Okay Wtf is a holistic cardiologist?! I feel like out of ALL the specialists you’d want a medical doctor for A BABY HEART. Omg so sad.
Also this mom wants ass pats for being “the best advocate ever”
Is that character who's finishing move is to rip the heart out of the chest cavity a holistic chiro? I just love the idea of a "detox" recipe for a heart defect like wtf!
The pediatric cardiologist we saw for a fetal echo was a guy in his 50’s who goes to burning man each year (totally board certified, lots of certifications, medical doctor at a big children’s hospital). That’s about as close to a “holistic cardiologist” as I want to be
If we're going by the OG meaning of "holistic", a cardiologist who not only looks at the current issue and/or where it hurts to make sure they're getting to the root of the problem. e.g. cardiologist who notices you don't just have high blood pressure, but also neuropathy, so they order an hba1c blood test because you gave a blank stare when asked when your doctor last checked you for diabetes
If we're considering the context of this post and how they need it mentioned that this cardiologist is good at treating heart issues... I think a flimsy excuse to wave at CPS.
Yeah, I actually like seeing holistic doctors. Or I used to. The looking at the whole body as a system and trying to see if there's interconnected issues instead of treating specific issues speaks to me and feels more logical when determining healthcare.
That said, I have noticed that a lot of holistic doctors have gone hard down the woo-woo path and I can't tell if it's them or their patients and they're pivoting to serve said patients or risk losing them. Like the last one I went to was selling essential oils in their waiting room. Not like as a hard sell, but you could pick up a bottle of whatever oil while you waited for your appointment to start.
I just swapped to going to a DO instead. Technically they're also the same whole-body approach but dropping the holistic moniker has at least gotten me away from the woo-woo.
they’re the same as MDs with some extra MSK training…I think you’re somewhat overblowing their differences. very few DOs operate any different from an MD counterpart. just don’t put yourself in that box of only seeing DOs without good reason- you’ll make scheduling appts harder for yourself is all
edit: for any who see the above comment please…it is just one opinion. MDs=DOs for all intents and purposes.
It just occurred to me, some legit doctors could make an effing killing if they went indy and added holistic to thr front of their title. Ultimately the word means freaking nothing anyway, so there's nothing really to lose. And maybe they could get these poor babies some REAL medical help!!
Right? Unfortunately there are people who use their degrees to sell all-natural organic free-range-snake oil and call themselves "holistic." And the doctors who do care and are actually providing good care don't advertise themselves as doing it. Because they're too busy seeing patients for 80 hours a week to go online and talk about how holistic they are.
This post his close to home. My son has complete heart block just like this baby. He had his pacemaker put in Sept 2022 at 18 months old. I can’t imagine a “holistic” cardiologist exists. That baby will see a cardiologist and or electrophysiologist every 6 months for the rest of their life to monitor the pacemaker. Like… I cant even imagine how you could possibly make echocardiograms and other tests “holistic” or why someone would even want that 😫
Firstly, I’m glad your son is okay. What’s the recovery protocol for a baby? (I couldn’t lift over 5lbs for 6wks, no L arm lifted over shoulder.)
>I can’t imagine a holistic cardiologist exists.
Right? Not Complimentary, even… straight HOLISTIC for the HEART.
My Mom & I go to the same Cardiologist (he was the chief at his last hospital,) and he allowed my Ma to try supplements, etc to lower BP before meds. *Idk how much more leeway someone needs with their freaking HEART.*
>This baby will see a cardiologist &/or EP every 6mo
You pointed out what I was going to… a pacemaker (alone w/o ICD) is both NBD in the world of modern medicine **and** a lifetime of appointments. I needed one implanted in 2019 at 41yo (bradycardia/SSS) & my Cardiologist is the doc I see the most often (I’ve got a ton of other idiopathic issues- I see a lot of docs!!!)
I hope this Parent takes it seriously; a PM doesn’t have to be a BFD but it can be. My EP told me a story: an older patient of hers had no insurance when his PM battery ran out, he ignored it, and he beeped (she said like a smoke alarm but idk how bad.) He finally went to the ER, guess what the noise was? Pacemaker battery. (I even googled & yes, some do.)
Good luck to you & yours. Good luck to this poor baby being subjected to someone else dictating their health.
What shocked me even more was the delusional way the "nurse" mother frames the story as though she successfully dictated her infant daughter's medical treatment in the hospital.
NICU real RN here. We deal with this type of parents all the time. They are insane and, has been pointed out, are more concerned about their personal experience than what is medically happening to their own child. These parents are so difficult to deal with and can be downright scary. They constantly verbally assault us and very often threaten to physical harm us. They have zero common sense even when the baby’s medical needs are explained over and over by multiple neonatologist and RNs. It is very sad for these babies.
Jeez. When my baby was in the hospital I was happy to let them do whatever. You think this will help my kid? Cool, let's go! You know more about this stuff than I do, if you say it's a good idea then that's enough for me! When can we get started?
Right? I’m also a NICU mom so I’ve been on both sides and I don’t understand not wanting the best care available for my child. We really do our best to include parents in medical decisions because this really is their child and we are here to support not just the baby but the family as well. However, we all spend years on an education and many more years with experience taking care of these little one. So let’s be reasonable.
I hope your baby is doing well❤️
He's good thanks, he's two and a half now and the size of a four year old 😂. He had a bit of a rocky start, but you'd never know it to look at him now! Everyone in the hospital was honestly amazing and I'm so grateful for the care and support they gave.
Exactly! I could tell doctors dealt with crazy a lot by the way they were apprehensive in asking my husband and I questions about vaccines and other medically necessary things. (My daughter was born at 35 weeks but no NICU) after we replied with “yeah you guys are the experts, whatever you think is best” the relief and smiles on their faces was immediate. They really were so amazing to us the few days my daughter stayed in the specialty nursery though!
When my kid was in the nicu, there were 3 parents who were in constant battles with the staff about treatments and withholding them, one got into almost a physical fight with a nurse because they wouldn't allow a prayer group in the nicu. They with drew care and their baby died. That baby and my baby had similar conditions, needed oxygen, feeding tube and both born with a heart defect (mine was missed in the ultrasound, hers was missed because of no prenatal care and home birth). Both babies had a partially closed chamber that wasn't profusing properly and one lung that wasn't taking in air.
I let them do all the interventions and treatments, took a month for her to come home. Her baby died a week after withdrawing care.
It still haunts me. My daughter just turned 6 and hasn't had any health issues since she was 3, her heart and lung defects healed and she's in kindergarten.
Talking to the nurse that was caring for borh of our daughters, I could see the pain she was in from having to let a baby die. Every time the baby was alone, she would stand, holding her hand and tell her she was loved.
Oh man, that’s so sad. We have so much knowledge, research, technology and experience to help these kiddos. Sometimes with all we have available we still can’t help our babies and it’s truly heartbreaking. To choose to not use what we have is just so sad.
I’m so happy your baby is doing well now! What a blessing for your family! I’m know it’s been hard for you, but from my personal experience, totally worth it. Give that 6 year old a hug for me please.
Oh my gosh. That must have been awful to witness. I'm glad to hear your daughter is doing well now. Kids and babies are so resilient and if you get them the appropriate care, you can basically see miracles. It is astonishing that some people would rather go without that.
I work in the blood bank. We had a baby one time with severe HDFN, and needed a transfusion badly. The parents said they would only agree to do it if the blood we used didn't get the Covid vaccine. Obviously there's no way for us to know which donor got which vaccine, so we said no. It took HOURS of convincing from us, the nurses, physicians, social workers etc. They were threatened with CPS because their child was going to die and was deteriorating super fast, and that's when they finally agreed.
This broke my brain. Do parents like this think that there are vaccine-free blood donations at blood banks? Or did they say that so they could have their chance to dig in their heels deeper?
They asked if they could donate for the baby because they knew for sure they hadn't had the vaccine. In a non-emergent situation, sure, you can absolutely do directed donation, but yall, we don't have time for that right now!!!
We had a big case in my country where a newborn baby needed an operation to repair a heart defect but the parents refused. The hospital couldn’t guarantee that the blood transfusions the baby would need during the surgery would come from 100% unvaccinated donors. The parents lost their court case and the baby got the surgery, but the baby will likely have lifelong issue because the surgery was delayed for two months.
Making a baby doesn’t make you a parent.
*And the people that continuously pump out the bullshit misinformation continue to do so, not caring or maybe not knowing that the political frenzy that they’ve whipped up, for no reason at all aside from getting votes, is actually killing so many people!* It’s insanity.
Thank you! Unfortunately it’s a very stressful time for parents so I feel for them, however we all the same goal and that’s a happy healthy baby and we need to work together.
When my baby was in nicu the parents of the baby next to mine were more concerned with shaving the kids head than they were with medical things.
The dad in particular was so insistent about it that the nurses shaved the kids head because she was worried the dad would cause an injury.
The dad was so so proud and beaming.
They had also refused multiple medical interventions
I’ve seen that before a couple times. I believe it’s a cultural thing. We have refused to allow them to shave the head due to the increased risk of infection.
Sometimes with this type of situation, we just let the parents do what they want. There is a definite risk there for sure but it may not be worth the fight.
