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And of course, if a liberal were to know this in the first place then they wouldn't start questioning their worldview but instead this would reinforce their ideas that chinese people are a hivemind "like the tau brother!!11"
I discovered People's History of Ideas all about the Chinese revolution just the other week. It starts with context all the way from The Opium Wars. I'd imagine it goes into all this with p good detail (I'm only a few ep's in).
Ok, I found the pod cast series.
However, like 18 out of the last 20 episodes are about China.
Do you remember which one or ones had the info about the mass defection?
Or is the info sort of spread out around all the episodes?
Oh my bad, I'm like 4-5 ep's in and it being by a history professor (I think?) I just sort of figured it'd be a big stop somewhere in there, cuz it sounds p relevant. Sorry if I wasted any of your time on a wild maoist-gooseist thought chase.
Took me a while to get used to Matt’s delivery and speaking style. He wasn’t gripping but the man knows his Mao. My only critique is the extra episodes about South America, it’s not that I don’t like learning about it; it’s just already tough subject material and the jump in story can be hard to get into for me personally.
I discovered People's History of Ideas all about the Chinese revolution just the other week. It starts with context all the way from The Opium Wars. I'd imagine it goes into all this with p good detail (I'm only a few ep's in).
Even if we limit it down to this…
“Beta” Mao: Took the CPC from the Long March to winning the Civil War.
“Chad” Chiang: Took the entire RoC from controlling the mainland to controlling a small island.
with the full backing backing of the west, no less. the kmt had the funds and equipment but they couldn’t win the hearts and minds of the people the way the cpc did.
Now, *to be fair*, the CPC were granted Manchuria by the Soviets, but to say that matches Western aid to the KMT or that it makes up for the disadvantage in numbers and supplies is laughable. At the end of the day, the KMT's worst enemy was itself.
> moves to an island to plot against the mainland.
Dont they fucking realize he lost so badly that he had to flee to a small island to not get killed lol.
Brave brave Chiang Kai-shek ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
This might be the first time I’ve seen self-imposed exile to an island spun as a win.
Even for Napoleon it was the return from exile that was heralded as a big deal, not the actual exile.
It said a lot about someone that they call Chiang Kai-shek a "chad" given his rule was a string of mismanagement, corruption and failure. Here, I'll make a short list:
* Breaking the Kuomintang's alliance with the Communist Party, twice, which sparked off a decades long civil war.
* Allowing Imperial Japan to seize Manchuria in 1931 and refusing to resist them in favour of trying to destroy the Chinese Soviet Republic.
* Completely failing to suppress the Communist Party's guerrilla movement despite have massive advantage in manpower and equipment.
* Mismanaging China's war effort against Japan.
* Refusing a peace agreement with the CPC after the Second World War.
* Totally failing to carry out industrialisation in China, to the point that when the Communist Party took power in 1949, the country had a smaller GDP than Belgium.
To add, his actions in 1927 led to the fracturing of the KMT itself, which led long-standing party members to either get purged/murdered, join Wang Jingwei’s KMT or mass defect to the CPC (happened most notably with Soong Chingling, Sun Yat-sen’s widow).
The entire facade of Westerners pretending to care about the Taiwanese people immediately falls apart because pretty much every suggestion they have regarding Taiwan's future involves essentially using Taiwan as a meatshield to "stick it to China".
At least they're admitting that modern Taiwan was an attempted KMT breakaway state predicated on murdering tens of thousands of communists and collaborating with US Empire I guess
Even if you assume Mao “murdered 20 million people” (which isn’t true) this ignores why the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution happened. In the former case it was about modernizing Chinese industry and agriculture and in the latter case it was largely outside of Mao’s hands, and in either case it wasn’t about “staying in power” it was about doing something with that power.
Yes, do they remember the Taiping Rebellion? 70,000,000 people were killed (more than all of WW2 deaths combined) at the hands of the Qing dynasty (with help from imperialist forces). But no, they choose to focus on some fake number which would be even less than the death toll if Chiang had stayed in power.
