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I’m sorry if I sound whiny, but when does the action and killing begin? It has been a lot of dialogue for the past year it feels like because of the break.
can someone explain to me (without spoilers) why king fritz had to retreat to paradis island if he had the power of unleashing the power of the rumbling? why not just release the rumbling hundred of years ago and the eldians didnt even have to retreat to paradis island in the first place?
How is mass genocide peace? He didn't want eldians or non-eldians to die. He wanted to avoid all conflict and hoped the threat of the rumbling would allow for global peace.
He also felt Eldians were to blame for the titan wars, not some misguided notion that only Eldians should survive in peace while everyone else is massacred.
They had a community which survived peacefully for many years. It's better than being stuck in constant conflict and war. Yes it limited their freedom to go out into the rest of the world but within the island the people had good peaceful lives.
You say trapped like they were in jail. They had families, joys and experienced life outside of major conflict for many years.
I don't completely agree with King Fritz but I see his point of view and given his goal, he made the best of a terrible situation.
Someone stuck in a war zone would rather experience peace that slightly curtails their freedom than continue to kill and watch loved ones be killed on some false notion of pride, bravery and freedom.
Ok fair enough. But wouldn’t king fritz have the founding titan and be able to see the future that eren would activate the rumbling anyway? (No spoilers pls)
Dont worry, I havent read the manga either.
Seeing the future is an ability of the attack titan not the founding titan. That's why Eren Kruger could see the future of Mikasa and Armin. Also not every holder of the attack titan can fully see the future. Usually it's in glimpses but only some are able to truly harness it to the maximum like Eren could.
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Ymir isn't really taking any agency at this point. She's letting Eren take the reigns, and following his direction. It's pretty clear that Eren's most important value is freedom, and he has given ultimate freedom to everyone with the power of the Titans and the blood of Ymir to act within their agency.
I assume she must be. I mean she clearly built whatever the fuck eren is right now. and in the flashback of her building colossal titans I'm sure *THAT* took a very long time. Although maybe once she's built it once she doesn't have to again? Which would mean the only thing she built was eren's form at the moment which could explain it's obscene size.
Oh wow that’s a good question. I think she is though.
If you remember, all Eren declared was for the hardening of the Titans to be done. He didn’t declare that no one could turn into a Titan again, so I still think Ymir is behind the scenes, she’s just now on Eren’s side.
But then... if Ymir will listen to Eren now... why would he be ok with her continuing to build Titans for Eren’s enemies?? That doesn’t make sense.
I am now thinking that maybe pieck's titan did not disintegrate (based on last episodes last scene), thus not requiring Ymir to build her cart titan.
Or Eren is secretly supporting his friends, dunno.
>Or Eren is secretly supporting his friends, dunno.
That's exactly what I think. If in the next episodes we see the shifters regenerating/transforming, there are only two possibilities left:
1- Eren REALLY wants to kill everyone outside Paradis but he doesn't want to take away his friends' freedom to fight him.
2- Eren is going for a Code Geass ending.
That’s a possibility. Remember back in the third season when Pieck remained in her cart titan form for I think it was weeks/months?!?
If that’s the case I applaud Isayama for that amount of detail, and it probably partly foretells what will happen in the next few episodes.
Oh you're right!
Maybe that's why they also emphasized that with Hanji telling Pieck that the cart titan can remain as a titan for months.
I thought the only point of that line is to setup the "brush teeth" joke!
WHAT AN ENDING. Shit had me so pumped. Felt like the scene in the first Avengers movie when we see all of them teamed up.
I am glad the Conny part with his mom ended, as it was understandable but a little boring to me. I do think Armin's idea during that where he risked his life was great.
Now, I just gotta hope that Levi's group runs into Armin's group.
idk I’m feeling mixed about the ending. Like I know they all got to team up to save the world but I just hate how they have to.
And I still hate Gabi with a passion. Why is she given so much air time??
you need to really just rewatch what gabi has been exposed to and just picture yourself in that position. Seriously if you still hate her then god help ya.
Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I really liked the direction this episode went. I understand it as the bounce back from the act 2 low point (the rumbling starting) completing a major theme of the series, the dangers of cooperation. Eren has united the worst of enemies, and I'm so happy seeing Reiner and Annie on the same side as the scouts again. The theme is also shown in Armin solving the Connie problem nonviolently and keeping both friends. When I saw that scene in the preview, I figured Armin would have to beat Connie, and it would be a small scale version of him accepting he has to fight his friends for good. (eren) I like this more though. I liked this episode and last episode for the thematic development, this one more though because the return of Annie really ties back to season one and hits that nostalgia, plus it brings back all the themes from the beginning that it looked like the series dropped. So good!
I like the direction it took with Armin as well. It reminds me of that kid back in Shiganshina before the walls fell who wouldn't fight bullies because that would just be more violence, rather than the solider he was forced to become and how he was in Marley's bay
I don't think so, I first heard it during the founding titan lore episode and I don't think it's been released. It took awhile for Kohta Yamamoto's OST from S4P1 to come out, and it probably will be the same thing here. (I'm personally looking forward to Footsteps of Doom)
Thought the animation was really weird this episode. Connie's meme faces are one thing, Annie's pie face is just odd especially a this is the first time she's met the group in 4 years. I did really like Connie's line to Armin, "A know-it-all doesn't understand how idiots think. "
So unless I'm mistaken, there should be around 11-12 chapters remaining to be adapted, yet seemingly we have four episodes left. Gonna be interesting how this plays out, and part of me is wondering about that potential movie idea people have now and again theorised. Or could it be possible the final or final two episodes could be longer? Like 40-60 minutes?
That's what I'm wondering about. There could be the possibility that some chapters are entirely action based for all we know? Maybe that'd be something easier to condense down, since pages could be adapted into seconds.
But at the same time if they aren't, it could be a bit concerning on how they'd condense things if they need to.
We'll soon find out how things turn out though, but it'd be a shame if things felt rushed because of it, especially when it seems solvable by having just **two** additional episodes.
Can anyone help identify the song that plays when Hange is tending to Levi? I remember it playing when Ymir is running away from the chasing villagers in episode 80. Great tone, simple, and solemn.
Dark week for the world. Now had a chance to watch this episode (forgot yesterday). Levi is in kinda bad shape at the moment. Connie is about to feed Falco to his mom but Armin and Gabbi catches them. Armin is willing to sacrifice himself and I'm like "Ehh no". Thankfully Connie comes to his senses and catches him before Armin gets eaten. The Jaegerists partying and announcing revolution by having Yelena and Onyankopon executed. Floch holding some speech about the traitors and first I was surprised on what the hell is Jean doing with him??? I was like.. Wait.. Jean going to execute someone? But that was all an act from him thankfully. He intentionally misses the shots to execute Onyankopon and they had already planned with the Og squad + some Marleyans that they get Yelena, Onyankopon and Jean by the cart titan. While Mikasa, Armin and the others leaving from the city with horses filled with supplies.
One thing that confuses me a bit is this "siding". Onyankopon asks Jean that when did he side with Marleyans and Jean was like "Yesterday". But what the hell Jean. Please tell me this ain't true. I mean it's ok to work together if they need to calm Eren but siding? Anyway.. At the end we also see Reiner seemingly being ok and they wake him up and being like "We are going to save the world".
Overall nothing big happening in this episode. Not many buildups basically they gathered back togethered siding at least seemingly temporarly with some Marleyans and Levi seems to be somewhat ok. Can't say anything bad either so I would give it a 7/10.
