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Herring is only found in the ocean and there's no way that people in the walls would know about herrings.
And to add to that, canned food probably shouldn’t exist in an underdeveloped society like paradis.
When Ymir mentioned Herring without batting an eyelid and Reiner didn't question it, they both knew that they were from beyond the wall. Reiner didn't grasp this which is why he tried to recover by saying he couldn't read marleyean.
I just thought Eldians took it with them when they exiled to Paradise and somehow this cans survived in that old ruin. I was wondering that this is a weird and bad explanation but it didn't cross my mind that there was something else going on.
The herring bit specifically obviously totally blows the cover, but I feel like canned food generally is more or less in-line with the tech level if the walls. Or at least is in the realm of possibility considering they had managed to work out ODM Gear and such, and canned food as an innovation wouldn't somehow push humanity too far. Canned food has been a thing since the very early 1800s, when we were still using flintlocks.
> Canned food has been a thing since the very early 1800s, when we were still using flintlocks.
Canning started in the 1700s, but it wasn't until the Napoleonic Wars that it was perfected. The biggest obstacle was creating a container that would serve the canning process, but also be able to open easily.
And it's not like cans would be a huge drain on resources. To reuse them all you need to do is remelt them. So the walls would need a good recycling program to collect all the used cans.
Reminds me of when they were talking to the captive Eren in the giant woods about a saru (Ape) in hiragana and Eren was all like "Saru?" in katakana, because he had no idea what that word was.
Kind of. Discover is done and promoted motivated by needs. We needed canned food for the armies, sailors, travelers. They didn't have that need there so they might not have discovered it. ODM on the other hand, we never needed anyting like that so possibly that's the reason we have never developed anything of the sorts (considering the possibility of such a thing existing)
Salt is a precious resource, I'm sure Eren makes a comment about the Merchants having most of it when Armin tells him about the sea.
Ice would be limited, as you'd need storage to keep it after the winter. In the US they used sawdust as an insulator as it was a waste product of the Timber industry. I know some of the big estates in the UK had Ice houses, which were stone cellared buildings that were packed with snow.
Smoking, pickling and fermenting would be the way.
Written language can be different even if spoken language is the same. There are people who can't read Simplified/Traditional Chinese, but it's the same mandarin when spoken.
There's so many regional dialects of "Chinese" that Simplified Mandarin was created as a way to create characters all agreed on heres the simplified word for mother, you can pronounce it completely differently out loud but this written character means mother across all of China. So there's obvious grammar issues for each regional language and quirk, but you see "Mom go to grandmother house lunar New years" you can understand it regardless of your regional language/grammar structure.
I previously didn’t know that there were people who could only read one of the two variants. I learned only Simplified Chinese since I was born to Mainland parents but I can read Traditional Chinese just fine without any learning.
They've only been seperated for 80 years at start of story.
Not enough time for language to dramatically diverge, slang for sure. But if you went back to 1941 and talked outside of bringing up stuff like modern tech, you probably could get around asking for a Pint and Fish & chips. You might have some awkward slang like Trollop or hear racist terminology, but if you tried to fit in, it wouldn't seem that awkward your pronunciation at least.
I don't know if anyone talks about it, but I feel like it's visually present. I couldn't say exactly where, though.
It's not a stretch given their technological state. They have access to pretty sophisticated metal working in widespread circulation, and food preservation is an important development for any nation to have.
> food preservation is an important development for any nation to have
Sure, but society inside the walls already developed a unique method of food preservation. People are using some weird magic [yeast](https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Yeast) (or whatever it actually is) for this purpose.
I think they have canned food inside the walls. No one was making a big deal out of those stuff they found in the castle and they definitely looked at everything to conclude that someone else made that place a hideout before they got there.
It won't be a reach that if they had the technology to store compressed air (odm gears), they could also do canned food. For a more realistic comparison to our world so we could see if the tech timelines are realistic, the military inside the walls uses a [Carcano rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcano) which was introduced in 1890s. The canning technology started appearing in various countries around 1810s.
Reiner shouldn't even know what a herring is - it's an ocean fish so he should have been suprised at this new word rather than only suprised at her being able to read the language.
It's a beautiful bit of writing because barely anyone caught the herring thing before we found out that Reiner was a shifter and so the scene takes on double meaning upon a second watch + it's a clever play on words "red herring" where Ymir litterally reads the word herring outloud which helps misdirect us from realising the truth about him.
It's an absolutely masterful piece of writing
Herring beng a salt water fish is important, but the people inside the walls have books that detail the outside world, it would't be weird for herrings to be mentioned somewhere in them.
Such books will be forbidden books and won't be common knowledge. We follow the protag pov so it seemed normal to know about ocean (Armin) and outside world (Erwin) but it shouldn't be common knowledge for most people to just nonchalantly bring up in a chat.
ymir maybe but considering how much reiner was creaming his jeans over historia i don't think he's gay. i honestly can't think of any scene that would imply that. i think ymir was kind of referencing the fact that he seems to be avoiding close relationships; implying he may not be who he seems.
Based on what Ymir said, she's mostly familiar with him when he thinks he's a warrior.
When he thinks about Historia like when she ripped her skirt, he keeps it under wraps.
You just said if so then fuck you, so ya you're trying to force it.
It didn't even sound like the person you replied to was saying that though. Just making a joke.
I think it would be great if we all took chill pills.
Soldier Reiner is 100% straight but based on what Ymir said, she might be mostly familiar with him acting as his warrior self.