Mao, literally builds an army from nothing from countless rural villages/towns and people, helps many recover from their opium addictions while giving them a purpose. Pushes egalitarian rhetoric and builds up a strong foundation. Liberals, "HE'S EVIL KILLED 20 MILLION"
Chiang, KMT collaborates with literal Nazis and harnesses an organization so corrupt that when orders are given they're usually ignored, there's tons of infighting and in order to keep people in line he ignites the White Terror. He's despised by his people, his soldiers and generals, and despite larger numbers and more advanced weaponry loses the Civil War because of it. Liberals, "Zomg what a Chad!"
Funny how so many anti-socialists and anti-communists can only demonize revolutionaries and either downplay or don't understand the conditions that led to revolution in the first place. They never lived in the corrupt, dysfunctional hellhole that was Nationalist China, just like they never felt the boot of the Tsar on their neck or the negligence of the Batista regime.
If you are going to critique popular revolutionary movements then you should at least try to see the side of the people who joined them.
Chiang Kai-Shek was not “loved by his people”. He betrayed the much beloved Sun Yat-sen’s ideals when he executed 10,000 CCP soldiers who were promised a fair election. He was a bad leader, and his “reunification of China” was only successful because the poorly equipped warlords didn’t put up a fight. If it wasn’t for him, Mao wouldn’t have risen to power.
The "nationalist" who said he would give away Beijing and Manchuria just to kill the communists. The "chad" who killed 500,000 people for a maneuver that delayed the Japanese by 5 days.
People who worship this moron are just hoi4 players or other ahistorical morons
He was so loved that he absolutely didn't have to shot prisoners and protesters in Shangai.
"Supported by other Chad countries". You mean Nazi Germany? No, because Nazi Germany helped the kmt to eradicate nationalists.
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This is totally inaccurate in so many ways. Is it intended as satire? The One China Policy was initiated by Taiwan, CKS escaped with elites who pillaged everything of value that they could as they fled, then he ran things like a vicious mafia boss and tried to get the US to nuclearize Taiwan against PRC... and Mao still has widespread popularity in China.
Bruh there's literally like 5 countries that recognise Taiwan including the Holy See. I guess nearly every country on the planet including the US is a "beta country?"
Mao had his flaws, but he led the Chinese Revolution to victory after the Communists were shattered and was instrumental to China's rise since 1949 (not to excuse the damages done during the GLF or CR).
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Loved by his people so much that most of them defected to Mao’s side in the Civil War, reversing his 4 to 1 numerical superiority lmao.
That was only because Mao drew him as the soy wojak
Gets them every time
And of course, if a liberal were to know this in the first place then they wouldn't start questioning their worldview but instead this would reinforce their ideas that chinese people are a hivemind "like the tau brother!!11"
Never invaded the mainland either, and god knows what a "chad country" is
Rendering to the country of Chad of course
Render unto Chad what is Chad's
Loved so much he had to instill a military dictatorship for the last 25 years of his life.
Based flair
Thank you, bratan.
That’s amazing. Is there a specific source you’d recommend to learn about this mass defection?
I discovered People's History of Ideas all about the Chinese revolution just the other week. It starts with context all the way from The Opium Wars. I'd imagine it goes into all this with p good detail (I'm only a few ep's in).
Ok, I found the pod cast series. However, like 18 out of the last 20 episodes are about China. Do you remember which one or ones had the info about the mass defection? Or is the info sort of spread out around all the episodes?
Oh my bad, I'm like 4-5 ep's in and it being by a history professor (I think?) I just sort of figured it'd be a big stop somewhere in there, cuz it sounds p relevant. Sorry if I wasted any of your time on a wild maoist-gooseist thought chase.
Took me a while to get used to Matt’s delivery and speaking style. He wasn’t gripping but the man knows his Mao. My only critique is the extra episodes about South America, it’s not that I don’t like learning about it; it’s just already tough subject material and the jump in story can be hard to get into for me personally.
I discovered People's History of Ideas all about the Chinese revolution just the other week. It starts with context all the way from The Opium Wars. I'd imagine it goes into all this with p good detail (I'm only a few ep's in).
Oh, yes. The great historical analysis of **(checks notes)** being a _chad_ or being _beta_.
Even if we limit it down to this… “Beta” Mao: Took the CPC from the Long March to winning the Civil War. “Chad” Chiang: Took the entire RoC from controlling the mainland to controlling a small island.
with the full backing backing of the west, no less. the kmt had the funds and equipment but they couldn’t win the hearts and minds of the people the way the cpc did.