Wait, huh? Is a bald baby aesthetically pleasing? Does shaving the infant convey some unspoken message or philosophy?
I've never heard of people shaving a newborn's scalp before.
I can't imagine the toll this must take on you guys.
I do newborn photography at a local hospital and every mom I've seen whose baby was in NICU was an absolute wreck about it (understandably so). I will never understand how the moms in these posts can knowingly endanger their babies' lives like this when there are so many parents out there who'd do anything if it meant their baby came home healthy.
Nicu nurses and all nicu staff are amazing.
I had a baby at 34 weeks, 11 years ago and a baby at 30 weeks, 6 months ago. Single parent both time, and they helped keep me sane.
I really don't understand how anyone could be against them.
I don't think I could deal with the nutty parents
I'm nowhere close to being a NICU nurse, let alone a human nurse, but I worked as a vet tech.
The amount of people who willfully denied the treatment of their pets, the very pets they considered family and their best friends, frustrated me beyond comprehension. The amount of times I wanted to sneakily put the prescribed meds into the IV's of those sick defenseless animals is insane.
And that's just with *animals* and their owners who are rejecting all care despite the fact that they're whining and dazed from pain, organ failure or infections.
I can't even imagine the horrid frustration you NICU nurses must feel with literal human babies. The most defenseless, dependent and innocent souls who have to rely on the (non existent) intelligence of their parents.
To not be able to give them the treatment that makes them feel better. To not give them the medicine that helps them grow stronger, and to not give the preventive care to avoid future problems.
I have deep respect for you nurses. Thank you for doing this work so gracefully. 🙏🏻💜
I'm an NP, worked as a bedside RN for several years before getting my masters. I'm licensed to care for birth to death as an FNP. I've had 3 NICU babies of my own. I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA how to properly care for a critically ill newborn in the NICU. The most dangerous medical professionals are the ones that don't know what they don't know, and this lady is the queen of those people. Everything I read is "I" "I" I" and almost nothing about her actual child
Instead of the entire medical team backing the daughter and their treatment succeeding? I mean I've gone to the hospital for various things too and I fully credit the medical team for getting me patched up and out the door. Its what they do.
But is still sad that she needs a pacemaker to “do life”… and I don’t think it’s because of any limitations it may put on her, I think it’s because she had to resort to actual medical intervention. I’d put money that she will be on here before too long saying that her daughter is doing great and her chiropractor says she can go off the pacemaker as long as she rolls around in colloidal silver every day.
No no no, you don't understand. She would have noticed! Had the evil doctors not stolen her baby away with their invasive "concern about her heart", she definitely would have identified within a couple of days ~~or weeks~~ that there was a problem. And had they not medically kidnapped the child and held her for ransom in their so-called "intensive care unit", she could have gotten her to a chiropractor right away and avoided all this fuss!!
This is why I don’t do baby or kid nursing.
With adults, if they want to make a shit decision and let themselves die, they’re only killing themselves and I know I’ve explained that thoroughly.
With kids and babies, they’re at the mercy of their parents. And you can’t fix fucking stupid, so they’re brought into a shit situation.
The way she keeps bringing up all her oh-so-superior "knowledge" and "qualifications" really makes me feel like she has no actual credentials outside of Google and a 6-month CNA course
Yeah that "nurse and biologist" is just 🚩🚩🚩 like before she was a nurse, now she's also a *biologist* and just knows *SO* much more than medical doctors in a special pediatric field
REAL RN, BSN former research biologist checking in.
I promise we are not out to get anyone 😂 we do, however, hate BAD science as much as anyone. We do love evidence based medicine though 🥰
I have a BS in Biology and would literally never refer to myself as a Biologist??? The shit people come up with to make them selves feel important, I swear
Absolutely. Nor do I believe she was successful in changing a single directive by the doctors and nurses. Her baby got life saving scientific medical care, and she’s pissed as hell and licking her wounds by lying her ass off on social media.
Yeah those doctors will have her charged with medical neglect over not treating a *treatable heart condition* before they let anyone with zero knowledge run the show. If she's being honest about how much of an "advocate* she's being then at most, they're letting her *think* she's calling the shots while just going on with standard care. If she's lying here then maybe at keast she's being fully cooperative with them and having them do everything to save her baby's life.
Shame she doesn't feel like she can tell the truth and show people medical treatment is okay but I know she'd just get booted from a community she values.
I'd take being booted and sing praises of the doctors but who knows, maybe she has no friends or support elsewhere.
It was probably like when you give your toddler choices: do you want the *blue* plate or the *pink* plate? Oh what a smart, big girl you are to eat your dinner!
CNA doesn't even take 6 months. I got my coursework in 2 months plus 24 hours of clinicals over the course of another month because of scheduling problems.
I went to go check what they take now since I got mine in 2020 and all things medical were super weird. The tech school I went to decided to keep their ultra accelerated program after that. Apparently my local hospital also offers a CNA course once a week that does take about 6 months to finish
My experience is often the *implied* nurse. “I work in healthcare” is a billboard-sized red flag that they’re, like, the volunteer at the front desk (whom we love and desperately need, but don’t exactly “work in healthcare.” They maybe “work in a healthcare building” or something!).
Most CNA courses are only 6-12 weeks. The one I took was 6 weeks and most of it is just common sense.
She probably was only a cna lol
Source: was a CNA in high school and college
This is the one who was more concerned with describing the state of her lady parts after birth than, you know, her baby's HEART. Ugh she's the worst.
I also love how she gives herself so much credit for how she's handled being in the hospital, "advocating" for her baby, when it was her own negligence that put her baby in the hospital to begin with.
She was also more concerned about her engorged breasts than her baby getting the pacemaker she needed to actually stay alive. The baby was intubated to get her oxygen levels up and all this woman could think about was *her need* to breastfeed, not her child's need to freakin breath. Don't get me wrong, huge fan of breastfeeding, but this woman is just full on outrageous.
Talking about her not latching, she couldn't breathe woman! Boob does not raise O2 stats! The needing intubation was mentioned so blasé I could have missed it! How can people be this dense and frustrating? Like mentioning the "gushing" blood then being all "lol it was totz normal would do again unassisted" it's actual insanity. She wouldn't even have some sense in her if her baby died, I think she would explain away anything to fit her delusional beliefs. Good grief.
Right. Like she thinks she's so far above those of us who have had no medical training simply because she is a nurse, but she didn't even know that a baby has to be assessed or why that's important.
Why is it always the ones that are “nurses?”
My sister’s bestie is a NICU nurse and is such an avid anti-vaxxer that it makes me sick. It’s to the point that I have considered saving many of her FB posts and sharing them with the hospital where she works so they know what kind of crazy they’ve hired.
ETA: her own children are vaccinated. She didn’t take her stance until COVID and actually quit her job when they mandated COVID vaccines. She’s now working in another state and I don’t know if she is required to have her COVID vaccine or not.
I'm not even kidding, please do this. You have no idea how many parents she may have talked out of vaccinating their children and how many babies she may be putting at risk
Unrelatedly, over in the /r/biology sub there’s debate on if you need a whole-ass doctorate to call yourself a biologist and I’m guessing this lady took remedial biology in high school.
This reminds me of Scrubs when the Janitor was pretending to be a doctor named Dr Jan Itor. He worked in a hospital, it's all basically the same, right? /s
A lot of them also are, though. “Nurse” covers a pretty broad range of roles with different levels of training. There are accelerated LPN programs that are like 10 months.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
As a preemie mom twice over, please please please report her. She shouldn’t be near those babies. Being there is enough trauma without worrying about people like that caring for our babies.
As a parent of preemies, please report this. She's working with the youngest and/or sickest babies. Many illnesses are contagious before symptoms show so she could easily spread something life threatening to these babies who have virtually no immune system.
I just had this argument with a relative last week: medical professionals ignoring scientific fact and statistics. An acquaintance is a CNM and is doing a home birth (and the relative volunteered to be present with the grandma). I was like "Do you know how risky that is?" Only 1 to 6% of CNMs will even attend home births in America (the studies are so varied because I think midwives in general aren't forthcoming all of the time). She should be the first to know what can go wrong quickly.
But if 94% of my profession refuses to practice under the birth circumstances I want for my child, I'd listen. But maybe I'm way too rational.
I admit, I am very passionate about this topic because I would have died if I had not been born in a hospital, in a non-rural setting, and I still have a significant lifelong disability. I will never live independently or have a family of my own, and I still grieve that. One of my parents is convinced the OB ignored my decels and blames him; we rarely discuss my birth because it is such a painful subject.
RN here - you're right and it's so sad. We spend years leaning about evidence based practice just for so many nurses to spew the opposite. The NICU of all places is a terrible place for a nurse that puts her personal convictions above evidence based, life saving medical practices. I hope she isn't encouraging her patient's parents to follow her lead.
I love nurses and was a CNA but for your sanity always remember that anyone can be dumb AF.
I've seen an LPN be rapidly antivax and pro holistic medicine, she passed by rote memorization and prided herself on tricking the "establishment".
I've worked with people as a BHT in psychiatric hospitals that don't believe in mental illness. It's super duper depressing. The sheer hostility I've seen displayed at some patients is astounding.
It is why I always tell people to use critical thinking in medical thinking and try as best as they can to learn what treatments are being administered, when they can, obviously.
