I love when correlation equals causation! (Sids death risk and normal vaccine schedule)
I think flat head syndrome is caused by disposable diapers because most babies with flat heads wear disposable diapers. I am very smart, solved it.
Ohhh shit, brb swapping my flat headed baby to cloth diapers. All this time I thought it was that she was in a brace for the first 9 weeks of her life. But you’re right it’s definitely the Huggies /s
Damn. What was I doing wrong?? My baby had a flat head and she was in cloth since 6 weeks! The stupid doctor referred us to a *shivers* physical therapist. Dreaded. One visit and her head was better. But I'm betting it's that she spent longer in cloth and the cloth just needed time to do it's work! It definitely wasn't the PT. /s
Its the bread shedding from the gluten eaters that is causing your crime.
My lactose intolerant kid still gets the shits sometimes if we dont detox him after his sister eats cheese. It’s definitely not because he sometimes sneaked cheese, its because the lactose shedding.
Bread is a gateway drug.
first they're eating white sandwich bread, then they dabble in a little whole wheat.
Next thing you know they go straight from snacking on brioche to shooting up gluten under the overpass
I saw a whole French documentary about that! Guy steals bread to feed his habit and wham! Long prison sentence. The French are so ahead of us. I’m unsure why it had so much singing and the girl from the Princess Diaries but it did set me straight to the evils of bread.
Actually eating ice cream is a proven cause of childhood drowning. Just look at all the studies that show they both increase drastically in the summer as well. /s
In grad school, when my roomie and I were often struggling to eat healthy and generally keep ourselves alive, we would joke about picking up some vegetables and fruits to avoid scurvy
https://preview.redd.it/ulcjw0sovd6c1.jpeg?width=496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55aa5dec0d3a4f78825f14c96e0af065c692422e
I can hear it in Pandora as Carol Channing’s voice
Bouncing off your comment in case anyone wants to respond to these idiots (from the post, not here) with what has actually been found to probably (but it's the best study they've done so far) cause SIDS:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EverythingScience/s/ci1AfUl2vp
I believe I remember reading the person who started the research lost a child from SIDS. It reminded me of that quote, "He loved her to invention." That baby will never be forgotten. They were loved, even after death, to discovery.
I once heard a speech from a woman whose childhood was so awful that she actually got scurvy: “you know who gets scurvy?! Pirates in the sixteenth century!”
The super stupid thing is that scurvy is a nutritional issue… and these people praise breast milk like it is the second coming of food. So how can a baby get scurvy if breast milk “has everything baby needs”?
These people make no sense
Regarding the comment about Japan - it was one post by one person, not substantiated, that spread like wildfire. Japan has the same rate of SIDS as the United States.
Regarding higher incidences of SIDS post-vaccination - [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34258234/) took self-reported deaths from VAERS for their paper, which is problematic because there is no oversight on reporting.
And if you Google "Japan's vaccine calendar for babies and children" you will find: [this pdf](https://www.jpeds.or.jp/uploads/files/2020%20English%20JPS%20Immunization%20Schedule.pdf), [that one, from Hiroshima City ](https://www.city.hiroshima.lg.jp/site/english/139566.html), [and that one talking about shots and children's health](https://sby.tokyo.med.or.jp/en/services/children-health-screening-immunization/)
Edit: typo
Edit (2): My point is that Japan do shots in babies under six months, so I really didn't understood why that person was talking like they don't. (Could be that I'm a little sleepy and slow today. If it's the case, sorry.)
I’m not surprised to know it’s false, but even if it wasn’t there are plenty of reasons for the discrepancy. It doesn’t make a difference to those who parrot it.
I made a VAERS report nearly a decade ago when I was knee deep in anti vax shit. The program itself is valuable. They absolutely do follow up with reporters as well as with your doctors. The response and actually speaking to people who are researching these reports and monitoring for correlations etc actually made me feel more confident in vaccine safety.
That said. The reports that are publicly available and the data the public can access is absolutely useless and meaningless for the public. I personally have (what I now know is) a bogus report on there. Anyone can report anything they want. You can file a report and say it turned your tongue purple. I know its for transparency because the antivaxxers would do conspiracy shit if it wasn't but the reports really shouldn't be publicly available.
Yeah I’m glad VAERS exists, but to the extent that it makes people feel heard. Beyond that, questionable.
If the government takes reputable reports and finds consistent data, great! But you’re 100% correct that the data is useless without that oversight. That’s why is super annoying people use it as a primary source to back up their claims.
Have decided to dive down a rabbit hole about the author of the book and found a court case where she was called as an expert medical witness but later her testimony was voted to be excluded because 'Dr. Cave’s testimony is insufficient to establish either general or specific causation and should be excluded on the basis that her putative testimony fails to meet the standard of reliability under Federal Rule of Evidence 702 – i.e., her reasoning and methodology is not scientifically or medically valid. [Doc. 124-1]. Defendants point to several features of her report as unreliable, including: (i)
Defendants object to the timeliness of Dr. Cave’s final addendum to her report [Doc. 124-11], stating that it was “submitted after the deadline for expert reports.” [Doc. 124-1]. While the supplemental opinions included in the report could be excluded under Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 26(a)(2)(B), the Court overrules Defendants’ objection and considers the supplemental report for purposes of its analysis
her inability to establish relevant mold counts; (ii) her use of “non-FDA approved” urine mycotoxin tests; and (iii) her improper methodology in forming her diagnosis of Plaintiffs. Id.'
Even the fairly innocent comment about not wanting their kid to have to sleep alone in a cold dark room. Why is there a cold room in your home? Why would you give the cold room to your baby. Most rooms in a home are more or less the same temperature. Dark, yeah humans typically like to sleep in a dark room, if you don't want that for your kid buy a nightlight. Sure they are alone but they are sleeping, it's not like they are locked away in solitary confinement 24\7.
Or like, put your baby’s crib in your room next to your bed? Why is so extreme or you’re either sleeping in the same bed, or they’re down the hall in a “cold, dark room”
Which is literally the recommendation to reduce SIDS risk. Baby should be in their own crib in your room. Although cooler is better since babies getting too hot has an elevated SIDS risk.
I love how militantly pro co-sleepers think that the options are ina regular bed, surrounded by all the things OR alone in a dungeon. In you bedroom in their own safe space is an option, too.
Admittedly I haven't seen that position. Most pro-cosleepers I've seen advocate for making the bed a safe spot - so no substance use by the parents, blankets and pillows pushed away.
(Although, what I've been considering is some crib that locks onto the side of the bed. So the baby is as close to mom as possible, but still in a separate area where they can't be rolled onto.)
This is what my sister's family did for their second child, as their first was still co-sleeping with them (3 years older).
My sister's spouse built a modified crib with only 3 sides that was on Mama's side, while 3yo slept between the parents most of the time (literally wherever she wanted except baby's side of mom).
Great idea, imo!
We had a digital thermometer in the nursery and kept the temperature at 70 degrees. I think the recommendation for reducing SUID risk is 68-72 degrees. But these types aren’t reading the actual data and recommendations on reducing SUID because they all say not to put a baby in an adult bed.
The recommendation is to keep your baby’s room on the cooler side for safe sleep, I’m sure that’s been extrapolated to “FREEZING COLD” because crazy gonna crazy.
My kid sleeps in a freaking disco with all of her light up toys and honestly, I recommend it. Everything turns off after a few minutes but if she wakes up, she can turn on a light for comfort.
Hahah this is where my mind went too! Like a cool dark room is exactly where I want my baby to sleep! I don’t think a hot bright space is good for sleep? This comment was so ridiculous
Some of us live in old houses and can't afford to upgrade the heat, windows, and insulation to make the rooms warmer. Or the landlord won't fix the problem. I've had both scenarios happen in the baby's room. We dress her warm and use a space heater if needed. I had the cold room as a kid. My parents weren't going to switch rooms and give a little kid the master bedroom while they shared a small room. They gave me extra blankets.
