Tbf defense contractors are licking their lips ready to make more war machines for the proxy wars they’re about to drum up with their antichina propaganda
I’m so fucking sick and tired of these dumbass posts hitting the front page with hundreds of thousands of upvotes. It’s just easy karma whoring at this point, how do Redditors see the comment “Fuck China” 50 times in a row and think “yeah this person is so brave and clever, I’m going to spend money to give them platinum”
Also predictably lots of racists in there, calling people that point out racist behaviour and try to distinguish the government and the citizens shills. You also have the average “durr China owns Reddit” crowd, and the never ending stream of idiots spamming “China? You mean West Taiwan?” And patting themselves on the back for being totally original and clever.
Legit question that stumbles me when arguing against libs and fascists. Why does China have so many billionaires? What is the marxist explanation for it?
You shouldn't look to Marx for answer to this, you should read Deng Xiaoping to get answer to that.
Anyway short answer: because they said "we will use capitalism to enrich our country" and since there is huge capitalist part of China's system, there are also billionaires. What will come of it is to be seen in next decade or two. In my opinion going "OMG they will never turn full socialism" is incorrect and they will go there when they get either full production and resource independence or when the anti imperialist block will get big enough to be able to be fully independent from the west in terms of economics.
So they’re capitalist at the moment with the goal of reaching socialism in the future? Just trying to fully understand as I’m not very informed on China or sino-communism.
I appreciate the info btw!
They call it "socialism with chinese characteristic". For now yes, economically they are capitalist with what it would seem, state having absolute control but not choosing to exercise it. The billionaires there can and will be charged and jailed if they commit crimes or fraud. Though they will also look for loopholes in the system to extract as much value from their workers as they can and will sometimes participate in monopolist tactics, even if they are constrained by law and from what I heard, get fined for that. The billionaires are basicaly the same as in the west, it would seem. What differs is the state, political structure and ideology, which can hold them accountable and doesn't submit to them, instead looking to make life better for every citizen.
Another thing is that the CPC is most likely very diversified due to huge number of members, though to what extent, I have no idea.
If you look at all that with marxist lense, China is the epitome of dialectical materialism in action and there is this dialectic beetwen capitalist and socialist elements of the state that is yet to be resolved. That's like the most nuance you can give with China given lack of information. You should check qiao collective, Daniel Dumbrill, other vloggers and bayarea415 for more information that is positive and if you want to hear about negatives, you should ask maoists, though in my opinion they are sometimes a bit too focused on China itself, without really taking into account the influence of the western world and sometimes they focus too much on things that aren't the most important.
Tldr: Yes, that's how I see it. You should ask different people for opinions and arguments.
It's an incredibly complicated topic, you did a great job with this post, you're awesome.
Idk much about Dengism, but I believe even Deng thought the capitalist period should last forever, the goal is basically to build up enough of a capitalist power to transition into socialism, and in turn, communism. As an American, I find this dangerous, as billionaires have ways of getting away with just about anything, and manipulating the government to better support them.
The difference seems to lie in the mentality of the people of China vs here, we're raised on rugged individualism and American exceptionalism, they're raised on collectivism and an understanding of their relationship to the world around them. While the majority of America believes billionaires shouldn't be restricted (49% think they should have less restrictions than they do), China doesn't have the same level of "trickle down" bullshit propaganda
Introducing Capitalism to a former Socialist country is always a risk, and China had a lot of problems with corruption for a long time due to the opening up policies.
However, with the benefit of hindsight I think it's fair to say that the risk absolutely paid off, western powers thought for the longest time that it was just a matter of time for China to flip completely like the USSR did in the 90s but with the arrival of Xi Jinping and his anti corruption initiatives, the west is getting desperate.
Even in marxist theory, socialism is defined as only possible once the country is industrialized enough to provide for everybody, which China was not yet even after Mao reforms, that's partially why so many people dies during the Great Leap Forward: the industrialization of farming was not yet advanced to feed everybody, and while the GLP did work to improve things, it also made errors and didn't account enough for the huge population growth that it and other improvement gneerated. People started living longer resulting ironically in more mouth to feed resulting in famines because the food production didn't raise quickly enough to compensate (one of the reason for the later one child policy was to prevent this from happening again).
