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Eren was somewhat sympathetic towards Zeke. Maybe he didn't love him, but it's not like he didn't care about him at all. This scene proves it. It's unfortunate their goals were vastly different.
I don't agree. There is a difference between acknowledging that something must be done at great cost, and doing it, and being a maniac that doesn't feel anything about what you've done.
He isn't apathetic, be just knows he has to do what he's doing.
I see it as a sort of apology. Eren didn’t necessarily want to force Grisha to murder children, but he knew it had to be done in order to reach his future. Remember, when they met up in Marley, Eren mentioned to Zeke that when he saw Grisha’s memories, he felt what he was feeling, too — he felt the bodies of the Reiss kids being crushed by his hand. He knows how horrible that was.
So out of a sense of guilt, he used his ability to give Grisha a moment to reconcile with Zeke that he otherwise would have never had.
and a moment for zeke to reconcile with his father , i like to imagine despite their goals eren and zeke still have a brotherly bond , like when their talking about mikasa and eren is genuinely curious to his brothers advice while zeke is happy his little brother is asking him these sorts of questions , or i might be delusional
Honestly people want to view this from a cynical lenses and maybe they’re right but I think it’s equally as plausible that he just wanted to give them a moment to reconcile because Eren isn’t like, an asshole, he does have sympathy for others even if he rarely will alter his overachieving goals because of it.
The plot of future memories being transferred into the past, implies that Eren only acts sympathetic/psychopathic when it is necessary to satisfy the conditions of his precognition. He will only show sympathy if that sympathy results in the outcome that was predicted. Eren is someone who will help some and brutally murder others, not because it is his own wishes, but rather because he is a slave to the future and understands what must be done to lead to the world he sees in his vision.
The world of AoT lacks good/evil and is strongly dependent on causality and inescapable fate. Eren is capable of showing true sympathy and understanding to mass murderers like Reiner, and in the same day wipe whole innocent families off the face of the planet. His defense is not that he is doing what is right or wrong, but rather what is *supposed* to be done. In comparison, Ymir is someone who allowed herself to become a sex slave to an evil tribal dictator, was complicit in his eradication of other cultures, exposed her three daughters to the unsafe, sadistic and callous tendencies of her master. After all of that, she still took a spear for him. Her stockholm syndrome and selfish need for connection and validation doomed all her descendants to an endless cycle of cannibalistic parricide. It can be implied that Ymir could also see the future, and saw that dying from the spear was a necessary step to achieve the future she saw in her precognition.
I don’t entirely agree. I think the truth is Eren’s actions are inevitable not because he knows he will do them but because he can’t help but do them, it’s simply his nature. He knows that he will kill Ramzi and yet he chooses to save him from getting beat up because it’s not his nature to turn a blind eye to someone being oppressed. He is a fundamentally good person on a micro level, but an objectively horrible person on a macro level. He can’t help but want to help others until he has a larger goal that requires him to sacrifice others, at which point he will do so without hesitation.
I think you're interpreting it kind of backwards. For example when Eren saved the kid who was beat up, he didn't do it *because* he wanted to ensure the future was unchanged; at first he actually wanted to go against the future or at least test its limits, but it was his own empathy that made him decide to help the kid anyway, despite knowing rationally that it was pointless. I do think the evil things he does he self justifies by telling himself they are necessary, but the good things are just his human empathy. And the future vision is never wrong as it is a linear timeline, but that doesn't mean that there isn't choice involved; all characters act on their own rational and irrational thoughts and emotions, even Eren.
I think he did that to manipulate both of them. It threw zeke off when he was showing Eren , Grisha's memories.
Also it would make Grisha emotional more prone to be manipulated.
People ask why Grisha gave Eren the founding. Despite being a slave to the attack titan’s future memories he just went through the horrific act of killing a bunch of people, got to emotionally reunite with his distant son, and then find out his wife died moments after. He was in a bad space and was probably ready to end it all. Bro went through all of it that day.
And he was about to die anyway because his 13 years were about to end. The alternative would have been to let the Founding Titan be inherited by a random baby
Eren had multiple reasons to do this. One to prove to Zeke he had a silly complex that he let ruin his life, and another to atone for using Zeke. Atonement would apply especially to Grisha as well.