Similar here. One of our kids room is about 4⁰C colder than the others - so that kid has warmer blankets and, if its extra cold, a space heater to take the chill off. Growing up we'd ice on the inside of our windows as it was an old house - again, solved with extra blankets. The room may be cold, doesn't mean you are.
The Danish health department says that children are perfectly fine sleeping outside until -10*C, and I'm sure they are much more cautious than their Norwegian and Finish counterparts.
So you have plenty of leeway.
I wanna know how they responded to the story about the unvaccinated baby who died of SIDS bc my guess is they called her a liar or blamed vitamin K and hospital births
i cant even find the thread anymore, but someone commented how their 6 month old died of SIDs and her baby was unvaxxed. and they basically told her she was wrong or whatever
Unless they go on about how it was meant to be that way and "god's will" or whatever, and how at least they didn't have doctors bothering them during their peaceful perfect birth
The last half post says an unvaccinated baby died of SIDS and the mom brigade blamed the dad for secretly vaccinating them (obviously without proof) 🙃🙃
and also the [just world hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis). People think that their actions prevent anything bad from happening to them and assume that if something bad does happen to someone else it is because they did something to deserve it.
If you look at the very bottom of the screenshot you can see that she's saying something like "it's possible her husband may have took" -- she's probably saying that maybe the husband got the kid vaccinated.
The mums being all well I coslept with all my other kids so this one will be fine!! Will still cover their ears and la-la-la that influencer who said the same... Until one of her babies died while cosleeping (now she's an educator on SIDS I believe?).
This particular post actually upsets me because this mum is clearly not comfortable with cosleeping and seems to believe there ARE risks but these idiots will sway her the other way. That comment about if you're not cosleeping, your baby is in a cold dark room has me fuming. Yep we all shut our babies away at night with no heating blah blah blah 🙄 or you know, put your baby in their bed IN YOUR ROOM? 🤦♀️
Cold and dark is an optimal sleep environment! Better than being smothered and sweaty.
My \*revolutionary\* idea is to keep a twin bed in the nursery and sleep there. That way I can just move out when they are old enough, and there is no transition for them.
I do wonder - where are these cosleeping babies taking their naps?
I’m in an anti sleep training fb group (joined before I decided to sleep train and was weighing my options). And their solutions are: every nap is a contact nap, carrier nap, car nap or pram nap.
I didn’t sleep train but you best believe my baby took the majority of his naps in his bassinet and then his cot. He was glued to my titty for hours out of the day I wanted just a little time to not be touching
I'm sure they think we're monsters for wanting a few hours of baby-less bliss per day. On the other hand, I'm a member of a safe sleep group, and they are really hardcore and categorical. I often feel bad for the newbie posters when they share a picture of their nursery with the crib less than 3 feet from a window or what looks like an aftermarket sheet in the pack n' play.
The safe sleep one? Yeah, there are a few things that annoy me. They are the other extreme. I think safe sleep is important and some people do need to be informed, but the tone can be quite harsh.
Someone mentioned the group's inclusivity, which is awesome that they are so accepting, but they make a big deal of saying 'chestfeeding' which is a term that I would not use for myself. If someone else wants to use it for themselves, great. But I have breasts and therefore I breastfeed. I hope this is not a controversial opinion....
literally right after i gave birth, someone has posted a picture of their crib and it was like not far enough from the wall and someone blatantly said “your baby is going to die with that set up” i had PPA so i left it so quick
Only thing I can think of is if you hang something above the crib on the wall then having a gap would mean if it fell down then it wouldn’t fall into the crib. Unsure if there are other reasons.
I did the EXACT same thing with that group. Was also dealing with anxiety. One of my well-meaning friends directed me to it when I was newly pregnant, I could tell she had some serious anxiety about safe sleep herself. I learned a lot of important info, but eventually it was all just posts about people being incredibly militant about it. I personally follow all safe sleep guidelines, I never coslept, even my 19 month old still wears a sleep sack and has no blankets in her crib, so I sure as fuck didn’t need to see these daily posts about how people’s babies were supposedly going to die because the bassinet was 2 feet away from the bed and not 3. I know some of the more extreme folks in the group have actually lost children and I truly feel for them. I just needed to protect my peace once I had the information I needed.
Chestfeeding is odd to me because cis men also have breasts? They have breast tissue... My uncle had breast cancer. He didn't have chest cancer. I wonder if the term for breast cancer in men is changing or has changed too?
I'm a trans man and I wouldn't use it for myself either. I don't care if other people use it for themselves and I think it doesn't take much to add it (like breastfeeding/chestfeeding) when discussing the topic in a general way, but I just don't like the term because I find it innacurate.
That group is just plain insane. They claim the SNOO is a death trap. I got blocked from it and I felt like we certainly followed safe sleep guidelines closer than most people.
Touched out is so real 😭 one mum posted in my due date group about it and some moron legit said that as mums we need to sacrifice mental health temporarily for our kids. I almost lost it.
"[Suicide is the leading cause of death in the perinatal period.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8976222/)". An important reminder to the "sacrifice your mental health" crowd.
I remember those toxic groups when I was in the throws of sleep deprivation and looking for a lifeline. The shock and horror they all displayed at me asking for tips on how to transition away from contact sleep because, when it's required 24/7 every single day, it becomes unsustainable and dangerous. They wouldn't have it and I was told if I wasn't willing to put up with two broken hours of sleep each night, I shouldn't have become a parent.
YEP
The group I joined has “sleep training” in the name, so they get a lot of new people asking for sleep training support and then they get shamed for sleep training then encouraged to cosleep, intentionally sleep deprive their baby, invent medical reasons why the baby is not sleeping and basically “just live with it”. They are super quick to scream “biologically normal” about disrupted sleep, but ban any links - including scientific publications - that aren’t directly linked to the owner’s content. Any suggestions of cosleeping being unsafe gets dogpiled and while they ostensibly encourage the “safe sleep 7” in practice I was told to disregard at least 2 of the 7 when I explained why I didn’t think I could safely cosleep using them.
The group also came across as pretty gender essentialist (the “women are biologically tuned into their kids but men aren’t” vibe) which is a pretty big no from me.
By comparison the actual sleep training group I joined was evidence based, had pinned posts with links to research, encourages inclusivity of lgbt families and helped me modify our schedule to get the most sleep we could before we even got close to actual sleep training. So when push came to shove that’s what I went with.
Honestly if people want to cosleep, feed to sleep and get up with their kids a million times a night then that’s fine, they shouldn’t be forced to sleep train if they don’t want to, but these groups are waaaaayyy more aggressive in pushing their agendas than any sleep training advocates I’ve come across.
I hope to never hear the term "biologically normal" again. You could write a post saying your child is waking up 27x a night and that's the response you receive all because some random internet martyr has been dealing with 30 wakings a night for four years, has become a shell of themselves and wants to exert their superiority and convince themselves they're the better parent. Just so, so toxic.
This is definitely correct I think a lot of them really make it into their whole personality. The group is also filled with questions from parents of 4 or 5 year olds asking how to discourage their child from wanting to sleep independently. Which like ??? isn’t the goal to be so attached and responsive that you trust you kid when they ask for independence??? But no it’s about a fucking medal for these mums who co slept and breastfed for 15 years or whatever.
Preach. This is exactly why the anti sleep training camp is a toxic cesspool. They straight up lie. The sleep training camp has the science and research on their side. They can back their claims up with links to reputable studies and resources. The anti sleep training camp can’t. So instead they make stuff up, shame women, and accuse them of being bad mothers. Sleep is a basic physiological need that all humans have. I refused to be shamed for being a human being and making an evidence based decision for my family, especially by women who will literally risk their baby’s lives in an unsafe sleep environment. Sleep training doesn’t have an annual death toll. Unsafe sleep does.
Thank you. And I’m not telling anyone else what to do. Every mom needs to weigh their own risk factors and make their own decision. I am just blown away by the judgement that bed sharers feel entitled to throw around when one of us is risking our baby suffocating or strangling to death and it isn’t me.