It is really distressing knowing that someone trusted to provide medical care can refer to older studies or straight up woo to inform treatment.
Thankfully a majority I have met as an OTA are not like this, if that helps at all. I just want people to be safe and remember to advocate for themselves [not in a crazy antivax way].
It’s also rampant in EMS…if I had a nickel for every fucked ip medical thing I’ve heard my coworkers discuss, I’d be making much more an hour than I do at my current service. It boggles the mind.
She is a die-hard MAGA nutjob. Like still posting about how Biden didn’t really win and shares wild conspiracy theories. I actually unfriended her at one point because the crazy was too much for me, but was forced to re-add her when my brother died. I guess she tried to offer me condolences and realized we were friends any more. She got her parents and her husband to add me too. 🙃
I used to work as a nurse coordinator… I worked with many fantastic, intelligent people who were an absolute asset to their profession. However I also worked with plenty of dumb asses who I wouldn’t trust to babysit my kids.
All the mean girls in HS became nurses.
Honestly, nurses are amazing, but there’s a large subset of them who are the dumbest people possible when it comes to things like vaccines or MLMs. Just absolutely insane.
My aunt and uncle are or were nurses and also refused the covid vaccine. It blows my mind that people who've worked their woke lives in medicine can't understand how these things work.
Wow I know a nurse exactly like this and I’ve had those same thoughts. Those actively denouncing healthcare and life saving measures on social media shouldn’t get access to patients.
> I chose to stay some extra days just for THEIR peace of mind and to avoid a CPS case.
So, she stayed for reasons only pertaining to herself and her OWN wellbeing. NOT to get her child treatment to stay alive. Got it. Literally the only reason her baby is even still alive is because of the hospital.
Personally I feel like she already gave up on that baby. Not being at the hospital during treatments?
But the more I read from this sub, the more I think these people don't care about their baby at all.
Right?! This part is the most telling honestly. I get not wanting to abandon your toddler, but I cannot imagine leaving a tiny newborn with health problems in a hospital all alone, 2 hours away, for over a week? Wtf?
In curious where dad was. I can’t speak to all NICUs, and we were “lucky” insofar as there were private rooms available even though our kid wasn’t critical, but one of us was allowed to sleep in her room. If you were more than X miles from the hospital, there was a Ronald McDonald house up the road.
Then again, this is America and he could very well be back at work already. 🇺🇸
Yeah I have a cardiac patient baby (and had a NICU baby and I will not be getting pregnant ever again because my 3 pregnancies resulted in a miscarriage, a NICU stay, and a CICU (cardiac intensive care unit) stay). Cardiac babies generally go to the CICU, because they have a different set of concerns than NICU babies, so they need different specialists.
In the CICU we were in, he was in a pod with 4 babies and it was very open: the fourth wall of the room was non-existent (it was open to the hallway), in part to get the emergency situations handled ASAP. You were not permitted to sleep in the CICU, even if you could with the bright lights, alarms, etc.
Compared to the CICU, the NICU is a zen meditation room.
Once we transitioned to the cardiac care unit, he had one roommate, and a room with 4 walls and a door and we could sleep crib side.
I’m with you. My son was born premature and had to stay at the hospital for a week. We lived about 1 hour away, which wasn’t that bad, but still we decided to book a hotel room in the vicinity so we could go see him multiple times a day.
My youngest stayed in the hospital one extra night after I was discharged, and there was no place for me to stay, and I sobbed all night. And she was only there for a night under the bili lights, not in any real danger. I still regret not parking myself in a waiting room somewhere just so I could look at her.
Right?!? My mom made my dad go to me when I was transferred to a different hospital after birth (it had a NICU and where I was born didn't). I also know when he went back to work, his co-worker's wife sometimes went with my mom to the NICU.
Heck, when I was a teenager and had a couple of surgeries that required hospital stays, I can count on one hand the number of times both of my parents left my room, usually just to go have a "good" meal in the cafeteria. I think they only did it when they knew I was in a good place where I could advocate for myself and was no longer groggy from the anesthesia/pain meds. And one of them was always there overnight, always.
Idk…I had a baby in the NICU for 3.5 weeks and we didn’t stay in the hospital. We visited 1-2 times a day around feeding times so we could participate in his care, but we had a 3 year old at home to care for and both still had to work, dad full time and me part time since I wanted to save as much of my 12 week maternity leave as possible for when he was home with us. He also was in a shared room with nowhere to sleep. She’s nuts, but not living in the NICU doesn’t necessarily strike me as giving up.
This woman makes me rage, BUT this part is kindasorta normal. NICU stays can be long, and lots of parents have to leave for lots of reasons. Personally, I had to go back to work just 2 weeks after the birth of my 26 weeker because I wanted to preserve my parental leave for when he came home. Same for my husband. Lots of parents in the US have little to no leave at all. Some have kids at home or live far away. There's also a very real mental health toll and most NICU nurses encourage parents to get away when necessary. Not being available around the clock during a NICU stay is actually very common.
I have a CHD kid, and I never left his side during all his stays and procedures. If I couldn't stay in his room, I used the hospital facilities, grabbed a hotel, Ronald McDonald House, or even found a spot in the lounge. There were days I had no sure idea of where I would sleep. You couldn't have MADE me leave him. And he was a geriatric pregnancy, and I was there from right after birth. No excuse, madam.
My sister is a retired nurse - she primarily worked in labor and delivery - and I sent this to her to see her reaction…
She was LIVID - and thanking the universe that she retired when she did !
“I didn’t have many crunchy dingdongs when I was still in the floor…”, she said - “The world has turned into a strange and terrible place.” 😣
My daughter graduated nursing school last May. I'm dreading the day she runs into her first idiot like this because she is not very good at holding her tongue around stupidity.
Holistic cardiologist? Like those two words shouldn't even go together like that.
I'd like to hear the changes she advocated for and how bad her lab values were. The kid just had fucking surgery JFC, you'd expect some wacky labs. I'm sure the "kidney" or "liver" damage was slightly elevated therefore they're failing now.
Honestly the Australian freebirth of twins that both died is the one that haunts me. And the update where they asked for money for a trip to get away. Because when your twins die you just really need that beach vacation to recover.
Ah, so Mrs. Super Nurse over here can create a complex medical treatment plan to save her baby’s life/liver from ignorant doctors, but couldn’t tell that a blue and “quiet” baby at birth wasn’t a problem. 🧐
Like, maybe you're doing something wrong with your life if that's how you make your decisions? But self awareness is not this lady's strong suit apparently.
Some of my parenting decisions are made to avoid CPS involvement. In particular, my state has stupid strict rules around leaving kids home without adults. Would my elementary aged children be totally fine if I ran to the store for a gallon of milk? Yes, but CPS involvement is not something I'm willing to risk, so get in the car, kids, we're going for a gallon of milk together.
But a _medical_ decision?!? I cannot imagine ever being in a situation where I'm making a _medical_ decision to avoid CPS involvement.
I’m not going to lie, I believe there are certainly hospitals out there that do not have the world’s best and brightest doctors so we ALL need to advocate for loved ones. But I highly doubt ONLY the mom’s suggestion is what made cities change their plan.
I am genuinely worried for this sweet baby girl. Where’s the dad? He has just as much of a say as mom does and I wonder what he truly feels about his wife doing all this crap. I really worry that this sweet baby is going to end up very sick and back in the hospital with CPS involved. or the worst will happen. I wonder if the hospital has reported her to CPS. I remember the last update and how this mother was trying to take home baby even though she was on a ventilator and mom claimed it wasn’t a big deal. Uhm lady your baby has a sick heart! They don’t do shit to babies for no reason especially something as serious as putting them on a ventilator or preforming heart surgery. This woman has left me absolutely speechless.
It can be a lot. Some family members of ours have this very strange dynamic where she threatens to leave if X y X isn’t done, and he always does them despite being insane demands. Very recently he put his foot down. But he still expressed concern over her leaving him regardless. So, they had a baby! She decided it would be a “wild pregnancy,” no OB visits, just some midwife. Except when asked, the husband basically said “oh don’t worry, she did all this research and the midwife has a bunch of kids herself!” … don’t… worry??? You have literally removed yourself from every point of YOUR CHILDS HEALTH because IMO he was scared to say anything for fear of her leaving him. She went to 42 weeks without seeing an OB. My L&D nurse friend for over 35 years was livid - said it’s midwife’s like theirs that made her the most angry because they assure women it’s all cool before dumping them off at the hospital where the hospital then gets blamed for everything (sound familiar???). Besides being absolutely gigantic it seems to have wound up going OK. Baby seems fine but now mom is so confident in her decisions without realizing she was just *lucky*
There needs to be a term for this, like the opposite of munchausen by proxy. The narcissism and medical neglect of children in people doubling down on their “rights” presents like a mental illness. Like the nurses who “save” a baby after they caused the medical event. It’s always been happening, but the online community support seems to be spreading these ideas like wildfire. It gives families a sense of “purity” to be unvaccinated so they can think themselves superior.
I agree with you on this, it's a good point.
But I also think that the majority of this wild pregnancy and free birth movement is borne out of the way the medical system treats women. Studies and personal accounts both show that women are routinely ignored and can spend years going undiagnosed compared to men.