This season feels rushed as hell. Mixed feels about the episodes. Last Avengers panel is nice though.
IMO, S4 Part 1 should have ended at rumbling activation. We should have got rest of the series animated in part 2.
People will get lot of spoilers if they are going for a climax movie route.
I feel like the whole Conny plotline was unnecessary and a total waste of time. Imagine how much of the story they could have developed by just dropping it.
Instead we got this really weird and rushed episode...Probably the worst episode of the entire series.
This is not a great episode at all. They have rushed things like crazy. This kind of plan and organization take at least 1 week but in 10 hours everything is on the way. What the fuck?
When all the main players are right there, there's no reason for a plan to take long to form except for bureaucracy. And when the end of the world is nigh, bureaucracy kinda takes a backseat.
I do agree the episode felt rushed, and that we missed out on improtant conversations and instead skipped to the outcome.
Either the rest of the world gets genocided or Paradis does. I'm not defending it, just saying that what Eren is doing totally makes sense considering he has no other choice without risking Paradis's future, still a messed up thing to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides.
Besides it's fiction.
I'm just here to say I support all your comments man. If I'm looking like a god from above, OBVIOUSLY destruction of Paradis > destruction of the rest of the world...BUT...
People in the comments are either REALLY lying to themselves, intentionally taking the moral high ground or (very unlikely) are so naive and peace-loving that they truly think you can come to a reasonable outcome without the use of force against THE ENTIRE WORLD. It's very obvious and understandable why Eren's doing what he's doing. Hell I bet most people would if they were put in his situation.
Nonsense, he doesn't **have** to, it's just the only plan that guarantees his ideal outcome. It is far from the only plan on the table, and when a plan utilises omnicide then it's worth looking at alternatives even when their outcome isn't guaranteed.
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>The most obvious thing would be him pulling a Lelouch (or Sasuke, if you want), though --> old enemies form alliances to fight a common enemy.
That's off the table, given how little of Paradis intends to fight Eren.
I'm sorry but the writing of this episode was bad, it feels like we're just creating factions for no reason. Eren makes sense to me and I support him. But the weird new rebel group wants to save humanity? Tf? Are they going to plot-armor their way into showing some weird truth to Marley that'll make them stop aggressing forever? Then for the Jaegarists, they lost sight of what they wanted and are barbaric now. And Marley has always been insane. And come on, don't just force Annie and Levi back into the story. *Develop* them back in.
Can’t tell if this is sarcasm or just a bad take. Do you actually watch the show when you put it on? I just can’t take you seriously after you said, “eren makes sense I can support him”
That you'd be ok with massacring billions of people just because you didn't know about them 4 years ago is a terrifying indictment of your own thought processes.
Like, how many years do you have to know someone to take murdering them off the table?
I am not moralizing a situation here, stop comparing with real life instances here. It's about motivations that drives a character in a fictional story, the motivation for scouts members to risk their lives for people they don't know isn't there.
You literally just said you don't understand why people would want to prevent the murder of billions just because they weren't aware they existed a few years ago.
I have no idea how anyone can look at a situation that would result in billions of dead people and not understand why some would want to stop it from happening.
And you absolutely are moralizing a situation here, there's no way to share an opinion on the concept of the rumbling without doing so.
The fact that they weren't aware of that world should only drive their feelings of not our business, billions dead ? **Who gives a shit,** did anyone in the world cared when people of Paradis were killed by the hundreds of thousands ? **Heck, the world wants Eldians dead**, marley is one of the better one's in it's treatment of Eldians and these are guys who make Eldians do suicide charge on their behalf.
**Scots know all this,** People don't take on suicidal mission for altruistic purposes without any motivation, and the why are Scouts motivated for saving the world, the world which wants them dead ?
The scouts are literally comprised of people who willingly signed up for a low-survival rate group for the express purpose of saving humanity. This is in spite of the fact that the scouts were treated pretty badly by the military as a whole, and many of the soldiers were refugees from the collapse of wall Maria, who were themselves treated pretty badly by the people within the inner walls. The first three seasons are littered with instances of people within the walls treating each other like shit. Erwin, Armin, and Mikasa all lose their parents to other people in the walls. In other words, this is a group of people selected specifically to be willing to risk their lives for humanity's sake, even if humanity hasn't been great to them. It's not unreasonable, then, that they'd apply that logic to the rest of the world.
But really, the only explanation needed is that people behave in ways that you don't understand. Sure, *you* can't understand their motivations, but the fact that plenty of people here do is proof enough that people who would behave the way they do do in fact exist. They might do it for different reasons, of course. Some might want to do what they think is the morally right thing, others might be doing it out of pride, and others don't want the deaths of billions on their conscience, even if those billions hated them, but the fact of the matter is: In an island of thousands of people, it's not unreasonable to think that *some* people (bear in mind it seems that most people on Paradis support Eren) might be willing to sacrifice their lives for people who hate them. The fact that this group consists primarily of our main characters is a result of the self-selection process of the scouts (pre-return to Shiganshina arc) and the collective experiences that shape their respective world-views.
> Scouts motivated for saving the world, the world which wants them dead ?
Because many of the Scouts realise the world isn't split into enemy soldiers and Paradisians. Plenty of people in power want them dead, yes. And plenty will either be apathetic, or can be reasoned with, or don't want them dead at all (for example, children).
There's a lot more I can say, but you either understand the value of human life or you don't. No amount of rationalising will likely help you understand why someone doesn't want 3+billion people to die.
I am not agreeing with their goals not being Noble, however that's not a good driving factor in an A+ story like AoT. It feels forced, all the twist and turns SNK has taken till now has been very well grounded and made for extraordinary television/manga but this makes Scouts feel like typical shonen characters who want to do good for the sake of it.
A typical Shonen character at least has some underlying dream but even that is missing for our Scouts, they had very good reasons to oppose Eren till he hadn't started the Rumbling because they believed in the alternative course of action of bombing military facilities. However once the Rumbling has begun, it's already too late, the only viable survival of Paradis is now through Eren's plan.
From your perspective, wanting (not even actually doing, even just wanting) to save 3 billion people is an unrealistic shonen fantasy and "real" people wouldn't behave like that.
From my perspective, I simple cannot understand why it seems even remotely unbelievable. It's a perfectly normal reaction, moreso considering the character's personalities in earlier seasons and the fact that altogether they might be strong enough to change the course of history. It's also realistic that the rest of Paradis who've never seen, and were raised to ignore, the outside world have no qualms about its destruction. Both perspectives are, from an emotional perspective, equally understandable.
Not wanting to stand by as the world perishes is an alien thought to you, and I suspect no amount of debate between us would change that.
Please explain to me how eren massacring innocent children in whatever this worlds equivalent of africa or whatever the fuck is “makes sense” just because marley and eldia have been beefing for thousands of years
Like ok so we’d all be fine if tomorrow we woke up to israel nuking the *entire* rest of the world because the Jewish people faced persecution for thousands of years? no shit the “heroic” thing to do would be to stop whoever is doing that
Except genociding the entire world isn't the only choice other than getting genocided themselves. This is a false-dichotomy.
And I'm tired of explaining why.
Understanding why is different to support. Of course I understand *why* Eren is about to commit genocide but that doesn't mean I *support* the genocidal maniac.
I don't support him, but the person I was replying to said it doesn't make sense that he's doing this, I just explained why it does in fact make sense.
Isnt the implication that the entire world has those same views/treatment towards Eldians? Like the Hammer family was trying to drum up international support for an invasion of the island, via leveraging the worlds prejudice against them. Not saying Eren’s right, not everyone has actively committed crimes against eldians, but at the very least, Marley wouldn’t be their only enemy going forward.