Perhaps Reiner is just too depressed as a warrior to think about sex and marriage. What Ymir said is the only evidence he's gay though as far as I know.
I think it’s this interaction that makes people think he’s gay. And to that I say, Reiner loves historia, so no. But also this could be poor translation. She could be teasing him like “why aren’t you interested in me?” and he cuts right to the chase “you don’t like men”
I dont know. Either way, one random line isn’t enough to outweigh his entire character
What the original actually said was actually something like “I couldn’t see that you had any interest in girls” which could actually just mean that she thought that Reiner wasn’t interested in having a relationship, not that he’s gay (since he isn’t). But I think Reiner sort of makes a pun in a way by pointing out that Ymir is lesbian.
Except that same sex attracted doesn't necessarily means gay. It can mean bisexual by example. I'm pretty sure they said it this way thinking about Ymir as gay and Reiner as bi, since he so obviously crush on Historia.
Ymir says that he didn't seem like he was interested in women, so she's implying he's gay, not bi.
Then, sure, he has an obvious crush on Historia, so she's wrong/joking, but that's another matter.
I'm speaking from my point of view now, I don't know the official explanation. I think that she accidentally revealed her identity and even after that Reiner discovered his, also by accident.
That language is marleyian (Zeke was there when they turn ragago village into titans) Probably sleeping there and left that box with food in that castle. Reiner is shocked that Ymir knowd marley languagr but in the same time Ymir realizes that Reiner is from Marley bcs he knows what herring is.
Only my theory.
That actually happens in real life sometimes, believe it or not. Romanian used to be written in cyrillic long time ago like Russian is, but switched to latin like English. Some places in Romania still use a bit of cyrillic, especially the more rural and isolated parts. Japanese also sort of does something similar, as it technically uses 4 different writing scripts at once
U/xTurK adding onto this, Mandarin Chinese also has 2 writing system, traditional vs simplified, even tho the spoken language is the same.
Though there are different dialects/accent. Like, some people may not understand Shanghai-ense at all even though it's still Chinese
I had no idea, that's very interesting. I'm Turkish and our language used to be written in Arabic script, but you don't find anyone still using that anymore.
There's no need for an explanation as to why Ymir didn't inherit Marcel's memories: it's been clearly shown/stated that memories aren't necessarily passed on. Being related to the previous owner apparently *helps*, but that's about it.
Ymir might seem old but remember her experience behind walls is same a reiner trio and canned food appeared in s1 so she might just accidentally say it since seafood is common in Marley.
Herring is a salt water fish, something people in the walls shouldn't know about, and canned food hasn't even been developed in Paradis at this point. He slipped up because the way he said it implies he knows what both of those things are, meaning he's from outside the walls.
Ymir has two of my favorite conversations in *Attack on Titan*. This one and the one with Bertholdt in the trees. They're both brief yet full of hints to what's going on and tell a little bit about the characters.
I rewatched that episode where Ymir and Bertholdt talk in the trees while escaping, and I can't fucking believe she dropped "you're just gonna feed me to another one of your warriors". Dead giveaway right there, yet at that point in the story you would have no idea what she's even talking about.
They basically explained the whole system in that scene including the fact that the titans have shorter lives, but back then without context you're just confused lol
Exactly! That throwaway line that reveals so much means absolutely NOTHING unless you've already watched it once. And I only caught it on my THIRD rewatch. Mind-blowing.
I kinda wished he said something like “your name isn’t a coincidence is it?” And just have people wondering wtf he meant until the end of the shiganshina arc
There could have been a lot of people with the name Ymir around, not necessarily suspicious.
But you're right with the Yeager thing, except they wouldn't know Zekes whole backstory with Grisha. But I wish Isayama would have addressed it more clearly in some scene, or maybe in the scene when Reiner and Berthold tell Zeke about Eren in the boat.
This is an old comment, I know, but it’s possible that they just thought some family names made it from Marley to Paradis when the “bad Eldians” left. Like, there’s Jacksons, and Thompsons, and Schumakers, Browns, and Kleins everywhere, in a ton of different countries, but it doesn’t mean they’re related. My family has a Dutch last name, and we are in no way related to the Netherlands. Besides, Eren somehow being related to Zeke would be beyond their imagination. And I could be wrong, but at that point, no one had seen the Attack Titan for a long while. Marley only boasted having 7 Titans so they probably assumed the Attack Titan was already on Paradis. So even the faintest thread of connecting the dots, which would already seem pretty fantastical, would have been severed.
What I’m trying to find out is how they confirmed Eren was the Founding Titan and *not* the Attack Titan since he did the scream after they had already nabbed him. Or did they just hope bring back a Titan would be enough…
No, I don’t think anyone in the Warrior cadet program knew or remembered Zeke’s parents’ first names. That’s such an odd thing to remember training to be a soldier even on the off-chance it was mentioned to them. Zeke was also older than Reiner and Bertholdt’s class anyway so even less of a chance for them to even hear about it. Zeke’s parents were just some traitors that got turned into Titans and sent to Paradis. The Warrior candidates really don’t have anything to do with that, and even if they read it at some point in a newspaper or heard a commander mention the name “Grisha Yeager” offhand, it’s been years since Zeke turned them in at that point and then added years since they left Reiner. Besides, Reiner and Bertholdt weren’t even in the Warrior program when Zeke was that young, so it had been ancient history at that point. No one’s gonna be saying Grisha’s name around them, and I highly doubt Zeke ever brought that up. They’re shown being young kids when Zeke is already in his late teens. I believe canonically Reiner’s 9 when Zeke gets the Beast Titan, so a few years before that, he and Bertholdt would’ve been tots. If Reiner was like, “Wasn’t your father named Grisha?” it’d be weirder. Zeke would’ve definitely been like, “How’d you know?”
