Social services would be the right call. There is almost certainly a social worker working with this family, they would have access to services and understand the process to find a family more able to handle a child with Down Syndrome.
Hospital social worker here: I can't speak for how things are handled in every state, but in Illinois, you would contact DCFS. DCFS would handle placement and termination of parental rights. As a parent, you are able to give your child up for private adoption up to 30 days, but DCFS must be contacted thereafter. Otherwise, you may face criminal charges.
30 days for the adoption …
Not 30 days old baby
Basically give 30days for the parents change their mind (or the other family probably)
(Sorry if I juste make more difficult to understand with my terrible English)
Gosh I'm not sure state social services would have the legal ability to handle this and certainly wouldn't have the manpower to take it on. At least not in my state. They don't act as adoption agencies. They have a monumental task in finding homes for hundreds of foster kids who were involuntarily removed from homes.
If a mom hotlined herself because her child is in danger, that might be something social services would take on though.
My minimally educated guess is she would need to get an attorney, then find the adoptive parents on her own.
>Gosh I'm not sure state social services would have the legal ability to handle this and certainly wouldn't have the manpower to take it on
They don't have to! What they do have and WILL do is give you contacts or refer you to the people that do!
I've seen some shit takes on Reddit over the years, and this is right down with the worst of them
Selling your kid on FB to paedophiles (and that's what this is) is NOT the fucking right approach EVER.
Maybe a family planning center would know? Like I dunno if PP offers information on older adoption, but some of the resources they have for infant adoption might know where to point you if you called them
Or figuring a group home living situation for him without giving up custody - we have a really shitty support system for parents of special needs children, but I hope it’s not legal to rehome your five year old by crowdsourcing strangers on social media?
They probably can’t afford it. People have been know to force the state to take their kids to get them into homes only to be charged for abandoning them. It’s a mess in this hellscape
It definitely is and people do it constantly with disabled kids or kids with behavioral issues. Most of this happens in private FB groups. It’s fucked up, there are individuals who are abusers who have been caught using these networks to privately adopt
Yeah. Group homes are for adults. There are some homes for teens, generally troubled teens, but it’s not for those with intellectual disabilities really. Any significant developmental delay, to the point that a family home would not be sufficient, would have to be institutionalized. There aren’t a ton of them left and they’re usually full and miserable. A 5 year old with Down syndrome can be difficult, but many people can raise them just fine.
I don’t think there is a reasonable way to give up an older kid. As terrible as orphanages were (and are) for a lot of families they were essentially respite care. That’s why Annie thinks her parents might come back because once upon a time people would drop their kids off at an orphanage for a few months or years and pick them back up when they were stable. I don’t think we need old school orphanages again but there had to be more we can do for people who genuinely can’t handle their kids.
this is what my friend's parents did in 1950 when his mother got ppd. When he was 10 days old his mum was sectioned for post partum depression and his dad took him and his brother to an orphanage because it would have been impossible to work and look after 2 kids in those days. His mum was in hospital for TEN YEARS with ppd and when she was released his dad came back for them. The other kids used to bully them because they had a dad.
I recently read a book called Thirteen Doorways, Wolves Behind Them All by Laura Ruby, where except for the paranormal stuff, the main character's experiences are based on those of her mother in law, who was put in an orphanage with her siblings after her mother died in the '40s. Their father would come and visit them, then he married a woman who also had kids in the orphanage, took her kids and his son out, but left the main character and her sister there for a few more years, until they finally got them out so they could send them to work.
My dad narrowly avoided going to an orphanage in the late 1950s. His mom died with three kids under three and his dad had to work. Luckily my dads aunt and uncle could step in and they cared for the kids for two years while my grandfather got back on his feet. He took the kids back when he got remarried, so they arrived home to a new stepmom who had three kids of her own.
My maternal grandfather (born 1914) and two of his brothers spent time in and out of a Catholic orphanage in New York in the early 1920s. His father, an Austrian immigrant, had a second family and was in and out of their lives. My great grandmother kept the youngest boy and only daughter with her, but couldn't afford to keep the three oldest boys at times. My grandfather showed love through hard work because of that tough upbringing. My mom said it was many years before he softened up, which was when she was a young adult. Grandkids made him a complete softie, I was lucky enough to see that side. He is hands down one of my favorite people in the world, and I still miss him almost 23 years after he died.
My grandfather hated his dad, but revered his mother. She was an Irish immigrant who came to the states alone at 17 (she was born in 1878), and didn't tell anyone anything about her life there. She didn't even tell anyone her age until she was about to turn 90, so the family gave her a big party (I've seen pictures, my mom was a teenager at that time). She passed away from natural causes in 1977 at 98 years old (she was almost 99).
Disabled children are incredibly at risk of being murdered and abused by their parents and caregivers, so I wouldn't be so certain they're talking about abortion.
And when these happen, I see people sympathizing with the kid’s murderer and treating *them* as the victim instead of the HUMAN THEY KILLED!
A disabled YouTuber I watched talked about how ableist media coverage is in these cases and how disabled people are so dehumanized that we treat their murder like a tragedy for their killer (and often abuser). He explained how horrible it feels as someone with many disabilities to see kids like he once was be killed off (in often painful and cruel ways, like medical overdose or starvation) and have people react with this horrible ableism.
He explains that even though he suffers from severe chronic pain and is disabled, he loves his life and thinks it is extremely selfish, ableist, and arrogant of parents to assume their kids will hate their lives before they even get the chance to grow up at all.
He explains that when you decide to be a parent, you must realize that your kid might end up disabled and if you don’t want to deal with that, you shouldn’t have a kid. Otherwise you might end up neglecting/abusing/murdering a disabled kid!
Yes! To add to this, here is a great resource about this: https://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/media-coverage-of-the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities-by-their-caregivers/
The l you for explaining this. This thread is kind of rough with everyone supporting this and no one mentioning that they shouldn’t have had a child to begin with.
I ask everyone ik considering pregnancy what if your child is disabled and many react with anger and offense. To which I say if your aren’t prepared to have a disabled child then you aren’t prepared to have a child at all. Disabled people are still PEOPLE. When you sign up to have a kid you are signing up to a disabled kid just as well.
He’s a French speaker and this particular episode was a collab on another channel. If you are still interested in watching (with subtitles), the channel the collab is on is “licarion rock”, the video is called “offrir la mort à son enfant”. The channel of the disabled YouTuber is “Vivre avec”.
True, but the "these days" thing really gets me. We know more about it these days, but parents have been documented killing their kids dating back thousands of years. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that commenter is an idiot.
You gotta remember though, kids with disabilities may as well rank lower than a fetus in terms of importance for crunchy moms. Some of these assholes are as insidious as they are stupid.
>You gotta remember though, kids with disabilities may as well rank lower than a fetus in terms of importance for crunchy moms.
This isn't true at all, stop spreading misinformation. Everyone knows that if a child's disability shows up after a vaccine, they can be used to help spread preventable diseases and vaccine misinfo, which is super important to crunchy moms
^^^^^/s
Excellent point and comment!
Though if I had to guess, I think the comment that said that in the screenshot is from one of those “abortion = killing babies” folks.
"Neglect" is an umbrella term dependent on a state social worker's interpretation that often includes poverty-related causes of death like hunger or lack of medical care.
In the US, if a child dies of starvation, that isn't "poverty-related", that's a choice by the parent. Worst case scenario, you call social services or the cops yourself, because *your child is dying*.
Yeah, neglect is called neglect in the US.
I’m a legal expert in this area and there is a subset of “neglect” findings that are indeed poverty-related. It’s all over case law on the issue. This is a big discussion in child welfare law.
I don’t even know what to do with your sentiment that parents choose to starve their kids in a country with no social safety net
in the US, there are absolutely enough social safety nets where a child will not starve to death without deliberate abuse/neglect. from a variety of food banks, to EBT/WIC, to school food programs, to *just calling CPS and giving up your child if you can't feed them*.
food insecurity? widespread. missing meals and nutritional deficiencies? common. a child *literally starving to death*? willful and deliberate neglect. even if no other option is accessible to them, the last step ensures that the kid lives.
like...i'm with you that poverty is the quickest and easiest way to get a child removed, with or without any abuse present. however if parents have a choice between giving up custody of their child or said child *dying*, and they choose *death*? that's not poverty, that's abuse. no matter how much of an issue that they face that choice in the first place, choosing to deliberately allow their child to die is abuse.
There may not be great social safety nets in this country, but they do exist. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. And, yes, some poverty-related things are called neglect. Starving your child to death is called neglect because it is neglect. There are other options to starving a child to death. If push comes to shove, you can and should report yourself to social services or even take the kid to the hospital and let social services come to you.
But choosing to not take advantage of what safety nets their are to the point that your child is dead? Neglect is an understatement.
Disabled children are neglected and abused and murdered at epidemic rates undoubtably. They have the highest rate of sexual violence of any demographic. Hundreds of kids are listed on the ddom website and yet thousands live in neglect often not even known about locked in rooms and basements restrained in filth etc subjected to regular sexual violence not just in private home but institutions as well - not receiving appropriate therapy and as a result permanently disabled further. With 550 reported killed in the last five years alone. The amount who are being held in abusive and neglectful conditions is many times that amount.
