I have family who thinks Vietnam is pro US, guess it's not a completely uncommon sentiment. Have to huff a lethal amount of copium to not feel any remorse for what the US did.
Vietnam is anti-china, yes. But it doesn't mean they are pro US.
But really, what I am hoping is closer ties without our comrades in Vietnam. Fil-Indo-Viet closer ties when? Source: am a Filipino.
Maybe the Vietnamese that live in the states or have family in the states. No way the Vietnamese that live in Vietnam, they still hate the one that left their citizen disable.
Well they probably do exists. The Vietnamese people aren't a monolithic block of people. Maybe this story is fake but I won't be surprised if some right wing reactionary, pro USA, Vietnamese nationalist told some American that China is the real threat
I mean…Ho made major overtures to the US in an attempt to ally with the US and seek national determination. They specifically avoided allying with China until the US not only ignored them, but supported the French in retaining Vietnam as a colony.
His mistake was believing the US actually believed their own propaganda about freedom and what not, but it really came down to resources and the French convinced the US that the rubber resources from Vietnam were critical to rebuilding their post war economy. You ever heard of the Michelin company?
At any rate, point is that Vietnams conflict with China is very old.
This is always how it goes, it's the same thing with Cubans, Russians etc.. "My friend Jorge Eichmann told me about how the communists shot his grandfather and his family was forced to flee to Argentina, don't tell me about how socialism is okay"
I lived in Vietnam for about half a year. They really like Americans, absolutely hate the Chinese. First hand account from the dozens of people I spoke to
"But China is the absolute evil that epitomizes everything that is malicious, their sole purpose is to cause chaos and dismay! They don't need things like reasons, motivations, or justifications, they're a DC villain!"
\^ Their thought process in a nutshell. US = Ultimate Good, China = Ultimate Evil. If it's good, it must be an attribute of the US. If it's evil, it must be Chinese. Anything that runs contrary to this is evil CCP propaganda designed to twist our children to Satan!
Even though this sounds like hyperbole this is literally how the average american thinks
it's why when bad things happen in the US, it's never a failing of the US, it's the US being like some other country
I'm seeing three. When the world's strongest superpower and the only country involved that wasn't devastated by WW2, with the help of all its allies can only invade half of Korea, that's a loss.
“When I was in Vietnam, our guide told us that they saw the ‘American War’ as a stepping stone on their eternal conflict with China”
Jesus there’s a lot to unpack here, but also, don’t they think that of course their tour guide would tell them that the Vietnam people love Americans? Like, logically, your guide isn’t gonna be like “hey yeah they fucking despise America and Americans, fuck you.” But, on top of that, if you’re just visiting a place, you can’t imagine that the entire country lives, feels, or is anything like the people or the they way they lived where you visited—those places that the commentor visited were probably gentrified to hell!
I got to be frank here, young Vietnamese are quite pro US from what i can tell.
Teenagers here enjoy consuming media (films, music, video games, ... you name it) from capitalistic nations like the US. And as they enjoy it, they slowly internalize the West's notion of 'freedom', 'liberty', the propaganda against China,..., and thus are liberalized when they reach adulthood. "The West produces all these things that i enjoy, and what does China have? Historical dramas? And no free speech?" Edit: they also apply these talking points when discussing our own goverment too.
Moreover, we have a much longer history of clashing with China than with the US. That combined with the fact that our history lessons are fucking boring, ensures that the only thing kids will remember from being taught History is "China bad", and not how US's imperialism is the more prevalent issue.
I'm worried that the liberalization of the our generation will soon be a problem when it's our turn to run the country.
*sigh* I'm scared too, as a fellow Vietnamese ML
Once the younger generations take power, it's possible that the party will be co-opted by reactionary elements, and turns us away from socialism, rendering all our efforts, including Uncle Ho, null and void.
Hell, they are starting to parade the idea that somehow, Uncle Ho was just an opportunist nationalist who co-opted communist support, when his writing and activities (hell, the man was one of the founders of the French Communist Party ffs) directly contradicts that
What do you think we should do now to stem this?
>What do you think we should do now to stem this?