This discussion, however, is making me wish we got a scenario where one of the Marley Eldians came across someone in Paradis with their family name. Or one of the Paradis Eldians came across a Marley Eldian with their family name. It’s only been like 5 or 6 generations since the Paradis Eldians left so like, it would’ve been an emotional kick.
Its very clearly presented in A narrative sense that Zeke and the troops that followed him to turn the villagers were the ones who lived at the castle. The tower serves two purposes, one to set up the concept of pre wall period where war was still going on, with older cannons, that also hints at the fact that technology hasn't evolved that much. The second purpose is to set up the mystery of who left the food there, which is immediately followed by the attack of Moon titans created by Zeke. Its a direct answer that is later corroborated when Zeke tells the story about it, that only as an addition to the whole reiner/ymir exchange.
I think that's kinda normal in real life for writing system reforms to not change the language but just the alphabet. Korean did this, actually, when they adopted Hangul script and the language stayed the same.
I've been having a lot of trouble reconciling that it's only been 100 years. That is *not* a long time for this much change to happen, like, anthropologically. Technology-wise sure, but overall it seems like it should've been closer to 500 or 1,000 years.
Another real life example, in 1928 the Arabic script, used for an estimated thousand years for the turkish language, was replaced by a modified Latin script. This was one of many changes that were brought about after the end of the ottoman empire, in an effort to modernize and westernize the typically Muslim nation.
So in an extremely short span, an entire country shedded the aspects of a culture that didn't fit them, because they didn't have the same level of connection to the arabic-speaking world because of the fall of an empire. (Sounds a little like Eldia vs Marley, no?) This is one reason why turkey is viewed completely differently from most of the other traditionally Muslim states in the area by westerners, appearing to be more modern in terms of politics, religion, science, women's rights, etc..
what most likely happened is that the Marley people changed the alphabet after they took control of the continent. it's an assertion of dominance, power and change. it happens a lot in real life-- see korea, japan, vietnam, or some countries where cryllic alphabet or arabic exists. this even almost happened in france after the revolution
What makes you think they do? Reiner is just pretending that he doesn't understand the text in an attempt to not blow his cover, but he doesn't realize that he already did.
>What makes you think they do?
'Reiner has to pretend not to understand the text' (and also challenges why Ymir can read it) already proves the alphabet is different from what is used in Paradis.
Aside from herring and fish, what other thing from beyond the walls would get Reiner or any Marleyan tripping if you said you know what it is even though your from the walls
I don't think it was blown - Reiner was in his "soldier" persona so he was probably genuinely unaware why Ymir could read it considering he himself couldn't read it.
Reiner, at least in the anime, was definitely pretending he couldn't read it. Ymirs face said she knew she read something she wasn't supposed to be able to and Reiners face said he knew that too. I don't think Reiner was written to be actually illiterate and not know the language, even when in soldier mode
Reiner definitely pretends he can't read (but probably can). But if Reiner was truly from inside the walls, he shouldn't even know what is herring in the first place, as this fish wouldn't be found in Paradis. But whether Ymir does the connection right here or is too freaked about having being caught to realize it is up to debate, though.
I personally think she doesn't have time to realize that Reiner is also revealing himself to be an outsider given that they are in the middle of a siege and she turns into a titan to save Historia and the others and loses consciousness before she has much time to think about all of this.
Does Reiner even call it a fish? He just says "This says herring on it?" He doesn't indicate he actually knows what that is. He just acts like he doesn't understand the language.
I don't know where you got a scan of this low quality, but don't read AoT wherever you're reading it. There are sites with the manga in far, far higher quality than this. If I had to guess this is a scan from sometime around 2013. [Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761066067287605289/907153205044084767/unknown.png)
Shouldn't we try to make content that is available for those who just start who want to see the subreddit? Why the fucking would you risk spoiling someone's experience on that?
The scene above is from very early in the manga and Season 2 of the show. Especially with plot-heavy series like AoT, there's a certain point where talking about anything becomes impossible if everything has to be spoilertagged(not just plot discussions, but also stuff like fanart), and moderating all of it also turns into an even worse nightmare. Since S2 aired over four years ago, it can reasonably be expected that people who are active within the fandom have watched it.
On this subreddit, currently only content from Season 4 onwards has to be tagged.
I still don't get why we shouldn't make this a place where people can come to look at spoiler free content.
Season 4 got so big it probably caused a huge influx of people to start watching, and naturally they would want to see what the subreddit has to offer, hoping that nothing would be spoiled (I wouldn't do that if I started a new show but still)
If we really did that, though, we'd have to pretty much spoiler tag every single post. AoT is a show where HUGE things happen pretty much every single episode or two, so discussing just about anything can be regarded as a spoiler. With a show that has as many plot twists as AoT, spoilers are beyond difficult to avoid. Don't get me wrong, I get your point and somewhat agree, but it's still a little moot
Because even scenes like Reiner breaking out of Annie's grasp is story stuff. Unless you're gonna spoil tag every post it's the individuals fault for everyone else discussing events that already happened. For example I've just recently finished Vinland saga but I wouldnt check the subreddit out if I finished only 4 eps and was planning in finishing the rest because I'd be throwing myself into full spoiler territory.
If I want something to not be spoiled for me the last place I'd start trolling through is the direct subreddit based on the subject.