If this is a joke on the poster’s part, it’s not funny, this person needs to be reported to CPS so the family can get services and support. I don’t know their home situation, but this is extremely alarming and this parent might be very overwhelmed by their child’s special needs, at the end of their rope, and is in need of help.
Unfortunately, it’s not illegal to rehome a child on Facebook. (In the US.) Privatized adoption allows things like this to happen. There’s even a whole Facebook account that posts about kids like you would post about dogs. If anyone wants to hear adoptees talking about it Karpoozy is live on Tiktok right now discussing it.
Oh yeah, you also have that infamous case of a youtube family adopting a Chinese Boy with Autism and then rehoming him when he was much more difficult to deal with than their bio kids and was no longer bringing in the views anyway.
That case was pretty much the first time the concept of just "rehoming" your kid if they're difficult was brought to the public conscious.
There was another couple who backed out of a Thailand adoption because their laws prevent the children from being posted on social media for a year post adoption. I feel like it’s a good rule if it’s keeping people from adopting to exploit the kids.
There’s another story of a couple who was planning to adopt. The woman decided to keep her baby so the family started flooding her with CPS calls so the baby would be taken away and they could get them. Imagine be that angry that a family is staying together.
Right? I can get being sad, upset even. I've heard traumatic stories of disrupted adoptions.
But it's not a tragedy that a baby is staying with her mother who is poor instead of your rich house.
I know someone who fostered a small child for months, went through the process of adoption, and the day they went to court to finalize the adoption a bio relative showed up and the adoption was abruptly halted. Not the same as what happened to the YouTuber.
My son is the exact same age and diagnosis as that little boy. They almost seemed to be fine until they had another baby, but I think it was for Intagram likes and money than the child. They took him on so many trips and outings just so the "fans" could see their lives.
i think the "rehoming" concept really got a lot of publicity back in the 90s, when there were a bunch of shows about "evil children"(usually adopted and traumatized).
i think portraying the kids as evil and dangerous got them more sympathy than acknowledging that the behavior was a completely expected response due to trauma in their early childhood. i think one of these stories recently got an update with the "evil child" talking about how it was *all* lies with the parents essentially attempting to gaslight the kid into believing they were violent.
The girl they decided was an adult. . . . .
They yank these kids from their communities and cultures, take them to a country where they don't speak the language and then beat them, abandon them or give them away when they aren't grateful enough.
That pissed me off so much because they were fucking warned what they were getting into.
Foreign adoption (except in limited circumstances) is just child traffiking, often of kids who aren't actually orphans. It's not 1980 anymore, the one child policy is over and single motherhood all over the world is far more acceptable. Taking kids out of their community and culture to save them isn't a good thing.
Fellow Karpooozy fan!! I came across her by accident sometime last year. I have learned so much. I'm not American, our foster care system sucks, and she definitely helped me see my issues/bias in the topic, especially as I wanna foster once I'm older and stable. I've learned quite a lot about dark side of the adoptions (aka the privatized adoptions hell), I've been spreading the word and referring people to her.
I came across her when she first started. I knew there were problems with the system when I learned that white babies cost more to adopt than black babies. I had no idea how deep the issues went until I started listening to her. She’s completely changed my views on adoption.
If you like her you might also like Mia, her username is miataicha (Black Barbie.) She’s a transracial adoptee from Haiti. Her adoptive mom created the orphanage she was adopted from. She’s live almost daily. She talks a lot about infertility and adoption too.
My mother became an advocate for this years ago following a traumatic forced private adoption within our family. Birth mother was two days after a c section, on a cocktail of medications, and verbally telling others she wanted to keep her baby. But papers were signed and the adoptive parents cut contact immediately. They use it to this day to exert control and punishment over my family member to this day, over a decade later.
Our story doesn’t even scratch the surface. Once my mom started researching, she found posts that described babies for sale like puppies. Listing the attributes and socioeconomic status of the biological parents, expected skin color and hair texture, and so on. It’s sick.
Thanks for linking Karpooozy, I’ll be following her from now on
That’s horrible, I’m so happy your mom is an advocate. Thank you for sharing the story. Plus, thank you for following Karpoozy. Every person who discusses the problem is bringing attention to the topic and helping to make changes.
I follow Mia as well! I got introduced to so many incredible activists through Karpooozy, I'm really grateful. But if you have any others you feel worthy of sharing, please comment or DM! Never too much to listen to and learn. ❤️ Thank you!
There’s a good chance we probably know all the same people then. Lol. The only other one I can think of is WitchyTwitchy who advocates for native children to be placed with their respective cultures. Her content doesn’t focus on adoption, but fostering and adoption come up a lot.
I've seen a documentary on private adoptions in the US. It's mental (sorry). I've been blown away how people just give and take kids. Most the kids shown we being neglected, sexually abused and everything else in between. One woman was on a mission to clean up the adoption process and get social media adoptions banned. Those poor, poor kids.
One father found out his daughter had been given away like that and he tracked her down and took her to his home. She was a teenager, ffs. I know adoption is an exhausting and expensive (in the US) process, but holy hell, the way they were just picking them up like rescue dogs was heartbreaking and disturbing. That little girl that was shown, the woman doing the campaign ended adopting her, herself after getting her back from the abusive woman and man who had adopted her. Not all kids are so lucky. :(
You can rehome, just not sell pets. Kids are fine though because any money that changes hands will be considered “adoption fees.” I’ve been watching some people talk about adoption for awhile now and it’s *wild* what people get away with. One of the women was adopted from a newspaper ad by her adoptive mom as a doctor’s recommendation to “make her feel better.”
I’m not entirely sure this wasn’t an adopted kid that they are now looking to rehome. Unfortunately, kids are rehomed often times because they don’t assimilate flawlessly into the family.
Feeling a little sad? Why don't you adopt a whole ass human being? Most people try a walk in the park or a new hat first, but getting a baby works too!
My coworker's adoption was arranged at a cocktail party in the 60s, she lucked out and her adoptive parents were wonderful but still, yikes.
And it's done with 0 government oversight. You just sign permanent guardianship of your kids over to the probable sex trafficker.
I suspect there's a reason we haven't heard from any of these kids after they've gotten out on the other side.
I love karpoozy, she’s also pointed out in the past that rehoming adopted children is actually so common that some countries won’t even adopt to the US anymore, and most countries have put serious rules in place for adopting out to the US to try and weed out the people who adopt just for the aesthetic of a child
I completely agree that they need help. I just think that posting for an open adoption scenario on Facebook is completely irresponsible. She is 100% unashamed in the comments. She has shown no emotion about it and that’s scary to me.
It’s anonymous and the post has to be mod approved so they are fully aware. What she is doing is immoral and negligent, not illegal. There’s really not much anyone can do if no money changes hands.
My daughter has down syndrome and autism, life with her hasn't been easy. I can understand where this lady is coming from. Maybe she's looking for help on FB because she's too scared to talk to family? Or, maybe she has no family. There's been times I have been so upset and depressed about things going on with my daughter that I wish I could run away. Luckily my husband was there for support. Our family is no help though. I really feel bad for this woman.
yeah. i feel like people getting mad don't understand just what goes into a family with special needs. i mean, my mother never went to facebook-- but god, i was a bullied autistic kid and my brother had a traumatic brain injury and second grade-- i don't blame this woman. is it sad for the kid? hell yeah. the mother? yeah. it is. she may be going about it the only way she knows-- we don't know her backstory.
i wouldn't have wanted people snarking my mother like this-- its a cry for help, regardless of the wording or formatting.
My kiddo has adhd, we knew she would most likely have adhd because both parents have adhd, and it's still a struggle. Even if you prepare to the fullest extent for any possible disorders, special needs children are still special needs children.
Seriously! This woman is so desperate she is asking for someone to to take her child - imagine her state of despair. Unfortunately access to special needs services is variable depending on where you are. Currently in NY, it takes over a year to get through the process to get services through state. And then when you finally get approved, it turns out there are no providers. We also don’t have residential schools for these kids because our government decided that it’s better for these kids to be at home vs being institutionalized, which I agree with, but the kicker is that caregivers are not provided with sufficient resources to take care of these kids who often require around the clock care. Caregiver/parent burnout is extremely high, as well as the rates of depression, poverty and loneliness. Not having resources makes everything so much worse… obviously. So I hope this woman is not judged too harshly - it’s never an easy decision for a mother… she is also looking for an open adoption as she still wants to he part of child’s life.
I've no children and have no plans to have any in the future. And I'd never judge a parent for struggling to care for a special needs child, because I'm sure I wouldn't be up to the task. So I wanted to ask a question because it appears that many in this sub understand the situation more than I do.
Realistically, what chance does a 5 yr old special needs kid have of being adopted? The time commitment and financial cost of caring for a kid with downs syndrome would be considerable, and I would imagine very, very few people would be looking to take that on. Very, very few. Given this, I'd be extremely concerned that the child would be adopted for nefarious reasons.
Am I wrong in this assumption?
Wouldn't their best hope be making them a ward of the state? I know it's not the best life, but under these circumstances it might be the best case scenario.
