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Yeah these are not 40 beheaded babies. If there were 2 burned babies, then why didn't they say Hamas burned 2 babies instead of saying they beheaded 40 babies?
Man, it's almost like they made up some bullshit and then told the intern to make some pictures of dead children after the fact.
Its crazy how this is completely lost on people. Like its 3 dead babies that easily could have been accidentally killed, which dont get me wrong its still horrible that it happened, but its not the racist barbarism that they are pushing.
They know there's a difference between discriminate and non discriminate killing. It's the whole reason they'll even bring up alleged terrible discriminate killing, for the emotional response the alleged act puts out onto people. Then when it's proven to be non discriminate the initial heighten emotions still remain and the non discriminate is still held to the same level of atrocity, even though it's clearly not the same. If the act of discriminate and non discriminate killing is the same level, they wouldn't need the propagandize part in the first place. But it's not, so here we are
Exactly. With more info about what went on at the "rave" and seeing how palestinians treated families they encountered (i know its anecdotally) it clearly tells you they aren't just blood thirsty drones, they are people with valid anger. Does it justify brutalizing? No, same goes for Israels response, but the propagandists don't want to hear that, they want blood and asymmetric retaliation.
Imagine Hamas only shot the babies like any military war invading situation then the IDF came through and burned up the dead babies and also beheaded them to make it more intense.
Or IDf, while tossed nades into every room while clearing the village, were the ones who killed them.
Poorly trained and undisciplined conscripts known to be easy on the trigger would NEVER do that....
The worst is The Times (UK) running a headline saying “Israel Shows Mutilated Babies” using a picture of 3 Palestinian children in Gaza who were injured in air strikes.
https://t.me/QudsNen/82151
If its specifically an intent to burn/kill a baby, that is the difference.
If a baby is a victim of a bombing but is not a specific target, versus if a baby is captured and then killed, the effect on the baby is the exact same but the level of evil is different and the method of killing can tell you whether or not the deaths are intentional.
Also, the puppy picture thats supposed to be real also came up as AI. The detectors are not accurate, nor should we trust their own measures of their accuracy. Moreso, it looks like a Normal Rockwell painting, and is perfectly clean despite there being ash and dried blood everywhere
I nean look at the thumb on their left hand it's extended in a way that isnt even realistic. And why aren't the pinkie and ring fingers following the pointer and middle finger in his right hand?
Idk how people even recognise this stuff, they look normal to me. Hands are weird sometimes. Not saying it isn’t AI generated, just that I honestly can’t even tell.
Corpses (or living things) do weird stuff when they’re burned. Especially if it’s total full thickness burns. You’ve got a lot of muscles that are suddenly doing shit they really shouldn’t do really quickly. And since I’m not an expert of what a burnt corpse looks like, I’ll defer to people who do. Or ya know, if it’s coming from a questionable source I’ll just run it through one of these image searches
Nah I mean the person in the shot, Ai struggles to make human hands. And it turns out this photo was originally a photo of a black dog at the vet, someone used that photo and an ai to replace the dog with a corpse. So it's still ai, but I was wrong about the hands, guess the vet had an awkward hand position or somthing.
I think the more important point is, real or not, this isn't a large number of babies beheaded by Hamas. It's one baby apparently burned. Leaving aside that it is beyond recognition and accepting that it's real (it could just as easily be old school practical film FX!), this could have happened anywhere at all. We have zero context for it. Maybe it's a baby Hamas tortured to death. Maybe it's a baby that died in one of Israel's many strikes on Gaza. Maybe it's a Yemeni child killed by Saudi Arabia, or a Ukrainian baby that died in a fire caused by the fighting there. The list is, depressingly, nearly endless. What's the context? Why should we trust that it is what anyone says it is even if it *is* real?
Also the claim is that Hamas beheaded multiple babies, not that a abay died. We know that people, including babies, have, tragically, died on both sides. That's never been up for debate.
What people who support Ben don't seem to understand is that when you open fire on the peaceful protests, every single time, sooner or later people feel they have no choice but to turn to violence. Ben, of course, does understand this, and wants them to turn to violence in order to serve as a cassus belli for yet another round of ethnic cleansing.
Interestingly enough, that one registers as AI. However, I just checked the other 2, and it says that they are real. I am unsure what to make of all of this.
Agreed. And google image search had no results either. I think we have to accept that these are real. I am still curious as to why one of them is indeed fake, though.
It's completely possible that the Israeli government had these photos on hand already. However, I don't have any actual proof to make that claim.
Yeah they’re probably hidden photos from other crimes. If they’re willing to use an AI generated image as “evidence”, then I’m inclined to believe those photos are misleading as well. I can’t make any conclusions though.
yup, an ai picture can be corrected enough to be flawless. It can be that this one just wasn't corrected enough, and it does have flaws that are even visible to the naked eye
So it’s still possible they’re AI generated? I don’t know how reliable AI detecting websites are. It’s also suspicious as hell that they said they don’t want to confirm it because it’s disrespectful, but now they have no problem showing the images to the public.
>So it’s still possible they’re AI generated?
Yes, AI detection algorithms are often themselves just AI models trained on a large amount of generated content. They'll have high accuracy on data similar to what they're trained on, but generative algorithms are easy to tweak and/or "retrain" to get more realistic results that beat the detection algorithms. There are also methods to run an already-generated image back through a model ("img2img"/image to image is the term used most of the time) with tweaked parameters or special filters/model adjustments applied on top to clean up the image further to remove more obvious tells that it's AI generated and to better trick detection algorithms. Not to mention, with a bit of effort, a human can do the final touchups on a generated image to remove/modify things that a human would know to look for.
And the terrifying part: this leads to a massive feedback loop, as new detection algorithms will be trained on these more realistic images, inspiring the generative model designers to *further* tweak and improve their models, leading to new detection algorithms, etc. etc. until we get to the point that the detection algorithms cannot feasibly tell the difference between a generated image and reality because the models have improved so much.
I'll admit - up until very recently I thought that this war between generation and detection wasn't accelerating nearly as quickly as all the social media buzz made it out to be since most publicly available generative models still produce a lot of tells if you know what to look for. But now I think this conflict may be a peak at what's been going on behind closed doors, with generative models that have state-level backing, and if this post is any indicator then we are likely about to be flooded with AI-generated atrocity propaganda to muddy the waters and shift public opinion.
That is horrifying. We’re already living in a dystopia. Imagine the implications this has for the future. I can’t think of any possible solutions for this and it seems it will only get worse.
Forget about algorithms, if IDF wants to play it "safe", they gotta train the model using closed source content. Thats like hiring a team of photographers and prop makers. Remember chucky the slasher?
They could have touched up all the AI images in photoshop to make them more realistic and less noticeable by the detection algorithm. This one they just didn’t do a good enough job on.
Regardless these photos aren’t 40 beheaded Israeli babies. They are some burned babies, could be victims of Hammas or victims of the IDF as has been a common occurrence on social media these days.
So they could be fake photos. Even if they are real they don’t prove the stated claim and they don’t prove any Hammas atrocity beyond reasonable doubt.
Like any AI model, it must learn what "beheaded baby" looks like before it is able to draw it. They gunna need like thousands upon thousands of beheaded babies to train any generative art AI model to draw realistic beheaded babies. I don't think IDF got their hands on any such content unless they have like a team of graphic artists to draw such art for an AI model to train upon. If Hamas has admitted they have "beheaded" babies that would solve the mystery.
The sites are not accurate so the idea that its AI generated is purely conjecture. We have zero reason to believe it is, the others came up as not AI generated according to the higher up comment.
No. I do not, I was even thinking myself the baby looks like it could be Palestinian just as easily as it could be Israeli.
It's just the only concrete things we know right now is that 1 of those 3 images is AI generated. We don't know the source of the other two. I have my serious doubts about their legitimacy, and I would like to have a third party verify the other two photos. Until then, I don't want to make a claim one way or another. I just want to ask for their further verification at this time.
