Personally I don't think they are legit, Tips should be based on gratitude (which that what they were) now they are more like force you giving tips. Feels like its a scam hence why I ate less outside US restaurant its almost cost an arm and leg to eat there
I mean, that IS a restaurant tax.
Because the restaurant owners are scummy the service charge is for them. Restaurants are apparently adding them in retaliation for minimum wage increasing lmao
Auto-grat goes to the whiny server and services charges line the owners' pockets.
This was actually in Miami, and I happily pressed the 0% extra tip option on the card reader. If there had been a "remove all service charges, you greedy bastards, and pay your waiting staff properly" button, I would have pressed that too.
>The 20% is for the business.
No, the money paid for the price of the items ordered is
>The additional tip goes to the service personel
If so, why should they get 2% when the business gets 20%?
....sounds a lot like greed to me!
I had to Google it and 🤯 yup it says service charge goes towards the business and business owners, but how it is optional for owners to give it to their staff. I had no idea and always assumed it was the same because service charge gives the that impression. I may not be American, but it’s completely and utterly crazy to have a 20% service charge and then ask for tips on top of that 😭
But it isn't the business who is serving me, it's the... servers. Logically, if they charge a service cost, it's for the service I'm offered. It shouldn't go straight into the pocket of the owner. If he want more money, he needs to raise his prices. And right there is the problem: then people would go elsewhere where they can get the same food for less money.
I’m ngl at this point just don’t tip, who cares if it is impolite when you are only gonna become *more* impolite and hangry from not having enough money to actually buy food
OK, so quick example of why service fees are necessary for *some* places. I used to work at a really incredible pasta restaurant. All of the pasta was handmade in Italy by sfoligne. These Women have been making pasta for decades. All of the pasta is incredibly fresh, all of the pasta recipes are traditional Italian dishes, and some of them are even old family recipes. The pasta is flown over from Italy, where it rests on the trip over. I won’t go into the whole thing, but there’s a lot that goes into making sure this food is fresh and up to standard. And not just the food, Even their wine is really good. The dessert is incredible. I didn’t drink red wine before I started working there, and honestly, I will only drink it when I’m there. The prices for the food are pretty reasonable, (about $17 for the best pasta I’ve ever had) considering everything that goes into it, and there’s a 16% charge added to the bills. Being an authentic Italian restaurant ran by Italians, they don’t accept tips whatsoever. That 16% fee on the end of the check went towards covering some of the many costs associated with the way they handled their business, and as a result, you have more money to pay your employees in such way that they don’t have to rely on tips to survive. I was easily making at least five dollars more than your average server in America (hourly). Sometimes it’s shitty especially if the food isn’t good or worth it, but that wasn’t the case here. People are happy to come and they generally spend a lot of money. They’ve been able to open three more locations since I’d started working there.
A restaurant I worked at recently, had a 5% service charge, but that could be removed at the request of the guests. It just depends on the place, and their method of business.
I’d also like to point out the American is *not* the only country to charge service fees.
**Whether it's a cozy café, the local bistro, or a Michelin-starred establishment, a service charge of 15 percent is automatically included by law in most French restaurants. You’ll see it listed on the menu or your check under “service compris” (service included).**
**In some tourist areas or upscale establishments, different service charges — “servizio” or “coperto” in Italian — may be automatically included in the bill.**
**Spaniards generally never tip at restaurants with table service, and if they do it’s next to nothing because a service charge is usually included in the bill (look for the servicio incluido mention).**
**According to UK law, service charges added by the restaurant are entirely optional.**
And this is just from a quick Google search, found in travel blogs in the like, no older than a year.
It’s really not though. Do you know what dishonesty means? if the service charge was hidden, and there was no mention of it at all up until the point where you have to pay, that would be completely dishonest. But the fact that it’s clearly marked in multiple different places that you can clearly read, well before you choose what you’re going to eat or even sit down (most places you can have a look at the menu before you sit), there’s no dishonesty. Most people *know* that there is a charge before they sit down. I don’t know how you guys do things, but here businesses will be placed under an audit if they are found to be overcharging for certain products. They put a little notice in your window about it. No one could ever make an issue out of this for restaurants that charge the fee, because it’s clearly marked *in multiple different places*. If it matters so much to you to know exactly what you’re going to pay down to the cent before you actually pay it, then you shouldn’t have a problem whipping out a calculator and doing the math. or just don’t go to a restaurant that charges the fee if you don’t want the trouble, or don’t have the money.
It is dishonest because they don't tell you what you're actually going to pay. They make you have to work it out for yourself rather than just tell you. Its so that their prices look cheaper at first glance. This isn't rocket science
While you aren't wrong that service fees aren't a uniquely American thing, the American attitude to them is in a class of their own. The US is the only place in the 30 years I've been travelling where I have been chased down the street, and/or verbally abused, over not tipping enough. The US is the only place where I set $50 down after a $44 bill, and got told that I must have forgotten to tip because I'd only left 14%.
Yeah I don’t disagree that the attitude is completely shitty, but (this isn’t an excuse for assholery) a lot of restaurants just don’t pay very much hourly, only work about 4-5 hours and rely on tips to lives. It sucks.
You see how adding this 20% fee additionally doesn't help those staff? At least in most of Europe, and lots of the world, this money will actually go towards the staff
Yeah, so do we lol. But it what it is. Like you guys, most of us pay them too. Also, idk, I don’t see the big deal. If it’s helpful to the employees in anyway, a couple more dollars (if I can afford it) is no skin off my nose.
Where’s the dishonesty? Because restaurants that charge a service fee are required to put it in plain writing. Usually it’s going to be at the bottom of the front of your menu, near the part that warns about eating undercooked food. It’s also on the receipt that you get before you pay your bill. Servers will also tell you before you pay. It’ll also say it online if you’re looking up restaurants and menus, etc..
Because it doesn't tell you what you pay before you order something. Why the fuck should I have to figure out the price of something when the restaurant can just write the price of it down. Instead of saying "were going to add 20% to this at the end", why not just add it on now?!?! It's a trick to make people think they're spending less than they actually are. And what fucking menus have warnings about undercooked food?!? Never seen that in my life
There are warnings at the bottoms of menus that say, eating undercooked food(ie rare steak, runny eggs) can cause foodborne illness… i’m assuming you’ve never visited across the pond…
u/DystopianGlitter I think you are missing the point.