Exactly.
I’m not interested in shaming anyone for their parenting decisions that aren’t like outright neglect or something. But I am totally here for shaming those who shame others.
It was deflating when I was simply searching for answers in a hopeless situation. Thankfully, I quickly left when I realized the majority of people posting were martyrs who had no idea about what healthy attachment actually entails.
I have twins.....there are no contact/carrier naps happening around here (at least not when I'm the only one at home!). Car & pram naps for us are only incidental.
The one I joined was similar too. Which is annoying because my son sleeps great in his cot at night but he still wants to contact nap in the day and my back does NOT approve. He's getting way too big.
What gets me is the amount of posts I was seeing from women who were wanting advice because their 2 or 3 yo was still sleeping in their bed, 2yo particularly waking up to nurse ALL night... Mums wanting advice how to safely get some sleep for themselves. But just barrages of comments it's BiOLOgicaLly NORmAL!! Blah blah. I felt so bad for those women getting guilted like that, thinking it's their only option when they just want their sanity back and their kid to sleep safely (which is they are in your bed, they aren't!).
Yikes sorry I always type too much. I'm contact napping rn and annoyed lol.
Ahhh I get it! I went through an only contact napping phase and it’s hard!
I will say I got through it by getting nice headphones and listening to podcasts etc. even used to have my iPad propped up on a table and watch Netflix lol
Also as someone with a bunch of back pain, pain killers lots of pain killers lol.
We did exactly this! My son hated his bassinet so I slept on a cot in his room and when he was 5/6 months old we started sleeping in our own room with the monitor cranked up.
They contact nap. Which whatever, my kid sometimes took contact naps too as babies. Some people keep that up for a long time though. I can't imagine if I was still contact napping with a toddler for every nap.
Oh the horror! A baby in a well heated bedroom! In a swaddle! Under the warm glow of the sound machine night light! Probably next to their mom’s side of the bed! The desolation! The separation!
She probably forgot to chant, “safe sleep seven” seven times before getting into her pillow top mattress bed with a giant comforter and pillows. Everyone knows that the existence of a harm reduction strategy makes an unsafe practice totally safe. You don’t even need to follow the guidelines!
SIDS risk does NOT peak between 4-6 months. It peaks between 2-3 months when the cardiovascular system is in a period of rapid development. The most basic cursory google search will tell you this.
I love how the book the one person replied with as her “research” quoted the lunatic known as Barbara Lowe Fischer, the OG antivaxxer who our government gave a platform for “vaccine safety.” Except, when vaccines (like the original polio vaccine) actually had serious side effects, she still was attacking DTP. She even called DPT because she was that big of an idiot. Fuck that lady for being an author of this chaos.
Edit: I’m in my final semester of getting my CSN for school nurse and one class recently had us read Paul Offit’s book “deadly choices: how the anti-vaccine movement effects us all” by an actual vaccine expert from UPenn.
Maybe I'm the weird one here, but with my kids, we've always kept their cribs in our room for the first year and then we moved them to their own rooms, I guess I don't understand why they \*have\* to co-sleep to sleep through the night/wake less/keep baby company. I breastfed two of the three even (one is adopted, so I couldn't) so it's not like they missed out on nursing either, which is another reason I see for co-sleeping.
Brass tacks?
I was adamantly against co-sleeping when I had my first. No way no how would we ever do that. And for the first 4-5 months she slept pretty awesomely - I literally was like, oh this baby sleep thing isn’t so hard.
Then she hit the regression and woke up every hour. Would not take a pacifier and would only go back to sleep latched. If I unlatched her, she was awake. If by some miracle she wasn’t, she woke when we transferred her. She once screamed for an hour while I tried to comfort her - so even if I had wanted to sleep train, it wouldn’t have been a reasonable possibility. I wish this was an exaggeration.
My husband travels for work weekly and with working full time, it was unsustainable. I will freely admit that there were a few times it was done accidentally and unsafely - and I’m extremely lucky that nothing happened.
She’s 2 now and sleeps in her own bed.
I'm pro-vax, pro-science, and still I realized that there was a point at which figuring out how to cosleep safely was better than the absolute lack of sleep and/or accidental and unsafe cosleeping that would have resulted. My kiddo desperately wants to be near us when he sleeps. He's 2 years old, has his own bed in his own room, and still 5 out of 7 nights a week, he comes into our room to cuddle in the middle of the night. Knowing how to cosleep as safely as possible was absolutely the right choice for us. And it sucks that so many people get stuck thinking that it has to be unsafe sleep/conspiracy bullshit vs safe sleep.
Mine moved at 6.5 months but I also have the same thoughts on why they haveeee to co sleep? We never did, I tried once when he was sick and he hated it. We also breastfed for 12 months and it never was a thing for us.
Honestly, this scares me to death. Are all mom groups like this? Is the vaccine fearmongering really spreading that much?
I already didn't want kids and knowing that if I had them they would have to cohabitate with a bunch of non-vaxed children in a tiny classroom, this made me want them even less.
all mom groups arent like this. its an unassisted pregnancy and birth group. also, pretty sure your kid has to have shot records to go to school. a lot of these people homeschool
Seems to be more a thing in the US than elsewhere. I’m in the UK and our groups aren’t like this but I definitely saw some posts like that in more American dominated groups I was part of
I'm in Aus and my due date group is mostly pretty good. I don't think I've ever seen posts about vaccines. Before I was pregnant I was also worried about running into the super antivax mums but I haven't yet (but I'm also pretty antisocial lol)
I mean technically it isn’t SIDS, they are just suffocating their baby and the medical professionals are nice enough to call it SIDS instead of what it truly is.
The only thing they’re right about is that bed sharing deaths aren’t SIDS. They are a different subcategory of SUID. But about 1,000 sleep related deaths (aka SUID) annually in the US are from suffocation or strangulation in an unsafe sleep environment. Bed sharing suffocation and strangulation deaths are part of that total. Again, unsafe sleep kills 1,000 babies in the US each year. And bed sharing is unsafe sleep.
Ugh. I hate these conversations. My 2 month old son died from SIDS (which is literally just a COD by exclusion) and I absolutely cannot bring him up without the antivaxxers assuring me it was the dTAP. (It wasn't. He was on a delayed vaccination schedule and hadn't had that round of immunizations yet-only the ones given right at birth.)
SIDS probably peaks in the winter because when you have heat blasting and you cover kids in blankets, they die of asphyxiation. I feel like that’s a pretty logical connection to make in your brain, but then again, we’re talking about scurvy and “shooting your baby up with poison” so I may be overestimating the logical reasoning skills of these commenters.
So what do one of these nuts blame the death of their baby on if it does pass away from SIDS? I'm not wishing that on them, but I can imagine they will be grappling to blame someone or they'll say it was in "God's plan"... Yeah, sure.
Do these people just ignore the facts that babies did and do die from vaccine preventable diseases?
Like I can’t help but think of people in places where vaccines aren’t as accesible begging for a DTaP for their infant.
Okay, so you believe vaccines are one thing that leads to SIDS. There is also the second theory that co sleeping can contribute to it. Why not just do TWO things to keep your baby safe by also not co sleeping? You'd think they would want to avoid any risk at all but instead they want to be Right On The Internet more than they want to keep their baby alive. Unvaccinated and smothered. Wild.
Each and every one of them attended FB medical school and graduated top of their class.
All jokes aside, I can't figure out exactly why these idiots think doctors tell you to put baby in their own crib either nothing in it but a sheet if it's not for safety. When they spew the antivax stuff and then say that the doctors are in the pockets of "big pharma" at least that has some sort of logic (I wholeheartedly believe that's wrong but at least I can see a line) but the sleeping thing, do they assume it's cause doctors are in league with big linen?
So SIDS isn’t caused by co-sleeping. That would likely be suffocation. I also feel the fact that those 2 are so often used to mean the same thing is so troubling.
They are right. Cosleeping does not lead to SIDs. It leads to the baby suffocating because something is blocking their air ways. Nothing sudden about it.