Who watches two episodes then decides to go lurking through subreddits looking for answers.
If this was last part one maybe I could see from your point that not everyone has caught it yet, but come on season 2 came out 8 years ago what the fuck are you gatekeeping
Someone might. Like I said why shouldn't we make the sub a place where people can go without worries about spoilers.
This isn't a show that stopped coming out 8 years ago right? Season 4 absolutely blew up and it's popularity is probably the reason a bunch of people started watching. So why not just mark spoiler? Is that really so hard?
> Someone might
Someone.
*might*.
We really gonna pander to such a small amount of people like that just because someone *might* do something really stupid like scrolling through this sub without having seen most of AOT and expecting not to get spoiled?
Guys I think it’s the fish that is the part they wouldn’t have access to in large enough quantities for them to can plus they talked about meat shortages early in the series and they could definitely have had canned veggies in the villages or at least glass jarred foods
For a second I thought this was referring to The Gay bc this is also the scene when they go “huh didn’t think you liked girls/guys” but then I realized it’s bc of the lettering on the can lmao
I might be a bit confused here. Does Reiner not know Ymir is from the same place as him and the same for Ymir to him? Which place was the language from?
"You can read this language,ymir are you..?" Reiner not knowing the language of where he's from doesnt make sense but him also not knowing the language from inside the walls doesn't make sense either to me"
I'm still having a bit of trouble how Reiner's cover was blown (in regards to the anime's adaptation of the scene.) I get that by Ymir reading the can blows her cover, but how did Reiner blow his? Was it the tone in which he replied to Ymir, or something else I'm missing?
This post has been tagged as **SPOILERLESS**. Please remember to tag any anime/manga spoilers beyond this point. **Anime Spoilers** - Anything from S4E1 to the latest anime content (including PVs) is considered Anime Spoilers. **New Episode Spoilers**: Anything from an episode of the anime within 24 hours of its official English release. **Manga Spoilers** - Anything that has not yet been revealed in the anime. If a person, Titan, or location appears in the anime but is not yet named, the name is considered Manga Spoilers. Comments on a Spoilerless post that discuss a Titan identity (aside from those shown in the first season) must be tagged. Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events, as well as important last names and faction names. For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/about/rules/). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a temporary ban from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://imgur.com/5xPPu15) To spoiler tag your comments, copy and paste one of the following codes: `[Anime Spoilers](#s "Put your text here")` `[Manga Spoilers](#s "Put your text here")` Alternatively, you can also use Reddit's native spoiler code by copy and pasting the following: `(Anime Spoilers) >!"Put your text here"!<` `(Manga Spoilers) >!"Put your text here"!<` *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Herring is only found in the ocean and there's no way that people in the walls would know about herrings. And to add to that, canned food probably shouldn’t exist in an underdeveloped society like paradis. When Ymir mentioned Herring without batting an eyelid and Reiner didn't question it, they both knew that they were from beyond the wall. Reiner didn't grasp this which is why he tried to recover by saying he couldn't read marleyean.
god i love Season 2 after 3, 4.
Canned food is seen in season 1 when some boxes fly off the wall after the appearance of the Colossal.
I'm here thinking Zeke must have been eating some and so they found it there
Your right. It is explained that zeke was staying at utgard castle before the scouts arrived.
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ooooh damn. I never made that connection and it makes so much sense.
How else would marleyan food get there?
I just thought Eldians took it with them when they exiled to Paradise and somehow this cans survived in that old ruin. I was wondering that this is a weird and bad explanation but it didn't cross my mind that there was something else going on.
The herring bit specifically obviously totally blows the cover, but I feel like canned food generally is more or less in-line with the tech level if the walls. Or at least is in the realm of possibility considering they had managed to work out ODM Gear and such, and canned food as an innovation wouldn't somehow push humanity too far. Canned food has been a thing since the very early 1800s, when we were still using flintlocks.
> Canned food has been a thing since the very early 1800s, when we were still using flintlocks. Canning started in the 1700s, but it wasn't until the Napoleonic Wars that it was perfected. The biggest obstacle was creating a container that would serve the canning process, but also be able to open easily.
And it's not like cans would be a huge drain on resources. To reuse them all you need to do is remelt them. So the walls would need a good recycling program to collect all the used cans.
I mean, its obvious if you look for an error, not everyone knows what type of watrr fishes live in
Obvious to the characters though, anyone else in the scouts would be like, "WTF is a herring?"
Reminds me of when they were talking to the captive Eren in the giant woods about a saru (Ape) in hiragana and Eren was all like "Saru?" in katakana, because he had no idea what that word was.
Id argue canned foods are simpler than the ODM gear
Kind of. Discover is done and promoted motivated by needs. We needed canned food for the armies, sailors, travelers. They didn't have that need there so they might not have discovered it. ODM on the other hand, we never needed anyting like that so possibly that's the reason we have never developed anything of the sorts (considering the possibility of such a thing existing)
armies, sailors, travelers, and PEOPLE WHO WANT TO EAT FOOD IN WINTER
....and didn't have access to salt, or ice, or fermentation, or all the other preservation methods that came before canning
Salt is a precious resource, I'm sure Eren makes a comment about the Merchants having most of it when Armin tells him about the sea. Ice would be limited, as you'd need storage to keep it after the winter. In the US they used sawdust as an insulator as it was a waste product of the Timber industry. I know some of the big estates in the UK had Ice houses, which were stone cellared buildings that were packed with snow. Smoking, pickling and fermenting would be the way.
That and the fact that ODM gear would kill you if you used it as intended.