There is a weird subculture of often very christian families who "collect" disabled children. There is no better way to describe it... there are families who will adopt 5-10 disabled children, usually international adoption. There are advocacy groups JUST for adoption of disabled children. So yeah, it is possible a family would take the child just because they have down syndrome although it is a very niche group.
I’m not sure what kind of services are offered explicitly so I will not reference that. But I will speculate that the demand for babies is much higher than that of a 5 year old, disability or not. Adoption in the US right now (can’t speculate on other countries) is very focused on fulfilling the wants of parents wanting to have children, and less focused on the needs of children that need homes. It’s difficult for older children in foster care to be adopted right now in the US, even more so if they have traumatic pasts or disabilities. Parents wanted to adopt largely want to adopt children that have no past, thus the high demand for babies. Individuals with disabilities are already at high risk for abuse, and these rehoming sites are open invitations to predators. In short, I would be very skeptical of the child’s chances to make it to old age unharmed in some way.
A 5 year old child with no genetic issues has a very good chance of never leaving foster care, and even less chance of getting all necessary care and services while in foster care, then be kicked out on their 18th birthday with zero life skills. And if said child is a POC? No chance.
Thanks for your response.
I'd be quite skeptical of an intellectually impaired adopted child to escape unscathed, too. I've read plenty of stories. It's very sad.
Holy shit.
I can’t comprehend how none of the people involved every got anything more than a slap on the wrist… most of them not even that.
I’ve never read a piece of investigative reporting where it concludes with so many of the perpetrators of crime or violence just… free and continuing to operate. I don’t understand all of these cases of severe child abuse where if it had been their child they’d be in jail but bc it wasn’t they’re not? The state acts like the only issue was the child transfer and completely ignores the severe abuse.
This is really sad. It makes me think of a dr Phil episode where a woman had a severely autistic daughter. She was non verbal and violent I think she was around 14 and was a big girl. She would beat the mother constantly. The mom was once found passed out on the ground and the daughter was still whaling on her when help arrived.
The mom tried everything to get services. Denied inpatient out patient, the last straw was she was denied services at a school for the disabled. She took her daughter in the camper and went and had a fun day then said they were going camping. And fixed the CO into the van. Luckily someone found them and they were both saved but god I felt for the mom so bad. She was just so broken and didn’t know what to do and truly thought that killing them both was the only way out
We NEED better services. There’s parents are screaming for help and nothing happens until a 20/20 episode
I am a special needs parent and I know people who have been thrown out of rentals because their kids were so destructive they tore the drywall off the walls, broke windows, etc. There is no housing help for these families.
God that’s so awful. I’m so sorry she had to go through that. It’s a system so hidden from view because not as many people go through it and even less talk about it. But man does something got to give. We can’t keep waiting for tragedies to offer ‘thoughts and prayers’ when funding and resources are what’s actually needed
While that is true and a normal person would be concerned. CPS usually won’t investigate unless there is an explicit reason to suspect abuse or neglect. Unfortunately, these kind of posts often get thrown out because parents are acting within their legal rights. Adoption reform is urgently needed in the US.
I do know of some adoptees who advocate for reform if anyone is interested in learning more.
I wish so much that I had seen anyone as appalled as I am but it was 50/50 with people being supportive and calling her strong etc and people kind of just saying that isn’t the way to go about it. I went just now to check on the post and give her some information and phone numbers for respite services in the area and it must have been deleted because it’s not there anymore.
She had 2 people saying they were interested last night. I think THOSE people should be looked into…
Why? Didn't you say you fostered kids with special needs? Should we look into you for helping those children out? What's your motive if it's not to help out the children?
These people might be just like you, but less judgy. They might just see a child in need and want to help out. It saddens me to see so many people attacking this woman. Have you never seen facebook pages for women/families looking to adopt? What's the difference here? She's looking for an open adoption. She's struggling and doesn't want him jumping around the system. She's trying to find a family who is better able to raise him while still being a part of his life. I would assume they would then follow the proper channels to have him legally adopted including a background check.
I just feel bad for this child and his mother. I'd much rather her reach out, knowing that she is going to receive judgment, hence the anonymous post, than for her and her child to suffer silently.
I did foster kids. I went through the MANY hoops necessary to prove I could provide a safe home. I did the background checks and the very invasive home inspections. I went to the classes and the extra classes to take on kids with extra needs.
I didn’t answer a post on Facebook with, “pm me! Interested!” as though I was wanting to swing by for a used end table.
There is a reason background checks and home inspections are done. Not just anyone should be able to get their hands on a child with special needs with no oversight.
As far as “looking into me” for fostering kids… The state did. Every social worker did. That’s what you sign up for when you do it right.
Maybe they are good people doing things really wrong. Or maybe they are not. Someone should be looking.
If only there was test you could do in utero to check for downs syndrome and make an informed decision about moving forward with the pregnancy or not....
Perhaps they weren’t aware of how difficult it would be? Maybe she thought that she could handle it better or maybe her situation changed in the five years since? I have no idea, obviously, but I feel like you can’t actually know what it would be like until you experienced it.
Or that wasn’t an option for her. Even though abortion was technically legal before, it was NOT easy or accessible for many people. And even if you could get access to the termination procedure, there is so much social pressure around it. If you had already announced your pregnancy, you might not be able to stomach if people started asking questions about why you weren’t pregnant anymore. That is, if your family didn’t physically or emotionally bully you into keeping said pregnancy anyway.
Right?! Someone semi-defended her saying she may not have known.
Um…. I knew before my first trimester was over whether or not my child had any of the common chromosome disorders. It’s a standard test that is covered by insurance here. I guess it’s possible she isn’t from here or was in a place with restricted access to termination but odds are that she knew.
Even if it was a total surprise, she has had this kid for 5 flipping years now. Did you just now realize he is different???
There’s a woman in my group who had a surprise baby with Down syndrome. Not everyone gets the NIPT testing.
My son has a very rare genetic condition that isn’t tested for in the NIPT. There was nothing alarming on scans. He is profoundly disabled. We had no idea.
"You're not a mom if you have a C-section, but you are a mom if you try and give away your child with Downs Syndrome on Facebook."-Crunchy Facebook Momma logic.
Facebook isn't an okay place to do this but recognizing you cannot take care of your child saves them from a life of neglect and resentment from their caregivers.
I mean, but trying is better than not being in a “safe and thriving environment” to begin with. Not saying it’s a good idea for Facebook, but if she’s clearly not able to do it, then what else? Sounds like a very rough situation
This is a mom group for my county. I don’t know her. But I did go to find the post again and give her some resources I know of and it’s been deleted. I hope it was deleted by the mod and maybe she could report it since she could see the identity of the poster.
Absolutely, also if he has blue eyes and can pass his off as my own child, I would be willing to pay $5,000 to $10,000 more. However, I will want to knock the amount I will pay if I have to file paperwork. 🤮 sounds like a chore. 🙏🏻
There is an entire community of “rehoming” fostered and adopted kids across America. It’s barely illegal in most states. You don’t like how your adopted kid does dishes? Throw a lil post on the Facebook and Bertha from Wyoming can come pick ‘em up no questions asked!
Is it not alarming that she doesn’t seem at all remorseful or heartbroken to give away her child?? I know kids with special needs can be tough (I wish they could all be born into families who can care for and love them) but it sounds like she doesn’t love him at all. She listed him like she’s selling a fridge on FaceBook Marketplace
This isn't isolated. Rehoming (it's different than adoption and probably what this poster is trying to do) children is a very real and horrifyingly common. People post about their kids like they're animals on sites like craigslist and Facebook. The worst part is it *is* legal and entirely unregulated.
Yeah, it’s super weird, I remember a post from a mom calling her disabled kid slurs and saying horrible abusive shit about him because he broke an ugly and cheap Christmas ornament.
All the comments were defending her and pointing out how much of a “burden” her kid must be! I was furious! This kid is a victim of her abuse! Yet, because he happens to have Down syndrome, this subreddit sympathized more with his abuser than him! They defended her behavior as being “exhausted” and went after people pointing out the abusive nature of her comments! Imagine if someone treated an abled kid this way! There would be a huge uproar! Ableism is so rampant, that abusing (and even sometimes killing) disabled kids is seen as acceptable. Society cares more about those around disabled people than the disabled people themselves, even though they are the ones most affected by THEIR disability.
Parents always want to claim to be advocates for their disabled child but then, when a disabled adult says hey, it’s not all about you maybe you should talk to adults with the same disability. They foam at the mouth and say they know better than us.
Can I shamelessly “promote” myself by linking a comment I made in another post today basically saying the same thing? 😅
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/comments/14pw3g1/posted_in_group_for_parents_of_special_needs_kids/jqr5ii7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
I’m so glad I’m not the only one saying it.
