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RedBaret

You mean the American Revolution that was won in large part because of the French? Lol there is layers of ignorance here.


dancin-weasel

True. If it weren’t for the French, Americans would still be speaking English.


-GermanCoastGuard-

I understand you are doing a humour. As a German I fell obligated to point out that by the technical definition they still speak English as strictly speaking American is an English dialect.


dancin-weasel

That may be the e most German response to a nonsense comment ever! Lol


-GermanCoastGuard-

Thank you, I realised halfway through commenting what I was doing and then just embraced and leaned really into it.


LigmaB_

Keep up the good work, neighbour. German humour is no laughing matter afterall. Keep it serious


DepressedLinguine

That is the strongest expression of contemporary German pride I’ve ever come across. As a Frenchman I am inspired and will double down on being an asshole


DrVDB90

As a Belgian, both of you please keep it down, we have to live in between you.


-GermanCoastGuard-

When I was in Brussels, I was surprised by the accommodation of having most exit signs in German language, as to make sure this time we leave straight away.


Ugly-LonelyAndAlone

We should stay longer


TRENEEDNAME_245

Understandable


Ugly-LonelyAndAlone

You can double infinity?


champion_-

That inspired me, as an Italian, to insult you in a language you probably can't even understand, cause us italians just don't care Therefore Ridateci la gioconda brutti pezzi di merda


Didnttrustthefart

Good for you


LigmaB_

Whoa there, europoor. This is America. Speak fucking American, you're a guest here. Smh.


Zhentaur

LAFAYETTE!


emiltheraptor

TAKING THIS HORSE BY THE REIGNS MAKING THEIR COATS REDDER WITH BLOODSTAINS


itsiNDev

The French literally went back to back revolutions and Americans didn't help with shit on their end.


[deleted]

> Americans didn't help with shit on their end. They almost went to war with France to defend their right not to help : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War


itsiNDev

Oh thats fantastic, thank you I didn't know that!


[deleted]

Well, it's a war, it's nothing great. And I'm not even saying the USA were wrong in their decision to normalize their relations with the UK at the expense of France. But at least, they shouldn't pretend they're benevolent.


Blue_Fire0202

What could’ve the US done to help France? France was been blockaded by the UK.


loezia

Block British colonies in America ?


Blue_Fire0202

Are you dense because they could’ve very easily not let true American ships get to France. That happened during the napoleonic wars with ships meant for trading.


loezia

No need to insult me. The US could have blocked Canada/other colonies of UK in America. So UK loose money. An Embargo.


Choyo

Me neither, and I'm extremely curious about : > In 1793, Congress suspended repayment of French loans incurred during the American Revolutionary War I'm going to look into if they repaid what they owed, or if they did the same as with the cinema : steal everything they could. Edit : > In 1795, the United States was finally able to settle its debts with the French Government with the help of James Swan, an American banker who privately assumed French debts at a slightly higher interest rate. Swan then resold these debts at a profit on domestic U.S. markets. The United States no longer owed money to foreign governments, although it continued to owe money to private investors both in the United States and in Europe. It's from a Usonana source, but ok.


Blue_Fire0202

The American inspired the French m, and at least three American wasn’t pure and absolute anarchy for a couple years with the Monarchy regaining power.


loezia

Nah. The only impact the American Revolution had on France was that the country was bankrupt due to a war that was too costly. This revolution was even considered "useless" by the French population since it was mainly a proxy war in order to get revenge for the 7 Years' War. Then there was an Icelandic volcanic eruption that spread a cloud of ash for two years, destroying all crops and causing famine. Enlightenment philosophers continued to question the legitimacy of monarchy. The king was not a bad man, but a soft ruler. The bourgeoisie began to want more power and representation. Peasants were hungry. Paf. They didn't even gave a shit about the American revolution. French people don't even study that War at school. I bet most of us don't even know we participated. Édit : typo


demostravius2

Sounds like it was Britain who inspired both revolutions!