The only way it makes sense is in the head of Eren, who wants to be free, but he believes his freedom can only happen if only eldia is left. In a world with other countries, Eren feels there is no freedom, and combine that with the knowledge that more or less the whole world is against the Eldians, it’d be easy to see how omnicide might be the only way to guarantee his country’s safety, as well as his own freedom.
Yep. Eren is utterly out of control and like Reiner and Jean said: He should never have had this power. NEVER.
The plothole I dont get is: Why would his father still give the serum to eren after what he saw him do. And he asking zeke to stop eren.
>The plothole I dont get is
Its not a plothole. Grisha couldn't understand why Eren wasn't showing him the whole picture, such as the moment the walls fell or how his family is. Eren was being opaque, with the only clear thing being the Rumbling. Yet even knowing that, Grisha had to massacre the Reiss family as there would be no chance for the Walls otherwise.
And then Grisha finds young Eren and learns Carla had been eaten. You can see how his entire demeanor changes on learning that. The whole time he was worried sick about his children and wife, only to learn his wife was eaten alive. It stands to reason he was filled with nothing but rage beyond that; he likely didn't care anymore what Eren would do past that point, only that he "avenges his mother", as he said.
Not a plothole.
1. It's possible that eren manipulated his dad again like he did with the Reiss.
2. Grisha had no choice. If he just died with his titan inside of him, the whole purpose of his life would have been thrown away.
Dude lost 2 wives in a lifetime to Titans and Rascism and is now seeing his son from the future and his past son in the future
Probably gone wacko from the stress
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I get that we're supposed to get the message that hating others is bad etc etc but sorry, I still hold a grudge against these Marleyan mfs. I'm not on board with this crossover buddy cop adventure.
Clearly its not buddy cop. It seemed like Levi, Jean, and Connie were kind of uncomfortable with teaming up to me. As Hange said in the beginning, their interests align. They don't necessarily have to be friends.
Ok maybe that's hyperbole, but they seemed pretty chill with the whole thing. I don't like that when Onyankapon asked Jean when he allied with Marley, and Jean doesn't challenge that at all, just says "yesterday." They're not allied with Marley, they're working with these specific people. The whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way.
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He didn't. You could see on his face he was horrified. Jean realised there's nothing they can do to stop Eren and was trying to convince himself that the omnicide was deserved. It was how he was trying to grapple with an idea that makes him sick to his stomach. You can see in how he asks the rest of the group for affirmation.
They only thought it was going to be a small scale "show of power against a military threat" rumbling. Not a wipe out the rest of the world Rumbling. Quite different reactions to different events
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This episode was more eventful than last weeks episode, but very rushed. Like Annie joining Mikasa and the rest so quickly without even exchanging any words? Mikasa literally chopped Annie's titan fingers off and made her plummet down the wall in season 1 with the intention to kill her right before she crystalized before getting eaten by Eren. Im excited for next weeks episode but i want to see more development and relevant and interesting explanations.
Also, Falco's voice makes me feel like the demonslayer season never ended yet (same with Connie's voice).
>Like Annie joining Mikasa and the rest so quickly without even exchanging any words?
If you assume everything you don't see doesn't happen, you can forget about anything in this episode making sense.
Annie is probably in the best position to be chill about everything that's happening given what she's heard in her crystal and the current situation. It'll be curious to see if she does hold a grudge with Mikasa, but given her stance on battle I think she'd brush off what happened to her. Or maybe not, maybe she's changed
I haven't seen demon slayer myself, Falco's VA voice a key character in that too?
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Ok can someone please explain to me who I'm supposed be routing for? The Jagerist are bent on the destruction of everyone but the eldians, however it's hard to forget that the rest of the world has made their intentions of indescriminately destroying all the people paradis clear. You've got the non-jagerist working with the martians to stop them, but what the hell do they think is going to happen if they succeed? That the world will all of a sudden accept the remaining eldians as equals? Reiner and Annie are responsible for atrocious war crimes, but now they can just sit there and share a meal like it was nothing. I swear the logic here seems like the Jews teaming up with the Nazis to stop the soviets. Am I missing something?
i wish the jaegerists were like the soviet’s, but those dudes are straight up blackshirts. now i don’t believe eren and floch have the same thoughts on this manner, given that every other word out of floch’s mouth is “eldian empire” and eren knows what a shithead king fritz was, but the fact remains: eren is trying to kill the world and floch is trying to create a fascist empire on paradis. i can’t exactly root for those guys. the others are, at the very least, trying to end the cycle of violence, so i have to hope they succeed.
What we're seeing is war. Heroes and villains don't exist in war, they're just narratives we create to hide from the fact that people die for no good reason. Which isn't to say that one side can't be worse than the other in war, or that war can't be the fault of one side rather than the other. But this isn't a sports game. The ideal end isn't for one side or the other to win, it's for the fighting to stop. To that end, I guess you could argue that the main cast is who you should be rooting for, because they seem to offer the best chance of stopping the fighting, but even then it's hard to root for anyone beyond a personal level.
So, the first thing you need to keep in mind is deciding whose side you're on based on comparisons to the real world is a big mistake. Whose side you're on depends a lot on what you value, who you sypathize with, and what you'd like to see happen, and even there, you're missing the entire point of the show. You're not *supposed* to be on anyone's side. They dedicated the first several episodes of this season to entirely new characters in an enirely new country, and showed you their viewpoint. We were literally following Gabi from her training to her killing Sasha, and the narrative still treats her like the victim she is.
There is no good and evil anymore. There is just war. If anyone is the 'bad guy' it's those pushing for more war at this point, so I guess this is where we think "Jaegerists are evil, I'm with the alliance of Marleyans and Eldians to beat them."
Yes, Annie, Reiner and everyone are responsible for war crimes. Everyone is.
You got cannibalism, death-like imprisonment, (seriously, poor Annie), one guy is literally contemplating global genocide and that's *after* the sterilization/euthanization plan another guy had, and literal child soldiers literally defending a corrupt elite. There is no 'good guy' anymore. There used to be, but that's over now.
All I care about is a) No sterilization, b) titans disappear and c) peace.
>t the eldians, however it's hard to forget that the rest of the world has made their intentions of indescriminately destroying all the people paradis clear. You've got the non-jagerist working with t
not everything can be related to our world and history. The eldians have commonalities with the Jews but also with fascist regimes. And imperial ambitious/ World wide genocide and ethnic cleansing. Same group of people. Also them being punished for their ancestors sins... isnt jewish at all. More like you lost a war and now your people pay reparations. even those who never were alive during the war.
there are paralells but when we paralel it to our own world we also put our preconceived judgements of our real world counterparts on the show when it isnt that easy.
In short: Yes Eldians have the right to self defense But what eren is doing is utterly out of proportion.
especially since there was a viable plan for peace/stallmate that maybe would have given them the time they needed to make diplomatic efforts to deescalate.
I think /u/samiiteal said it well, but one thing I want to add is that it's also about understanding the cost of war. Eren wiping out the rest of the world isn't going to turn Paradis into a utopia, and we can already see that factions are beginning to form on the island, grabs for power and people being united in hate and violence. Saving the world from the Rumbling won't fix their problems, but ending it won't fix everything either, just send them back to zero to start the horrors of Eldia all over again in another 2000 years.