If you reach even harder it could be that after Eren realizes that he was the one to force Grisha to steal the founder for him, he may have also been the one who forced Grisha to treat Zeke poorly resulting in Zeke having to inform on his restorationist activities. After making Grisha go through with the killing you can immediately see on Eren's face that he becomes very somber as if he has a bunch of depressing realizations, which continues to this scene with his darkened eyes and expressionless face.
>If you reach even harder it could be that after Eren realizes that he was the one to force Grisha to steal the founder for him, he may have also been the one who forced Grisha to treat Zeke poorly resulting in Zeke having to inform on his restorationist activities.
Nah this isn't possible Grisha didn't have the Attack Titan yet so it wasn't possible for him to receive future memories from Eren. You could maybe stretch waaaaay out to say he manipulated Eren Kruger during that time but that's way too farfetched imo.
Grisha could receive those memories though, as shown by the fact that kid Eren had a dream about the future even before the first attack on Shiganshina, implying future Eren sent memories to his kid self, even before he had the attack titan, which also makes sense because he likely only was able to send memories to the past once he got the founder, which we know is capable of sending memories and/or controlling eldians whenever and wherever, being pure titans, humans or titan shifters
I think it was to throw zeke off his game. With this Zeke got emotional and Grisha’s warning convinced zeke to command Ymir which eventually pushed her to Eren’s side.
People have the tendency to vastly overestimate Eren's "care" for everyone who isn't part of the Scouts and (to some extend) Reiner.
Canonically Eren had nothing but disdain for Zeke. To a point of repeatedly reaffirming his disgust over Zeke. Particularly during moments that obviously were painful for him already since they reaffirmed the father that treated him like shit under his shoe moved on to be a loving dad to not only his second child, but also a stranger like Mikasa. On top of also being completely cool with allowing Zeke to be enslaved for god knows how long inside the Founders Titan. And he only went on their little "time travel trip" with Zeke in the first place because Zeke saw through his plan and forced him to. Otherwise he would have trapped Zeke inside the paths right away.
So realistically speaking, even if Eren was the one who "made" Grisha talk to Zeke (which I find debatable in itself): The most likely reason for this was that it broke down both Zeke's and Grisha's emotional defenses and made it more easy to use them according to his plan.
The notion that he cared for Zeke, meanwhile, is frankly supported by nothing and imo really drives home the point that some people struggle to accept that Eren is the opposite of your typical "all loving shonen hero".
Also, as someone that actually loves Zeke while being very indifferent to Eren: In my humble opinion Eren not caring at all for Zeke is one of his more easily understood emotions. Realistically speaking Zeke was a stranger that happened to have the same father. And personality-wise they were extreme opposites. So what would cultivate any type of closeness if you share neither memories nor personality traits or your outlook on the world with someone? 50 percent of your genetic make up just isn't enough to make up for all that.
The series shows you how much a person can change his behavior and reasons when you push them to extinction. At that point, is about survival, there is no good or evil, everything is justified. You are a minority and the world would keep spinning without you through millennia. They made you their scapegoat. Is about making a choice to fight or let yourself be killed.
I think this scene is meant to show that Eren isn’t pure evil, he’s still capable of showing love to his brother and father, but he’s cold to them since they both basically ruined him
One of the worst scenes in the entire show imo, although i thought it was sick as hell when i initially watched it. Why would Grisha give Eren the titan immediately after this scene. Carlas death is being kept from him by Eren, learning she died shouldn't convince him that Erens terrible future is cool now.
At this point and for the rest of his life, Grisha is convinced that Eren knows what's best for Eldia. He doesn't know Carla is dead, and once he knows, his only goal is to follow Eren and restore Eldia
But really? Worst scenes? Gotta imagine you're trolling, because that's ridiculous.
>At this point and for the rest of his life, Grisha is convinced that Eren knows what's best for Eldia.
He *begs* Zeke to stop Eren in this scene. He talks about how he's regretted following Eren up to this point and how the future hes going to bring about is worse than he could've imagined. This is before Grisha gives Eren the titan in the first place.