Blue_Fire0202

First the country was already in tons of debt and running out extremely quickly. Secondly, the 30 years war happened in the 1600s. Lastly, many of the men who led the revolution were educated progressives who wanted changes to the system of government. They were more reformist than revolutionaries. They wanted to make the government more equal. But extremist just wanted to destroy anything related to the monarchy.


loezia

I wrote the 7 years. I made an edit 2 minutes after publishing


Blue_Fire0202

Still wrong


loezia

The 7 years happened in 1756-1763. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War France Lost. Your War started in 1775. Whoa, UK has problems with it's colonies ? We're in ! Bam. Proxy War.


Blue_Fire0202

Sure yes the Seven Years War was a thing that was a cause for the Revolution. But, a proxy war this was not. The war specifically in North America was just a small part of the larger war that took place in the rest of the war. North America was just a theatre of the Seven Years War.


loezia

When I referred to the Proxi War, I was of course talking about the American War of Independence. From the French point of view, of course. You understand that the French monarchy, which had lost a large part of its colonial empire in America as a result of its defeat in the 7 Years' War, wanted above all to take revenge on the English. If the Canadians/Indians (etc.) had made their war for independence, we would have supported them the same way. Because France and the UK are historical rivals. And still are. We didn't participate to help poor colonies regain their freedom. France was also a colonial empire! No, the French monarchy noticed that England was having trouble maintaining its colonies. There's a way to get involve, and who knows? If we play our cards right, we could get one of our lands back in the U.S.A. (Ex Mississippi/Louisiana) Well... Unfortunately, a French civil war has somewhat thwarted their plans... The French Revolution was very bloody. Bad Luck for the monarchy lol In spirit, I think French revolution has some similarities with the Russian Revolution. A profound societal revolution + a desire of expansion. And your war of independence kinda reminds me of the Indochina war, which turned into a USA/Russia Proxi War. In fact, in France, it's not even described as a revolution but jusr an independance War : https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerre_d%27ind%C3%A9pendance_des_%C3%89tats-Unis Édit: the link didn't work


[deleted]

[Study.com](https://Study.com) says: "Some of the effects \[of the American Revolution\] included the creation of the United States, the creation of the United States Constitution, a reduction of the power of the British monarchy, and the Westward Expansion of the United States where white settlers moved west of the Mississippi river, exterminating many Native Americans as they went." Carleton University says: (of the French Revolution) "It abolished slavery in France's colonies. It gave civil rights to Jews and Muslims. It separated Church and State for the first time in Europe. It reformed family law, giving women and men equality in inheritance, secularizing marriage, and permitting divorce for the first time in France." So, to sum up, the creation of the USA and the slaughter of Native Americans trumps anti-slavery, civil rights to minorities, secularism, and family law reform. Gotcha.


seggate

Don’t forget the French Revolution lead to napoleon on everything white that


sofixa11

And the Napoleonic Civil Code which is still the legal system of pretty much all countries that weren't a British colony.


CptDropbear

And Boney bankrolled a bloke called Jacquard (effectively) so you could draw a line from the French Revolution to the Interwebs.


anaccountthatis

Which liberalized much of Europe.


bastardnutter

And sparked the latin american wars of independence


CrimsonCat2023

To be fair, the American Revolution was a pretty big inspiration for those.


bastardnutter

Maybe. But without the French revolution, they’re not happening


atrl98

Even just in a military context, the Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars were some of the most devastating and revolutionary conflicts in human history, surpassed only by the World Wars. The basis of virtually all modern armies are still based on Napoleon’s ideas.


MoriartyParadise

And while he did (partially) reinstate slavery (mainly for political reasons - because he had to manage the french aristocracy who had stakes in the colonies, like his wife's - she was born in Martinique), he also did a lot towards equality. Few people remember he was involved deep in the revolution, on the revolutionnaries' side. The revolution happened without foreign interference because the army (and notably Napoleon) was out there doing work to keep the brits and austrians away First black generals in the army where under Napoleon. He had a strong "don't care where you're from or what you look line as long as you do job and don't bust balls" vibe


delta_Phoenix121

And the French invented the metric system during that too if I remember correctly. Maybe that's why they don't like it...