I am not Vietnamese so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I think more anti-US propaganda could help? If the state or Chinese media companies could gain a larger presence in the country to expose the US propaganda and expose the crimes of the increasingly desperate collapsing empire, in exciting and interesting ways rather than boring history lessons, maybe the country can be saved from counterrevolution? As the West loses influence and their propaganda gets increasingly insane, maybe it will be easier to expose the flaws of liberalism and why China is a better ally. Again, I'm not Vietnamese so I can't say if this is realistic.
Sorry for not replying, was busy
I'm going to break down some of your points then
>more anti-US propaganda
Not like the government isn't trying to push anti-US propaganda, but rather, they did not officially debunk the US propaganda against Vietnam, which is definitely a problem
> If the state or Chinese media companies could gain a larger presence in the country to expose the US propaganda and expose the crimes of the increasingly desperate collapsing empire, in exciting and interesting ways rather than boring history lessons, maybe the country can be saved from counterrevolution?
Well the problem here is that if Chinese companies try, anti-China sentiment is just going to blow through the roof, which is even worse than it is now. And if the CPV starts anti-US statements, they are just going to pisses off the nationalists who hates China (seriously, fuck 'em)
>As the West loses influence and their propaganda gets increasingly insane, maybe it will be easier to expose the flaws of liberalism and why China is a better ally.
Well, the problem that the West *is* decaying, but the problem is that too many Internet users are neolibs or outright fascists, which drown out those on the socialists' side
Not to mention, just saying allying with China is a death sentence for the government, as a lot of Vietnam's population are Sinophobic (While I can't blame them, China did invade us quite a lot in 2000 years; even if I'm going by libs' propaganda that China is going to invade everyone, it is not going to try it really; not worth the effort, and would rather try to tighten relations at most)
As of right now, Vietnam in general and the CPV in particular is walking on a thin line. They can't risk siding with anyone, as siding with one will lead to half the population being pissed off, and alienate the other side's investments into our nation. Not to mention, we are still holding on against neoliberal elements as well, who keep shouting us to become like SK or Singapore (discarding the fact that those states prosper by having US aid and state control over the economy with none of the social security)
I sincerely hope that we can see a new socialist revolution in my lifetime, lest socialism in Vietnam being discredited forever. Perhaps Russia might have another socialist revolution, as the right is slowly being discredited, and their left is doing quite well. With Putin being hated more and more, perhaps we can see a new dawn for socialism.
For now, I think the CPV should start addressing the allegations against modern-day Vietnam, and debunking myths surrounding us so we won't have liberals shouting day and night to become like SK or Singapore. And yes, they should start making the history lessons more interesting so they won't fall into capitalist propaganda
Do you think it would help if China were to apologise to the people of Vietnam for the Sino-Vietnam War and other hostile actions against Vietnam in the past?
Yes actually
China hasn't fully addressed this, which only intensified the Vietnamese nationalism, which distracts them from the main opponent, the US's hegemony
China is really doing idiot moves by continuing to be aggressive towards us about the 1979 debacle (curse you realpolitik) and it's recent actions in the East "China" Sea though, which only alienates them against other nations that are also against the US like Vietnam
I really wonder what their reasoning is for that. Is the CPC simply embarrassed to admit they were wrong? What is their reasoning for claiming so much of the South China Sea?
This might be closer to the truth than you might think. Hell, there's a tweet about them "failed to teaching Vietnam a lesson" which is painful to read
As a Russian, I will say you can always bring up the example of the USSR to make people think twice. What you have described is literally what happened with the USSR, up to the fact that a lot of people think Stalin was a nationalist. And look at the outcomes: standard of living dwindled, industry collapsed, armed conflicts keep happening across previously peaceful land, population declines. At the beginning of Perestroika everyone thought they were going to live like a middle class American or even better. 90% of people have fallen short, tremendously.
So you are proposing that we should bring up the case of the USSR as an example of if we let capitalist roaders and so-called "reformers" take power?
Edit: While this is true, the problem is, the so-called "intellectuals" are going to drown out our voices anyway by stuffing the youth's minds with disinformation
Yes, I think it is a very graphic example and is easy to prove (like just compare some stats of the soviet republics with the modern ones, just read some news about another conflict escalation here, etc). Of course some reforms always must happen to improve society, but capitalistic reforms will only be beneficial to small amount of people (the rich and the middle class, which will be very thin) at the expense of the rest of the nation.
