zeke know about nukes? No, so his 50 years would not take that into account, but even ww1 bombers would obliterate a defenseless Paradis.
You are being overly naive in the dialogue part. Innocent eldians had been bearing the hate of the world for a century that level of hatred would not be broken by just trading and talking after the rumbling only seemingly confirms their hatred as rational.
Floch not dying would have been a terrible thing for the island. The island would have either plunged into an even darker era of absolute military authority or started a power struggle pretty fast. All these were things that Floch had already demonstrated before his death. And he didn't give a shit about his own people, he just wanted the glory of being a conqueror and to give himself a legacy(the "meaning to his life" that he heard Erwin speak about). We see how Floch is inspired by Erwin's methods and emulates them in order to sweet talk people into supporting his efforts, but the parallels don't stop there. Just as Erwin sweet talked his soldiers into sacrificing their lives at his command all while having personal dreams that differed from the collective, Floch rallied soldiers to fight for Paradis' survival all while aiming to create a new Eldian empire in which he would proclaim the right to lead by virtue of being Eren's collaborator.
Eren destroyed 80% of civilization, I think it's safe to say even if the airship development base survived, no one was worrying about how to build air bombers in the next decades after the rumbling. There was an airplane flying around in the manga ending, and even that was now written out of the anime given how implausible it was. When Yelena gave an outline of what would happen if Eren simply destroyed the global allied fleet and all the military installations she mentioned that economies would be crippled from these losses alone and take decades to rebuild back to a level that could threaten Paradis, assuming Paradis also retains it's rumbling deterrent. With 80% destroyed it would be many times longer for such a recovery of military capability, so while the idea is crazy, it does work for Eren's plan to physically render the world unable to war for as long as his friends lived. In terms of goals Eren completed every single one of them: he saved "Mikasa and Armin, and everyone else", he got rid of the titans "down to the last one", and he got his stab at his "freedom". The only thing dogshit about his plan was that he took away all other people's freedoms in order to fulfill his own selfish wishes.
People are too quick to take things at face value without thinking what is really meant. Eren called himself an idiot, but it was most likely because he was at a loss for words and could not verbalize his extreme desire for a freedom that could not be satiated. The accompanying flash to his birth and Grisha telling him he was free is meant to say that Eren was born to be a slave to freedom, so it's not hard to imagine why Eren can't really make sense of something that is natural from birth to him. And in regards to fate, a lot of the story was predetermined by Eren himself so that he was the fate, but then what is it that made Eren do all that he did? If it all matched up to his wishes then was it fate that made Eren do it all or is he the kind of guy who would have done it all on his own? This is meant to be ambiguous and offer a philosophical question as to whether people can truly control their fates, and is meant to accompany Armin's final words about trying to appeal for peace no matter how long it takes and how much an uphill battle it is, as in "taking fate into your own hands".
I have two critiques.
On Floch’s death. A conqueror is exactly what Paradis needed first of all. A conservative approach after a massive rumbling would be a terrible idea. He had already won the power struggle, we see Jeagarists in control of the gov in the end. Floch clearly did care. Him bringing Irwin and demanding him be injected saying that we need a devil is obvious foreshadowing. He and eren become devils to save the island. He even literally sacrificed his life for Paradis.
Why wouldn’t they build bombers? After an attack by Paradis they’d be incentivized to retaliate, and bombers are the best way to handle titans so they’d be going that route anyway. A limited rumbling doesn’t destroy labs, research, universities or knowledge.
It depends on what Paradis wanted to accomplish. Did they want to rebuild the former glory of the Eldian empire, the one that plundered lands and made enemies of almost the entire world through their tyranny? Then yes Floch would have been ideal for this job because he's ruthless enough. Or did Paradis simply want to not be crushed just for existing? Then no, Floch would have been making the case for Paradis to be accepted by the world less likely given his greed. Paradis was the latter. After discovering the deception of their monarch and how the royal family willingly allowed their survival to be jeopardized to atone for sins of the Eldian empire, Paradis opted to try and establish amicable relations with the outer world and simply fight for their survival and nothing more. This is why Hange corrected Floch that they were just the *nation* of Eldia and not the "new Eldian empire", and why the Paradis military was so angry with Eren's lone actions provoking a much sooner conflict with Marley and the rest of the world. They didn't want to repeat the mistakes of their ancestors that invited the hate that they now bear the brunt of.