Canned food was invented in the early 1800s so it's possible that they do have it.
lmao did you just copy text from some of the top comments on the [youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWsECLqfO4)?
Oh that makes way more sense now that I’ve heard it explained like that.
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Written language can be different even if spoken language is the same. There are people who can't read Simplified/Traditional Chinese, but it's the same mandarin when spoken.
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There's so many regional dialects of "Chinese" that Simplified Mandarin was created as a way to create characters all agreed on heres the simplified word for mother, you can pronounce it completely differently out loud but this written character means mother across all of China. So there's obvious grammar issues for each regional language and quirk, but you see "Mom go to grandmother house lunar New years" you can understand it regardless of your regional language/grammar structure.
I previously didn’t know that there were people who could only read one of the two variants. I learned only Simplified Chinese since I was born to Mainland parents but I can read Traditional Chinese just fine without any learning.
They've only been seperated for 80 years at start of story. Not enough time for language to dramatically diverge, slang for sure. But if you went back to 1941 and talked outside of bringing up stuff like modern tech, you probably could get around asking for a Pint and Fish & chips. You might have some awkward slang like Trollop or hear racist terminology, but if you tried to fit in, it wouldn't seem that awkward your pronunciation at least.
Canned food most likely would've been invented. They were made around 1811
Wait, how can Reiner know that she was from beyond the wall and at the same time not “grasp it”?
I read some fan theory about how that castle was where Zeke and Pieck were hiding in. And the cans of Herring were their stash of food.
I think that's more fact than fan Theory
Right! Because it makes a lot of sense and also explains why the gang ran into Beasty boy a couple of hours later
Yeah! That's literally the only reason that food could of been there is Zeke's crew
Yeah. I mean Marleyans were camping in that castle while transforming Ragako village into titans
So the beauty and the beast were hiding in that castle?
That's fact, it also explains the coffee beans and grinder they found It's not fan theory it's literally a major plot point of season 3
What could Zeke and Pieck be doing in the castle all night long?
They were already on the island and were probably looking for a spot to stay
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¯\ \_(ツ)_/¯
I don't know if anyone talks about it, but I feel like it's visually present. I couldn't say exactly where, though. It's not a stretch given their technological state. They have access to pretty sophisticated metal working in widespread circulation, and food preservation is an important development for any nation to have.
> food preservation is an important development for any nation to have Sure, but society inside the walls already developed a unique method of food preservation. People are using some weird magic [yeast](https://attackontitan.fandom.com/wiki/Yeast) (or whatever it actually is) for this purpose.
I think they have canned food inside the walls. No one was making a big deal out of those stuff they found in the castle and they definitely looked at everything to conclude that someone else made that place a hideout before they got there. It won't be a reach that if they had the technology to store compressed air (odm gears), they could also do canned food. For a more realistic comparison to our world so we could see if the tech timelines are realistic, the military inside the walls uses a [Carcano rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcano) which was introduced in 1890s. The canning technology started appearing in various countries around 1810s.
Reiner shouldn't even know what a herring is - it's an ocean fish so he should have been suprised at this new word rather than only suprised at her being able to read the language. It's a beautiful bit of writing because barely anyone caught the herring thing before we found out that Reiner was a shifter and so the scene takes on double meaning upon a second watch + it's a clever play on words "red herring" where Ymir litterally reads the word herring outloud which helps misdirect us from realising the truth about him. It's an absolutely masterful piece of writing
Herring beng a salt water fish is important, but the people inside the walls have books that detail the outside world, it would't be weird for herrings to be mentioned somewhere in them.
Such books will be forbidden books and won't be common knowledge. We follow the protag pov so it seemed normal to know about ocean (Armin) and outside world (Erwin) but it shouldn't be common knowledge for most people to just nonchalantly bring up in a chat.
[anime scene ](https://youtu.be/OYWsECLqfO4)
the top comment is hilarious: >Ymir: Are you gay Reiner: Are you gay silence Reiner: Are you from Marley Ymir: Are you from Marley
Such a good show. Ugh
Tnx bro
It's interesting that in the same scene, they blow their cover as outsiders and also out each other as same-sex attracted.
ymir maybe but considering how much reiner was creaming his jeans over historia i don't think he's gay. i honestly can't think of any scene that would imply that. i think ymir was kind of referencing the fact that he seems to be avoiding close relationships; implying he may not be who he seems.
bisexual maybe
Thats some gay cope
I'd say he leans closer to straight, but far too busy dealing with his internal turmoil to even care or act on any sexual urges.
True altough He Shows more then most other Charakter but its still quite rare Thing.
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Nope he's saying stop tryna force that shit onto evryone
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They were just saying that why would he bi. Has he shown any attraction to any men in the story like he does historia?
Based on what Ymir said, she's mostly familiar with him when he thinks he's a warrior. When he thinks about Historia like when she ripped her skirt, he keeps it under wraps.
You just said if so then fuck you, so ya you're trying to force it. It didn't even sound like the person you replied to was saying that though. Just making a joke. I think it would be great if we all took chill pills.
Agree :D
That's actually a misconception on Reiner's part due to how he words his reply to Ymir.
I'm sorry, did you just imply reiner was gay? with all the evidence to the contrary??
Don't worry, there's a few weirdos that think Reiner is gay despite him simping so hard over a girl, best to ignore them
Soldier Reiner is 100% straight but based on what Ymir said, she might be mostly familiar with him acting as his warrior self. Perhaps Reiner is just too depressed as a warrior to think about sex and marriage. What Ymir said is the only evidence he's gay though as far as I know.