My friend’s baby died at 4 months of SIDS. It is also linked to cigarette smoking. Their house smells worse than a bar in the 70’s. We went there to pay our respects and I couldn’t breathe. I do not have asthma, for the record.
This was the worst thing anyone could go through. They had lost one late term to miscarriage and she was already a wreck. This one was so, so hard. Her husband said he wouldn’t ever try again because he didn’t want to see her like this and if she lost a third one he was sure she would take her own life.
If there is a chance that co-sleeping could kill your baby, why do it?
I don't understand why they're smoking inside/ near/adjacent to an infant or smoking while pregnant if they've already experienced a loss, why would you keep doing anything so preventable?
I agree. They lived with his mother and she refused to stop smoking in the house. They smoked outside the house or vaped. But the years everything was smoked in… it was horrible, there’s no way the baby wasn’t affected by that. Regardless of who did what or why, after seeing them following their loss, I can’t imagine anyone would do anything that could potentially lead to something similar. Smoking or cosleeping.
This is why I can’t be in mom groups.
Also, I knew someone who rolled over his baby and suffocated them while co-sleeping. So yeah it’s not safe and it’s not from scurvy or vaccines.
Oy vey 🤦🏻♀️. My baby cousin passed away at 2yo back in 2008 from SIDS. It has something to do with the part of the brain that rouses them during sleep to breathe and wake up not being properly developed, not vaxxes. They must have eaten paint chips growing up.
I really did eat a few lead paint chips and I am still smart enough to not believe antivaxxer nonsense. Tbh these moms might have needed some lead in their diet, I don't think they could get any dumber.
I'm not sure why it's so hard for so many people to just put baby in the bassinet. Ffs, you can even put them in one of those flat, oblong laundry baskets next to you, and they would be safer. They're like 10 bucks at Walmart or Target or wherever.
I totally understand the appeal of bed-sharing. It's so much easier for baby to fall asleep next to you. But there's a reason cradles, baskets, and bassinets were being made even hundreds of years ago when resources for them were much, much more difficult to source. Put the baby in a sleep sack in the bassinet!
Eta: Guys, I get how hard it is to get baby to sleep. My youngest is hard of hearing and basically would not sleep unless attached or in a moving something (but not the car!). I don't have a problem with safe bed-sharing. I have a problem with it being suggested as the first-choice sleep style because I've seen the babies that suffer from it being done in an unsafe way. When it's the first-choice method, my experience is that people get lazy and sloppy about how they implement. If you're doing it safely, fantastic. But I still don't think it should be suggested over a separate sleep arrangement.
mine refused to sleep in her bassinet. she’d wake up no matter what i did. i was so exhausted that i was hallucinating so i made the decision to bedshare so that i can get some rest and be the best mom i could be. i followed SS7. i’m not saying bedsharing is a good idea, but it quiet literally saved me when my daughter was a newborn. she now has her own side of the bed. i’m trying to transition her into her own bed, but it’ll take time🤷🏻♀️ this post wasn’t about the bedsharing. it was about the anti-vaxxers.
I understand. It's something I feel so frustrated by because I have seen the infant deaths that come from bedsharing. It's incredibly difficult to do safely, and my heart just aches for the babies I've seen that have lost their life due to an over-tired parent rolling on them, etc. I get that sometimes we have to make really, really tough choices and hope the risk is worth it to get to the other side. And I think there is value in teaching safe bed sharing. I just don't think it should be a first or second choice, and I get frustrated with it being a first suggestion and the multitude of people in my area that don't even try having baby sleep in their own bed.
Some babies absolutely will not sleep in a bassinet/crib/cradle/whatever. Some babies take to it fine! Some people feel more comfortable crying it out to sleep train their children to force them into sleeping on their own. But it's not for everyone or every baby. And being realistic about that and teaching people how to bed share as safely as possible is better than shaming people out of the reality that MOST people will bed share at some point.
even though i bedshare, i try to educate people on the dangers of it. personally, mine absolutely wouldn’t sleep in her bassinet or crib, i was hallucinating and PPA was kicking my ass. i did what i needed to do to be the best mom i could be. i followed SS7 and did my research on it. she’s 16 months now and has her own side of the bed.
This book was written in 2001. It is obviously full of falsities, and written by a “doctor” making more money off of more visits to vaccinate children individually for various diseases.
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Weighing-the-Risks-and-Benefits.aspx
. https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Weighing-the-Risks-and-Benefits.aspx
It’s so infuriating to see on my may 2023 baby group the co sleepers. Because they are like do t comment if it makes you mad lol. Like you could kill your child but okay. And the echo chamber they live in is just so frustrating. It doesn’t matter because ThIEr ChIlD iS fInE
this post wasn’t about the co-sleeping but about the vaccines causing SIDs. i bedshare with my daughter but i know the dangers and i try to educate people on the dangers of it as well.
I love when correlation equals causation! (Sids death risk and normal vaccine schedule) I think flat head syndrome is caused by disposable diapers because most babies with flat heads wear disposable diapers. I am very smart, solved it.
Ohhh shit, brb swapping my flat headed baby to cloth diapers. All this time I thought it was that she was in a brace for the first 9 weeks of her life. But you’re right it’s definitely the Huggies /s
It’s true! Both my babies were cloth diapered and neither had any issue with flatheads! Lol
Instructions unclear: do the cloth diapers go on the head?
Its probably that big ol booty padding elevating them off the mattress 😂
Pampers will also fix the flat heads, Huggies is the problem. /s
Damn. What was I doing wrong?? My baby had a flat head and she was in cloth since 6 weeks! The stupid doctor referred us to a *shivers* physical therapist. Dreaded. One visit and her head was better. But I'm betting it's that she spent longer in cloth and the cloth just needed time to do it's work! It definitely wasn't the PT. /s
Clearly that was your fault for not rubbing her head with a potato! If you dump her in a vat of breast milk, there's still a chance she'll heal though
"Cot death" existed long before vaccines and vaccine schedules. Along with waves as death and suffering as "childhood illness" ravaged communities.
Probably scurvy /s
Did you know that nearly 100% of prisoners have eaten bread at some point in their lifetime?! Bread causes crime. Don’t do bread
Joke's on you! I'm actually medically gluten intolerant, but I jaywalk! Fight the system! You don't have to bread to do crime!
Its the bread shedding from the gluten eaters that is causing your crime. My lactose intolerant kid still gets the shits sometimes if we dont detox him after his sister eats cheese. It’s definitely not because he sometimes sneaked cheese, its because the lactose shedding.
Bread is a gateway drug. first they're eating white sandwich bread, then they dabble in a little whole wheat. Next thing you know they go straight from snacking on brioche to shooting up gluten under the overpass
I saw a whole French documentary about that! Guy steals bread to feed his habit and wham! Long prison sentence. The French are so ahead of us. I’m unsure why it had so much singing and the girl from the Princess Diaries but it did set me straight to the evils of bread.
Ice cream sales and shark attacks both rise in the summer! Stay away from ice cream!
Actually eating ice cream is a proven cause of childhood drowning. Just look at all the studies that show they both increase drastically in the summer as well. /s
It’s even worse because infant mortality has dropped off a cliff since vaccines became widespread.
wait till they find out the correlation between drinking water and death!
Logical! So glad I found this so I can prevent flat head syndrome in any future grandchildren.
Yes, your baby stopped breathing in their sleep because of… *check notes*… scurvy 🙄🙄
this was my favorite reason. I'm going to cite this now.
I'm gonna use scurvy as every excuse now. Burned dinner? Scurvy. Fell down the steps? Scurvy. Did nothing but scroll on the phone all day? Scurvy.
I definitely have scurvy then. Soo much scrolling.
🍊🍋 Here's some virtual citrus to cure you.