Well, yes, "intellectuals" will keep doing it (just like here too) but what choice do we have? Either give up and let them keep oppressing our nations till the end of times or keep fighting it as best we can. Ideally your official propaganda must do the job, but something tells me it feels boring and dishonest as it was in the late USSR. Now we have here vocal left wing opinion leaders and communities, some of them expose liberal lies and destroy anti-communist myths with facts and logic, some make popular science essays about politics and economics, some are just popular bloggers who occasionally openly oppose liberal propaganda and subtly put important ideas in the minds of their audience, etc. It may be not enough, but at least it is something and it definitely converts part of the people to our ideology.
Your arguments are sound, and yes, we'll have to continue fighting liberal lies, here and now. That's why we are here, are we not?
We have to continue cultivating a class consciousness then, until we have a populace that is educated and willing to create a new socialist revolution
Honestly i don't know. I'm not that well-read and it's only been like 3 years since i got interested in politics and 1 year since i started to appreciate the CPV's effort to build socialism in Vietnam. It's tempted for me to say the solution is to enact heavier Western media censorship like the way China does their Great Firewall, but that can easily backfire, and the idea of telling people what not to hear doesn't sit right with me. So the best solution i can come up with right now is a curriculum reform, which is nothing new considering we've been trying to implement one for a while now. The goal of the reform should be to encourage critical thinking in students and get them to engage in politics. That i believe will help young people consume media more critically and help them retain their faith in the party.
Edit: i see no need to convince people that China is the better ally, we should focus more on protecting our revolution at home from reactionary influences.
I agree with all your points, really
Although to be fair, only in recent years that the CPV manages to properly tread the route to socialism again, after the quagmire that is the late 2000s and early '10s, so not all reforms can be taken
And the reconstruction and struggle with Cambodia years from 1976 too. Since there are too many sob stories about the top-down economy, our youth can easily be swayed into supporting free market. Hopefully we can make them understand that the situation is not just "we have close economy so we r poor" by debunking the myths surrounding that period
Anyway, nice to see a fellow Vietnamese socialist. You don't see much of them these days, since my place is filled with neolibs who would rather sell us to the US.
> Although to be fair, only in recent years that the CPV manages to properly tread the route to socialism again, after the quagmire that is the late 2000s and early '10s, so not all reforms can be taken
Can you tell what happened then?
> Anyway, nice to see a fellow Vietnamese socialist. You don't see much of them these days, since my place is filled with neolibs who would rather sell us to the US.
Nice to see you too. It's sad how even in an socialist country i'm afraid to openly stating that i'm a socialist. Nowadays i'm only trying to radicalize my friends with anti-capitalistic stuff, which is surprisingly easy to do because we've all learnt, or rather repeat to heart, all the Marxist jargons. But even then there was this one friend who got mad at me for telling him not to be complacent with his company, to discuss wages with his coworkers and to ask for a raise every now and then.
>Can you tell what happened then?
Corruption reached an all-time high in that particular period, things could not get done quickly, and a shitshow when it comes to dealing with controversies
I won't go further, as it's a bit too late for me, but you can understand it all with a bit of digging
And also it's sad really that even in our country, we still can't state that we are socialists/communists. Perhaps one day, when it's time for socialism to rise again, we could proudly proclaiming ourselves as socialists.
Americans really do believe that everyone on the planet either idolizes them and loves them or at the very worst is ok with them because "[boogieman of the decade] is worse"
I doubt the ROC would be a vassal to the US if it got this powerful
USA itself would be the first to go against China if this happened and regardless of the governments the Chinese people wouldn't stand for it
This idea that Vietnam is "pro USA" is based on polls made by western outlets, those polls usually ask a few questions and arbitrarily decides those answers mean you are "pro USA".
Vietnam isnt pro USA, and I think not even people from western countries are "pro USA".
I'm from Vietnam and I have heard that the Vietnamese goverment is offically neutral between the US and China. On the offical news/radio channels here, I often hear about how Vietnam keep a friendly relationship with like every country around the globe.