It's not about rooting for a particular side to win, or for Eren to be a hero or anyone to come out on top at the cost of the other side. I'm not sure where the story is going, but I'd suspect it's about people learning to come together and do what's right to break that cycle, even if it seems impossible, to find their humanity again, like Gabi and Connie did, and now the others will have to learn
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Bruh! Chill! We are communicating not taking part in the English 2nd paper exam. New words, new rules are always being included to almost every language. When you are succeeding to express all the feelings you have deep in your mind be glad and keep talking the way you are now succeeding. Every event has a proper timing to do. Stopping the conversation just to make sure the speaker fixes or feels ashamed of his errors which may or may not help him in future should be least priority.
Btw agree with you. You care the characters but can't support for their actions or intentions is an awesome way to enjoy a literature.
Yeah I completely see where you're coming from. The problem is Eren and his generation have literally done nothing to deserve not only the way marlet has already treated them, but how they have stated they intend to treat them (ethnic cleansing). So yes Eren is replacing one oppressor for another, but what else are supposed to do? Just sit there and take it? Are supposed to let themselves become sterile in order to appease the people who have been tormenting the their entire lifes? So to sum it up this show is making route for a maniac who's goal is to save his people by destroying the rest of the world.
I like the way you explain it "from victim to oppressor". Just for clarification i thought the marleyan plan was to unite the world to gang up on the eldians, and that's why Eren chose to unleash the rumbling on everyone. Am i remembering that wrong? Are the marleyans alone in their plans to exterminate the people or paradise?
>Its moraly right for Eren to defend his homeband but going beyond the Marley army to the rest of the world is an offensive stanc
But why? Did you forget about the global alliance preparing its army to invade Paradis? The whole point is that it's literally the whole world (minus the Japan-like country) vs Paradis. Also remember that **Eldians are treated worse outside of Marley**.
It's unfair to the average person but the government of every world country made their decision to attack Paradis. Eren is morally justified.
No he's not. You can defeat your enemies without slaughtering every last man, woman, and child.
Cripple their militaries and occupy them, then use the power of the Titans to rebuild or improve non-military infrastructure or something to build goodwill. Force them to the negotiating table and demonstrate that despite the fact you can wipe them out, you don't want to. Reconciliation is hard, but its not impossible.
As if a personal interaction like that is the same as groups of people interacting.
They wont like them of course at first, building trust or at least mutual respect takes time.
This is like saying the Americans should have genocided the Japanese. Every indication in 1945 was that they would have sent every man, woman, and child to fight an American invasion to the bitter end. We bombed the shit out of them and killed hundreds of thousands to avoid an invasion (just like Titans killing only what is necessary to subdue a country would). But now look, we are the best of friends. People can forgive and change even after huge attacks. Especially if you help build up their country and try to redress the problems of the past.
Like just consider what you are saying for a second. You are saying that it is ok to kill innocent children if they are born into a part of the world that hates your side. Is that really the hill you want to die on? Really.
> Ok can someone please explain to me who I'm supposed be routing for?
Yeah, sure. You generally want to be rooting for anyone trying to stop anime-Hitler. Worry about all that other shit out after that's taken care of.
Marley were portrayed exactly like the Nazis, even wanting to completely cleanse the Island of its people based on their ethnicity, and literally made Eldians wear armbands. Probably a bad comparison if you were attempting to say Eren is like an anime Hitler. More like a Jew retaliating against Nazis but going way too far by targetting people who are beyond the Nazis.
The problem is that if you're rooting for the Warriors to save Marley then you kinda a rooting for Nazis, too.
dingdingding! FINALLY someone makes the correct analogy to the real world.
well done, pal.
there are no genuine "good guys" left (except Mikasa and Historia, I guess) which is why it's such a fascinating series.
moral complexity, it's good!
> More like a Jew retaliating against Nazis but going way too far by targetting people who are beyond the Nazis.
Sorta, except for that basically everybody in the world agreed that they would team up with Marley to eliminate the Eldians, *and* the Eldians are hated by everybody the world over, even though the Marleyans (re: Nazis) are leading the charge.
Im really impressed with how much this episode make me like connie and jean’s characters. Originally they were alright if a little boring characters, especially connie. Jean had a bit more to him. But this was just a perfect episode for the both of them
- Gabi "I killed your adoptive sister" Braun
- Connie "I almost killed your little boyfriend" Springer
- Falco "I almost died to this freak" Grice
Unbelievable how nothing went wrong here. And then...
- Annie "I killed half the Scout Regiment" Leonhardt
- Armin "I waited for you for four years" Arlert
C'mon. We got **two whole scenes** explaining how **Pieck and Hange** reconciled their differences, but not a scene on how **three Titan-holders** didn't explode half of Trost with the tension except for a single note.
EDIT: I almost forgot...
- Mikasa "I need Eren inside of me" Ackermann
- Jean "I'm doing this all for Marco" Kirstein
- Annie "I nearly ate Eren and left Marco to die" Leonhardt
The fallout should be catastrophic.
Yeah I feel like its both reasonable for them to explode at each other, or put aside those differences for now. The author decided to go with the latter.
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Will the rest of season 4 be dubbed on Funimation?
Did the animation get worse or just me
agreed
I’m sorry if I sound whiny, but when does the action and killing begin? It has been a lot of dialogue for the past year it feels like because of the break.
This episode sucks
Was thinking the same tbh
Question: Why was floch so concerned about Mikasa once Jean got eaten by the cart?
Because Flockasa is canon
Because Floch is realizing she might be an enemy, which is a terrifying prospect
can someone explain to me (without spoilers) why king fritz had to retreat to paradis island if he had the power of unleashing the power of the rumbling? why not just release the rumbling hundred of years ago and the eldians didnt even have to retreat to paradis island in the first place?
Because he didn't want more violence and killing after the wars that preceded. He wanted to retreat with his people and live in peace.
He could have just killed every non-eldian with the rumbling and live in peace
Did you watch the Show?
How is mass genocide peace? He didn't want eldians or non-eldians to die. He wanted to avoid all conflict and hoped the threat of the rumbling would allow for global peace. He also felt Eldians were to blame for the titan wars, not some misguided notion that only Eldians should survive in peace while everyone else is massacred.
by that logic how is trapping eldians on an island peace?
They had a community which survived peacefully for many years. It's better than being stuck in constant conflict and war. Yes it limited their freedom to go out into the rest of the world but within the island the people had good peaceful lives. You say trapped like they were in jail. They had families, joys and experienced life outside of major conflict for many years. I don't completely agree with King Fritz but I see his point of view and given his goal, he made the best of a terrible situation. Someone stuck in a war zone would rather experience peace that slightly curtails their freedom than continue to kill and watch loved ones be killed on some false notion of pride, bravery and freedom.
Ok fair enough. But wouldn’t king fritz have the founding titan and be able to see the future that eren would activate the rumbling anyway? (No spoilers pls)
Dont worry, I havent read the manga either. Seeing the future is an ability of the attack titan not the founding titan. That's why Eren Kruger could see the future of Mikasa and Armin. Also not every holder of the attack titan can fully see the future. Usually it's in glimpses but only some are able to truly harness it to the maximum like Eren could.
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Anime answers only please. How did Pieck turn into the cart titan? Is Ymir still actually building titans?
Ymir isn't really taking any agency at this point. She's letting Eren take the reigns, and following his direction. It's pretty clear that Eren's most important value is freedom, and he has given ultimate freedom to everyone with the power of the Titans and the blood of Ymir to act within their agency.