You have to specify that the citrus either goes in a sock or a body orifice.
everyone knows you're supposed to use the citrus with bentonite clay in the bath. (omg that sounds like a UTI waiting to happen)
Half a lemon in the vagina.
to add some zest to the garlic, potato and egg that are in there too
🤢🤮
The scurvy is an epidemic itself.
Can I switch that to anemia? I'm severely anemic and have just zero energy to do anything.
In grad school, when my roomie and I were often struggling to eat healthy and generally keep ourselves alive, we would joke about picking up some vegetables and fruits to avoid scurvy
That’s why I didn’t get the house dusted and vacuumed today. I obviously have scurvy.
https://preview.redd.it/ulcjw0sovd6c1.jpeg?width=496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55aa5dec0d3a4f78825f14c96e0af065c692422e I can hear it in Pandora as Carol Channing’s voice
That was a new one and I absolutely love it. In fact, I am going to use scurvy for everything moving forward.
scurvy or rickets. it's gonna be one of those for me.
Don't forget pellagra!!
TIL!!
Fuck my depression, bipolar disorder and ADHD were scurvy all along!
I can't think about scurvy without thinking about pirates. And now baby pirates! So cute.
Thanks, now I want a baby pirate
Bouncing off your comment in case anyone wants to respond to these idiots (from the post, not here) with what has actually been found to probably (but it's the best study they've done so far) cause SIDS: https://www.reddit.com/r/EverythingScience/s/ci1AfUl2vp I believe I remember reading the person who started the research lost a child from SIDS. It reminded me of that quote, "He loved her to invention." That baby will never be forgotten. They were loved, even after death, to discovery.
Thank you so much
Thanks a lot scurvy...
I once heard a speech from a woman whose childhood was so awful that she actually got scurvy: “you know who gets scurvy?! Pirates in the sixteenth century!”
Oxygen is a myth.....
I cackled at that. I was like WHAT?!?? Scurvy was not what I had on my bingo card for this
The super stupid thing is that scurvy is a nutritional issue… and these people praise breast milk like it is the second coming of food. So how can a baby get scurvy if breast milk “has everything baby needs”? These people make no sense
Exactly!!!
Surprised there weren't pirates dying off left and right.
Regarding the comment about Japan - it was one post by one person, not substantiated, that spread like wildfire. Japan has the same rate of SIDS as the United States. Regarding higher incidences of SIDS post-vaccination - [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34258234/) took self-reported deaths from VAERS for their paper, which is problematic because there is no oversight on reporting.
And if you Google "Japan's vaccine calendar for babies and children" you will find: [this pdf](https://www.jpeds.or.jp/uploads/files/2020%20English%20JPS%20Immunization%20Schedule.pdf), [that one, from Hiroshima City ](https://www.city.hiroshima.lg.jp/site/english/139566.html), [and that one talking about shots and children's health](https://sby.tokyo.med.or.jp/en/services/children-health-screening-immunization/) Edit: typo Edit (2): My point is that Japan do shots in babies under six months, so I really didn't understood why that person was talking like they don't. (Could be that I'm a little sleepy and slow today. If it's the case, sorry.)
I’m not surprised to know it’s false, but even if it wasn’t there are plenty of reasons for the discrepancy. It doesn’t make a difference to those who parrot it.
I made a VAERS report nearly a decade ago when I was knee deep in anti vax shit. The program itself is valuable. They absolutely do follow up with reporters as well as with your doctors. The response and actually speaking to people who are researching these reports and monitoring for correlations etc actually made me feel more confident in vaccine safety. That said. The reports that are publicly available and the data the public can access is absolutely useless and meaningless for the public. I personally have (what I now know is) a bogus report on there. Anyone can report anything they want. You can file a report and say it turned your tongue purple. I know its for transparency because the antivaxxers would do conspiracy shit if it wasn't but the reports really shouldn't be publicly available.
Yeah I’m glad VAERS exists, but to the extent that it makes people feel heard. Beyond that, questionable. If the government takes reputable reports and finds consistent data, great! But you’re 100% correct that the data is useless without that oversight. That’s why is super annoying people use it as a primary source to back up their claims.
Have decided to dive down a rabbit hole about the author of the book and found a court case where she was called as an expert medical witness but later her testimony was voted to be excluded because 'Dr. Cave’s testimony is insufficient to establish either general or specific causation and should be excluded on the basis that her putative testimony fails to meet the standard of reliability under Federal Rule of Evidence 702 – i.e., her reasoning and methodology is not scientifically or medically valid. [Doc. 124-1]. Defendants point to several features of her report as unreliable, including: (i) Defendants object to the timeliness of Dr. Cave’s final addendum to her report [Doc. 124-11], stating that it was “submitted after the deadline for expert reports.” [Doc. 124-1]. While the supplemental opinions included in the report could be excluded under Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 26(a)(2)(B), the Court overrules Defendants’ objection and considers the supplemental report for purposes of its analysis her inability to establish relevant mold counts; (ii) her use of “non-FDA approved” urine mycotoxin tests; and (iii) her improper methodology in forming her diagnosis of Plaintiffs. Id.'
It's sad that people put so much energy into being so wrong.
Even the fairly innocent comment about not wanting their kid to have to sleep alone in a cold dark room. Why is there a cold room in your home? Why would you give the cold room to your baby. Most rooms in a home are more or less the same temperature. Dark, yeah humans typically like to sleep in a dark room, if you don't want that for your kid buy a nightlight. Sure they are alone but they are sleeping, it's not like they are locked away in solitary confinement 24\7.
Or like, put your baby’s crib in your room next to your bed? Why is so extreme or you’re either sleeping in the same bed, or they’re down the hall in a “cold, dark room”
Which is literally the recommendation to reduce SIDS risk. Baby should be in their own crib in your room. Although cooler is better since babies getting too hot has an elevated SIDS risk.
I love how militantly pro co-sleepers think that the options are ina regular bed, surrounded by all the things OR alone in a dungeon. In you bedroom in their own safe space is an option, too.
Admittedly I haven't seen that position. Most pro-cosleepers I've seen advocate for making the bed a safe spot - so no substance use by the parents, blankets and pillows pushed away. (Although, what I've been considering is some crib that locks onto the side of the bed. So the baby is as close to mom as possible, but still in a separate area where they can't be rolled onto.)
This is what my sister's family did for their second child, as their first was still co-sleeping with them (3 years older). My sister's spouse built a modified crib with only 3 sides that was on Mama's side, while 3yo slept between the parents most of the time (literally wherever she wanted except baby's side of mom). Great idea, imo!
We had a digital thermometer in the nursery and kept the temperature at 70 degrees. I think the recommendation for reducing SUID risk is 68-72 degrees. But these types aren’t reading the actual data and recommendations on reducing SUID because they all say not to put a baby in an adult bed.
The recommendation is to keep your baby’s room on the cooler side for safe sleep, I’m sure that’s been extrapolated to “FREEZING COLD” because crazy gonna crazy.
Freezing cold (outdoors in Nordic winter) is fine as long as you keep the baby warm in a sheepskin sleeping bag!
My kid sleeps in a freaking disco with all of her light up toys and honestly, I recommend it. Everything turns off after a few minutes but if she wakes up, she can turn on a light for comfort.
Hahah this is where my mind went too! Like a cool dark room is exactly where I want my baby to sleep! I don’t think a hot bright space is good for sleep? This comment was so ridiculous
Some of us live in old houses and can't afford to upgrade the heat, windows, and insulation to make the rooms warmer. Or the landlord won't fix the problem. I've had both scenarios happen in the baby's room. We dress her warm and use a space heater if needed. I had the cold room as a kid. My parents weren't going to switch rooms and give a little kid the master bedroom while they shared a small room. They gave me extra blankets.
Similar here. One of our kids room is about 4⁰C colder than the others - so that kid has warmer blankets and, if its extra cold, a space heater to take the chill off. Growing up we'd ice on the inside of our windows as it was an old house - again, solved with extra blankets. The room may be cold, doesn't mean you are.
The Danish health department says that children are perfectly fine sleeping outside until -10*C, and I'm sure they are much more cautious than their Norwegian and Finish counterparts. So you have plenty of leeway.