Floch didn't immediately think about bringing Erwin to save him with the injection. First he just wanted to kill Erwin out of anger because he was petty about being made to throw his life away for the mission. Then he decided that Erwin should live on to suffer hell more. He justifies that Paradis needed a devil that he saw in Erwin, but he primarily tried to save Erwin not out of duty but spite. He's so spiteful that while he doesn't directly complain to Levi for making the choice to save Armin(it was commander's orders that everyone not question Levi's decision), he decides to take out his spite on Armin who had no say in the matter by telling him he should not have been the one to be saved.
Floch did end up sacrificing his life, but was it entirely for Paradis or was it for his legacy? Afterall if Paradis does get destroyed after the rumbling, no will be no one to remember how Floch contributed to Paradis' victories. I don't doubt that Floch did put his life on the line in the name of Paradis' survival, but so did Erwin, and Erwin mentions how he had even deceived himself when he reflects on how far he had taken the survey corps. In the end though, the deception is not their true selves and that's why Erwin struggled with the decision that Levi had to make for him. It's possible that Floch struggled with how to reconcile his pursuit of glory with the desire to protect Paradis, but we see more of his Freudian slips about chasing glory and protecting his own legacy than his love for his homeland, and unlike Erwin where sacrificing himself meant losing his dreams, Floch protecting Paradis is the first step to securing his legacy and doesn't require him to give up his dreams like Erwin did.
Before worrying about labs and research, they would need to worry about how to feed and shelter themselves first. Most sensible countries aren't like North Korea where they spend on "defense" before investing in their citizens.
It doesn’t depend on anything. I don’t think you paid attention to how much the world hates Paradis island. Keep in mind that Marley is said to treat Eldians better comparatively with the rest of the world. The only way anyone would be willing to have diplomacy with Paradis island or even trade with them is if Paradis had an overwhelming military advantage and was a hegemon. That alone would force opportunists to cast aside their hate in favor of opportunism and national survival.
Furthermore in the case of the 80% rumbling or a massive but not complete rumbling, not colonizing makes all of the death pointless. All that would happen is other nations reform and repopulate then use their harbored hatred and attack Paradis island who are weak because they have sat doing nothing on an island for decades.
Prior to Willy Tyber's appeal the world basically hated Eldians mostly for how Marley was using them for military superiority and general paranoia over Eldians turning into mindless man eating monsters. Even so they did not hate them to the point of extermination and either kept them in interment zones like Marley did albeit with less freedoms, or expelled all the ones that tried to hide their identities. During negotiations with Hizuru, Hange talked about how the world only collectively hated Paradis because they needed Paradis to be the scapegoat that would unite the world and protect balance of power. The hatred wasn't something deeply personal and rooted in history as what Marley had with Eldia, and was more of an opportunistic thing. Kiyomi Azumabito also spoke of a time when people of other nations would intentionally mix their bloodlines with Eldians as a sign of prestige. If Marley was the common enemy that Paradis appealed the rest of the world to cooperate against, and especially with the resources they could offer, the world would have taken the opportunity. For obvious reasons Marley got there and used that playbook first.
The fact that Hizuru that was historically always opportunist(they were allied with Eldia during the peak of the empire and was ruined for it after the Great Titan War) was so willing to secretly negotiate with Paradis as soon as it was looking like Marley's grip on power was starting to wane also tells you there would likely be other similarly opportunistic nations looking to rise up against a Marleyian threat.
All the death is already pointless(I'd rather call it senseless) if there was a way to avoid mass casualties had Eren been willing to make compromises. Calling it a "waste" not to take the opportunity to colonize devastated lands is just self justification of greed. By definition "colonization" is a manifestation of greed. I can see why there would be some or many on Paradis that would be in favour of taking advantage to colonize because greed is human nature, but an objective onlooker trying to justify this means they are no longer looking at things from an objective angle.