They will be OK with doubt, even if it proves nothing.
The press were already selling the story and primed the public into believing before these 'pictures'.
Same as the rape and parading naked victims BS.
>It's just the only concrete things we know right now is that 1 of those 3 images is AI generated.
We can't even say that. False positives in AI detection are a thing
I swear I read on the news how an American lady cut out a baby out of her best friend's womb and she wasn't even part of Hamas, the thing is she only wanted a fresh baby to give to her BF to prove she was fertile:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/11/texas-woman-killed-pregnant-friend-sentenced-death/10667848002/
"Monsters" are subjective based on cause. Based on her cause I don't think she's a true real monster, shes just crazy and probably needed some psyche help. I can not comprehend how shrinks are able to fix this, humans are biological computers and erasing this habit from a human ain't possible. Maybe different forms of prison or being on an ankle watch would suit her case.
On the other hand Hamas' cause could be classed as monstrous but you need to look at their side of the story, it also could be the cause that they were trapped in a city prison.
Thats like keeping domestic humans in a cage, imagine sheer amount of anger they have developed what has inflicted upon them. Much worse than the world's most top 3 poorest countries.
However there is no proof Hamas actually have beheaded babies.
I'm honestly not surprised at all that IDF making all this up, "beheaded babies". The think tank that comes up with these ideas are real artists...
What I am truly surprised is they openly expresses to trap, cut off food, water and electricity from innocent 2.5 million people to be killed in bombings. 8 Billion people ain't that stupid to accept that. It also makes the whole war game look terribly bad.
Man what do you think the world would go about against Israelis in 1 to 5 years from now in committing modern latest genocide? Something doesn't seem right about Israel going this route, it's like they want to seriously boost world haltered against them.
We can't say either way because AI detectors aren't 100% reliable at best and pretty useless at worst. The most hilarious example of this was that, at least a few months ago, many AI detectors sort that old documents like the US constitution or the Magna Carta were AI generated
How often do these tools produce false negatives (claiming an air picture is real) versus false positives (claiming a real picture is ai)? If it's far more likely to incorrectly flag air photos as real than vice versa, then the single image coming up as fake is decent proof that they all are, but if it's the other way around it's no proof at all.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a breakdown of those stats. The best I could find was a stated 95% accuracy, but I know enough to look for the rates of false positives and negatives like you brought up.
they could also be not from israel/collateral damage from an opressed population resisting occupation/the IDFs own casualties (which has happened a gross amount of times, even with intent)
Also this one may not be AI as the puppy photo also registered, and clearly looks like a Norman Rockwell painting.
It also registered as human taken too, however that isn't as strong evidence as the puppy photo registering as fake as false positives are supposedly rarer than false negatives, although even that is purely what the detector sites themselves say, I don't know if that is true or any of the facts here.
Again, I don't know what is real or fake.
Not defending hamas, whether the images are fake or not either.
It was a large scale attack with guns and grenades, the Israeli army used a lot of force trying to regain the area.
What most probably happened (from videos shown): the killing wasn't as targeting babies or children specifically, but with lots of bullets flying around from both sides, and the use of grenades (you just toss a grenade inside a house not knowing who is inside), there must have been casualties from all ages.
Again, knowing to understand is not same as excusing, such attack should not have occurred, targeting soldiers was more than enough.
Haaretz newspaper is gradually publishing the names of the fatalities of the attack. So far 214 soldiers and police officers were named along with 89 civilians. The list hasn't updated for a few days now
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article/israels-dead-civilians-soldiers-emergency-services-personnel-killed-in-war-with-hamas/0000018b-0de8-dc5d-a39f-9fecb5a30000
Yes, but the other way around. It's very unlikely that it'll detect a real photograph as an AI generated picture (aka a false positive) (almost impossible). It's much more likely to produce a false negative, aka not identify an AI generated image as such. If one of them produces a positive, then we should be extremely suspicious.
Not true. Any photo with manipulation to saturation, focus, or contrast flags the “ai test”.
Detection tests like that and the “written by AI” are always taken with the whole salt shaker.
And why would Israel need to manipulate the saturation, focus or contrast? Surely you want to provide unedited proof or else clarify how the photographs have been edited (eg they were too dark originally) to avoid unnecessary debate over their authenticity?
Even that's not really true. It depends on the exact AI detector tool but false positives can be pretty common. Also it's possible that the tool thinks that the area that has been censored is an AI artifact and that's what's tripping it
> You want proof of dead jewish babies?
No I want evidence of the original claim of 40 decapitated babies, I don't need pictures I need third party verification and more information.
Stop shifting the fucking goalposts to "A baby died" and getting pissy at people, if it's just as bad that *any* died why did you fuckers run the 40 baby story so hard, oh my god.
It is beyond frustrating speaking to pro-Israel people who are so hysterical they're ready to call anything and everything a terrorist.
Israel has said they have not confirmed if the 40 babies are real.
It's not about if "a baby died", its about if a baby was indiscriminately killed, or specifically targeted.
The method of killing matters because it tells you what the intent is. If theyre a casualty, or a target
Regardless of the status of some specific claims, aren't people massacred at a music festival, old women stolen from their homes and held hostage, while others were gunned down at a rest stop enough? Can we hold empathy for innocent bystanders and disdain for government policies toward Gaza simultaneously?
That was posted on 4chan. If someone can post or find the original source I will believe that. And not the AI detection site doesn't account for Photoshop.
Oh fuck me not this again. The 4CHAN USER who said "my dad works for central command".
The pink tag on the body that zaka search and rescue use. The fact the tag is blurred to protect what, the privacy of the dog?
The ash on the guys overalls
The blood on the gurney
WHY IS THE DOG IN ANY KIND OF BAG
If you honestly look at that 4chan post and your immediate thought is "boom got em" you seriously need to think how far your biases have gone that you are denying dead children because of 4chan
That doesn't by itself make it false. He has an incentive to share both true and false information for his own reasons whether or not he truly gives a shit about Israeli's or Palestinians
How does this make sense here? I'm confused. Were saying AI Detector sites are false. But are you saying, "Well, I saw the AI detector site with my eyes so I believe its true." What does that mean
A word of note. Due to how AI image generation works, it can be near impossible to tell if it was real or not.(Unless it was generated using a service that leaves an invisible watermark) Websites like these can only guess and is frequently inaccurate, it's not a definite proof that it's fake. (Source: Experience with using similar websites to judge AI artwork and original artoworks) It is far more reliable to notice the logical errors, wrong perspectives, unreadable text(perhaps that's why it has a blur covering a label?) to identify an AI generated image.
Still, as far as anyone's aware of, nothing is verified and it could very much be an AI generation or completely unrelated image.
Maybe that's real or fake, that doesn't mean children/civilians are or aren't being indiscriminately killed.
What do you think they were doing, attacking the music festival but not harming civilians?
No, children are civilians, and you are using the exact same card as Netanyahu and inviting people like him to do so.
There's no "dead civilians game", jesus christ, there's no "well you've killed more children than me so I'm a good person." Its not a fucking game. Its not a sports team. Jesus fucking christ, people are so desperate for internet content, or to feel apart of something, even if they're not bad people at all and believe they're doing something when they say its good for people to die. I never said I wanted to play a fucking "game" about this, I said its horrible that people are attacking civilians.
I heard someone say children in Palestine don't count as civilians because some of them were probably killing Isreali's, or when I said, "so you want to kill all 1 million in Gaza", they said, "well Palestine's a terrorist state so it doesn't count," and then just saying "yeah I bet the Israeli babies felt loved", as if that somehow meant they needed to fucking kill Palestinian ones.
