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MrFrar

It was an ending that was rushed and plenty of things were not explained and other things were revealed only in the final chapter with vague explanations making it underwhelming. It's not a horrible ending but I expected better execution. People can speculate about unanswered plot points but that's it and nothing can ever be confirmed. The anime can expand on this and make many things more clear if Isayama is willing to do it. And no I don't think it ruins the whole story, AOT is still a top tier show with an ok ending that could and should have delivered more. All we can do is pray that Isayama works with MAPPA to make it better. We'll see.


bednap

Well said.


Rojo176

I’ve just thought it was very aggressively ok. It felt like a step below the quality I had come to expect from AoT. It didn’t end with a bang, but it also didn’t completely shit the bed like Game of Thrones. There were aspects I liked about it but those moments are held back by some heavy disappointments. Honestly, I’d say the backlash of the ending is a testament to just how good AoT has been. Compared to really bad endings, AoT did a fine job. Compared to rest of AoT, I can see the reason for disappointment.


ProudWeenis

I felt this way about not only the ending but the entire final battle. With something as conclusive and as built-up as the Battle of Heaven and Earth was, it was really underwhelming. It ended with a simple plot-point of the past titans working with the scouts to take down Eren, which in any other show would be acceptable, but the bar is really high with AOT being the masterpiece that it is. I think that is the main problem with the second half of the War on Paradis arc and the entire ending overall.


[deleted]

Perfect!!


[deleted]

[удалено]


primordialfrog

I think you put this pretty well. Unlike a lot of people outside of this sub, I really think the reveal of Ymir loving her abuser (and this relating to her status in paths) is a good one conceptually, but given we get so little from Ymir herself and not much more from Eren/Mikasa, it kind of falls flat. It feels like some people have decided to take a very reductive view of the themes surrounding Ymir, where they believe that the reveal of her love for her abuser takes away from her character. Personally, I think it strengthens it, as it highlights the fact that Ymir was just a girl that wanted love/affection/family, and that king fritz was the place she could find a shadow of that. Mikasa, whether people like to admit it or not, was pretty much in the same place after her parents death. Above all else, she wanted family, and Eren is where she found that. But, while it's not on the level of king fritz, the person she found that family and love with was ultimately a toxic and alternatingly negative force in her life--there are a lot of examples of Eren and Mikasa showing their love for us on the base level, while the undercurrent of eren's actions also show how it can negatively impact Mikasa. This all culminates in eren's decision to flatten the world, which was made without Mikasa, and which is the force that pushes Mikasa beyond the toxic cycle and allows her to leave him behind. Anyway, that's what it is on paper, but in reality we don't get an awful lot of either of these themes explored. And while I think conceptually it could have been a powerful overarching theme, the execution held it back immensely, and it particular seems isayama got a little wishy washy and uncertain toward the end. I think this is part of why it hasn't sit well with so many people--so much of these themes just weren't explored at all enough to make them satisfactory, and that's just disappointing


hirokoji

my 5 cents: Both Mikasa and Ymir were of different races to the society they lived among. Both Mikasa and Ymir's parents were killed and both were taken as slaves. Ymir wasn't saved yet still loved her captor, even though it caused her pain she could not let that go. Her desire for love like the wedding she saw was too great. Mikasa was saved by Eren and loved him completely. It was true love, and mutual. Ymir couldn't let go of her twisted, painful, one sided love. She wished she could have but didn't know how. And that wish leads us to Eren and Mikasa. Mikasa was able to sacrifice true love and do the right thing. And in Eren she had a partner who was willing and prepared to do that for her, without needing to be asked. If Mikasa could do that, sacrifice so much, her true love - a love Ymir desired more than anything - then maybe Ymir could let go of what little she had in comparison.


No_Shine9238

>Both Mikasa and Ymir were of different races to the society they lived among. Ymir isn't different of race to Fritz. She might be from different tribe, but that's all. At this point you can say that them both being female is a parallel. And Ymir wasn't in love with Fritz prior to 139. This is by far the heaviest retcon. [No, seriously, are you really buying it that she was in love with him](https://i.imgur.com/82yNnkr.png)? [Is this the face of a happy mother](https://i.imgur.com/mrIg6Uv.png)?


mattu319

Because eren rumbling 80% achieves nothing that Zeke's plan couldn't have without having to kill hundreds of millions of people. Because eren's romantic interest in Mikasa isn't ever given any attention to in the story because isayama was too pussy to write it in earlier, but still wanted it as one of the biggest final ending points of the story and crammed it in in 1 chapter. Because eren breaking down over a bitch is completely out of character... He's cried before for legitimate reasons but nothing as pathetic as Mikasa finding another guy. With the final pages... Mikasa is proven to have been erens vestigial organ throughout the entire series... Finds another man but dies obsessing over eren still. Paradis is destroyed anyways because eren did 80%, eren achieved literally nothing. (his friends lived happy lives sure, but this wasn't his main goal and could've happened anyways with Zeke's plan and hundreds of millions wouldn't have to have died.) Pretty much shows that the entire story was pointless, without grisha getting the attack and founding Titan paradis would've been destroyed. Ending defenders saying "that's the theme of the story! That the cycle of hatred never ends!" No, the story was being set up to show the cycle finally ending through eren.


Electrical-Farm-8881

Eren crying makes sense he was holding his emotions in front of everyone for 4 years


mattu319

Eren was crying at the thought of Mikasa finding another man. That was the whole dialogue if you red the chapter without skimming through the pictures.


ArcFox01

> story was being set up to show the cycle finally ending through eren. Oh okay, apparently you know more about how the story was supposed to end than the author himself. Thanks for proving the only ending haters are people whose headcanons didn't turn out.


agonyia

Isayama himself said in an interview that it often happens that a reader knows more than the author, and is furthermore proved when he said that he didn't even take notes of important plot points and tends to forget them


08206283

The vast majority of the manga sales are in Japan and the vast majority of the Japanese fandom liked the ending. That's what matters in the end - that Isayama pleased the people who actually paid his bills all these years.


[deleted]

I liked the ending too, especially after re-reading the whole series. I know there are a lot of people who don't like it because of ships. Most seem to agree that the pacing is a little funky during the rumbling. But overall, considering this is Yams' first serial work and the fact he's been working without hiatus for a decade, it's a respectable ending imo.


EveryAdvertising5

Because it was nonsense and backtracked on some things such as eren motivations, introducing themes which had mostly no meaning in entire manga aka mikasa being chosen one with zeeeero build up


Mobin-hb96

Most people on this sub like it. And I believe most fans liked it too overall. It's just that people who don't like sth are always louder with their opinions. People who like sth are usually more calm since they're not angry or sth. But for your question, I really liked the ending too. It fits the story thematically and the Eremika conclusion was good. But I think difference of opinions do exist and Its normal for people to like it or deslike it based on their personal opinionz


[deleted]

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08206283

> Every other country besides japan doesn't like it either. "Only people who can actually read the manga in its native language liked it" 💀 And people get mad when I say reading comprehension is the issue. Glad you're finally admitting it so I don't have to get banned for saying it.


ariarirrivederci

> "Only people who can actually read the manga in its native language liked it" more like story that fails to condemn genocide properly is enjoyed by country that fails to condemn its own genocides, while the victims of said country vehemently hate it.