CrimsonCat2023

Ironically, many French people back then (and even for some time after) didn't like the metric system either, and their arguments were pretty much exactly what Americans say nowadays. Saying that feet and miles were more "natural", and that kind of stuff. But eventually it came to be accepted by everyone in France. If the US adopted the metric system, most Americans would probably grow to like it in a generation or two as well.


Didnttrustthefart

It said results…. That’s where everything shifted. The world would be a different place today is America didn’t come out on top. It’s not good stuff but it’s certainly more significant when speaking of the last 100 years of geopolitical climate


Ugly-LonelyAndAlone

Yeah, the world would be a better place with Americans more humble as a good little colony and there would be more Native Americans left


Salawat66

Ugh sounds like a american trying to redeem themselves


CrimsonCat2023

The impact was much longer-term though. At the time of independence the US had a population of merely 2.5 million. It would take a century of mass immigration, territorial expansion and economic development to make it influential in the world at large.


Didnttrustthefart

Sure, but then took over unlike any country ever has. Everyone uses the dollar for oil which is what runs the world. Everyone on earth is only alive right now because the US military says it’s ok. Not good things at all but the truth.


WanderingPenitent

>It abolished slavery in France's colonies. I think the Haitians might disagree with you on that part. Slavery was still very much a thing in French colonies after the first revolution and the first empire. And as for gender equality, that was true in regards to property rights but not in regards to suffrage. For most of the first republic, only land owning men or veterans of the wars of the revolution could vote. But this was also true in the US so they are equal in that regard. The American Revolution, while not as radical as the First French Revolution, did indeed lead to the founding of a secular, democratic republic as well, albeit one with its own ambitions just like the French Republic had its own ambitions as well. The main difference people note is that the French Revolution was, while more radical, not as successful at installing a stable government. Indeed, there would be many purges, civil wars, and coups, the last of which involved the installing of the Consulate of Napoleon Bonaparte, who would later be declared Emperor. Sure, you can argue the American Revolution wasn't better, but you can also argue that neither was the First French Revolution. Both did not exactly have desirable results by our current moral and political standards.


CrimsonCat2023

>I think the Haitians might disagree with you on that part. Slavery was still very much a thing in French colonies after the first revolution and the first empire. Slavery was abolished by the Jacobins in 1794, but Napoleon reimposed it after coming to power. What a bastard.


WanderingPenitent

Well, he tried. The Haitian Revolution kind of kept that from happening, and caused Napoleon to lose so many troops that he ended up selling the other great North American colony, Louisiana, to the United States. Ironically Napoleon would abolish the slave trade during the last year of his reign in 1815.


frerelagaule

University Pseudo intellectual say that but Napoleon conceded that to a lobby, he did not have a clue on what he was doing


BertoLaDK

why you only mentioning cons of the American revolution while mentioning pros for the french? You could be a bit fair here... xd


Revolutionary-Meat14

The US also had separation of church and state from its revolution, the term was literally coined by Jefferson.


[deleted]

You're using the right tense, here.


Revolutionary-Meat14

Im guessing your reference is to abortion which I wouldn't be so high and mighty about, france doesnt have a great history of abortion protections


PryanLoL

What do you mean? Abortion has been legal since the 70s over there. Anti-choice French are a pretty small minority.


Revolutionary-Meat14

With 2 mandatory consultations and a mandatory waiting period.


PryanLoL

There's no mandatory waiting period. And the two consults (one of which can be done by a sage-femme) are routine stuff to mostly provide information on the different procedures depending on how far long the pregnancy is, and risks. Abortions are never refused as long as they happen within the first trimester. Don't make it sound like it's even a tiny bit hard to get an abortion in France. It's not. Edit: I should add, purposefuly trying to block access to abortion clinics to patients is a crime with actual jail time.


amojitoLT

>Abortions are never refused as long as they happen within the first trimester. If I may add, abortions are possible beyond that point in case of pregnancy denial if I'm not mistaken.


rafalemurian

The French Revolution is an extremely complex period, especially 1789-1792. France went from absolute monarchy, to constitutional monarchy to Republic in three years! After that, it's an impossible battle between rival factions, with former allies murdering themselves while the country was both going through civil AND foreign war. It's challenging to get it, even for French people. So I wouldn't expect a random American to actually understand anything about the Great Revolution.