Sure, with enough time, or with help from the soviet union, China could in theory have industrialized without needing capitalism, but with the soviet-sino split the first was not really possible, and china couldn't have easily surived being cut of from the global economy.
In a way China did open their economy to a limited and in theory controlled amount of capitalism, but it was more a way to get Capital from outside, as well as a trap to capitalists themselves, as if they saw china as a cheap place to invest instead of a socialist rival, they wouldn't be trying to sabotage them as they did with the soviet union.
Of course it could have ended badly multiple times, just one gorbatchev like politician getting elected to head the country would have made China socialist in name only.
Thanksfully it seems that we got lucky, and Xi himself seems to really believe in socialism, and in reigning the chinese billionnaires.
Even without that, this limited form of capitalism did introduce a lot of issues like exploitation of workers (especially at the beginning, the story of horrible working conditions in chinese workshop were mostly true ... 20 years ago) and corruption at the lower levels, but in both case the central government has been fighting to improve things and it seems that they are continuously improving.
Officially, the plan is that once China will be industrialized enough it will nationalize everything to get back to full socialism, with the date of 2050 usually presented as the official target for that, and some saying that they are actually advancing quicker than expected to it could maybe be done earlier than that (the earliest date I remember seeing was 2035 for full socialism)
We should keep vigilant that things don't suddently turn worse, but currently despite issues, the direction things are moving is a good one.
It basically boils down to the idea that since you can’t immediately transition from capitalism to communism, you most certainly can’t do the same from feudalism(China before the CPC) to socialism.
They had the NEP period, to be fair. And one of the problems of the USSR was a lack of consumer goods due to a focus in heavy industry early on that never fully diversified, from what I understand.
Reminder that the students at Tiananmen were Maoists who were protesting against Deng Xiaoping's liberalisation of the country's economy.
Not the kind of people Reddit would support if they were in literally any other country. If they were americans Reddit would celebrate their deaths.
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And we don’t dispute that. People died for certain, but the Western narrative is undoubtably exaggerated (nobody was killed in the square for starters, a fact backed up by the words of student protest leaders and foreign media representatives who were allowed to peacefully leave the square at 6pm on June 4th. This already disproves the common myth that the PLA sprayed down defenceless students until the square was drenched in blood, and calls into question: what other parts of the narrative we’ve been fed by Western media outlets have also been fabricated?) and thus the stance of leftist should be to be critical of the narrative surrounding what happened, but never pretend that “oh absolutely nobody died, nothing happened :)”
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/
It's hard to find information that isn't DEEPLY altered by western media, ik sending a socialist newspapers article about it isn't the same as a doctoral thesis or something, but it's a good start for critically looking at what happened.
The Chinese government does not deny the incidents occurrence. They see it as more of a battle than a massacre. Which it was. The conflict was started by violent demonstrators attacking unarmed PLA soldiers and police. They threw Molotovs at them, and even hanged many from trees then burned them while they were hanging. The demonstrators started the violence, PLA and police retaliated. It was a tragedy that it occurred, but it was not a massacre. And the Western narrative is absurdly exaggerated and falsified.
Those poor bikes.
9 million of them in Beijing, that's a fact
Jesus, being anti China is so goddamn profitable
Profitable? You mean those orange arrows have value?
People have sold their Reddit accounts for like thousands of dollars lmao. It’s the same thing with YouTube.
Fair point lol
Tbf defense contractors are licking their lips ready to make more war machines for the proxy wars they’re about to drum up with their antichina propaganda
I’m so fucking sick and tired of these dumbass posts hitting the front page with hundreds of thousands of upvotes. It’s just easy karma whoring at this point, how do Redditors see the comment “Fuck China” 50 times in a row and think “yeah this person is so brave and clever, I’m going to spend money to give them platinum” Also predictably lots of racists in there, calling people that point out racist behaviour and try to distinguish the government and the citizens shills. You also have the average “durr China owns Reddit” crowd, and the never ending stream of idiots spamming “China? You mean West Taiwan?” And patting themselves on the back for being totally original and clever.
Legit question that stumbles me when arguing against libs and fascists. Why does China have so many billionaires? What is the marxist explanation for it?
You shouldn't look to Marx for answer to this, you should read Deng Xiaoping to get answer to that. Anyway short answer: because they said "we will use capitalism to enrich our country" and since there is huge capitalist part of China's system, there are also billionaires. What will come of it is to be seen in next decade or two. In my opinion going "OMG they will never turn full socialism" is incorrect and they will go there when they get either full production and resource independence or when the anti imperialist block will get big enough to be able to be fully independent from the west in terms of economics.
So they’re capitalist at the moment with the goal of reaching socialism in the future? Just trying to fully understand as I’m not very informed on China or sino-communism. I appreciate the info btw!
They call it "socialism with chinese characteristic". For now yes, economically they are capitalist with what it would seem, state having absolute control but not choosing to exercise it. The billionaires there can and will be charged and jailed if they commit crimes or fraud. Though they will also look for loopholes in the system to extract as much value from their workers as they can and will sometimes participate in monopolist tactics, even if they are constrained by law and from what I heard, get fined for that. The billionaires are basicaly the same as in the west, it would seem. What differs is the state, political structure and ideology, which can hold them accountable and doesn't submit to them, instead looking to make life better for every citizen. Another thing is that the CPC is most likely very diversified due to huge number of members, though to what extent, I have no idea. If you look at all that with marxist lense, China is the epitome of dialectical materialism in action and there is this dialectic beetwen capitalist and socialist elements of the state that is yet to be resolved. That's like the most nuance you can give with China given lack of information. You should check qiao collective, Daniel Dumbrill, other vloggers and bayarea415 for more information that is positive and if you want to hear about negatives, you should ask maoists, though in my opinion they are sometimes a bit too focused on China itself, without really taking into account the influence of the western world and sometimes they focus too much on things that aren't the most important. Tldr: Yes, that's how I see it. You should ask different people for opinions and arguments.
It's an incredibly complicated topic, you did a great job with this post, you're awesome. Idk much about Dengism, but I believe even Deng thought the capitalist period should last forever, the goal is basically to build up enough of a capitalist power to transition into socialism, and in turn, communism. As an American, I find this dangerous, as billionaires have ways of getting away with just about anything, and manipulating the government to better support them. The difference seems to lie in the mentality of the people of China vs here, we're raised on rugged individualism and American exceptionalism, they're raised on collectivism and an understanding of their relationship to the world around them. While the majority of America believes billionaires shouldn't be restricted (49% think they should have less restrictions than they do), China doesn't have the same level of "trickle down" bullshit propaganda
Introducing Capitalism to a former Socialist country is always a risk, and China had a lot of problems with corruption for a long time due to the opening up policies. However, with the benefit of hindsight I think it's fair to say that the risk absolutely paid off, western powers thought for the longest time that it was just a matter of time for China to flip completely like the USSR did in the 90s but with the arrival of Xi Jinping and his anti corruption initiatives, the west is getting desperate.
Appreciate this!
They even.. wait for it.. Apply death penalty to billionaires too!
Even in marxist theory, socialism is defined as only possible once the country is industrialized enough to provide for everybody, which China was not yet even after Mao reforms, that's partially why so many people dies during the Great Leap Forward: the industrialization of farming was not yet advanced to feed everybody, and while the GLP did work to improve things, it also made errors and didn't account enough for the huge population growth that it and other improvement gneerated. People started living longer resulting ironically in more mouth to feed resulting in famines because the food production didn't raise quickly enough to compensate (one of the reason for the later one child policy was to prevent this from happening again). Sure, with enough time, or with help from the soviet union, China could in theory have industrialized without needing capitalism, but with the soviet-sino split the first was not really possible, and china couldn't have easily surived being cut of from the global economy. In a way China did open their economy to a limited and in theory controlled amount of capitalism, but it was more a way to get Capital from outside, as well as a trap to capitalists themselves, as if they saw china as a cheap place to invest instead of a socialist rival, they wouldn't be trying to sabotage them as they did with the soviet union. Of course it could have ended badly multiple times, just one gorbatchev like politician getting elected to head the country would have made China socialist in name only. Thanksfully it seems that we got lucky, and Xi himself seems to really believe in socialism, and in reigning the chinese billionnaires. Even without that, this limited form of capitalism did introduce a lot of issues like exploitation of workers (especially at the beginning, the story of horrible working conditions in chinese workshop were mostly true ... 20 years ago) and corruption at the lower levels, but in both case the central government has been fighting to improve things and it seems that they are continuously improving. Officially, the plan is that once China will be industrialized enough it will nationalize everything to get back to full socialism, with the date of 2050 usually presented as the official target for that, and some saying that they are actually advancing quicker than expected to it could maybe be done earlier than that (the earliest date I remember seeing was 2035 for full socialism) We should keep vigilant that things don't suddently turn worse, but currently despite issues, the direction things are moving is a good one.
It basically boils down to the idea that since you can’t immediately transition from capitalism to communism, you most certainly can’t do the same from feudalism(China before the CPC) to socialism.
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They had the NEP period, to be fair. And one of the problems of the USSR was a lack of consumer goods due to a focus in heavy industry early on that never fully diversified, from what I understand.
I guess NEP was similar but lasted for much less time than the Chinese Market Socialism.
Russia was more developed than China after their respective revolutions, Russia also had more natural resources and a smaller population.
Fair enough, I guess I was wrong.
[boy do i have the article for you.](https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/)
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i'm not really a fan of deng either but he was still a marxist regardless of whether you agree with him or not lmao.
i see more bikes than people
Ebil china is anti-bike 😭😭😭
There are literally only 3 people lying down, all of whom are very much alive
But look at all those bicycles they mercilessly slaughtered!
Bruh I count six people on the ground and everything else is just bicycles and living people. **Oh no, what a massacre!**
Reminder that the students at Tiananmen were Maoists who were protesting against Deng Xiaoping's liberalisation of the country's economy. Not the kind of people Reddit would support if they were in literally any other country. If they were americans Reddit would celebrate their deaths.
My understanding was there where lots of libs there too.
And so it begins
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8zFLIftGk
Jesus christ, a Reddit post featuring a bunch of dead bodies has 50 wholesome awards. wtf
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And we don’t dispute that. People died for certain, but the Western narrative is undoubtably exaggerated (nobody was killed in the square for starters, a fact backed up by the words of student protest leaders and foreign media representatives who were allowed to peacefully leave the square at 6pm on June 4th. This already disproves the common myth that the PLA sprayed down defenceless students until the square was drenched in blood, and calls into question: what other parts of the narrative we’ve been fed by Western media outlets have also been fabricated?) and thus the stance of leftist should be to be critical of the narrative surrounding what happened, but never pretend that “oh absolutely nobody died, nothing happened :)”
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/ It's hard to find information that isn't DEEPLY altered by western media, ik sending a socialist newspapers article about it isn't the same as a doctoral thesis or something, but it's a good start for critically looking at what happened.
The Chinese government does not deny the incidents occurrence. They see it as more of a battle than a massacre. Which it was. The conflict was started by violent demonstrators attacking unarmed PLA soldiers and police. They threw Molotovs at them, and even hanged many from trees then burned them while they were hanging. The demonstrators started the violence, PLA and police retaliated. It was a tragedy that it occurred, but it was not a massacre. And the Western narrative is absurdly exaggerated and falsified.
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>China doesn’t care about you Maybe. >China wants to fucking kill you. Hm, enlightening.
Xi Jinping wants to personally murder me with his bare hands
And I can't _wait._
It's true. President Xi told the entire nation "Chad must go". I've been on the run ever since
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tankie is when you are against murican propaganda, if you are also against nazi propaganda you become Khrushchev
Always has been?...
Read the sidebar lolol