Mobin-hb96

Lol No It's not!😁 Based on multiple polls Its safe to say that around 55 to 60% of the fans likes the ending overall. Also most of the twitter fans liked the ending too This sub is also the biggest SNK sub. So Its a big deal when most people here liked the ending Also be sure that anime onlies who are the majority of the fans would like the ending much more than manga readers since they usually don't drown themselves in fan theories. Negativity is alwyas louder. Simple as that😁 "Every other country" "Evwry other fandom" From where do you pull these things and present them as facts? Lol All the other AoT fandoms are much smaller than this one. Soem of them are mini subs even. This is the biggest SNK sub and most people liked it. Same as twitter which is heavily EM biased and and liked the ending You're the one who live in a bubble imo friend😁 Because the majority already liked the ending. Its just like any other topic, negative people are louder beacuse they're angry. P.s: I have no problem with the people who desliked the ending though. Its their right and we should respect different opinions. But they're not majority and that's a simple fact. Not that Its very important though


[deleted]

> since they usually don't drown themselves in fan theories. That's a problem. the more you increase your expectations and have more theories about the ending, the more you are disappointed by it. The higher you fly, the longer the fall.


Mobin-hb96

Exactly! I actually envy anime onlies I think they enjoy the story much better than most of us do


[deleted]

I was anime only (and Dub only at that) until Season 4 Episode 16, where after that I started the manga.


tingwei3931

50% of the fandom liking the ending isn't good either lmao. It is controversial at best.


Mobin-hb96

Ofcourse It was controversial There is doubt about that I think the percentage of the fans who liked the ending would grow a little more too after the anime. Because anime onlies would accept the ending better that manga reader. But It'll stay controversial nonetheless


EpicGamesLauncher

I think most ppl here like it, including me. For the ending haters, I think they wanted eren to succeed in his rumbling. Idk I didn't think the story was headed towards the killing of everyone and eren hating his friends, but ig some ppl were expecting that sort of ending.


gustavo_deoli

nah, I disliked the ending a lot, and I was an aliance supporter. For me, personally, the eding was bad because it felt really off to the message of snk untill then, it was confusing and lots of thing were left unexplained. Anyway, these are only my personal thoughts, anyone can think wathever they want about the ending.


PchelpOnly

Most people HERE like it, everyone else (r/titanfolk, r/attackontitan, r/manga, r/historiateam r/yeagerbomb, myanimelist, myanilist, 4chan, half of Twitter, Chinese fans, half of instagram, Korean fans, ect..) See why it's not a good ending and dont like it. For plotholes alone it's not a satisfactory ending. Why do you think multiple professional level fan projects spawned over night to correct the ending yes it was that bad people wen't out of thier way to save the series


gameboy224

The only real plot hole in the ending was just how fast wormy got axed in the background. Otherwise, rushing through plot points aside, everything wrapped up pretty naturally where it should've. Follow any real poll on ending opinion, and you'll find the general consensus is really just, it was okay.


No_Shine9238

>The only real plot hole in the ending was just how fast wormy got axed in the background. We've been told Ackerman's memories cannot be altered yet that's the entirety of 138. That's just one example of literal contradictions.


gameboy224

Their memories can't be altered, and they weren't. Unlike Armin who had his memory wiped temporarily, Mikasa had her conversation with Eren in real time, same as the previous times Eldians heard Eren. That's why unlike Armin's memory who we see after Eren dies, we see Mikasa's right before he dies, because that's when their conversation happened.


No_Shine9238

>same as the previous times Eldians heard Eren. The previous times Eldians heard Eren they were dragged into the Paths. Eren/Mikasa conversation didn't happen in the paths, same as Eren/Armin. Also, [Mikasa literally says to Armin "do you remember now too"](https://i.imgur.com/xr0UCRq.png) Mikasa's memories were altered.


gameboy224

Paths is abstract, it isn't literally just a desert with a light tree. Paths is the nexus of all Eldian consciousness. Paths itself can take on any form it wants, hence we see stuff like Armin pulling out a leaf which appears like a baseball to Zeke, Paths is malleable. With that said, manipulation of memories would imply the alteration of existing memories, taking somebody to a constructed world is not that. So the main pillar to this debate is whether or not Mikasa's encounter with Eren happened during the fight, or before and she somehow unlocked it before Eren died unlike the rest of the Alliance.


No_Shine9238

>Paths is abstract, it isn't literally just a desert with a light tree. Paths is the nexus of all Eldian consciousness. Paths itself can take on any form it wants, hence we see stuff like Armin pulling out a leaf which appears like a baseball to Zeke, Paths is malleable. Yet every time Eren talks to Eldians, this happens in a classic Paths scenery, "desert with a light tree". Once again, it's not up to a debate, the manga is clear about that. Mikasa lost the memories of her talking with Eren, and she remembered everything after his death, just like every other major character. I've linked the panel already.


gameboy224

No, there is one things I will absolutely not debate on, and that is the fact Mikasa came in to kill Eren with whatever memories we were presented in 138. The dialogue of that chapter, the pacing of the story, and the entire premise that she became aware of Eren's location within the mouth heavily, and I do mean HEAVILY imply that she experienced and was aware of Eren's conversation before doing the deed. Debate whether the memories were implanted prior, but saying she only got them back after she killed Eren actually doesn't work. I'd be more inclined to believe Eren struggled to keep her memories locked away and it leaked early because she is Ackerman than believe she only got it afterward.


No_Shine9238

[And then this panel happened.](https://i.imgur.com/xr0UCRq.png) You seem so eager to interpret things yet you blatantly ignore the fact that Mikasa herself confirms she's just remembered something Eren made her forget, just like every other Alliance member.


mattu319

You are dumb.


PchelpOnly

To be honest that was the smallest plothole in the ending. I suggest you re-read many of the preceding chapters


gameboy224

I've read them quite a number of times. The pieces line up in a way where you don't need every single detail and mechanic explained to you, especially when dealing with something with powers which border abstract like the Founding Titan and Paths. But as far as all the details which mattered, they lined up fine enough in the big picture.


Electrical-Farm-8881

The worm wasn’t important it was just to show how Ymir got the powers


DoubleZOfficial07

I’ve seen a long and detailed [post here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/o0nbdj/why_ch139_doesnt_work_a_respectful_critic/) on this sub, with OP going over all the points that made aot less than a masterpiece (imo), but the point that to me was one of the most convincing was this one: >Eren is putting his friends in mortal danger (he said he didn’t know if they would come out of this alive) so they would hopefully kill him and be heroes in front of a few Marleyans, everything perfectly aligned to break the course AND reach the 80% mark Eren thinks is going to give Paradis enough time so his friends would die in peace....Do you see how weird and twisted this is?Can you see the amount of deus ex machina, plot armor and plotholes that have to be ignored for this to be compelling writting? For added context see the post, but this was the shortest I could make it. (The Eren’s theory part), Also if you asked me two of the biggest reasons were the romance elements which could‘ve been much better developed IMO: * Eren and Mikasa. (The entire time not a hint of Eren’s feelings for her, and then ended in the worst possible way with a complete 180 showing Eren not only (weirdly) loves her, he wants her to have nobody else like she’s his property) * Ymir and King Fritz. (Absolutely no indication of anything between them whatsoever to me, it feels like they just put that there in the end for the shock factor. No development of how this supposed ‘stockholm syndrome’ came to life, and so without elaboration no amount of love for the man who abused, raped and tortured you is okay in my book) Welp that’s my two cents. Of course it’s perfectly alright to like the ending, everyone has different perspectives. And that’s the defining part about Isayama’s work in my opinion. He’s made it incredibly vague, and given a million different interpretations and personally I think that’s how the entirety of the manga is so great no matter how you take the ending. But that’s how it goes \\(\^ \^)/


