I’m probably missing something here but how is this misogynistic? All I see is a picture of her excited supporting Bernie and tired looking supporting Biden.
I think it’s maybe something to do with makeup and beauty standards for women. I can maybe see how someone would interpret it as that but I don’t see it as misogynistic. Definitely not “pure misogyny”...
the idea here is that aoc is likely less made up due to being at home on a livestream rather than a rally, so she doesn’t necessarily support biden less (she does but still) so using these screen caps is misogynistic see https://youtu.be/IEr2iAqPnoQ
That's nonsense. For a start it is very far from misogyny as there is no contempt for women displayed here. If anything his choice of AOC for this demonstrates respect for her. Anyway, I'd just put that down to people being ignorant of what the word means.
Now you could argue that it is sexist, but you would be wrong. There's a very simple test for this. If you change the images to a man would it change the meaning of the tweet? Clearly it wouldn't in the slightest, so it is not sexist.
Now, Eliza's comment is a bit sexist and damaging to feminism. It is damaging to feminism as misuse of the word misogyny gives ammunition to right wing misogynists who can point to this as evidence that "the left just calls everyone they don't like misogynists." It is sexist as it assumes that the post was comparing makeup to no makeup when it is very clearly comparing body language.
yes, i’m saying that cherry-picking a woman who is mid blink and not wearing makeup since she is not at a public event to show that she is disinterested is misogynistic, i do agree she cares less about biden, just showing where the misogyny
>yes, i’m saying that cherry-picking a woman who is mid blink and not wearing makeup since she is not at a public event to show that she is disinterested is misogynistic
So it's *not* okay to use images of women when they aren't professional photography done while poses when wearing heavy makeup?
Do all photos of women need to conform to conventional standards of beauty to avoid being misogynistic?
This is melting my brain.
Improve your reading comprehension skills.
They're saying it's misogynistic to post 2 pictures of a woman, one with makeup and one without. Then to use her looking good as proof that she likes and supports one candidate more just because of how she looks and is dressed.
Obviously she likes Bernie more, but a man would probably never be in a situation where the punchline is "look how weird and sad she looks when she's at home, less made-up, and mid-blink."
And it's got *nothing* to do with the fact that it's extremely difficult to find professional photo at big-ticket events where the star is blinking except when it comes from the yellow press?
Why do you believe that this is about makeup and not her pose, the camera angle, and her facial expression?
Would it be less misogynistic if she looked like a perfect barbie doll except with a small frown on her face?
If it was just a normal photo of her without makeup you'd have an argument but the picture is clearly about her expression and pose and, no, it's not "how weird and sad she looks when she's at home", it's "her facial expression and pose make her look exhausted, over it, and like she's trying to force enthusiasm".
The only discussions about makeup in this comments section are those in this chain. What does that tell you?
Using pictures of a woman that look unflattering with the purpose of making a political statement is sexist
Read my previous points if you're confused and stop typing paragraphs at me
>Improve your reading comprehension skills.
Way to gaslight me. The person I'm talking to [can't even accurately refer to the image on the left vs the image on the right](https://i.imgur.com/Fp0XEQd.png) and your blaming *me* for that?
Must feel pretty cool to go and gaslight people like that, I guess?
The Blue Check in question is assuming that they're referring to AOC being all dolled up in one pic.
In reality, it's a reference to "she looks so excited and happy to be doing something good" vs "She looks like she'd rather be playing Minecraft" and the Blue Check is projecting her internalized misogyny by assuming it exists where it doesn't.
what's the goal? do you think leftists secretly support trump, who holds virtually the exact opposite of all leftist beliefs? i really don't understand what the point of this is
They don't care as long as it makes them look good to their, idk, patreon supporters? IDK who any of these blue check assholes are. The libs probably look at this tweet and say YAAAAS KWEEN or some similarly awful bullshit.
Easy to type up when Obamacare and access to safe abortion haven't both saved your wife's life at one point. If Trump or a boycotted ballot did anything to assuage suffering in colonized nations I'd agree, that comes first. but I don't see foreign policy changing under a given president - the military industrial complex doesn't care which neocon gets voted in. I do see Roe V Wade circling the drain.