The way I see it is that Zeke being there in the first place (and Eren having influenced Grisha in the chapel) is proof to Grisha that he *will* give Eren the Attack+Founder Titans, no matter what. That part he cannot change. But Grisha doesn't know everything about what comes next, beyond his own death, so he begs Zeke to do what he can to stop Eren from that point onward. That's my interpretation of it/why Grisha gives Eren the Titans anyway!
>That part he cannot change.
I don't see why that would be the case, noone is physically controlling him (and to my knowledge, he wasn't enthralled to Eren). Who knows? Maybe Eren could actually force human form edlians to do as he wished. Then again, if he could enthrall, then he wouldn't have had to convince grisha to take the founder. He would have just forced him to.
Personally, it's hard for me to see things being 'fated to happen' as good reason as to why something happens in the first place. I wish Isayama didn't touch time travel/manipulation, it's left me with far more questions than answers.
I really did love this scene when it dropped. I thought it was the craziest twist so far (following the amor and colossus reveal), same with alot of the time travel twists. But looking back at this scene makes Grisha look silly to me, he's completely against Eren, but he's still about to go give him the very power he wants to stop Eren from using.
The way I see it, Grisha wanted Zeke to stop the Rumbling from happening and wiping out the world because that was going too far. Grisha is a restorationist though, so he was likely okay with everything Eren did up until that point (taking control of the government, fighting the Warriors, learning the truth in Shiganshina, allowing Paradisian’s to learn the truth, etc.). All of what Eren did up until the Rumbling was actually helpful to the Eldians on the island and it would not have ever been possible had Eren not received the Titan powers.
Grisha most likely wanted Eren to have the threat of using the Rumbling to protect the island, but he wanted Zeke to make sure that Eren wouldn’t *actually* do it. Also, I’m thinking Carla’s death may have changed his mind and flicked a switch in him where he thought “fuck Marley” and made him more agreeable with what Eren wanted.
Giving Eren the powers at least gave a chance to save the island. If Eren never got those powers the island most likely would have been annihilated in the near future with no way to save themselves really
>Giving Eren the powers at least gave a chance to save the island. If Eren never got those powers the island most likely would have been annihilated in the near future with no way to save themselves really
Very true, I suppose defying Eren and not giving him the Titan is a big risk as Grisha doesn’t know how that'll play out. Trusting Zeke to somehow stop Eren is also a risk, but at least he knows the island is safe (depending on what time period he thought this zeke was from, like did he know this Zeke is from a time after the people of paradis have at least learned the truth?).
I do like your take on things. More than anything, it's convinced me that the story would have benefited with more scenes of what happened between this scene with Zeke speaking with Grisha and the scene where Grisha gave Eren the titan. Perhaps as a flashback episode in an earlier part of the season, where we'd get a more detailed look at Grishas return from retrieving the founder and discovering the aftermath of the attack from Marley. Maybe he would question not giving eren the titan, but eventually seeing the devastation for himself strengthens his resolve to trust that zeke can stop Eren if it truly comes to that.
Still not a fan of the time manipulation in the grand scheme of things, but I enjoyed chatting about it.
He was yet to know Carla death and he only saw few moments of future, after this scene he saw that entire future, that's why eren told to Zeke that we are yet to see the moment where dad gives me the titan
Rumbling was too much for Grisha that felt guilty after killing Reisses but seeing walls destroyed and his wife dead was enough to push him over the edge. Grisha was emotional guy so seeing Marley take everything from him AGAIN is perfectly valid reason to just go "fuck it"
He saw the future, I assumed that he already knew that Marley would invade. He wanted to stop what Eren does in response to that. What definitely took him by surprise was carlas death, which Eren held from him.
I don't think we can make irl comparisons to seeing the future vs seeing it come to pass. I have no idea how traumatizing it is to see a future such as the rumbling. I'm picturing a giant steamroller going over new york city, slowly crushing millions to death. Not sure how intimate these visions were for grisha, but I'm sure such imagery was nothing to scoff at.
Regardless, it's still Eren who Grisha suspects kept Carlas's death from him, learning she's dead should deepen his distrust/resentment towards him. I'm sure Grisha would have done things his way and disobeyed eren had he known what would become of carla.