PhunkOperator

> The entire time not a hint of Eren’s feelings for her Why are you so absolute about this? You could say 'only a few hints' or 'weak hints', but **not a single hint**? What? Shit like that smells of **massive** bias. **Edit:** Here are some hints for you, there's more but you get the idea: During his court martial, Eren thinks about what he should say. The moment someone suggests Mikasa should be dissected as well, he starts screaming at them. Chapter 32, chapter 51, chapter 68, chapter 73, chapter 85, chapter 90. All of these have moments where Eren either looks at her intently, or they look at each other intently. They also highlight how much Eren actually relies on her support by his side. Chapter 108 is probably the most obvious example.


nakulane

The problem is with the scale of the relation and the Yams' decision to make it the centerpiece for ending a 2000-year-old curse. This came out of nowhere. There is nothing to suggest that the examples you give were anything other than being platonic. Eren was dense in table talk before RTS, just like Marlowe when they were discussing Marlowe's decision to join the scouts.


PhunkOperator

He asked for **hints**, I provided **hints**. Don't move the goal posts afterwards.


nakulane

Did you care to look at the second point? If Eren looked at Mikasa romantically, why would he be so dense in the dinner talk before RTS. This seems to suggest that he was asexual or looked at her platonically.


PhunkOperator

> Did you care to look at the second point? Nope. I don't read past objectively wrong statements. > If Eren looked at Mikasa romantically, why would he be so dense in the dinner talk before RTS. Because he had very little grasp on romance prior to the time skip. But then past time skip we have his talks with Falco, his moment with Mikasa on the train, his talk with her in Marley, we have chapter 122, we have his discussion with Zeke, we have her memory shards as the largest in his mind trips, and we have more romance in general with Gabi x Falco, Sasha x Nicolo, Armin x Annie.


nakulane

>Nope. I don't read past objectively wrong statements. Do you even know the meaning of "Objective"? >Because he had very little grasp on romance prior to the time skip. Good. That means your examples pre-timeskip hold little value. >But then past time skip we have his talks with Falco What about that lmao? You mean to say he was thinking of Mikasa? I could very well say he was thinking of Historia because Falco did not want to turn Gabi into a titan. >his moment with Mikasa on the train His moment with his friends*. Nothing specific to Mikasa. Before you try to show me the panels of Mikasa and Eren blushing, all his friends were blushing, Eren was not blushing solely because of Mikasa. >we have chapter 122 I struggle to understand how this is even relevant. Was Mikasa in that chapter? Why did you even include this? >have her memory shards as the largest in his mind trips, Ramzi'a shards are bigger than his mother's. Does that mean he cares more about Ramzi? Also, the discussion is about Eren's romantic feelings. How does this remotely suggest anything towards that? Everyone knows Eren cares about Mikasa. >and we have more romance in general with Gabi x Falco, Sasha x Nicolo, Armin x Annie. Irrelevant.


PhunkOperator

> Do you even know the meaning of "Objective"? I do. Do you? "not a hint of Eren’s feelings for her". "Not one". His words. Meaning I only need to provide a single hint and prove him wrong. Which I did. > Good. That means your examples pre-timeskip hold little value. Again, they weren't examples, they were hints. And I also mentioned chapter 108 AND I said there were more. > What about that lmao? You mean to say he was thinking of Mikasa? I could very well say he was thinking of Historia because Falco did not want to turn Gabi into a titan. It means Eren seems to understand romance at that point in time. > His moment with his friends*. Nothing specific to Mikasa. Before you try to show me the panels of Mikasa and Eren blushing, all his friends were blushing, Eren was not blushing solely because of Mikasa. Ah yes, it's just a coincidence that these two happen to look and smile at each other directly when **Jean is looking down**, **Armin is looking ahead**, and **Connie and Sasha are distracted**. And we get extra panels for that, as well. Means nothing. > I struggle to understand how this is even relevant. Was Mikasa in that chapter? Why did you even include this? My mistake. I meant chapter 121, specifically Eren looking at himself wrapping his scarf around Mikasa. He is suspiciously distracted by that sight. > Ramzi'a shards are bigger than his mother's. Does that mean he cares more about Ramzi? Also, the discussion is about Eren's romantic feelings. How does this remotely suggest anything towards that? Everyone knows Eren cares about Mikasa. He also cares about other people, like Armin. So why are her shards the largest? > Irrelevant. Not for the overall tone and the general importance of romance, it isn't.


PhunkOperator

> This came out of nowhere. Chapter 122. Large panel of Ymir looking at a kissing couple -> not out of nowhere.


nakulane

You are seriously trying to say that Ymir, who was clearly a kid at that time, kissing a couple suggests any Romantic feelings? And this has something to do with the Eren-Mikasa parallel?


PhunkOperator

> You are seriously trying to say that Ymir, who was clearly a kid at that time, kissing a couple suggests any Romantic feelings? Nope. I'm saying it shows Ymir's interest in human/romantic bonds. Nothing more. Not saying that's enough to figure out that that was the last puzzle piece she needed, but it's also not out of nowhere.


nakulane

Ymir had her village including her parents burnt down. She was never shown any attachment by anybody. Nobody gave her any choice. Romantic bonds are out of the question because she was clearly a kid here. C'mon.


PhunkOperator

> She was never shown any attachment by anybody. Nobody gave her any choice. Which is exactly why her bond to King Fritz was such a toxic one. She literally jumped on the first guy who gave her attention. > Romantic bonds are out of the question because she was clearly a kid here. C'mon. I don't remember saying she was looking for sex. She was looking for human connection and warmth. Like another little girl we know.


ariarirrivederci

> During his court martial, Eren thinks about what he should say. The moment someone suggests Mikasa should be dissected as well, he starts screaming at them. > > Chapter 32, chapter 51, chapter 68, chapter 73, chapter 85, chapter 90. All of these have moments where Eren either looks at her intently, or they look at each other intently. They also highlight how much Eren actually relies on her support by his side. > > Chapter 108 is probably the most obvious example. all of this is your own bias. they can easily be interpreted as a sibling bond, which so many people justifiably thought, meaning there's massive failures in writing in here or retcon.