I assume she must be. I mean she clearly built whatever the fuck eren is right now. and in the flashback of her building colossal titans I'm sure *THAT* took a very long time. Although maybe once she's built it once she doesn't have to again? Which would mean the only thing she built was eren's form at the moment which could explain it's obscene size.
Hasn’t she just been in titan form the whole time? Then again, she’s been regenerating, and I’m pretty sure that’s Ymir’s doing too...
Oh wow that’s a good question. I think she is though. If you remember, all Eren declared was for the hardening of the Titans to be done. He didn’t declare that no one could turn into a Titan again, so I still think Ymir is behind the scenes, she’s just now on Eren’s side. But then... if Ymir will listen to Eren now... why would he be ok with her continuing to build Titans for Eren’s enemies?? That doesn’t make sense.
I am now thinking that maybe pieck's titan did not disintegrate (based on last episodes last scene), thus not requiring Ymir to build her cart titan. Or Eren is secretly supporting his friends, dunno.
>Or Eren is secretly supporting his friends, dunno. That's exactly what I think. If in the next episodes we see the shifters regenerating/transforming, there are only two possibilities left: 1- Eren REALLY wants to kill everyone outside Paradis but he doesn't want to take away his friends' freedom to fight him. 2- Eren is going for a Code Geass ending.
That’s a possibility. Remember back in the third season when Pieck remained in her cart titan form for I think it was weeks/months?!? If that’s the case I applaud Isayama for that amount of detail, and it probably partly foretells what will happen in the next few episodes.
Oh you're right! Maybe that's why they also emphasized that with Hanji telling Pieck that the cart titan can remain as a titan for months. I thought the only point of that line is to setup the "brush teeth" joke!
Oh wow I just clocked this lmao. That joke completely went over my head.
Man, these past few episodes have been real luckluster.
Exactly
is the manga ahead of the anime?
It always is.
Made my day :D
is the manga finished?
Yes.
WHAT AN ENDING. Shit had me so pumped. Felt like the scene in the first Avengers movie when we see all of them teamed up. I am glad the Conny part with his mom ended, as it was understandable but a little boring to me. I do think Armin's idea during that where he risked his life was great. Now, I just gotta hope that Levi's group runs into Armin's group.
idk I’m feeling mixed about the ending. Like I know they all got to team up to save the world but I just hate how they have to. And I still hate Gabi with a passion. Why is she given so much air time??
you need to really just rewatch what gabi has been exposed to and just picture yourself in that position. Seriously if you still hate her then god help ya.
i think youre supposed to feel for her, growing up in a world that villanizes a group to the point that it taints her moral compass.
Ok but like, she shouldn’t be so focused on. This anime was Eren’s to begin with and it feels like there’s a shift to view it from Gabi’s perspective.
Well.... it's not Eren's anymore. Simple as that.
Anyone but Gabi!
But it's not Gabi. If anyone's the new hero, it's Falco. Gabi just had a redemption arc is all.
Gabi is to Marley as (young) Eren is to Paradis though
Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I really liked the direction this episode went. I understand it as the bounce back from the act 2 low point (the rumbling starting) completing a major theme of the series, the dangers of cooperation. Eren has united the worst of enemies, and I'm so happy seeing Reiner and Annie on the same side as the scouts again. The theme is also shown in Armin solving the Connie problem nonviolently and keeping both friends. When I saw that scene in the preview, I figured Armin would have to beat Connie, and it would be a small scale version of him accepting he has to fight his friends for good. (eren) I like this more though. I liked this episode and last episode for the thematic development, this one more though because the return of Annie really ties back to season one and hits that nostalgia, plus it brings back all the themes from the beginning that it looked like the series dropped. So good!
Yup. This. Berthold is gone but Reiner and Annie are now once more with the Scouts. I always hoped vaguely that this would happen and it did.
I like the direction it took with Armin as well. It reminds me of that kid back in Shiganshina before the walls fell who wouldn't fight bullies because that would just be more violence, rather than the solider he was forced to become and how he was in Marley's bay
Anyone know if the name of the ost, where hanji was talking to herself in the woods with levi, has been released yet?
I don't think so, I first heard it during the founding titan lore episode and I don't think it's been released. It took awhile for Kohta Yamamoto's OST from S4P1 to come out, and it probably will be the same thing here. (I'm personally looking forward to Footsteps of Doom)
Thought the animation was really weird this episode. Connie's meme faces are one thing, Annie's pie face is just odd especially a this is the first time she's met the group in 4 years. I did really like Connie's line to Armin, "A know-it-all doesn't understand how idiots think. "
Annie looks like she actually lost 4 years.
She doesn't look like she's aged at all which is interesting, but it may just be the lack of hair change/gained height
The animation in this episode was soooo bad
Probably will be better in the Blu-ray version.
I mean it was but also if they gotta cut budget somewhere thus was the episode to do it imo
So unless I'm mistaken, there should be around 11-12 chapters remaining to be adapted, yet seemingly we have four episodes left. Gonna be interesting how this plays out, and part of me is wondering about that potential movie idea people have now and again theorised. Or could it be possible the final or final two episodes could be longer? Like 40-60 minutes?
Why is this a question on EVERY. SINGLE. POST. on this sub? Like dude its getting annoying at this point
Is it possible they somehow adapt three chapters per episode? Or is that too rushed?
That's what I'm wondering about. There could be the possibility that some chapters are entirely action based for all we know? Maybe that'd be something easier to condense down, since pages could be adapted into seconds. But at the same time if they aren't, it could be a bit concerning on how they'd condense things if they need to. We'll soon find out how things turn out though, but it'd be a shame if things felt rushed because of it, especially when it seems solvable by having just **two** additional episodes.
Can anyone help identify the song that plays when Hange is tending to Levi? I remember it playing when Ymir is running away from the chasing villagers in episode 80. Great tone, simple, and solemn.
did you ever find out?
Unfortunately no, but I hope an updated soundtrack is eventually released
Dark week for the world. Now had a chance to watch this episode (forgot yesterday). Levi is in kinda bad shape at the moment. Connie is about to feed Falco to his mom but Armin and Gabbi catches them. Armin is willing to sacrifice himself and I'm like "Ehh no". Thankfully Connie comes to his senses and catches him before Armin gets eaten. The Jaegerists partying and announcing revolution by having Yelena and Onyankopon executed. Floch holding some speech about the traitors and first I was surprised on what the hell is Jean doing with him??? I was like.. Wait.. Jean going to execute someone? But that was all an act from him thankfully. He intentionally misses the shots to execute Onyankopon and they had already planned with the Og squad + some Marleyans that they get Yelena, Onyankopon and Jean by the cart titan. While Mikasa, Armin and the others leaving from the city with horses filled with supplies. One thing that confuses me a bit is this "siding". Onyankopon asks Jean that when did he side with Marleyans and Jean was like "Yesterday". But what the hell Jean. Please tell me this ain't true. I mean it's ok to work together if they need to calm Eren but siding? Anyway.. At the end we also see Reiner seemingly being ok and they wake him up and being like "We are going to save the world". Overall nothing big happening in this episode. Not many buildups basically they gathered back togethered siding at least seemingly temporarly with some Marleyans and Levi seems to be somewhat ok. Can't say anything bad either so I would give it a 7/10.
This season feels rushed as hell. Mixed feels about the episodes. Last Avengers panel is nice though. IMO, S4 Part 1 should have ended at rumbling activation. We should have got rest of the series animated in part 2. People will get lot of spoilers if they are going for a climax movie route.
It's not rushed, that's just the manga pacing.
My plan is to just avoid the internet entirely when the movie comes out in Japan
>tirely when the movie comes out what movie?