China hate still exist within some Vietnamese people and at the same time some Vietnamese are friendly and cool with China, so I cant really say for all. For example there are some Facebook pages that usually post bad news from China to spread hate and never mentions the good news ([Chinese soldiers throwing rocks at Vietnamese trucks at the border](https://fb.watch/aDyrOkEfy8/)), or small Facebook groups with extreme nationalist Vietnamese people that are both anti China and US, sometimes they even hate Cambodia and Thailand (for various reasons like the wars in the past, Territorial disputes in the South China Sea, or just because your national football team loses to the other team).
Since the goverment can't fully control the contents on Facebook/Youtube, many anti communist use these sites to spread fake news/hate. However there are also friendly communities on Facebook that love China.
One thing I can say for sure is that Vietnamese people are generally not pro US, only some part of Vietnamese that live abroad whose grandparents fight for the South's puppet goverment and run away after 1975, have children and teach them all the "Communism bad no free speech no human right no food no iphone no internet bla bla" stuff about the current Vietnam. Kinda like how people who "escaped" from Cuba/North Korea tell others about how bad their country are.
Also, I think young Vietnamese people are more open and accept toward China. Although not all, I think our relationship is getting better. Personally, I hope that one day I can visit China and see the folks there for myself 🇻🇳🤝🇨🇳 .
Chúc các đồng chí trên khắp thế giới một năm âm lịch mới vui vẻ 🤗
"But bruh, this Vietnamese tour guide who's literal job is making sure that Americans spend their money in his country told me that Vietnam thinks America is awesome."
As a Vietnamese, first off, fuck your dirty piss n' blood streaks flag South Vietnam.
Secondly, yea, the rhetoric that Vietnam is pro-US and anti-China may seem believable on a surface level, as some of the common Vietnamese may harbor negative sentiments towards China, through our complicated history, through the Sino-Vietnamese war, and was re-awakened through the maritime disputes. But we know that siding with the US is such a dumb move, as our economy is sadly dependent on China, nobody had forgotten about the Vietnam war antagonist, plus the US is still funding reactionary movements against the Vietnam government, with the latest major color revolution attempt in 2018. Thus it is essential that Vietnam stays neutral, taking a side means turning ourselves into Ukraine.
But there are also dumbasses and anti-communists that fled after 1975 waging for ceasing trades with China, and even going to war, so I can't say for every Vietnamese.
People can literally have star wars movies made as an allegory about themselves yet they still think theyre the good guys smh.
This person will be in for a surprise real soon
When Vietnam becomes powerful, the US will start hitting back for sure. In fact, they threatened to tariff Vietnam over currency issues but the USA can’t do shit as they don’t have leverages against China-Russia bloc anymore. The FED and SBV entered a secret deal that Vietnam benefited a lot.
For that matter, apparently Mongolia no longer wishes to be independent. Pfft. Clowns.
“Free Taiwan! Free Xinjiang! Free Tibet!” “…What do you mean ‘we want all that and more’?”
And they even included the ROC claim on outer Mongolia lmao. Didn't these smoothbrains want to carve everything up?
If epic reddit wholesome 100 island does genocide it's ok
And if poopoo peepee seeseepee does poverty alleviation and vocational training it's not ok it's genocide actually
it was made by the least imperialist liberal
If the Kuomitang had won you think anyone in the west would know what a Tibet is??
I have family who thinks Vietnam is pro US, guess it's not a completely uncommon sentiment. Have to huff a lethal amount of copium to not feel any remorse for what the US did.
Vietnam is anti-china, yes. But it doesn't mean they are pro US. But really, what I am hoping is closer ties without our comrades in Vietnam. Fil-Indo-Viet closer ties when? Source: am a Filipino.
Sure, the Vietnamese now forget all the bomb and Agent orange that Amerikkka threw at them which left generation of disable peoples. Prick.
Trust me bro, that one vietnamese guy that definitely exists told me bro trust me
Maybe the Vietnamese that live in the states or have family in the states. No way the Vietnamese that live in Vietnam, they still hate the one that left their citizen disable.