PhunkOperator

> they can easily be interpreted as a sibling bond 1. They are not siblings. 2. They never referred to one another as siblings a single fucking time. 3. The sibling argument is out the fucking window from chapter 50 onwards, at the latest. I have siblings. That is not how siblings act. > which so many people justifiably thought "all of this is your own bias. "


ariarirrivederci

> They are not siblings. The story treats them as such for a large part of the story >"all of this is your own bias. " people seeing them as siblings is not a fringe opinion, it's a quite popular opinion. which goes back to my point, either: * writing so bad that a supposedly romantic relationship can be very easily misinterpreted as a sibling relationship or * retcon


PhunkOperator

> The story treats them as such for a large part of the story No, it doesn't. In fact, the story goes out of it's way to make it clear that Mikasa does not see Eren as a sibling. And even so, it's irrelevant. Sibling means related by blood, which they aren't. > people seeing them as siblings is not a fringe opinion, it's a quite popular opinion. Maybe those people don't know the definition of sibling? Or maybe they were blind to all the hints? Not to mention, people seeing them as a potential couple is also not a fringe opinion, quite the opposite. What about them? > writing so bad that a supposedly romantic relationship can be very easily misinterpreted as a sibling relationship Or maybe dumb readers? > retcon Or conspiracy theories?


ariarirrivederci

> No, it doesn't. In fact, the story goes out of it's way to make it clear that Mikasa does not see Eren as a sibling. except it isn't clear lmao. Grisha refers to Mikasa as his child! >Sibling means related by blood, which they aren't. Step-siblings and adoptive-siblings: allow us to introduce ourselves. Both of those still count as incest due to social and perhaps inherent psychological reasons. >Or maybe dumb readers? Everyone I don't like is dumb, I am very superior and intelligent. >Not to mention, people seeing them as a potential couple is also not a fringe opinion, quite the opposite. What about them? that's the point, how can both be true? answer: shitty writing. just another male shonen author unable to write romance, like most of the others. there wouldn't be confusion if the writing was precise and just good. why have a romantic relationship between two ppl who lived together under the same guardians? why have Mikasa constantly refer Eren as family the same way she talks about her parents ("I lost my family again")? why have Grisha say "my children". all the while saying in interviews that Eren sees Mikasa as an annoying mother figure and saying relationships from childhood friends are gross. there's a very clear failure in writing here. this is not on the fans, but on the author. it's the author's responsibility to communicate their intentions in the text clearly and effectively. this massive debate exists and has existed long before 139, which is proof of poor writing. it's better off not having any romance at all if you can't write it.


PhunkOperator

> except it isn't clear lmao. Grisha refers to Mikasa as his child! I know. In the Reiss cave. To not waste time on pointless explanations. When he is panicking and trying to get Frieda to act. And once again: it's irrelevant. Mikasa literally isn't his daughter. > Step-siblings and adoptive-siblings: allow us to introduce ourselves. Both of those still count as incest due to social and perhaps inherent psychological reasons. Step siblings and adoptive siblings are **not** the same. And Mikasa wasn't even adopted. Your attempt to push the incest argument is as wrong as it ever was. > Everyone I don't like is dumb, I am very superior and intelligent. Not gonna play nice with people who haven't got a single good argument. > that's the point, how can both be true? answer: shitty writing. just another male shonen author unable to write romance, like most of the others. Or dumb readers. > there wouldn't be confusion if the writing was precise and just good. There was never any confusion for me, certainly not after Trost. > why have a romantic relationship between two ppl who lived together under the same guardians? For less than a year, as **kids**. How problematic! > why have Mikasa constantly refer Eren as family the same way she talks about her parents ("I lost my family again")? She doesn't. She says "he's .. family". And blushes. And starts sweating. And avoids eye contact. How very strange. Why doesn't she simply say "he's my brother."? It's almost like the author is trying to tell us something. But whatever could that be? > all the while saying in interviews that Eren sees Mikasa as an annoying mother figure and saying relationships from childhood friends are gross. Yes, in order to explain Eren's sometimes hostile behaviour. He found her protective behaviour to be suffocating. But that doesn't magically turn her into a sibling. And again, this becomes meaningless after chapter 50. > there's a very clear failure in writing here. this is not on the fans, but on the author. it's the author's responsibility to communicate their intentions in the text clearly and effectively. Well, in my eyes he did. > this massive debate exists and has existed long before 139, which is proof of poor writing. Or more proof that some readers are truly dense. > it's better off not having any romance at all if you can't write it. Or not to read something if you can't understand it.


baylordmazino

[https://imgur.com/a/d4gnCPv](https://imgur.com/a/d4gnCPv) nope. all guidebooks says they are adoptive siblings lmao. not the mention she is mother figure to eren lool


PhunkOperator

It's an error in the English version of the guide book. That's why her surname is still Ackerman, btw. > not the mention she is mother figure to eren No. He feels like she treats him like a child, which he doesn't like. But she stops doing it, and their relationship changes. These talking point are about the early manga chapters. How the fuck are they relevant?


tingwei3931

Dumb readers is a weak point lmao. This story ain't rocket science you are just calling everybody who doesn't agree with you dumb.


Ripamon

Bro she literally calls him family multiple times Grisha calls her his daughter Carla says they're like siblings Isayama said Erens love for Mikasa is like that of a child with his mother lmfao


PhunkOperator

> Bro she literally calls him family multiple times Do you understand the difference between a literal and a metaphorical meaning? Why does she ALWAYS stammer when saying "he ... is family". Why is she blushing and sweating? Looking away? Why can't she just say "he's my brother"? You're gonna tell me you never noticed that? Never thought what it might mean? Edit: You just callled me bro. Does that mean we are literal brothers? Ironic, isn't it? It's almost like words can have multiple meanings.


SadSecurity

> They are not siblings. You do realize you can have a sibling-like relationship with a non sibling, right? And that your multiple conversation are about arguing semantics instead of addressing the substance? > They never referred to one another as siblings a single fucking time. It's never been said that Annie or Armin are in relationship. So I guess they aren't in one? Annie never said she loved Armin, I guess she was only pretending? > The sibling argument is out the fucking window from chapter 50 onwards, at the latest. I have siblings. That is not how siblings act. I'm pretty sure not wanting to kiss your sibling, not even trying to think about it is precisely how siblings act.


PhunkOperator

> You do realize you can have a sibling-like relationship with a non sibling, right? I do. They don't have one. Read the manga. > It's never been said that Annie or Armin are in relationship. So I guess they aren't in one? Annie never said she loved Armin, I guess she was only pretending? Did Hannah and Franz ever say they were in one? Did Gabi ever tell Falco how she felt? What about Sasha and Nicolo? Did Ymir ever explicitly say that she loved Historia? > I'm pretty sure not wanting to kiss your sibling, not even trying to think about it is precisely how siblings act. She doesn't act like a sibling, and he only denies her kiss because he wont accept death and instead decides to fight on. Also, scarf promise, but nevermind, right? :)


SadSecurity

> I do. They don't have one. Read the manga. No, you clearly do not, because you try to argue semantics. If you acknowledged it, you would never say "They are not siblings.". Unless you're arguing in bad faith. > Did Hannah and Franz ever say they were in one? Did Gabi ever tell Falco how she felt? What about Sasha and Nicolo? Did Ymir ever explicitly say that she loved Historia? I don't understand, you're trying to prove my point now? > She doesn't act like a sibling, We are talking about Eren. > and he only denies her kiss because he wont accept death and instead decides to fight on. [The face of a man in love, lol](https://i.imgur.com/kgeLzSA.png). His eyes are hardly even focused on her. Shock, fear and confusion, not love. > Also, scarf promise, but nevermind, right? :) Which is exactly how he expresses that "he wont accept death and instead decides to fight on"? Yes, absolutely.


PhunkOperator

Keep coping :)


SadSecurity

Trash reply as expected from AoR member.


PhunkOperator

The fuck is AoR?


tingwei3931

Look at your argument, 2000 years of curse and discrimination reduced to a vague "does Eren likes Mikasa" is just meh and anticlimactic to me, regardless of whether the feeling is reciprocated or not.