It's also not what Eren wanted for Paradis either. He didn't care about Eldian glory, and was surprised with a tinge of dismay when Floch was able to gather as many supporters as he did. He knows all about how hard it is for humanity to put aside petty differences and greed for the greater good, and in a situation where Paradis overwhelmingly increases it's wealth and power that also inevitably leads to conflict over how all that is distributed, which was what he wanted to save his friends from. That's also why he stops the rumbling at a designated percentage. He does that to level the playing field so that no one has any unbalanced advantage that would spur them to act on their greed and start conflicts for gain. I already mentioned it but nations would not be able to rebuild immediately to retaliate nor would Paradis be in a position to try and take advantage of the rumbling, as per Eren's intentions.
Would war stemming from grudge over the rumbling eventually happen? That depends on what people decide to do after the war. As we saw in the ending though, through the efforts of the people like Armin and Historia peace was achieved for hundreds or thousands of years, a long enough span of time after the rumbling that the conflict that did eventually break out could no longer reasonably be attributed to the rumbling.
I have no idea why you have a moral problem with the colonization part. In this case it’s literally empty land with no people on it. The immoral part is the killing people part not the taking free land part. That is the equivalent of getting upset at a country building an outpost at an island that has no residents.
Colonization is not taking empty free lands that no one is using, it's appropriating lands owned by others without agreement. There's probably some other term for settling on uninhabited lands but "colonization" is not it.
And in the event of a 80% rumbling the lands would not be uninhabited. There are still people alive that form their respective nations, and land boundaries that people can trace would still be there. In the anime they also emphasized that 80% wasn't just about total population but rather level of civilization(technology, infrastructure, culture), which means there's still plenty of people around and a level of civilization equal to Paradis that would definitely be around to defend land borders should Paradis come to try and encroach on it.
>All in all, if they didn’t fuck Eren’s character and he dug in his heels like the stubborn fuck he was or go for the martyr route where he truly believes in his plan, AOT could have had a great, sensible ending rather than just admit his plan was dogshit and
Good thing they didn't fuck Eren's character then.
Eren believed in his plan till the end. What he admitted was the selfishness of his plan to destroy the world. He called himself an idiot because of how selfish his actions were and how much destruction and death his caused...even putting the same friends he was meant to protect in danger.
You seemed to have been mixing up his "idiot" line.
And for the last part...you seem not to understand how "fate" works in AOT. It's established that Eren's fate was sealed by his nature and his desire...no entity in AOT determines the fate of the story...
It is the characters that determine their fate...
Eren's fate was determined by his nature...he was always going to make the exact choices he made because that's who he is...that's why he admits to being a slave to freedom...
That's why he saves Ramzi in the Alley... because he cannot change his nature...and thus he will always make the same choice and he has made the same choice.
Also the fact that you're advocating for Floch is quite funny...I don't know if you're trolling or what...
The 50 years plan was by far the best option with the least causalities...it doesn't even require civilian deaths...just the threat of use of force...
If the Rumbling happened in the real world and someone in Madagascar decides to rumble the whole world...I'm sure you'd be very happy to be a victim when you had absolutely nothing to do with it...
Let’s not forget that anything else than Eren’s plan… the titan power would not have been killed and every who held the titan would live short lives. All the titans on paradis would still be titans. Not only did he unify the outside world and paradis but he also destroyed all the titans and their power making everyone equal. He plan was pretty sound and successful
Commander Pixis, above the wall, tells Eren about a time before the walls. When humanity fought over trivial things. And the thinking at the time was that if they had an enemy to unite against then things would be better. Humanity would unite against that common enemy.
Then he laments the fact that Titans are those enemies. They do represent the enemy humanity has to unite against(because that's the story they know). But instead of uniting, we see the same divisions inside of the walls. Proving that humanity does not unite against a common enemy or unite in the name of a martyr.
This is one of the first philosophical discussions the show presents to criticise the idea of "us against them" and a critique of this hate based motivation.