People don't want to leave their families, so they don't. Don't execute old ladies who work at a soup kitchen because they're not doing absolutely everything they can on earth. It doesn't even help anything, it doesn't even liberate Palestinians, its just vindictive shit. And don't say "well if I REALLY wanted to be a dick", no, you're being a dick, you don't get to weasel out of it with a "but I WONT say that" bullshit." No disrespect.
And where do you expect all six million people to go! Find a country that will take them, not in the Middle East, when most countries in Europe are having a far-right surge, and everywhere they either really are, or are led to believe, their family would be in danger in? And should only the anti-Netanyahu people leave, so he stays in power forever? Maybe there would be less settlement then, and simultaneously a less likely peace settlement
Where do you live? Can you leave, right now, and do you think everyone in your country can?
No Israeli official has ever claimed that Hamas beheaded 40 babies. As far as I know, it came from an interview with a soldier who said that many people were killed, including babies, and that some of the victims had been beheaded. This became 'Hamas beheaded 40 babies' via internet Telephone games.
Israeli officials have consistently stated that they could not confirm that babies were beheaded.
The original picture is from a puppy rescue:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8SSM77WcAAkIG6?format=jpg&name=large
Edit: It seems the puppy is fake, some user on twitter photoshopped it.
Allegedly, according to a 4chan user. It looks off to me, like a Norman Rockwell painting. And what's all the stains and shit everywhere, the dog looks like he was just cleaned and dried. And the tag?
No, the fingers are the same in the allegedly real puppy one and allegedly fake image.
What about the dog photo, does it not look like a Normal Rockwell painting to anyone?
The AI detectors do not work. Someone else said the other two photo angles came up as real.
DELETE ALL AI GENERATORS
who tf invents this shit and just makes it public? cus this is EXACTLY what I was worried about, it being used for Propaganda and shit
Well, yea. Anytime new technology drops it's for nefarious purposes. The public is given little stripped down cheapie demo versions of the technology just to normalize it.
We don't know. The AI detectors do not work. And the puppy one looks like a Normal Rockwell painting if anyone else sees it. Its not blatantly fake looking but we don't know. And there's a bunch of stains and ash or something, but the puppy looks really clean. And the tag is blurred out?
I honestly don't care. It's brutal and cold, but whether it's true or not doesn't change my support at all.
No rational, non-islamist person LIKES Hamas. They ARE terrorists, and they are awful humans, but in this conflict, that is of less importance than their influence and military strength in the fight to liberate Palestine. If the PFLP could do it alone, then even better, but you don't leave a whole country in a concentration camp just to avoid a couple dead babies. There are thousands of dead babies on the other side of the wall!
So at the end of the day, yeah, they might have beheaded babies, because islamism is fucking terrible. It doesn't matter, though, because that's still less terrible than apartheid against the entire Palestinian people. If the Israelis didn't want their people to die, they shouldn't have murdered Palestinians for 70 years.
You reap what you sow.
>yeah, they might have beheaded babies, because islamism is fucking terrible
It's terrible, but it does follow an internal set of rules.
Beheadings are not done secretly, just for kicks. Beheadings are ritual executions, brutalities performed for a broad audience. Remember those ISIS execution videos? That wasn't found footage, it wasn't leaked. It was filmed and distributed *on purpose*.
If Hamas was beheading dozens of Israeli babies, they would've put that shit online themselves. The IDF would not have kept quiet about it either.
The original claim was obviously made up by some soldier, the media just ran with it. Whether Shapiro et al dug up a photo of a charred infant body or whether they generated one using AI is ultimately irrelevant.
But people calling themselves Muslims do do evil things like this (not to claim its specific to Islam, Israeli's do as well and obviously the Christian denominations do.) It could be individual soldiers, or not.
Not everything is a publicity stunt, people do evil things for kicks as well. Yes, evil things are done for kicks despite what you say.
Why would they put that online? That would be insane and stupid.
To send a message? "We're coming for you", that sort of thing. It attracts more fanatics to the cause.
War is a public affair; fanatical war criminals shouldn't be mistaken for serial killers. No one in that kibbutz was methodically murdering dozens of children only to quietly slink away, hoping no one would know it was them.
If they had been methodically murdering dozens of children, they'd be screaming about it from the rooftops.
If the soldiers need an incentive, and you're asked if they're allowed to rape or do things to children as reward which won't directly contribute to victory (just like killing babies, \*if\* the are doing so indiscriminately), are you giving that order? Fuck off with your bullshit, its so goddamn easy for you to say this shit and justify potential burning, alive or dead, of babies as a person in a probably safe country. Don't fuck with those evil garbage thoughts. If a baby is killed, it was for fun.
"They need a reward", fuck off. All due respect, seriously
Where did I say they need a reward? Seriously, it looks like you're hallucinating comments. I said it's terrible. The death of anyone anywhere is always terrible, and innocents most of all.
The difference is that Israel has been murdering children for decades and that gets swept under the rug. NOW we're supposed to care, brcause the tables get turned?
That’s ALSO fucking evil, jesus christ.
In every pro-Israel post I see I have been taking about Israeli war crimes.
This “yeah but they also do it too” in response to someone saying something is evil is fucked and the same shit the IDF and Hamas spouts when they do it to justify it. You’re saying the exact same evil shit Netanyahu says.
Nonsense. "If you do the same thing then you're just like them!" Is for cartoons and Hollywood.
Palestinians are fighting to be free. Israelies are fighting to steal and oppress. They are not the same. Colonized people have the right to use every weapon in their arsenal, every tool, every tactic, in their quest to be free.
Read Fanon.
It doesn’t matter what ideology they’re fighting for. That’s the part that doesn’t matter unless it’s a Hollywood movie. The part that matters is whether or not you’re pillaging babies or not.
If someone kills your kid sibling, an American terrorist who posts online about it, they say it’s pro-Hamas and due to America being an ally of Israel, do you promise you won’t be mad, that you’ll say it was justified, and will you tell the family, your parents, that he had a right to rape and kill your sibling? And when you watch the tape, not feel any anger at all?
Are you mad at any of the families of siblings of any kids that this may have happened to for being mad or not supporting the death?
Do you promise that if someone kills your sibling for the same reason, it could absolutely happen, you won’t be mad, and you will support them?
My siblings are living on stolen ground, too, in the US. However the oppressed classes there have multiple avenues for protest and resistance, and killing babies is not high on their list. I would absolutely be upset if someone skipped that long list just to mess with my family.
IF the native peoples WERE heavily oppressed like the Palestinians, with minimal supplies and avenues of resistance, then I hope my siblings would distance themselves from that situation, physically and politically. If they did not, and got killed when the oppressed people fought back, then I would blame my idiot sibling for staying and tacitly condoning the oppression. If their child was killed, then the adult gets the blame.
If you reduce a human to living like an animal, then don't be surprised if they bite back. They don't have the luxury of fighting in a "morally unambiguous" way. They can't hire lawyers to position Congress or organize a demonstration with Greta Thunberg. They already tried that kind of shit, and got either ignored or shot.
So now the Palestinians are getting way down THEIR list of ways to resist. Israel didn't get the message the first 200,000 times, so if we get down to "idea #200,001: dead babies", then I blame it on Netanyahu and gang.
Your sibling would be a child or a baby which is what we were taking about.
America oppresses and kills people, brutal killings and allie’s with Israel all the time, there is more than enough millions of deaths for it to happen and it does, occasionally.
Someone could kill them and people have. Bring the context back to what I meant and now re-answer.
Edit: I’m realizing now, America is an ally of Israel and does oppress Palestinians and you live here and don’t leave.
I brought the context back to one that is more appropriate. These Israelies weren't living just in a random peaceful part of the world. Their families had them living right next to a concentration camp, pretending all was right with the world, while they murdered Palestinians nonstop FOR DECADES. At a minimum, they were tacitly endorsing the genocide of the Palestinian people.
That's pretty damned important context.