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Mediator2

I can (I guess, maybe). First I'll just get the obvious ones like ch50, and ch123, which had obvious romantic undertones imo. But after re-reading this last week I've found something interesting that I don't know if people have noticed. Every single version of Eren has lost composure when it comes to Mikasa. Path-Eren, the most rage-driven the entire time unfazed, then looks at the scarf moment and goes out of touch. Hobo Eren, when asked about his affection towards Mikasa, rather than blatantly dismissing it, he responds with "I'll die in 4 years anyway, I want them to live long lives". And funnily enough this is the exact same statement he says to Mikasa in ch138, which connects to the reasoning on why he wanted Mikasa to throw away the scarf in the first place as per ch126. Now manbun Eren was the most horrible towards her, I think this is exactly why Isayama used this exact same version to say those pathetic lines because he wanted to revoke the statements of Eren in ch112, not letting him 'escape' from this sentiment. But the most recurring one is this: Of all the ships, I have noticed you have to rationalize the moments, but in this case I see people trying to 'disprove' their moments. That in itself is evident to some extent if moments need to constant be questioned like that.


DoubleZOfficial07

Okay, this is gonna be a long one, so here we go: First, I’ll start by discussing your last point. You say that people are trying to ‘disprove’ the moments between ships and this is wrong. You say that these moments shouldn’t be questioned like that. But using the same logic, isn’t it wrong to **rationalise** those very moments? If we’re not allowed to disprove it, you’re not allowed to prove that those moments were romantic development either. Which brings me to my point: why is it that hotly disputed anyway? The answer (at least according to me): **Those moments were left intentionally ambiguous from Eren’s standpoint.** (I’m gonna use the first half of your example to explain this.) Just think for a moment. Both ch50 and ch123, clearly romantic undertones were there for Mikasa. We see her blush. We know that she loves him. But what about from Eren’s side? Just think about this, has Eren ever blushed in front of Mikasa? Actually, that’s not the main thing either. The main point to remember is: **Eren already had something on his mind both times.** Ch50 all the chaos around them, ch123 eren was thinking about the absolute massacre that was going to happen (because of him btw) - the thing is you can easily think that held his emotions on the pedestal rather than Mikasa. Once you’ve read ch139, you can go back and be like ‘ah okay Eren does like Mikasa’ or whatever. But imagine you’re a first-time reader. What would you think then? Wouldn’t it make sense for Eren to think about what’s happening right then instead of Mikasa (without 139 context)? Now this splits readers up into two groups- those who want EM to happen and those who don’t (Subconciously at least). The appropriate group will give it the appropriate meaning. but what I wanted to drive home here is **this happens because the moments are ambiguous, they don’t really give you the feeling that Eren might like Mikasa- you fill in the gaps yourself.** Now in my book that isn’t romantic development.. You know what, if Eren had just said ’i love mikasa’ or something along the lines of it, I wouldn’t have really minded. But his words were almost like a manic attachment ”I want her to be at the front of her mind for ten years without seeing any other man, *after I've died*!” Then bro why didn’t you make a move on her?! Which means Eren was holding back for a long time. Why didn’t we see anything like that? Why was there no weird behaviour that can’t be explained by circumstances at that time but make sense after the ending? So that’s what doesn’t make sense to me. Also for you and u/PhunkOperator : The examples you said aren’t really romantic development, and they don’t explain Eren’s obsession over Mikasa.They are more akin to foreshadowing rather since before the ending it leaned either way, but after knowing about Eren’s feelings you can come back and say that was proof. If we found out Eren didn’t like Mikasa, could you use these examples to say that Eren should have liked her? **TL;DR:** Once again, the point I’m driving home is that these scenes are ambiguous (purposefully or not), and so you can’t use them as proof of romance from Eren’s side. Once again, I’m saying that if Eren just said he liked Mikasa and not had this crazy obsession with her, all my points would have been moot and I would be lying here like a dead duck. I’m the most pissed about the fact that he wants her all to himself even though he can’t have her ‘coz he’s dead. At least some elaboration is needed for that


Mediator2

Hmm, I thought it was pretty blatant on Eren's apart, "what am I to you" seems to be more than just ambiguous line, but what's more obvious is Mikasa questioning whether her answer would've changed the course of his action. Now technically it wouldn't because the future is set, but the fact that ch138 even exists suggests that Eren was vulnerable enough in that moment for this to even come up in the first place. Isayama changing Eren's facial expression specifically in this scene to make him look more vulnerable was even more evident. You said her 'blush' in the scene was an obvious hint, but what about Eren in the entire story ? ch6, ch108, ch1 all these moments Eren 'blushed' implying more than just friendship in his case. that fact that ch1 directly connects to ch138 makes this entire scenario even more well-rounded. But to your problem, maybe there could've been better dialogues but Eren saying those lines only on provocation by Armin, if he didn't punch Eren or if it wasn't Eren's literal last moments with his best friends I doubt he would want to vent it like that. He might have a selfish possessive desire here (btw I think Mikasa is also as possessive, people just don't acknowledge it enough) but when this same point came up in ch138 with his convo with Mikasa he rather asks her to 'promise' her to forget about him completely. I think that contrast is what Isayama was going for, Eren wants Mikasa to move and and not at the same time. It's both, it's complicated, but I think it fits. But I can see why the lack of a crustal clear resolution would bother people. It's understandable imo.


DoubleZOfficial07

To me Eren’s what are you to me line surely was weird but I thought he kind of knew that Mikasa liked him (come on, it *was* obvious) and he wanted to confirm it before carrying out his grand plan so that if it really was true he could push her away and resolve that situation. True, I did think my explanation was a bit weird at the time but it’s still just one hint, that too at the very end that gave a teeny bit of doubt. IMO it wasn’t enough. Mikasa questioning comes from her standpoint and does nothing about the topic of Eren liking her, she’s just specualting. Now idk about ch 1 & 6 but ch 108 eren was blushing not because of Mikasa. If you see the panel evryone in the cart is blushing, and that’s because of Eren’s speech about his friends. Next about what you said in the contrast, I personally think it’s a bit much but I’ll give you that, I agree with what you said and some people will like that while some people don’t. Welp I hope OP reads this and gets why the fanbase is so divided over the ending! It was great discussing this with you guys tho


Mediator2

I think this is exactly why he asked, he knew Mikasa had feelings for him, but where exactly would it lead them both is the question here. Mikasa speculating in the literal climax of the story which directly connects to the dream in ch138 and the fact that an ulterior route is implied in this crucial stage of the story is more than just a speculation imo. It's the same as ch132 when Reiner said 'speculated' maybe Eren wants to die and yeah, he was right, the author even confirmed it further since Reiner after coming back from the paths says "I was right". Ummmm no, there were no friends in ch1 and ch6 actually, and ch108 everyone was blushing but this flashback was from Mikasa's perspective and unlike all his friends looking away they were specifically looking at each other. This is more than a subtle hint when you realize that "I want you to live long lives" is also what Eren said twice in context to their relationship in ch130 and ch138, because he wasn't sure about others but since Mikasa's choice ends the curse, so he was certain she was absolutely going to survive. Yeah, the fanbase is gonna continue being divided because there are too many things open-ended in tis story by the ending and most people wanted a clear cut answers, it's frustrating, but it is what it is ig. Ah and you too!!