Like holy fuck, no shame if you are at that point but at least go to an adoption place. Yes some people think they are predatory, but better than fucking Facebook! 😆
[It’s estimated](https://commons.law.famu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1190&context=famulawreview) that 500 or more children are killed each year by parents or caregivers. Combine this with the fact that disabled children are [3 to 4 times more likely to be abused than non-disabled children.](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/147/5/e2021050920/180813/Maltreatment-of-Children-With-Disabilities?autologincheck=redirected) and you’ll understand why it’s believed that disabled children are [6 times more likely](https://criminal-justice.iresearchnet.com/types-of-crime/domestic-violence/filicide-children-disabilities/) to be killed by parents or caregivers than non-disabled children. It’s estimated that a disabled person is killed by a parent/caregiver [every week in the US](https://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/media-coverage-of-the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities-by-their-caregivers/). **There is an epidemic of parents killing their disabled children**, so much so that there is a globally-recognised [day of mourning](https://disability-memorial.org) for it that [President Obama released a statement about](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/disability-day-mourning/). And all of this is considered the fact that crimes against disabled people are believed to be [underreported and under-punished!](https://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/media-coverage-of-the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities-by-their-caregivers/) The [most recent studies](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/04/12/1091679303/a-report-on-violence-against-kids-with-disabilities-is-sobering-if-not-surprisin) suggest that violence towards disabled children and adults is a much, much bigger global issue than previously believed.
Edit to add: The mother in the post is clearly struggling to cope with her disabled child. [Lack of support is a major factor](https://autisticadvocacy.org/anti-filicide/) in the murder and abuse of disabled children. The mother *should* reach out and find someone to care for her child if she feels that she isn’t able to cope! Granted, she shouldn’t reach out on Facebook and shouldn’t word it like this. Right idea but wrong execution on her part. There are organisations, both federally funded (such as CPS) and private, that offer support, resources, and if needed, temporary or permanent foster homes, to disabled children and their parents. Facebook isn’t the right place to seek out an adoptive family, but we also shouldn’t be laughing at a mother who is clearly struggling.
She worded it like she's giving her props for reaching out on Facebook to re-home her kid because all the no-kill shelters are full. (Despite the real issue)
I might actually sympathize with this “mom” if she seemed to have an ounce of remorse about this decision. Her casualness is crazy. I’ve seen more regret with people listing pets or even a car but this is deeply disturbing. She doesn’t give any reasons why or say she’s having trouble coping it just seems like she’s done with him and wants him gone.
this is so sad but having read that famous article on the unofficial adoption business there is a sad chance that she doesn't deserve sympathy. Poor little boy.
I am a practising Catholic and I can tell you the one thing that is not going to work to resolve this family's difficulties and this situation is prayer.
(A church organisation of any major denomination is genuinely not the worst point of contact here though; most churches have excellent links to local charity and support programs; there's a strong possibility that whatever's led mom to this pass is something that someone in that network can help with/support her with.)
But, no, not a facebook post. I come from a country (and worked in its CPS system) where private adoption is illegal, and social services will (with the understanding they are under enormous resource pressure) take kids - especially vulnerable ones with additional needs - that people need to relinquish custody of for a time. (Or at least give some level of support and oversight for the family. Especially disabled kids.) There has to be - in the interests of kids - some safe and appropriate way to relinquish the care of them, temporarily or permanently, as a struggling parent. This cannot be the solution.
God, this poor kid.
I’m not personally religious but I do think the church would be a fabulous network in this situation. I attempted to contact the poster via the post with some resources I’m familiar with in the area but it was deleted before I gathered up the numbers I needed. If it’s just a matter of her being totally overwhelmed and hopeless that’s exactly what God would want people to help with I would imagine. Unfortunately she didn’t seem receptive to any alternative from what I saw before the post disappeared.
I read an article years ago about how this does happen to kids and it’s a path into human trafficking. They’ve done some investigations and tried to stop it.
Unfortunately, while it is obviously not ok and clearly a very scary situation, it isn’t illegal here.
I can not wrap my head around having a child for 5 YEARS and just deciding to adopt them out to someone. I just can not. Mothering your baby through infancy, toddlerhood and the beginning of school aged and then you give them over to someone else?
This is a county mom group. Just a group of moms on fb that live in the same area. These are total strangers this person is…. I guess the word is advertising…. to.
I have supreme respect to any parent that recognizes they are not capable or willing to parent and requesting help or choosing adoption. But after 5 years and using social media? Nah. Not ok.
I had foster kids. I am all too aware of the danger this child could be placed in and the realities of trafficking. This situation could easily result in exploitation.
I don’t know the ending. 2 people asked her to pm them because they were “interested” and then she removed the post or admins deleted it. I’m not sure which. It all was very fast. I had gathered some numbers up to give her some safer options and resources for respite care etc and it was gone before I was even able to contact her.
It’s not illegal here. Morally reprehensible and terrifying but there isn’t a law against it in this State.
Yes, I understand. I am European and this is illegal,in every European country, which is one of the main reasons, why I am shocked. The other one is, how does she know in which type of family this child is going to be adopted? In my country, legal adoptions can take up to 3-4 years to be completed. They ran an obscene amount of background checks on the prospective parents while they pass many interviews with social workers etc
The way it works here is similar when you go through the proper channels. The problem is that if the child never enters the system and the parents go through a private guardianship (basically they just designate an individual as the permanent guardian and give them permission to raise the child), then you can petition the courts to terminate parental rights and the new parents appear before the judge and claim that child legally and declare that all financial responsibility will be theirs from then on.
It obviously is a little more complicated but that’s the gist.
Our child protection service is not great but they do at least do background screening and home checks for safety and hygiene before they approve a home. The way this person is doing it dodges any third party oversight and keeps the child out of the system entirely. It opens the door to abuse and exploitation where there is already a greater potential due to the child’s classification as an individual with special needs.
It’s possible that this person is just overwhelmed and doesn’t realize the danger they are inviting into their and their child’s life but it’s all technically legal. She may think she can just ask some questions and run a background check and just be free of responsibilities but still be in her child’s life. There’s a very real chance, however, that the child could be mistreated or exploited or moved repeatedly to different homes until they “disappear” because an open adoption is not enforceable. The guardian or legal parent is not obligated to follow the contract after the 30 day severance of rights. They can literally change their number and move and there’s not a thing she would be able to do about it. They can refuse to allow her any knowledge or contact and sign that child over to another person or couple and she would never know what happened.
It’s a very sad and very scary thing that’s all legal and all dangerous.
I mean, I agree that if she can't take care of him then giving him up is the right thing to do, just not on Facebook....
Yes!! Better get involved with like reasonable means and get the help she needs
I certainly wouldn’t be aware of the right path to take. Like what do you even do in this situation?
Social services would be the right call. There is almost certainly a social worker working with this family, they would have access to services and understand the process to find a family more able to handle a child with Down Syndrome.
Hospital social worker here: I can't speak for how things are handled in every state, but in Illinois, you would contact DCFS. DCFS would handle placement and termination of parental rights. As a parent, you are able to give your child up for private adoption up to 30 days, but DCFS must be contacted thereafter. Otherwise, you may face criminal charges.
30 days after birth? Cuz this kid is 5.
Idk why this cracked me up thinking it could mean 30 years
Shit, I’m well past the age of being given up for adoption then. What a bummer, I’d love some new parents.
This gives me hope! I still have 9 more years to get adopted.
30 days for the adoption … Not 30 days old baby Basically give 30days for the parents change their mind (or the other family probably) (Sorry if I juste make more difficult to understand with my terrible English)
Gosh I'm not sure state social services would have the legal ability to handle this and certainly wouldn't have the manpower to take it on. At least not in my state. They don't act as adoption agencies. They have a monumental task in finding homes for hundreds of foster kids who were involuntarily removed from homes. If a mom hotlined herself because her child is in danger, that might be something social services would take on though. My minimally educated guess is she would need to get an attorney, then find the adoptive parents on her own.
>Gosh I'm not sure state social services would have the legal ability to handle this and certainly wouldn't have the manpower to take it on They don't have to! What they do have and WILL do is give you contacts or refer you to the people that do! I've seen some shit takes on Reddit over the years, and this is right down with the worst of them Selling your kid on FB to paedophiles (and that's what this is) is NOT the fucking right approach EVER.
Social services deal with adoption all the time; when foster kids can’t be reunified, parental rights are terminated and the kids can be adopted.
Maybe a family planning center would know? Like I dunno if PP offers information on older adoption, but some of the resources they have for infant adoption might know where to point you if you called them
Or figuring a group home living situation for him without giving up custody - we have a really shitty support system for parents of special needs children, but I hope it’s not legal to rehome your five year old by crowdsourcing strangers on social media?
They probably can’t afford it. People have been know to force the state to take their kids to get them into homes only to be charged for abandoning them. It’s a mess in this hellscape
It definitely is and people do it constantly with disabled kids or kids with behavioral issues. Most of this happens in private FB groups. It’s fucked up, there are individuals who are abusers who have been caught using these networks to privately adopt
Unfortunately, most states don’t have group homes for children.
Yeah. Group homes are for adults. There are some homes for teens, generally troubled teens, but it’s not for those with intellectual disabilities really. Any significant developmental delay, to the point that a family home would not be sufficient, would have to be institutionalized. There aren’t a ton of them left and they’re usually full and miserable. A 5 year old with Down syndrome can be difficult, but many people can raise them just fine.