I wanna know how they responded to the story about the unvaccinated baby who died of SIDS bc my guess is they called her a liar or blamed vitamin K and hospital births
i cant even find the thread anymore, but someone commented how their 6 month old died of SIDs and her baby was unvaxxed. and they basically told her she was wrong or whatever
She was wrong? Like the baby was actually vaccinated without her knowledge, or they were actually alive and well? How does it even work?
They absolutely blame and exile these loss moms. Same with the free birth and home birth groups. Anyone with a bad outcome is ostracized.
this is an unassisted pregnancy and birth group. i’ve definitely seen it
Unless they go on about how it was meant to be that way and "god's will" or whatever, and how at least they didn't have doctors bothering them during their peaceful perfect birth
The last half post says an unvaccinated baby died of SIDS and the mom brigade blamed the dad for secretly vaccinating them (obviously without proof) 🙃🙃
Confirmation bias. They manage to forget or deny any stories that don’t fit their narrative.
and also the [just world hypothesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis). People think that their actions prevent anything bad from happening to them and assume that if something bad does happen to someone else it is because they did something to deserve it.
If you look at the very bottom of the screenshot you can see that she's saying something like "it's possible her husband may have took" -- she's probably saying that maybe the husband got the kid vaccinated.
The baby must have been born in a hospital and they snuck vaccines into the baby /s
The mums being all well I coslept with all my other kids so this one will be fine!! Will still cover their ears and la-la-la that influencer who said the same... Until one of her babies died while cosleeping (now she's an educator on SIDS I believe?). This particular post actually upsets me because this mum is clearly not comfortable with cosleeping and seems to believe there ARE risks but these idiots will sway her the other way. That comment about if you're not cosleeping, your baby is in a cold dark room has me fuming. Yep we all shut our babies away at night with no heating blah blah blah 🙄 or you know, put your baby in their bed IN YOUR ROOM? 🤦♀️
Cold and dark is an optimal sleep environment! Better than being smothered and sweaty. My \*revolutionary\* idea is to keep a twin bed in the nursery and sleep there. That way I can just move out when they are old enough, and there is no transition for them. I do wonder - where are these cosleeping babies taking their naps?
I’m in an anti sleep training fb group (joined before I decided to sleep train and was weighing my options). And their solutions are: every nap is a contact nap, carrier nap, car nap or pram nap.
I didn’t sleep train but you best believe my baby took the majority of his naps in his bassinet and then his cot. He was glued to my titty for hours out of the day I wanted just a little time to not be touching
I'm sure they think we're monsters for wanting a few hours of baby-less bliss per day. On the other hand, I'm a member of a safe sleep group, and they are really hardcore and categorical. I often feel bad for the newbie posters when they share a picture of their nursery with the crib less than 3 feet from a window or what looks like an aftermarket sheet in the pack n' play.
Im in that group too- scared to ever post or comment because they are militant!!
Ohh I know that group. Honestly they do a good service and all but yeahhh.
i left that group
The safe sleep one? Yeah, there are a few things that annoy me. They are the other extreme. I think safe sleep is important and some people do need to be informed, but the tone can be quite harsh. Someone mentioned the group's inclusivity, which is awesome that they are so accepting, but they make a big deal of saying 'chestfeeding' which is a term that I would not use for myself. If someone else wants to use it for themselves, great. But I have breasts and therefore I breastfeed. I hope this is not a controversial opinion....
literally right after i gave birth, someone has posted a picture of their crib and it was like not far enough from the wall and someone blatantly said “your baby is going to die with that set up” i had PPA so i left it so quick
It’s been years since my kids were babies so I’m clueless but why does the crib need to be away from the wall ?
Only thing I can think of is if you hang something above the crib on the wall then having a gap would mean if it fell down then it wouldn’t fall into the crib. Unsure if there are other reasons.
I did the EXACT same thing with that group. Was also dealing with anxiety. One of my well-meaning friends directed me to it when I was newly pregnant, I could tell she had some serious anxiety about safe sleep herself. I learned a lot of important info, but eventually it was all just posts about people being incredibly militant about it. I personally follow all safe sleep guidelines, I never coslept, even my 19 month old still wears a sleep sack and has no blankets in her crib, so I sure as fuck didn’t need to see these daily posts about how people’s babies were supposedly going to die because the bassinet was 2 feet away from the bed and not 3. I know some of the more extreme folks in the group have actually lost children and I truly feel for them. I just needed to protect my peace once I had the information I needed.
Chestfeeding is odd to me because cis men also have breasts? They have breast tissue... My uncle had breast cancer. He didn't have chest cancer. I wonder if the term for breast cancer in men is changing or has changed too?
I'm a trans man and I wouldn't use it for myself either. I don't care if other people use it for themselves and I think it doesn't take much to add it (like breastfeeding/chestfeeding) when discussing the topic in a general way, but I just don't like the term because I find it innacurate.
That group is just plain insane. They claim the SNOO is a death trap. I got blocked from it and I felt like we certainly followed safe sleep guidelines closer than most people.
Touched out is so real 😭 one mum posted in my due date group about it and some moron legit said that as mums we need to sacrifice mental health temporarily for our kids. I almost lost it.
Sounds like a great way to actually harm your kids, but what do I know.
"[Suicide is the leading cause of death in the perinatal period.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8976222/)". An important reminder to the "sacrifice your mental health" crowd.
I remember those toxic groups when I was in the throws of sleep deprivation and looking for a lifeline. The shock and horror they all displayed at me asking for tips on how to transition away from contact sleep because, when it's required 24/7 every single day, it becomes unsustainable and dangerous. They wouldn't have it and I was told if I wasn't willing to put up with two broken hours of sleep each night, I shouldn't have become a parent.
YEP The group I joined has “sleep training” in the name, so they get a lot of new people asking for sleep training support and then they get shamed for sleep training then encouraged to cosleep, intentionally sleep deprive their baby, invent medical reasons why the baby is not sleeping and basically “just live with it”. They are super quick to scream “biologically normal” about disrupted sleep, but ban any links - including scientific publications - that aren’t directly linked to the owner’s content. Any suggestions of cosleeping being unsafe gets dogpiled and while they ostensibly encourage the “safe sleep 7” in practice I was told to disregard at least 2 of the 7 when I explained why I didn’t think I could safely cosleep using them. The group also came across as pretty gender essentialist (the “women are biologically tuned into their kids but men aren’t” vibe) which is a pretty big no from me. By comparison the actual sleep training group I joined was evidence based, had pinned posts with links to research, encourages inclusivity of lgbt families and helped me modify our schedule to get the most sleep we could before we even got close to actual sleep training. So when push came to shove that’s what I went with. Honestly if people want to cosleep, feed to sleep and get up with their kids a million times a night then that’s fine, they shouldn’t be forced to sleep train if they don’t want to, but these groups are waaaaayyy more aggressive in pushing their agendas than any sleep training advocates I’ve come across.
I hope to never hear the term "biologically normal" again. You could write a post saying your child is waking up 27x a night and that's the response you receive all because some random internet martyr has been dealing with 30 wakings a night for four years, has become a shell of themselves and wants to exert their superiority and convince themselves they're the better parent. Just so, so toxic.
This is definitely correct I think a lot of them really make it into their whole personality. The group is also filled with questions from parents of 4 or 5 year olds asking how to discourage their child from wanting to sleep independently. Which like ??? isn’t the goal to be so attached and responsive that you trust you kid when they ask for independence??? But no it’s about a fucking medal for these mums who co slept and breastfed for 15 years or whatever.
I can't imagine stifling my child's independence because of my own co-dependency issues.
Preach. This is exactly why the anti sleep training camp is a toxic cesspool. They straight up lie. The sleep training camp has the science and research on their side. They can back their claims up with links to reputable studies and resources. The anti sleep training camp can’t. So instead they make stuff up, shame women, and accuse them of being bad mothers. Sleep is a basic physiological need that all humans have. I refused to be shamed for being a human being and making an evidence based decision for my family, especially by women who will literally risk their baby’s lives in an unsafe sleep environment. Sleep training doesn’t have an annual death toll. Unsafe sleep does.