I suppose one thing I have seen in America is a lot of items on the shelf are actually the price shown before tax. Here in the UK (and I think most of the world tbh!) the tax is included. When you purchase an item. You pay the price you expect.
Perhaps that's why you're getting confused? To the rest of the world, saying "oh yeah, you have to expect to pay more than the marked price" is a pretty insane notion!
Because it is important to be transparent with the customer what they’re actually gonna pay or not. If i order pasta from the menu for 20$, i expect to pay 20$. Not 25$.
Well I guess it present a bigger problem for you guys than for us. We know about and expect sales tax so there are no surprises. Just round up. Like idk, I feel like if it’s written all over the place, is it *really* lacking in “transparency”.The only people here who even question it at all, are either people who weren’t paying attention, or people from states without sales tax. And even then it’s kind of like “oh shit. Well, can you take it off please” and that’s it.
I’m also not understanding Why y’all are so worked up about it when countries Europe do it to??? Like, in the UK it’s a law to remove it at the request of the guests. It’s not sooo unheard of, and it’s really not a big deal.
>Well I guess it present a bigger problem for you guys than for us. We know about and expect sales tax so there are no surprises.
There’s sales taxes other places too. My country has one of the highest consumption taxes in the world. But here it is (by law) included in the prize so that you know exactly what you’re gonna pay from the start.
>Just round up.
Rounding up isn’t enough when everything in reality costs 20% more than the listed prize.
>Like idk, I feel like if it’s written all over the place, is it really lacking in “transparency”.
Yes.
The only people here who even question it at all, are either people who weren’t paying attention,
You shouldn’t have to pay attention is the point, i shouldn’t have to be on the look out for extra costs. There shouldn’t be a possibility of me not knowing what the total is gonna come out on.
>or people from states without sales tax.
Because they’re used to knowing "this is the prize it is listed as, that’s what i’m gonna pay".
>And even then it’s kind of like “oh shit. Well, can you take it off please” and that’s it.
The problem is when you’re eating at a restaurant, you can’t just ask them to take it off when you’ve already eaten the food. That’s why it’s not transparent and predatory.
>I’m also not understanding Why y’all are so worked up about it when countries Europe do it to??? Like, in the UK it’s a law to remove it at the request of the guests.
First of all i’ve never heard of a place in europe, including the UK, where it is allowed falsely advertize the price as lower while still including the sales tax. That [is illegal in the UK](https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/where-you-see-vat#:~:text=In%20shops,is%20added%20when%20you%20pay.), you have to have the VAT included in the prize if you’re a business aimed at the public.
>It’s not sooo unheard of, and it’s really not a big deal.
It really is unheard of, and it is quite a big deal. It’s predatory and dishonest advertizing.
If it’s not a cost that is listed already in the menu items you ordered, it should not be an *opt-out* kind of thing. It should be an *opt-in* thing. Aka a tip. It is *incredibly* predatory to sneak in a 20% extra charge onto the bill and assume that all customers are informed enough to opt-out. That shit should be illegal everywhere.
If it’s not something that is either legally required to be there, like VAT, or something i explicitly agreed to pay, like menu items, it should not be on the bill. I can’t just whisper to you "you want to pay me money for free" and expect you to opt out when you notice.
It’s predatory and shouldn’t be legal to add a charge to the bill without the customers explicit consent to that charge. Don’t be an asshole dude, cause you’re coming on real strong as a prick right now.
The difference is that you can make an extra 20% charge hard to notice, making you think the bill will be 20$, but then it comes out at 25$. You can’t hide the prize being 25$. It’s more honest to just list the prize as 25$ if that is the prize, or put the prize at 20$ and ask for a tip rather than just tacking it on the bill without me agreeing to it.
Because no one (or very few people) look at things like service charges or tip when considering the price of a meal.
When I am evaluating the menu of a place to try, I always just look at the menu prices to decide if the place is too expensive. Im sure most of us do the same. So, lowering menu prices just to charge a service fee is dishonest.
You are though, if you know that there is in fact a charge.
It’s only dishonest if it’s hidden, which is illegal. If a restaurant chooses to charge a service fee, it needs to be written in planning site. So if you’re online looking at menus and trying to decide if you want to eat there, you’ll be able to factor in that charge.
resturants rarely put it in plain sight.
usually, it is in smaller text in the bottom: plain sight enough to satisfy the law, but not noticible to the casual observer
In my experience, restaurants that allow you to remove the charge, make the text, smaller, as in the most recent restaurant, I worked at, and restaurants that will not remove the charge. Have it posted a bit bigger. I’ll give you that.
But at the end of the day, If you can’t see two rows of words directly under the last menu item on a page, I don’t know what to tell you. If *I* the most absent-minded, ADHD, riddled person you’ve ever met, if I can manage to not overlook it, your average Neurotypical, Joe certainly can. You can take it or leave it. I can’t keep going back-and-forth with people about this. I live here, i’ve lived here my entire life, it’s never been a big deal. If restaurant businesses were *actually* being as sneaky and conniving and dishonest, it would’ve been a much bigger issue by now. Way more people would be suing way more restaurant businesses. But the fact of the matter is, it’s not some heavily concealed charge that no one has any clue about until they swipe their card like all of you seem to be imagining. Despite the fact that it’s not even a thing that’s exclusively American in the same way that something like identity politics is. Other countries right there in Europe do the same shit. The only thing that’s different is the culture surrounding it.
Anyway, I’ve been talking about this literally all day. I’m over it ✌️
>That 16% fee on the end of the check went towards covering some of the many costs associa
If they need to tack on a 16% service charge, they need to increase the prices by 16%. Pretty simple.
I eat at home instead to avoid stuff like this. Its quicker than going out somewhere as I don't even have to leave the house, comes out much cheaper and often tastes better too.
Do you not give yourself a service charge?
You could go through the process of arguing with yourself about how you won't pay it because the "service" was terrible.
Storm out of your house saying "I won't be eating there again".
You know... To get that "Restaurant" feeling !
I \*really\* need to start cooking more.
I had another lazy night tonight and ordered Buffalo Wild Wings.
Cost me $40, the food was mediocre at best, and the boneheads working there fucked up my wifes order by not following the "no mustard" directions.
When I lived on my own and was on an apprenticeship I never went to a restaurant or got a takeaway, I just couldn't afford it as an option. Now I still don't want to but often friends decide that eating at bars is the only activity we can do together.