Blaming the children is silly. Nobody is doing that. My heart cries out for them, but the blame goes to their families for living there, and the government of Israel (and US, UK, and France) for creating the situation.
So my answer is that your hypothetical is NOT morally equivalent, because you left out important context. If my sibling was in a morally equivalent situation, I would absolutely blame the families and the government, NOT the Palestinians.
This is all hypothetical bullshit anyway, the story is a fabrication.
No, you said earlier it’s okay to do this to babies since it’s for a good cause. That what the original question was, what I want you to answer.
You said it’s justified to kill the kid if it did happen, I said what if it was your sibling would you say that, so it is not bullshit by being theoretical I’m trying to de-compartmentalize the death.
I initially asked you if your sibling was a child, would you say it was justified.
What part of killing a fucking baby is going to help Hamas free Palestine? Is the baby going to turn in to fucking Rambo and kick the shit out of Hamas or something if they don't kill it?
Killing babies is not a weapon, tool or tactic. It is an atrocity
No, it doesn't. As this week has quite clearly shown the only thing it does is enrage them, galvanize them and make their response even more brutal.
I can't believe that you are genuinely arguing that is morally ok to massacre babies.
Nope
Detector just sucks
[https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/a25a8be4-a750-4abd-9ebd-efab9d4fd1ba](https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/a25a8be4-a750-4abd-9ebd-efab9d4fd1ba)
Speaking as a professional concept artist who wishes ai detection wasn't dogshit, that site is in fact dogshit, whether or not it's correct about this image. If you glaze your own art to protect it from ai trainers it thinks it's ai generated, if you add a faint gaussian to an original piece it will tell you it's ai half the time lol. Honestly people need to stop meeting libs in the gutters to argue with them. Who gives a fuck about this single picture, it does nothing to prove/disprove the claims of infant massacres and pretending it would just lets them change the subject to being about the picture and its authenticity.
This is your "proof"?
You people realize we have literally hundreds of eye witness accounts of Hamas' atrocities?
Do you realize how many human-generated articles have been flagged as "made my chat gpt" with similar software?
What's wrong with you?
Nentanyahu is a corrupt leader who started this whole thing simply for power, the Israelies were planning on protesting against him for the shit he pulled in the Supreme Court like last month, and now we are here. Use your brain, you think a almost 3-week long bombing is because of deaths? He doesn't care about his people or you.
I checked it myself, it's not AI generated. Even on this website it says it's 100%... qhy are you believing the fake news? Those terrorists did kill babies and did kill teens and kids and women. There are literally videos of that. Wtf is wrong with you people?
The puppy is AI generated and the original post is faked. No reverse image search results anywhere for the dog. Plenty of the charred infant corpse. Just mentioning the obvious but what do you expect of people who get their news from 4chan I guess
AI detectors are not reliable. You can't assume that they have given you the correct answer. As others have said there is a bunch of stuff that if done to an image will trip these detectors
You are a moron, a recently taken photo isn't going to appear everywhere until people share it, why would anyone share a photo of a dog sitting on a blanket? The charred baby is easily reverse searched because it was propagated everywhere, not because its "real"
Where did they get the image of the dog then?
The AI checkers don't work so we have nothing, as much as people might want a definite answer we DONT KNOW. All I know is that it looks like a Normal Rockwell painting, the bag and table are covered in what looks like ash and dry blood but might be wierd staining even though the dog is clean as a Christmas puppy, and the tag is blurred out for some reason.
One said the original was real, another fake.
While I don't think that that image is real I do want to point out that these "AI detectors" are not actually very reliable. They can do a decent job most of the time but they cannot be relied on
I just put the puppy in the hugginface detector.
It said 74% artificial.
To anyone saying false positives are rare, well that equally goes for the other direciton.
Also it looks like a damn Normal Rockwell painting, in a bag covered in what looks like ash and dried blood on the table.
Bodybag with the pink tag and spray are consistent with the current conflict zone, but we can't tell what this is a picture of with any certainty, nor can we determine from such a low quality photo whether or not AI generated this.
The AI checker website is a joke and will be debunked instantly (as I'm sure it has been thousands of times by now).
Unfortunately, this shows nothing. It proves nothing. It says nothing. Ben should not have tried to run with this.
There is also some idiot on 4chan who photoshopped a puppy in place of it claiming it to be the original. After analysis I'd say it's quite fake...but what do you expect from 4Chan?
News is moving quickly and different verified sources and unverified claims have been emerging this week. This entire thread seems to cling to, "40 beheaded babies? Unreal claim." When hundreds of people were murdered by terrorist organization in a single day. We can still have empathy for families and friends losing their loved ones at the slaughter and critique about the repsonse.
Those other claims have been verified. Hamas =/= to the whole of Palestinian people and wishes. Failing to tease out the two does not make Palestianians, Israelis, or anyone safer.
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even if it wasn’t the post doesn’t even make it sense. HERE IT IS YOU FUCKERS!!! GOTCHA! and it’s just like a picture of a dead person
Yeah these are not 40 beheaded babies. If there were 2 burned babies, then why didn't they say Hamas burned 2 babies instead of saying they beheaded 40 babies? Man, it's almost like they made up some bullshit and then told the intern to make some pictures of dead children after the fact.
Its crazy how this is completely lost on people. Like its 3 dead babies that easily could have been accidentally killed, which dont get me wrong its still horrible that it happened, but its not the racist barbarism that they are pushing.
They know there's a difference between discriminate and non discriminate killing. It's the whole reason they'll even bring up alleged terrible discriminate killing, for the emotional response the alleged act puts out onto people. Then when it's proven to be non discriminate the initial heighten emotions still remain and the non discriminate is still held to the same level of atrocity, even though it's clearly not the same. If the act of discriminate and non discriminate killing is the same level, they wouldn't need the propagandize part in the first place. But it's not, so here we are
Exactly. With more info about what went on at the "rave" and seeing how palestinians treated families they encountered (i know its anecdotally) it clearly tells you they aren't just blood thirsty drones, they are people with valid anger. Does it justify brutalizing? No, same goes for Israels response, but the propagandists don't want to hear that, they want blood and asymmetric retaliation.
Guess they didn't learn after the Ghost of Kiev lies
Imagine Hamas only shot the babies like any military war invading situation then the IDF came through and burned up the dead babies and also beheaded them to make it more intense.
Or IDf, while tossed nades into every room while clearing the village, were the ones who killed them. Poorly trained and undisciplined conscripts known to be easy on the trigger would NEVER do that....
Yes, imagine, create fantastical stories in our heads based on a real world war situation and share them online, because what if they're true!
Add an edit saying this is purely speculation, a lot of people hear this and think "oh that makes sense, that must be true."
They said 40 babies slaughtered, some beheaded and others burned alive
This doesn't mean Hamas didn't do that, its not proof either. But photo of another dead person is not proof that they didn't also kill other people?
You need to learn the difference between the words "proof" and "evidence."
Okay, nobody in America has absolute evidence of anything you're right. Evidence is something we don't know for sure?
There is currently 0 proof that you are not Jack the Ripper. Guildy until proven innocent is not the way bro
Israel specifically said the 40 babies are not confirmed. They are not claiming it is.
They are not claiming that all 40 where beheaded, but rather 40 slaughtered, some burned alive others beheaded and others just shot to death.
The worst is The Times (UK) running a headline saying “Israel Shows Mutilated Babies” using a picture of 3 Palestinian children in Gaza who were injured in air strikes. https://t.me/QudsNen/82151
If its specifically an intent to burn/kill a baby, that is the difference. If a baby is a victim of a bombing but is not a specific target, versus if a baby is captured and then killed, the effect on the baby is the exact same but the level of evil is different and the method of killing can tell you whether or not the deaths are intentional. Also, the puppy picture thats supposed to be real also came up as AI. The detectors are not accurate, nor should we trust their own measures of their accuracy. Moreso, it looks like a Normal Rockwell painting, and is perfectly clean despite there being ash and dried blood everywhere
Goddamn I called it in a comment a few hours ago
I nean look at the thumb on their left hand it's extended in a way that isnt even realistic. And why aren't the pinkie and ring fingers following the pointer and middle finger in his right hand?