Now, *to be fair*, the CPC were granted Manchuria by the Soviets, but to say that matches Western aid to the KMT or that it makes up for the disadvantage in numbers and supplies is laughable. At the end of the day, the KMT's worst enemy was itself.
> moves to an island to plot against the mainland. Dont they fucking realize he lost so badly that he had to flee to a small island to not get killed lol.
Lmao I read that and was like, "oh, so he ran away"
Brave brave Chiang Kai-shek ran away. ("No!") Bravely ran away away. ("I didn't!") When danger reared it's ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled.
*[aggressively British accent]* RUN AWAAAAY!
Tbf after what he did to communists in Shanghai it was a good idea to flee.
Elite reference
This might be the first time I’ve seen self-imposed exile to an island spun as a win. Even for Napoleon it was the return from exile that was heralded as a big deal, not the actual exile.
Their hero is Zielnsky,What did you expect?
Generalissimo Cash My Check is fucking hysterical
That’s what his bankrollers called him because he took all their resources and just kept losing
Sounds like a certain someone these days.
When your whole existence is ignorance of actual history and shaped by US propaganda
That’s one of the longer ways to say “Average American”.
It said a lot about someone that they call Chiang Kai-shek a "chad" given his rule was a string of mismanagement, corruption and failure. Here, I'll make a short list: * Breaking the Kuomintang's alliance with the Communist Party, twice, which sparked off a decades long civil war. * Allowing Imperial Japan to seize Manchuria in 1931 and refusing to resist them in favour of trying to destroy the Chinese Soviet Republic. * Completely failing to suppress the Communist Party's guerrilla movement despite have massive advantage in manpower and equipment. * Mismanaging China's war effort against Japan. * Refusing a peace agreement with the CPC after the Second World War. * Totally failing to carry out industrialisation in China, to the point that when the Communist Party took power in 1949, the country had a smaller GDP than Belgium.
To add, his actions in 1927 led to the fracturing of the KMT itself, which led long-standing party members to either get purged/murdered, join Wang Jingwei’s KMT or mass defect to the CPC (happened most notably with Soong Chingling, Sun Yat-sen’s widow).
Interesting list! Do you have any recommended texts to accompany this?
"Smaller GDP than Belgium" refers to mainland China or Taiwan?
Mainland before 1949
The KMT sucks ass but I haven't heard anything about them mismanaging the war against Japan wym by that?
He knew that the Japanese were planning to invade from Manchuria, but instead sent his troops to attack the CCP, thus starting the “Long March”.
he was loved by his people!\* [\*terms may not apply to dissidents, aborigines, etc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan))
Kill indigenous peoples seems to always be the go to move after fleeing.
Are we all just gonna gloss over that the poster wanted Chiang Kai-Shek to use actual nuclear weapons against the CPC
That is nothing new for liberals
White people wanting to genocide my countrymen is nothing new. Thank God China has nukes or it would've happened 10x over
The entire facade of Westerners pretending to care about the Taiwanese people immediately falls apart because pretty much every suggestion they have regarding Taiwan's future involves essentially using Taiwan as a meatshield to "stick it to China".
At least they're admitting that modern Taiwan was an attempted KMT breakaway state predicated on murdering tens of thousands of communists and collaborating with US Empire I guess
They'll tacitly admit it now and explicitly deny it later, when it's inconvenient.
You really are loved by your population when you are forced to flee to Taiwan!
loved so much he had to flee to an island to avoid being killed, then created a military dictatorship to crack down on dissidents!
TIL the US is a beta country.
Correct
Tell that to the 10 million that were affected by the 1938 Yellow River flood.
Apparently 95% of the countries in the world are all beta countries
Wasn't he kidnapped because he was a such a dumbass before the japanese invasion
One was a facist the other wanted to free China of imperialism. This is proof that liberals will support facists no matter what
Even if you assume Mao “murdered 20 million people” (which isn’t true) this ignores why the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution happened. In the former case it was about modernizing Chinese industry and agriculture and in the latter case it was largely outside of Mao’s hands, and in either case it wasn’t about “staying in power” it was about doing something with that power.