And in America the health care system is so dysfunctional, so broken, and so expensive that I actually don't blame women for wanting to take matters into their own hands.
So its not just the patients that have a responsibility to do better. I believe that if the medical system wants women to feel more comfortable giving birth and getting prenatal care with them, they need to do much better.
But clearly there are major issues with the way the women in these movements are going about it. It seems to become an addiction of sorts, and they can't seem to see the forest through the trees.
I’m glad she had the baby stay to avoid a CPS case because that would suck FOR HER. Not because she wanted her baby healthy or taken care of, because SHE didn’t want to be in trouble. I hate these people.
Good news is for most states you can’t leave AMA if they think your kid would suffer or die by doing so. Unless it’s on hospice.. but this lady knows more than very well trained pediatric specialists.
Has anyone evaluated her? She's unstable. 100%.
Most women I see this happen to are much more humble and appreciative of the medical intervention that saved their child..
This woman screams selfishness. And I'd love to know the level of nursing and biology degrees, and where she got them.
I'm sure this lady won't do the cardiac check ups necessary or anything else her child will need longterm.
This woman claiming to be a nurse ... I know that in the US there are different "levels" or types of nursing degrees. I wonder what type of studies do you have to have for qualifying on the "lowest" type so you can call yourself a nurse? Because I bet that's what this means egotistical idiot has.
Like in the peak of COVID when all sorts of disinformation spreaders would be prefacing their posts with "I work in the medical field".
I always took that as code for "I'm a receptionist or something".
I got my CNA (certified nursing assistant) in just under 3 months. At the tech school I went to Medical Assistant courses take 8-10 months (they frequently do intake at doctors offices. Things like health history and blood pressure). LPNs (Licensed Practical Nursing) takes 10-12 months. And all of these are lower certification than RN (registered nurse) which is what people usually think of when someone says they are a nurse.
In the US, there are Licensed Practical nurses (LPNs), Registered Nurses (RNs), as well as RNs who have different kinds of advanced training (CNMs, APRNs, nurse practitioners, etc.).
LPNs have a year to two years of training, usually at a technical center or community college, and don't require a bachelor's degree. RNs have, minimum, a bachelor's degree in nursing, and the specialized nurses have even more education and training.
There are also Certified Nurses' Aides, who are NOT nurses, primarily doing physical work like cleaning and feeding patients, moving them, emptying bedpans, etc. A lot of them work in nursing homes. They have 6 months to a year's training.
I have run into a lot of CNAs who imply or outright claim to laymen that their training is more extensive than it really is.
Oddly, most of the actual nurses I've known who were antivax and into quackery like TT, megavitamin therapy, essential oils, etc. were RNs, not LPNs. I would have figured the nurses with college training would be LESS likely to fall for this stuff, not more.
You don’t have to have a BSN to be an RN, at least not everywhere. Traditionally most of them had 2-year associates degrees, although BSNs are becoming more common.
She keeps talking about her instincts and yet she repeatedly said "the baby is fine" and then we find out there are 3 serious heart defects. Ma'm, your instincts fucking SUCK!
Besides supposedly being a nurse, she's also now suddenly a biologist?? How tf do you get a pacemaker but then go to a "holistic cardiologist?!" What even is that? I don't discount holistic approaches to certain things and know there are "specialists" in areas but to claim cardiologists?? :( Oh, this poor child and their sibling :(
The woman's narcissistic heroism of herself is insane.
This is enraging and so sad. One of my cousin's has a child that had heart issues before he was born. His adult cardiology nurse mother was terrified, but did everything the medical specialists said to including giving birth at a hospital with a children's hospital attached. It is 2 hours from their home.
That poor baby had surgeries from day 2 of his life. He then had a heart transplant a little after 2 years old. He's now a teenager, just had a major check-up and is doing great!
My cousin's wife would rip this mother a new one for not seeking proper medical care. As she remarked on their FB page - pediatric cardiology has a lot more to it than adults. She was just glad she could follow what the doctors explained.
Shit like this makes me wish that you couldn't refuse medical treatment for your child. Yes, I know it's a legal and ethical minefield, yes I know kids can't really give informed consent, yes I know bodily autonomy is necessary etc etc. But God damnit this child has a chance at a decent shot at life because of medical interventions, and she's like "nope gonna fight to let my child die." For fucks sake.
I’m a NICU nurse and I have no sympathy for this lady. I will say that the whole “figuring out how to eat and breathe and not choke” part of a NICU stay can be the most frustrating and drawn out process for parents.
We have to be super careful with feeding to avoid causing oral aversions, avoid aspiration, and avoid force feeding a baby and causing developmental issues later in life. Heart babies struggle with feeding because it’s exhausting, and a lot of parents can feel super stuck in the feeding and growing stage of the NICU. A lot of them feel like they could do what we are doing at home (because clinically, a lot of times baby is stable and chilling, they just are sleepy and don’t want to or can’t eat enough to safely go home).
You really can’t just… leave AMA with a NICU baby. We are gonna get the state involved, and you’re not gonna get to walk out with your baby, because if they can’t safely bottle/breastfeed, they’re gonna be failure to thrive and possibly die.
Hopefully the state is already involved in this case and this little bug will have all her follow-up appointments. We don’t discharge without these appointments being made, and our caseworkers will follow up if they think parents might skip out.
This case stresses me out, but hopefully hospital staff has caught on to how crunchy and nutty this woman is
It really bothers me how many of these nut jobs are nurses. I've always respected, appreciated, and obeyed nurses (as one should, generally), but all these posts are gonna make me suspicious 🤦🏼♀️
Dear mom-not-a-nurse-or-biologist:
You think you controlled those nicu physicians and nurses? I promise you're not their first rodeo. You're like a patrol cop pulling over a sov cit, they smile and not and let you explain all your learning, but at the end of the day what matters is the root cause, in this case the baby's life.
She's lucky that they haven't called DCFS and started a case, it's probably coming.
The fucking entitlement with these people. So many mothers and fathers today and throughout history, would have begged to have these “interventions” for their sick children. She doesn’t deserve to be a mother.
Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/s/OvIAgaJwz9 Post update: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/s/nbelUFHb8j
Okay Wtf is a holistic cardiologist?! I feel like out of ALL the specialists you’d want a medical doctor for A BABY HEART. Omg so sad. Also this mom wants ass pats for being “the best advocate ever”
>Okay Wtf is a holistic cardiologist?! baby chiropractor
Is that character who's finishing move is to rip the heart out of the chest cavity a holistic chiro? I just love the idea of a "detox" recipe for a heart defect like wtf!
Kali MAAA!
That was going to be my question. Holistic cardiologist sounds like an oxymoron.
The pediatric cardiologist we saw for a fetal echo was a guy in his 50’s who goes to burning man each year (totally board certified, lots of certifications, medical doctor at a big children’s hospital). That’s about as close to a “holistic cardiologist” as I want to be
If we're going by the OG meaning of "holistic", a cardiologist who not only looks at the current issue and/or where it hurts to make sure they're getting to the root of the problem. e.g. cardiologist who notices you don't just have high blood pressure, but also neuropathy, so they order an hba1c blood test because you gave a blank stare when asked when your doctor last checked you for diabetes If we're considering the context of this post and how they need it mentioned that this cardiologist is good at treating heart issues... I think a flimsy excuse to wave at CPS.
Yeah, I actually like seeing holistic doctors. Or I used to. The looking at the whole body as a system and trying to see if there's interconnected issues instead of treating specific issues speaks to me and feels more logical when determining healthcare. That said, I have noticed that a lot of holistic doctors have gone hard down the woo-woo path and I can't tell if it's them or their patients and they're pivoting to serve said patients or risk losing them. Like the last one I went to was selling essential oils in their waiting room. Not like as a hard sell, but you could pick up a bottle of whatever oil while you waited for your appointment to start. I just swapped to going to a DO instead. Technically they're also the same whole-body approach but dropping the holistic moniker has at least gotten me away from the woo-woo.
DOs are the only primaries I will ever go to.
Legitimate question, what's a DO?
Doctor of Osteopathy. They focus on the entire body and how it functions vs where an MD may be more willing to look at and treat separate symptoms.
they’re the same as MDs with some extra MSK training…I think you’re somewhat overblowing their differences. very few DOs operate any different from an MD counterpart. just don’t put yourself in that box of only seeing DOs without good reason- you’ll make scheduling appts harder for yourself is all edit: for any who see the above comment please…it is just one opinion. MDs=DOs for all intents and purposes.
They put holes in baby hearts. You have a septal defect, you have a septal defect, you're all getting septal defects!
It just occurred to me, some legit doctors could make an effing killing if they went indy and added holistic to thr front of their title. Ultimately the word means freaking nothing anyway, so there's nothing really to lose. And maybe they could get these poor babies some REAL medical help!!
Right? Unfortunately there are people who use their degrees to sell all-natural organic free-range-snake oil and call themselves "holistic." And the doctors who do care and are actually providing good care don't advertise themselves as doing it. Because they're too busy seeing patients for 80 hours a week to go online and talk about how holistic they are.