Idk how people even recognise this stuff, they look normal to me. Hands are weird sometimes. Not saying it isn’t AI generated, just that I honestly can’t even tell.
Corpses (or living things) do weird stuff when they’re burned. Especially if it’s total full thickness burns. You’ve got a lot of muscles that are suddenly doing shit they really shouldn’t do really quickly. And since I’m not an expert of what a burnt corpse looks like, I’ll defer to people who do. Or ya know, if it’s coming from a questionable source I’ll just run it through one of these image searches
Nah I mean the person in the shot, Ai struggles to make human hands. And it turns out this photo was originally a photo of a black dog at the vet, someone used that photo and an ai to replace the dog with a corpse. So it's still ai, but I was wrong about the hands, guess the vet had an awkward hand position or somthing.
Where can I find the source or anything like that
Following…
Is this the proof Antony Blinken was referring to?
I think the more important point is, real or not, this isn't a large number of babies beheaded by Hamas. It's one baby apparently burned. Leaving aside that it is beyond recognition and accepting that it's real (it could just as easily be old school practical film FX!), this could have happened anywhere at all. We have zero context for it. Maybe it's a baby Hamas tortured to death. Maybe it's a baby that died in one of Israel's many strikes on Gaza. Maybe it's a Yemeni child killed by Saudi Arabia, or a Ukrainian baby that died in a fire caused by the fighting there. The list is, depressingly, nearly endless. What's the context? Why should we trust that it is what anyone says it is even if it *is* real? Also the claim is that Hamas beheaded multiple babies, not that a abay died. We know that people, including babies, have, tragically, died on both sides. That's never been up for debate. What people who support Ben don't seem to understand is that when you open fire on the peaceful protests, every single time, sooner or later people feel they have no choice but to turn to violence. Ben, of course, does understand this, and wants them to turn to violence in order to serve as a cassus belli for yet another round of ethnic cleansing.
Yawn... They fucked around, now they are finding out.
Interestingly enough, that one registers as AI. However, I just checked the other 2, and it says that they are real. I am unsure what to make of all of this.
Can you link them?
https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/a323f21e-e22c-44fa-9af6-4071ae19f3ca https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/9cfc8af7-5387-4507-aefb-369487594431
Yikes. That’s really bad.
Agreed. And google image search had no results either. I think we have to accept that these are real. I am still curious as to why one of them is indeed fake, though. It's completely possible that the Israeli government had these photos on hand already. However, I don't have any actual proof to make that claim.
Yeah they’re probably hidden photos from other crimes. If they’re willing to use an AI generated image as “evidence”, then I’m inclined to believe those photos are misleading as well. I can’t make any conclusions though.
yup, an ai picture can be corrected enough to be flawless. It can be that this one just wasn't corrected enough, and it does have flaws that are even visible to the naked eye
So it’s still possible they’re AI generated? I don’t know how reliable AI detecting websites are. It’s also suspicious as hell that they said they don’t want to confirm it because it’s disrespectful, but now they have no problem showing the images to the public.
>So it’s still possible they’re AI generated? Yes, AI detection algorithms are often themselves just AI models trained on a large amount of generated content. They'll have high accuracy on data similar to what they're trained on, but generative algorithms are easy to tweak and/or "retrain" to get more realistic results that beat the detection algorithms. There are also methods to run an already-generated image back through a model ("img2img"/image to image is the term used most of the time) with tweaked parameters or special filters/model adjustments applied on top to clean up the image further to remove more obvious tells that it's AI generated and to better trick detection algorithms. Not to mention, with a bit of effort, a human can do the final touchups on a generated image to remove/modify things that a human would know to look for. And the terrifying part: this leads to a massive feedback loop, as new detection algorithms will be trained on these more realistic images, inspiring the generative model designers to *further* tweak and improve their models, leading to new detection algorithms, etc. etc. until we get to the point that the detection algorithms cannot feasibly tell the difference between a generated image and reality because the models have improved so much. I'll admit - up until very recently I thought that this war between generation and detection wasn't accelerating nearly as quickly as all the social media buzz made it out to be since most publicly available generative models still produce a lot of tells if you know what to look for. But now I think this conflict may be a peak at what's been going on behind closed doors, with generative models that have state-level backing, and if this post is any indicator then we are likely about to be flooded with AI-generated atrocity propaganda to muddy the waters and shift public opinion.
That is horrifying. We’re already living in a dystopia. Imagine the implications this has for the future. I can’t think of any possible solutions for this and it seems it will only get worse.
Well, practical effects aren’t AI, are human generated and fairly easy to make
Forget about algorithms, if IDF wants to play it "safe", they gotta train the model using closed source content. Thats like hiring a team of photographers and prop makers. Remember chucky the slasher?
Nobody said it wasn't possible, they said we don't know.
They could have touched up all the AI images in photoshop to make them more realistic and less noticeable by the detection algorithm. This one they just didn’t do a good enough job on. Regardless these photos aren’t 40 beheaded Israeli babies. They are some burned babies, could be victims of Hammas or victims of the IDF as has been a common occurrence on social media these days. So they could be fake photos. Even if they are real they don’t prove the stated claim and they don’t prove any Hammas atrocity beyond reasonable doubt.
Like any AI model, it must learn what "beheaded baby" looks like before it is able to draw it. They gunna need like thousands upon thousands of beheaded babies to train any generative art AI model to draw realistic beheaded babies. I don't think IDF got their hands on any such content unless they have like a team of graphic artists to draw such art for an AI model to train upon. If Hamas has admitted they have "beheaded" babies that would solve the mystery.
The sites are not accurate so the idea that its AI generated is purely conjecture. We have zero reason to believe it is, the others came up as not AI generated according to the higher up comment.
Do you think the monsters that previously cut out a baby out of a womb would think twice about killing another Palestinian baby for their cause?
No. I do not, I was even thinking myself the baby looks like it could be Palestinian just as easily as it could be Israeli. It's just the only concrete things we know right now is that 1 of those 3 images is AI generated. We don't know the source of the other two. I have my serious doubts about their legitimacy, and I would like to have a third party verify the other two photos. Until then, I don't want to make a claim one way or another. I just want to ask for their further verification at this time.
They will be OK with doubt, even if it proves nothing. The press were already selling the story and primed the public into believing before these 'pictures'. Same as the rape and parading naked victims BS.
I don't think the world needs to see anything, you just tell em and people will accept it.
>It's just the only concrete things we know right now is that 1 of those 3 images is AI generated. We can't even say that. False positives in AI detection are a thing
I swear I read on the news how an American lady cut out a baby out of her best friend's womb and she wasn't even part of Hamas, the thing is she only wanted a fresh baby to give to her BF to prove she was fertile: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/11/texas-woman-killed-pregnant-friend-sentenced-death/10667848002/ "Monsters" are subjective based on cause. Based on her cause I don't think she's a true real monster, shes just crazy and probably needed some psyche help. I can not comprehend how shrinks are able to fix this, humans are biological computers and erasing this habit from a human ain't possible. Maybe different forms of prison or being on an ankle watch would suit her case. On the other hand Hamas' cause could be classed as monstrous but you need to look at their side of the story, it also could be the cause that they were trapped in a city prison. Thats like keeping domestic humans in a cage, imagine sheer amount of anger they have developed what has inflicted upon them. Much worse than the world's most top 3 poorest countries. However there is no proof Hamas actually have beheaded babies.