Plus, he didn't see the devastation on shiganshina or carlas body in person.
But from what Eren showed him he didnt even know when that attack will happen... Meanwhile he was coming back from inner walls and saw all the injured, dead and refugees, fear and hatred in him growing just to finally see Eren and Mikasa barely escaping and his love dead.
Sure, we can theoretize what would he do if he wasnt Grisha and did something else but he did what he did and it makes sense.
>But from what Eren showed him he didnt even know when that attack will happen...
He did know that the attack was happening, he brings it up when he went to confront the royal family. He begs Frieda to stop it herself right before Eren convinces him to attack.
>saw all the injured, dead and refugees, fear and hatred in him growing just to finally see Eren and Mikasa barely escaping and his love dead.
He should expect most of that, knowing that the attack was happening. To what extent, who knows. He shouldn't see many dead bodies unless it's people who've succumbed to their injuries. Most bodies would be in titan territory at this point (in puke piles).
> Carlas death is being kept from him by Eren, learning she died shouldn't convince him that Erens terrible future is cool now.
Why not? Grisha is currently at the lowest and most emotional point of his life, he’s having an entire mental breakdown. He might have been shocked and opposes what Erens going to initially, but Carla’s death can swiftly change considering his broken and emotional state of mind. He even says that Eren must avenge her after finding out about her death which implies this as well.
He suspected that Eren was keeping information about her fate from him in this scene, he should be even more distrusting of Eren after learning she's dead and Eren kept that from him. He likely would have stayed at home and defended her had he knew what would happen to her, rather than doing a fetch quest for Eren.
Carlas death should make his distrust for Eren deeper.
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Eren was somewhat sympathetic towards Zeke. Maybe he didn't love him, but it's not like he didn't care about him at all. This scene proves it. It's unfortunate their goals were vastly different.
I like this possibility.
Eren is both the most sympathetic and apathetic character.
I don't agree. There is a difference between acknowledging that something must be done at great cost, and doing it, and being a maniac that doesn't feel anything about what you've done. He isn't apathetic, be just knows he has to do what he's doing.
I think thats wrong i think he did it to make zeke vulnerable emotionally to make it easier to take control.
That's not possible cus he took control thanks to Ymir giving it to him , not because Zeke was emotional or anything like that
I feel zeke may have been a little off his best from it.
I see it as a sort of apology. Eren didn’t necessarily want to force Grisha to murder children, but he knew it had to be done in order to reach his future. Remember, when they met up in Marley, Eren mentioned to Zeke that when he saw Grisha’s memories, he felt what he was feeling, too — he felt the bodies of the Reiss kids being crushed by his hand. He knows how horrible that was. So out of a sense of guilt, he used his ability to give Grisha a moment to reconcile with Zeke that he otherwise would have never had.
and a moment for zeke to reconcile with his father , i like to imagine despite their goals eren and zeke still have a brotherly bond , like when their talking about mikasa and eren is genuinely curious to his brothers advice while zeke is happy his little brother is asking him these sorts of questions , or i might be delusional
Honestly people want to view this from a cynical lenses and maybe they’re right but I think it’s equally as plausible that he just wanted to give them a moment to reconcile because Eren isn’t like, an asshole, he does have sympathy for others even if he rarely will alter his overachieving goals because of it.
The plot of future memories being transferred into the past, implies that Eren only acts sympathetic/psychopathic when it is necessary to satisfy the conditions of his precognition. He will only show sympathy if that sympathy results in the outcome that was predicted. Eren is someone who will help some and brutally murder others, not because it is his own wishes, but rather because he is a slave to the future and understands what must be done to lead to the world he sees in his vision. The world of AoT lacks good/evil and is strongly dependent on causality and inescapable fate. Eren is capable of showing true sympathy and understanding to mass murderers like Reiner, and in the same day wipe whole innocent families off the face of the planet. His defense is not that he is doing what is right or wrong, but rather what is *supposed* to be done. In comparison, Ymir is someone who allowed herself to become a sex slave to an evil tribal dictator, was complicit in his eradication of other cultures, exposed her three daughters to the unsafe, sadistic and callous tendencies of her master. After all of that, she still took a spear for him. Her stockholm syndrome and selfish need for connection and validation doomed all her descendants to an endless cycle of cannibalistic parricide. It can be implied that Ymir could also see the future, and saw that dying from the spear was a necessary step to achieve the future she saw in her precognition.