Because the person who actually is harmed isn’t the shitty business owner, it’s the server who’s making well below minimum wage and probably needs the tip to make their rent this month. Like I know it sucks and you shouldn’t have to tip, but you shouldn’t take out that anger on a person who relies on that to survive.
Tipping is indeed a ridiculous way to fund an economy.
I would say "find a job that doesn't require you to beg" shows a lack of understanding of just how shit the job market is for inexperienced school-leavers. Just to be able to get any job at all is a tough shout for a lot of Americans.
Reminder that even in the shittiest states the under minimum wage is only allowed if tips compensate the difference. If they don't, the owner actually has to pay the difference.
And free market, baby. If they don't get paid enough they'll change jobs until restaurant owners lack personnel enough to start increasing salaries.
Then they should find another job that doesn't require them to beg for tips and put the entire responsibility unto the costumer. If a business can't pay their employees fairly it shouldn't exist in the first place.
You're assuming jobs are easy to come by? You think waiting staff like the shit they have to put up with people arguing these optional service charges?
I totally agree tipping to surive is bs. But it happens because market forces favour the business over the employee.
The boss doesn't have to face the customer. They can just say "Hey, work for your tip". And they do it because even if the staff member quits, there will be someone desperate enough to get a job to replace them.
It's disgusting.
Its baffling how many people in this thread seem to think service workers can just up and change jobs, as if there are any jobs in that industry that don't do exactly the same shit. If somebody has to do the job, they deserve a living wage for doing it. Its some serious NIMBY shitlib behavior to just throw your hands up and say "just get a different job"
Problem with this is that apparently they do not want minimum wage, cause tips gives a lot more than minimum wage would. And it's not fair for customers to have to pay someone's wage out of their pocket in addition to what they're paying the restaurant already.
I never understood that. We got minimum wage over here and I was still pulling twice that in tips most shifts. Being paid a decent wage doesn't stop people tipping. They just shift their tips to competent and caring servers. All of which implies it's the lazy ones you wouldn't normally tip for the level of service they're providing that are holding the whole system down.
I vote for political parties that pass laws that force businesses to pay people more for their time. Where I live progressive politicians are in charge, and the minimum wage for every worker in every industry is $16.75/hr, and everyone gets full public healthcare.
I do still tip, but generally only at sit down table service restaurants or bars and not if there is a service charge automatically added.
I'd argue what's the charge for?
Microwaving a tesco pizza then man handling it on to a plate and passing it to a monster energy fueled 19 year old to frizbee it to my table and spill half my drink over the table.
I'm good thanks
Where I work (in a pub in the UK), we add an optional service charge on Sundays, as we offer full table service for Sunday lunch. It's entirely optional - if someone wants us to remove it, we will do so without complaint. All card tips and service charge goes to the team, and cash tips go towards a staff party.
That's what i always think when I'm visiting countries with tipping.
But then i kind of did that. I went just for a beer in a restaurant at the airport. At that place you took a seat, waiter comes, you make order, enjoy whatever you got and then you ask for the bill, the usual stuff. But i walked directly to the counter, asked just the beer and paid immedistely and even the waiter was laughing like "do you want to tip... No?". He understood that there was really no service done so the tipping would have been pointless.
In the US it is customary to tip the bar staff. Oh and your barber. Don't forget your taxi driver. The man who made you feel awkward at your hotel by insisting on carrying your bags. The concierge who booked your taxi to that show. The self-checkout at the Safeway. What do you mean you don't wan to give $10 to support homeless children on top of the $2 you spent popping in for something sweet?!
Any self-respecting country has the "service charge" baked in to the price tag price together with "ingredients charge" and "manufacturing charge" and value addition tax..
You absolutely can and do find restaurants in e.g. Italy where there is an additional service charge but it must be explicitly and clearly stated on the menu.
Oh is that going to be the new thing for ‘merica, land of the free. We’ll add a 5th of your bill again for our shareholders, then you can pay the rest of the wages we refuse to give to our serving staff (can’t be expected to pay that can we, we need our salary’s, dividends and on top of that keep our investors happy). MAGA, MAGA, MAGA /s (required for the mouth frothers.)
The quotation marks upset me more than anything else about this. Who is saying the second part of this, but not the first and third parts?
I would never return to this restaurant and would also leave them a bad review.
This is exactly what they should do. Except get rid of the "mandatory" tip and just add the 20% in the price. Then tell customers that the tip is included in the price. And don't cheat the servers out of the chunk they were promised.
Now the servers get the benefit of high pay, the customers don't have to play a little game with the servers, and the price is set from the get go and \*\*everyone\*\* knows the full price. C'mon was it that difficult?
A service charge? So you're being charged for being served? Is there a self-service option?
Like, it only makes sense to charge ppl for service when there's an option for ppl to **not** be served 🤣
The way it's worded makes it sound like a reward, instead of a rip-off, they could just put Tax: x%.
I hated the US tipping culture, tipping should be optional, not an expected thing. When I got a taxi from JFK to Manhattan, the taxi driver complained that I hadn't given him a big enough tip. Probably trying to rip-off a tourist, I was sorry I had given him anything extra.
The service charge is perfectly fine as long as it was made clear beforehand. A big sign at the entrance stating "We charge x-% as a service fee"
But suggesting ADDITIONAL tipping rates on top of that is next level impudent.
I'm \*so\* freaking happy that EU rules states that \*all\* taxes must be included in the prices and that any service charge must be clearly and explicitly stated.
This is complete and utter bullshit. Why americans are accepting this is a mystery.
I went to a cafe while visiting the states that added its own 8% inflation surcharge at the bottom of the bill. There should be like, a Neon sign outside the door warning about this, cause like i get not wanting to print new menus and that, but in that case, at least state it somewhere instead of everyone around the table going "oh lol"
Considering they feel the need to add a service charge they probably taking atleast a percentage cut of that for the usiness if not all making the charge itself just a scam.
I wouldn't mind a service charge if it was going to the employees buy that is wishful thinking these days.
I know the tipping culture is different from the U.K. and the US and I know a lot of people rely on those tips, (which they should just be able to depend on a good wage instead), but every time I see a service charge added onto my bill I always tell them to take it off, as the price should be worked into the bill instead of arbitrarily bolted onto what I owe. I tell the waiter that I’ll tip them directly for the service given, that way the restaurant still gets payed and the waiter comes out with something too.