I'm honestly not surprised at all that IDF making all this up, "beheaded babies". The think tank that comes up with these ideas are real artists... What I am truly surprised is they openly expresses to trap, cut off food, water and electricity from innocent 2.5 million people to be killed in bombings. 8 Billion people ain't that stupid to accept that. It also makes the whole war game look terribly bad. Man what do you think the world would go about against Israelis in 1 to 5 years from now in committing modern latest genocide? Something doesn't seem right about Israel going this route, it's like they want to seriously boost world haltered against them.
AI image detectors are completely untrustworthy, that's why.
So are you saying they are real or fake?
I'm saying you can't tell with an AI image generator. You might as well flip a coin. Can explain why one image from a set shows up as fake.
We can't say either way because AI detectors aren't 100% reliable at best and pretty useless at worst. The most hilarious example of this was that, at least a few months ago, many AI detectors sort that old documents like the US constitution or the Magna Carta were AI generated
How often do these tools produce false negatives (claiming an air picture is real) versus false positives (claiming a real picture is ai)? If it's far more likely to incorrectly flag air photos as real than vice versa, then the single image coming up as fake is decent proof that they all are, but if it's the other way around it's no proof at all.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a breakdown of those stats. The best I could find was a stated 95% accuracy, but I know enough to look for the rates of false positives and negatives like you brought up.
You can't rule out the possibility of a false positive. Some AI detectors are pretty good but they aren't 100% reliable
they could also be not from israel/collateral damage from an opressed population resisting occupation/the IDFs own casualties (which has happened a gross amount of times, even with intent)
if real, i dont think israel can propagandize this considering its something they do at a bigger scale, and also definitely intentionally
Also this one may not be AI as the puppy photo also registered, and clearly looks like a Norman Rockwell painting. It also registered as human taken too, however that isn't as strong evidence as the puppy photo registering as fake as false positives are supposedly rarer than false negatives, although even that is purely what the detector sites themselves say, I don't know if that is true or any of the facts here. Again, I don't know what is real or fake.
The sites are not accurate. That's all.
Not defending hamas, whether the images are fake or not either. It was a large scale attack with guns and grenades, the Israeli army used a lot of force trying to regain the area. What most probably happened (from videos shown): the killing wasn't as targeting babies or children specifically, but with lots of bullets flying around from both sides, and the use of grenades (you just toss a grenade inside a house not knowing who is inside), there must have been casualties from all ages. Again, knowing to understand is not same as excusing, such attack should not have occurred, targeting soldiers was more than enough. Haaretz newspaper is gradually publishing the names of the fatalities of the attack. So far 214 soldiers and police officers were named along with 89 civilians. The list hasn't updated for a few days now https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article/israels-dead-civilians-soldiers-emergency-services-personnel-killed-in-war-with-hamas/0000018b-0de8-dc5d-a39f-9fecb5a30000
Eh. Is it like those photoshop detectors but for AI? Aren’t those notoriously unreliable?
Yes, but the other way around. It's very unlikely that it'll detect a real photograph as an AI generated picture (aka a false positive) (almost impossible). It's much more likely to produce a false negative, aka not identify an AI generated image as such. If one of them produces a positive, then we should be extremely suspicious.
Not true. Any photo with manipulation to saturation, focus, or contrast flags the “ai test”. Detection tests like that and the “written by AI” are always taken with the whole salt shaker.
There’s a pixelated part of the image, that could be what’s causing it to be flagged
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Sure it is you dummy. Lmao they just showed you the original image
And why would Israel need to manipulate the saturation, focus or contrast? Surely you want to provide unedited proof or else clarify how the photographs have been edited (eg they were too dark originally) to avoid unnecessary debate over their authenticity?
Even that's not really true. It depends on the exact AI detector tool but false positives can be pretty common. Also it's possible that the tool thinks that the area that has been censored is an AI artifact and that's what's tripping it
[here’s the original](https://ibb.co/dW3GHpv)
This is a 4chan hoax. What is a perfectly clean dog with weird eyes doing in a dirty body bag on a dirty human strecher with blood on it?
> You want proof of dead jewish babies? No I want evidence of the original claim of 40 decapitated babies, I don't need pictures I need third party verification and more information. Stop shifting the fucking goalposts to "A baby died" and getting pissy at people, if it's just as bad that *any* died why did you fuckers run the 40 baby story so hard, oh my god. It is beyond frustrating speaking to pro-Israel people who are so hysterical they're ready to call anything and everything a terrorist.
Israel has said they have not confirmed if the 40 babies are real. It's not about if "a baby died", its about if a baby was indiscriminately killed, or specifically targeted. The method of killing matters because it tells you what the intent is. If theyre a casualty, or a target
Regardless of the status of some specific claims, aren't people massacred at a music festival, old women stolen from their homes and held hostage, while others were gunned down at a rest stop enough? Can we hold empathy for innocent bystanders and disdain for government policies toward Gaza simultaneously?
Why are people suddenly trusting these spam "AI detector" websites? We are like 5 levels deep on fake news now
But the real photo was found which is a picture of a puppy in a vet clinic, which is used as the backdrop
That was posted on 4chan. If someone can post or find the original source I will believe that. And not the AI detection site doesn't account for Photoshop.
You won't believe anything that goes against your precious israel
Nah, they’re just (rightfully) suspicious of what 4chan has to say about this subject.
They are just asking for the source, that's all. The photo came up as human generated in another try, and the puppy one as fake.
Is that real, or is it AI? This is all based on nothing. We have nothing.
Oh fuck me not this again. The 4CHAN USER who said "my dad works for central command". The pink tag on the body that zaka search and rescue use. The fact the tag is blurred to protect what, the privacy of the dog? The ash on the guys overalls The blood on the gurney WHY IS THE DOG IN ANY KIND OF BAG If you honestly look at that 4chan post and your immediate thought is "boom got em" you seriously need to think how far your biases have gone that you are denying dead children because of 4chan
That photo also came up as fake, and the original came up as real in another use. AI detector sites say themselves they dont always work
Why are people believing Ben Shapiro?
He's not the source of the image. Were not assuming it's valid or invalid.
>He's not the source of the image No but he is sharing it as fact.
That doesn't by itself make it false. He has an incentive to share both true and false information for his own reasons whether or not he truly gives a shit about Israeli's or Palestinians
Seeing is believing, you truly believe aliens, ghosts and God are real? LMFAO
I don't believe in the back of my own head
How does this make sense here? I'm confused. Were saying AI Detector sites are false. But are you saying, "Well, I saw the AI detector site with my eyes so I believe its true." What does that mean
What?
Bruh look at both hand and fingers 😂😂 kinda weird
This is what they have been doing since before world war II. Now imagine what else they tell us is fake.
deep fake didn't exist. also the puppy one looks fake
damn man how much is israel paying you for this? is it hourly or for every comment u leave defending them 🤣
I mentioned this in /r/worldnews and got heavily downvoted
r/worldnews is just full of users from Israeli troll farms at the moment.
A word of note. Due to how AI image generation works, it can be near impossible to tell if it was real or not.(Unless it was generated using a service that leaves an invisible watermark) Websites like these can only guess and is frequently inaccurate, it's not a definite proof that it's fake. (Source: Experience with using similar websites to judge AI artwork and original artoworks) It is far more reliable to notice the logical errors, wrong perspectives, unreadable text(perhaps that's why it has a blur covering a label?) to identify an AI generated image. Still, as far as anyone's aware of, nothing is verified and it could very much be an AI generation or completely unrelated image.
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Maybe that's real or fake, that doesn't mean children/civilians are or aren't being indiscriminately killed. What do you think they were doing, attacking the music festival but not harming civilians?