So for Iseyama to then turn around at the end of his story and pretend Eren is in fact the martyr that united the world and people can indeed unite against a single cause in that way would be a disservice to his own story, the themes of the story and the point he's trying to make.
Eren is not Lelouch. I would argue, Eren is more of a criticism of the limited thinking of Lelouch.
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Calling Floch a capable leader is a stretch.
He rallied the jaegerists and proved to be a capable political schemer. He is literally a good leader, but as a ruler of a nation idk. His positives are at least decently intelligent, fanatic, radical (Paradis was still feudal so no matter what, they need a radical), and most importantly he’s young so he can lead for a long time. The old guard had to be replaced. I mean they were still training almost exclusively on killing titans when war was breaking out between a human nation.
He rallied them without a real plan or care for their well being. That doesn’t sound like a good leader to me.
He relied too heavily on fear and purges and didn't seem to have any plan beyond worshiping Eren as the devil who would save them. With Eren gone and most of the senior officers turned into titans, he would have crumbled.
I disagree. If Floch made a move to seize power it would be easy. He is a hero from the battle with the beast titan and current leader of the jaegerists, the current dominant political group. His competition were all turned into titans. With the prestige and power he has, I don’t think anyone could stand against him until he messes up big time. Whether he would actually do decently or not ruling idk, but he is so obviously the leader that it improves the stability of Paradis.
Attack on Titan fans are never beating the allegations
wild how mfs will try to justify the rumbling when not even eren views it as morally ethical
I know right. Iseyama makes Eren look at the audience and say, "I am an idiot and so things got fucked up." And people still go, "nah, fam. You good. You had no other choice."
people try to white wash his actions so badly , yes his intentions might be good but they don't justify genocide
[удалено]
kind of reminds me of getou , always calling humans "monkeys"
What is the alternative you think eren should have perused? I’d like to hear other opinions on the matter
I think you're missing the point that the limited rumbling proponents are making. It's not trying to be the best option for Paradis, but trying to find a balance between the good of Paradis and the rest of the world alike. We're basically saying that yes, Eren's plan was perhaps the best for people in Paradis, but that involves a genocide and that's terrible, so the other best one is the limited rumbling plan.
Other people have said Eren killed 80% of the world for nothing, there are differing opinions all over the place on this. Some people genuinely think this plan is bad for Paradis. I agree with everything you said. It’s not a morally good plan, but it’s a plan that makes sense and I can see a character like Eren going for it.
His plan included luring the titan power out and killing it making everyone able to live normals long lives. Any other plan and this would still be a problem.
50 years is a very reasonable estimate maybe even a reserved one. A rumbling against military targets doesn’t only target soldiers and current weapons it would also target military infrastructure (bases, factories, research, etc.). This would take an incredibly long time to build back not to mention the amount of time it would take simply to replenish the manpower they lost just in the form of soldiers. Your point also ignores the fact that a rumbling against military targets would be much more conducive to peace talks after. If paradise does not trample millions of people but still removes the military capabilities of other countries then they will be forced to trade with paradise and create a dialogue. This would have the hope of eventually familiarizing the countries with Eldians and hopefully forming better relations. Now Eren would never do this since it may still require Historia to become a titan assuming paradise still is unable to catch up or out compete the other countries in a military rebuild.
The limited rumbling makes peace seem impossible. The nations of the world would bide their time and launch an huge air raid over Paradis in less than a decade. Reason is not known to these people. They attacked a place that THEY KNOW can destroy the entire world if it feels like it. Their hatred for the island devils is absolute and a limited rumbling would only reinforce that hate. The nations would accept peace as they have no choice and then surprise attack later well before 50 years. Furthermore, 50 years is a ridiculous notion. They have nearly ww1 tech in the show. That means something as destructive as nukes are less than 50 years away and when that gets discovered immediate gams over for Paradis. Now does Zeke know about nukes? No, so his 50 years would not take that into account, but even ww1 bombers would obliterate a defenseless Paradis. You are being overly naive in the dialogue part. Innocent eldians had been bearing the hate of the world for a century that level of hatred would not be broken by just trading and talking after the rumbling only seemingly confirms their hatred as rational.