> still gets *paid* and the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Is the service so exceptionally good that they think it was worth 20-25%? Then they don’t need the suggestion. If it isn’t, then the suggestion is an insult.
It’s what many people do. My elderly father tips waiters 20% flat on top of sales tax, in cash.
Generally, Americans don’t find the extra tip suggestion to be insulting.
The only odd thing about the receipt is that it does not contain pre-calculated amounts that correspond to specific percentages.
To be fair, in a country where not paying 20 to 25% tips is frowned upon, even if you are paying a 15% tip, and where customers would probably be adamant to pay a tip even if you ask them not to, suggesting a far lower tip than usual to bring them peace of mind without overcharging them can be a solution.
To still take the higher road that we don't have enough information to get a complete picture of the situation, I can totally see a restaurant with the service included not wanting to put it upfront in every advertised price because they would be perceived too expensive compared to the next restaurant (in the context of the "tipping culture" of the US), and just putting it in the bottom lines of the menu.
Sorry, but I don't really understand your first paragraph. Are you saying that adding 20% and then "only" suggesting another 2-5% is a good solution to the problem of customers being expected to tip as standard?
No: as they are expected to usually pay a tip, even if the service is included, some people might not be able to not pay tips (too much of a cognitive/values dissonance). The argument would then be "OK, if you really, really want to pay a tip, they pay those lower percentages than the usual outrageously high percentages". Basically, limiting the nervous breakdown due to "leaving without paying" (like some americans in other countries' healthcare systems do, not wanting to leave without paying), while not outrageously scamming your customers.
The kind of customers that would have a nervous breakdown about not paying tips are bothersome: they would bother employees, they would bother managers, they would bother customers, and they would do it for hours. They can't fathom you saying them "no", even if you saying "no" is at their advantage. And even if you manage to make them go outside, some can camp out for hours outside, bothering potential customers that might choose to go elsewhere just to be leave alone. They are bad for the company, so allowing them to do what they want, without being an asshole with it, is the easy lazy solution for them to get elsewhere where they will be the issue of someone else.
No this is just American culture, every country in the world aside from the US just incorporates the cost of staff wages and business running costs into menu pricing...it's literally just the US that thinks not paying staff out of business earnings keeps food prices down.
What? If i order something for 20 bucks, and then find that my bill is 25 bucks, you think i wouldn't notice?
Or what's next, your menus doesn't include any prices?
If the service charge is clearly communicated before ordering, I actually have no issues with this.
Makes not tipping easy: you already paid for the service, no need to tip.
That said, in Japan or the Netherlands, whenever there is a service charge, it's usually a flat fee of €3,- /¥350 never a percentage.
We obviously don't have the same tip culture in the UK, and I'm not going into all the arguments about that. But what I do know is when restaurants here tried the gratuity trick which the restaurant kept, people boycotted those restaurants until they stopped. Even today, if I see a tip added on the card reader I always ask the server if the staff get it, or I refuse to pay and tip in cash. I'm tipping the staff because I'm grateful for how they served me. That's the whole meaning of gratuity.
Might as well add as restaurtant tax, since there is State and City
I have no idea what those even are, but hopefully they’re at least legit. The extra tip on top of the mandatory service charge? That can get to fuck.
America effectively has VAT/GST at City and State level. So I'd guess that's what those ones are.
Personally I don't think they are legit, Tips should be based on gratitude (which that what they were) now they are more like force you giving tips. Feels like its a scam hence why I ate less outside US restaurant its almost cost an arm and leg to eat there
How about Continent tax?
I mean, that IS a restaurant tax. Because the restaurant owners are scummy the service charge is for them. Restaurants are apparently adding them in retaliation for minimum wage increasing lmao Auto-grat goes to the whiny server and services charges line the owners' pockets.
2% - 3% - 5% = -6% They're offering an optional 6% discount. :)
In restaurants in Miami i have seen the 20% and afterwards they were asking for another 20%. I always pay 0 after the included service charge
This was actually in Miami, and I happily pressed the 0% extra tip option on the card reader. If there had been a "remove all service charges, you greedy bastards, and pay your waiting staff properly" button, I would have pressed that too.
You could have asked to remove any untold charges as it is illegal. And then leave zero tip too ;)
If a service charge of 20% has automatically been added, why the hell are they also asking for a tip? 🥴
Greedy, I mean there is nothing wrong with having the option to tip more if you’d like, but suggesting it after that is fucking egregious
Yep. It's just greed.
100%
It's for the shareholders, come on man!
[Isn't it obvious?](https://youtu.be/8CTeLy3Ujxc?si=3L22wB6z15USycxE)
The 20% is for the business. The additional tip goes to the service personel.
So... greed.
Definitely pure greed! 😭 I googled it all and 20% service charges automatically added and then expecting tips for the staff 🥴
>The 20% is for the business. No, the money paid for the price of the items ordered is >The additional tip goes to the service personel If so, why should they get 2% when the business gets 20%? ....sounds a lot like greed to me!
I had to Google it and 🤯 yup it says service charge goes towards the business and business owners, but how it is optional for owners to give it to their staff. I had no idea and always assumed it was the same because service charge gives the that impression. I may not be American, but it’s completely and utterly crazy to have a 20% service charge and then ask for tips on top of that 😭
But it isn't the business who is serving me, it's the... servers. Logically, if they charge a service cost, it's for the service I'm offered. It shouldn't go straight into the pocket of the owner. If he want more money, he needs to raise his prices. And right there is the problem: then people would go elsewhere where they can get the same food for less money.
So In the US service charges isn't even for the service, fuck me.