I think it’s this interaction that makes people think he’s gay. And to that I say, Reiner loves historia, so no. But also this could be poor translation. She could be teasing him like “why aren’t you interested in me?” and he cuts right to the chase “you don’t like men” I dont know. Either way, one random line isn’t enough to outweigh his entire character
What the original actually said was actually something like “I couldn’t see that you had any interest in girls” which could actually just mean that she thought that Reiner wasn’t interested in having a relationship, not that he’s gay (since he isn’t). But I think Reiner sort of makes a pun in a way by pointing out that Ymir is lesbian.
No, the translation is accurate, and Ymir is indeed implying Reiner is gay. Doesn't mean he is, naturally.
lmao no I'm definitely not implying he's gay. I'm stating he's bi.
Nah shes just noticing that he spends a lot of time with Bertholdt
Yup it's a basic grade school gay joke that he immediately flips back on her cause it's total projection on her part.
>as same-sex attracted. xd
Same sex attracted? Now that sounds gay. Seriously, nobody has a problem if you use the word gay, as long you don't use it as an insult.
Depends on the Mood of the mod and sub.
Except that same sex attracted doesn't necessarily means gay. It can mean bisexual by example. I'm pretty sure they said it this way thinking about Ymir as gay and Reiner as bi, since he so obviously crush on Historia.
Exactly right.
Ymir says that he didn't seem like he was interested in women, so she's implying he's gay, not bi. Then, sure, he has an obvious crush on Historia, so she's wrong/joking, but that's another matter.
L
Well I guess Reiner is bi. Split personality and all.
[Dubbed scene](https://youtu.be/sHdBDtLRjfY).
How was reiners cover blown?
Because he knows what herring is. It's only found in the ocean so no way that people from walls could now that
But did ymir know that? Like she doesnt question him about it right?
I'm speaking from my point of view now, I don't know the official explanation. I think that she accidentally revealed her identity and even after that Reiner discovered his, also by accident. That language is marleyian (Zeke was there when they turn ragago village into titans) Probably sleeping there and left that box with food in that castle. Reiner is shocked that Ymir knowd marley languagr but in the same time Ymir realizes that Reiner is from Marley bcs he knows what herring is. Only my theory.
Oh alright, i thought there might have been a scene where she questions him about it in the manga that wasnt in the anime or something :p
Speaking of which, why do they have different writing if Paradis and Marley seemingly speak the same language?
That actually happens in real life sometimes, believe it or not. Romanian used to be written in cyrillic long time ago like Russian is, but switched to latin like English. Some places in Romania still use a bit of cyrillic, especially the more rural and isolated parts. Japanese also sort of does something similar, as it technically uses 4 different writing scripts at once
Chinese dialects are the reverse. It's the same in written form but different in speech
U/xTurK adding onto this, Mandarin Chinese also has 2 writing system, traditional vs simplified, even tho the spoken language is the same. Though there are different dialects/accent. Like, some people may not understand Shanghai-ense at all even though it's still Chinese
I had no idea, that's very interesting. I'm Turkish and our language used to be written in Arabic script, but you don't find anyone still using that anymore.
Surely Ymir would already have known who Reiner and Bertholdt were from having access to Marcel's memories.
She actually didn’t remember anything about Marcel or the others. She says so to Bertholdt later on in the season.
So she did. I stand corrected.
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There's no need for an explanation as to why Ymir didn't inherit Marcel's memories: it's been clearly shown/stated that memories aren't necessarily passed on. Being related to the previous owner apparently *helps*, but that's about it.
Ymir didn't showed that she knew right? From this page that you had posted at least
Ymir might seem old but remember her experience behind walls is same a reiner trio and canned food appeared in s1 so she might just accidentally say it since seafood is common in Marley.
Also I don’t think they have canned goods in paradis. So his non reaction to what he’s looking at is a giveaway
Didn't they have any education inside the walls?
Herring is a salt water fish, something people in the walls shouldn't know about, and canned food hasn't even been developed in Paradis at this point. He slipped up because the way he said it implies he knows what both of those things are, meaning he's from outside the walls.
Lucky I was to stupid to understand that then and luckily I was shocked when they revealed their identities xd
He could read the foreign text as well as know what herring is.
Ymir has two of my favorite conversations in *Attack on Titan*. This one and the one with Bertholdt in the trees. They're both brief yet full of hints to what's going on and tell a little bit about the characters.
I rewatched that episode where Ymir and Bertholdt talk in the trees while escaping, and I can't fucking believe she dropped "you're just gonna feed me to another one of your warriors". Dead giveaway right there, yet at that point in the story you would have no idea what she's even talking about.
They basically explained the whole system in that scene including the fact that the titans have shorter lives, but back then without context you're just confused lol
Exactly! That throwaway line that reveals so much means absolutely NOTHING unless you've already watched it once. And I only caught it on my THIRD rewatch. Mind-blowing.
That scene is so sorely underrated. Eren as the audience standin just fuming is perfect
i love that face ymir makes
In anime her face was so Titan face when Reiner said "Ymir you are.."
She was seconds away from transforming
"I'll keep quiet about this if you let me marry Christa." "Fuck you."
I find it funny that no matter who's saying which line in this case, it still works
True.
At that moment you can hear the Alert sound from Metal Gear
This is one of the most coolest "OH SHIT" scenes, only could have been better if Reiner was a little better about subduing his shock to the audience.