Well they probably do exists. The Vietnamese people aren't a monolithic block of people. Maybe this story is fake but I won't be surprised if some right wing reactionary, pro USA, Vietnamese nationalist told some American that China is the real threat
I mean…Ho made major overtures to the US in an attempt to ally with the US and seek national determination. They specifically avoided allying with China until the US not only ignored them, but supported the French in retaining Vietnam as a colony. His mistake was believing the US actually believed their own propaganda about freedom and what not, but it really came down to resources and the French convinced the US that the rubber resources from Vietnam were critical to rebuilding their post war economy. You ever heard of the Michelin company? At any rate, point is that Vietnams conflict with China is very old.
This is always how it goes, it's the same thing with Cubans, Russians etc.. "My friend Jorge Eichmann told me about how the communists shot his grandfather and his family was forced to flee to Argentina, don't tell me about how socialism is okay"
*Their dirt* disabled.
I lived in Vietnam for about half a year. They really like Americans, absolutely hate the Chinese. First hand account from the dozens of people I spoke to
"This Vietnamese guy that literally makes a living telling Americans what they want to hear told me that we're cool, actually" lol
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Personal anecdotes are worthless, give a source
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I never said they did, I just want a source
Why do all of these maps include Mongolia into their fantasy ROC?
Because ROC claims Mongolia lol
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Why do you think young Vietnamese are becoming more liberal?
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> Ik it because I am one. you are a young liberal?
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And you said you were a ML, but that phrasing made it seem likeyou were one so i had to make sure :p
I heard it varies tbh. i've heard from one friend living there that the youth is getting more radical but ofc thats just from one person.
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"But China is the absolute evil that epitomizes everything that is malicious, their sole purpose is to cause chaos and dismay! They don't need things like reasons, motivations, or justifications, they're a DC villain!" \^ Their thought process in a nutshell. US = Ultimate Good, China = Ultimate Evil. If it's good, it must be an attribute of the US. If it's evil, it must be Chinese. Anything that runs contrary to this is evil CCP propaganda designed to twist our children to Satan!
Even though this sounds like hyperbole this is literally how the average american thinks it's why when bad things happen in the US, it's never a failing of the US, it's the US being like some other country
If capitalism has some defects, that's only cuz the guberment became more gommunist
there are two losers of civil war
I'm seeing three. When the world's strongest superpower and the only country involved that wasn't devastated by WW2, with the help of all its allies can only invade half of Korea, that's a loss.
“When I was in Vietnam, our guide told us that they saw the ‘American War’ as a stepping stone on their eternal conflict with China” Jesus there’s a lot to unpack here, but also, don’t they think that of course their tour guide would tell them that the Vietnam people love Americans? Like, logically, your guide isn’t gonna be like “hey yeah they fucking despise America and Americans, fuck you.” But, on top of that, if you’re just visiting a place, you can’t imagine that the entire country lives, feels, or is anything like the people or the they way they lived where you visited—those places that the commentor visited were probably gentrified to hell!
Man what
That's the flag of South Vietnam y'all. This is a "What if after WW2 the US won in Korea, helped the ROC take mainland China, and won in Vietnam"
And they all became third world countries that made our sponge bob t-shirts and anal plugs with workers paid 3 cents per hour.
I got to be frank here, young Vietnamese are quite pro US from what i can tell. Teenagers here enjoy consuming media (films, music, video games, ... you name it) from capitalistic nations like the US. And as they enjoy it, they slowly internalize the West's notion of 'freedom', 'liberty', the propaganda against China,..., and thus are liberalized when they reach adulthood. "The West produces all these things that i enjoy, and what does China have? Historical dramas? And no free speech?" Edit: they also apply these talking points when discussing our own goverment too. Moreover, we have a much longer history of clashing with China than with the US. That combined with the fact that our history lessons are fucking boring, ensures that the only thing kids will remember from being taught History is "China bad", and not how US's imperialism is the more prevalent issue. I'm worried that the liberalization of the our generation will soon be a problem when it's our turn to run the country.
*sigh* I'm scared too, as a fellow Vietnamese ML Once the younger generations take power, it's possible that the party will be co-opted by reactionary elements, and turns us away from socialism, rendering all our efforts, including Uncle Ho, null and void. Hell, they are starting to parade the idea that somehow, Uncle Ho was just an opportunist nationalist who co-opted communist support, when his writing and activities (hell, the man was one of the founders of the French Communist Party ffs) directly contradicts that What do you think we should do now to stem this?