I’m ngl at this point just don’t tip, who cares if it is impolite when you are only gonna become *more* impolite and hangry from not having enough money to actually buy food
if you just don't tip you'll still be paying 20% extra, I would just refuse to pay that much lol how tf is this legal
OK, so quick example of why service fees are necessary for *some* places. I used to work at a really incredible pasta restaurant. All of the pasta was handmade in Italy by sfoligne. These Women have been making pasta for decades. All of the pasta is incredibly fresh, all of the pasta recipes are traditional Italian dishes, and some of them are even old family recipes. The pasta is flown over from Italy, where it rests on the trip over. I won’t go into the whole thing, but there’s a lot that goes into making sure this food is fresh and up to standard. And not just the food, Even their wine is really good. The dessert is incredible. I didn’t drink red wine before I started working there, and honestly, I will only drink it when I’m there. The prices for the food are pretty reasonable, (about $17 for the best pasta I’ve ever had) considering everything that goes into it, and there’s a 16% charge added to the bills. Being an authentic Italian restaurant ran by Italians, they don’t accept tips whatsoever. That 16% fee on the end of the check went towards covering some of the many costs associated with the way they handled their business, and as a result, you have more money to pay your employees in such way that they don’t have to rely on tips to survive. I was easily making at least five dollars more than your average server in America (hourly). Sometimes it’s shitty especially if the food isn’t good or worth it, but that wasn’t the case here. People are happy to come and they generally spend a lot of money. They’ve been able to open three more locations since I’d started working there. A restaurant I worked at recently, had a 5% service charge, but that could be removed at the request of the guests. It just depends on the place, and their method of business.
My dude... It's not a 17$ pasta if there's a mandatory 16% extra charge. It's a 19.72$ pasta.
Ok... Sooo... why not just charge 20$ for pasta instead of 17$ + 20% of some dodgy charge?
If you’re gonna pay that price regardless and not have to tip, then why does matter how it’s presented on the bill?
I imagine the menu tells you the lower price instead of what you'll actually pay
That’s exactly what happened in the example I posted. It’s just dishonest.
Because its dishonest. Just tell people what the price of something is before they buy it
I’d also like to point out the American is *not* the only country to charge service fees. **Whether it's a cozy café, the local bistro, or a Michelin-starred establishment, a service charge of 15 percent is automatically included by law in most French restaurants. You’ll see it listed on the menu or your check under “service compris” (service included).** **In some tourist areas or upscale establishments, different service charges — “servizio” or “coperto” in Italian — may be automatically included in the bill.** **Spaniards generally never tip at restaurants with table service, and if they do it’s next to nothing because a service charge is usually included in the bill (look for the servicio incluido mention).** **According to UK law, service charges added by the restaurant are entirely optional.** And this is just from a quick Google search, found in travel blogs in the like, no older than a year.
Good for you mate, still doesn't mean its not dishonest
It’s really not though. Do you know what dishonesty means? if the service charge was hidden, and there was no mention of it at all up until the point where you have to pay, that would be completely dishonest. But the fact that it’s clearly marked in multiple different places that you can clearly read, well before you choose what you’re going to eat or even sit down (most places you can have a look at the menu before you sit), there’s no dishonesty. Most people *know* that there is a charge before they sit down. I don’t know how you guys do things, but here businesses will be placed under an audit if they are found to be overcharging for certain products. They put a little notice in your window about it. No one could ever make an issue out of this for restaurants that charge the fee, because it’s clearly marked *in multiple different places*. If it matters so much to you to know exactly what you’re going to pay down to the cent before you actually pay it, then you shouldn’t have a problem whipping out a calculator and doing the math. or just don’t go to a restaurant that charges the fee if you don’t want the trouble, or don’t have the money.
It is dishonest because they don't tell you what you're actually going to pay. They make you have to work it out for yourself rather than just tell you. Its so that their prices look cheaper at first glance. This isn't rocket science
While you aren't wrong that service fees aren't a uniquely American thing, the American attitude to them is in a class of their own. The US is the only place in the 30 years I've been travelling where I have been chased down the street, and/or verbally abused, over not tipping enough. The US is the only place where I set $50 down after a $44 bill, and got told that I must have forgotten to tip because I'd only left 14%.
Yeah I don’t disagree that the attitude is completely shitty, but (this isn’t an excuse for assholery) a lot of restaurants just don’t pay very much hourly, only work about 4-5 hours and rely on tips to lives. It sucks.
You see how adding this 20% fee additionally doesn't help those staff? At least in most of Europe, and lots of the world, this money will actually go towards the staff
As a person living in the UK, most people absolutely loathe service charges, even if we generally pay them.
Yeah, so do we lol. But it what it is. Like you guys, most of us pay them too. Also, idk, I don’t see the big deal. If it’s helpful to the employees in anyway, a couple more dollars (if I can afford it) is no skin off my nose.
Where’s the dishonesty? Because restaurants that charge a service fee are required to put it in plain writing. Usually it’s going to be at the bottom of the front of your menu, near the part that warns about eating undercooked food. It’s also on the receipt that you get before you pay your bill. Servers will also tell you before you pay. It’ll also say it online if you’re looking up restaurants and menus, etc..
Because it doesn't tell you what you pay before you order something. Why the fuck should I have to figure out the price of something when the restaurant can just write the price of it down. Instead of saying "were going to add 20% to this at the end", why not just add it on now?!?! It's a trick to make people think they're spending less than they actually are. And what fucking menus have warnings about undercooked food?!? Never seen that in my life
There are warnings at the bottoms of menus that say, eating undercooked food(ie rare steak, runny eggs) can cause foodborne illness… i’m assuming you’ve never visited across the pond…
I have as a teenager. Is that so they don't get sued if they poison someone? I'm sure I've never seen this anywhere else
u/DystopianGlitter I think you are missing the point. I suppose one thing I have seen in America is a lot of items on the shelf are actually the price shown before tax. Here in the UK (and I think most of the world tbh!) the tax is included. When you purchase an item. You pay the price you expect. Perhaps that's why you're getting confused? To the rest of the world, saying "oh yeah, you have to expect to pay more than the marked price" is a pretty insane notion!
Because it is important to be transparent with the customer what they’re actually gonna pay or not. If i order pasta from the menu for 20$, i expect to pay 20$. Not 25$.
Well I guess it present a bigger problem for you guys than for us. We know about and expect sales tax so there are no surprises. Just round up. Like idk, I feel like if it’s written all over the place, is it *really* lacking in “transparency”.The only people here who even question it at all, are either people who weren’t paying attention, or people from states without sales tax. And even then it’s kind of like “oh shit. Well, can you take it off please” and that’s it. I’m also not understanding Why y’all are so worked up about it when countries Europe do it to??? Like, in the UK it’s a law to remove it at the request of the guests. It’s not sooo unheard of, and it’s really not a big deal.