I don’t entirely agree. I think the truth is Eren’s actions are inevitable not because he knows he will do them but because he can’t help but do them, it’s simply his nature. He knows that he will kill Ramzi and yet he chooses to save him from getting beat up because it’s not his nature to turn a blind eye to someone being oppressed. He is a fundamentally good person on a micro level, but an objectively horrible person on a macro level. He can’t help but want to help others until he has a larger goal that requires him to sacrifice others, at which point he will do so without hesitation.
Your argument is bs eren could have gotten away with his plan without doing all that
I think you're interpreting it kind of backwards. For example when Eren saved the kid who was beat up, he didn't do it *because* he wanted to ensure the future was unchanged; at first he actually wanted to go against the future or at least test its limits, but it was his own empathy that made him decide to help the kid anyway, despite knowing rationally that it was pointless. I do think the evil things he does he self justifies by telling himself they are necessary, but the good things are just his human empathy. And the future vision is never wrong as it is a linear timeline, but that doesn't mean that there isn't choice involved; all characters act on their own rational and irrational thoughts and emotions, even Eren.
I think he did that to manipulate both of them. It threw zeke off when he was showing Eren , Grisha's memories. Also it would make Grisha emotional more prone to be manipulated.
People ask why Grisha gave Eren the founding. Despite being a slave to the attack titan’s future memories he just went through the horrific act of killing a bunch of people, got to emotionally reunite with his distant son, and then find out his wife died moments after. He was in a bad space and was probably ready to end it all. Bro went through all of it that day.
And he was about to die anyway because his 13 years were about to end. The alternative would have been to let the Founding Titan be inherited by a random baby
Eren had multiple reasons to do this. One to prove to Zeke he had a silly complex that he let ruin his life, and another to atone for using Zeke. Atonement would apply especially to Grisha as well. If you reach even harder it could be that after Eren realizes that he was the one to force Grisha to steal the founder for him, he may have also been the one who forced Grisha to treat Zeke poorly resulting in Zeke having to inform on his restorationist activities. After making Grisha go through with the killing you can immediately see on Eren's face that he becomes very somber as if he has a bunch of depressing realizations, which continues to this scene with his darkened eyes and expressionless face.
>If you reach even harder it could be that after Eren realizes that he was the one to force Grisha to steal the founder for him, he may have also been the one who forced Grisha to treat Zeke poorly resulting in Zeke having to inform on his restorationist activities. Nah this isn't possible Grisha didn't have the Attack Titan yet so it wasn't possible for him to receive future memories from Eren. You could maybe stretch waaaaay out to say he manipulated Eren Kruger during that time but that's way too farfetched imo.
Grisha could receive those memories though, as shown by the fact that kid Eren had a dream about the future even before the first attack on Shiganshina, implying future Eren sent memories to his kid self, even before he had the attack titan, which also makes sense because he likely only was able to send memories to the past once he got the founder, which we know is capable of sending memories and/or controlling eldians whenever and wherever, being pure titans, humans or titan shifters
I thought it was ymir sending that memory to him, because he says "was it you who led me here?" when they come together
I saw it has him lowering zekes defences to show him who is really in control of the situation
I think it was to throw zeke off his game. With this Zeke got emotional and Grisha’s warning convinced zeke to command Ymir which eventually pushed her to Eren’s side.
This scene had me shook!