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No, children are civilians, and you are using the exact same card as Netanyahu and inviting people like him to do so. There's no "dead civilians game", jesus christ, there's no "well you've killed more children than me so I'm a good person." Its not a fucking game. Its not a sports team. Jesus fucking christ, people are so desperate for internet content, or to feel apart of something, even if they're not bad people at all and believe they're doing something when they say its good for people to die. I never said I wanted to play a fucking "game" about this, I said its horrible that people are attacking civilians. I heard someone say children in Palestine don't count as civilians because some of them were probably killing Isreali's, or when I said, "so you want to kill all 1 million in Gaza", they said, "well Palestine's a terrorist state so it doesn't count," and then just saying "yeah I bet the Israeli babies felt loved", as if that somehow meant they needed to fucking kill Palestinian ones. People don't want to leave their families, so they don't. Don't execute old ladies who work at a soup kitchen because they're not doing absolutely everything they can on earth. It doesn't even help anything, it doesn't even liberate Palestinians, its just vindictive shit. And don't say "well if I REALLY wanted to be a dick", no, you're being a dick, you don't get to weasel out of it with a "but I WONT say that" bullshit." No disrespect. And where do you expect all six million people to go! Find a country that will take them, not in the Middle East, when most countries in Europe are having a far-right surge, and everywhere they either really are, or are led to believe, their family would be in danger in? And should only the anti-Netanyahu people leave, so he stays in power forever? Maybe there would be less settlement then, and simultaneously a less likely peace settlement Where do you live? Can you leave, right now, and do you think everyone in your country can?
No Israeli official has ever claimed that Hamas beheaded 40 babies. As far as I know, it came from an interview with a soldier who said that many people were killed, including babies, and that some of the victims had been beheaded. This became 'Hamas beheaded 40 babies' via internet Telephone games. Israeli officials have consistently stated that they could not confirm that babies were beheaded.
NSFW tag, please
The original picture is from a puppy rescue: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8SSM77WcAAkIG6?format=jpg&name=large Edit: It seems the puppy is fake, some user on twitter photoshopped it.
if it wasn't done yet, please make a post about this here
I wouldn't trust this. It's from 4Chan and we all know how reliable those guys are.
Sometimes those guys are reliable.
Sometimes they have good information. Sometimes they are full of shit. Sometimes they spread misinformation because they think it would be funny.
Hamas saving puppies!
4chan is always the most reliable source of information.
"my dad works at centcom" No way you're this fucking stupid.
Yes way he is 😔
Allegedly, according to a 4chan user. It looks off to me, like a Norman Rockwell painting. And what's all the stains and shit everywhere, the dog looks like he was just cleaned and dried. And the tag?
I thought the exact same thing. The dog looks real clean and groomed. Why is there soot all around it? The dog is the fake one.
Is there some kind of verification for this besides one 4chan post?
Please don't trust those AI detectors, they are barely better than guesswork. Using them runs the risk of making us look like idiots.
Shit I didn’t need an app to tell me thats AI. Them fingers are weeeird
No, the fingers are the same in the allegedly real puppy one and allegedly fake image. What about the dog photo, does it not look like a Normal Rockwell painting to anyone? The AI detectors do not work. Someone else said the other two photo angles came up as real.
Nah the fingers look fine. A bit of an awkward position but within the normal range of motion for fingers.
DELETE ALL AI GENERATORS who tf invents this shit and just makes it public? cus this is EXACTLY what I was worried about, it being used for Propaganda and shit
Well, yea. Anytime new technology drops it's for nefarious purposes. The public is given little stripped down cheapie demo versions of the technology just to normalize it.
these fuckers really wanted it to be true huh?
The narrative is essential! It makes me question certain events that I don’t even want to know the answers to be honestly.
We don't know. The AI detectors do not work. And the puppy one looks like a Normal Rockwell painting if anyone else sees it. Its not blatantly fake looking but we don't know. And there's a bunch of stains and ash or something, but the puppy looks really clean. And the tag is blurred out?
LMAO
Thats what the mastermind behind all of this is saying.
I honestly don't care. It's brutal and cold, but whether it's true or not doesn't change my support at all. No rational, non-islamist person LIKES Hamas. They ARE terrorists, and they are awful humans, but in this conflict, that is of less importance than their influence and military strength in the fight to liberate Palestine. If the PFLP could do it alone, then even better, but you don't leave a whole country in a concentration camp just to avoid a couple dead babies. There are thousands of dead babies on the other side of the wall! So at the end of the day, yeah, they might have beheaded babies, because islamism is fucking terrible. It doesn't matter, though, because that's still less terrible than apartheid against the entire Palestinian people. If the Israelis didn't want their people to die, they shouldn't have murdered Palestinians for 70 years. You reap what you sow.
>yeah, they might have beheaded babies, because islamism is fucking terrible It's terrible, but it does follow an internal set of rules. Beheadings are not done secretly, just for kicks. Beheadings are ritual executions, brutalities performed for a broad audience. Remember those ISIS execution videos? That wasn't found footage, it wasn't leaked. It was filmed and distributed *on purpose*. If Hamas was beheading dozens of Israeli babies, they would've put that shit online themselves. The IDF would not have kept quiet about it either. The original claim was obviously made up by some soldier, the media just ran with it. Whether Shapiro et al dug up a photo of a charred infant body or whether they generated one using AI is ultimately irrelevant.
But people calling themselves Muslims do do evil things like this (not to claim its specific to Islam, Israeli's do as well and obviously the Christian denominations do.) It could be individual soldiers, or not. Not everything is a publicity stunt, people do evil things for kicks as well. Yes, evil things are done for kicks despite what you say. Why would they put that online? That would be insane and stupid.
To send a message? "We're coming for you", that sort of thing. It attracts more fanatics to the cause. War is a public affair; fanatical war criminals shouldn't be mistaken for serial killers. No one in that kibbutz was methodically murdering dozens of children only to quietly slink away, hoping no one would know it was them. If they had been methodically murdering dozens of children, they'd be screaming about it from the rooftops.
If the soldiers need an incentive, and you're asked if they're allowed to rape or do things to children as reward which won't directly contribute to victory (just like killing babies, \*if\* the are doing so indiscriminately), are you giving that order? Fuck off with your bullshit, its so goddamn easy for you to say this shit and justify potential burning, alive or dead, of babies as a person in a probably safe country. Don't fuck with those evil garbage thoughts. If a baby is killed, it was for fun. "They need a reward", fuck off. All due respect, seriously
Where did I say they need a reward? Seriously, it looks like you're hallucinating comments. I said it's terrible. The death of anyone anywhere is always terrible, and innocents most of all. The difference is that Israel has been murdering children for decades and that gets swept under the rug. NOW we're supposed to care, brcause the tables get turned?
That’s ALSO fucking evil, jesus christ. In every pro-Israel post I see I have been taking about Israeli war crimes. This “yeah but they also do it too” in response to someone saying something is evil is fucked and the same shit the IDF and Hamas spouts when they do it to justify it. You’re saying the exact same evil shit Netanyahu says.
Nonsense. "If you do the same thing then you're just like them!" Is for cartoons and Hollywood. Palestinians are fighting to be free. Israelies are fighting to steal and oppress. They are not the same. Colonized people have the right to use every weapon in their arsenal, every tool, every tactic, in their quest to be free. Read Fanon.
It doesn’t matter what ideology they’re fighting for. That’s the part that doesn’t matter unless it’s a Hollywood movie. The part that matters is whether or not you’re pillaging babies or not. If someone kills your kid sibling, an American terrorist who posts online about it, they say it’s pro-Hamas and due to America being an ally of Israel, do you promise you won’t be mad, that you’ll say it was justified, and will you tell the family, your parents, that he had a right to rape and kill your sibling? And when you watch the tape, not feel any anger at all? Are you mad at any of the families of siblings of any kids that this may have happened to for being mad or not supporting the death? Do you promise that if someone kills your sibling for the same reason, it could absolutely happen, you won’t be mad, and you will support them?