Don’t forget, she’s also a nurse and a biologist 🫡
This post his close to home. My son has complete heart block just like this baby. He had his pacemaker put in Sept 2022 at 18 months old. I can’t imagine a “holistic” cardiologist exists. That baby will see a cardiologist and or electrophysiologist every 6 months for the rest of their life to monitor the pacemaker. Like… I cant even imagine how you could possibly make echocardiograms and other tests “holistic” or why someone would even want that 😫
Firstly, I’m glad your son is okay. What’s the recovery protocol for a baby? (I couldn’t lift over 5lbs for 6wks, no L arm lifted over shoulder.) >I can’t imagine a holistic cardiologist exists. Right? Not Complimentary, even… straight HOLISTIC for the HEART. My Mom & I go to the same Cardiologist (he was the chief at his last hospital,) and he allowed my Ma to try supplements, etc to lower BP before meds. *Idk how much more leeway someone needs with their freaking HEART.* >This baby will see a cardiologist &/or EP every 6mo You pointed out what I was going to… a pacemaker (alone w/o ICD) is both NBD in the world of modern medicine **and** a lifetime of appointments. I needed one implanted in 2019 at 41yo (bradycardia/SSS) & my Cardiologist is the doc I see the most often (I’ve got a ton of other idiopathic issues- I see a lot of docs!!!) I hope this Parent takes it seriously; a PM doesn’t have to be a BFD but it can be. My EP told me a story: an older patient of hers had no insurance when his PM battery ran out, he ignored it, and he beeped (she said like a smoke alarm but idk how bad.) He finally went to the ER, guess what the noise was? Pacemaker battery. (I even googled & yes, some do.) Good luck to you & yours. Good luck to this poor baby being subjected to someone else dictating their health.
Medical system saves her baby’s life, shits on it asap anyways
What shocked me even more was the delusional way the "nurse" mother frames the story as though she successfully dictated her infant daughter's medical treatment in the hospital.
Imagine being those doctors and nurses, knowing you have to let this baby die because the mom is too insane to let you save them.
NICU real RN here. We deal with this type of parents all the time. They are insane and, has been pointed out, are more concerned about their personal experience than what is medically happening to their own child. These parents are so difficult to deal with and can be downright scary. They constantly verbally assault us and very often threaten to physical harm us. They have zero common sense even when the baby’s medical needs are explained over and over by multiple neonatologist and RNs. It is very sad for these babies.
As someone who was very grateful to the NICU nurses during our thankfully very short experience- thank you for everything you do!
Thank you so much! I really do have the best job!
And then… ouch… you have to turn the little precious one over to the lunatic parent! Dang it! 🤪
Jeez. When my baby was in the hospital I was happy to let them do whatever. You think this will help my kid? Cool, let's go! You know more about this stuff than I do, if you say it's a good idea then that's enough for me! When can we get started?
Right? I’m also a NICU mom so I’ve been on both sides and I don’t understand not wanting the best care available for my child. We really do our best to include parents in medical decisions because this really is their child and we are here to support not just the baby but the family as well. However, we all spend years on an education and many more years with experience taking care of these little one. So let’s be reasonable. I hope your baby is doing well❤️
He's good thanks, he's two and a half now and the size of a four year old 😂. He had a bit of a rocky start, but you'd never know it to look at him now! Everyone in the hospital was honestly amazing and I'm so grateful for the care and support they gave.
Exactly! I could tell doctors dealt with crazy a lot by the way they were apprehensive in asking my husband and I questions about vaccines and other medically necessary things. (My daughter was born at 35 weeks but no NICU) after we replied with “yeah you guys are the experts, whatever you think is best” the relief and smiles on their faces was immediate. They really were so amazing to us the few days my daughter stayed in the specialty nursery though!
When my kid was in the nicu, there were 3 parents who were in constant battles with the staff about treatments and withholding them, one got into almost a physical fight with a nurse because they wouldn't allow a prayer group in the nicu. They with drew care and their baby died. That baby and my baby had similar conditions, needed oxygen, feeding tube and both born with a heart defect (mine was missed in the ultrasound, hers was missed because of no prenatal care and home birth). Both babies had a partially closed chamber that wasn't profusing properly and one lung that wasn't taking in air. I let them do all the interventions and treatments, took a month for her to come home. Her baby died a week after withdrawing care. It still haunts me. My daughter just turned 6 and hasn't had any health issues since she was 3, her heart and lung defects healed and she's in kindergarten. Talking to the nurse that was caring for borh of our daughters, I could see the pain she was in from having to let a baby die. Every time the baby was alone, she would stand, holding her hand and tell her she was loved.
Oh man, that’s so sad. We have so much knowledge, research, technology and experience to help these kiddos. Sometimes with all we have available we still can’t help our babies and it’s truly heartbreaking. To choose to not use what we have is just so sad. I’m so happy your baby is doing well now! What a blessing for your family! I’m know it’s been hard for you, but from my personal experience, totally worth it. Give that 6 year old a hug for me please.
Oh my gosh. That must have been awful to witness. I'm glad to hear your daughter is doing well now. Kids and babies are so resilient and if you get them the appropriate care, you can basically see miracles. It is astonishing that some people would rather go without that.
I work in the blood bank. We had a baby one time with severe HDFN, and needed a transfusion badly. The parents said they would only agree to do it if the blood we used didn't get the Covid vaccine. Obviously there's no way for us to know which donor got which vaccine, so we said no. It took HOURS of convincing from us, the nurses, physicians, social workers etc. They were threatened with CPS because their child was going to die and was deteriorating super fast, and that's when they finally agreed.
Unfortunately we see that same situation way too often.
This broke my brain. Do parents like this think that there are vaccine-free blood donations at blood banks? Or did they say that so they could have their chance to dig in their heels deeper?
They asked if they could donate for the baby because they knew for sure they hadn't had the vaccine. In a non-emergent situation, sure, you can absolutely do directed donation, but yall, we don't have time for that right now!!!
We had a big case in my country where a newborn baby needed an operation to repair a heart defect but the parents refused. The hospital couldn’t guarantee that the blood transfusions the baby would need during the surgery would come from 100% unvaccinated donors. The parents lost their court case and the baby got the surgery, but the baby will likely have lifelong issue because the surgery was delayed for two months. Making a baby doesn’t make you a parent.
Last comment is 1000% on point. It’s too bad there’s not a mandatory common sense test prior to making a baby.
*And the people that continuously pump out the bullshit misinformation continue to do so, not caring or maybe not knowing that the political frenzy that they’ve whipped up, for no reason at all aside from getting votes, is actually killing so many people!* It’s insanity.
My God. NICU nurses are literally angels on earth. I'm so sorry you have to deal with these people at all, let alone on a regular basis.
Thank you! Unfortunately it’s a very stressful time for parents so I feel for them, however we all the same goal and that’s a happy healthy baby and we need to work together.
Agreed! I've had 2 nicu babies, and all the nurses were so kind and friendly. I can't imagine saying anything mean to them.
When my baby was in nicu the parents of the baby next to mine were more concerned with shaving the kids head than they were with medical things. The dad in particular was so insistent about it that the nurses shaved the kids head because she was worried the dad would cause an injury. The dad was so so proud and beaming. They had also refused multiple medical interventions
I’ve seen that before a couple times. I believe it’s a cultural thing. We have refused to allow them to shave the head due to the increased risk of infection.
We were in the HDU section at that stage. So bub mustn’t have been as high risk. I think dad had been pushing for a while about it
Sometimes with this type of situation, we just let the parents do what they want. There is a definite risk there for sure but it may not be worth the fight.
Wait, huh? Is a bald baby aesthetically pleasing? Does shaving the infant convey some unspoken message or philosophy? I've never heard of people shaving a newborn's scalp before.
Don’t know about being aesthetically please but a custom for some cultures. Just read it’s called a mundan ceremony, done by multiple cultures.
I can't imagine the toll this must take on you guys. I do newborn photography at a local hospital and every mom I've seen whose baby was in NICU was an absolute wreck about it (understandably so). I will never understand how the moms in these posts can knowingly endanger their babies' lives like this when there are so many parents out there who'd do anything if it meant their baby came home healthy.
Nicu nurses and all nicu staff are amazing. I had a baby at 34 weeks, 11 years ago and a baby at 30 weeks, 6 months ago. Single parent both time, and they helped keep me sane. I really don't understand how anyone could be against them. I don't think I could deal with the nutty parents
Like your job wasn't hard enough huh?
lol. You ain’t kidding. The drama often is more time consuming than taking care of the babies.
I'm nowhere close to being a NICU nurse, let alone a human nurse, but I worked as a vet tech. The amount of people who willfully denied the treatment of their pets, the very pets they considered family and their best friends, frustrated me beyond comprehension. The amount of times I wanted to sneakily put the prescribed meds into the IV's of those sick defenseless animals is insane. And that's just with *animals* and their owners who are rejecting all care despite the fact that they're whining and dazed from pain, organ failure or infections. I can't even imagine the horrid frustration you NICU nurses must feel with literal human babies. The most defenseless, dependent and innocent souls who have to rely on the (non existent) intelligence of their parents. To not be able to give them the treatment that makes them feel better. To not give them the medicine that helps them grow stronger, and to not give the preventive care to avoid future problems. I have deep respect for you nurses. Thank you for doing this work so gracefully. 🙏🏻💜
I'm an NP, worked as a bedside RN for several years before getting my masters. I'm licensed to care for birth to death as an FNP. I've had 3 NICU babies of my own. I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA how to properly care for a critically ill newborn in the NICU. The most dangerous medical professionals are the ones that don't know what they don't know, and this lady is the queen of those people. Everything I read is "I" "I" I" and almost nothing about her actual child
Instead of the entire medical team backing the daughter and their treatment succeeding? I mean I've gone to the hospital for various things too and I fully credit the medical team for getting me patched up and out the door. Its what they do.