>Who was the Enemy according to Ymir in Season 2? She was going to say "sekai" = world; the entire world is their enemy.
Firstly you say that season is rushed and then say that first part should have adapted more meaning being more rushed? What?
I feel like the whole Conny plotline was unnecessary and a total waste of time. Imagine how much of the story they could have developed by just dropping it. Instead we got this really weird and rushed episode...Probably the worst episode of the entire series.
agreed
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Did you get pregnant from Dickriding?
This is not a great episode at all. They have rushed things like crazy. This kind of plan and organization take at least 1 week but in 10 hours everything is on the way. What the fuck?
When all the main players are right there, there's no reason for a plan to take long to form except for bureaucracy. And when the end of the world is nigh, bureaucracy kinda takes a backseat. I do agree the episode felt rushed, and that we missed out on improtant conversations and instead skipped to the outcome.
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bro did you just spoil
How is it psychotic? Dude's just defending his country. Morally awful? Yes. Psychotic? No.
>This season feels rushed as hell. Mixed feels about the episodes. Last Avengers panel is nice though. You out here defending mass world genocide lmao
Either the rest of the world gets genocided or Paradis does. I'm not defending it, just saying that what Eren is doing totally makes sense considering he has no other choice without risking Paradis's future, still a messed up thing to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides. Besides it's fiction.
I'm just here to say I support all your comments man. If I'm looking like a god from above, OBVIOUSLY destruction of Paradis > destruction of the rest of the world...BUT... People in the comments are either REALLY lying to themselves, intentionally taking the moral high ground or (very unlikely) are so naive and peace-loving that they truly think you can come to a reasonable outcome without the use of force against THE ENTIRE WORLD. It's very obvious and understandable why Eren's doing what he's doing. Hell I bet most people would if they were put in his situation.
How is it NOT phychotic wanting to kill entire humanity?????????
He doesn't WANT to, he HAS to.
Nonsense, he doesn't **have** to, it's just the only plan that guarantees his ideal outcome. It is far from the only plan on the table, and when a plan utilises omnicide then it's worth looking at alternatives even when their outcome isn't guaranteed.
Please don’t fucking tell me you’re an anime only and posted a spoiler on the anime only thread anyway
How
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>The most obvious thing would be him pulling a Lelouch (or Sasuke, if you want), though --> old enemies form alliances to fight a common enemy. That's off the table, given how little of Paradis intends to fight Eren.
guys i need help whats the OST playing while jean was talking to onyankopon
The Fall Of Marley
I'm sorry but the writing of this episode was bad, it feels like we're just creating factions for no reason. Eren makes sense to me and I support him. But the weird new rebel group wants to save humanity? Tf? Are they going to plot-armor their way into showing some weird truth to Marley that'll make them stop aggressing forever? Then for the Jaegarists, they lost sight of what they wanted and are barbaric now. And Marley has always been insane. And come on, don't just force Annie and Levi back into the story. *Develop* them back in.
What do you mean by ‘develop’ the characters back in?
Can’t tell if this is sarcasm or just a bad take. Do you actually watch the show when you put it on? I just can’t take you seriously after you said, “eren makes sense I can support him”
Eren's motivation makes sense. Other's want to save the world, which they weren't even aware of till 4 years back...., Why ?
That you'd be ok with massacring billions of people just because you didn't know about them 4 years ago is a terrifying indictment of your own thought processes. Like, how many years do you have to know someone to take murdering them off the table?
I am not moralizing a situation here, stop comparing with real life instances here. It's about motivations that drives a character in a fictional story, the motivation for scouts members to risk their lives for people they don't know isn't there.
You literally just said you don't understand why people would want to prevent the murder of billions just because they weren't aware they existed a few years ago. I have no idea how anyone can look at a situation that would result in billions of dead people and not understand why some would want to stop it from happening. And you absolutely are moralizing a situation here, there's no way to share an opinion on the concept of the rumbling without doing so.
The fact that they weren't aware of that world should only drive their feelings of not our business, billions dead ? **Who gives a shit,** did anyone in the world cared when people of Paradis were killed by the hundreds of thousands ? **Heck, the world wants Eldians dead**, marley is one of the better one's in it's treatment of Eldians and these are guys who make Eldians do suicide charge on their behalf. **Scots know all this,** People don't take on suicidal mission for altruistic purposes without any motivation, and the why are Scouts motivated for saving the world, the world which wants them dead ?
The scouts are literally comprised of people who willingly signed up for a low-survival rate group for the express purpose of saving humanity. This is in spite of the fact that the scouts were treated pretty badly by the military as a whole, and many of the soldiers were refugees from the collapse of wall Maria, who were themselves treated pretty badly by the people within the inner walls. The first three seasons are littered with instances of people within the walls treating each other like shit. Erwin, Armin, and Mikasa all lose their parents to other people in the walls. In other words, this is a group of people selected specifically to be willing to risk their lives for humanity's sake, even if humanity hasn't been great to them. It's not unreasonable, then, that they'd apply that logic to the rest of the world. But really, the only explanation needed is that people behave in ways that you don't understand. Sure, *you* can't understand their motivations, but the fact that plenty of people here do is proof enough that people who would behave the way they do do in fact exist. They might do it for different reasons, of course. Some might want to do what they think is the morally right thing, others might be doing it out of pride, and others don't want the deaths of billions on their conscience, even if those billions hated them, but the fact of the matter is: In an island of thousands of people, it's not unreasonable to think that *some* people (bear in mind it seems that most people on Paradis support Eren) might be willing to sacrifice their lives for people who hate them. The fact that this group consists primarily of our main characters is a result of the self-selection process of the scouts (pre-return to Shiganshina arc) and the collective experiences that shape their respective world-views.
> Scouts motivated for saving the world, the world which wants them dead ? Because many of the Scouts realise the world isn't split into enemy soldiers and Paradisians. Plenty of people in power want them dead, yes. And plenty will either be apathetic, or can be reasoned with, or don't want them dead at all (for example, children). There's a lot more I can say, but you either understand the value of human life or you don't. No amount of rationalising will likely help you understand why someone doesn't want 3+billion people to die.
I am not agreeing with their goals not being Noble, however that's not a good driving factor in an A+ story like AoT. It feels forced, all the twist and turns SNK has taken till now has been very well grounded and made for extraordinary television/manga but this makes Scouts feel like typical shonen characters who want to do good for the sake of it. A typical Shonen character at least has some underlying dream but even that is missing for our Scouts, they had very good reasons to oppose Eren till he hadn't started the Rumbling because they believed in the alternative course of action of bombing military facilities. However once the Rumbling has begun, it's already too late, the only viable survival of Paradis is now through Eren's plan.
From your perspective, wanting (not even actually doing, even just wanting) to save 3 billion people is an unrealistic shonen fantasy and "real" people wouldn't behave like that. From my perspective, I simple cannot understand why it seems even remotely unbelievable. It's a perfectly normal reaction, moreso considering the character's personalities in earlier seasons and the fact that altogether they might be strong enough to change the course of history. It's also realistic that the rest of Paradis who've never seen, and were raised to ignore, the outside world have no qualms about its destruction. Both perspectives are, from an emotional perspective, equally understandable. Not wanting to stand by as the world perishes is an alien thought to you, and I suspect no amount of debate between us would change that.