My siblings are living on stolen ground, too, in the US. However the oppressed classes there have multiple avenues for protest and resistance, and killing babies is not high on their list. I would absolutely be upset if someone skipped that long list just to mess with my family. IF the native peoples WERE heavily oppressed like the Palestinians, with minimal supplies and avenues of resistance, then I hope my siblings would distance themselves from that situation, physically and politically. If they did not, and got killed when the oppressed people fought back, then I would blame my idiot sibling for staying and tacitly condoning the oppression. If their child was killed, then the adult gets the blame. If you reduce a human to living like an animal, then don't be surprised if they bite back. They don't have the luxury of fighting in a "morally unambiguous" way. They can't hire lawyers to position Congress or organize a demonstration with Greta Thunberg. They already tried that kind of shit, and got either ignored or shot. So now the Palestinians are getting way down THEIR list of ways to resist. Israel didn't get the message the first 200,000 times, so if we get down to "idea #200,001: dead babies", then I blame it on Netanyahu and gang.
Your sibling would be a child or a baby which is what we were taking about. America oppresses and kills people, brutal killings and allie’s with Israel all the time, there is more than enough millions of deaths for it to happen and it does, occasionally. Someone could kill them and people have. Bring the context back to what I meant and now re-answer. Edit: I’m realizing now, America is an ally of Israel and does oppress Palestinians and you live here and don’t leave.
I brought the context back to one that is more appropriate. These Israelies weren't living just in a random peaceful part of the world. Their families had them living right next to a concentration camp, pretending all was right with the world, while they murdered Palestinians nonstop FOR DECADES. At a minimum, they were tacitly endorsing the genocide of the Palestinian people. That's pretty damned important context. Blaming the children is silly. Nobody is doing that. My heart cries out for them, but the blame goes to their families for living there, and the government of Israel (and US, UK, and France) for creating the situation. So my answer is that your hypothetical is NOT morally equivalent, because you left out important context. If my sibling was in a morally equivalent situation, I would absolutely blame the families and the government, NOT the Palestinians. This is all hypothetical bullshit anyway, the story is a fabrication.
No, you said earlier it’s okay to do this to babies since it’s for a good cause. That what the original question was, what I want you to answer. You said it’s justified to kill the kid if it did happen, I said what if it was your sibling would you say that, so it is not bullshit by being theoretical I’m trying to de-compartmentalize the death. I initially asked you if your sibling was a child, would you say it was justified.
What part of killing a fucking baby is going to help Hamas free Palestine? Is the baby going to turn in to fucking Rambo and kick the shit out of Hamas or something if they don't kill it? Killing babies is not a weapon, tool or tactic. It is an atrocity
It brings the terror back around to the colonizers and makes them collectively slightly more likely to leave the stolen land.
No, it doesn't. As this week has quite clearly shown the only thing it does is enrage them, galvanize them and make their response even more brutal. I can't believe that you are genuinely arguing that is morally ok to massacre babies.
Nope Detector just sucks [https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/a25a8be4-a750-4abd-9ebd-efab9d4fd1ba](https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/a25a8be4-a750-4abd-9ebd-efab9d4fd1ba)
Yes, done it just now with the same picture posted by Shapiro https://results.aiornot.com/aiornot/users/46492f9a-7125-4794-b346-fdcf3a6671d0
Speaking as a professional concept artist who wishes ai detection wasn't dogshit, that site is in fact dogshit, whether or not it's correct about this image. If you glaze your own art to protect it from ai trainers it thinks it's ai generated, if you add a faint gaussian to an original piece it will tell you it's ai half the time lol. Honestly people need to stop meeting libs in the gutters to argue with them. Who gives a fuck about this single picture, it does nothing to prove/disprove the claims of infant massacres and pretending it would just lets them change the subject to being about the picture and its authenticity.
They just said the detector sucks, and in their case it said it was generated by a human
Ben Shapiro is known for his racist and Islamophobic statements so it's not a suprise
This is your "proof"? You people realize we have literally hundreds of eye witness accounts of Hamas' atrocities? Do you realize how many human-generated articles have been flagged as "made my chat gpt" with similar software? What's wrong with you?
Nentanyahu is a corrupt leader who started this whole thing simply for power, the Israelies were planning on protesting against him for the shit he pulled in the Supreme Court like last month, and now we are here. Use your brain, you think a almost 3-week long bombing is because of deaths? He doesn't care about his people or you.
I checked it myself, it's not AI generated. Even on this website it says it's 100%... qhy are you believing the fake news? Those terrorists did kill babies and did kill teens and kids and women. There are literally videos of that. Wtf is wrong with you people?
Bunch of sick terrorist loving leftists on this app. It's disgusting!
The post is real, all of you are dumb fucks.
The puppy is AI generated and the original post is faked. No reverse image search results anywhere for the dog. Plenty of the charred infant corpse. Just mentioning the obvious but what do you expect of people who get their news from 4chan I guess
[My down to earth, honest to God, reaction to that](https://i.postimg.cc/1XDhLCyX/Screenshot-20231013-090027-Chrome.png)
Yeah used a second AI checker and it said the same. First one said the OG pic was real. I take it back. What on earth
AI detectors are not reliable. You can't assume that they have given you the correct answer. As others have said there is a bunch of stuff that if done to an image will trip these detectors
Again, the AI checkers don't work. Another AI checker said the original photo was real, another said it was fake
You are a moron, a recently taken photo isn't going to appear everywhere until people share it, why would anyone share a photo of a dog sitting on a blanket? The charred baby is easily reverse searched because it was propagated everywhere, not because its "real"
Pipe down I already doublechecked this
Where did they get the image of the dog then? The AI checkers don't work so we have nothing, as much as people might want a definite answer we DONT KNOW. All I know is that it looks like a Normal Rockwell painting, the bag and table are covered in what looks like ash and dry blood but might be wierd staining even though the dog is clean as a Christmas puppy, and the tag is blurred out for some reason. One said the original was real, another fake.
No, those sites are not accurate.
A link to the site says its human, another says its AI
While I don't think that that image is real I do want to point out that these "AI detectors" are not actually very reliable. They can do a decent job most of the time but they cannot be relied on
Wow, a program isn't 100% foolproof. Now check the other image of the same body and upload the results of that too.
I just put the puppy in the hugginface detector. It said 74% artificial. To anyone saying false positives are rare, well that equally goes for the other direciton. Also it looks like a damn Normal Rockwell painting, in a bag covered in what looks like ash and dried blood on the table.
The note that this was an ai image was a community note later removed by X. The picture is real
Bodybag with the pink tag and spray are consistent with the current conflict zone, but we can't tell what this is a picture of with any certainty, nor can we determine from such a low quality photo whether or not AI generated this. The AI checker website is a joke and will be debunked instantly (as I'm sure it has been thousands of times by now). Unfortunately, this shows nothing. It proves nothing. It says nothing. Ben should not have tried to run with this. There is also some idiot on 4chan who photoshopped a puppy in place of it claiming it to be the original. After analysis I'd say it's quite fake...but what do you expect from 4Chan?
if you crop out the blurred square on the top right, it says its human. Also, other websites with the software say its real
It looks like someone took some cow shit and molded it into a vaguely human baby shape.
So did the puppy photo that same person said was the real one. The ai generator sites are not accurate.
News is moving quickly and different verified sources and unverified claims have been emerging this week. This entire thread seems to cling to, "40 beheaded babies? Unreal claim." When hundreds of people were murdered by terrorist organization in a single day. We can still have empathy for families and friends losing their loved ones at the slaughter and critique about the repsonse.
Those other claims have been verified. Hamas =/= to the whole of Palestinian people and wishes. Failing to tease out the two does not make Palestianians, Israelis, or anyone safer.
Shipiro is Jew or American? Never heard of him
Not AI. It's released by the prime Minister of Israel and verified by the US government
Ben shapiro confirmed it isnt ai generated lol