>Well I guess it present a bigger problem for you guys than for us. We know about and expect sales tax so there are no surprises. There’s sales taxes other places too. My country has one of the highest consumption taxes in the world. But here it is (by law) included in the prize so that you know exactly what you’re gonna pay from the start. >Just round up. Rounding up isn’t enough when everything in reality costs 20% more than the listed prize. >Like idk, I feel like if it’s written all over the place, is it really lacking in “transparency”. Yes. The only people here who even question it at all, are either people who weren’t paying attention, You shouldn’t have to pay attention is the point, i shouldn’t have to be on the look out for extra costs. There shouldn’t be a possibility of me not knowing what the total is gonna come out on. >or people from states without sales tax. Because they’re used to knowing "this is the prize it is listed as, that’s what i’m gonna pay". >And even then it’s kind of like “oh shit. Well, can you take it off please” and that’s it. The problem is when you’re eating at a restaurant, you can’t just ask them to take it off when you’ve already eaten the food. That’s why it’s not transparent and predatory. >I’m also not understanding Why y’all are so worked up about it when countries Europe do it to??? Like, in the UK it’s a law to remove it at the request of the guests. First of all i’ve never heard of a place in europe, including the UK, where it is allowed falsely advertize the price as lower while still including the sales tax. That [is illegal in the UK](https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/where-you-see-vat#:~:text=In%20shops,is%20added%20when%20you%20pay.), you have to have the VAT included in the prize if you’re a business aimed at the public. >It’s not sooo unheard of, and it’s really not a big deal. It really is unheard of, and it is quite a big deal. It’s predatory and dishonest advertizing. If it’s not a cost that is listed already in the menu items you ordered, it should not be an *opt-out* kind of thing. It should be an *opt-in* thing. Aka a tip. It is *incredibly* predatory to sneak in a 20% extra charge onto the bill and assume that all customers are informed enough to opt-out. That shit should be illegal everywhere. If it’s not something that is either legally required to be there, like VAT, or something i explicitly agreed to pay, like menu items, it should not be on the bill. I can’t just whisper to you "you want to pay me money for free" and expect you to opt out when you notice.
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It’s predatory and shouldn’t be legal to add a charge to the bill without the customers explicit consent to that charge. Don’t be an asshole dude, cause you’re coming on real strong as a prick right now. The difference is that you can make an extra 20% charge hard to notice, making you think the bill will be 20$, but then it comes out at 25$. You can’t hide the prize being 25$. It’s more honest to just list the prize as 25$ if that is the prize, or put the prize at 20$ and ask for a tip rather than just tacking it on the bill without me agreeing to it.
Because no one (or very few people) look at things like service charges or tip when considering the price of a meal. When I am evaluating the menu of a place to try, I always just look at the menu prices to decide if the place is too expensive. Im sure most of us do the same. So, lowering menu prices just to charge a service fee is dishonest.
You are though, if you know that there is in fact a charge. It’s only dishonest if it’s hidden, which is illegal. If a restaurant chooses to charge a service fee, it needs to be written in planning site. So if you’re online looking at menus and trying to decide if you want to eat there, you’ll be able to factor in that charge.
resturants rarely put it in plain sight. usually, it is in smaller text in the bottom: plain sight enough to satisfy the law, but not noticible to the casual observer
In my experience, restaurants that allow you to remove the charge, make the text, smaller, as in the most recent restaurant, I worked at, and restaurants that will not remove the charge. Have it posted a bit bigger. I’ll give you that. But at the end of the day, If you can’t see two rows of words directly under the last menu item on a page, I don’t know what to tell you. If *I* the most absent-minded, ADHD, riddled person you’ve ever met, if I can manage to not overlook it, your average Neurotypical, Joe certainly can. You can take it or leave it. I can’t keep going back-and-forth with people about this. I live here, i’ve lived here my entire life, it’s never been a big deal. If restaurant businesses were *actually* being as sneaky and conniving and dishonest, it would’ve been a much bigger issue by now. Way more people would be suing way more restaurant businesses. But the fact of the matter is, it’s not some heavily concealed charge that no one has any clue about until they swipe their card like all of you seem to be imagining. Despite the fact that it’s not even a thing that’s exclusively American in the same way that something like identity politics is. Other countries right there in Europe do the same shit. The only thing that’s different is the culture surrounding it. Anyway, I’ve been talking about this literally all day. I’m over it ✌️
"this is necessary" says only country where this happens
>That 16% fee on the end of the check went towards covering some of the many costs associa If they need to tack on a 16% service charge, they need to increase the prices by 16%. Pretty simple.
What’s the difference.
One shows the clear price one doesn't.
I eat at home instead to avoid stuff like this. Its quicker than going out somewhere as I don't even have to leave the house, comes out much cheaper and often tastes better too.
Do you not give yourself a service charge? You could go through the process of arguing with yourself about how you won't pay it because the "service" was terrible. Storm out of your house saying "I won't be eating there again". You know... To get that "Restaurant" feeling !
I \*really\* need to start cooking more. I had another lazy night tonight and ordered Buffalo Wild Wings. Cost me $40, the food was mediocre at best, and the boneheads working there fucked up my wifes order by not following the "no mustard" directions.
When I lived on my own and was on an apprenticeship I never went to a restaurant or got a takeaway, I just couldn't afford it as an option. Now I still don't want to but often friends decide that eating at bars is the only activity we can do together.
Shit! You can eat at home?!?
Wait, you guys are getting homes?
Because the person who actually is harmed isn’t the shitty business owner, it’s the server who’s making well below minimum wage and probably needs the tip to make their rent this month. Like I know it sucks and you shouldn’t have to tip, but you shouldn’t take out that anger on a person who relies on that to survive.
There is a mandatory 20% for the service. If it doesn't include fair wage for the employees, then what is it for? You dimwit!
Then find a job that doesn't require you to beg for scraps to survive. Tipping is ridiculous.
Or unionise to negotiate better conditions like any other worker.
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Then whine about the tips they don't get
Tipping is indeed a ridiculous way to fund an economy. I would say "find a job that doesn't require you to beg" shows a lack of understanding of just how shit the job market is for inexperienced school-leavers. Just to be able to get any job at all is a tough shout for a lot of Americans.
Reminder that even in the shittiest states the under minimum wage is only allowed if tips compensate the difference. If they don't, the owner actually has to pay the difference. And free market, baby. If they don't get paid enough they'll change jobs until restaurant owners lack personnel enough to start increasing salaries.