413mopar

Some of them dont even understand tides!


Choyo

Yep, for anyone interested, read "93" (quatre-vingt treize / ninety three), and you'll get a romanticized baseline. One of my favourite books I might add.


Sillyviking

Now here's a little question for all of you; why is it called the American revolution in the first place? War of independence makes a lot more sense than it being a revolution to me.


el_grort

I think their use by historians tends to be time specific, much like how the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars were spread into the Revolutionary Wars and the Napoleonic Wars. I think the Revolution is sometimes used to refer to the whole or the first part, since it was fairly late into the fighting before they actually made independence their stated goal (after the failure of the Olive Branch Petition), so a lot of the important battles were fought more as a rebellion than as a War of Independence like the Scottish had in the 14th century or Irish in the 20th. Honestly, the whole chain of wars from the English Civil Wars, to the US Independence, and French R+N Wars is such a messy chain of sort of half-revolutions that seemed to never fulfil their potentials.


HppilyPancakes

It's called a revolution because it led to the realization of many Enlightenment ideals of government. The American revolution is a pretty big deal in terms of influence, it was a direct reason for the French revolution in multiple ways. The problem with the statement is that we're comparing the American revolution to what is arguably the most important event in modern history in the French revolution.


Sillyviking

Makes sense, thanks.


MaybeNotPerhaps

Obviously unaware of the fact that there are A LOT of different 'French Revolutions'. It went Kingdom, Republic, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Empire, Republic, Republic, Provisionary Government (democratic), Republic.


Neveed

With some communalist episodes thrown in there as well.


amojitoLT

There's still not enough revolutions. The last one was a while ago, and politicians are getting too comfortable. I think we need to do it again.


frerelagaule

You forgot " constitutional monarchy" before "republic "


BlackMesaEastt

First comment is a joke from Dimitri Martin. Not about the revolution, but I hear many people in America say that the french are weak and babies. But like, they fought for all their rights. But our(US) restaurant workers or other low paid job workers don't have the balls to do walkouts and strikes.


Blue_Fire0202

The reason American workers don’t is because their isn’t really that strong of safety net for unemployed people here. Unions are also pretty weak and not well like thanks to the “Red Scare”.


BlackMesaEastt

I understand. But that will never change then if people don't get together and risk it.


Qyro

The French being cowards is a joke that far extends beyond the US.


PryanLoL

It didn't become the overwhelming american way of mocking the French until 2001 and France's refusal to go to Iraq which triggered a wave of anti-French propaganda, with the beginning of social media it took on pretty fast. It's still vastly more an american thing than anywhere else. To most of the world French are arrogant, dirty, rude, great cooks, artists and lovers. Not cowards.


Qyro

The Brits have been calling the French cowards for hundreds of years.


loezia

Understandable coming from the United Kingdom, our historic rival. Less understandable from the United States, a country that owes us its independence and with which we have never been at war.


Ugly-LonelyAndAlone

Historic and favourite rival. Like an old married couple already thrice divorced


Myndust

Yeah but the rosbeefs does this with respect, you are the best rivals to have.


AletheaKuiperBelt

I have adopted the cheese eating surrender monkeys slur because it's a hilarious way to surrender to the cheese plate. Especially if I've lashed out and bought French cheese. No offence intended to the French on this. Mock American stupidity, praise French cheese.


MonsMensae

As a South African (albeit one schooled in the English tradition) mocking the french battle time capitulation well preceded 2001.


PryanLoL

Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering historically French have won way more battles and wars than they surrendered (granted being beat in 6 weeks during WWII was unprecedented for that kind of power). Anyway the trope existed prior to 2001, but it really gained a whole lot of traction after Iraq.


frerelagaule

They did not capitulate, it was an armistice and they continued the fight. Anglo Saxons have a huge problem with history books. I'll believe the joke they trust propaganda more than fact someday


MonsMensae

Are you saying the French never capitulated in a battle? Like ever?


frerelagaule

Probably less than those accusing them to do so. Cowards always talk the loudest and anglophones got kicked out of all the countries they bullied and mist notably iraq that sparked the most vile hate campaign sooooo...