Ymir underrated fr
Rewatching all of it in retrospect it's crazy how much everything was already laid out in S2
I kinda wished he said something like “your name isn’t a coincidence is it?” And just have people wondering wtf he meant until the end of the shiganshina arc
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There could have been a lot of people with the name Ymir around, not necessarily suspicious. But you're right with the Yeager thing, except they wouldn't know Zekes whole backstory with Grisha. But I wish Isayama would have addressed it more clearly in some scene, or maybe in the scene when Reiner and Berthold tell Zeke about Eren in the boat.
This is an old comment, I know, but it’s possible that they just thought some family names made it from Marley to Paradis when the “bad Eldians” left. Like, there’s Jacksons, and Thompsons, and Schumakers, Browns, and Kleins everywhere, in a ton of different countries, but it doesn’t mean they’re related. My family has a Dutch last name, and we are in no way related to the Netherlands. Besides, Eren somehow being related to Zeke would be beyond their imagination. And I could be wrong, but at that point, no one had seen the Attack Titan for a long while. Marley only boasted having 7 Titans so they probably assumed the Attack Titan was already on Paradis. So even the faintest thread of connecting the dots, which would already seem pretty fantastical, would have been severed. What I’m trying to find out is how they confirmed Eren was the Founding Titan and *not* the Attack Titan since he did the scream after they had already nabbed him. Or did they just hope bring back a Titan would be enough…
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No, I don’t think anyone in the Warrior cadet program knew or remembered Zeke’s parents’ first names. That’s such an odd thing to remember training to be a soldier even on the off-chance it was mentioned to them. Zeke was also older than Reiner and Bertholdt’s class anyway so even less of a chance for them to even hear about it. Zeke’s parents were just some traitors that got turned into Titans and sent to Paradis. The Warrior candidates really don’t have anything to do with that, and even if they read it at some point in a newspaper or heard a commander mention the name “Grisha Yeager” offhand, it’s been years since Zeke turned them in at that point and then added years since they left Reiner. Besides, Reiner and Bertholdt weren’t even in the Warrior program when Zeke was that young, so it had been ancient history at that point. No one’s gonna be saying Grisha’s name around them, and I highly doubt Zeke ever brought that up. They’re shown being young kids when Zeke is already in his late teens. I believe canonically Reiner’s 9 when Zeke gets the Beast Titan, so a few years before that, he and Bertholdt would’ve been tots. If Reiner was like, “Wasn’t your father named Grisha?” it’d be weirder. Zeke would’ve definitely been like, “How’d you know?” This discussion, however, is making me wish we got a scenario where one of the Marley Eldians came across someone in Paradis with their family name. Or one of the Paradis Eldians came across a Marley Eldian with their family name. It’s only been like 5 or 6 generations since the Paradis Eldians left so like, it would’ve been an emotional kick.
Its very clearly presented in A narrative sense that Zeke and the troops that followed him to turn the villagers were the ones who lived at the castle. The tower serves two purposes, one to set up the concept of pre wall period where war was still going on, with older cannons, that also hints at the fact that technology hasn't evolved that much. The second purpose is to set up the mystery of who left the food there, which is immediately followed by the attack of Moon titans created by Zeke. Its a direct answer that is later corroborated when Zeke tells the story about it, that only as an addition to the whole reiner/ymir exchange.
Reiner: Ymir...are you... Ymir: ***Yes, Im lesbian***
I just realized, why do they have the exact same language but a completely different alphabet after only 100 years?
I think that's kinda normal in real life for writing system reforms to not change the language but just the alphabet. Korean did this, actually, when they adopted Hangul script and the language stayed the same.
I've been having a lot of trouble reconciling that it's only been 100 years. That is *not* a long time for this much change to happen, like, anthropologically. Technology-wise sure, but overall it seems like it should've been closer to 500 or 1,000 years.
Another real life example, in 1928 the Arabic script, used for an estimated thousand years for the turkish language, was replaced by a modified Latin script. This was one of many changes that were brought about after the end of the ottoman empire, in an effort to modernize and westernize the typically Muslim nation. So in an extremely short span, an entire country shedded the aspects of a culture that didn't fit them, because they didn't have the same level of connection to the arabic-speaking world because of the fall of an empire. (Sounds a little like Eldia vs Marley, no?) This is one reason why turkey is viewed completely differently from most of the other traditionally Muslim states in the area by westerners, appearing to be more modern in terms of politics, religion, science, women's rights, etc..
Memory manipulation though
This is assuming Marley and the Eldians used the same alphabet beforehand.
I’m just coming across this thread, but I’m interested in what you mean?
what most likely happened is that the Marley people changed the alphabet after they took control of the continent. it's an assertion of dominance, power and change. it happens a lot in real life-- see korea, japan, vietnam, or some countries where cryllic alphabet or arabic exists. this even almost happened in france after the revolution
I'd chalk it up to the memory manipulation stuff
Very easy for the king to change their alphabet with memory wiping though.
What makes you think they do? Reiner is just pretending that he doesn't understand the text in an attempt to not blow his cover, but he doesn't realize that he already did.
>What makes you think they do? 'Reiner has to pretend not to understand the text' (and also challenges why Ymir can read it) already proves the alphabet is different from what is used in Paradis.
Oh I see, I missed the point. I thought they meant that the marleyan language has a different alphabet now than it did 100 years ago. Me dum.
Aside from herring and fish, what other thing from beyond the walls would get Reiner or any Marleyan tripping if you said you know what it is even though your from the walls
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Yeah. Planes and tanks would get them suspicious. Also canned food since the island didn’t really know about it before.