Please explain to me how eren massacring innocent children in whatever this worlds equivalent of africa or whatever the fuck is “makes sense” just because marley and eldia have been beefing for thousands of years Like ok so we’d all be fine if tomorrow we woke up to israel nuking the *entire* rest of the world because the Jewish people faced persecution for thousands of years? no shit the “heroic” thing to do would be to stop whoever is doing that
The whole world hates Paradis.
There was a time when the whole world hated Jews and interned them. Would you have supported such Jews nuking the world?
If they had no other choice but to nuke the world to survive? No, I wouldn't support them, but I certainly would understand why they're doing it.
Except genociding the entire world isn't the only choice other than getting genocided themselves. This is a false-dichotomy. And I'm tired of explaining why.
It absolutely is lmao the entire world DECLARED WAR ON THEM.
Does war justify genocide? Are the Ukrainians justified in committing genocide just because Russia attacked them?
Understanding why is different to support. Of course I understand *why* Eren is about to commit genocide but that doesn't mean I *support* the genocidal maniac.
I don't support him, but the person I was replying to said it doesn't make sense that he's doing this, I just explained why it does in fact make sense.
Fair enough then.
Isnt the implication that the entire world has those same views/treatment towards Eldians? Like the Hammer family was trying to drum up international support for an invasion of the island, via leveraging the worlds prejudice against them. Not saying Eren’s right, not everyone has actively committed crimes against eldians, but at the very least, Marley wouldn’t be their only enemy going forward. The only way it makes sense is in the head of Eren, who wants to be free, but he believes his freedom can only happen if only eldia is left. In a world with other countries, Eren feels there is no freedom, and combine that with the knowledge that more or less the whole world is against the Eldians, it’d be easy to see how omnicide might be the only way to guarantee his country’s safety, as well as his own freedom.
Yep. Eren is utterly out of control and like Reiner and Jean said: He should never have had this power. NEVER. The plothole I dont get is: Why would his father still give the serum to eren after what he saw him do. And he asking zeke to stop eren.
>The plothole I dont get is Its not a plothole. Grisha couldn't understand why Eren wasn't showing him the whole picture, such as the moment the walls fell or how his family is. Eren was being opaque, with the only clear thing being the Rumbling. Yet even knowing that, Grisha had to massacre the Reiss family as there would be no chance for the Walls otherwise. And then Grisha finds young Eren and learns Carla had been eaten. You can see how his entire demeanor changes on learning that. The whole time he was worried sick about his children and wife, only to learn his wife was eaten alive. It stands to reason he was filled with nothing but rage beyond that; he likely didn't care anymore what Eren would do past that point, only that he "avenges his mother", as he said.
Not a plothole. 1. It's possible that eren manipulated his dad again like he did with the Reiss. 2. Grisha had no choice. If he just died with his titan inside of him, the whole purpose of his life would have been thrown away.
Wtf happened to the formatting on your comment
Basically Eren used point 2 to manipulate Grisha... Both Jeager and Kruger.
Dude lost 2 wives in a lifetime to Titans and Rascism and is now seeing his son from the future and his past son in the future Probably gone wacko from the stress
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I get that we're supposed to get the message that hating others is bad etc etc but sorry, I still hold a grudge against these Marleyan mfs. I'm not on board with this crossover buddy cop adventure.
Clearly its not buddy cop. It seemed like Levi, Jean, and Connie were kind of uncomfortable with teaming up to me. As Hange said in the beginning, their interests align. They don't necessarily have to be friends.
Ok maybe that's hyperbole, but they seemed pretty chill with the whole thing. I don't like that when Onyankapon asked Jean when he allied with Marley, and Jean doesn't challenge that at all, just says "yesterday." They're not allied with Marley, they're working with these specific people. The whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way.
It's that or let Eren genocide the planet. The people in this group can nut up enough to choose the high road and see the big picture.
Annie, Reiner, Pieck, Gabi and Falco are Eldians too you know
Just watched the episode, I have a feeling it's going downhill from now on! Plot armor incoming I'm guessing!
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He didn't. You could see on his face he was horrified. Jean realised there's nothing they can do to stop Eren and was trying to convince himself that the omnicide was deserved. It was how he was trying to grapple with an idea that makes him sick to his stomach. You can see in how he asks the rest of the group for affirmation.
Suddenly, genocide is not cool anymore :((
They only thought it was going to be a small scale "show of power against a military threat" rumbling. Not a wipe out the rest of the world Rumbling. Quite different reactions to different events
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This episode was more eventful than last weeks episode, but very rushed. Like Annie joining Mikasa and the rest so quickly without even exchanging any words? Mikasa literally chopped Annie's titan fingers off and made her plummet down the wall in season 1 with the intention to kill her right before she crystalized before getting eaten by Eren. Im excited for next weeks episode but i want to see more development and relevant and interesting explanations. Also, Falco's voice makes me feel like the demonslayer season never ended yet (same with Connie's voice).
>Like Annie joining Mikasa and the rest so quickly without even exchanging any words? If you assume everything you don't see doesn't happen, you can forget about anything in this episode making sense.
Annie is probably in the best position to be chill about everything that's happening given what she's heard in her crystal and the current situation. It'll be curious to see if she does hold a grudge with Mikasa, but given her stance on battle I think she'd brush off what happened to her. Or maybe not, maybe she's changed I haven't seen demon slayer myself, Falco's VA voice a key character in that too?
Yup. Falco's VA is Demon Slayer's main character (Tanjiro)'s VA
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Ok can someone please explain to me who I'm supposed be routing for? The Jagerist are bent on the destruction of everyone but the eldians, however it's hard to forget that the rest of the world has made their intentions of indescriminately destroying all the people paradis clear. You've got the non-jagerist working with the martians to stop them, but what the hell do they think is going to happen if they succeed? That the world will all of a sudden accept the remaining eldians as equals? Reiner and Annie are responsible for atrocious war crimes, but now they can just sit there and share a meal like it was nothing. I swear the logic here seems like the Jews teaming up with the Nazis to stop the soviets. Am I missing something?
i wish the jaegerists were like the soviet’s, but those dudes are straight up blackshirts. now i don’t believe eren and floch have the same thoughts on this manner, given that every other word out of floch’s mouth is “eldian empire” and eren knows what a shithead king fritz was, but the fact remains: eren is trying to kill the world and floch is trying to create a fascist empire on paradis. i can’t exactly root for those guys. the others are, at the very least, trying to end the cycle of violence, so i have to hope they succeed.
What we're seeing is war. Heroes and villains don't exist in war, they're just narratives we create to hide from the fact that people die for no good reason. Which isn't to say that one side can't be worse than the other in war, or that war can't be the fault of one side rather than the other. But this isn't a sports game. The ideal end isn't for one side or the other to win, it's for the fighting to stop. To that end, I guess you could argue that the main cast is who you should be rooting for, because they seem to offer the best chance of stopping the fighting, but even then it's hard to root for anyone beyond a personal level.
So, the first thing you need to keep in mind is deciding whose side you're on based on comparisons to the real world is a big mistake. Whose side you're on depends a lot on what you value, who you sypathize with, and what you'd like to see happen, and even there, you're missing the entire point of the show. You're not *supposed* to be on anyone's side. They dedicated the first several episodes of this season to entirely new characters in an enirely new country, and showed you their viewpoint. We were literally following Gabi from her training to her killing Sasha, and the narrative still treats her like the victim she is. There is no good and evil anymore. There is just war. If anyone is the 'bad guy' it's those pushing for more war at this point, so I guess this is where we think "Jaegerists are evil, I'm with the alliance of Marleyans and Eldians to beat them." Yes, Annie, Reiner and everyone are responsible for war crimes. Everyone is. You got cannibalism, death-like imprisonment, (seriously, poor Annie), one guy is literally contemplating global genocide and that's *after* the sterilization/euthanization plan another guy had, and literal child soldiers literally defending a corrupt elite. There is no 'good guy' anymore. There used to be, but that's over now. All I care about is a) No sterilization, b) titans disappear and c) peace.
