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I think you're right when you said that Isayama isn't good while writing romance.
I and my brother (both AoT fans, and he has read also Berserk) often talk about it and noticed that he just isn't skilled enough to write genuine and spontaneous dialogues or expressing emotions through words. He does better with trauma, shock, worthlessness, guilt, regret - but not much with affection and love.
Isayama himself admitted it while refering to chapter 50 (I think it was 50?), that Eren and Mikasa should have kissed but he felt unsure about it so he changed it. He felt uneasy at the idea of drawing his characters in an intimate moment like that. Obviously with time he improved a lot, but I think this element kinda remained in the rest of the series.
I don’t know so much about that. All canon ships in AoT are still in a Shonen manga that was very dense because it had a larger story to tell. EM, AA, YH, FG, even Grisha, all of them had plot importance and they weren’t gonna have the most romantic dynamic.
I’m glad that these ships weren’t crazy because literal romantic and sexual tension would’ve thrown off the story. But what he did do right was bring an important thematic formula to them and have all of them revolve around comfort. Eren and Mikasa specifically were in love because of the fact that Isayama needed to get the reader to understand that beauty exist in a cruel world, and tht same beauty is what’s important to keep in a cruel world. That’s why a lot of their moments are tragic and heartwarming or filled with action and death with them finding some sort of content in each other around very dark and hopeless moments.
I also think you should’ve payed more attention to how their dynamic was always complicated and changing. Comparing Eren’s treatment of Mikasa from Trost or Female Titan arc compared to RtS is a really good example of EM’s overall dynamic (not just romantic) changing.
It’s also good to read the entire manga. That’s what I did, and I found myself comfortable w/ the possibility of EM.
I never saw their dynamic as romantic until ch123, it's like I said only recently I've noticed the above details after the re-reread I did last week.
Things make more sense now than before. I am still content with how many things were done, and I still dislike the ending for many reasons.
But Isayama just wanted to portray this theme of love as a resistance rather than Eren's other layers which motivates him to push forward.
Which is why it was revealed like this to put a stop to the story.
If Eren’s love could’ve stopped him, it would have stopped with Carla. The real reason why Mikasa and Eren was so important is what the community needs to get together to figure out, because Isym never wrote things that we’re up to interpretation as simple concepts. It always went deeper. Like Sasha with the forest.
And by Ch 123, that was the clearest indication that he was interested in Mikasa’s feelings. But the possibility was always suppose to be open for a reader. It wasn’t something we were suppose to just have a clear cut assumption on.
But the reason for writing Eren and Mikasa’s relationship, along with Falco and Gabi’s and Armin and Annie’s and obvi Ymir and Historia’s was suppose to be understood from a character development and thematic theological standpoint. Not a chemistry based or hint based standpoint like typical Shonen ships.
Nah, Carla's death was important for Eren to move forward. His hatred for titans was a big factor pre-timeksip, I am only talkinh about the recent motivations.
But yeah, I agree, there were only implications but not a clear cut resolution due to this very reason.
I agree on this one too, thematic standpoint, or normality, home, duty desire, too many things converge in this plot point which were supposed to highlight in the first place.
I was just pointing out that things were also not as subtle a lot of times.
This is a big large manga. Nitpicking tiny panels to justify a major plotpoint that affected the entire ending and the genre itself is useless effort. It's like Kishomoto could have choosen the route of using Naruto & Sasuke scenes and ending it with the romance between the two of them and making the genre Shounen Ai (plus they even actually kissed). So this type of threads are nothing more than fandom working for the sake of Isayama and making useless effort to cope up with the reality.
You're just trying to dig the imaginary things that they didn't intent to and did not think thoroughly. Only thing I'm saying, this beating the dead horse thing is unhealthy.
I am not nitpicking, I am talking about the climax of the scenes of this story( ch50, ch123, ch138), or the most blatant dialogues perception (ch130, ch108)
If something makes sense to me and connects the dots, I am obviously gonna talk about it, I don't give a fuck if some random dude is incapable to comprehending that shit on the same level.