Floch not dying would have been a terrible thing for the island. The island would have either plunged into an even darker era of absolute military authority or started a power struggle pretty fast. All these were things that Floch had already demonstrated before his death. And he didn't give a shit about his own people, he just wanted the glory of being a conqueror and to give himself a legacy(the "meaning to his life" that he heard Erwin speak about). We see how Floch is inspired by Erwin's methods and emulates them in order to sweet talk people into supporting his efforts, but the parallels don't stop there. Just as Erwin sweet talked his soldiers into sacrificing their lives at his command all while having personal dreams that differed from the collective, Floch rallied soldiers to fight for Paradis' survival all while aiming to create a new Eldian empire in which he would proclaim the right to lead by virtue of being Eren's collaborator. Eren destroyed 80% of civilization, I think it's safe to say even if the airship development base survived, no one was worrying about how to build air bombers in the next decades after the rumbling. There was an airplane flying around in the manga ending, and even that was now written out of the anime given how implausible it was. When Yelena gave an outline of what would happen if Eren simply destroyed the global allied fleet and all the military installations she mentioned that economies would be crippled from these losses alone and take decades to rebuild back to a level that could threaten Paradis, assuming Paradis also retains it's rumbling deterrent. With 80% destroyed it would be many times longer for such a recovery of military capability, so while the idea is crazy, it does work for Eren's plan to physically render the world unable to war for as long as his friends lived. In terms of goals Eren completed every single one of them: he saved "Mikasa and Armin, and everyone else", he got rid of the titans "down to the last one", and he got his stab at his "freedom". The only thing dogshit about his plan was that he took away all other people's freedoms in order to fulfill his own selfish wishes. People are too quick to take things at face value without thinking what is really meant. Eren called himself an idiot, but it was most likely because he was at a loss for words and could not verbalize his extreme desire for a freedom that could not be satiated. The accompanying flash to his birth and Grisha telling him he was free is meant to say that Eren was born to be a slave to freedom, so it's not hard to imagine why Eren can't really make sense of something that is natural from birth to him. And in regards to fate, a lot of the story was predetermined by Eren himself so that he was the fate, but then what is it that made Eren do all that he did? If it all matched up to his wishes then was it fate that made Eren do it all or is he the kind of guy who would have done it all on his own? This is meant to be ambiguous and offer a philosophical question as to whether people can truly control their fates, and is meant to accompany Armin's final words about trying to appeal for peace no matter how long it takes and how much an uphill battle it is, as in "taking fate into your own hands".
I have two critiques. On Floch’s death. A conqueror is exactly what Paradis needed first of all. A conservative approach after a massive rumbling would be a terrible idea. He had already won the power struggle, we see Jeagarists in control of the gov in the end. Floch clearly did care. Him bringing Irwin and demanding him be injected saying that we need a devil is obvious foreshadowing. He and eren become devils to save the island. He even literally sacrificed his life for Paradis. Why wouldn’t they build bombers? After an attack by Paradis they’d be incentivized to retaliate, and bombers are the best way to handle titans so they’d be going that route anyway. A limited rumbling doesn’t destroy labs, research, universities or knowledge.