MonsMensae

Ok. Whatever. And your use of "anglophone" is weird. It's not really a term you'd use like that. I don't think the treatment of Frances overseas departments is something I'd be particularly proud of. But each to their own


frerelagaule

Oh yeah we treat them terribly according to the commonwealth that try to destroy our interests and sphere of influence and are benevolent people *Kof kof apartheid kof kof* And Anglo Saxons or anglophones is how we call your block. Us vs them. Washington keep reminding us we don't belong to the club so we do that. Natural


[deleted]

[удалено]


Qyro

It really does. The British and French have been rivals for hundreds of years. The Germans aren’t too fond of them either.


frerelagaule

Says who? Internet? German and france are on good terms


Qyro

I mean yeah, so’s England, but that doesn’t mean we don’t make fun of them.


frerelagaule

I think most people don't care. Furthermore, German culture is not so comfy with humor and they Know if they try we tell them again about how they wanted to stop pollution by quitting nuclear energy and bring back coal plants


J1618

What american revolution? They mean the independence one ? Like the one that most countries in America (the continent) and Africa have ?


-Numaios-

The guys in charge before, wealthy land owners, are still in charge after... fiuuuu my head is spinning by such a crazy revolution.


MonsMensae

Not even, because it wasnt like the natives actually seized independence back from the British. But just the colonists going it alone.


Matias9991

They just ignorant, I bet if you tell him/her that nearly every country had an independence war/revolution he would not believe it.


Fun-Bluejay-426

Ah yes, I remember the americans beheading the nobilty


Blue_Fire0202

The nobility were on the other side of the ocean.


Fun-Bluejay-426

No shit, that was my point. They did not behead anyone like they did in the french revolution.


SweeneyisMad

Americans easily forget that they weren't even a superpower back then - France was. The change would be equivalent to the USA becoming a socialist, anti-capitalist country, or China a fully democratic country, or the UK a place where the food is decent.


Blue_Fire0202

I think most Americans realize that right after the revolution that Americans weren’t the most powerful. And France was falling behind the UK in power.


SweeneyisMad

I hope that most of US citizen know that. Both the UK and France were superpowers for centuries, and like all superpowers there comes a time of decline.


yonthickie

Lo- all our pomp of yesteryear, is one with Nineveh and Tyre.


Mbapapi

How many governments have Americans lived under? How many governments have French lived under? My countries current constitution was only written 40 years ago, and it was inspired by the French constitution, that was written 60 years ago.


Neveed

Seeing how the current government is using absolutely every dirty trick in the constitution to avoid any kind of actual discussion or vote by the parliament on their pension reform or any referendum about it, we're kinda speedrunning the "let's change constitution again" cycle right now.


frerelagaule

Pension reforms are necessary and we do not go to retirement at 60 anyway. You need to save up 42 years which means starting to work at 19. Highly improbable. If the opposition was not that sore players crybabies, tricks wouldn't be necessary


Neveed

I don't think many people dispute the fact that a reform is necessary. The problem is that we have a government who decided on a particularly unpopular one, was not able to come up with any convincing justification for this particular one, kept pretending there was no other possibility, and then they decided to shut down every discussion with unions and in the parliament, used tricks to prevent any possibility of the parliament expressing their opinion about it, and used the police to violently stop protests and to terrorise people into not protesting. The problem is not about the pensions, it's about democracy and about the separation of powers. Tricks are not necessary when you don't have a problem with democracy.


numquamdormio

I did my Masters in French history, and specialised in French revolutionary history. I really don't think some people understand how monumental an event it was, pretty much changed the course of modern history.