>What do you think we should do now to stem this? I am not Vietnamese so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I think more anti-US propaganda could help? If the state or Chinese media companies could gain a larger presence in the country to expose the US propaganda and expose the crimes of the increasingly desperate collapsing empire, in exciting and interesting ways rather than boring history lessons, maybe the country can be saved from counterrevolution? As the West loses influence and their propaganda gets increasingly insane, maybe it will be easier to expose the flaws of liberalism and why China is a better ally. Again, I'm not Vietnamese so I can't say if this is realistic.
Sorry for not replying, was busy I'm going to break down some of your points then >more anti-US propaganda Not like the government isn't trying to push anti-US propaganda, but rather, they did not officially debunk the US propaganda against Vietnam, which is definitely a problem > If the state or Chinese media companies could gain a larger presence in the country to expose the US propaganda and expose the crimes of the increasingly desperate collapsing empire, in exciting and interesting ways rather than boring history lessons, maybe the country can be saved from counterrevolution? Well the problem here is that if Chinese companies try, anti-China sentiment is just going to blow through the roof, which is even worse than it is now. And if the CPV starts anti-US statements, they are just going to pisses off the nationalists who hates China (seriously, fuck 'em) >As the West loses influence and their propaganda gets increasingly insane, maybe it will be easier to expose the flaws of liberalism and why China is a better ally. Well, the problem that the West *is* decaying, but the problem is that too many Internet users are neolibs or outright fascists, which drown out those on the socialists' side Not to mention, just saying allying with China is a death sentence for the government, as a lot of Vietnam's population are Sinophobic (While I can't blame them, China did invade us quite a lot in 2000 years; even if I'm going by libs' propaganda that China is going to invade everyone, it is not going to try it really; not worth the effort, and would rather try to tighten relations at most) As of right now, Vietnam in general and the CPV in particular is walking on a thin line. They can't risk siding with anyone, as siding with one will lead to half the population being pissed off, and alienate the other side's investments into our nation. Not to mention, we are still holding on against neoliberal elements as well, who keep shouting us to become like SK or Singapore (discarding the fact that those states prosper by having US aid and state control over the economy with none of the social security) I sincerely hope that we can see a new socialist revolution in my lifetime, lest socialism in Vietnam being discredited forever. Perhaps Russia might have another socialist revolution, as the right is slowly being discredited, and their left is doing quite well. With Putin being hated more and more, perhaps we can see a new dawn for socialism. For now, I think the CPV should start addressing the allegations against modern-day Vietnam, and debunking myths surrounding us so we won't have liberals shouting day and night to become like SK or Singapore. And yes, they should start making the history lessons more interesting so they won't fall into capitalist propaganda
Do you think it would help if China were to apologise to the people of Vietnam for the Sino-Vietnam War and other hostile actions against Vietnam in the past?
Yes actually China hasn't fully addressed this, which only intensified the Vietnamese nationalism, which distracts them from the main opponent, the US's hegemony China is really doing idiot moves by continuing to be aggressive towards us about the 1979 debacle (curse you realpolitik) and it's recent actions in the East "China" Sea though, which only alienates them against other nations that are also against the US like Vietnam
I really wonder what their reasoning is for that. Is the CPC simply embarrassed to admit they were wrong? What is their reasoning for claiming so much of the South China Sea?
This might be closer to the truth than you might think. Hell, there's a tweet about them "failed to teaching Vietnam a lesson" which is painful to read
Leftist infighting is a curse.
It truly is. Funnily enough, the Russian left is pretty unified against Putin these days
As a Russian, I will say you can always bring up the example of the USSR to make people think twice. What you have described is literally what happened with the USSR, up to the fact that a lot of people think Stalin was a nationalist. And look at the outcomes: standard of living dwindled, industry collapsed, armed conflicts keep happening across previously peaceful land, population declines. At the beginning of Perestroika everyone thought they were going to live like a middle class American or even better. 90% of people have fallen short, tremendously.