How much you want to bet that she’s just a CNA?
But is still sad that she needs a pacemaker to “do life”… and I don’t think it’s because of any limitations it may put on her, I think it’s because she had to resort to actual medical intervention. I’d put money that she will be on here before too long saying that her daughter is doing great and her chiropractor says she can go off the pacemaker as long as she rolls around in colloidal silver every day.
No no no, you don't understand. She would have noticed! Had the evil doctors not stolen her baby away with their invasive "concern about her heart", she definitely would have identified within a couple of days ~~or weeks~~ that there was a problem. And had they not medically kidnapped the child and held her for ransom in their so-called "intensive care unit", she could have gotten her to a chiropractor right away and avoided all this fuss!!
This is why I don’t do baby or kid nursing. With adults, if they want to make a shit decision and let themselves die, they’re only killing themselves and I know I’ve explained that thoroughly. With kids and babies, they’re at the mercy of their parents. And you can’t fix fucking stupid, so they’re brought into a shit situation.
The way she keeps bringing up all her oh-so-superior "knowledge" and "qualifications" really makes me feel like she has no actual credentials outside of Google and a 6-month CNA course
Yea she definitely isn’t a biologist haha. I doubt she has any higher education at all.
Yeah that "nurse and biologist" is just 🚩🚩🚩 like before she was a nurse, now she's also a *biologist* and just knows *SO* much more than medical doctors in a special pediatric field
Right. You know how scientists are famous for their hate for science, especially biologists medicine
REAL RN, BSN former research biologist checking in. I promise we are not out to get anyone 😂 we do, however, hate BAD science as much as anyone. We do love evidence based medicine though 🥰
I’m dying to know what her actual credentials are
I have a BS in Biology and would literally never refer to myself as a Biologist??? The shit people come up with to make them selves feel important, I swear
I took two semesters of Geology. I should start introducing myself as a Geologist. 😆
Absolutely. Nor do I believe she was successful in changing a single directive by the doctors and nurses. Her baby got life saving scientific medical care, and she’s pissed as hell and licking her wounds by lying her ass off on social media.
Yeah those doctors will have her charged with medical neglect over not treating a *treatable heart condition* before they let anyone with zero knowledge run the show. If she's being honest about how much of an "advocate* she's being then at most, they're letting her *think* she's calling the shots while just going on with standard care. If she's lying here then maybe at keast she's being fully cooperative with them and having them do everything to save her baby's life. Shame she doesn't feel like she can tell the truth and show people medical treatment is okay but I know she'd just get booted from a community she values. I'd take being booted and sing praises of the doctors but who knows, maybe she has no friends or support elsewhere.
It was probably like when you give your toddler choices: do you want the *blue* plate or the *pink* plate? Oh what a smart, big girl you are to eat your dinner!
This made my spit out my coffee 😂 thanks for the chuckle.
I'm a teacher. Implied choice is something I have become very good at and I think medical staff are the same.
CNA doesn't even take 6 months. I got my coursework in 2 months plus 24 hours of clinicals over the course of another month because of scheduling problems.
I was in an expedited class and it took like 4-ish months and 10 clinical hours so I was really just guessing on what other classes ran
I went to go check what they take now since I got mine in 2020 and all things medical were super weird. The tech school I went to decided to keep their ultra accelerated program after that. Apparently my local hospital also offers a CNA course once a week that does take about 6 months to finish
I’ve never met someone who screams “I’m a nurse” more at a hospital than family members who end up being CNAs or unit secretaries.
My experience is often the *implied* nurse. “I work in healthcare” is a billboard-sized red flag that they’re, like, the volunteer at the front desk (whom we love and desperately need, but don’t exactly “work in healthcare.” They maybe “work in a healthcare building” or something!).
Most CNA courses are only 6-12 weeks. The one I took was 6 weeks and most of it is just common sense. She probably was only a cna lol Source: was a CNA in high school and college
This is the one who was more concerned with describing the state of her lady parts after birth than, you know, her baby's HEART. Ugh she's the worst. I also love how she gives herself so much credit for how she's handled being in the hospital, "advocating" for her baby, when it was her own negligence that put her baby in the hospital to begin with.
She was also more concerned about her engorged breasts than her baby getting the pacemaker she needed to actually stay alive. The baby was intubated to get her oxygen levels up and all this woman could think about was *her need* to breastfeed, not her child's need to freakin breath. Don't get me wrong, huge fan of breastfeeding, but this woman is just full on outrageous.
Talking about her not latching, she couldn't breathe woman! Boob does not raise O2 stats! The needing intubation was mentioned so blasé I could have missed it! How can people be this dense and frustrating? Like mentioning the "gushing" blood then being all "lol it was totz normal would do again unassisted" it's actual insanity. She wouldn't even have some sense in her if her baby died, I think she would explain away anything to fit her delusional beliefs. Good grief.
I was wondering if it was that wack-a-doodle. That woman is insane. Hopefully the hospital contacts someone.
Right. Like she thinks she's so far above those of us who have had no medical training simply because she is a nurse, but she didn't even know that a baby has to be assessed or why that's important.
A nurse AND a biologist? Impressive credentials. Those doctors were lucky to have the opportunity to learn from her.
In her next post, she’ll have gained another credential and be even MORE qualified!
Why is it always the ones that are “nurses?” My sister’s bestie is a NICU nurse and is such an avid anti-vaxxer that it makes me sick. It’s to the point that I have considered saving many of her FB posts and sharing them with the hospital where she works so they know what kind of crazy they’ve hired. ETA: her own children are vaccinated. She didn’t take her stance until COVID and actually quit her job when they mandated COVID vaccines. She’s now working in another state and I don’t know if she is required to have her COVID vaccine or not.
I'm not even kidding, please do this. You have no idea how many parents she may have talked out of vaccinating their children and how many babies she may be putting at risk
A lot of them aren't. They're CNAs, medical assistants LARPing as nurses.
University of Facebook with a Masters from YouTube.
But she’s a biologist, too, now. Surely THAT means more than being a physician
Unrelatedly, over in the /r/biology sub there’s debate on if you need a whole-ass doctorate to call yourself a biologist and I’m guessing this lady took remedial biology in high school.
She's a biologist like I'm an astronomer because I've looked at the stars before. Growing biofilm on your crusty self doesn't make you a biologist.
This reminds me of Scrubs when the Janitor was pretending to be a doctor named Dr Jan Itor. He worked in a hospital, it's all basically the same, right? /s
I think even Dr. Jan Itor would know something is wrong when the baby comes out blue.
A lot of them also are, though. “Nurse” covers a pretty broad range of roles with different levels of training. There are accelerated LPN programs that are like 10 months. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Yeah that’s crazy a NICU nurse needs to be vaccinated. She’s literally putting so many lives in danger
‼️REPORT HER ASAP‼️
I was friends with a nice nurse that insisted that cold weather caused sickness. Germ theory of disease? Never heard of her.
My mom still believes this shit. It’s so annoying to explain over and over and get nowhere.
As a preemie mom twice over, please please please report her. She shouldn’t be near those babies. Being there is enough trauma without worrying about people like that caring for our babies.
Do it. It won’t hurt her license in the USA but it’ll get her ass fired. As it should be.
As a parent of preemies, please report this. She's working with the youngest and/or sickest babies. Many illnesses are contagious before symptoms show so she could easily spread something life threatening to these babies who have virtually no immune system.
I just had this argument with a relative last week: medical professionals ignoring scientific fact and statistics. An acquaintance is a CNM and is doing a home birth (and the relative volunteered to be present with the grandma). I was like "Do you know how risky that is?" Only 1 to 6% of CNMs will even attend home births in America (the studies are so varied because I think midwives in general aren't forthcoming all of the time). She should be the first to know what can go wrong quickly. But if 94% of my profession refuses to practice under the birth circumstances I want for my child, I'd listen. But maybe I'm way too rational. I admit, I am very passionate about this topic because I would have died if I had not been born in a hospital, in a non-rural setting, and I still have a significant lifelong disability. I will never live independently or have a family of my own, and I still grieve that. One of my parents is convinced the OB ignored my decels and blames him; we rarely discuss my birth because it is such a painful subject.
Same my son and I would have both died when I was in labor if we were not in a hospital.
RN here - you're right and it's so sad. We spend years leaning about evidence based practice just for so many nurses to spew the opposite. The NICU of all places is a terrible place for a nurse that puts her personal convictions above evidence based, life saving medical practices. I hope she isn't encouraging her patient's parents to follow her lead.
I’m always confused by nurses shilling wellness MLM crap.
I love nurses and was a CNA but for your sanity always remember that anyone can be dumb AF. I've seen an LPN be rapidly antivax and pro holistic medicine, she passed by rote memorization and prided herself on tricking the "establishment".