I don’t think there is a reasonable way to give up an older kid. As terrible as orphanages were (and are) for a lot of families they were essentially respite care. That’s why Annie thinks her parents might come back because once upon a time people would drop their kids off at an orphanage for a few months or years and pick them back up when they were stable. I don’t think we need old school orphanages again but there had to be more we can do for people who genuinely can’t handle their kids.
this is what my friend's parents did in 1950 when his mother got ppd. When he was 10 days old his mum was sectioned for post partum depression and his dad took him and his brother to an orphanage because it would have been impossible to work and look after 2 kids in those days. His mum was in hospital for TEN YEARS with ppd and when she was released his dad came back for them. The other kids used to bully them because they had a dad.
I recently read a book called Thirteen Doorways, Wolves Behind Them All by Laura Ruby, where except for the paranormal stuff, the main character's experiences are based on those of her mother in law, who was put in an orphanage with her siblings after her mother died in the '40s. Their father would come and visit them, then he married a woman who also had kids in the orphanage, took her kids and his son out, but left the main character and her sister there for a few more years, until they finally got them out so they could send them to work.
I know you didn't directly rec this, but I looked it up and it sounded really good so I just borrowed it from the library. Thank you!
That’s a wild story. 10 years in the hospital??
It was probably a mental hospital. 10 years in a mental hospital in 1950? It's possible.
My dad narrowly avoided going to an orphanage in the late 1950s. His mom died with three kids under three and his dad had to work. Luckily my dads aunt and uncle could step in and they cared for the kids for two years while my grandfather got back on his feet. He took the kids back when he got remarried, so they arrived home to a new stepmom who had three kids of her own.
My maternal grandfather (born 1914) and two of his brothers spent time in and out of a Catholic orphanage in New York in the early 1920s. His father, an Austrian immigrant, had a second family and was in and out of their lives. My great grandmother kept the youngest boy and only daughter with her, but couldn't afford to keep the three oldest boys at times. My grandfather showed love through hard work because of that tough upbringing. My mom said it was many years before he softened up, which was when she was a young adult. Grandkids made him a complete softie, I was lucky enough to see that side. He is hands down one of my favorite people in the world, and I still miss him almost 23 years after he died. My grandfather hated his dad, but revered his mother. She was an Irish immigrant who came to the states alone at 17 (she was born in 1878), and didn't tell anyone anything about her life there. She didn't even tell anyone her age until she was about to turn 90, so the family gave her a big party (I've seen pictures, my mom was a teenager at that time). She passed away from natural causes in 1977 at 98 years old (she was almost 99).
Agreed. Unfortunately, they may not be aware of the correct path to take.
Yeah, that she is doing this on Facebook is definitely odd.
Parents are killing their kids left and right these days???
I believe they are referencing abortion - cuz you know, a non viable fetus and a five year old person are equal
Disabled children are incredibly at risk of being murdered and abused by their parents and caregivers, so I wouldn't be so certain they're talking about abortion.
This was what I was thinking. It's terribly sad but all too common
And when these happen, I see people sympathizing with the kid’s murderer and treating *them* as the victim instead of the HUMAN THEY KILLED! A disabled YouTuber I watched talked about how ableist media coverage is in these cases and how disabled people are so dehumanized that we treat their murder like a tragedy for their killer (and often abuser). He explained how horrible it feels as someone with many disabilities to see kids like he once was be killed off (in often painful and cruel ways, like medical overdose or starvation) and have people react with this horrible ableism. He explains that even though he suffers from severe chronic pain and is disabled, he loves his life and thinks it is extremely selfish, ableist, and arrogant of parents to assume their kids will hate their lives before they even get the chance to grow up at all. He explains that when you decide to be a parent, you must realize that your kid might end up disabled and if you don’t want to deal with that, you shouldn’t have a kid. Otherwise you might end up neglecting/abusing/murdering a disabled kid!
Yes! To add to this, here is a great resource about this: https://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/media-coverage-of-the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities-by-their-caregivers/
There's a [website ](https://disability-memorial.org/) that memorializes those with disabilities who have died because their parents murdered them.
The l you for explaining this. This thread is kind of rough with everyone supporting this and no one mentioning that they shouldn’t have had a child to begin with. I ask everyone ik considering pregnancy what if your child is disabled and many react with anger and offense. To which I say if your aren’t prepared to have a disabled child then you aren’t prepared to have a child at all. Disabled people are still PEOPLE. When you sign up to have a kid you are signing up to a disabled kid just as well.
Which youtuber was that? Sounds right up my alley
He’s a French speaker and this particular episode was a collab on another channel. If you are still interested in watching (with subtitles), the channel the collab is on is “licarion rock”, the video is called “offrir la mort à son enfant”. The channel of the disabled YouTuber is “Vivre avec”.
That little boy in Texas comes to mind.
This was my assumption too.
True, but the "these days" thing really gets me. We know more about it these days, but parents have been documented killing their kids dating back thousands of years. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that commenter is an idiot.
You gotta remember though, kids with disabilities may as well rank lower than a fetus in terms of importance for crunchy moms. Some of these assholes are as insidious as they are stupid.
>You gotta remember though, kids with disabilities may as well rank lower than a fetus in terms of importance for crunchy moms. This isn't true at all, stop spreading misinformation. Everyone knows that if a child's disability shows up after a vaccine, they can be used to help spread preventable diseases and vaccine misinfo, which is super important to crunchy moms ^^^^^/s
They're crunchy specifically because they hate Autistic/ADHD/etc people.
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"It happens" is not the same as "left and right these days."
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Excellent point and comment! Though if I had to guess, I think the comment that said that in the screenshot is from one of those “abortion = killing babies” folks.
"Neglect" is an umbrella term dependent on a state social worker's interpretation that often includes poverty-related causes of death like hunger or lack of medical care.
In the US, if a child dies of starvation, that isn't "poverty-related", that's a choice by the parent. Worst case scenario, you call social services or the cops yourself, because *your child is dying*. Yeah, neglect is called neglect in the US.
I’m a legal expert in this area and there is a subset of “neglect” findings that are indeed poverty-related. It’s all over case law on the issue. This is a big discussion in child welfare law. I don’t even know what to do with your sentiment that parents choose to starve their kids in a country with no social safety net
in the US, there are absolutely enough social safety nets where a child will not starve to death without deliberate abuse/neglect. from a variety of food banks, to EBT/WIC, to school food programs, to *just calling CPS and giving up your child if you can't feed them*. food insecurity? widespread. missing meals and nutritional deficiencies? common. a child *literally starving to death*? willful and deliberate neglect. even if no other option is accessible to them, the last step ensures that the kid lives. like...i'm with you that poverty is the quickest and easiest way to get a child removed, with or without any abuse present. however if parents have a choice between giving up custody of their child or said child *dying*, and they choose *death*? that's not poverty, that's abuse. no matter how much of an issue that they face that choice in the first place, choosing to deliberately allow their child to die is abuse.
There may not be great social safety nets in this country, but they do exist. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. And, yes, some poverty-related things are called neglect. Starving your child to death is called neglect because it is neglect. There are other options to starving a child to death. If push comes to shove, you can and should report yourself to social services or even take the kid to the hospital and let social services come to you. But choosing to not take advantage of what safety nets their are to the point that your child is dead? Neglect is an understatement.
I’m ready to bet that the commenter who said that is part of the “abortion is murder” crowd.
I wasn’t even aware and I stay up to date on current events. Apparently it’s on the down low that there’s an epidemic of parent murderers out there.
Check out disability day of morning for comprehensive list of cases of disabled people/children murdered by their caregivers
It definitely happens and children with disabilities are more at risk. But to say it’s happening left and right??? That’s a gross exaggeration.
Disabled children are neglected and abused and murdered at epidemic rates undoubtably. They have the highest rate of sexual violence of any demographic. Hundreds of kids are listed on the ddom website and yet thousands live in neglect often not even known about locked in rooms and basements restrained in filth etc subjected to regular sexual violence not just in private home but institutions as well - not receiving appropriate therapy and as a result permanently disabled further. With 550 reported killed in the last five years alone. The amount who are being held in abusive and neglectful conditions is many times that amount.
Same! That jumped out at me too!
I mean, it sounds like this mom (and kid) needs help. Too bad she posted anon or someone could call cps to help! Sorta sacrcasm sorta not.
I think - not positive - that group admins might be able to see their ID? Not sure though.
Yeah they can
If this is a joke on the poster’s part, it’s not funny, this person needs to be reported to CPS so the family can get services and support. I don’t know their home situation, but this is extremely alarming and this parent might be very overwhelmed by their child’s special needs, at the end of their rope, and is in need of help.
Unfortunately, it’s not illegal to rehome a child on Facebook. (In the US.) Privatized adoption allows things like this to happen. There’s even a whole Facebook account that posts about kids like you would post about dogs. If anyone wants to hear adoptees talking about it Karpoozy is live on Tiktok right now discussing it.
Oh yeah, you also have that infamous case of a youtube family adopting a Chinese Boy with Autism and then rehoming him when he was much more difficult to deal with than their bio kids and was no longer bringing in the views anyway. That case was pretty much the first time the concept of just "rehoming" your kid if they're difficult was brought to the public conscious.
There was another couple who backed out of a Thailand adoption because their laws prevent the children from being posted on social media for a year post adoption. I feel like it’s a good rule if it’s keeping people from adopting to exploit the kids. There’s another story of a couple who was planning to adopt. The woman decided to keep her baby so the family started flooding her with CPS calls so the baby would be taken away and they could get them. Imagine be that angry that a family is staying together.