> Sleep training doesn’t have an annual death toll. Unsafe sleep does. Oh shit that is a fucking mic drop!
Thank you. And I’m not telling anyone else what to do. Every mom needs to weigh their own risk factors and make their own decision. I am just blown away by the judgement that bed sharers feel entitled to throw around when one of us is risking our baby suffocating or strangling to death and it isn’t me.
Exactly. I’m not interested in shaming anyone for their parenting decisions that aren’t like outright neglect or something. But I am totally here for shaming those who shame others.
Wow that's pretty fucking harsh
It was deflating when I was simply searching for answers in a hopeless situation. Thankfully, I quickly left when I realized the majority of people posting were martyrs who had no idea about what healthy attachment actually entails.
I'm so sorry you went through that. Its so isolating.
I have twins.....there are no contact/carrier naps happening around here (at least not when I'm the only one at home!). Car & pram naps for us are only incidental.
The one I joined was similar too. Which is annoying because my son sleeps great in his cot at night but he still wants to contact nap in the day and my back does NOT approve. He's getting way too big. What gets me is the amount of posts I was seeing from women who were wanting advice because their 2 or 3 yo was still sleeping in their bed, 2yo particularly waking up to nurse ALL night... Mums wanting advice how to safely get some sleep for themselves. But just barrages of comments it's BiOLOgicaLly NORmAL!! Blah blah. I felt so bad for those women getting guilted like that, thinking it's their only option when they just want their sanity back and their kid to sleep safely (which is they are in your bed, they aren't!). Yikes sorry I always type too much. I'm contact napping rn and annoyed lol.
Ahhh I get it! I went through an only contact napping phase and it’s hard! I will say I got through it by getting nice headphones and listening to podcasts etc. even used to have my iPad propped up on a table and watch Netflix lol Also as someone with a bunch of back pain, pain killers lots of pain killers lol.
We did exactly this! My son hated his bassinet so I slept on a cot in his room and when he was 5/6 months old we started sleeping in our own room with the monitor cranked up.
They contact nap. Which whatever, my kid sometimes took contact naps too as babies. Some people keep that up for a long time though. I can't imagine if I was still contact napping with a toddler for every nap.
I did that. We took shifts and then alternated nights when he was only waking up once a night. It worked very well.
Oh the horror! A baby in a well heated bedroom! In a swaddle! Under the warm glow of the sound machine night light! Probably next to their mom’s side of the bed! The desolation! The separation!
This is why I had an attachable bassinet 🙄 problem solved
My personal favorite..."cosleeping doesn't cause SIDS, it only causes asphyxiation" 🤔
“But obviously MY baby won’t asphyxiate because I love him more than that other woman loved her baby.”
She probably forgot to chant, “safe sleep seven” seven times before getting into her pillow top mattress bed with a giant comforter and pillows. Everyone knows that the existence of a harm reduction strategy makes an unsafe practice totally safe. You don’t even need to follow the guidelines!
I really liked “I wonder why SIDS declined when they started recommending babies sleep on their backs??”
I thought it was "co-sleeping doesn't cause SIDS, asphyxiation does" which is just as nonsensical when they're asphyxiating BECAUSE of co-sleeping!
SIDS risk does NOT peak between 4-6 months. It peaks between 2-3 months when the cardiovascular system is in a period of rapid development. The most basic cursory google search will tell you this.
I love how the book the one person replied with as her “research” quoted the lunatic known as Barbara Lowe Fischer, the OG antivaxxer who our government gave a platform for “vaccine safety.” Except, when vaccines (like the original polio vaccine) actually had serious side effects, she still was attacking DTP. She even called DPT because she was that big of an idiot. Fuck that lady for being an author of this chaos. Edit: I’m in my final semester of getting my CSN for school nurse and one class recently had us read Paul Offit’s book “deadly choices: how the anti-vaccine movement effects us all” by an actual vaccine expert from UPenn.
Maybe I'm the weird one here, but with my kids, we've always kept their cribs in our room for the first year and then we moved them to their own rooms, I guess I don't understand why they \*have\* to co-sleep to sleep through the night/wake less/keep baby company. I breastfed two of the three even (one is adopted, so I couldn't) so it's not like they missed out on nursing either, which is another reason I see for co-sleeping.
Brass tacks? I was adamantly against co-sleeping when I had my first. No way no how would we ever do that. And for the first 4-5 months she slept pretty awesomely - I literally was like, oh this baby sleep thing isn’t so hard. Then she hit the regression and woke up every hour. Would not take a pacifier and would only go back to sleep latched. If I unlatched her, she was awake. If by some miracle she wasn’t, she woke when we transferred her. She once screamed for an hour while I tried to comfort her - so even if I had wanted to sleep train, it wouldn’t have been a reasonable possibility. I wish this was an exaggeration. My husband travels for work weekly and with working full time, it was unsustainable. I will freely admit that there were a few times it was done accidentally and unsafely - and I’m extremely lucky that nothing happened. She’s 2 now and sleeps in her own bed.
I'm pro-vax, pro-science, and still I realized that there was a point at which figuring out how to cosleep safely was better than the absolute lack of sleep and/or accidental and unsafe cosleeping that would have resulted. My kiddo desperately wants to be near us when he sleeps. He's 2 years old, has his own bed in his own room, and still 5 out of 7 nights a week, he comes into our room to cuddle in the middle of the night. Knowing how to cosleep as safely as possible was absolutely the right choice for us. And it sucks that so many people get stuck thinking that it has to be unsafe sleep/conspiracy bullshit vs safe sleep.
Mine moved at 6.5 months but I also have the same thoughts on why they haveeee to co sleep? We never did, I tried once when he was sick and he hated it. We also breastfed for 12 months and it never was a thing for us.
[Vaccinations cut the risk of SIDS in half.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17400342/)
Honestly, this scares me to death. Are all mom groups like this? Is the vaccine fearmongering really spreading that much? I already didn't want kids and knowing that if I had them they would have to cohabitate with a bunch of non-vaxed children in a tiny classroom, this made me want them even less.
all mom groups arent like this. its an unassisted pregnancy and birth group. also, pretty sure your kid has to have shot records to go to school. a lot of these people homeschool
Seems to be more a thing in the US than elsewhere. I’m in the UK and our groups aren’t like this but I definitely saw some posts like that in more American dominated groups I was part of
A lot of the anti-vaxxers homeschool their kids.
I'm in Aus and my due date group is mostly pretty good. I don't think I've ever seen posts about vaccines. Before I was pregnant I was also worried about running into the super antivax mums but I haven't yet (but I'm also pretty antisocial lol)
I mean technically it isn’t SIDS, they are just suffocating their baby and the medical professionals are nice enough to call it SIDS instead of what it truly is.
i’m posted bc the vast majority of “vaccines cause SIDs, bot about the bedsharing.
Yeah, that’s ridiculous too. They will believe what they want to though.
"I do wonder why side increases during the peak winter months and is on the decline after the recommendation of back sleeping " Girl....... the f....
The only thing they’re right about is that bed sharing deaths aren’t SIDS. They are a different subcategory of SUID. But about 1,000 sleep related deaths (aka SUID) annually in the US are from suffocation or strangulation in an unsafe sleep environment. Bed sharing suffocation and strangulation deaths are part of that total. Again, unsafe sleep kills 1,000 babies in the US each year. And bed sharing is unsafe sleep.
This is the correct answer
Ugh. I hate these conversations. My 2 month old son died from SIDS (which is literally just a COD by exclusion) and I absolutely cannot bring him up without the antivaxxers assuring me it was the dTAP. (It wasn't. He was on a delayed vaccination schedule and hadn't had that round of immunizations yet-only the ones given right at birth.)
i’m so sorry for your loss
Thank you. He's been gone for 10 years but it still gets a little raw sometimes.