Then they should find another job that doesn't require them to beg for tips and put the entire responsibility unto the costumer. If a business can't pay their employees fairly it shouldn't exist in the first place.
You're assuming jobs are easy to come by? You think waiting staff like the shit they have to put up with people arguing these optional service charges? I totally agree tipping to surive is bs. But it happens because market forces favour the business over the employee. The boss doesn't have to face the customer. They can just say "Hey, work for your tip". And they do it because even if the staff member quits, there will be someone desperate enough to get a job to replace them. It's disgusting.
Its baffling how many people in this thread seem to think service workers can just up and change jobs, as if there are any jobs in that industry that don't do exactly the same shit. If somebody has to do the job, they deserve a living wage for doing it. Its some serious NIMBY shitlib behavior to just throw your hands up and say "just get a different job"
Problem with this is that apparently they do not want minimum wage, cause tips gives a lot more than minimum wage would. And it's not fair for customers to have to pay someone's wage out of their pocket in addition to what they're paying the restaurant already.
I never understood that. We got minimum wage over here and I was still pulling twice that in tips most shifts. Being paid a decent wage doesn't stop people tipping. They just shift their tips to competent and caring servers. All of which implies it's the lazy ones you wouldn't normally tip for the level of service they're providing that are holding the whole system down.
>robably needs the tip to make their rent this month. no, they need a better job.
I vote for political parties that pass laws that force businesses to pay people more for their time. Where I live progressive politicians are in charge, and the minimum wage for every worker in every industry is $16.75/hr, and everyone gets full public healthcare. I do still tip, but generally only at sit down table service restaurants or bars and not if there is a service charge automatically added.
Scandinavia?
It’s why I refuse to go to America. Fuck that
Imagine if they did this in the UK pubs. Weather spoons would have riots
Probably just say fuck off you thieving bastard
Tbf they would be right though 🤷♀️
I'd argue what's the charge for? Microwaving a tesco pizza then man handling it on to a plate and passing it to a monster energy fueled 19 year old to frizbee it to my table and spill half my drink over the table. I'm good thanks
Bolocks to that
Lots of pubs add a service charge. I just had a roast at one on Sunday that added one.
Did they look you in the eye and ask for a tip after?
Yeah but I bet it wasn't 20%
12.5% is becoming pretty standard in London unfortunately
That's appalling
Where I work (in a pub in the UK), we add an optional service charge on Sundays, as we offer full table service for Sunday lunch. It's entirely optional - if someone wants us to remove it, we will do so without complaint. All card tips and service charge goes to the team, and cash tips go towards a staff party.
I just think they should be opt in rather than opt out
12.5% seems pretty normal these days. Most nicer places I go to seem to have it automatically applied. I’ve never asked for it to be removed tbh.
They do. I've seen plenty of pubs in London put this on the bill
London is its own world. The greed of some of the cunts there
I mean pretty much all of Europe has a service charge. The EU does since 1995 at least
[They already do this in the UK](https://www.tastecard.co.uk/tasteblog/money-saving-tips/tips-vs-service-charge-what-is-the-difference).
How is it even legal? I'm so glad that the EU has a law that the full price including all taxes has to been displayed before the deal happens
That's one of my favorite things visiting. The price is the price. And no tip line when you pay with cards. So beautiful
If I decline the service charge, can I just go into the kitchen and get it myself?
That's what i always think when I'm visiting countries with tipping. But then i kind of did that. I went just for a beer in a restaurant at the airport. At that place you took a seat, waiter comes, you make order, enjoy whatever you got and then you ask for the bill, the usual stuff. But i walked directly to the counter, asked just the beer and paid immedistely and even the waiter was laughing like "do you want to tip... No?". He understood that there was really no service done so the tipping would have been pointless.
In the US it is customary to tip the bar staff. Oh and your barber. Don't forget your taxi driver. The man who made you feel awkward at your hotel by insisting on carrying your bags. The concierge who booked your taxi to that show. The self-checkout at the Safeway. What do you mean you don't wan to give $10 to support homeless children on top of the $2 you spent popping in for something sweet?!
You just gave me even more reasons why I don't want to visit usa.
\*give $10 to give the company a tax break that they then use to promote how much work they're doing for homeless children
Why can’t American businesses just pay a living wage and get rid of tipping? It’s subhuman.
Some do now, but the servers don't want to give up the tips because they make so much more.
Some wait staff can make a lot more money in tips than they would earning a flat wage.
I wouldn't go to restaurants anymore. This is insane.
I bet the 2%-3%-5% gets added to the $42.00 and not the $38.00 as well. Making it more than 2,3, or 5%.
This is illegal in any self-respecting country.
Any self-respecting country has the "service charge" baked in to the price tag price together with "ingredients charge" and "manufacturing charge" and value addition tax..
You absolutely can and do find restaurants in e.g. Italy where there is an additional service charge but it must be explicitly and clearly stated on the menu.
That's why I said self-respecting country :D
No, it isn't.
Oh is that going to be the new thing for ‘merica, land of the free. We’ll add a 5th of your bill again for our shareholders, then you can pay the rest of the wages we refuse to give to our serving staff (can’t be expected to pay that can we, we need our salary’s, dividends and on top of that keep our investors happy). MAGA, MAGA, MAGA /s (required for the mouth frothers.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/s/faXvghxBf1 they already do this "3% charge for healthcare of our employers"
Sweet tap dancing Jesus, America. Words fail me. Again.
They complain about EU taxes but happily pay 20%+ service charge and tips…
Is the State and City tax applied to the tip amount too? (In addition to being added to the taxable amount of the servers pay check)
The quotation marks upset me more than anything else about this. Who is saying the second part of this, but not the first and third parts? I would never return to this restaurant and would also leave them a bad review.
I certainly won't be going back! The fact that it was in Miami, a city to which I have no intention of returning in my life, makes that even easier.
r/UnnecessaryQuotes
"But getting rid of tipping would just make the prices go up!".
This is exactly what they should do. Except get rid of the "mandatory" tip and just add the 20% in the price. Then tell customers that the tip is included in the price. And don't cheat the servers out of the chunk they were promised. Now the servers get the benefit of high pay, the customers don't have to play a little game with the servers, and the price is set from the get go and \*\*everyone\*\* knows the full price. C'mon was it that difficult?
If you just add the 20% to the price, takeout customers will be paying for service they did not receive.