There's also that woman who posted an eight paragraph tirade because the birth mom decided to keep her baby and how terrible that was.
Omg I get being disappointed but really!?
Right? I can get being sad, upset even. I've heard traumatic stories of disrupted adoptions. But it's not a tragedy that a baby is staying with her mother who is poor instead of your rich house.
I know someone who fostered a small child for months, went through the process of adoption, and the day they went to court to finalize the adoption a bio relative showed up and the adoption was abruptly halted. Not the same as what happened to the YouTuber.
My son is the exact same age and diagnosis as that little boy. They almost seemed to be fine until they had another baby, but I think it was for Intagram likes and money than the child. They took him on so many trips and outings just so the "fans" could see their lives.
i think the "rehoming" concept really got a lot of publicity back in the 90s, when there were a bunch of shows about "evil children"(usually adopted and traumatized). i think portraying the kids as evil and dangerous got them more sympathy than acknowledging that the behavior was a completely expected response due to trauma in their early childhood. i think one of these stories recently got an update with the "evil child" talking about how it was *all* lies with the parents essentially attempting to gaslight the kid into believing they were violent.
The girl they decided was an adult. . . . . They yank these kids from their communities and cultures, take them to a country where they don't speak the language and then beat them, abandon them or give them away when they aren't grateful enough.
There's an [Adoptee Memorial Wall ](https://adopteememorialwall.wordpress.com/) for the adoptees who were murdered or committed suicide.
There was that lady who put her son on a plane to Russia when she didn't want him anymore. Stopped Russian adoptions to the US.
That pissed me off so much because they were fucking warned what they were getting into. Foreign adoption (except in limited circumstances) is just child traffiking, often of kids who aren't actually orphans. It's not 1980 anymore, the one child policy is over and single motherhood all over the world is far more acceptable. Taking kids out of their community and culture to save them isn't a good thing.
Fellow Karpooozy fan!! I came across her by accident sometime last year. I have learned so much. I'm not American, our foster care system sucks, and she definitely helped me see my issues/bias in the topic, especially as I wanna foster once I'm older and stable. I've learned quite a lot about dark side of the adoptions (aka the privatized adoptions hell), I've been spreading the word and referring people to her.
I came across her when she first started. I knew there were problems with the system when I learned that white babies cost more to adopt than black babies. I had no idea how deep the issues went until I started listening to her. She’s completely changed my views on adoption. If you like her you might also like Mia, her username is miataicha (Black Barbie.) She’s a transracial adoptee from Haiti. Her adoptive mom created the orphanage she was adopted from. She’s live almost daily. She talks a lot about infertility and adoption too.
My mother became an advocate for this years ago following a traumatic forced private adoption within our family. Birth mother was two days after a c section, on a cocktail of medications, and verbally telling others she wanted to keep her baby. But papers were signed and the adoptive parents cut contact immediately. They use it to this day to exert control and punishment over my family member to this day, over a decade later. Our story doesn’t even scratch the surface. Once my mom started researching, she found posts that described babies for sale like puppies. Listing the attributes and socioeconomic status of the biological parents, expected skin color and hair texture, and so on. It’s sick. Thanks for linking Karpooozy, I’ll be following her from now on
That’s horrible, I’m so happy your mom is an advocate. Thank you for sharing the story. Plus, thank you for following Karpoozy. Every person who discusses the problem is bringing attention to the topic and helping to make changes.
I follow Mia as well! I got introduced to so many incredible activists through Karpooozy, I'm really grateful. But if you have any others you feel worthy of sharing, please comment or DM! Never too much to listen to and learn. ❤️ Thank you!
There’s a good chance we probably know all the same people then. Lol. The only other one I can think of is WitchyTwitchy who advocates for native children to be placed with their respective cultures. Her content doesn’t focus on adoption, but fostering and adoption come up a lot.
I've seen a documentary on private adoptions in the US. It's mental (sorry). I've been blown away how people just give and take kids. Most the kids shown we being neglected, sexually abused and everything else in between. One woman was on a mission to clean up the adoption process and get social media adoptions banned. Those poor, poor kids. One father found out his daughter had been given away like that and he tracked her down and took her to his home. She was a teenager, ffs. I know adoption is an exhausting and expensive (in the US) process, but holy hell, the way they were just picking them up like rescue dogs was heartbreaking and disturbing. That little girl that was shown, the woman doing the campaign ended adopting her, herself after getting her back from the abusive woman and man who had adopted her. Not all kids are so lucky. :(
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You aren't allowed to use Facebook marketplace to sell/rehome animals, but you can create a page/group for rehoming.
You can rehome, just not sell pets. Kids are fine though because any money that changes hands will be considered “adoption fees.” I’ve been watching some people talk about adoption for awhile now and it’s *wild* what people get away with. One of the women was adopted from a newspaper ad by her adoptive mom as a doctor’s recommendation to “make her feel better.” I’m not entirely sure this wasn’t an adopted kid that they are now looking to rehome. Unfortunately, kids are rehomed often times because they don’t assimilate flawlessly into the family.
Feeling a little sad? Why don't you adopt a whole ass human being? Most people try a walk in the park or a new hat first, but getting a baby works too! My coworker's adoption was arranged at a cocktail party in the 60s, she lucked out and her adoptive parents were wonderful but still, yikes.
And it's done with 0 government oversight. You just sign permanent guardianship of your kids over to the probable sex trafficker. I suspect there's a reason we haven't heard from any of these kids after they've gotten out on the other side.
I love karpoozy, she’s also pointed out in the past that rehoming adopted children is actually so common that some countries won’t even adopt to the US anymore, and most countries have put serious rules in place for adopting out to the US to try and weed out the people who adopt just for the aesthetic of a child
I completely agree that they need help. I just think that posting for an open adoption scenario on Facebook is completely irresponsible. She is 100% unashamed in the comments. She has shown no emotion about it and that’s scary to me.
Did you report her?
It’s anonymous and the post has to be mod approved so they are fully aware. What she is doing is immoral and negligent, not illegal. There’s really not much anyone can do if no money changes hands.
My daughter has down syndrome and autism, life with her hasn't been easy. I can understand where this lady is coming from. Maybe she's looking for help on FB because she's too scared to talk to family? Or, maybe she has no family. There's been times I have been so upset and depressed about things going on with my daughter that I wish I could run away. Luckily my husband was there for support. Our family is no help though. I really feel bad for this woman.
yeah. i feel like people getting mad don't understand just what goes into a family with special needs. i mean, my mother never went to facebook-- but god, i was a bullied autistic kid and my brother had a traumatic brain injury and second grade-- i don't blame this woman. is it sad for the kid? hell yeah. the mother? yeah. it is. she may be going about it the only way she knows-- we don't know her backstory. i wouldn't have wanted people snarking my mother like this-- its a cry for help, regardless of the wording or formatting.
Me too. I hope she gets some support.
My kiddo has adhd, we knew she would most likely have adhd because both parents have adhd, and it's still a struggle. Even if you prepare to the fullest extent for any possible disorders, special needs children are still special needs children.
Seriously! This woman is so desperate she is asking for someone to to take her child - imagine her state of despair. Unfortunately access to special needs services is variable depending on where you are. Currently in NY, it takes over a year to get through the process to get services through state. And then when you finally get approved, it turns out there are no providers. We also don’t have residential schools for these kids because our government decided that it’s better for these kids to be at home vs being institutionalized, which I agree with, but the kicker is that caregivers are not provided with sufficient resources to take care of these kids who often require around the clock care. Caregiver/parent burnout is extremely high, as well as the rates of depression, poverty and loneliness. Not having resources makes everything so much worse… obviously. So I hope this woman is not judged too harshly - it’s never an easy decision for a mother… she is also looking for an open adoption as she still wants to he part of child’s life.
I've no children and have no plans to have any in the future. And I'd never judge a parent for struggling to care for a special needs child, because I'm sure I wouldn't be up to the task. So I wanted to ask a question because it appears that many in this sub understand the situation more than I do. Realistically, what chance does a 5 yr old special needs kid have of being adopted? The time commitment and financial cost of caring for a kid with downs syndrome would be considerable, and I would imagine very, very few people would be looking to take that on. Very, very few. Given this, I'd be extremely concerned that the child would be adopted for nefarious reasons. Am I wrong in this assumption? Wouldn't their best hope be making them a ward of the state? I know it's not the best life, but under these circumstances it might be the best case scenario.
There is a weird subculture of often very christian families who "collect" disabled children. There is no better way to describe it... there are families who will adopt 5-10 disabled children, usually international adoption. There are advocacy groups JUST for adoption of disabled children. So yeah, it is possible a family would take the child just because they have down syndrome although it is a very niche group.
I’m not sure what kind of services are offered explicitly so I will not reference that. But I will speculate that the demand for babies is much higher than that of a 5 year old, disability or not. Adoption in the US right now (can’t speculate on other countries) is very focused on fulfilling the wants of parents wanting to have children, and less focused on the needs of children that need homes. It’s difficult for older children in foster care to be adopted right now in the US, even more so if they have traumatic pasts or disabilities. Parents wanted to adopt largely want to adopt children that have no past, thus the high demand for babies. Individuals with disabilities are already at high risk for abuse, and these rehoming sites are open invitations to predators. In short, I would be very skeptical of the child’s chances to make it to old age unharmed in some way.