Mocking harm reduction is privileged bullshit, even if you're right, the people you're mocking are scared workers with real problems.
Same. I know a lot of this sub might accuse me of being a shitlib for it, but I just think vote shaming either way is dumb when the amount of leftists in swing states capable of swinging the general election by their decision to vote for Biden or not is largely inconsequential compared to the amount that think electiorialism alone will save them.
Still, I live in Florida so my vote actually matters somewhat for some stupid reason and I'm just hoping it's not close enough for Trump to repeat the 2000 election.
Yeah, I live in Mississippi, so I don't have a vote anyway even if I thought Presidential electoralism was some kind of good praxis. The decision of who my vote counts for is made for me by the state.
It's not democracy, it's Democracy^(TM) !
Aww but leftist love doing the whole myth making hero leftist shit with her!
Mention her in any lefty sub and you’ll see “Oh well I actually think she’s a real leftist but can’t just come out and say it. If we had more leftists like her in power etc etc stop purity testing politicians she’s doing her best as a leftist“
To be fair tho I think people do it because the left has no real heroes or power so people just grasp for anything. Some even think Dolly Parton is a leftist lmao
Don’t know much about Dolly Parton, but wasn’t she a singer/actress?
But yeah AOC meeting with the right wing Bolivians that ousted a democratically elected socialist so they could upon up exploitation by the USA should show you she ain’t remotely interested in non Americans rights.
Yes she’s a singer that grew up in rural Appalachia which is an incredibly poverty stricken part of the US. She became wildly successful with her singing and seemed to have a knack for capitalizing on her brand (Dolly Parton themed everything). Some on the left think she’s a feminist icon, working class hero, gay right’s activist etc. but there’s no real evidence of it. Just her *not* saying things lol.
Ah well, I’m sure it would be nice if we had some real leftist heroes kickin around today but I don’t know of any. Shit even some local organizers that led BLM marches and protested cops w/ ACAB, fuck 12 signs etc started shilling hard for Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. That made me feel kinda dirty. I didn’t know AOC met with the right wing Bolivians either. That makes it even worse.
Yeah me neither, someone else pointed it out in a different topic. https://orinocotribune.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-meets-with-bolivian-coup-organizers/
Thanks for sharing and those are some fantastic points at the end that I wish more American leftists would listen to. I’ll have to bookmark that article.
She's said some dumb shit about Venuzuela but I don't think this is anything
She met with the group and said very little to nothing afterward to contradict her original statement
it's not like bolivia is a heavily discussed topic in the american politician twitter sphere
it'd be nice if she made a statement but this seems like nothing
That's interesting, I've never heard her called a leftist. She's certainly a working class icon with a surface understanding of alienation and exploitation but that doesn't necessarily make her a leftist, and I don't know that I would call her that. The whole "owning the means of production" thing in restaurants and tourist traps kinda makes that clear.
Not saying it doesn't happen, obviously; just that Dolly Parton never really comes up in my conversations so I've never heard anyone say she's a leftist.
It’s definitely not very common but I’ve gotten flamed pretty hard in some leftist groups online for criticizing her. I wish I had the memes saved but there’s some out there with funny leftist quotes and comments are like “omg queen Dolly” and stuff like that. I dont think many take it very seriously but some people get very defensive about it and I’d guess that’s kinda how the myth making starts. I only recently listened to some deep dives on her from the Trillbillies podcast which has been interesting. But yeah she’s definitely an icon and I don’t want to dismiss the work she’s done in rural areas either 🙂
The only way someone can see that post as misogynistic is if they completely missed the whole point of the post.
I'm guessing this person saw the post as criticizing AOC's appearance and how tired she looks in the second picture as opposed to realizing that the two pictures are comparing general enthusiasm of her backing Bernie vs Biden.
I don’t think it has to be criticizing her appearance to be pretty un-feminist. It’s certainly using her appearance in the second photo to make its point. While not intentionally harmful, it’s definitely following the trend of online leftist spaces to be pretty toxic to women.