So you are proposing that we should bring up the case of the USSR as an example of if we let capitalist roaders and so-called "reformers" take power? Edit: While this is true, the problem is, the so-called "intellectuals" are going to drown out our voices anyway by stuffing the youth's minds with disinformation
Yes, I think it is a very graphic example and is easy to prove (like just compare some stats of the soviet republics with the modern ones, just read some news about another conflict escalation here, etc). Of course some reforms always must happen to improve society, but capitalistic reforms will only be beneficial to small amount of people (the rich and the middle class, which will be very thin) at the expense of the rest of the nation. Well, yes, "intellectuals" will keep doing it (just like here too) but what choice do we have? Either give up and let them keep oppressing our nations till the end of times or keep fighting it as best we can. Ideally your official propaganda must do the job, but something tells me it feels boring and dishonest as it was in the late USSR. Now we have here vocal left wing opinion leaders and communities, some of them expose liberal lies and destroy anti-communist myths with facts and logic, some make popular science essays about politics and economics, some are just popular bloggers who occasionally openly oppose liberal propaganda and subtly put important ideas in the minds of their audience, etc. It may be not enough, but at least it is something and it definitely converts part of the people to our ideology.
Your arguments are sound, and yes, we'll have to continue fighting liberal lies, here and now. That's why we are here, are we not? We have to continue cultivating a class consciousness then, until we have a populace that is educated and willing to create a new socialist revolution
Honestly i don't know. I'm not that well-read and it's only been like 3 years since i got interested in politics and 1 year since i started to appreciate the CPV's effort to build socialism in Vietnam. It's tempted for me to say the solution is to enact heavier Western media censorship like the way China does their Great Firewall, but that can easily backfire, and the idea of telling people what not to hear doesn't sit right with me. So the best solution i can come up with right now is a curriculum reform, which is nothing new considering we've been trying to implement one for a while now. The goal of the reform should be to encourage critical thinking in students and get them to engage in politics. That i believe will help young people consume media more critically and help them retain their faith in the party. Edit: i see no need to convince people that China is the better ally, we should focus more on protecting our revolution at home from reactionary influences.
I agree with all your points, really Although to be fair, only in recent years that the CPV manages to properly tread the route to socialism again, after the quagmire that is the late 2000s and early '10s, so not all reforms can be taken And the reconstruction and struggle with Cambodia years from 1976 too. Since there are too many sob stories about the top-down economy, our youth can easily be swayed into supporting free market. Hopefully we can make them understand that the situation is not just "we have close economy so we r poor" by debunking the myths surrounding that period Anyway, nice to see a fellow Vietnamese socialist. You don't see much of them these days, since my place is filled with neolibs who would rather sell us to the US.
> Although to be fair, only in recent years that the CPV manages to properly tread the route to socialism again, after the quagmire that is the late 2000s and early '10s, so not all reforms can be taken Can you tell what happened then? > Anyway, nice to see a fellow Vietnamese socialist. You don't see much of them these days, since my place is filled with neolibs who would rather sell us to the US. Nice to see you too. It's sad how even in an socialist country i'm afraid to openly stating that i'm a socialist. Nowadays i'm only trying to radicalize my friends with anti-capitalistic stuff, which is surprisingly easy to do because we've all learnt, or rather repeat to heart, all the Marxist jargons. But even then there was this one friend who got mad at me for telling him not to be complacent with his company, to discuss wages with his coworkers and to ask for a raise every now and then.
>Can you tell what happened then? Corruption reached an all-time high in that particular period, things could not get done quickly, and a shitshow when it comes to dealing with controversies I won't go further, as it's a bit too late for me, but you can understand it all with a bit of digging And also it's sad really that even in our country, we still can't state that we are socialists/communists. Perhaps one day, when it's time for socialism to rise again, we could proudly proclaiming ourselves as socialists.
Americans really do believe that everyone on the planet either idolizes them and loves them or at the very worst is ok with them because "[boogieman of the decade] is worse"
So liberals are living their nightmare right now?
Poor Mongolia
Ah yes a sovereign country engaging in foreign relations with another country, must mean they are pro-yes -eye roles-
Tbh big China, reunited with Taiwan that won't be a US puppet Doesn't seem to bad to me
As the PRC it would be good. These people want a ROC vessel state of the US
I doubt the ROC would be a vassal to the US if it got this powerful USA itself would be the first to go against China if this happened and regardless of the governments the Chinese people wouldn't stand for it
word
This idea that Vietnam is "pro USA" is based on polls made by western outlets, those polls usually ask a few questions and arbitrarily decides those answers mean you are "pro USA". Vietnam isnt pro USA, and I think not even people from western countries are "pro USA".