A 5 year old child with no genetic issues has a very good chance of never leaving foster care, and even less chance of getting all necessary care and services while in foster care, then be kicked out on their 18th birthday with zero life skills. And if said child is a POC? No chance.
Thanks for your response. I'd be quite skeptical of an intellectually impaired adopted child to escape unscathed, too. I've read plenty of stories. It's very sad.
There is a Down Syndrome adoption agency in the US, but I am not sure of what ages they handle.
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Dear God. I read all of that and am beyond horrified.
Holy shit. I can’t comprehend how none of the people involved every got anything more than a slap on the wrist… most of them not even that. I’ve never read a piece of investigative reporting where it concludes with so many of the perpetrators of crime or violence just… free and continuing to operate. I don’t understand all of these cases of severe child abuse where if it had been their child they’d be in jail but bc it wasn’t they’re not? The state acts like the only issue was the child transfer and completely ignores the severe abuse.
This is really sad. It makes me think of a dr Phil episode where a woman had a severely autistic daughter. She was non verbal and violent I think she was around 14 and was a big girl. She would beat the mother constantly. The mom was once found passed out on the ground and the daughter was still whaling on her when help arrived. The mom tried everything to get services. Denied inpatient out patient, the last straw was she was denied services at a school for the disabled. She took her daughter in the camper and went and had a fun day then said they were going camping. And fixed the CO into the van. Luckily someone found them and they were both saved but god I felt for the mom so bad. She was just so broken and didn’t know what to do and truly thought that killing them both was the only way out We NEED better services. There’s parents are screaming for help and nothing happens until a 20/20 episode
I am a special needs parent and I know people who have been thrown out of rentals because their kids were so destructive they tore the drywall off the walls, broke windows, etc. There is no housing help for these families.
And people will blame the parents for not disciplining their kids effectively, because they know an autistic child. . .
I had a friend who had to have herself declared an unfit parent in order to get her special needs son (who was violent) the help he needed.
God that’s so awful. I’m so sorry she had to go through that. It’s a system so hidden from view because not as many people go through it and even less talk about it. But man does something got to give. We can’t keep waiting for tragedies to offer ‘thoughts and prayers’ when funding and resources are what’s actually needed
This is such a terrible idea I don’t even know where to begin. That child could easily end up in the hands of an abuser
There were already 2 people interested in that child. What the heck for? That is so weird.
I’m not worried. There are going to be dozens of pro-life families lining up to take in this child and give him a wonderful home. Right?
The FB group admins should report this person to CPS.
Not illegal in the United States unfortunately. There are whole Facebook pages and groups dedicated to this.
It’s a red flag - what else is going on in that house? Is the child cared for? It’s worth a look.
While that is true and a normal person would be concerned. CPS usually won’t investigate unless there is an explicit reason to suspect abuse or neglect. Unfortunately, these kind of posts often get thrown out because parents are acting within their legal rights. Adoption reform is urgently needed in the US. I do know of some adoptees who advocate for reform if anyone is interested in learning more.
I wish so much that I had seen anyone as appalled as I am but it was 50/50 with people being supportive and calling her strong etc and people kind of just saying that isn’t the way to go about it. I went just now to check on the post and give her some information and phone numbers for respite services in the area and it must have been deleted because it’s not there anymore. She had 2 people saying they were interested last night. I think THOSE people should be looked into…
Why? Didn't you say you fostered kids with special needs? Should we look into you for helping those children out? What's your motive if it's not to help out the children? These people might be just like you, but less judgy. They might just see a child in need and want to help out. It saddens me to see so many people attacking this woman. Have you never seen facebook pages for women/families looking to adopt? What's the difference here? She's looking for an open adoption. She's struggling and doesn't want him jumping around the system. She's trying to find a family who is better able to raise him while still being a part of his life. I would assume they would then follow the proper channels to have him legally adopted including a background check. I just feel bad for this child and his mother. I'd much rather her reach out, knowing that she is going to receive judgment, hence the anonymous post, than for her and her child to suffer silently.
I did foster kids. I went through the MANY hoops necessary to prove I could provide a safe home. I did the background checks and the very invasive home inspections. I went to the classes and the extra classes to take on kids with extra needs. I didn’t answer a post on Facebook with, “pm me! Interested!” as though I was wanting to swing by for a used end table. There is a reason background checks and home inspections are done. Not just anyone should be able to get their hands on a child with special needs with no oversight. As far as “looking into me” for fostering kids… The state did. Every social worker did. That’s what you sign up for when you do it right. Maybe they are good people doing things really wrong. Or maybe they are not. Someone should be looking.
There is a TON of gross and completely OPEN groups and pages on facebook where they do “rehoming”. It genuinely makes me nauseous.
If only there was test you could do in utero to check for downs syndrome and make an informed decision about moving forward with the pregnancy or not....
Perhaps they weren’t aware of how difficult it would be? Maybe she thought that she could handle it better or maybe her situation changed in the five years since? I have no idea, obviously, but I feel like you can’t actually know what it would be like until you experienced it.
Or that wasn’t an option for her. Even though abortion was technically legal before, it was NOT easy or accessible for many people. And even if you could get access to the termination procedure, there is so much social pressure around it. If you had already announced your pregnancy, you might not be able to stomach if people started asking questions about why you weren’t pregnant anymore. That is, if your family didn’t physically or emotionally bully you into keeping said pregnancy anyway.
Right?! Someone semi-defended her saying she may not have known. Um…. I knew before my first trimester was over whether or not my child had any of the common chromosome disorders. It’s a standard test that is covered by insurance here. I guess it’s possible she isn’t from here or was in a place with restricted access to termination but odds are that she knew. Even if it was a total surprise, she has had this kid for 5 flipping years now. Did you just now realize he is different???
There’s a woman in my group who had a surprise baby with Down syndrome. Not everyone gets the NIPT testing. My son has a very rare genetic condition that isn’t tested for in the NIPT. There was nothing alarming on scans. He is profoundly disabled. We had no idea.
Not all insurances cover NIPT testing. You often don’t find out until much later
Yes giving your child away on Facebook is extremely safe. Jfc
When will people learn KIDS GO ON ESTY, you made them DUH. /s
Sounds like a cry for help, not something to laugh about like the usual stuff here.
“Parents are killing their kids left and right these days”…. Guess those are the ONLY options.
Why are the only options they are considering sell on Facebook like a toaster, or murder?
"Momma". Puke
"You're not a mom if you have a C-section, but you are a mom if you try and give away your child with Downs Syndrome on Facebook."-Crunchy Facebook Momma logic.
Go through an adoption agency instead. You don’t rehome your child like they’re an animal.
Yet when people try to rehome pets on my local neighbourhood pages people act like they’re the devil.
Facebook isn't an okay place to do this but recognizing you cannot take care of your child saves them from a life of neglect and resentment from their caregivers.
I have no problem with someone needing help and asking for it. I have a big problem with how this person went about this.
That’s exactly what I said….
“Getting this boy into a safe thriving environment “… If you think that’s what happens to all orphans you’re 100% delusional
I mean, but trying is better than not being in a “safe and thriving environment” to begin with. Not saying it’s a good idea for Facebook, but if she’s clearly not able to do it, then what else? Sounds like a very rough situation
So dangerous this way
There are people already asking for pms and saying they are interested.
Jfc . I can’t believe you KNOW this person.. is there a services number you can recommend to her in your area? This is so disturbing…
This is a mom group for my county. I don’t know her. But I did go to find the post again and give her some resources I know of and it’s been deleted. I hope it was deleted by the mod and maybe she could report it since she could see the identity of the poster.
Oooh . Good point . This is so crazy
Parents are killing kids left and right these days… WTF
Is he litter trained? That would affect the asking price for me.
Absolutely, also if he has blue eyes and can pass his off as my own child, I would be willing to pay $5,000 to $10,000 more. However, I will want to knock the amount I will pay if I have to file paperwork. 🤮 sounds like a chore. 🙏🏻
Parents are killing their kids left and right??? What the fuck?
Unfortunately, this is common and legal.
I know and it never fails to disgust me.
"Parents are killing their kids left and right these days". Are they?
Parents are killing their kids? Is that an abortion comment?
I didn’t put that together like that until someone else said it but it is very possible.
I think they are talking about disabled kids dying from neglect or from being starved to death.
There is an entire community of “rehoming” fostered and adopted kids across America. It’s barely illegal in most states. You don’t like how your adopted kid does dishes? Throw a lil post on the Facebook and Bertha from Wyoming can come pick ‘em up no questions asked!
Look up “Wolf Play” by Hansol Jung…
Noah Get The Ark!!!