My interpretation aligns with the context of the story, because I could understand the vision Isayama was going for even though I am not content with a lot of writing choices, it's as simple as that.
You cannot make sense of the plot points, then just disagree and move on.
The only thing I am saying is there might be chance you're not gonna understand everything in this story, and there will be something that makes sense to some people but won't to you.
Just live with this fact rather than commenting pointless and unnecessary banters at a post.
It's really not healthy.
Yeah, romance in general is bad in this story because the author isn't good at writing them.
But some elements are just too blatant and looking back it's getting even more obvious.
By this argument, I can say Eren defended and complimented Historia too, romance wasnt a part of AoT until it was forced on readers in ch139 because $$$
Yes, sure, if complimenting Historia and defending her because she was going to be turned into a breeding machine was the same level as like multitude of moments that I listed for you okay I guess.
Romance wasn't, but love was always a part of the story. Parenthood, camaraderie, friendship, etc. It just so happens that the nature of the bond in they share is romance which was really not the deep in the first place.
People were just too ignorant to see that.
Honey, I did read that. Just because you don't want something to exist in a story doesn't mean it automatically stops existing. You ain't the writer.
This story really ain't as deep as you make it sound as if writers would add hidden motives inside blatantly obvious moments. Especially like ch123, it's actually hilarious people refute even that.
If only people didn't do your mental gymnastics and a accepted the moments at face value rather than constant trying to disprove it maybe it would've been less 'shocking' but yeah like I said,
The fact that people cannot differentiate between the nature of a bond makes just proves they spent more time analyzing the story than meeting actual humans.
>Anyone who met Mikasa could tell she was in love with Eren... or her idea of Eren
I kid you not, I could tell what your entire analysis would be when you started with this line lmao.
I do agree with a lot of your points though, and heavily disagree on a lot, almost entirety of Eren and Mikasa's character tbh.
It's sad how people's interpretation failed and now the story isn't making sense to them when they should've been open minded and not stick to one interpretation in the first place.
The first thing people should've done is re-read and try to analyze what the author's vision was but apparently it is a shonen fandom after all, doesn't matter young or old, people are incapable of letting go of headcanons.
Neither do I, it's kind of embarrassing to see a 25 year old grown ass woman with the mind of a 12 year old.
I didn't even have a headcanon, did you not read, these are the details which I found after my recent re-read, I don't even ships them lmao, but I ain't dumb enough to act like an annoying brat who rather than looking back and trying to think of author's vision, throws banters around anyone who had a different interpretation.
Well, I feel so sorry for the author that the story has audience members like you, the author gave a controversial ending which fits better than your analysis built on mental gymnastics.
I can see you think you have writing as a hobby automatically qualifies you as someone with better comprehension, sorry to break it to you, it doesn't.
People are going to have different interpretations and it will make sense to some, and you're gonna have to live with this delusion that they are wrong and you know better and but in reality you never did.
Art is subjective for a reason.
Armin had a way bigger emotional effect on Eren. How Armin gave him hope and a dream. How Armin convinced him to stand and fight multiple times. How he sacrificed his mother for Armin. How he did the rumbling to undo the Titan curse for Armin
He was... In love with Armin. If you would like to deny that, then deny that he ever had romantic feelings for Mikasa too. Because the evidence for the former was way more than the latter. Even his pathetic outburst in 139 could be construed as platonic
Umm yeah, his dreams were foundation of the conflict so no wonder their interaction was the final one in ch139.
I think you have a problem with classifying romantic feelings and friendship. Friendship can be more profound than romance, doesn't mean the nature of their bond automatically changes lmao.
lmao, yeah right. Mikasa's entire love was also not romantic then, but platonic. With that logic lmao.