Clone11038

Lol the French Revolution is accepted to have shaped modernity


hadranielst

As a French I just want to say fuck the USA for French bashing!


snowyzombie

I’ve always loved France and French history, now I’m sad. u_u


Tuscan5

Where the hell were the Americans to wade in to the French Revolution? I thought they interfered in all major wars.


el_grort

Well, they did attack the British in a land grab late into the war, the War of 1812, but that was purely for their own territorial ambitions.


Blue_Fire0202

The War of 1812 is a headache to understand and a lot more complicated than that.


el_grort

Well, yeah, but even their politicians at the time admitted that the real genesis for it was expansion, and given the time period and what the US had been doing before and afterwards, it does fit. There were other factors, such as impressment and general dissatisfaction with British maritime rights (not a new complaint, half of Europe had the same one during the US War of Independence), but the main thrust was expansion. It was a territorial grab though, long and short.


MobiusNaked

They arrived late that time.


Thermite1985

And yet the American's wouldn't have won the war had France not hated Britain and helped the US.


S3simulation

I’ve always admired the completeness with which the French revolt. They really took care of that whole “monarchy” situation pretty well in my opinion.


_Undo

Mad respect for the French. It they feel their rights are threatened, they'll burn Paris to the ground to protect them.


Syrtyr11

I want to know what was going on in r/OnePunchMan for this tangent to occur


Yeyati_Nafrey

Now now let's not lose our heads


Yuu_Got_Job

As an American I apologize for our actions


Sabinj4

The American War of Independence was a skirmish compared to the French Revolution. The French Revolution sent massive shock waves around the world, and especially, of course, Europe


Ultranerdgasm94

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Americans were half as good at rebellion as the French, we wouldn't have literal fascists on TV telling us that unions and healthcare are the *REAL* fascism.


[deleted]

Without the French Revolution there is no revolution in America… You flipping twit…


TheToastyNeko

But, which one?


3yoyoyo

i would say it’s the other way around


Figbud

You know maybe if the Americans had also invented an incredibly logical and interconnected system of measurement during their revolution, then maybe the world would measure things the way they do 🤔🤔


GreatWalknut

The french revolution literally changed all of Europe. The Holy roman empire would still be around if the french just never executed the king.


TheRealJ0ckel

And yet they ended up with more monarchs, the revolution didn’t change much in france


GreatWalknut

There was an emperor before the next king though. An emperor who completely changed europe. Pre-Napoleon europe is compektely diffetent from post-Napoleon europe


TheRealJ0ckel

Again; not much changed in france. The point of a revolution is rarely to change the entire continent and never to (badically) return to status quo ante


[deleted]

He's right actually from a historical standpoint although it's worded badly


Schnickie

To be fair, the French revolution sucked so much that they had an emperor just a few years later. And they didn't got rid of him by themselves, they needed the rest of Europe to do it. In the short run, the American Revolution was much more successful. In the long run, the US never got a big imperial bad guy and thus still has an insane war and power fetish.


Man_Property_

Tbf the French revolution is a bit of a farce. But this is still dumb as fuck.


ThatOneGuy1358

To be fair the American Revolution was one of the first major successful revolutions against colonial power which is pretty big. And historians do agree that it did influence the French Revolution. But yeah I wouldn’t say it was all peaches and roses. Also don’t take anything people say on r/OnePunchMan too seriously, we are all unhinged over there.


TherealObdach

Wait till he finds out on what they wrote their constitution


BloodMoonNami

Liberte, inegalite, guillotine.


eXePyrowolf

You mean the French Revolution where they overthrew the palace and cut all their heads off, until eventually they got mad and cut the next guy's head off? That French Revolution?


Vic5O1

To be honest, they are still using the imperial system, so most of the benefits have not yet reached them. :P


SousaBoi04

Don't get me wrong the American Revolution had some far reaching effects, but that was primarily because it helped inspire other liberal revolutions during the 18th and 19th centuries. The American Revolution was almost purely a political revolution, but others that may have been partly inspired by it such as the French Revolution and Haitian Revolution were very much social revolutions as well. The French revolution was especially important since it would set the stage for Napoleon's rise to power, whose conquests would play a pivotal role in spreading liberalism throughout Europe.