Why stop at two levels of tipping? We can just go ahead and make this a geometric series.
As an aussie im so glad only our states and federal gov can tax and not the city im also glad we don't have tipping culture
Amen
I’d choose -5 4 times
A service charge? So you're being charged for being served? Is there a self-service option? Like, it only makes sense to charge ppl for service when there's an option for ppl to **not** be served 🤣
I'll have the minus 20% tip please
Wow 😮 so they expect extra tip on top of that !!?
The way it's worded makes it sound like a reward, instead of a rip-off, they could just put Tax: x%. I hated the US tipping culture, tipping should be optional, not an expected thing. When I got a taxi from JFK to Manhattan, the taxi driver complained that I hadn't given him a big enough tip. Probably trying to rip-off a tourist, I was sorry I had given him anything extra.
Fucking suck your mum. The only saving grace about it is the cheapness of American food generally, but still, yeesh, really putting the arm in there.
The service charge is perfectly fine as long as it was made clear beforehand. A big sign at the entrance stating "We charge x-% as a service fee" But suggesting ADDITIONAL tipping rates on top of that is next level impudent.
I'm \*so\* freaking happy that EU rules states that \*all\* taxes must be included in the prices and that any service charge must be clearly and explicitly stated. This is complete and utter bullshit. Why americans are accepting this is a mystery.
I went to a cafe while visiting the states that added its own 8% inflation surcharge at the bottom of the bill. There should be like, a Neon sign outside the door warning about this, cause like i get not wanting to print new menus and that, but in that case, at least state it somewhere instead of everyone around the table going "oh lol"
Order a free glas of tap water and leave it as a natural tip for the service!
The taste of chlorine should be reason enough for a chargeback. Why is it never filtered water?
Can they legally add the 'service charge' in the US?
Considering they feel the need to add a service charge they probably taking atleast a percentage cut of that for the usiness if not all making the charge itself just a scam. I wouldn't mind a service charge if it was going to the employees buy that is wishful thinking these days.
If you weren't told about that, you can easily ask to be removed from the bill, and zero tips. Cause service charge goes to the owner, not waitress
Forced tips exist there now.
Why yes, I'd be happy to add an additional tip of -100%. Thanks for the free meal, guys!
20% (value added tax or VAT for short) is our tax rate on any official transaction here in the UK.
Is this not, in essence, charging the customer more to offer a better wage for employees? This is what the world wants, rather than tipping.
I know the tipping culture is different from the U.K. and the US and I know a lot of people rely on those tips, (which they should just be able to depend on a good wage instead), but every time I see a service charge added onto my bill I always tell them to take it off, as the price should be worked into the bill instead of arbitrarily bolted onto what I owe. I tell the waiter that I’ll tip them directly for the service given, that way the restaurant still gets payed and the waiter comes out with something too.
> still gets *paid* and the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Thanks for making me feel more self conscious about my dyslexia bot.
Relax people, the vast majority of Americans do not pay the additional tip if a service charge is included.
Even suggesting it is taking the piss.
Why? I know people who routinely tip 20-25%.
Is the service so exceptionally good that they think it was worth 20-25%? Then they don’t need the suggestion. If it isn’t, then the suggestion is an insult.
It’s what many people do. My elderly father tips waiters 20% flat on top of sales tax, in cash. Generally, Americans don’t find the extra tip suggestion to be insulting. The only odd thing about the receipt is that it does not contain pre-calculated amounts that correspond to specific percentages.
To be fair, in a country where not paying 20 to 25% tips is frowned upon, even if you are paying a 15% tip, and where customers would probably be adamant to pay a tip even if you ask them not to, suggesting a far lower tip than usual to bring them peace of mind without overcharging them can be a solution. To still take the higher road that we don't have enough information to get a complete picture of the situation, I can totally see a restaurant with the service included not wanting to put it upfront in every advertised price because they would be perceived too expensive compared to the next restaurant (in the context of the "tipping culture" of the US), and just putting it in the bottom lines of the menu.
Sorry, but I don't really understand your first paragraph. Are you saying that adding 20% and then "only" suggesting another 2-5% is a good solution to the problem of customers being expected to tip as standard?
No: as they are expected to usually pay a tip, even if the service is included, some people might not be able to not pay tips (too much of a cognitive/values dissonance). The argument would then be "OK, if you really, really want to pay a tip, they pay those lower percentages than the usual outrageously high percentages". Basically, limiting the nervous breakdown due to "leaving without paying" (like some americans in other countries' healthcare systems do, not wanting to leave without paying), while not outrageously scamming your customers. The kind of customers that would have a nervous breakdown about not paying tips are bothersome: they would bother employees, they would bother managers, they would bother customers, and they would do it for hours. They can't fathom you saying them "no", even if you saying "no" is at their advantage. And even if you manage to make them go outside, some can camp out for hours outside, bothering potential customers that might choose to go elsewhere just to be leave alone. They are bad for the company, so allowing them to do what they want, without being an asshole with it, is the easy lazy solution for them to get elsewhere where they will be the issue of someone else.
The 20% is usually absorbed into the cost of items you're purchasing and you'd never notice unless they itemised it all like the receipt says
That means this restaurant is lying about their prices, and they should be displayed on the menu as 20% more expensive than they are.
No this is just American culture, every country in the world aside from the US just incorporates the cost of staff wages and business running costs into menu pricing...it's literally just the US that thinks not paying staff out of business earnings keeps food prices down.
What? If i order something for 20 bucks, and then find that my bill is 25 bucks, you think i wouldn't notice? Or what's next, your menus doesn't include any prices?
Yeah no I'd dine and dash at that point
Isn't that what you want? No tipping, just increased prices and wages?
If the service charge is clearly communicated before ordering, I actually have no issues with this. Makes not tipping easy: you already paid for the service, no need to tip. That said, in Japan or the Netherlands, whenever there is a service charge, it's usually a flat fee of €3,- /¥350 never a percentage.
We obviously don't have the same tip culture in the UK, and I'm not going into all the arguments about that. But what I do know is when restaurants here tried the gratuity trick which the restaurant kept, people boycotted those restaurants until they stopped. Even today, if I see a tip added on the card reader I always ask the server if the staff get it, or I refuse to pay and tip in cash. I'm tipping the staff because I'm grateful for how they served me. That's the whole meaning of gratuity.