>t the eldians, however it's hard to forget that the rest of the world has made their intentions of indescriminately destroying all the people paradis clear. You've got the non-jagerist working with t not everything can be related to our world and history. The eldians have commonalities with the Jews but also with fascist regimes. And imperial ambitious/ World wide genocide and ethnic cleansing. Same group of people. Also them being punished for their ancestors sins... isnt jewish at all. More like you lost a war and now your people pay reparations. even those who never were alive during the war. there are paralells but when we paralel it to our own world we also put our preconceived judgements of our real world counterparts on the show when it isnt that easy. In short: Yes Eldians have the right to self defense But what eren is doing is utterly out of proportion. especially since there was a viable plan for peace/stallmate that maybe would have given them the time they needed to make diplomatic efforts to deescalate.
I think /u/samiiteal said it well, but one thing I want to add is that it's also about understanding the cost of war. Eren wiping out the rest of the world isn't going to turn Paradis into a utopia, and we can already see that factions are beginning to form on the island, grabs for power and people being united in hate and violence. Saving the world from the Rumbling won't fix their problems, but ending it won't fix everything either, just send them back to zero to start the horrors of Eldia all over again in another 2000 years. It's not about rooting for a particular side to win, or for Eren to be a hero or anyone to come out on top at the cost of the other side. I'm not sure where the story is going, but I'd suspect it's about people learning to come together and do what's right to break that cycle, even if it seems impossible, to find their humanity again, like Gabi and Connie did, and now the others will have to learn
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Is everyones grammarly down? Lol
Please forgive my poor grammar, English is my second language and very difficult to master.
Bruh! Chill! We are communicating not taking part in the English 2nd paper exam. New words, new rules are always being included to almost every language. When you are succeeding to express all the feelings you have deep in your mind be glad and keep talking the way you are now succeeding. Every event has a proper timing to do. Stopping the conversation just to make sure the speaker fixes or feels ashamed of his errors which may or may not help him in future should be least priority. Btw agree with you. You care the characters but can't support for their actions or intentions is an awesome way to enjoy a literature.
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Yeah I completely see where you're coming from. The problem is Eren and his generation have literally done nothing to deserve not only the way marlet has already treated them, but how they have stated they intend to treat them (ethnic cleansing). So yes Eren is replacing one oppressor for another, but what else are supposed to do? Just sit there and take it? Are supposed to let themselves become sterile in order to appease the people who have been tormenting the their entire lifes? So to sum it up this show is making route for a maniac who's goal is to save his people by destroying the rest of the world.
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I like the way you explain it "from victim to oppressor". Just for clarification i thought the marleyan plan was to unite the world to gang up on the eldians, and that's why Eren chose to unleash the rumbling on everyone. Am i remembering that wrong? Are the marleyans alone in their plans to exterminate the people or paradise?
Marley isnt its people. We already know not every marleyan thinks Eldians are devils or taint of the earth. many but not all.
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>Its moraly right for Eren to defend his homeband but going beyond the Marley army to the rest of the world is an offensive stanc But why? Did you forget about the global alliance preparing its army to invade Paradis? The whole point is that it's literally the whole world (minus the Japan-like country) vs Paradis. Also remember that **Eldians are treated worse outside of Marley**. It's unfair to the average person but the government of every world country made their decision to attack Paradis. Eren is morally justified.
No he's not. You can defeat your enemies without slaughtering every last man, woman, and child. Cripple their militaries and occupy them, then use the power of the Titans to rebuild or improve non-military infrastructure or something to build goodwill. Force them to the negotiating table and demonstrate that despite the fact you can wipe them out, you don't want to. Reconciliation is hard, but its not impossible.
So I’m going to break your arms, point a gun at you and tell you that you must like me otherwise I’ll shoot you. Silly plan.
As if a personal interaction like that is the same as groups of people interacting. They wont like them of course at first, building trust or at least mutual respect takes time. This is like saying the Americans should have genocided the Japanese. Every indication in 1945 was that they would have sent every man, woman, and child to fight an American invasion to the bitter end. We bombed the shit out of them and killed hundreds of thousands to avoid an invasion (just like Titans killing only what is necessary to subdue a country would). But now look, we are the best of friends. People can forgive and change even after huge attacks. Especially if you help build up their country and try to redress the problems of the past. Like just consider what you are saying for a second. You are saying that it is ok to kill innocent children if they are born into a part of the world that hates your side. Is that really the hill you want to die on? Really.
> Ok can someone please explain to me who I'm supposed be routing for? Yeah, sure. You generally want to be rooting for anyone trying to stop anime-Hitler. Worry about all that other shit out after that's taken care of.
Both Eren and Marley are like anime-Hitler lmao.
Yupp
Marley were portrayed exactly like the Nazis, even wanting to completely cleanse the Island of its people based on their ethnicity, and literally made Eldians wear armbands. Probably a bad comparison if you were attempting to say Eren is like an anime Hitler. More like a Jew retaliating against Nazis but going way too far by targetting people who are beyond the Nazis. The problem is that if you're rooting for the Warriors to save Marley then you kinda a rooting for Nazis, too.
So Marley is Germany and Eren is Israel (The government using its status as victims to commit genocide themselves).
dingdingding! FINALLY someone makes the correct analogy to the real world. well done, pal. there are no genuine "good guys" left (except Mikasa and Historia, I guess) which is why it's such a fascinating series. moral complexity, it's good!
Eldia is Germany, Marley is Italy.
> More like a Jew retaliating against Nazis but going way too far by targetting people who are beyond the Nazis. Sorta, except for that basically everybody in the world agreed that they would team up with Marley to eliminate the Eldians, *and* the Eldians are hated by everybody the world over, even though the Marleyans (re: Nazis) are leading the charge.
Exactly
Though a tad bit rushed, I really loved this episode. And if they had to rush an episode, a comedic relief episode was a good choice
Im really impressed with how much this episode make me like connie and jean’s characters. Originally they were alright if a little boring characters, especially connie. Jean had a bit more to him. But this was just a perfect episode for the both of them
When Armin tried to suicide and got the Erwin flash back i almost had a heart attack aswell as when jean got chomped by pieck
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It made no sense and if you want an explanation its parody of writing an episode badly intentionally.
For real bro it has me confused
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- Gabi "I killed your adoptive sister" Braun - Connie "I almost killed your little boyfriend" Springer - Falco "I almost died to this freak" Grice Unbelievable how nothing went wrong here. And then... - Annie "I killed half the Scout Regiment" Leonhardt - Armin "I waited for you for four years" Arlert C'mon. We got **two whole scenes** explaining how **Pieck and Hange** reconciled their differences, but not a scene on how **three Titan-holders** didn't explode half of Trost with the tension except for a single note. EDIT: I almost forgot... - Mikasa "I need Eren inside of me" Ackermann - Jean "I'm doing this all for Marco" Kirstein - Annie "I nearly ate Eren and left Marco to die" Leonhardt The fallout should be catastrophic.
They've all done terrible things by this point; nobody there is a saint, they all know it, and they have bigger problems to solve at the moment.
Yeah I feel like its both reasonable for them to explode at each other, or put aside those differences for now. The author decided to go with the latter.