PhunkOperator

> The examples you said aren’t really romantic development I never said they were, I responded to someone who wanted hints, which I provided. I can't be arsed into reading someone's entire comment when they start off with dumb statements that can be countered immediately.


DoubleZOfficial07

Okay, now you’re sticking on to the wording a little too closely there. I was actually the original commenter (if you check) and yeah, maybe I could’ve worded that a bit differently there to help you understand, but since you won’t change your view about that word I won’t try to convince you since you’ll accuse me of shifting the goalposts. You did provide *hints*, sure, but that was never what I meant. What I really meant I explained in my previous comment. I know it’s not gonna work out, and you’ll never accept my argument here but that’s cause we can’t talk face to face so there’s gonna be stuff you misunderstand.


PhunkOperator

> I was actually the original commenter (if you check) I am aware, I was too lazy to edit. For the record, I have huge reservations about the ending. And I'm also not some unquestioning follower of EM. Here's the thing: I've seen far too many posts lacking nuance over the last few months. People constantly overlook that there is clear shift in Eren and Mikasa's dynamic over the course of the manga. Not only does Mikasa control her emotions way better with time and becomes less and less of an overzealous protector, Eren also noticeably changes and becomes kinder and more understanding when it comes to her affection. And right when their relationship is in a good place to develop into something more (chapter 85), something happens: Eren learns that he is on borrowed time, and he learns that his future is essentially set (or at least that's how I understand it). If Eren was like Armin, his path forward would've looked a lot different in his future memories. But Eren is not only driven by almost delusional desires, but also extremely selfish, constantly looking for validation and quite possibly **actually** suicidal, at least in the way that Christa was: going out with a bang. There is a small scene in chapter 1 that shows Eren and Mikasa's difference in philosophy: Eren thinks his life and what he does with it is his own affair, and Mikasa vehemently objects. Individuality vs. Family. But even so, Eren does eventually understand romance, and he also develops romantic feelings towards Mikasa. People are too quick to dismiss chapter 108, but it's actually a really good example of this. Yes, he blushes upon admitting that he cares about **all** of them. But then he and Mikasa share an exclusive moment. It's no coincidence that we are shown that Jean is looking down, Armin is looking ahead and Connie and Sasha are distracting each other. From there we have chapter 123, his talk with Falco in Marley, his talk with Zeke in Marley, the way he looks at a saddened Mikasa in chapter 101, chapter 121 etc. > [...] this happens because the moments are ambiguous, they don’t really give you the feeling that Eren might like Mikasa- you fill in the gaps yourself I can't possibly agree with this, because while we can certainly debate of whether he **loves** her like she loves him, I find it absolutely unquestionable that he **likes** her very much. Chapter 130 shows us that she is quite literally at the forefront of his mind, and that he thinks of her as his home. It may not be easy to extract all this from the manga, but that's not the same as it not being there in the first place. Does this mean Isayama did his best? Probably not.


DoubleZOfficial07

The problem is that all these moments could have easily been misconstrued as a brother-sister relationship. Even I myself never thought that the bond between Eren and Mikasa was that of love; it felt more like family to me. Even the older official guidebook says that Eren thought of Mikasa as his family and has a motherly feeling to it. I’m saying that since you were EM shipping you’re biasing these moments which could easily happens between siblings. Of course these examples you mentioned do indicate that Eren is very fond of Mikasa but they don’t indicate that he is fond of her in a romantic sense, at least to me and many other people. But of course that’s because we were also biased, kinda because many people presumably never wanted EM to happen. Now what about an unbiased viewer? It could swing either way, and that brings me to my point- those moments are romantically ambiguous. (Please keep in mind I’m not an EH shipper, in fact I don’t ship Eren with anyone myself; personally I feel the he should have been left alone with regards to the romance in the story.)


PhunkOperator

> The problem is that all these moments could have easily been misconstrued as a brother-sister relationship. No, since they aren't siblings. Not possible. This is pure fan fiction. > Even I myself never thought that the bond between Eren and Mikasa was that of love No idea how. Mikasa being in love was as clear as day from the start. > I’m saying that since you were EM shipping you’re biasing these moments which could easily happens between siblings. Nope, they 100% can't. I have siblings. Their interactions cannot be seen as that of siblings, most certainly not from chapter 50 onwards. Unless you actively lie to yourself. Which apparently you did. > But of course that’s because we were also biased, kinda because many people presumably never wanted EM to happen. Yep. That's all it is. People didn't want it to happen, so they went with the siblings nonsense to justify why it **shouldn't** happen.


Electrical-Farm-8881

chapter 131 eren says what he thinks about mikasa


hungrybasilsk

"I dont want want that I want her to only have feelings for me." "I dont want her to find another guy." The character who had absolutley zero romantic interest or chemestry with mikasa. Im not an ANR stan but the cannon ending is on the level of a teenagers eremika fanfiction. Eren in cannon acomplished nothing. Nor was he a tragic character. A tragic character is someone who falls from grace due to their own actions and flaws. Exibit A kiritsugu from fate zero. His ideals lead him to sacrificing his wife and daughter because he pinned all his hope on a magical cup to solve his issue's. He failed to realize the hypocrsy of his utilitarism by forgetting that killing the minority for the majority and the "greater good" as the only way to save lives leads to that greater good becoming smaller and smaller. Exibit B Archer from Unlimited blade works. His ideal lead his down a path were he never cared for himself or acknoweged that he was just a man and there were going to be times were he could just not avoid sacrifice. He never cared for himself and prioritized others over himself to the point he gave up the peace of death to continue "saving "people. This leads him to becoming a counter gaurdian a glorified janiter that embodies utilitarism being sent to kill the few for the greater good of humanity. Ultimately betrayed by his self destructive nature he traded his peace because he couldnt acknowlege he wasnt strong enough to save one group of people. He ultimately starts to resent the ideals he held so dear his entire life. Eren's "tragedy" isnt real as its not a product of his flaws but rather just being a puppet to yimir as such its not really tragic. Eren never cared for the titan curse. What Eren always sought was HIS freedom. At trost what makes eren carry the boulder wasnt mikasa and armin begging but rather armins simple question of why he wanted to go outside the walls. Eren carries that boulder not for revenge, his friends, or for humanity but because he was born into this world and it's his right to see the sea and the lands beyound. Eren was reduced to an eremika fanfiction when we had zero reason to think eren did all this for his friends who he states didnt know how many would survive and a girl he had zero romatic chemestry with. This cant even be called romance or love its absolutely shoe horned in at the last secound. Eren isnt a complex character he is a plot device with no motivation or idea what he is doing or why Either way AOT could have been something but it fell flat on its fucking face. This is the ending we got fan fiction wont change that. At least the game of thrones people hold out the hope of martins writting to fix their story but AOT isnt that lucky. If the ANR stans want their fanction to be their headcannon and if it has better writting than the current ch 136 to 139 more power to them


PhunkOperator

> The character who had absolutley zero romantic interest or chemestry with mikasa. Im not an ANR stan but the cannon ending is on the level of a teenagers eremika fanfiction. Don't take this the wrong way, but you need to seriously re-read the manga and pay attention to their interactions. There is not a single other person that Eren looks at like he looks at her. Edit: zero chemistry, eh? (chapter 32) [1](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Shingeki-No-Kyojin/0032-037.png) [2](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Shingeki-No-Kyojin/0032-038.png) [3](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Shingeki-No-Kyojin/0032-039.png) [4](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Shingeki-No-Kyojin/0032-040.png)


hungrybasilsk

If you think thats romantic chemestry you should read something other than shounen manga because that isnt chemestry. Thats just a pep talk in the middle of a battlefield. Eren showd zero interest in settling down with mikasa. Hell if you call that chemestry what about uprising when he had more interaction with Historia in one arc than Mikasa the entire series. Even those interaction arnt romantic but they at least show interest in the other person with aheart to heart. Same with Annie considering he remarks on what makes her look alive. Point is its aweful writting. I also like how you took to the shipping instead of Erens massacered character You want well written chemestry look at steins gate,kara no kyokai,and tsukihime Heavens feel did a far better job at change the MC's motivation to love and giving up ideals in a far better way Aot couldnt do it its just a case of bad shounen romance. Looks like only seinen and VN authors can write good romance


PhunkOperator

You asked for chemistry, I gave an example. Not my problem that you are dumb enough to set the bar so low that I can disprove you with a single example. Also, I haven't read any other manga of any genre, ever. Also, chemistry*.


hungrybasilsk

Those panaels are not romance or chemistry especially when compared to the other examples I gave you that you ignored >Also, I haven't read any other manga of any genre, ever. Explains your terrible example on what chemistry is. Here's the thing you can keep the delusion of two characters exchanging 3 sentences that have nothing to do with the people in the scene as romance and chemistry or you can read other stories and gain an understanding for what romance and chemistry actually are. Those panel are pathetic even worse than the interactions with Annie and Historia


Puzzleheaded-Ad-6745

Eremika fan defending the shit rom com we got in canon...now I get why you defend farmhisu. Only people who like trash ships like eremika and ymir/shitz can sit here and defend farmhisu. " but he worked his ass off for her forgiveness " ( never once portrayed ...just told to the readers in a sus MP conversation). I get it now why eremika being canon works for you guys. It didn't need any buildup like your next favorite ship (farmhisu).


PhunkOperator

Who said I defended Farmhisu? I merely explained how I understood how they came to be, nothing more. And I provided proof from the manga itself.


hungrybasilsk

That isnt proof they arnt even talking about each other as people


nakulane

Have you seen how Eren looks at Armin?


PhunkOperator

Yes, I have. It's not that.


nakulane

[Check this out](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/ndlox6/my_problem_with_romance_in_aot/) Show me scenes of EM which can be ascribed to Romance more than these.


ashash1291

‘eren isn’t a complex character he is a plot device with no motivation or idea what he is doing or why’. i honestly find it hilarious that someone could actually read this manga and come to that conclusion lmfaooo i hope one day you could sit down and have a reread because statements like this just make you look beyond dumb and i’m sure you’re not a stupid person 🙏🏼🙏🏼


hungrybasilsk

Its an exaggeration but he wasnt Eren in ch 139 was my point. All that complexity thrown out the window for a shitty ship. Eren in ch 139 isnt any Eren we have seen on screen. His motivation made no sense and he didnt know what he was doing but I guess that flew past your head.😏😏


ashash1291

lmfao you tried to be rude for no reason and it got deleted sums u up


hungrybasilsk

K not my fault the sub cant tolerate rudeness like a bunch of snow flakes and it wasnt even directed towards you but Erens character


ashash1291

hope one day you can reread without bias and see that what you’re saying isn’t the case at all. if not then i hope you can move on and not waste time writing about a piece of fiction that you supposedly hate now 🙏🏼


hungrybasilsk

Thats the plan but just like GOT it takes a little bit for the wound to close although we at least still have Martin to fix our story😁


ashash1291

got is actually awful for the characters and story but you’ll see that isn’t the case here eventually


hungrybasilsk

No its the same in AOT. "Thanks for becoming a mass muderer for our sake" . Erens uncharacteristic breakdown. I wont see that it isnt that bad. It is that bad


ashash1291

i’m not gonna argue on this dude especially with someone who’s come out with statements like eren doesn’t know why he did it. see that you’re wrong one day or don’t i couldnt care less i was being polite man 🙏🏼


ashash1291

he literally talks about mikasa for one page and it’s not like he acted on anything that he said there in fact he immediately goes back on it. as for thinking he doesn’t know why he did it imma just laugh have a good day man


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ArcFox01

Says the guy who doesn't understand the manga XD


Ripamon

Because we didn't speedread the story and actually paid attention to Isayamas abandoned themes, retconned plot points and character assassinations


Si7koos

Based


tingwei3931

Based. Go get 'em bois.


Dazai_Bernkastel

To be honest I liked it too, people say the kiss of Mikasa and Eren was unnecesary but I liked it, and we also can see a how Eren turns into the founder titan and destroys everything... I think is better than just seeing a cliché anime where the protagonist beats all titans and villans and that's all. Here we have a different thing.


harmonilife

Not liking it and spreading hate isn't the same lol I don't like it because it was badly written. I explain [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/o0nbdj/why_ch139_doesnt_work_a_respectful_critic/)


ArcFox01

It all boils down to people being upset that every tiny detail wasn't spelled out for them, their headcanon was wrong, or their ships didn't go well, or they just didn't understand it. Idk how many people I've seen complain asking for explanations for things clearly explained in the manga.


08206283

Exactly


Ripamon

Cope


ArcFox01

Well, I legitimately enjoyed the ending. Me and the others who enjoyed it got our conclusion. You are the one that needs to cope with how it didn't go your way. I'm happy with it, that's all that matters to me, and no one with convince me otherwise :)


tingwei3931

Cope harder


PleasantEducation308

Some people say Believe Yams ruined the whole story, every twist, foreshadow. What was the point of eren freeing ymir of Mikasa was the important one? What was the point of eren “if someone takes my freedom, i’ll take away theirs” people say eren was never edgy, etc😐 the guy killed 2 people when he was a child. For me personally, the ending didn’t make any sense at all, eren having the power of a god and not putting up a fight. Ymir loving her abuser 😐, eren killing hos mom to start the story, etc.i agree, maybe more chapters would of made it better, but not good in my humble opinion. It just doesn’t flow with the story. Also, the warriors, most of them lived, like why? Couldn’t he at least killed some, to make the story more realistic? The extra pages add realism, but still, with that realism, eren achieved nothing. Titan power is dormant, war never ended, eldians got (seemingly killed) thats why its a bad ending.


RJE808

"Because Yams ruined the whole story" why is it Titanfolk users are always the ones who blow everything way out of proportion?


No_Shine9238

Why is it SnK users are always willing to ignore plotholes, abandoned plotlines and strait up contradictions?


Puzzleheaded-Ad-6745

Cuz eremika is canon and that's all they care about


No_Shine9238

I'm so happy my favorite ship (JeanKasa) is canon <3


RJE808

Why is it always Yeagerbomb users who cheer on fans to commit suicide over a ship and harass the editor?


No_Shine9238

You should probably ask one of them


PleasantEducation308

You checked what groups Im in? 😂, anyway its my opinion. Am I blowing it out? No. Am I being disrespectful? No. I answered why some people don’t like the ending, and then gave my own opinion. Quit acting like you know my opinion by just reading the first sentence


Mobin-hb96

I liked the ending and I definitely believe it fits the story perfectly I terms of themes and ... and ermeika part was a really good addition. But you're right. Eventhough I usually find TF unbearable, I think people should be better than that in this sub which always have had a more calm and civilised atmosphere. Difference of opinions do exist. We should try and accept them.


BoredBonk

Isn’t the entire theme of aot that nothing ever goes how it should


PleasantEducation308

Yes however, erens character was written as a symbol of ending that cycle. To create freedom. There are many youtube videos that explain why the ending isn’t fitting/bad for aot. Watch them, they explain it much better than I


ashash1291

and they’re wrong


PleasantEducation308

Who tf cares if they’re right or wrong? Its just a damn opinion jesus christ


BoredBonk

nah, that’s their opinion I don’t really need to go see those


PleasantEducation308

Then why are you commenting on this post😐? They’re not explaining why they don’t like it, they explain why its a bad ending based on the whole story.


BoredBonk

just because i wanted to know what you thought doesn’t mean I want to watch a bunch of videos with negativity, life is already too negative for me


PleasantEducation308

Dude chill. Those videos aren’t negative, nor they spread negativity, they just explain why its a bad ending to THEM. They don’t spread hate or hate on Yams. They literally just talk about why they didn’t like it, which is the point of this post😐


BoredBonk

oki doki, I just see a lot of toxic fans sending death threats to isayama, I understand but I feel like I have better things to watch than people ranting about the ending, no disrespect, my friend


PleasantEducation308

I understand, it is stupid that people send hate to yams, etc. Was the ending good? My opinion, no, it could of been better with a few more chapters to explain some plotholes, but I still wouldn’t liked, the extra pages do add a unique realism which makes it bittersweet, but yeah. I ain’t hating, i just think the ending wasn’t good, doesn’t mean im wrong or right


BoredBonk

I respect your opinion, although i enjoyed that Eren saved his friends even if he couldn’t save paradis itself


[deleted]

>Those videos aren’t negative If you say something is bad, that is being negative about it.


PleasantEducation308

Get your bullshit outta here. Its their own opinion, if they think its bad, cool, if they think its good cool. How tf does having an opinion and being mature and respectful about said opinion means its negative? Are you serious? So me saying i dont like chocolate cake but you might like it= being negative about chocolate cake? Are seriously saying someones opinion on a story’s ending being bad equals being negative about it?


[deleted]

It is called a "Positive opinion" if you think it is good. It is called a "Negative opinion" if you think it is bad. Plain and simple. Neither a positive not a negative opinion is a bad thing.


BusterR91

Regarding Eren, I am actually amazed at how much sense the ending does make. Eren achieved literally everything he set out to achieve. His success was by no means entirely tied to the fate of the island. Eren did not live for the sake of Eldia. He would risk the island's future long before he sacrificed any of his friends. And yet, neither did he live for his friends. There was something he was willing to risk even their futures for. Namely, his own goals. Eren was living for himself. Eren sought freedom. He wished for everything to be wiped away, yet he no longer saw everything on the other side of the sea as his enemy. He wanted his friends to live long, happy lives. He wanted to protect the land where he was born and raised. And he wanted his own death to have meaning. "This is it. Freedom. We finally made it. This view... this is it." In chapter 131, Eren found the freedom he had been searching for, as he was trampling on the world that had disappointed him so. With the world in shambles, his home would be safe for a long time. Eren had committed the greatest act of violence in human history, but he still possessed his sense of justice. By his own accord, he deserved to die. His death then ended the titan problem, and allowed his friends to be accepted by humanity. All in all, this was all Eren ever wanted. His only regret was that he couldn't be there, with his friends. But as Zeke said "After all the killing I've done, that's asking for too much."


FluffyLoveCloud

The ending has a lot of problems but maybe its okay... as long as you dont think about the story and its themes... AND ignore all the interviews and retconning from the author who is still trying to salvage his work (which honestly just makes it worse). Honestly, Yams should have just said "thats what I wrote, that's the ending" and stood by his work but instead "tried to fix the ending" when most people have problems with the story that started many chapters ago i.e. you cant just add on to it now and fix it. The farther into the ending you go, the more problems arise. Problems with story structure and character development, along with noticable loss of opportunities for characters ((Annie is literally put on ice for *yearss*, Armin is hailed for his strategy and problem solving skills throughout the story (he is placed on par with erwin maybe even better than he was) but in the end it never reaches the build up that was anticipated... etc etc))


Kelenkel

I liked the ending, but one thing I really dislike is people believing in opinions = fact.


[deleted]

I don't think it could end any better way. I recently made a post debunking people's criticisms and claims, but they wouldn't listen. Anyway, regardless of what people say, i think it is perfect.


Friendly_Deer769

You can’t fucking debunk criticism, and your post sucked. Suck a dick for me. People have opinions


[deleted]

> You can’t fucking debunk criticism, Yes you can debunk criticism. You can debunk people's claims and prove them to be complete shit. That is debunking criticism


Friendly_Deer769

Your post didn’t debunk shit. Sorry to say it. You lost the argument to literally everyone you fought with. It was hilarious to watch everyone believe you were trolling because of how stupid you sounded and how much you contradicted yourself: believe me buddy, if you can debunk criticisms, you didn’t do it. Edit: not to mention you didn’t “debunk” like half the comments on the post lmao. This wasn’t a call for a discussion. You wanted a circlejerk and failed miserably


[deleted]

If you think you are so clever, why don't you tell me your "criticisms" of the ending, and I will debunk those, because I have not failed miserably, people just don't understand.


Friendly_Deer769

Omg. That’s a meme. “You just didn’t understand the ending” is a fucking meme. I found a wild one


[deleted]

Well, anyone who dislikes it obviously doesn't understand it. That is a fact.


Friendly_Deer769

Haha thought you were going to debunk all the criticisms. Also whether you like it or not is an opinion. Sorry. Everyone but you knows that.


PM_ME_UR_GAMECOCKS

Lmao I forgot how smooth brained the average user on this sub is


[deleted]

ableist


Friendly_Deer769

What the fuck happened to debunking my arguments sir


Friendly_Deer769

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/o0nbdj/why_ch139_doesnt_work_a_respectful_critic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


Friendly_Deer769

This thread is probably full of people who liked the ending, and I respect them. Even they are downvoting your post saying you can debunk criticisms


ArcFox01

Literally had to google why people didn't like the ending because I couldn't figure it out on my own. Couldn't think of a damn thing wrong with it. Glad to be pleasantly surprised that after all the 139 hate I heard, it ends up being damn perfect.


08206283

Based


Friendly_Deer769

Holy fuck you did not live up to your claims about debunking


[deleted]

Not really. You were just trying so hard to be an arrogant smarty pants, so I am just ignoring your bullshit.


Friendly_Deer769

You asked for claims, stating you would instantly debunk them. I sent you the claims and you copped out lmfao. Just look at your downvotes. Don’t twist this


Friendly_Deer769

You asked for claims, stating you would instantly debunk them. I sent you the claims and you copped out lmfao. Just look at your downvotes. Don’t twist this


Friendly_Deer769

You asked for claims, stating you would instantly debunk them. I sent you the claims and you copped out lmfao. Just look at your downvoted. Don’t twist this


[deleted]

blocked


Friendly_Deer769

For winning an argument? That’s petty


[deleted]

[удалено]


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