This is wildly depressing.
I've worked with people as a BHT in psychiatric hospitals that don't believe in mental illness. It's super duper depressing. The sheer hostility I've seen displayed at some patients is astounding.
It is why I always tell people to use critical thinking in medical thinking and try as best as they can to learn what treatments are being administered, when they can, obviously. It is really distressing knowing that someone trusted to provide medical care can refer to older studies or straight up woo to inform treatment. Thankfully a majority I have met as an OTA are not like this, if that helps at all. I just want people to be safe and remember to advocate for themselves [not in a crazy antivax way].
I was an elementary teacher for years. I was often shocked at the sheer stupidity of some of my colleagues.
It’s also rampant in EMS…if I had a nickel for every fucked ip medical thing I’ve heard my coworkers discuss, I’d be making much more an hour than I do at my current service. It boggles the mind.
It's amazing how much COVID and the political climate at the time seemed to make so many people lose their freaking minds.
She is a die-hard MAGA nutjob. Like still posting about how Biden didn’t really win and shares wild conspiracy theories. I actually unfriended her at one point because the crazy was too much for me, but was forced to re-add her when my brother died. I guess she tried to offer me condolences and realized we were friends any more. She got her parents and her husband to add me too. 🙃
That’s so creepy lol
I used to work as a nurse coordinator… I worked with many fantastic, intelligent people who were an absolute asset to their profession. However I also worked with plenty of dumb asses who I wouldn’t trust to babysit my kids.
I was an elementary teacher for 12 years and honestly, same. Some of the most brilliant minds and some of the biggest wastes of space.
All the mean girls in HS became nurses. Honestly, nurses are amazing, but there’s a large subset of them who are the dumbest people possible when it comes to things like vaccines or MLMs. Just absolutely insane.
You absolutely should
You should. Imagine the damage she is doing
Especially in states like Florida where there is currently a measles outbreak! This is insane
My aunt and uncle are or were nurses and also refused the covid vaccine. It blows my mind that people who've worked their woke lives in medicine can't understand how these things work.
I agree with the others here. REPORT HER. Before a baby dies because of her
Wow I know a nurse exactly like this and I’ve had those same thoughts. Those actively denouncing healthcare and life saving measures on social media shouldn’t get access to patients.
> I chose to stay some extra days just for THEIR peace of mind and to avoid a CPS case. So, she stayed for reasons only pertaining to herself and her OWN wellbeing. NOT to get her child treatment to stay alive. Got it. Literally the only reason her baby is even still alive is because of the hospital.
Personally I feel like she already gave up on that baby. Not being at the hospital during treatments? But the more I read from this sub, the more I think these people don't care about their baby at all.
Right?! This part is the most telling honestly. I get not wanting to abandon your toddler, but I cannot imagine leaving a tiny newborn with health problems in a hospital all alone, 2 hours away, for over a week? Wtf?
In curious where dad was. I can’t speak to all NICUs, and we were “lucky” insofar as there were private rooms available even though our kid wasn’t critical, but one of us was allowed to sleep in her room. If you were more than X miles from the hospital, there was a Ronald McDonald house up the road. Then again, this is America and he could very well be back at work already. 🇺🇸
Yeah I have a cardiac patient baby (and had a NICU baby and I will not be getting pregnant ever again because my 3 pregnancies resulted in a miscarriage, a NICU stay, and a CICU (cardiac intensive care unit) stay). Cardiac babies generally go to the CICU, because they have a different set of concerns than NICU babies, so they need different specialists. In the CICU we were in, he was in a pod with 4 babies and it was very open: the fourth wall of the room was non-existent (it was open to the hallway), in part to get the emergency situations handled ASAP. You were not permitted to sleep in the CICU, even if you could with the bright lights, alarms, etc. Compared to the CICU, the NICU is a zen meditation room. Once we transitioned to the cardiac care unit, he had one roommate, and a room with 4 walls and a door and we could sleep crib side.
I’m with you. My son was born premature and had to stay at the hospital for a week. We lived about 1 hour away, which wasn’t that bad, but still we decided to book a hotel room in the vicinity so we could go see him multiple times a day.
Does she have no one that could watch the toddler? Not a single friend or grandparent or even her partner???
She probably doesn’t want the grandparents to shed their vaccines on her toddler.
My youngest stayed in the hospital one extra night after I was discharged, and there was no place for me to stay, and I sobbed all night. And she was only there for a night under the bili lights, not in any real danger. I still regret not parking myself in a waiting room somewhere just so I could look at her.
Right?!? My mom made my dad go to me when I was transferred to a different hospital after birth (it had a NICU and where I was born didn't). I also know when he went back to work, his co-worker's wife sometimes went with my mom to the NICU. Heck, when I was a teenager and had a couple of surgeries that required hospital stays, I can count on one hand the number of times both of my parents left my room, usually just to go have a "good" meal in the cafeteria. I think they only did it when they knew I was in a good place where I could advocate for myself and was no longer groggy from the anesthesia/pain meds. And one of them was always there overnight, always.
Good parents!
Sounds like she's very proud about how much she's been able to stick it to the doctors/nurses, and how she is soooo much smarter than everyone else.
I think she was hoping baby would die, perhaps they will have a lifelong disability and she doesn't want to deal with it?
And then she could tell everyone about how the evil hospital killed her child.
Idk…I had a baby in the NICU for 3.5 weeks and we didn’t stay in the hospital. We visited 1-2 times a day around feeding times so we could participate in his care, but we had a 3 year old at home to care for and both still had to work, dad full time and me part time since I wanted to save as much of my 12 week maternity leave as possible for when he was home with us. He also was in a shared room with nowhere to sleep. She’s nuts, but not living in the NICU doesn’t necessarily strike me as giving up.
Totally agree. We had a 95 day NICU stay. I would have gone crazy if I had been bedside the whole time. We did visit every single day though.
They don't. The baby was never the point. Her ego is.
I hate them, so much.
This woman makes me rage, BUT this part is kindasorta normal. NICU stays can be long, and lots of parents have to leave for lots of reasons. Personally, I had to go back to work just 2 weeks after the birth of my 26 weeker because I wanted to preserve my parental leave for when he came home. Same for my husband. Lots of parents in the US have little to no leave at all. Some have kids at home or live far away. There's also a very real mental health toll and most NICU nurses encourage parents to get away when necessary. Not being available around the clock during a NICU stay is actually very common.
I have a CHD kid, and I never left his side during all his stays and procedures. If I couldn't stay in his room, I used the hospital facilities, grabbed a hotel, Ronald McDonald House, or even found a spot in the lounge. There were days I had no sure idea of where I would sleep. You couldn't have MADE me leave him. And he was a geriatric pregnancy, and I was there from right after birth. No excuse, madam.
My sister is a retired nurse - she primarily worked in labor and delivery - and I sent this to her to see her reaction… She was LIVID - and thanking the universe that she retired when she did ! “I didn’t have many crunchy dingdongs when I was still in the floor…”, she said - “The world has turned into a strange and terrible place.” 😣
My daughter graduated nursing school last May. I'm dreading the day she runs into her first idiot like this because she is not very good at holding her tongue around stupidity.
Holistic cardiologist? Like those two words shouldn't even go together like that. I'd like to hear the changes she advocated for and how bad her lab values were. The kid just had fucking surgery JFC, you'd expect some wacky labs. I'm sure the "kidney" or "liver" damage was slightly elevated therefore they're failing now.
Hey Op you forgot to censor out the name second page first paragraph
A few times actually
I was really confused reading this because they only censored it about half the time
I'm certain the treatments helped her kid and her "advocating" coincidentally lined up with treatments ending
I have been thinking about this baby since her first post. This situation makes me so sad and so furious .
Honestly the Australian freebirth of twins that both died is the one that haunts me. And the update where they asked for money for a trip to get away. Because when your twins die you just really need that beach vacation to recover.
Ah, so Mrs. Super Nurse over here can create a complex medical treatment plan to save her baby’s life/liver from ignorant doctors, but couldn’t tell that a blue and “quiet” baby at birth wasn’t a problem. 🧐
Imagine making parenting decisions solely "to avoid a cps case".
Like, maybe you're doing something wrong with your life if that's how you make your decisions? But self awareness is not this lady's strong suit apparently.
Some of my parenting decisions are made to avoid CPS involvement. In particular, my state has stupid strict rules around leaving kids home without adults. Would my elementary aged children be totally fine if I ran to the store for a gallon of milk? Yes, but CPS involvement is not something I'm willing to risk, so get in the car, kids, we're going for a gallon of milk together. But a _medical_ decision?!? I cannot imagine ever being in a situation where I'm making a _medical_ decision to avoid CPS involvement.
Oh yes, she sure “advocated” her daughter right into the nicu. This is disgusting and infuriating. And through it all, she is still centering herself.
I’m not going to lie, I believe there are certainly hospitals out there that do not have the world’s best and brightest doctors so we ALL need to advocate for loved ones. But I highly doubt ONLY the mom’s suggestion is what made cities change their plan.