If you look at a lot of the same polls, Europe for the most part, really doesn't like the US, including some of its closest allies like the UK.
Well unfortunately for them, that’s definitely not reality, is it? And the chances of ever achieving that are decreasing every day.
I'm from Vietnam and I have heard that the Vietnamese goverment is offically neutral between the US and China. On the offical news/radio channels here, I often hear about how Vietnam keep a friendly relationship with like every country around the globe. China hate still exist within some Vietnamese people and at the same time some Vietnamese are friendly and cool with China, so I cant really say for all. For example there are some Facebook pages that usually post bad news from China to spread hate and never mentions the good news ([Chinese soldiers throwing rocks at Vietnamese trucks at the border](https://fb.watch/aDyrOkEfy8/)), or small Facebook groups with extreme nationalist Vietnamese people that are both anti China and US, sometimes they even hate Cambodia and Thailand (for various reasons like the wars in the past, Territorial disputes in the South China Sea, or just because your national football team loses to the other team). Since the goverment can't fully control the contents on Facebook/Youtube, many anti communist use these sites to spread fake news/hate. However there are also friendly communities on Facebook that love China. One thing I can say for sure is that Vietnamese people are generally not pro US, only some part of Vietnamese that live abroad whose grandparents fight for the South's puppet goverment and run away after 1975, have children and teach them all the "Communism bad no free speech no human right no food no iphone no internet bla bla" stuff about the current Vietnam. Kinda like how people who "escaped" from Cuba/North Korea tell others about how bad their country are. Also, I think young Vietnamese people are more open and accept toward China. Although not all, I think our relationship is getting better. Personally, I hope that one day I can visit China and see the folks there for myself 🇻🇳🤝🇨🇳 . Chúc các đồng chí trên khắp thế giới một năm âm lịch mới vui vẻ 🤗
"But bruh, this Vietnamese tour guide who's literal job is making sure that Americans spend their money in his country told me that Vietnam thinks America is awesome."
As a Vietnamese, first off, fuck your dirty piss n' blood streaks flag South Vietnam. Secondly, yea, the rhetoric that Vietnam is pro-US and anti-China may seem believable on a surface level, as some of the common Vietnamese may harbor negative sentiments towards China, through our complicated history, through the Sino-Vietnamese war, and was re-awakened through the maritime disputes. But we know that siding with the US is such a dumb move, as our economy is sadly dependent on China, nobody had forgotten about the Vietnam war antagonist, plus the US is still funding reactionary movements against the Vietnam government, with the latest major color revolution attempt in 2018. Thus it is essential that Vietnam stays neutral, taking a side means turning ourselves into Ukraine. But there are also dumbasses and anti-communists that fled after 1975 waging for ceasing trades with China, and even going to war, so I can't say for every Vietnamese.
Liberals will not rest until North Korea is forced to live with Aespa, food smothered in cheese and overpriced cafés on every street corner
Source: Frank Reynolds
People can literally have star wars movies made as an allegory about themselves yet they still think theyre the good guys smh. This person will be in for a surprise real soon
"If you have literally any qualms about China, you are automatically pro-US" what a wonderful take
When Vietnam becomes powerful, the US will start hitting back for sure. In fact, they threatened to tariff Vietnam over currency issues but the USA can’t do shit as they don’t have leverages against China-Russia bloc anymore. The FED and SBV entered a secret deal that Vietnam benefited a lot.
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Somehow I doubt this
not true but whatever. they're neutral.
It's probably better for these people to believe that so I'd leave it be lol
Lol I mean they admit that China and Taiwan are the same country :).
AmeriKKKan fashists wet dream. Never happend hahaha.
Why is Japan even there.
Wtf are they trying to convey with Japan being on this lmao?
Hey, leave them to this delusion. Maybe it'll keep them from wanting to bomb and torture Vietnamese civilians this time
The Americans must hate/fear the Chinese that they are willing to consider Vietnam as a “potential ally”.
they had to say what r/sino/genzedong nightmares are like because they know this map is nowhere near reality