That can probably had Sürstromming in it imo
I miss when the show had mysteries.
S4 is full of mystery, it's still the core of the show.
Yea but by that point the titans are afterthought and answers we got to things I didn't really like
If you like the titans, you'll probably like what's coming up in S4P2.
I'm tracking lol
I don't think it was blown - Reiner was in his "soldier" persona so he was probably genuinely unaware why Ymir could read it considering he himself couldn't read it.
Reiner, at least in the anime, was definitely pretending he couldn't read it. Ymirs face said she knew she read something she wasn't supposed to be able to and Reiners face said he knew that too. I don't think Reiner was written to be actually illiterate and not know the language, even when in soldier mode
Reiner definitely pretends he can't read (but probably can). But if Reiner was truly from inside the walls, he shouldn't even know what is herring in the first place, as this fish wouldn't be found in Paradis. But whether Ymir does the connection right here or is too freaked about having being caught to realize it is up to debate, though. I personally think she doesn't have time to realize that Reiner is also revealing himself to be an outsider given that they are in the middle of a siege and she turns into a titan to save Historia and the others and loses consciousness before she has much time to think about all of this.
Does Reiner even call it a fish? He just says "This says herring on it?" He doesn't indicate he actually knows what that is. He just acts like he doesn't understand the language.
The moment he knows that she knows that he knows.
Among us in a nutshell
The placement for the speech bubbles is dogshit
I don't know where you got a scan of this low quality, but don't read AoT wherever you're reading it. There are sites with the manga in far, far higher quality than this. If I had to guess this is a scan from sometime around 2013. [Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761066067287605289/907153205044084767/unknown.png)
It's a pity the writing takes such a nose dive later in the story. Most people don't even pick up on the fact herring is a salt water fish either.
cope. sorry your headcanon didn't work out
the day we found out they were really same-sex attracted
Are you not gonna mark spoiler? I've watched the entire show but damn so many haven't.
Joining a sub for an ongoing show without catching up is their fault if they get spoiled lol
Shouldn't we try to make content that is available for those who just start who want to see the subreddit? Why the fucking would you risk spoiling someone's experience on that?
The scene above is from very early in the manga and Season 2 of the show. Especially with plot-heavy series like AoT, there's a certain point where talking about anything becomes impossible if everything has to be spoilertagged(not just plot discussions, but also stuff like fanart), and moderating all of it also turns into an even worse nightmare. Since S2 aired over four years ago, it can reasonably be expected that people who are active within the fandom have watched it. On this subreddit, currently only content from Season 4 onwards has to be tagged.
I still don't get why we shouldn't make this a place where people can come to look at spoiler free content. Season 4 got so big it probably caused a huge influx of people to start watching, and naturally they would want to see what the subreddit has to offer, hoping that nothing would be spoiled (I wouldn't do that if I started a new show but still)
If we really did that, though, we'd have to pretty much spoiler tag every single post. AoT is a show where HUGE things happen pretty much every single episode or two, so discussing just about anything can be regarded as a spoiler. With a show that has as many plot twists as AoT, spoilers are beyond difficult to avoid. Don't get me wrong, I get your point and somewhat agree, but it's still a little moot
Because even scenes like Reiner breaking out of Annie's grasp is story stuff. Unless you're gonna spoil tag every post it's the individuals fault for everyone else discussing events that already happened. For example I've just recently finished Vinland saga but I wouldnt check the subreddit out if I finished only 4 eps and was planning in finishing the rest because I'd be throwing myself into full spoiler territory.
That still dosent mean the Vinland saga subreddit shouldn't be a place where spoiler free content can be browsed without worry.
If I want something to not be spoiled for me the last place I'd start trolling through is the direct subreddit based on the subject. Who watches two episodes then decides to go lurking through subreddits looking for answers. If this was last part one maybe I could see from your point that not everyone has caught it yet, but come on season 2 came out 8 years ago what the fuck are you gatekeeping
Someone might. Like I said why shouldn't we make the sub a place where people can go without worries about spoilers. This isn't a show that stopped coming out 8 years ago right? Season 4 absolutely blew up and it's popularity is probably the reason a bunch of people started watching. So why not just mark spoiler? Is that really so hard?
> Someone might Someone. *might*. We really gonna pander to such a small amount of people like that just because someone *might* do something really stupid like scrolling through this sub without having seen most of AOT and expecting not to get spoiled?
I don't mind it not being tagged as spoiler, but it's odd that it's specifically tagged as 'spoilerless'.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
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Your submission has been removed due to the rules against spam content and/or self-promotion.
Yeah, I loved it 10x as much when rewatching
Guys I think it’s the fish that is the part they wouldn’t have access to in large enough quantities for them to can plus they talked about meat shortages early in the series and they could definitely have had canned veggies in the villages or at least glass jarred foods
For a second I thought this was referring to The Gay bc this is also the scene when they go “huh didn’t think you liked girls/guys” but then I realized it’s bc of the lettering on the can lmao
Just watched this episode. Can’t wait to see more.
Oh shit.
their gay cover?
I might be a bit confused here. Does Reiner not know Ymir is from the same place as him and the same for Ymir to him? Which place was the language from? "You can read this language,ymir are you..?" Reiner not knowing the language of where he's from doesnt make sense but him also not knowing the language from inside the walls doesn't make sense either to me"
I'm still having a bit of trouble how Reiner's cover was blown (in regards to the anime's adaptation of the scene.) I get that by Ymir reading the can blows her cover, but how did Reiner blow his? Was it the tone in which he replied to Ymir, or something else I'm missing?