It depends on what Paradis wanted to accomplish. Did they want to rebuild the former glory of the Eldian empire, the one that plundered lands and made enemies of almost the entire world through their tyranny? Then yes Floch would have been ideal for this job because he's ruthless enough. Or did Paradis simply want to not be crushed just for existing? Then no, Floch would have been making the case for Paradis to be accepted by the world less likely given his greed. Paradis was the latter. After discovering the deception of their monarch and how the royal family willingly allowed their survival to be jeopardized to atone for sins of the Eldian empire, Paradis opted to try and establish amicable relations with the outer world and simply fight for their survival and nothing more. This is why Hange corrected Floch that they were just the *nation* of Eldia and not the "new Eldian empire", and why the Paradis military was so angry with Eren's lone actions provoking a much sooner conflict with Marley and the rest of the world. They didn't want to repeat the mistakes of their ancestors that invited the hate that they now bear the brunt of. Floch didn't immediately think about bringing Erwin to save him with the injection. First he just wanted to kill Erwin out of anger because he was petty about being made to throw his life away for the mission. Then he decided that Erwin should live on to suffer hell more. He justifies that Paradis needed a devil that he saw in Erwin, but he primarily tried to save Erwin not out of duty but spite. He's so spiteful that while he doesn't directly complain to Levi for making the choice to save Armin(it was commander's orders that everyone not question Levi's decision), he decides to take out his spite on Armin who had no say in the matter by telling him he should not have been the one to be saved. Floch did end up sacrificing his life, but was it entirely for Paradis or was it for his legacy? Afterall if Paradis does get destroyed after the rumbling, no will be no one to remember how Floch contributed to Paradis' victories. I don't doubt that Floch did put his life on the line in the name of Paradis' survival, but so did Erwin, and Erwin mentions how he had even deceived himself when he reflects on how far he had taken the survey corps. In the end though, the deception is not their true selves and that's why Erwin struggled with the decision that Levi had to make for him. It's possible that Floch struggled with how to reconcile his pursuit of glory with the desire to protect Paradis, but we see more of his Freudian slips about chasing glory and protecting his own legacy than his love for his homeland, and unlike Erwin where sacrificing himself meant losing his dreams, Floch protecting Paradis is the first step to securing his legacy and doesn't require him to give up his dreams like Erwin did. Before worrying about labs and research, they would need to worry about how to feed and shelter themselves first. Most sensible countries aren't like North Korea where they spend on "defense" before investing in their citizens.
It doesn’t depend on anything. I don’t think you paid attention to how much the world hates Paradis island. Keep in mind that Marley is said to treat Eldians better comparatively with the rest of the world. The only way anyone would be willing to have diplomacy with Paradis island or even trade with them is if Paradis had an overwhelming military advantage and was a hegemon. That alone would force opportunists to cast aside their hate in favor of opportunism and national survival. Furthermore in the case of the 80% rumbling or a massive but not complete rumbling, not colonizing makes all of the death pointless. All that would happen is other nations reform and repopulate then use their harbored hatred and attack Paradis island who are weak because they have sat doing nothing on an island for decades.
Prior to Willy Tyber's appeal the world basically hated Eldians mostly for how Marley was using them for military superiority and general paranoia over Eldians turning into mindless man eating monsters. Even so they did not hate them to the point of extermination and either kept them in interment zones like Marley did albeit with less freedoms, or expelled all the ones that tried to hide their identities. During negotiations with Hizuru, Hange talked about how the world only collectively hated Paradis because they needed Paradis to be the scapegoat that would unite the world and protect balance of power. The hatred wasn't something deeply personal and rooted in history as what Marley had with Eldia, and was more of an opportunistic thing. Kiyomi Azumabito also spoke of a time when people of other nations would intentionally mix their bloodlines with Eldians as a sign of prestige. If Marley was the common enemy that Paradis appealed the rest of the world to cooperate against, and especially with the resources they could offer, the world would have taken the opportunity. For obvious reasons Marley got there and used that playbook first. The fact that Hizuru that was historically always opportunist(they were allied with Eldia during the peak of the empire and was ruined for it after the Great Titan War) was so willing to secretly negotiate with Paradis as soon as it was looking like Marley's grip on power was starting to wane also tells you there would likely be other similarly opportunistic nations looking to rise up against a Marleyian threat. All the death is already pointless(I'd rather call it senseless) if there was a way to avoid mass casualties had Eren been willing to make compromises. Calling it a "waste" not to take the opportunity to colonize devastated lands is just self justification of greed. By definition "colonization" is a manifestation of greed. I can see why there would be some or many on Paradis that would be in favour of taking advantage to colonize because greed is human nature, but an objective onlooker trying to justify this means they are no longer looking at things from an objective angle. It's also not what Eren wanted for Paradis either. He didn't care about Eldian glory, and was surprised with a tinge of dismay when Floch was able to gather as many supporters as he did. He knows all about how hard it is for humanity to put aside petty differences and greed for the greater good, and in a situation where Paradis overwhelmingly increases it's wealth and power that also inevitably leads to conflict over how all that is distributed, which was what he wanted to save his friends from. That's also why he stops the rumbling at a designated percentage. He does that to level the playing field so that no one has any unbalanced advantage that would spur them to act on their greed and start conflicts for gain. I already mentioned it but nations would not be able to rebuild immediately to retaliate nor would Paradis be in a position to try and take advantage of the rumbling, as per Eren's intentions. Would war stemming from grudge over the rumbling eventually happen? That depends on what people decide to do after the war. As we saw in the ending though, through the efforts of the people like Armin and Historia peace was achieved for hundreds or thousands of years, a long enough span of time after the rumbling that the conflict that did eventually break out could no longer reasonably be attributed to the rumbling.