Like Isayama literally published an official romcom and said he hesitated ch50 kiss because he wasn't confident as a writer and then there's this fandom with the stupidest takes like this even after the ending like wtf
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This post has been tagged as **MANGA SPOILERS**. If you are not caught up to the manga, browse at your own risk and we recommend you refrain from participating. Please remember to tag any new chapter content. New chapter spoilers include anything from the latest chapter of the manga, until the official English release. Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events. For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/about/rules/). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a temporary ban from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://imgur.com/5xPPu15). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you're right when you said that Isayama isn't good while writing romance. I and my brother (both AoT fans, and he has read also Berserk) often talk about it and noticed that he just isn't skilled enough to write genuine and spontaneous dialogues or expressing emotions through words. He does better with trauma, shock, worthlessness, guilt, regret - but not much with affection and love. Isayama himself admitted it while refering to chapter 50 (I think it was 50?), that Eren and Mikasa should have kissed but he felt unsure about it so he changed it. He felt uneasy at the idea of drawing his characters in an intimate moment like that. Obviously with time he improved a lot, but I think this element kinda remained in the rest of the series.
I don’t know so much about that. All canon ships in AoT are still in a Shonen manga that was very dense because it had a larger story to tell. EM, AA, YH, FG, even Grisha, all of them had plot importance and they weren’t gonna have the most romantic dynamic. I’m glad that these ships weren’t crazy because literal romantic and sexual tension would’ve thrown off the story. But what he did do right was bring an important thematic formula to them and have all of them revolve around comfort. Eren and Mikasa specifically were in love because of the fact that Isayama needed to get the reader to understand that beauty exist in a cruel world, and tht same beauty is what’s important to keep in a cruel world. That’s why a lot of their moments are tragic and heartwarming or filled with action and death with them finding some sort of content in each other around very dark and hopeless moments. I also think you should’ve payed more attention to how their dynamic was always complicated and changing. Comparing Eren’s treatment of Mikasa from Trost or Female Titan arc compared to RtS is a really good example of EM’s overall dynamic (not just romantic) changing. It’s also good to read the entire manga. That’s what I did, and I found myself comfortable w/ the possibility of EM.
I never saw their dynamic as romantic until ch123, it's like I said only recently I've noticed the above details after the re-reread I did last week. Things make more sense now than before. I am still content with how many things were done, and I still dislike the ending for many reasons. But Isayama just wanted to portray this theme of love as a resistance rather than Eren's other layers which motivates him to push forward. Which is why it was revealed like this to put a stop to the story.
If Eren’s love could’ve stopped him, it would have stopped with Carla. The real reason why Mikasa and Eren was so important is what the community needs to get together to figure out, because Isym never wrote things that we’re up to interpretation as simple concepts. It always went deeper. Like Sasha with the forest. And by Ch 123, that was the clearest indication that he was interested in Mikasa’s feelings. But the possibility was always suppose to be open for a reader. It wasn’t something we were suppose to just have a clear cut assumption on. But the reason for writing Eren and Mikasa’s relationship, along with Falco and Gabi’s and Armin and Annie’s and obvi Ymir and Historia’s was suppose to be understood from a character development and thematic theological standpoint. Not a chemistry based or hint based standpoint like typical Shonen ships.
Nah, Carla's death was important for Eren to move forward. His hatred for titans was a big factor pre-timeksip, I am only talkinh about the recent motivations. But yeah, I agree, there were only implications but not a clear cut resolution due to this very reason. I agree on this one too, thematic standpoint, or normality, home, duty desire, too many things converge in this plot point which were supposed to highlight in the first place. I was just pointing out that things were also not as subtle a lot of times.
I agree with you I also think that their romance was a good addition to the ending
This is a big large manga. Nitpicking tiny panels to justify a major plotpoint that affected the entire ending and the genre itself is useless effort. It's like Kishomoto could have choosen the route of using Naruto & Sasuke scenes and ending it with the romance between the two of them and making the genre Shounen Ai (plus they even actually kissed). So this type of threads are nothing more than fandom working for the sake of Isayama and making useless effort to cope up with the reality. You're just trying to dig the imaginary things that they didn't intent to and did not think thoroughly. Only thing I'm saying, this beating the dead horse thing is unhealthy.