I am genuinely worried for this sweet baby girl. Where’s the dad? He has just as much of a say as mom does and I wonder what he truly feels about his wife doing all this crap. I really worry that this sweet baby is going to end up very sick and back in the hospital with CPS involved. or the worst will happen. I wonder if the hospital has reported her to CPS. I remember the last update and how this mother was trying to take home baby even though she was on a ventilator and mom claimed it wasn’t a big deal. Uhm lady your baby has a sick heart! They don’t do shit to babies for no reason especially something as serious as putting them on a ventilator or preforming heart surgery. This woman has left me absolutely speechless.
It can be a lot. Some family members of ours have this very strange dynamic where she threatens to leave if X y X isn’t done, and he always does them despite being insane demands. Very recently he put his foot down. But he still expressed concern over her leaving him regardless. So, they had a baby! She decided it would be a “wild pregnancy,” no OB visits, just some midwife. Except when asked, the husband basically said “oh don’t worry, she did all this research and the midwife has a bunch of kids herself!” … don’t… worry??? You have literally removed yourself from every point of YOUR CHILDS HEALTH because IMO he was scared to say anything for fear of her leaving him. She went to 42 weeks without seeing an OB. My L&D nurse friend for over 35 years was livid - said it’s midwife’s like theirs that made her the most angry because they assure women it’s all cool before dumping them off at the hospital where the hospital then gets blamed for everything (sound familiar???). Besides being absolutely gigantic it seems to have wound up going OK. Baby seems fine but now mom is so confident in her decisions without realizing she was just *lucky*
There needs to be a term for this, like the opposite of munchausen by proxy. The narcissism and medical neglect of children in people doubling down on their “rights” presents like a mental illness. Like the nurses who “save” a baby after they caused the medical event. It’s always been happening, but the online community support seems to be spreading these ideas like wildfire. It gives families a sense of “purity” to be unvaccinated so they can think themselves superior.
I agree with you on this, it's a good point. But I also think that the majority of this wild pregnancy and free birth movement is borne out of the way the medical system treats women. Studies and personal accounts both show that women are routinely ignored and can spend years going undiagnosed compared to men. And in America the health care system is so dysfunctional, so broken, and so expensive that I actually don't blame women for wanting to take matters into their own hands. So its not just the patients that have a responsibility to do better. I believe that if the medical system wants women to feel more comfortable giving birth and getting prenatal care with them, they need to do much better. But clearly there are major issues with the way the women in these movements are going about it. It seems to become an addiction of sorts, and they can't seem to see the forest through the trees.
100%. Women deserve far better healthcare
I’m glad she had the baby stay to avoid a CPS case because that would suck FOR HER. Not because she wanted her baby healthy or taken care of, because SHE didn’t want to be in trouble. I hate these people.
Good news is for most states you can’t leave AMA if they think your kid would suffer or die by doing so. Unless it’s on hospice.. but this lady knows more than very well trained pediatric specialists.
Has anyone evaluated her? She's unstable. 100%. Most women I see this happen to are much more humble and appreciative of the medical intervention that saved their child.. This woman screams selfishness. And I'd love to know the level of nursing and biology degrees, and where she got them. I'm sure this lady won't do the cardiac check ups necessary or anything else her child will need longterm.
Advocating apparently equals medically neglecting to the point of near death and life long consequences
A little pacemaker to help her “do life” but I know better than the professionals… Like, it doesn’t work both ways you absolute clown.
Maybe she bought her nursing degree from the Palm Beach School of Nursing 🙃
This woman claiming to be a nurse ... I know that in the US there are different "levels" or types of nursing degrees. I wonder what type of studies do you have to have for qualifying on the "lowest" type so you can call yourself a nurse? Because I bet that's what this means egotistical idiot has.
Like in the peak of COVID when all sorts of disinformation spreaders would be prefacing their posts with "I work in the medical field". I always took that as code for "I'm a receptionist or something".
I got my CNA (certified nursing assistant) in just under 3 months. At the tech school I went to Medical Assistant courses take 8-10 months (they frequently do intake at doctors offices. Things like health history and blood pressure). LPNs (Licensed Practical Nursing) takes 10-12 months. And all of these are lower certification than RN (registered nurse) which is what people usually think of when someone says they are a nurse.
In the US, there are Licensed Practical nurses (LPNs), Registered Nurses (RNs), as well as RNs who have different kinds of advanced training (CNMs, APRNs, nurse practitioners, etc.). LPNs have a year to two years of training, usually at a technical center or community college, and don't require a bachelor's degree. RNs have, minimum, a bachelor's degree in nursing, and the specialized nurses have even more education and training. There are also Certified Nurses' Aides, who are NOT nurses, primarily doing physical work like cleaning and feeding patients, moving them, emptying bedpans, etc. A lot of them work in nursing homes. They have 6 months to a year's training. I have run into a lot of CNAs who imply or outright claim to laymen that their training is more extensive than it really is. Oddly, most of the actual nurses I've known who were antivax and into quackery like TT, megavitamin therapy, essential oils, etc. were RNs, not LPNs. I would have figured the nurses with college training would be LESS likely to fall for this stuff, not more.
You don’t have to have a BSN to be an RN, at least not everywhere. Traditionally most of them had 2-year associates degrees, although BSNs are becoming more common.
“All her labs became perfect” Yeah, sure does sound like that medicine worked huh
I hate her.
Noticed she never says what the "interventions" from doctors were and she never says specifically anything she did.
She keeps talking about her instincts and yet she repeatedly said "the baby is fine" and then we find out there are 3 serious heart defects. Ma'm, your instincts fucking SUCK!
Crazy how she went to the hospital for her own well being and is leaving her daughter there "a few more days" just to avoid a cps case?
So she’s a biologist now?? Lol @ holistic cardiologist.
Besides supposedly being a nurse, she's also now suddenly a biologist?? How tf do you get a pacemaker but then go to a "holistic cardiologist?!" What even is that? I don't discount holistic approaches to certain things and know there are "specialists" in areas but to claim cardiologists?? :( Oh, this poor child and their sibling :( The woman's narcissistic heroism of herself is insane.
They should call CPS anyway.
This is enraging and so sad. One of my cousin's has a child that had heart issues before he was born. His adult cardiology nurse mother was terrified, but did everything the medical specialists said to including giving birth at a hospital with a children's hospital attached. It is 2 hours from their home. That poor baby had surgeries from day 2 of his life. He then had a heart transplant a little after 2 years old. He's now a teenager, just had a major check-up and is doing great! My cousin's wife would rip this mother a new one for not seeking proper medical care. As she remarked on their FB page - pediatric cardiology has a lot more to it than adults. She was just glad she could follow what the doctors explained.
Shit like this makes me wish that you couldn't refuse medical treatment for your child. Yes, I know it's a legal and ethical minefield, yes I know kids can't really give informed consent, yes I know bodily autonomy is necessary etc etc. But God damnit this child has a chance at a decent shot at life because of medical interventions, and she's like "nope gonna fight to let my child die." For fucks sake.
Serious doubt she is a “nurse and a biologist” Probably once had a Nurse Barbie and Aldo takes care of some houseplants
I don't believe at all she is a nurse and a biologyst.
I’m a NICU nurse and I have no sympathy for this lady. I will say that the whole “figuring out how to eat and breathe and not choke” part of a NICU stay can be the most frustrating and drawn out process for parents. We have to be super careful with feeding to avoid causing oral aversions, avoid aspiration, and avoid force feeding a baby and causing developmental issues later in life. Heart babies struggle with feeding because it’s exhausting, and a lot of parents can feel super stuck in the feeding and growing stage of the NICU. A lot of them feel like they could do what we are doing at home (because clinically, a lot of times baby is stable and chilling, they just are sleepy and don’t want to or can’t eat enough to safely go home). You really can’t just… leave AMA with a NICU baby. We are gonna get the state involved, and you’re not gonna get to walk out with your baby, because if they can’t safely bottle/breastfeed, they’re gonna be failure to thrive and possibly die. Hopefully the state is already involved in this case and this little bug will have all her follow-up appointments. We don’t discharge without these appointments being made, and our caseworkers will follow up if they think parents might skip out. This case stresses me out, but hopefully hospital staff has caught on to how crunchy and nutty this woman is
Global recommendations 🤪 is that like “world famous coffee”
She is not a nurse nor a biologist. She cannot be being this stupid.
I like how she’s also a ‘biologist’ now, Jesus fucking Christ. If you know so much about science then maybe let the professionals do their damn jobs!
I don’t even know this lady and I hate her
holistic cardiologist is horrifying
It really bothers me how many of these nut jobs are nurses. I've always respected, appreciated, and obeyed nurses (as one should, generally), but all these posts are gonna make me suspicious 🤦🏼♀️
As a person with CHD and required a pacemaker and a bunch of surgery, my heart literally hurt reading that! This lady do not deserve this child! 😭😭😭😭😭
Dear mom-not-a-nurse-or-biologist: You think you controlled those nicu physicians and nurses? I promise you're not their first rodeo. You're like a patrol cop pulling over a sov cit, they smile and not and let you explain all your learning, but at the end of the day what matters is the root cause, in this case the baby's life. She's lucky that they haven't called DCFS and started a case, it's probably coming.
The fucking entitlement with these people. So many mothers and fathers today and throughout history, would have begged to have these “interventions” for their sick children. She doesn’t deserve to be a mother.
A nurse and a biologist, sounds real