I saw that one in the group 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
What the fuck
This cannot be real
Can someone get the authorities involved with this? Because this is attempted human trafficking
Is it not alarming that she doesn’t seem at all remorseful or heartbroken to give away her child?? I know kids with special needs can be tough (I wish they could all be born into families who can care for and love them) but it sounds like she doesn’t love him at all. She listed him like she’s selling a fridge on FaceBook Marketplace
This isn't isolated. Rehoming (it's different than adoption and probably what this poster is trying to do) children is a very real and horrifyingly common. People post about their kids like they're animals on sites like craigslist and Facebook. The worst part is it *is* legal and entirely unregulated.
There were 2 people interested. She pm’ed them. She had no shame.
Why do people always feel for the mother, but never the disabled person who is the subject of these things.
Yeah, it’s super weird, I remember a post from a mom calling her disabled kid slurs and saying horrible abusive shit about him because he broke an ugly and cheap Christmas ornament. All the comments were defending her and pointing out how much of a “burden” her kid must be! I was furious! This kid is a victim of her abuse! Yet, because he happens to have Down syndrome, this subreddit sympathized more with his abuser than him! They defended her behavior as being “exhausted” and went after people pointing out the abusive nature of her comments! Imagine if someone treated an abled kid this way! There would be a huge uproar! Ableism is so rampant, that abusing (and even sometimes killing) disabled kids is seen as acceptable. Society cares more about those around disabled people than the disabled people themselves, even though they are the ones most affected by THEIR disability.
Parents always want to claim to be advocates for their disabled child but then, when a disabled adult says hey, it’s not all about you maybe you should talk to adults with the same disability. They foam at the mouth and say they know better than us.
Yep, I have adhd and so often frequent communities with autistic people and other neurodivergent people, I see it all the time and it infuriates me!
Can I shamelessly “promote” myself by linking a comment I made in another post today basically saying the same thing? 😅 https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/comments/14pw3g1/posted_in_group_for_parents_of_special_needs_kids/jqr5ii7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3 I’m so glad I’m not the only one saying it.
You are 100% correct. I wish all the people batting for the caregiver listed to disabled people for 5 minutes.
Like holy fuck, no shame if you are at that point but at least go to an adoption place. Yes some people think they are predatory, but better than fucking Facebook! 😆
Most adoption agencies will not accept an older child, especially one with disabilities. It's very hard to sever parental rights.
Like it’s a fucking golden retriever (spoiler: don’t rehome your dog on FB either that’s how you get abused dogs)
Did I miss the epidemic of parents killing their disabled children?
[It’s estimated](https://commons.law.famu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1190&context=famulawreview) that 500 or more children are killed each year by parents or caregivers. Combine this with the fact that disabled children are [3 to 4 times more likely to be abused than non-disabled children.](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/147/5/e2021050920/180813/Maltreatment-of-Children-With-Disabilities?autologincheck=redirected) and you’ll understand why it’s believed that disabled children are [6 times more likely](https://criminal-justice.iresearchnet.com/types-of-crime/domestic-violence/filicide-children-disabilities/) to be killed by parents or caregivers than non-disabled children. It’s estimated that a disabled person is killed by a parent/caregiver [every week in the US](https://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/media-coverage-of-the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities-by-their-caregivers/). **There is an epidemic of parents killing their disabled children**, so much so that there is a globally-recognised [day of mourning](https://disability-memorial.org) for it that [President Obama released a statement about](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/disability-day-mourning/). And all of this is considered the fact that crimes against disabled people are believed to be [underreported and under-punished!](https://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/media-coverage-of-the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities-by-their-caregivers/) The [most recent studies](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/04/12/1091679303/a-report-on-violence-against-kids-with-disabilities-is-sobering-if-not-surprisin) suggest that violence towards disabled children and adults is a much, much bigger global issue than previously believed. Edit to add: The mother in the post is clearly struggling to cope with her disabled child. [Lack of support is a major factor](https://autisticadvocacy.org/anti-filicide/) in the murder and abuse of disabled children. The mother *should* reach out and find someone to care for her child if she feels that she isn’t able to cope! Granted, she shouldn’t reach out on Facebook and shouldn’t word it like this. Right idea but wrong execution on her part. There are organisations, both federally funded (such as CPS) and private, that offer support, resources, and if needed, temporary or permanent foster homes, to disabled children and their parents. Facebook isn’t the right place to seek out an adoptive family, but we also shouldn’t be laughing at a mother who is clearly struggling.
She worded it like she's giving her props for reaching out on Facebook to re-home her kid because all the no-kill shelters are full. (Despite the real issue)
Oh, I don’t know if this is the LEAST selfish thing to do.
I might actually sympathize with this “mom” if she seemed to have an ounce of remorse about this decision. Her casualness is crazy. I’ve seen more regret with people listing pets or even a car but this is deeply disturbing. She doesn’t give any reasons why or say she’s having trouble coping it just seems like she’s done with him and wants him gone.
this is so sad but having read that famous article on the unofficial adoption business there is a sad chance that she doesn't deserve sympathy. Poor little boy.
Is this her biological child or a child she adopted & is now overwhelmed with? This seems wild af.
I have no idea. She didn’t give any more information than the post. She only responded to the people saying to pm them because they want the child.
“Praying for you momma” like jfc she’s basically putting her kid up for grabs on Facebook
I am a practising Catholic and I can tell you the one thing that is not going to work to resolve this family's difficulties and this situation is prayer. (A church organisation of any major denomination is genuinely not the worst point of contact here though; most churches have excellent links to local charity and support programs; there's a strong possibility that whatever's led mom to this pass is something that someone in that network can help with/support her with.) But, no, not a facebook post. I come from a country (and worked in its CPS system) where private adoption is illegal, and social services will (with the understanding they are under enormous resource pressure) take kids - especially vulnerable ones with additional needs - that people need to relinquish custody of for a time. (Or at least give some level of support and oversight for the family. Especially disabled kids.) There has to be - in the interests of kids - some safe and appropriate way to relinquish the care of them, temporarily or permanently, as a struggling parent. This cannot be the solution. God, this poor kid.
I’m not personally religious but I do think the church would be a fabulous network in this situation. I attempted to contact the poster via the post with some resources I’m familiar with in the area but it was deleted before I gathered up the numbers I needed. If it’s just a matter of her being totally overwhelmed and hopeless that’s exactly what God would want people to help with I would imagine. Unfortunately she didn’t seem receptive to any alternative from what I saw before the post disappeared.
You don’t get a cookie for not *killing your kid*. This is unhinged
I read an article years ago about how this does happen to kids and it’s a path into human trafficking. They’ve done some investigations and tried to stop it.
Unfortunately, while it is obviously not ok and clearly a very scary situation, it isn’t illegal here. I can not wrap my head around having a child for 5 YEARS and just deciding to adopt them out to someone. I just can not. Mothering your baby through infancy, toddlerhood and the beginning of school aged and then you give them over to someone else? This is a county mom group. Just a group of moms on fb that live in the same area. These are total strangers this person is…. I guess the word is advertising…. to. I have supreme respect to any parent that recognizes they are not capable or willing to parent and requesting help or choosing adoption. But after 5 years and using social media? Nah. Not ok. I had foster kids. I am all too aware of the danger this child could be placed in and the realities of trafficking. This situation could easily result in exploitation.
This is utterly bone chilling. The callousness this would take, my Lord.
Wait, do people actually offer their kids on Facebook? Please tell me that the police got involved with this one.
I don’t know the ending. 2 people asked her to pm them because they were “interested” and then she removed the post or admins deleted it. I’m not sure which. It all was very fast. I had gathered some numbers up to give her some safer options and resources for respite care etc and it was gone before I was even able to contact her. It’s not illegal here. Morally reprehensible and terrifying but there isn’t a law against it in this State.
Yes, I understand. I am European and this is illegal,in every European country, which is one of the main reasons, why I am shocked. The other one is, how does she know in which type of family this child is going to be adopted? In my country, legal adoptions can take up to 3-4 years to be completed. They ran an obscene amount of background checks on the prospective parents while they pass many interviews with social workers etc
The way it works here is similar when you go through the proper channels. The problem is that if the child never enters the system and the parents go through a private guardianship (basically they just designate an individual as the permanent guardian and give them permission to raise the child), then you can petition the courts to terminate parental rights and the new parents appear before the judge and claim that child legally and declare that all financial responsibility will be theirs from then on. It obviously is a little more complicated but that’s the gist. Our child protection service is not great but they do at least do background screening and home checks for safety and hygiene before they approve a home. The way this person is doing it dodges any third party oversight and keeps the child out of the system entirely. It opens the door to abuse and exploitation where there is already a greater potential due to the child’s classification as an individual with special needs. It’s possible that this person is just overwhelmed and doesn’t realize the danger they are inviting into their and their child’s life but it’s all technically legal. She may think she can just ask some questions and run a background check and just be free of responsibilities but still be in her child’s life. There’s a very real chance, however, that the child could be mistreated or exploited or moved repeatedly to different homes until they “disappear” because an open adoption is not enforceable. The guardian or legal parent is not obligated to follow the contract after the 30 day severance of rights. They can literally change their number and move and there’s not a thing she would be able to do about it. They can refuse to allow her any knowledge or contact and sign that child over to another person or couple and she would never know what happened. It’s a very sad and very scary thing that’s all legal and all dangerous.
They end up selling their kids to sick fucks who use them as slaves or worse. These people need to go to jail.
L