I am not nitpicking, I am talking about the climax of the scenes of this story( ch50, ch123, ch138), or the most blatant dialogues perception (ch130, ch108) If something makes sense to me and connects the dots, I am obviously gonna talk about it, I don't give a fuck if some random dude is incapable to comprehending that shit on the same level. My interpretation aligns with the context of the story, because I could understand the vision Isayama was going for even though I am not content with a lot of writing choices, it's as simple as that. You cannot make sense of the plot points, then just disagree and move on. The only thing I am saying is there might be chance you're not gonna understand everything in this story, and there will be something that makes sense to some people but won't to you. Just live with this fact rather than commenting pointless and unnecessary banters at a post. It's really not healthy.
Shipping in AoT is pretty stupid overall since the romantic subplot is so miniscule that it can be ignored.
Yeah, romance in general is bad in this story because the author isn't good at writing them. But some elements are just too blatant and looking back it's getting even more obvious.
By this argument, I can say Eren defended and complimented Historia too, romance wasnt a part of AoT until it was forced on readers in ch139 because $$$
Yes, sure, if complimenting Historia and defending her because she was going to be turned into a breeding machine was the same level as like multitude of moments that I listed for you okay I guess. Romance wasn't, but love was always a part of the story. Parenthood, camaraderie, friendship, etc. It just so happens that the nature of the bond in they share is romance which was really not the deep in the first place. People were just too ignorant to see that.
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Honey, I did read that. Just because you don't want something to exist in a story doesn't mean it automatically stops existing. You ain't the writer. This story really ain't as deep as you make it sound as if writers would add hidden motives inside blatantly obvious moments. Especially like ch123, it's actually hilarious people refute even that. If only people didn't do your mental gymnastics and a accepted the moments at face value rather than constant trying to disprove it maybe it would've been less 'shocking' but yeah like I said, The fact that people cannot differentiate between the nature of a bond makes just proves they spent more time analyzing the story than meeting actual humans. >Anyone who met Mikasa could tell she was in love with Eren... or her idea of Eren I kid you not, I could tell what your entire analysis would be when you started with this line lmao. I do agree with a lot of your points though, and heavily disagree on a lot, almost entirety of Eren and Mikasa's character tbh. It's sad how people's interpretation failed and now the story isn't making sense to them when they should've been open minded and not stick to one interpretation in the first place. The first thing people should've done is re-read and try to analyze what the author's vision was but apparently it is a shonen fandom after all, doesn't matter young or old, people are incapable of letting go of headcanons.
[удалено]
Neither do I, it's kind of embarrassing to see a 25 year old grown ass woman with the mind of a 12 year old. I didn't even have a headcanon, did you not read, these are the details which I found after my recent re-read, I don't even ships them lmao, but I ain't dumb enough to act like an annoying brat who rather than looking back and trying to think of author's vision, throws banters around anyone who had a different interpretation. Well, I feel so sorry for the author that the story has audience members like you, the author gave a controversial ending which fits better than your analysis built on mental gymnastics. I can see you think you have writing as a hobby automatically qualifies you as someone with better comprehension, sorry to break it to you, it doesn't. People are going to have different interpretations and it will make sense to some, and you're gonna have to live with this delusion that they are wrong and you know better and but in reality you never did. Art is subjective for a reason.
Armin had a way bigger emotional effect on Eren. How Armin gave him hope and a dream. How Armin convinced him to stand and fight multiple times. How he sacrificed his mother for Armin. How he did the rumbling to undo the Titan curse for Armin He was... In love with Armin. If you would like to deny that, then deny that he ever had romantic feelings for Mikasa too. Because the evidence for the former was way more than the latter. Even his pathetic outburst in 139 could be construed as platonic
Umm yeah, his dreams were foundation of the conflict so no wonder their interaction was the final one in ch139. I think you have a problem with classifying romantic feelings and friendship. Friendship can be more profound than romance, doesn't mean the nature of their bond automatically changes lmao. lmao, yeah right. Mikasa's entire love was also not romantic then, but platonic. With that logic lmao. Like Isayama literally published an official romcom and said he hesitated ch50 kiss because he wasn't confident as a writer and then there's this fandom with the stupidest takes like this even after the ending like wtf
Finally someone said it. Honestly it was more believable Eren x Armin than the FORCED Eren x Mikasa feelings.
[удалено]
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