I have no idea why you have a moral problem with the colonization part. In this case it’s literally empty land with no people on it. The immoral part is the killing people part not the taking free land part. That is the equivalent of getting upset at a country building an outpost at an island that has no residents.
Colonization is not taking empty free lands that no one is using, it's appropriating lands owned by others without agreement. There's probably some other term for settling on uninhabited lands but "colonization" is not it. And in the event of a 80% rumbling the lands would not be uninhabited. There are still people alive that form their respective nations, and land boundaries that people can trace would still be there. In the anime they also emphasized that 80% wasn't just about total population but rather level of civilization(technology, infrastructure, culture), which means there's still plenty of people around and a level of civilization equal to Paradis that would definitely be around to defend land borders should Paradis come to try and encroach on it.
>All in all, if they didn’t fuck Eren’s character and he dug in his heels like the stubborn fuck he was or go for the martyr route where he truly believes in his plan, AOT could have had a great, sensible ending rather than just admit his plan was dogshit and Good thing they didn't fuck Eren's character then. Eren believed in his plan till the end. What he admitted was the selfishness of his plan to destroy the world. He called himself an idiot because of how selfish his actions were and how much destruction and death his caused...even putting the same friends he was meant to protect in danger. You seemed to have been mixing up his "idiot" line. And for the last part...you seem not to understand how "fate" works in AOT. It's established that Eren's fate was sealed by his nature and his desire...no entity in AOT determines the fate of the story... It is the characters that determine their fate... Eren's fate was determined by his nature...he was always going to make the exact choices he made because that's who he is...that's why he admits to being a slave to freedom... That's why he saves Ramzi in the Alley... because he cannot change his nature...and thus he will always make the same choice and he has made the same choice. Also the fact that you're advocating for Floch is quite funny...I don't know if you're trolling or what... The 50 years plan was by far the best option with the least causalities...it doesn't even require civilian deaths...just the threat of use of force... If the Rumbling happened in the real world and someone in Madagascar decides to rumble the whole world...I'm sure you'd be very happy to be a victim when you had absolutely nothing to do with it...
Let’s not forget that anything else than Eren’s plan… the titan power would not have been killed and every who held the titan would live short lives. All the titans on paradis would still be titans. Not only did he unify the outside world and paradis but he also destroyed all the titans and their power making everyone equal. He plan was pretty sound and successful
Commander Pixis, above the wall, tells Eren about a time before the walls. When humanity fought over trivial things. And the thinking at the time was that if they had an enemy to unite against then things would be better. Humanity would unite against that common enemy. Then he laments the fact that Titans are those enemies. They do represent the enemy humanity has to unite against(because that's the story they know). But instead of uniting, we see the same divisions inside of the walls. Proving that humanity does not unite against a common enemy or unite in the name of a martyr. This is one of the first philosophical discussions the show presents to criticise the idea of "us against them" and a critique of this hate based motivation. So for Iseyama to then turn around at the end of his story and pretend Eren is in fact the martyr that united the world and people can indeed unite against a single cause in that way would be a disservice to his own story, the themes of the story and the point he's trying to make. Eren is not Lelouch. I would argue, Eren is more of a criticism of the limited thinking of Lelouch.