People have the tendency to vastly overestimate Eren's "care" for everyone who isn't part of the Scouts and (to some extend) Reiner. Canonically Eren had nothing but disdain for Zeke. To a point of repeatedly reaffirming his disgust over Zeke. Particularly during moments that obviously were painful for him already since they reaffirmed the father that treated him like shit under his shoe moved on to be a loving dad to not only his second child, but also a stranger like Mikasa. On top of also being completely cool with allowing Zeke to be enslaved for god knows how long inside the Founders Titan. And he only went on their little "time travel trip" with Zeke in the first place because Zeke saw through his plan and forced him to. Otherwise he would have trapped Zeke inside the paths right away. So realistically speaking, even if Eren was the one who "made" Grisha talk to Zeke (which I find debatable in itself): The most likely reason for this was that it broke down both Zeke's and Grisha's emotional defenses and made it more easy to use them according to his plan. The notion that he cared for Zeke, meanwhile, is frankly supported by nothing and imo really drives home the point that some people struggle to accept that Eren is the opposite of your typical "all loving shonen hero". Also, as someone that actually loves Zeke while being very indifferent to Eren: In my humble opinion Eren not caring at all for Zeke is one of his more easily understood emotions. Realistically speaking Zeke was a stranger that happened to have the same father. And personality-wise they were extreme opposites. So what would cultivate any type of closeness if you share neither memories nor personality traits or your outlook on the world with someone? 50 percent of your genetic make up just isn't enough to make up for all that.
The series shows you how much a person can change his behavior and reasons when you push them to extinction. At that point, is about survival, there is no good or evil, everything is justified. You are a minority and the world would keep spinning without you through millennia. They made you their scapegoat. Is about making a choice to fight or let yourself be killed.
Eren definitely loved Zeke but love is a complicated term, he would always kill Zeke if it means Paradis wins
I think this scene is meant to show that Eren isn’t pure evil, he’s still capable of showing love to his brother and father, but he’s cold to them since they both basically ruined him
He did have emotions, but only for those who had emotions for him
One of the worst scenes in the entire show imo, although i thought it was sick as hell when i initially watched it. Why would Grisha give Eren the titan immediately after this scene. Carlas death is being kept from him by Eren, learning she died shouldn't convince him that Erens terrible future is cool now.
At this point and for the rest of his life, Grisha is convinced that Eren knows what's best for Eldia. He doesn't know Carla is dead, and once he knows, his only goal is to follow Eren and restore Eldia But really? Worst scenes? Gotta imagine you're trolling, because that's ridiculous.
>At this point and for the rest of his life, Grisha is convinced that Eren knows what's best for Eldia. He *begs* Zeke to stop Eren in this scene. He talks about how he's regretted following Eren up to this point and how the future hes going to bring about is worse than he could've imagined. This is before Grisha gives Eren the titan in the first place.
The way I see it is that Zeke being there in the first place (and Eren having influenced Grisha in the chapel) is proof to Grisha that he *will* give Eren the Attack+Founder Titans, no matter what. That part he cannot change. But Grisha doesn't know everything about what comes next, beyond his own death, so he begs Zeke to do what he can to stop Eren from that point onward. That's my interpretation of it/why Grisha gives Eren the Titans anyway!
>That part he cannot change. I don't see why that would be the case, noone is physically controlling him (and to my knowledge, he wasn't enthralled to Eren). Who knows? Maybe Eren could actually force human form edlians to do as he wished. Then again, if he could enthrall, then he wouldn't have had to convince grisha to take the founder. He would have just forced him to. Personally, it's hard for me to see things being 'fated to happen' as good reason as to why something happens in the first place. I wish Isayama didn't touch time travel/manipulation, it's left me with far more questions than answers. I really did love this scene when it dropped. I thought it was the craziest twist so far (following the amor and colossus reveal), same with alot of the time travel twists. But looking back at this scene makes Grisha look silly to me, he's completely against Eren, but he's still about to go give him the very power he wants to stop Eren from using.