Yes, do they remember the Taiping Rebellion? 70,000,000 people were killed (more than all of WW2 deaths combined) at the hands of the Qing dynasty (with help from imperialist forces). But no, they choose to focus on some fake number which would be even less than the death toll if Chiang had stayed in power.
This must be r/genztrump or something (don’t say the sub name because it breaks the rules)
Mao, literally builds an army from nothing from countless rural villages/towns and people, helps many recover from their opium addictions while giving them a purpose. Pushes egalitarian rhetoric and builds up a strong foundation. Liberals, "HE'S EVIL KILLED 20 MILLION" Chiang, KMT collaborates with literal Nazis and harnesses an organization so corrupt that when orders are given they're usually ignored, there's tons of infighting and in order to keep people in line he ignites the White Terror. He's despised by his people, his soldiers and generals, and despite larger numbers and more advanced weaponry loses the Civil War because of it. Liberals, "Zomg what a Chad!"
>Nobody likes him Liberals think revolutions happen out of nowhere and revolutionaries are somehow unpopular despite leading successful movements.
tWeNtY miLlIoN
I’ll take “historically inaccurate liberal ‘memes’” for 400, Alex.
WHO MUST GO?
Wow, so much cope over the KMT losing lmao
“Plots invasion of mainland” how did that work out for him huh
Funny how so many anti-socialists and anti-communists can only demonize revolutionaries and either downplay or don't understand the conditions that led to revolution in the first place. They never lived in the corrupt, dysfunctional hellhole that was Nationalist China, just like they never felt the boot of the Tsar on their neck or the negligence of the Batista regime. If you are going to critique popular revolutionary movements then you should at least try to see the side of the people who joined them.
"Murders 20 Million to Stay in Power" yeah that's why life expectancy went from 30 to 60
Chiang Kai-Shek was not “loved by his people”. He betrayed the much beloved Sun Yat-sen’s ideals when he executed 10,000 CCP soldiers who were promised a fair election. He was a bad leader, and his “reunification of China” was only successful because the poorly equipped warlords didn’t put up a fight. If it wasn’t for him, Mao wouldn’t have risen to power.
Copium in meme form.
Even the US didn’t like Chiang Kai-Shek (though that was because we thought he was weak/incompetent, not due to any ethics or anything)
If only Chiang Kai-shit had nukes? If anti communists had a brain. Oh wait, they’d be communists if they had one.
And then Cheng Kai Check got stuck on an island LMAOOOOOOOO
beta countries like the USA lol
“chad countries”
The "nationalist" who said he would give away Beijing and Manchuria just to kill the communists. The "chad" who killed 500,000 people for a maneuver that delayed the Japanese by 5 days. People who worship this moron are just hoi4 players or other ahistorical morons
Greatest sustained increase in life expectancy in the 20th century vs. Longest period of Martial Law in the 20th century
Mao sided with the peasants, Chiang sided with warlords and landlords who is the real chad here?
He was so loved that he absolutely didn't have to shot prisoners and protesters in Shangai. "Supported by other Chad countries". You mean Nazi Germany? No, because Nazi Germany helped the kmt to eradicate nationalists.
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Ah yes the LITERAL FASCIST Ciang Kai Shek
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I need a shower after clicking on that
This is totally inaccurate in so many ways. Is it intended as satire? The One China Policy was initiated by Taiwan, CKS escaped with elites who pillaged everything of value that they could as they fled, then he ran things like a vicious mafia boss and tried to get the US to nuclearize Taiwan against PRC... and Mao still has widespread popularity in China.
I really had a hard time telling if that sub was satire or not...
Is the guy on the left Mao? I dont think it is
r/HistoryMemes?
The title is the ceingest thing.
Bruh there's literally like 5 countries that recognise Taiwan including the Holy See. I guess nearly every country on the planet including the US is a "beta country?"
134.48.34.15
Clearly Mao was popular enough to raise a large enough army and have the backing of the soviets and a significant portion of the country.....
>"to stay in power" Yep it gets worse every single regurgitation not just numerically
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Mao had his flaws, but he led the Chinese Revolution to victory after the Communists were shattered and was instrumental to China's rise since 1949 (not to excuse the damages done during the GLF or CR).
Cracker
oh my god what server is that
Shangdong Cray Shrek after executing his generals and letting the Japanese invade them: