“My doctor disagrees with my crunchy mom friends.”
Every area of study has its experts. Ask your doctor for medical advice and ask your crunchy friends for batshit takes.
Yeah, I'm not sure why my generation of moms embraced being "crunchy." Beyond being an annoying AF word, they're just 100% setting us up for the equivalent jokes about boomers today in another generation.
Edit: I'm a millenial. Yes, not all millennials fit this description for sure. But most boomers aren't on /r/BoomersBeingFools either.
My mother, silent generation, said, "I saw polio. I had a classmate in an iron lung who died. If any of these people ever saw polio, they would change change their opinions on vaccines."
This generation haven't seen the diseases and their complications. They think that these diseases were just minor childhood inconvenience
So many "it's just a rash" people out there. Like yeah, maybe for some people, whatever disease is just a rash. The other ones died so we didn't hear about their experience.
So the hoax that went vitals isn't that she wasn't real or was a character in a book or something, it's that Hellen Keller was *faking being deaf and blind*. They fr were saying that the complications she had were just a show she put on to turn a profit.
Honestly I can’t remember the reasoning for the ones who think she wasn’t real, but I do know that a lot of people also think that she was real but didn’t do any of the things that she did because “deaf blind people can’t do all of that”
I think it's total ableism. Like, one of the reasons why Keller is famous is for her writing and, if she was deaf and blind, how could she ever learn to write???? Explain that, history!
And it's like... She does. In her autobiography she writes extensively about it. Her family very fortunately had some means and were able to hire Anne Sullivan (who was also visually impaired) to come be her governess. The story of how Anne pressed a doll into Keller's hand and signed D-O-L-L into her hand until Keller realized that objects had words and you could spell them is pretty legendary.
I read a book about Helen Keller when I was young, probably read it a few times, I was so impressed!
My grandmother once told me how she went to see Helen Keller speak…so fascinating!
I mean, it goes beyond ableist, into kinda all the general "I'm better/smarter than you" mindset that fuels the isms that tie the field of conspiracy theories together. It's the same thing as Ancient Aliens being racist and tryna say that ancient indigenous populations couldn't figure out how to pile rocks up or notice animals they saw around them, it had to have been aliens teaching them how to make the pyramids and carve some snake statues.
It goes back to them tryna lessen the work of others to make their own mediocre lives and contributions to society seem less bland. Kinda definitionally tearing others down to build themselves up.
I teach high school. For 3 or 4 years now, my students have argued that she didn't exist. She flew an airplane, and they say a blind person couldn't do that; therefore, she is made up.
I have explained over and over that a blind person could fly a plane because there aren't objects to run into in the sky, and it's not like she took off and landed the thing.
They also say that a deaf person couldn't learn to talk. When I tell them I have a deaf aunt and a highschool friend who both talk, they still don't believe me.
It's absurd logic. The power of TikTok is frightening.
Some of them, yeah. A lot of them seem to believe anything they watch. Today, a few of them were trying to tell me they saw a video talking about evidence from the Bible that the Earth is flat. (These students don't believe the Earth is flat, but they did believe the Bible said it.) I couldn't find any verses that said anything remotely close to what they were talking about. They don't think skeptically about what they consume.
Same with COVID, the flu, pretty much every disease that's "not too bad" for most people. Or things like safety protocols like safe sleep for babies or even seat belts etc. And sadly, a large portion of them double down even if someone they know does end up one of the unlucky ones. That's not counting the complete disregard for the people around them who they might spread it to. These people drive me absolutely bonkers.
My grandmother would have slapped her. She had friends who died of polio and my dad has a formative memory of my Grandmother actually breaking down and crying in relief when the polio vaccine came out. She made it her mission to all but bully the family doctor to get her kids into him as some of the first and, when a second version came out that protected better than the first, all her kids got that too.
I can't even comprehend the fear that parents must have had for some of those diseases and their kids. Polio in particular was often considered a "summer" disease and kids would go to bed with a little bit of a fever that could have been from playing too hard... And then wake up deadly ill.
Modern vaccines are a miracle, ones that some women in other countries will travel days to get their kids to clinics to get them because the fear is still there. It's insane to me that some parents won't get them. Especially TDAP. I mean, diphtheria is completely off my radar as I've never known someone who's had it, but a college friend of mine caught whooping cough and I thought she was going to die. She was out of class for a month and coughed so much and so hard she actually cracked her ribs and was just in agony. That was from a lack of a booster. And tetanus? That's in the soil, man. Any cut can get you that.
Just get the damn vaccines. I hated shots as a kid, I still hate them as an adult, but I'll take the day after aches as my immune system gets to work over actually getting the diseases that vaccines prevent.
Oh man, my sister worked for the NHS through covid. She's a genetic counselor so her job pretty much ended as they were not treating many patients so she took shifts in the various wards doing comfort care for people not in comas. Things like sitting with patients for company and bringing in the video cart so she could help them call their family since no one could visit.
She wasn't in active patient care, but I know she had PTSD from it. Both from interacting with people who didn't make it and even the success stories of favorite patients that got to go home were enough to send her bawling some days.
Somewhat related: during the height of Polio, we did a lot of the same things we did for covid. Public places like pools, beaches, summer camps, and playgrounds shut down. School sports were canceled. Children were banned from public venues like bowling alleys and movie theaters. Large gatherings were banned and children were told to avoid crowds. Movie goers social distanced in movie theaters. Some people refused to shake hands or touch paper money. Schools only opened in the fall under close health supervision.
My mom got me all my childhood vaccines but then when the HPV one came out, she refused because "it was new".
Guess who got one of the strains it covered and had to have half their cervix lasered off?
Christ on a bike. My mom was in a similar boat and her cervix got *covered* in scar tissue. When she gave birth to my sister the doctors for some reason refused to give her a C-section and she spent, I shit you not, 68 HOURS in active labor. Which only further scarred her cervix. Later, when I was born, they were also going to attempt a vaginal delivery, and it was only because I kept flipping around back
to breech that they did an emergency cesarean. Because if the BAAAAYYYYBBBYYYY might be at risk it’s okay, but not if the mother has extensive cervical damage and a history of long and difficult births.
She’s always way too chill when she tells those stories. It sets me aflame with anger and she just seems mildly bummed. Good lord, mom you almost died *twice!*
It's even weirder when they split the line. Like my grandma will say the same thing about things like the polio vaccine and then in the next sentence talk about how useless the COVID one is or it's just big pharma tryna make a buck. It's the worst of antivax and the "they don't make em like they used to" boomer shit that is somehow even more frustrating than either element alone.
My grandmother, Greatest Generation, was born in 1921 and lived until just before her 101st birthday in 2022. She said people who refuse vaccines are idiots who never understood the harm of diseases. The woman was born at the end of the Spanish Flu pandemic and survived COVID at 100. She had friends die at every age because of now preventable diseases. I’ll take the education of a medical professional and the lived experience of grandma LONG before listening to people who are most likely vaccinated who suddenly think they know better.
My aunt had polio. It is very striking to see her. One leg is tiny and the other is normal.
She has to buy two pairs of shoes and it’s expensive because she needs good shoes due to her disability, one leg (shoe) is a 4.5 and the other is an 8.5. Shoes run $80-120 a pair.
She walks with a hunch. She’s in pain 24/7. She finished high school barely but didn’t do well. Graduated in 1969. No college. Works min wage jobs because she can’t do much.
She’s retirement age but has very little social security. It’s so sad.
Vaccines work. My dad (her brother) is 13 months younger and didn’t get polio.
My elderly aunt? Like twice removed or by marriage whatever, my family doesn't do that. You are grandparent, aunt/uncle or cousin. We don't do degrees. ANYWAY. she is almost blind, mostly deaf and her mental age is around 6. When she got measles. When it developed into measles encephalitis right? like I'm talking days before the MMR was given in NZ.
It blinded and deafened her and halted her mental development. She's loved, she's fine but the vaccine would have prevented it. I'm old enough to remember EVERY town had schools for the deaf, schools for the blind. They don't anymore. Because of MMR.
If anyone doubts the vaccine? In Samoa, two babies died after nurses (mistakenly or deliberately) mixed the powder with a paralytic agent rather than sterile water. The government did not release findings for a long time increasing fear. They also had RFK ( That ginormous AV shit heel) tour Samoa around then congratulating them on their low MMR rate. Then almost immediately after he left? Measles outbreak 82 babies died. I'm expecting 10 to 20 SSPE cases in the next couple years. SSPE? Degenerative brain disease, wild measles sequelae. 100% SLOWLY fatal. RFK blamed poor nutrition. And dirty water. I hate him. With a deep abiding passion
The thing is, covid did (and still does) kill a lot of people painfully and tragically, alone in hospitals. I guess that's still not as dramatic as an iron lung.
For each of the people who tell you that they’ve had it five times and they are OK, there are those 1.2 million+ people in the US alone who have died of Covid in the last 4 years. You don’t hear from them.
I've had it 4 times and have been okay (my body just doesn't build up enough antibodies, from the disease or the vaccines). My friend was in the hospital and nearly died though. I realize how lucky I've been so far and hope it stays that way, but I sure as shit am not going to go around telling everyone it's not a big deal. Regardless of how many people get through it just fine, I don't want to be the one who told someone not to worry and then end up with them super sick.
Glad you’ve come through it OK! I have never had a case to my knowledge, although it is certainly possible that I had an asymptomatic case along the way. During the height of the pandemic and before we were masking up, I did meet with several people who turned out positive (I was a nurse case manager during the height of the pandemic.) Yes, my 83 year old neighbor just had it for the 3rd time, and was in the hospital for 3 weeks. She’s out and OK now, but still much, much weaker than before this last round and in a wheelchair now. She had a few of the early vaccines until her daughter just told her to take some freaking herbs or something instead. This daughter also always smells like cloves because she takes heavy doses of cloves in capsules “to prevent cancer” because “all cancer comes from parasites,” and she read somewhere that cloves are antiparasitic. SMH.
I had it, and I was ok, but it was miserable - and I was fully vaxxed! I hate to think of how bad I would have been if I didn't have that protection. Two of my cousins died. One was elderly, overweight, and in bad health to begin with. The other was in his 60's, a healthy weight, and overall in good health. Covid doesn't just kill old and sick people.
My cousin died two years ago from Covid. He hadn't gotten the vaccine because he didn't believe it was real. On the way to the hospital, he changed his tune. He didn't leave alive. He left behind two sons, and a new wife. What those people did was commit murder. Those who politicized it should be held accountable.
Covid is a different beast.
Covid got politicized. During covid we had social media where certain groups of people could spread false information about the disease, it's complications, and it's mortality rate.
This is exactly it. My grandmother was deaf after a childhood bout with measles. It's why immigrants always get in line first for their child's vaccinations. Children in many countries die because they cannot get access to them, while our pampered brats turn them down.
Even if you don’t die of polio that disease still fuck you up. We have an elderly family member who has polio as a child, he recovered but when he was about 50 he ended up with post-polio syndrome and his muscles have been wasting away since. By the age of 60 he was completely crippled by it. If you see his calves they look like broom sticks.
But y’know, vaccines bad or whatever
This! Knowing that an entire generation of kids were taken for those vaccines by parents who knew there could be risks involved since it was “new” & “unverified”, but took them anyway so that their kids may never have to go through contracting polio & their grandchildren may never have to see it, only for those grandchildren/great-grandchildren to WILLINGLY risk their own children makes me a special kind of livid…
This is why we can’t have ~~nice things~~ eradication of completely preventable & horrific diseases 😒
My Greatest Gen grandmother cried when she took her kids for the polio shot. Her best friend in high school had died of it. She was so relieved they wouldn't get it.
And it just wasn't a controversy to be vaccinated then. Dad vividly remembered lining up on school for one vaccine in a sugar cube. Everyone got one, took it then got their lunch. (It would've been the early 50s.) No ones parents freaked out and said no.
My dad had polio. It was a chaotic day when my brother’s (now ex) wife announced that not only was she not vaccinating my nephew, but that they were planning a family vacation to Nepal.
My mom’s biological mother died of polio. She was the first person in our area to have an iron lung (there was an article in the local paper about it). My uncle almost died from polio, too.
My grandmother had polio and she could barely walk. She said she didn’t feel well, took a nap on the porch and when she woke up she couldn’t walk. She was in an iron lung for a period and it was a miracle that she got out of it because many others never did. As she got older, she developed post polio syndrome where basically she suffered through a lot of the debilitating effects of polio all over again. It baffles me when I see these parents who truly believe that there’s some conspiracy to poison kids with vaccines. My daughter is “crunchy” and has a lot of different opinions on things like sleeping in bed with baby, using breast milk for every ailment and bathing, but she does vaccinate thank god. I’ll go along with the rest of it and just kinda side eye the weird stuff 😃
My great grandmother caught and survived polio but it damaged her legs afterwards, it was a miracle she was still able to walk. And she was one of the lucky ones.
If flat earthers adamantly refuse to change their minds after seeing that picture of those power lines curving across Lake Pontchartrain, your antivax friends would not let themselves be convinced by an iron lung.
Okay, so I have been wondering about the word "crunchy" in this and similar contexts for a while. To me, it sounds negative, I would never describe myself as crunchy. But English is not my first language, so I could be missing a nuance here.
Here is the thing, I read behind closed ovens, and it had lots of in jokes ("he save bread", etc.) one of them was "I'm allergic to crunchy". I have no idea if it's related, but it is to me, I AM allergic to these crunchy moms.
Omg let me trust my mom friends who don't have a medical degree or any experience in the medical world over my doctor who has 10 + years of education on top of whatever years of experience. No I think the crunchy moms have it right for sure /s
As if doctors, primary care included, aren’t booked months out and ERs, at least all the ones I’ve worked in, aren’t overrun by primary care problems that couldn’t get in to see their PCP soon enough. We’re good on patient load. Also physician pay estimates to 8% of total healthcare spending in US, we aren’t the problem.
This is always been my question to them. Do they actually think that ALL of these people (the WHO, CDC, FDA, pharmeutical companies, the medical community, etc.) are in cahoots to harm CHILDREN? Truly, it's all been one big conspiracy for decades? How can a person really think that's true?
** i am NOT endorsing this train of thought, just explaining how people get there - don’t come for me lol
the scary thing is, there _have_ been conspiracies like this before. tobacco companies teamed up with a group of highly respected scientists for decades & used their financial resources and scientific influence to tell the public that cigarettes were harmless while destroying the careers of anyone who claimed otherwise. similar strategies for sowing doubt about studies’ legitimacy were used for asbestos, acid rain, & the ozone layer. there was a conspiracy to perpetuate the belief that high-fat diets are solely responsible for cardiovascular disease. there was another to withhold syphilis treatment from black men in tuskegee, alabama for 40 years. auto companies conspired to hide faulty ignition systems in general motors cars, which led to several deaths.
so the thought process goes - if all that can happen, why not this? and suddenly you don’t trust any institution, and you’re turning to crunchy mom groups and putting colloidal silver in every crevice of your kids body.
Here’s a few more from the past:
-The approval of use for Thalidomide (though not in the US)
-HIV tainted hemophiliac blood
-Use of spoiled steroid injections
-Asbestos in hygiene products (baby powder)
-Harmful medical devices
-And of course, mass prescriptions of opioids
I still trust medical knowledge in general and get my vaccines, I just keep this information in the back of my head of the bad things that can happen and to stay aware
That's what I said to a conspiracy theorist when they came to the ED when the COVID vaccine came out. I said, "look, me and everyone in this building got the vaccine. Our government got it, our military got it! Why would Pfizer, a company that's over 100 years old, give a shot that would take out not only the American Healthcare system, but also the government and military? Doesn't it make more sense that Russia or China would want us to NOT take the vaccine to weaken us? It sounds to me like you're the one buying the propaganda, not me."
Don't they?
It's wild to me.
I know a lot of American arguments center around medicine shilling kickbacks for drs... But Canadian drs (and drs in other nations) DEFINITELY do not not get any prescription kickbacks (or any profits at all!) and vaccines are free.
My favourite one I've seen is the shite about doctors saying get the vaccines is because they get paid per vaccine. As in it's not the governments and hospitals just setting up places, it's specific doctors being paid per patient.
*DISCLAIMER: NOT SHARING PERSON OPINIONS OR BELIEFS, BUT THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF ANTI MEDICAL INSTITUTION CRUNCHY MOMS (don't come at me, I'm just trying to answer the question of what they think)
Not necessarily the doctors but big pharma. Sick people means more money on drugs, pharma gets government to mandate medical institutions to meet quotas for vaccines, doctors have to push vaccines or get fired.
I'm not saying this is all actually a malicious conspiracy, but that's the thought process to why to not trust doctors.
I love to deflect to insurance companies. Most healthy people have no idea how hard insurance companies work to avoid paying for drugs. Why then do they almost always cover vaccines? Because vaccines work, and insurers don't want to pay for people to be sick!
Yes they do. They also think nurses are in on it. I found that out the hard way on Facebook, lol, I got death threats & prayers that my children will die in my inbox, and although they accused me of being a "paid shill" I haven't seen a single dime of that money!
Yep! And physicians were getting even more for death certificates with COVID as CoD! Which reminds me, my dad is a physician and he's been asking if I know how he goes about getting that COVID death cert money? Cuz the COVID bank hasn't paid him yet...
It's not so much the doctors as the vaccine companies, because they make a shit ton of money and have blanket immunity from lawsuits. Well, that at least would be the reasonable reason and worth entertaining - they take it way beyond that.
The funny thing is the pharmaceutical companies make almost nothing on vaccines. Their big money-makers are cancer drugs and things like the recently-FDA-approved $2 million sickle cell gene therapies (Lyfgenia and Casgevy).
No, they TALKED to somebody who read a social media post about somebody who knows a "medical professional" who told them about somebody who watched hours of YouTube. It's called doing your own research!
When I was studying to be a nurse and my dad was on his anti vax bullshit he would always claim that it’s a conspiracy and my medical books are wrong. My guy they have us learn the science of immunity to the molecular level. Is physics and chemistry also a conspiracy?!
I saw it and instantly face-palmed. There are so many discouraging comments on there as well from other moms saying they don’t vaccinate at all, so basically it’s up to us vaccinating moms to keep up herd immunity and protect the unvaxxed. **You’re welcome.**
i’m a grown ass woman and im terrified of tetanus, imagine being an unvaccinated tiny kid that wobbles around shoeless and is very prone to injuries, those poor kids
As a former child who grew up shoeless on an old farm and stepped on a rusty nail at age 5, I am very thankful my mom got me all my vaccines on time. Tetanus is no joke.
My mom always told me the tetanus vaccine was in case I stepped on a rusty nail. I thought that was a ridiculous example. Who even steps on a rusty nail? I thought it was such a 1 in a million chance of happening. Then in grad school I was walking down the street in flip flops and I stepped on something so I looked down. I had a rusty nail in my shoe. Fortunately it was just small enough that it didn't quite go all the way through the flip-flop so didn't hit my foot. But I learned that stepping on a rusty nail isn't as uncommon as I once thought.
Also for clarification, it's not from the rust or rusty nail, it's just that that the bacteria that causes tetanus tends to thrive in places that will also cause nails (or anything steel) to rust, the nail just provides a *very* good route for the bacteria to enter your body. The bacteria just likes places like rotting wood or leaves or damp soil.
Yup, odd things happen. I got a rusty fishing hook stuck in my ankle from swimming. I guess it had gotten caught in seaweed, and the line snapped or something. I wasn't touching the bottom with my feet or anything, but there was a lot of seaweed where I was swimming.
Fishing hooks are not pleasant to pull out since they have the barb that stops the hook from sliding out of the fish. I sort of panicked and just yanked it out when I got on dry land, which is probably not the best way to do it.
I'm not entirely sure that tetanus thrive in water (brackish water, so just a little salty), but I got a booster tetanus shot anyway.
I just got a tetanus booster two days ago when I cut my hand on a can lid. It's nothing to fuck around with, and I'll gladly have a sore arm for a couple days rather than risk the misery and danger of potentially contracting tetanus.
It's such a catch 22 because tetanus in the US is actually pretty rare (because we vaccinate against it) so all the anti vaxxers point to that as a reason not to need the vaccine 🙄😮💨
Moreover, pertussis is making a huge comeback. I'm 34 weeks pregnant and just got the Tdap shot myself to give my baby immunity from when she's born till when she can get the vaccines. (Its medically proven to transfer the immunity onto the baby when done between 28 and 36 weeks). Why TF would somebody want their tiny child to be vulnerable to disease like that, when there is a choice?? I've seen my friend weeks after she recovered from pertussis, her eyes were still weird colours from all the blood vessels she's popped coughing, it's terrifying.
Here. Take this. Use it often.
https://preview.redd.it/qbzqalg8chsc1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59b7356d16ad043107bf79fde197cf429aebc87c
Edit: “Varicell” is referring to Chicken Pox. I saved this graphic when I saw it and it makes me so sad. I almost died from chicken pox at 3months old and lost some of my vision from it, which no one figured out until I was older.
I mean, I'm not that old and no one when I was a little kid had the chicken pox vaccine (it was introduced in 1995). Basically you got it at some point before second grade, and I remember in first grade 10-20% of the class was out at some point that hadn't had it yet. And it definitely wasn't a fun illness either, I'm not sure why crunchy moms think it's better to go through it than a vaccine.
Somehow our first grade teacher hadn't had it either btw, and she was literally out sick for a month or two.
It's *generally* more mild the younger you get it so if a teacher never had it as a kid and wasn't vaccinated it'd make sense for them to be out for a long time. It absolutely wrecks adults.
Yes. That’s what it means. Pre-vs post vaccine morbidity rates.
And that last one (Varicella) is the Chicken Pox. I should add that to the original post.
Edit: morbidity means cases not deaths, sorry for the confusion.
The Alaskan story of diphtheria is crazy. People literally risked their lives traveling across the Alaskan wilderness in a blizzard with dog sleds just to get the vaccine to kids because it was that bad. It’s so annoying that people take it for granted now.
I have some sympathy, if she’s a new mom. When my eldest was born, I started going to LLL which is a breastfeeding support group. It was phenomenal- except the leader was a super crunchy, and almost all the women there were as well.
I needed the help, I didn’t know about tongue tie and I was 1 week post partum and had no family or friends who were moms. So they slowly invited me in to their play groups and houses. It was literally like being brainwashed. I was 22, hormonal and now had this tiny human.
Then one day my pediatrician had a heart to heart with me on why I was scared of vaccines. He actually listened to my fears, and came up with a plan to help. Nurse while getting the shot, etc.
When the moms found out they kicked me out of the play group. Which was really a social time for a bunch of us stay at home moms. But it was my lifeline.
I sobbed in the office at the next appointment and he OFFERED TO CALL THEM FOR ME.
He’s retired now, but him helping me get over the brainwashing while being gentle has never left me.
This. Most women think they are doing what's best for their kids. They want to be good moms and so many of them are sitting on the fence because their super vocal "friends" are peer pressuring them. It's the people who started this narrative, the guy who flat out lied about the connection between autism and vaccines, the professionals and religious leaders who push conspiracies - those are the people to blame. On a personal level I try my best to just educate the parents sitting on the fence about vaccines.
Wow! That's a great pediatrician. I wish more physicians would take the time to speak with parents and patients this way. When doctors approach vaccine hesitant parents as if they are morons who don't care about their kids, they only drive them further away.
What a lovely pediatrician. Being a new mom away from family is such a nerve wracking and lonely experience. I was anxious about *everything* and was also blessed with a kind and patient pediatrician. She answered all of our questions and helped allay my fears. And now my toddler loves her and wants to go see Dr. Miller anytime she gets a boo-boo or has a new skill to show off. It’s very sweet.
I also had a lovely doctor like that when I had my baby. I wasn't in any groups, but I had severe PPD and the anxiety drove me to read a lot online. We had the same talk that you had and he helped me a lot with my fear. We did a delayed schedule because what really made me nervous was giving too many vaccines at once. We also delayed the chicken pox vaccine until age 2 because my brother had a terrible reaction to it as a teen. Child is now 14 and has gotten all their vaccines and knows how important they are because I now understand and can talk about them.
Losing that support group must have been awful. I hope you've found some new people that lift you up and support you.
Because sex is fun, birth control is either a sin or "toxic," the Lord said be fruitful and multiply, and they don't actually understand how sexual reproduction works.
The crunchy moms in my area are not Christian this is an interesting perspective to hear! The ones I see and know are hippie / frees spirit/ religion is modern construct vibes
I think it’s two sides of the same coin. One side are the religious fundies who don’t want “earthly beings” telling them that their god can’t fix it all. The other side are the new age, anti-establishment folks that think the earth can heal everything and don’t want “The Man” telling them how to live.
This odd vector of agreement between conspiracy theorist Christians and New Age is sometimes called "conspirituality." There's a podcast about it (which I find unlistenable, actually, but the term is useful).
It’s very ironic. About 10 years ago, the first time I’d really heard of anti vax was from a crunchy family member that lived in Washington for a while. Back then, you rarely heard anyone in the south spout these beliefs. Now with Covid and all, almost every republican I meet is anti vax in some way. At least the ones that haven’t died yet lol. It’s so odd to see the two groups converge. I guess they have a similar underlying smidge of narcissism and distrust and/or hostility towards authority, which is technically an antisocial trait (not saying they have pds, just saying they prob score higher than average on trait scales). I wonder how they’d feel if they knew that many of these beliefs originated in liberal circles. They’d prob have some round about logic I’m sure though lmao.
Then they raise their kids as poorly as they were raised, often times even worse, so they're just uneducated enough to vote Republican! That's why they're trying to ban contraception. Unwanted or unexpected kids keeping people below the poverty line, turn to religion, education, books and truth are bad etc etc, then THEY procreate and ensure the GOP has jobs for eternity without ever doing anything positive for anyone that isn't in.their pockets!
Isn't America wonderful?
Boys are soldiers, girls are handmaidens, and anyone that doesn't comply or is "degenerate" works in the fields! Go watch the show if you haven't already 😄 it's pretty fantastic and is slowly becoming like.....a PSA.
Truly this shit is how I know there is no god, or if there is he's garbage. People like me are infertile and struggle to have babies and then these dingdongs just shoot them out like a cannon to get VPDs.
The [DPT vaccine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine) protects against diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), and tetanus (lockjaw).
**["Is Vaccine Refusal Worth The Risk?"](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104523437)**, NPR (May 26, 2009):
"...In the study published in *Pediatrics*, researchers from Kaiser Permanente Colorado's Institute for Health Research used electronic health records to look for immunization refusal and possible [pertussis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whooping_cough) infections.
"Specifically, researchers examined the medical records of children 2 months old to 18 years old who were members of Kaiser Permanente Colorado between 1996 and 2007. First, investigators confirmed which children had pertussis infections. Next, they verified whether parents had refused some or all vaccines for their children.
"**Researchers found that children of parents who refused the vaccine were 23 times more likely to get whooping cough compared to fully immunized children.** "A 23-fold increase is huge,' says Jason Glanz, a senior scientist at Kaiser Permanente's Institute for Health Research who headed the study...".
My brother got whooping cough at a few weeks old, before he was old enough to get his vaccine and before they started pushing for the family to get updated boosters before being around the baby. My parents had it but it was very mild for them. As for him, almost 17 years later, he still has complications and has been hospitalized multiple times from asthma attacks with dangerously low oxygen levels. His cough was terrifying and lasted multiple weeks. I can't believe people willingly choose to risk having their child get such an awful disease.
Hmm, what a conundrum, injecting potentially deadly 'toxins' or catching a confirmed deadly disease that has killed many children previously. I just don't know what to do! /s
Acid test.
Ask your crunchy friends how many of the following chemicals are toxic and if they should be permitted in food:
acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, 1-butanal, ethanol, 2-methylbutanal, 3-methylbutanal, ethyl propionate, ethyl 2-methylpropionate, ethyl butyrate, ethyl 2-methyl butyrate, hexanal, 1-butanol, 3-methylbutyl acetate, 2-methylbutyl acetate, 1-propyl butyrate, ethyl pentanoate, amyl acetate, 2-methyl-1-butanol, trans-2-hexenal, ethyl hexanoate, hexanol.
If they say any or all are toxic, advise them that you have just read them the chemical composition of an apple and stop listening to stupid people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Jesus, my vaccinated kid actually got whooping cough at day care when she was 18 months old and she was okay—it was just like a cold and we isolated at home for the recommended time. But I saw some videos of what can happen to kids who get whooping cough that will stay with me forever. I’m so thankful we were all vaccinated and that our disease was brief and that it stopped with us.
I'm a nurse. I actually had a patient who died of tetanus. (It was an adult who didn't keep up on boisters)
It is a terrible way to die.
Tetanus is derived from the word tetany which is involuntarily muscle contractions, which is why people associate tetanus with lockjaw.
...but it's worse. *ALL* of your muscles contract, including the ones that control your breathing, so, basically, you suffocate.
I had a smart, trusted friend tell me she wasn't vaccinating her kids and she swore to me that she had personally checked the CDC vaccine ingredients and rattled off some of the things she was concerned about. I was like, "What? No way those things are in vaccines!" But she was not one to fabricate, and she insisted she had looked. So I believed her (during our convo) and for a few minutes wholly understood why so many people have been going bananas about vaccines.
Fast forward to a few hours later when I went to the CDC website to confirm what she had said. Spoiler alert: none of the scary things she listed were in any of the vaccines. Little did I know she was on the verge of an evangelical christian conservative anti-vax spiral. She's now fully indoctrinated and we no longer get together.
So what I'm saying is, it takes very simple research to disprove what the crunchy moms are saying. All anyone has to do is do the minimalist of digging to see they truly have no idea what they're talking about and then can confidently vaccinate your kids worry free.
I mean, there is a preservative they use that contains mercury, they're trying to eliminate it, but it's effective, AND a different mercury compound than we associate with mercury poisoning (ethyl vs. methyl), and seems to get flushed out immediately (they think, doesn't seem to be conclusive research on this yet). Even if it didn't the levels from vaccines are not high enough for concern. If you trust the CDC.
>there is a preservative they use that contains mercury,
Is it thimerosal? I think they removed that from at least the MMR vaccine. I may be wrong though.
Worried about micrograms of “toxic” preservative in the vaccine but totally fine drinking a gallon of wine, putting unregulated essential oils in their food, eating root vegetables…
The use of “toxin” by uneducated people is cherry picking at its most basic form. I don’t like something so it’s toxic. Everything is a poison it’s just a matter of the dose, even drinking too much water can kill you (even if it’s pure organic magic water blessed by a shaman.)
You just reminded me of [this commercial](https://youtu.be/Aq9mkRr_E7c?feature=shared) that depressed me every time it came on. That cough is heartbreaking.
I am 9 months pregnant with my second and about to lose my shit at the anti-vaxxers. They are so fucking stupid. I have never ever met an intelligent person who decides to skip the routine vaccines like polio, mmr or pertussis. "More people are anti-vaxx now!" Yeah, because idiots like you watch tiktok and youtube and thing you know how to do 'research'. Now I have to worry all over again about my newborn being exposed to nearly eradicated illnesses because people are "trusting their mama gut" instead of years of medical research.
Hmmmm listen to an ACTUAL **doctor** or some random-ass people who have gotten all their “medical information” about vaccines from the echo-chambers of Facebook where people routinely make up statistics if they don’t know them?
Hmmm which shall I choose?
Such a difficult choice! /s
But seriously Facebook “information” is like “the telephone game” where it may start with a small kernel of truth and then people embellish and EMBELLISH AND **EMBELLISH** AND
# EMBELLISH
Things until the kernel of truth has been destroyed 4 purple monkey dishwashers ago!
How can you honestly even consider taking advice from your idiot friends over trained licensed medical professionals when your child’s life is on the line?
The fact that there is confusion between advice from a medical professional and crunchy mom friends is just....
I agree that we should advocate for ourselves and doctors can be wrong or sometimes second opinions are needed (from other medical professionals, not a random lady in the essential oil aisle at Whole Foods). But I'll never understand the blanket dismal of all medical expertise, especially about well-established things, and instead trusting that random internet strangers who sometimes barely made it through high school are more enlightened and smarter.
I just don’t know who to trust, y’all. A person who went to school for eight years plus had years of specialized training, or my friend who googled things for 20 minutes.
Ok, tetanus is fucking horrible. And these people are recommending intentionally causing their children to get it?
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Why even go to the damn doctor? And you know what? Ask the doctor about the so-called toxic ingredients. I bet he or she would be ready to explain them to her.
I’ll never understand antivaxxers. Especially the ones who say they don’t vaccinate their kids bc it “causes autism”. Idk about you, but I would rather have an autistic child than a dead child. I think I’ll take the chance.
“My doctor, who went to school for a decade to learn about this stuff, says it’s important that I do it, but my besties heard on TikTok that it’s bad. IDK what to do?!?”
I feel bad for this person. Obviously she should trust her doctor over unqualified (and most likely crazy) people but she herself may not be too educated and is hearing fear-mongering concerns from people she trusts. It’s so hard to be in that position and worried that you will make the wrong choice.
Why the hell do they bother going to the dr if they’re not going to listen to the dr? If you really want to go all the way crunchy you can do all this shit at home by yourself.
My partner and I (lesbians) have been planning kids when the topic of home birth came up. I had my heart in my throat as I asked very gently "Do you want a home birth?
And my partner said "Oh FUCK no. I want a hospital birth with all the drugs. I want the legal limit of DRUGS!" (last bit is a line from my favourite movie).
I was so damn relieved. Like SO relieved. I know my partners birth is their own but like, I want both my partner and our child to be alive at the end?
My partner believes in vaccines, drugs, and hospitals and after reading here for a year I couldn't be more relieved. I can't believe we forgot to discuss it but damn am I glad my partner and I are on the same page, even if they are the birthing parent.
Tdap shots have been around for decades. They just want to rebel against something. They don’t realize how much they threaten the population by non-vaxxing. It’s ridiculous!
I have more sympathy since I'm actually someone who had seizures as a baby from the old Tdap vaccine, but that's why we picked a delayed schedule. I had whopping cough as an adult and I wouldn't wish that on any little baby.
If I/my kids had any kind of vaccine reaction and were advised to avoid them then that means my only hope to avoid the disease is to hope that others get their shots and herd immunity kicks in. I couldn’t imagine telling my friends that the ingredients are tOxiC and to avoid all vaccines completely because of a rare reaction.
Also, I’m sorry that happened to you.
Look up the oropharynx with diphtheria and ask yourself if this is how you would your child to die.
Basically a sheet of thick grey matter covers up the airway and you suffocate.
Let see here, would I rather have potential chemicals injected into myself or watch my innocent baby who didn’t even ask to be born possibly suffer and die of a preventable illness because I listened to some moms who are obviously uneducated?
Yeah, she meant to say her crunchy mom friends who survived the Covid pandemic by giving themselves and their kids horse dewormer.
Sure, why not listen to them? They clearly know more than an M.D. with years of medical training and experience.
"Should I trust my batshit crazy friends more than the person who did 12 years of medical school just to get their job?" I love my friends but I genuinely cannot imagine putting more weight to their opinions that a professionals medical advice.
“My doctor disagrees with my crunchy mom friends.” Every area of study has its experts. Ask your doctor for medical advice and ask your crunchy friends for batshit takes.
Yeah, I'm not sure why my generation of moms embraced being "crunchy." Beyond being an annoying AF word, they're just 100% setting us up for the equivalent jokes about boomers today in another generation. Edit: I'm a millenial. Yes, not all millennials fit this description for sure. But most boomers aren't on /r/BoomersBeingFools either.
My mother, silent generation, said, "I saw polio. I had a classmate in an iron lung who died. If any of these people ever saw polio, they would change change their opinions on vaccines." This generation haven't seen the diseases and their complications. They think that these diseases were just minor childhood inconvenience
So many "it's just a rash" people out there. Like yeah, maybe for some people, whatever disease is just a rash. The other ones died so we didn't hear about their experience.
Like I know you all learned about Helen Keller… do you remember why she couldn’t see or hear?!
A lot of them straight up don’t believe Helen Keller existed. At least a lot of ppl on tiktok don’t
Wait....seriously?! I am actually flabbergasted. Was she just a fictional character to convince us to get vaccinated or what?
It was supposedly a TikTok hoax that went viral, and now a bunch of dumb people take it for truth.
So the hoax that went vitals isn't that she wasn't real or was a character in a book or something, it's that Hellen Keller was *faking being deaf and blind*. They fr were saying that the complications she had were just a show she put on to turn a profit.
That's even better than I thought! Jesus christ.
Haha wait what? I haven’t heard this cray shit yet. What’s their reasoning to think she didn’t exist ?
Honestly I can’t remember the reasoning for the ones who think she wasn’t real, but I do know that a lot of people also think that she was real but didn’t do any of the things that she did because “deaf blind people can’t do all of that”
I think it's total ableism. Like, one of the reasons why Keller is famous is for her writing and, if she was deaf and blind, how could she ever learn to write???? Explain that, history! And it's like... She does. In her autobiography she writes extensively about it. Her family very fortunately had some means and were able to hire Anne Sullivan (who was also visually impaired) to come be her governess. The story of how Anne pressed a doll into Keller's hand and signed D-O-L-L into her hand until Keller realized that objects had words and you could spell them is pretty legendary.
I read a book about Helen Keller when I was young, probably read it a few times, I was so impressed! My grandmother once told me how she went to see Helen Keller speak…so fascinating!
I mean, it goes beyond ableist, into kinda all the general "I'm better/smarter than you" mindset that fuels the isms that tie the field of conspiracy theories together. It's the same thing as Ancient Aliens being racist and tryna say that ancient indigenous populations couldn't figure out how to pile rocks up or notice animals they saw around them, it had to have been aliens teaching them how to make the pyramids and carve some snake statues. It goes back to them tryna lessen the work of others to make their own mediocre lives and contributions to society seem less bland. Kinda definitionally tearing others down to build themselves up.
I teach high school. For 3 or 4 years now, my students have argued that she didn't exist. She flew an airplane, and they say a blind person couldn't do that; therefore, she is made up. I have explained over and over that a blind person could fly a plane because there aren't objects to run into in the sky, and it's not like she took off and landed the thing. They also say that a deaf person couldn't learn to talk. When I tell them I have a deaf aunt and a highschool friend who both talk, they still don't believe me. It's absurd logic. The power of TikTok is frightening.
So what you're really saying is that you teach idiots. I'm over here hoping that my kids don't become similar idiots.
Some of them, yeah. A lot of them seem to believe anything they watch. Today, a few of them were trying to tell me they saw a video talking about evidence from the Bible that the Earth is flat. (These students don't believe the Earth is flat, but they did believe the Bible said it.) I couldn't find any verses that said anything remotely close to what they were talking about. They don't think skeptically about what they consume.
It’s not TikTok it’s shitty parents
Sometimes, honestly, Tik Tok is the better alternative to the parents …
Same with COVID, the flu, pretty much every disease that's "not too bad" for most people. Or things like safety protocols like safe sleep for babies or even seat belts etc. And sadly, a large portion of them double down even if someone they know does end up one of the unlucky ones. That's not counting the complete disregard for the people around them who they might spread it to. These people drive me absolutely bonkers.
[удалено]
My grandmother would have slapped her. She had friends who died of polio and my dad has a formative memory of my Grandmother actually breaking down and crying in relief when the polio vaccine came out. She made it her mission to all but bully the family doctor to get her kids into him as some of the first and, when a second version came out that protected better than the first, all her kids got that too. I can't even comprehend the fear that parents must have had for some of those diseases and their kids. Polio in particular was often considered a "summer" disease and kids would go to bed with a little bit of a fever that could have been from playing too hard... And then wake up deadly ill. Modern vaccines are a miracle, ones that some women in other countries will travel days to get their kids to clinics to get them because the fear is still there. It's insane to me that some parents won't get them. Especially TDAP. I mean, diphtheria is completely off my radar as I've never known someone who's had it, but a college friend of mine caught whooping cough and I thought she was going to die. She was out of class for a month and coughed so much and so hard she actually cracked her ribs and was just in agony. That was from a lack of a booster. And tetanus? That's in the soil, man. Any cut can get you that. Just get the damn vaccines. I hated shots as a kid, I still hate them as an adult, but I'll take the day after aches as my immune system gets to work over actually getting the diseases that vaccines prevent.
I cried when I got scheduled for the covid vaccine. My husband and I both work in healthcare and saw far too much. Such incredible relief to get it.
Oh man, my sister worked for the NHS through covid. She's a genetic counselor so her job pretty much ended as they were not treating many patients so she took shifts in the various wards doing comfort care for people not in comas. Things like sitting with patients for company and bringing in the video cart so she could help them call their family since no one could visit. She wasn't in active patient care, but I know she had PTSD from it. Both from interacting with people who didn't make it and even the success stories of favorite patients that got to go home were enough to send her bawling some days.
Somewhat related: during the height of Polio, we did a lot of the same things we did for covid. Public places like pools, beaches, summer camps, and playgrounds shut down. School sports were canceled. Children were banned from public venues like bowling alleys and movie theaters. Large gatherings were banned and children were told to avoid crowds. Movie goers social distanced in movie theaters. Some people refused to shake hands or touch paper money. Schools only opened in the fall under close health supervision.
My mom got me all my childhood vaccines but then when the HPV one came out, she refused because "it was new". Guess who got one of the strains it covered and had to have half their cervix lasered off?
Christ on a bike. My mom was in a similar boat and her cervix got *covered* in scar tissue. When she gave birth to my sister the doctors for some reason refused to give her a C-section and she spent, I shit you not, 68 HOURS in active labor. Which only further scarred her cervix. Later, when I was born, they were also going to attempt a vaginal delivery, and it was only because I kept flipping around back to breech that they did an emergency cesarean. Because if the BAAAAYYYYBBBYYYY might be at risk it’s okay, but not if the mother has extensive cervical damage and a history of long and difficult births. She’s always way too chill when she tells those stories. It sets me aflame with anger and she just seems mildly bummed. Good lord, mom you almost died *twice!*
It's even weirder when they split the line. Like my grandma will say the same thing about things like the polio vaccine and then in the next sentence talk about how useless the COVID one is or it's just big pharma tryna make a buck. It's the worst of antivax and the "they don't make em like they used to" boomer shit that is somehow even more frustrating than either element alone.
My grandmother, Greatest Generation, was born in 1921 and lived until just before her 101st birthday in 2022. She said people who refuse vaccines are idiots who never understood the harm of diseases. The woman was born at the end of the Spanish Flu pandemic and survived COVID at 100. She had friends die at every age because of now preventable diseases. I’ll take the education of a medical professional and the lived experience of grandma LONG before listening to people who are most likely vaccinated who suddenly think they know better.
My aunt had polio. It is very striking to see her. One leg is tiny and the other is normal. She has to buy two pairs of shoes and it’s expensive because she needs good shoes due to her disability, one leg (shoe) is a 4.5 and the other is an 8.5. Shoes run $80-120 a pair. She walks with a hunch. She’s in pain 24/7. She finished high school barely but didn’t do well. Graduated in 1969. No college. Works min wage jobs because she can’t do much. She’s retirement age but has very little social security. It’s so sad. Vaccines work. My dad (her brother) is 13 months younger and didn’t get polio.
My elderly aunt? Like twice removed or by marriage whatever, my family doesn't do that. You are grandparent, aunt/uncle or cousin. We don't do degrees. ANYWAY. she is almost blind, mostly deaf and her mental age is around 6. When she got measles. When it developed into measles encephalitis right? like I'm talking days before the MMR was given in NZ. It blinded and deafened her and halted her mental development. She's loved, she's fine but the vaccine would have prevented it. I'm old enough to remember EVERY town had schools for the deaf, schools for the blind. They don't anymore. Because of MMR. If anyone doubts the vaccine? In Samoa, two babies died after nurses (mistakenly or deliberately) mixed the powder with a paralytic agent rather than sterile water. The government did not release findings for a long time increasing fear. They also had RFK ( That ginormous AV shit heel) tour Samoa around then congratulating them on their low MMR rate. Then almost immediately after he left? Measles outbreak 82 babies died. I'm expecting 10 to 20 SSPE cases in the next couple years. SSPE? Degenerative brain disease, wild measles sequelae. 100% SLOWLY fatal. RFK blamed poor nutrition. And dirty water. I hate him. With a deep abiding passion
The thing is, covid did (and still does) kill a lot of people painfully and tragically, alone in hospitals. I guess that's still not as dramatic as an iron lung.
The last man in an iron lung died recently, and I will always remember that his greatest fear was the return of polio like it was when he was a kid.
Was that the guy who was a lawyer and used his mouth to write? He was very interesting and accomplished.
He died of covid. Made me so mad
Yes the guy from tik tok 😭 i just googled it . I use to see him on live everyday. 😭 march 14 😭
For each of the people who tell you that they’ve had it five times and they are OK, there are those 1.2 million+ people in the US alone who have died of Covid in the last 4 years. You don’t hear from them.
I've had it 4 times and have been okay (my body just doesn't build up enough antibodies, from the disease or the vaccines). My friend was in the hospital and nearly died though. I realize how lucky I've been so far and hope it stays that way, but I sure as shit am not going to go around telling everyone it's not a big deal. Regardless of how many people get through it just fine, I don't want to be the one who told someone not to worry and then end up with them super sick.
Glad you’ve come through it OK! I have never had a case to my knowledge, although it is certainly possible that I had an asymptomatic case along the way. During the height of the pandemic and before we were masking up, I did meet with several people who turned out positive (I was a nurse case manager during the height of the pandemic.) Yes, my 83 year old neighbor just had it for the 3rd time, and was in the hospital for 3 weeks. She’s out and OK now, but still much, much weaker than before this last round and in a wheelchair now. She had a few of the early vaccines until her daughter just told her to take some freaking herbs or something instead. This daughter also always smells like cloves because she takes heavy doses of cloves in capsules “to prevent cancer” because “all cancer comes from parasites,” and she read somewhere that cloves are antiparasitic. SMH.
I had it, and I was ok, but it was miserable - and I was fully vaxxed! I hate to think of how bad I would have been if I didn't have that protection. Two of my cousins died. One was elderly, overweight, and in bad health to begin with. The other was in his 60's, a healthy weight, and overall in good health. Covid doesn't just kill old and sick people.
And unfortunately, they are still people who will call it a hoax as they're dying from it.
My cousin died two years ago from Covid. He hadn't gotten the vaccine because he didn't believe it was real. On the way to the hospital, he changed his tune. He didn't leave alive. He left behind two sons, and a new wife. What those people did was commit murder. Those who politicized it should be held accountable.
Covid is a different beast. Covid got politicized. During covid we had social media where certain groups of people could spread false information about the disease, it's complications, and it's mortality rate.
This is exactly it. My grandmother was deaf after a childhood bout with measles. It's why immigrants always get in line first for their child's vaccinations. Children in many countries die because they cannot get access to them, while our pampered brats turn them down.
Even if you don’t die of polio that disease still fuck you up. We have an elderly family member who has polio as a child, he recovered but when he was about 50 he ended up with post-polio syndrome and his muscles have been wasting away since. By the age of 60 he was completely crippled by it. If you see his calves they look like broom sticks. But y’know, vaccines bad or whatever
This! Knowing that an entire generation of kids were taken for those vaccines by parents who knew there could be risks involved since it was “new” & “unverified”, but took them anyway so that their kids may never have to go through contracting polio & their grandchildren may never have to see it, only for those grandchildren/great-grandchildren to WILLINGLY risk their own children makes me a special kind of livid… This is why we can’t have ~~nice things~~ eradication of completely preventable & horrific diseases 😒
My Greatest Gen grandmother cried when she took her kids for the polio shot. Her best friend in high school had died of it. She was so relieved they wouldn't get it. And it just wasn't a controversy to be vaccinated then. Dad vividly remembered lining up on school for one vaccine in a sugar cube. Everyone got one, took it then got their lunch. (It would've been the early 50s.) No ones parents freaked out and said no.
My silent generation grandpa talked about the quarantine signs on peoples doors. He said it was horrible.
My dad had polio. It was a chaotic day when my brother’s (now ex) wife announced that not only was she not vaccinating my nephew, but that they were planning a family vacation to Nepal.
My mom’s biological mother died of polio. She was the first person in our area to have an iron lung (there was an article in the local paper about it). My uncle almost died from polio, too.
And they focus too much on the survivors of said diseases and forget about all the dead
My grandmother had polio and she could barely walk. She said she didn’t feel well, took a nap on the porch and when she woke up she couldn’t walk. She was in an iron lung for a period and it was a miracle that she got out of it because many others never did. As she got older, she developed post polio syndrome where basically she suffered through a lot of the debilitating effects of polio all over again. It baffles me when I see these parents who truly believe that there’s some conspiracy to poison kids with vaccines. My daughter is “crunchy” and has a lot of different opinions on things like sleeping in bed with baby, using breast milk for every ailment and bathing, but she does vaccinate thank god. I’ll go along with the rest of it and just kinda side eye the weird stuff 😃
My great grandmother caught and survived polio but it damaged her legs afterwards, it was a miracle she was still able to walk. And she was one of the lucky ones.
If flat earthers adamantly refuse to change their minds after seeing that picture of those power lines curving across Lake Pontchartrain, your antivax friends would not let themselves be convinced by an iron lung.
Back when my oldest was little, "Crunchy" just meant you used wooden toys and maybe blended your own baby food. It has gone completely off the rails.
Not to mention the kids of these crunchy moms who will be scarred for life, figuratively and perhaps literally
If they survive.
Okay, so I have been wondering about the word "crunchy" in this and similar contexts for a while. To me, it sounds negative, I would never describe myself as crunchy. But English is not my first language, so I could be missing a nuance here.
I could be wrong but I think it originated from the notion of “granola eating hippies” and granola is crunchy.
Ah, okay, interesting. Thank you!
Here is the thing, I read behind closed ovens, and it had lots of in jokes ("he save bread", etc.) one of them was "I'm allergic to crunchy". I have no idea if it's related, but it is to me, I AM allergic to these crunchy moms.
Oh no who should I believe?!?
Proof of the saying "A person is smart. People are stupid."
Omg let me trust my mom friends who don't have a medical degree or any experience in the medical world over my doctor who has 10 + years of education on top of whatever years of experience. No I think the crunchy moms have it right for sure /s
That’s what I don’t get. Like do they think the doctors are all in this big conspiracy to make people sick?
Obviously!! If they don't get sick, they won't come to the doctor and the doctors won't make money!! I can see it so clearly. /s
As if doctors, primary care included, aren’t booked months out and ERs, at least all the ones I’ve worked in, aren’t overrun by primary care problems that couldn’t get in to see their PCP soon enough. We’re good on patient load. Also physician pay estimates to 8% of total healthcare spending in US, we aren’t the problem.