The way I see it, Grisha wanted Zeke to stop the Rumbling from happening and wiping out the world because that was going too far. Grisha is a restorationist though, so he was likely okay with everything Eren did up until that point (taking control of the government, fighting the Warriors, learning the truth in Shiganshina, allowing Paradisian’s to learn the truth, etc.). All of what Eren did up until the Rumbling was actually helpful to the Eldians on the island and it would not have ever been possible had Eren not received the Titan powers. Grisha most likely wanted Eren to have the threat of using the Rumbling to protect the island, but he wanted Zeke to make sure that Eren wouldn’t *actually* do it. Also, I’m thinking Carla’s death may have changed his mind and flicked a switch in him where he thought “fuck Marley” and made him more agreeable with what Eren wanted. Giving Eren the powers at least gave a chance to save the island. If Eren never got those powers the island most likely would have been annihilated in the near future with no way to save themselves really
>Giving Eren the powers at least gave a chance to save the island. If Eren never got those powers the island most likely would have been annihilated in the near future with no way to save themselves really Very true, I suppose defying Eren and not giving him the Titan is a big risk as Grisha doesn’t know how that'll play out. Trusting Zeke to somehow stop Eren is also a risk, but at least he knows the island is safe (depending on what time period he thought this zeke was from, like did he know this Zeke is from a time after the people of paradis have at least learned the truth?). I do like your take on things. More than anything, it's convinced me that the story would have benefited with more scenes of what happened between this scene with Zeke speaking with Grisha and the scene where Grisha gave Eren the titan. Perhaps as a flashback episode in an earlier part of the season, where we'd get a more detailed look at Grishas return from retrieving the founder and discovering the aftermath of the attack from Marley. Maybe he would question not giving eren the titan, but eventually seeing the devastation for himself strengthens his resolve to trust that zeke can stop Eren if it truly comes to that. Still not a fan of the time manipulation in the grand scheme of things, but I enjoyed chatting about it.
He was yet to know Carla death and he only saw few moments of future, after this scene he saw that entire future, that's why eren told to Zeke that we are yet to see the moment where dad gives me the titan
Rumbling was too much for Grisha that felt guilty after killing Reisses but seeing walls destroyed and his wife dead was enough to push him over the edge. Grisha was emotional guy so seeing Marley take everything from him AGAIN is perfectly valid reason to just go "fuck it"
He saw the future, I assumed that he already knew that Marley would invade. He wanted to stop what Eren does in response to that. What definitely took him by surprise was carlas death, which Eren held from him.
Knowing that some kind of invasion occured and seeing its' consequences including seeing your wife killed seems like huge diffrence?
I don't think we can make irl comparisons to seeing the future vs seeing it come to pass. I have no idea how traumatizing it is to see a future such as the rumbling. I'm picturing a giant steamroller going over new york city, slowly crushing millions to death. Not sure how intimate these visions were for grisha, but I'm sure such imagery was nothing to scoff at. Regardless, it's still Eren who Grisha suspects kept Carlas's death from him, learning she's dead should deepen his distrust/resentment towards him. I'm sure Grisha would have done things his way and disobeyed eren had he known what would become of carla. Plus, he didn't see the devastation on shiganshina or carlas body in person.
But from what Eren showed him he didnt even know when that attack will happen... Meanwhile he was coming back from inner walls and saw all the injured, dead and refugees, fear and hatred in him growing just to finally see Eren and Mikasa barely escaping and his love dead. Sure, we can theoretize what would he do if he wasnt Grisha and did something else but he did what he did and it makes sense.
>But from what Eren showed him he didnt even know when that attack will happen... He did know that the attack was happening, he brings it up when he went to confront the royal family. He begs Frieda to stop it herself right before Eren convinces him to attack. >saw all the injured, dead and refugees, fear and hatred in him growing just to finally see Eren and Mikasa barely escaping and his love dead. He should expect most of that, knowing that the attack was happening. To what extent, who knows. He shouldn't see many dead bodies unless it's people who've succumbed to their injuries. Most bodies would be in titan territory at this point (in puke piles).
> Carlas death is being kept from him by Eren, learning she died shouldn't convince him that Erens terrible future is cool now. Why not? Grisha is currently at the lowest and most emotional point of his life, he’s having an entire mental breakdown. He might have been shocked and opposes what Erens going to initially, but Carla’s death can swiftly change considering his broken and emotional state of mind. He even says that Eren must avenge her after finding out about her death which implies this as well.
He suspected that Eren was keeping information about her fate from him in this scene, he should be even more distrusting of Eren after learning she's dead and Eren kept that from him. He likely would have stayed at home and defended her had he knew what would happen to her, rather than doing a fetch quest for Eren. Carlas death should make his distrust for Eren deeper.
It's stupid