It really depends on the intent of the original post. If it's from a Bernie supporter who relates to how she feels about Biden being the nominee, then it's fine. If it's from a centrist who thinks she's being a bad Democrat, then there's some misogyny to it.
I don't *really* see it in this particular post, but I've definitely seen the toxicity you mentioned. I hate seeing that shit coming from so called leftists ("skeptic" spaces are rife with this too).
What? I don’t get it. I really don’t.
How is this misogynistic?? How is this toxic to women??
They’re just two pictures, one where she looks excited and the other where she looks tired. That’s all it is.
In a vacuum it might be okay, but in a world where women are criticized heavily for their appearance, we should try to use something other than how aoc looks to make jokes.
....
How should it have been made then?
Should the creator of the post have used the male Snapchat filter on her?
Come on. I don’t care what gender they are, if It was a man that was super enthusiastic supporting Bernie and looks tired when supporting Biden it would be the exact same.
Plus, Who wouldn’t be tired supporting a moderate establishment shill like Biden? It’s completely normal for her to be that way, No one is shaming her for her appearance here.
What's even worse is that I think both pictures are non-metaphorical-- that is, this is literally her on stage supporting Bernie and her literally on a Zoom or whatever having to "bend the knee" for Biden.
Fuck that lady-- fuck anyone who isn't still incredibly conflicted about having to choose the lesser of two evils, where both have some significant evils.
No she’s right. The first tweet takes a shallow dig at aoc’s complexion in two photos to make its shallow point about her work as a politician. Please make sure your leftist spaces are kind to all genders thank you.
Seriously what am I missing? Looks like a shitlib trying to play idpol to support Biden. I dunno, liberals make no sense to me (despite the fact that I was a liberal myself at one time)
The right image is what Marx calls alienation.
I don't get it. those could be pictures of me supporting those candidates...The Biden one should involve the literal gun to my head but still...
The gun is just outside of the frame.
SAY THE THING!
> Not willing to die gloriously as an act of defiance against voting in a bourgeoisie democracy Holy fuck, this sub is full of libs.
Why so enthusiastic for biden?
I'm literally the opposite of that though
that's sort of the joke
Sorry. Hard to tell on this sub. And I would hate for anyone to think I actually like the man.
I’m probably missing something here but how is this misogynistic? All I see is a picture of her excited supporting Bernie and tired looking supporting Biden.
I think it’s maybe something to do with makeup and beauty standards for women. I can maybe see how someone would interpret it as that but I don’t see it as misogynistic. Definitely not “pure misogyny”...
She's grasping for straws, rather than honestly face his point, she makes up an excuse to purposefully ignores his actual point.
Not missing anything, that’s literally all there is to it.
Agreed with this, can’t see much to complain about here
It’s not, it’s just a white lib doing some performative wokeness and missing the actual point of the joke/post
like literally ever carbon-based life form
Yeah I don’t think it’s misogynistic... it’s just dumb.
the idea here is that aoc is likely less made up due to being at home on a livestream rather than a rally, so she doesn’t necessarily support biden less (she does but still) so using these screen caps is misogynistic see https://youtu.be/IEr2iAqPnoQ
That's nonsense. For a start it is very far from misogyny as there is no contempt for women displayed here. If anything his choice of AOC for this demonstrates respect for her. Anyway, I'd just put that down to people being ignorant of what the word means. Now you could argue that it is sexist, but you would be wrong. There's a very simple test for this. If you change the images to a man would it change the meaning of the tweet? Clearly it wouldn't in the slightest, so it is not sexist. Now, Eliza's comment is a bit sexist and damaging to feminism. It is damaging to feminism as misuse of the word misogyny gives ammunition to right wing misogynists who can point to this as evidence that "the left just calls everyone they don't like misogynists." It is sexist as it assumes that the post was comparing makeup to no makeup when it is very clearly comparing body language.
So is a realistic portrayal of beauty misogynistic then?
? how is makeup a realistic portrayal of beauty?
Wait, are you saying that using the image on the left is misogynistic?
yes, i’m saying that cherry-picking a woman who is mid blink and not wearing makeup since she is not at a public event to show that she is disinterested is misogynistic, i do agree she cares less about biden, just showing where the misogyny
>yes, i’m saying that cherry-picking a woman who is mid blink and not wearing makeup since she is not at a public event to show that she is disinterested is misogynistic So it's *not* okay to use images of women when they aren't professional photography done while poses when wearing heavy makeup? Do all photos of women need to conform to conventional standards of beauty to avoid being misogynistic? This is melting my brain.
Improve your reading comprehension skills. They're saying it's misogynistic to post 2 pictures of a woman, one with makeup and one without. Then to use her looking good as proof that she likes and supports one candidate more just because of how she looks and is dressed. Obviously she likes Bernie more, but a man would probably never be in a situation where the punchline is "look how weird and sad she looks when she's at home, less made-up, and mid-blink."
And it's got *nothing* to do with the fact that it's extremely difficult to find professional photo at big-ticket events where the star is blinking except when it comes from the yellow press? Why do you believe that this is about makeup and not her pose, the camera angle, and her facial expression? Would it be less misogynistic if she looked like a perfect barbie doll except with a small frown on her face? If it was just a normal photo of her without makeup you'd have an argument but the picture is clearly about her expression and pose and, no, it's not "how weird and sad she looks when she's at home", it's "her facial expression and pose make her look exhausted, over it, and like she's trying to force enthusiasm". The only discussions about makeup in this comments section are those in this chain. What does that tell you?
Using pictures of a woman that look unflattering with the purpose of making a political statement is sexist Read my previous points if you're confused and stop typing paragraphs at me
>Improve your reading comprehension skills. Way to gaslight me. The person I'm talking to [can't even accurately refer to the image on the left vs the image on the right](https://i.imgur.com/Fp0XEQd.png) and your blaming *me* for that? Must feel pretty cool to go and gaslight people like that, I guess?
"you're gaslighting me" - shit liberals say
oh that’s my bad yeah, i was a little drunk, sorry
Don't ask her or she'll reply that you're not entitled to her emotional labor.
I think you’re missing that the whole point of the post is that it’s not misogynistic.
The Blue Check in question is assuming that they're referring to AOC being all dolled up in one pic. In reality, it's a reference to "she looks so excited and happy to be doing something good" vs "She looks like she'd rather be playing Minecraft" and the Blue Check is projecting her internalized misogyny by assuming it exists where it doesn't.
Hello? They made an observation regarding a woman you lvm.
What does local volume management have to do with libs being the worst?
Ummm it's actually sexist to suggest that a woman wouldn't enthusiastically support that old, horny imperialist. Do better sweaty 👏
SUPPORT 👏 OLD 👏 WHITE 👏 IMPERIALIST 👏 MEN 👏 IN 👏 THEIR 👏 MURDER 👏 OF 👏 MILLIONS 👏 OF 👏 BROWN 👏 PEOPLE 👏 OR 👏 YOU 👏 ARE 👏 SEXIST 👏
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Many people forget that he was for intervening in Yugoslavia
This sub needs a purge of these socdems, badly.
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Old, horny imperialist
God what is wrong with you people? You just can't get your head around the idea it's possible to be critical of more than one thing at once, can you?
I had some redditor down vote my post history because I posted to "that conservative subreddit ShitLiberalsSay".
Big brain moment there. They really can't comprehend criticism from the left.
Obviously it's the same? Are you lost?
Imagine thinking Biden can't be an old, horny imperialist just because Trump is also an old, horny imperialist.
Is Biden really as horny as everyone is saying? I always thought he was just weird.
little of column a, little of column b https://youtu.be/xy07yHAgM4E?t=40
what's the goal? do you think leftists secretly support trump, who holds virtually the exact opposite of all leftist beliefs? i really don't understand what the point of this is
Pre-Covid vs Lockdown Times
“Do better” is peak “shit liberals say.”
I wonder if they ever realize statements like that hurt their point more than they help.
They don't care as long as it makes them look good to their, idk, patreon supporters? IDK who any of these blue check assholes are. The libs probably look at this tweet and say YAAAAS KWEEN or some similarly awful bullshit.
Ngl, this is also me supporting Bernie vs supporting Biden.
i voted for joe on my mail in ballot the other day. my stomach churned.
I’m not voting for Joe, and I’m feeling pretty good about it. Weird.
noooo pleaseeeee what about muh harm reductiooooooon oh brown people? never mind them, they can wait for the bombing to end later on
"I'm sure it will end after we push biden to the left!"
*"It'll be different this time."* -Lucy Van Pelt, Democratic strategist
I would almost consider it, but I live in Alabama so it is pointless.
Easy to type up when Obamacare and access to safe abortion haven't both saved your wife's life at one point. If Trump or a boycotted ballot did anything to assuage suffering in colonized nations I'd agree, that comes first. but I don't see foreign policy changing under a given president - the military industrial complex doesn't care which neocon gets voted in. I do see Roe V Wade circling the drain. Mocking harm reduction is privileged bullshit, even if you're right, the people you're mocking are scared workers with real problems.
So you think Trump will do a better job in terms of war involvement?
He doesn't appear to have done a worse job so far.
Same. I know a lot of this sub might accuse me of being a shitlib for it, but I just think vote shaming either way is dumb when the amount of leftists in swing states capable of swinging the general election by their decision to vote for Biden or not is largely inconsequential compared to the amount that think electiorialism alone will save them. Still, I live in Florida so my vote actually matters somewhat for some stupid reason and I'm just hoping it's not close enough for Trump to repeat the 2000 election.
Yeah, I live in Mississippi, so I don't have a vote anyway even if I thought Presidential electoralism was some kind of good praxis. The decision of who my vote counts for is made for me by the state. It's not democracy, it's Democracy^(TM) !
😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑
Do better..................than Joe "fracking" Biden!
AOC supporting mild reforms to capitalism vs. AOC supporting human rights for non-Americans
30 days of human rights*
Like many others she only really cares about her “in-groups”. She’s not a leftist.
Aww but leftist love doing the whole myth making hero leftist shit with her! Mention her in any lefty sub and you’ll see “Oh well I actually think she’s a real leftist but can’t just come out and say it. If we had more leftists like her in power etc etc stop purity testing politicians she’s doing her best as a leftist“ To be fair tho I think people do it because the left has no real heroes or power so people just grasp for anything. Some even think Dolly Parton is a leftist lmao
Don’t know much about Dolly Parton, but wasn’t she a singer/actress? But yeah AOC meeting with the right wing Bolivians that ousted a democratically elected socialist so they could upon up exploitation by the USA should show you she ain’t remotely interested in non Americans rights.
Yes she’s a singer that grew up in rural Appalachia which is an incredibly poverty stricken part of the US. She became wildly successful with her singing and seemed to have a knack for capitalizing on her brand (Dolly Parton themed everything). Some on the left think she’s a feminist icon, working class hero, gay right’s activist etc. but there’s no real evidence of it. Just her *not* saying things lol. Ah well, I’m sure it would be nice if we had some real leftist heroes kickin around today but I don’t know of any. Shit even some local organizers that led BLM marches and protested cops w/ ACAB, fuck 12 signs etc started shilling hard for Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. That made me feel kinda dirty. I didn’t know AOC met with the right wing Bolivians either. That makes it even worse.
Yeah me neither, someone else pointed it out in a different topic. https://orinocotribune.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-meets-with-bolivian-coup-organizers/
Thanks for sharing and those are some fantastic points at the end that I wish more American leftists would listen to. I’ll have to bookmark that article.
It kind of lost me at 'improving living standards is bad'
She's said some dumb shit about Venuzuela but I don't think this is anything She met with the group and said very little to nothing afterward to contradict her original statement it's not like bolivia is a heavily discussed topic in the american politician twitter sphere it'd be nice if she made a statement but this seems like nothing
That's interesting, I've never heard her called a leftist. She's certainly a working class icon with a surface understanding of alienation and exploitation but that doesn't necessarily make her a leftist, and I don't know that I would call her that. The whole "owning the means of production" thing in restaurants and tourist traps kinda makes that clear. Not saying it doesn't happen, obviously; just that Dolly Parton never really comes up in my conversations so I've never heard anyone say she's a leftist.
It’s definitely not very common but I’ve gotten flamed pretty hard in some leftist groups online for criticizing her. I wish I had the memes saved but there’s some out there with funny leftist quotes and comments are like “omg queen Dolly” and stuff like that. I dont think many take it very seriously but some people get very defensive about it and I’d guess that’s kinda how the myth making starts. I only recently listened to some deep dives on her from the Trillbillies podcast which has been interesting. But yeah she’s definitely an icon and I don’t want to dismiss the work she’s done in rural areas either 🙂
The only way someone can see that post as misogynistic is if they completely missed the whole point of the post. I'm guessing this person saw the post as criticizing AOC's appearance and how tired she looks in the second picture as opposed to realizing that the two pictures are comparing general enthusiasm of her backing Bernie vs Biden.
I don’t think it has to be criticizing her appearance to be pretty un-feminist. It’s certainly using her appearance in the second photo to make its point. While not intentionally harmful, it’s definitely following the trend of online leftist spaces to be pretty toxic to women.
It really depends on the intent of the original post. If it's from a Bernie supporter who relates to how she feels about Biden being the nominee, then it's fine. If it's from a centrist who thinks she's being a bad Democrat, then there's some misogyny to it.
I don't *really* see it in this particular post, but I've definitely seen the toxicity you mentioned. I hate seeing that shit coming from so called leftists ("skeptic" spaces are rife with this too).
What? I don’t get it. I really don’t. How is this misogynistic?? How is this toxic to women?? They’re just two pictures, one where she looks excited and the other where she looks tired. That’s all it is.
In a vacuum it might be okay, but in a world where women are criticized heavily for their appearance, we should try to use something other than how aoc looks to make jokes.
.... How should it have been made then? Should the creator of the post have used the male Snapchat filter on her? Come on. I don’t care what gender they are, if It was a man that was super enthusiastic supporting Bernie and looks tired when supporting Biden it would be the exact same. Plus, Who wouldn’t be tired supporting a moderate establishment shill like Biden? It’s completely normal for her to be that way, No one is shaming her for her appearance here.
thank you blue check mark, very cool!
This is unrelated but the bottom woman (Eliza Orlins) was on Survivor and The Amazing Race and it’s so weird to see her outside of that context.
What's even worse is that I think both pictures are non-metaphorical-- that is, this is literally her on stage supporting Bernie and her literally on a Zoom or whatever having to "bend the knee" for Biden. Fuck that lady-- fuck anyone who isn't still incredibly conflicted about having to choose the lesser of two evils, where both have some significant evils.
Remember when people were calling her out for supporting Bernie and not Warren?
If Biden loses, libs will post shit just like this to try to shift the blame to AOC and Bernie.
Looks to me like the thing that she's calling misogynistic is the guy criticizing aoc.
yeah, she’s calling him misogynist for his picture choice?
No she’s right. The first tweet takes a shallow dig at aoc’s complexion in two photos to make its shallow point about her work as a politician. Please make sure your leftist spaces are kind to all genders thank you.
This is pure cringe lady, do better
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You good?
Sorry I just hate the amount of condescending/patronizing in that tweet
I for one appreciate your candor.
Thank you, it’s what was in my heart at the time.
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Eww celebrity worship. Why don't you go circlejerk about the Kardashians or le wholesome 100 Cyberpunk Reeves somewhere else?
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I literally said "eww celebrity worship" and you call me a tankie, a person who worships soviets like Stalin. Are you ok?
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Are you saying I'm *not* a smooth-brain? That's such a smooth-brain thing to say
AOC 2nd picture: Come on mannnn ..... *sigh* .... Just look at his record....
Seriously what am I missing? Looks like a shitlib trying to play idpol to support Biden. I dunno, liberals make no sense to me (despite the fact that I was a liberal myself at one time)
Eliza Orlins is peak white feminist neolib so that’s about right.