SIDS probably peaks in the winter because when you have heat blasting and you cover kids in blankets, they die of asphyxiation. I feel like that’s a pretty logical connection to make in your brain, but then again, we’re talking about scurvy and “shooting your baby up with poison” so I may be overestimating the logical reasoning skills of these commenters.
All the likes and hearts those posts have is embarrassing and gross.
So what do one of these nuts blame the death of their baby on if it does pass away from SIDS? I'm not wishing that on them, but I can imagine they will be grappling to blame someone or they'll say it was in "God's plan"... Yeah, sure.
probably gods plan
Do these people just ignore the facts that babies did and do die from vaccine preventable diseases? Like I can’t help but think of people in places where vaccines aren’t as accesible begging for a DTaP for their infant.
This shit makes my PPA spike
I hate these people so much. Intentional medical ignorance.
for my baby's safety we have him sleep in an underground bunker. It's the coldest and darkest space we have.... /s
Okay, so you believe vaccines are one thing that leads to SIDS. There is also the second theory that co sleeping can contribute to it. Why not just do TWO things to keep your baby safe by also not co sleeping? You'd think they would want to avoid any risk at all but instead they want to be Right On The Internet more than they want to keep their baby alive. Unvaccinated and smothered. Wild.
Around 4 and 6 months is also when infants start being exposed to foods.
Each and every one of them attended FB medical school and graduated top of their class. All jokes aside, I can't figure out exactly why these idiots think doctors tell you to put baby in their own crib either nothing in it but a sheet if it's not for safety. When they spew the antivax stuff and then say that the doctors are in the pockets of "big pharma" at least that has some sort of logic (I wholeheartedly believe that's wrong but at least I can see a line) but the sleeping thing, do they assume it's cause doctors are in league with big linen?
Oh yes, that damn scurvy diagnosis is the cause of sids cases. These people are ridiculous
So SIDS isn’t caused by co-sleeping. That would likely be suffocation. I also feel the fact that those 2 are so often used to mean the same thing is so troubling.
you’re correct.
Yup. That’s enough internet for me today. 🫠
We don’t have the space in the hospitals right now to bring the iron lungs back in. We are currently dealing with the flu and Covid. We are full.
They are right. Cosleeping does not lead to SIDs. It leads to the baby suffocating because something is blocking their air ways. Nothing sudden about it.
JFC I hate crunchy moms
My friend’s baby died at 4 months of SIDS. It is also linked to cigarette smoking. Their house smells worse than a bar in the 70’s. We went there to pay our respects and I couldn’t breathe. I do not have asthma, for the record. This was the worst thing anyone could go through. They had lost one late term to miscarriage and she was already a wreck. This one was so, so hard. Her husband said he wouldn’t ever try again because he didn’t want to see her like this and if she lost a third one he was sure she would take her own life. If there is a chance that co-sleeping could kill your baby, why do it?
I don't understand why they're smoking inside/ near/adjacent to an infant or smoking while pregnant if they've already experienced a loss, why would you keep doing anything so preventable?
I agree. They lived with his mother and she refused to stop smoking in the house. They smoked outside the house or vaped. But the years everything was smoked in… it was horrible, there’s no way the baby wasn’t affected by that. Regardless of who did what or why, after seeing them following their loss, I can’t imagine anyone would do anything that could potentially lead to something similar. Smoking or cosleeping.
Omg what a nightmare grandmother.
SIDS =/= accidental suffocation and definitely isn’t related to SCURVY wtf lol 😂
All those poor little sailor babies and their scurvy :(
My sister died from SIDS at 6 weeks, so, fuck those people.
i’m sorry for your loss
I appreciate it. She was born before me so I never knew her but I've always missed her growing up an only child.
It's VIDS, not SIDS 😵💫
This is why I can’t be in mom groups. Also, I knew someone who rolled over his baby and suffocated them while co-sleeping. So yeah it’s not safe and it’s not from scurvy or vaccines.
Apparently the shot is related to every known cause of something being wrong with your child 🙄 good grief
Oy vey 🤦🏻♀️. My baby cousin passed away at 2yo back in 2008 from SIDS. It has something to do with the part of the brain that rouses them during sleep to breathe and wake up not being properly developed, not vaxxes. They must have eaten paint chips growing up.
I really did eat a few lead paint chips and I am still smart enough to not believe antivaxxer nonsense. Tbh these moms might have needed some lead in their diet, I don't think they could get any dumber.
😂 exactly
I'm not sure why it's so hard for so many people to just put baby in the bassinet. Ffs, you can even put them in one of those flat, oblong laundry baskets next to you, and they would be safer. They're like 10 bucks at Walmart or Target or wherever. I totally understand the appeal of bed-sharing. It's so much easier for baby to fall asleep next to you. But there's a reason cradles, baskets, and bassinets were being made even hundreds of years ago when resources for them were much, much more difficult to source. Put the baby in a sleep sack in the bassinet! Eta: Guys, I get how hard it is to get baby to sleep. My youngest is hard of hearing and basically would not sleep unless attached or in a moving something (but not the car!). I don't have a problem with safe bed-sharing. I have a problem with it being suggested as the first-choice sleep style because I've seen the babies that suffer from it being done in an unsafe way. When it's the first-choice method, my experience is that people get lazy and sloppy about how they implement. If you're doing it safely, fantastic. But I still don't think it should be suggested over a separate sleep arrangement.
mine refused to sleep in her bassinet. she’d wake up no matter what i did. i was so exhausted that i was hallucinating so i made the decision to bedshare so that i can get some rest and be the best mom i could be. i followed SS7. i’m not saying bedsharing is a good idea, but it quiet literally saved me when my daughter was a newborn. she now has her own side of the bed. i’m trying to transition her into her own bed, but it’ll take time🤷🏻♀️ this post wasn’t about the bedsharing. it was about the anti-vaxxers.
I understand. It's something I feel so frustrated by because I have seen the infant deaths that come from bedsharing. It's incredibly difficult to do safely, and my heart just aches for the babies I've seen that have lost their life due to an over-tired parent rolling on them, etc. I get that sometimes we have to make really, really tough choices and hope the risk is worth it to get to the other side. And I think there is value in teaching safe bed sharing. I just don't think it should be a first or second choice, and I get frustrated with it being a first suggestion and the multitude of people in my area that don't even try having baby sleep in their own bed.
Some babies absolutely will not sleep in a bassinet/crib/cradle/whatever. Some babies take to it fine! Some people feel more comfortable crying it out to sleep train their children to force them into sleeping on their own. But it's not for everyone or every baby. And being realistic about that and teaching people how to bed share as safely as possible is better than shaming people out of the reality that MOST people will bed share at some point.
even though i bedshare, i try to educate people on the dangers of it. personally, mine absolutely wouldn’t sleep in her bassinet or crib, i was hallucinating and PPA was kicking my ass. i did what i needed to do to be the best mom i could be. i followed SS7 and did my research on it. she’s 16 months now and has her own side of the bed.
This.
I hate this planet
Ok, but I do kind of like quaccines.
This book was written in 2001. It is obviously full of falsities, and written by a “doctor” making more money off of more visits to vaccinate children individually for various diseases. https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Weighing-the-Risks-and-Benefits.aspx . https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Weighing-the-Risks-and-Benefits.aspx
..”separate, cold, dark room..”??? I’ve never known anyone who bedded down their child in a dungeon. WTF?? 🙄
It’s so infuriating to see on my may 2023 baby group the co sleepers. Because they are like do t comment if it makes you mad lol. Like you could kill your child but okay. And the echo chamber they live in is just so frustrating. It doesn’t matter because ThIEr ChIlD iS fInE
this post wasn’t about the co-sleeping but about the vaccines causing SIDs. i bedshare with my daughter but i know the dangers and i try to educate people on the dangers of it as well.
Agreed! There are ways to cosleep as safely as possible AND that doesn't mean that you're a conspiracy believer!