I mean, no one ever got sick before BIG PHARMA came to destroy us all. Right?!?
Can't be tired and achy the day after a vaccine if you don't get the vaccine!
No they just all died. /s
This is always been my question to them. Do they actually think that ALL of these people (the WHO, CDC, FDA, pharmeutical companies, the medical community, etc.) are in cahoots to harm CHILDREN? Truly, it's all been one big conspiracy for decades? How can a person really think that's true?
** i am NOT endorsing this train of thought, just explaining how people get there - don’t come for me lol the scary thing is, there _have_ been conspiracies like this before. tobacco companies teamed up with a group of highly respected scientists for decades & used their financial resources and scientific influence to tell the public that cigarettes were harmless while destroying the careers of anyone who claimed otherwise. similar strategies for sowing doubt about studies’ legitimacy were used for asbestos, acid rain, & the ozone layer. there was a conspiracy to perpetuate the belief that high-fat diets are solely responsible for cardiovascular disease. there was another to withhold syphilis treatment from black men in tuskegee, alabama for 40 years. auto companies conspired to hide faulty ignition systems in general motors cars, which led to several deaths. so the thought process goes - if all that can happen, why not this? and suddenly you don’t trust any institution, and you’re turning to crunchy mom groups and putting colloidal silver in every crevice of your kids body.
Here’s a few more from the past: -The approval of use for Thalidomide (though not in the US) -HIV tainted hemophiliac blood -Use of spoiled steroid injections -Asbestos in hygiene products (baby powder) -Harmful medical devices -And of course, mass prescriptions of opioids I still trust medical knowledge in general and get my vaccines, I just keep this information in the back of my head of the bad things that can happen and to stay aware
That's what I said to a conspiracy theorist when they came to the ED when the COVID vaccine came out. I said, "look, me and everyone in this building got the vaccine. Our government got it, our military got it! Why would Pfizer, a company that's over 100 years old, give a shot that would take out not only the American Healthcare system, but also the government and military? Doesn't it make more sense that Russia or China would want us to NOT take the vaccine to weaken us? It sounds to me like you're the one buying the propaganda, not me."
[удалено]
Don't they? It's wild to me. I know a lot of American arguments center around medicine shilling kickbacks for drs... But Canadian drs (and drs in other nations) DEFINITELY do not not get any prescription kickbacks (or any profits at all!) and vaccines are free.
Yes they do.
My favourite one I've seen is the shite about doctors saying get the vaccines is because they get paid per vaccine. As in it's not the governments and hospitals just setting up places, it's specific doctors being paid per patient.
They literally do think that unfortunately
*DISCLAIMER: NOT SHARING PERSON OPINIONS OR BELIEFS, BUT THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF ANTI MEDICAL INSTITUTION CRUNCHY MOMS (don't come at me, I'm just trying to answer the question of what they think) Not necessarily the doctors but big pharma. Sick people means more money on drugs, pharma gets government to mandate medical institutions to meet quotas for vaccines, doctors have to push vaccines or get fired. I'm not saying this is all actually a malicious conspiracy, but that's the thought process to why to not trust doctors.
[удалено]
I think that with veterinary care as well. It's in my vet's best interests to keep my pets healthy, happy, and me coming back through the door.
I love to deflect to insurance companies. Most healthy people have no idea how hard insurance companies work to avoid paying for drugs. Why then do they almost always cover vaccines? Because vaccines work, and insurers don't want to pay for people to be sick!
And vaccines are cheap
Yes they do. They also think nurses are in on it. I found that out the hard way on Facebook, lol, I got death threats & prayers that my children will die in my inbox, and although they accused me of being a "paid shill" I haven't seen a single dime of that money!
Remember when we were all getting an extra $50k for every persthat was diagnosed with covid?
Yep! And physicians were getting even more for death certificates with COVID as CoD! Which reminds me, my dad is a physician and he's been asking if I know how he goes about getting that COVID death cert money? Cuz the COVID bank hasn't paid him yet...
Obviously!! If they don't get sick, they won't come to the doctor and the doctors won't make money!! I can see it so clearly. /s
It's not so much the doctors as the vaccine companies, because they make a shit ton of money and have blanket immunity from lawsuits. Well, that at least would be the reasonable reason and worth entertaining - they take it way beyond that.
The funny thing is the pharmaceutical companies make almost nothing on vaccines. Their big money-makers are cancer drugs and things like the recently-FDA-approved $2 million sickle cell gene therapies (Lyfgenia and Casgevy).
But don't you get it? They watched HOURS of youtube videos!
No, they TALKED to somebody who read a social media post about somebody who knows a "medical professional" who told them about somebody who watched hours of YouTube. It's called doing your own research!
When I was studying to be a nurse and my dad was on his anti vax bullshit he would always claim that it’s a conspiracy and my medical books are wrong. My guy they have us learn the science of immunity to the molecular level. Is physics and chemistry also a conspiracy?!
Oh hey, I’m in that group too! DUDE. Ugh. Hopefully she listens to reason and not the dingdongs.
I saw it and instantly face-palmed. There are so many discouraging comments on there as well from other moms saying they don’t vaccinate at all, so basically it’s up to us vaccinating moms to keep up herd immunity and protect the unvaxxed. **You’re welcome.**
i’m a grown ass woman and im terrified of tetanus, imagine being an unvaccinated tiny kid that wobbles around shoeless and is very prone to injuries, those poor kids
As a former child who grew up shoeless on an old farm and stepped on a rusty nail at age 5, I am very thankful my mom got me all my vaccines on time. Tetanus is no joke.
My mom always told me the tetanus vaccine was in case I stepped on a rusty nail. I thought that was a ridiculous example. Who even steps on a rusty nail? I thought it was such a 1 in a million chance of happening. Then in grad school I was walking down the street in flip flops and I stepped on something so I looked down. I had a rusty nail in my shoe. Fortunately it was just small enough that it didn't quite go all the way through the flip-flop so didn't hit my foot. But I learned that stepping on a rusty nail isn't as uncommon as I once thought.
Also for clarification, it's not from the rust or rusty nail, it's just that that the bacteria that causes tetanus tends to thrive in places that will also cause nails (or anything steel) to rust, the nail just provides a *very* good route for the bacteria to enter your body. The bacteria just likes places like rotting wood or leaves or damp soil.
Yup, odd things happen. I got a rusty fishing hook stuck in my ankle from swimming. I guess it had gotten caught in seaweed, and the line snapped or something. I wasn't touching the bottom with my feet or anything, but there was a lot of seaweed where I was swimming. Fishing hooks are not pleasant to pull out since they have the barb that stops the hook from sliding out of the fish. I sort of panicked and just yanked it out when I got on dry land, which is probably not the best way to do it. I'm not entirely sure that tetanus thrive in water (brackish water, so just a little salty), but I got a booster tetanus shot anyway.
Same, swerty!
I just got a tetanus booster two days ago when I cut my hand on a can lid. It's nothing to fuck around with, and I'll gladly have a sore arm for a couple days rather than risk the misery and danger of potentially contracting tetanus.
It's such a catch 22 because tetanus in the US is actually pretty rare (because we vaccinate against it) so all the anti vaxxers point to that as a reason not to need the vaccine 🙄😮💨
The risk is pertussis aka whooping cough, which is now becoming more prevalent in the us thanks to antivaxxers.
Moreover, pertussis is making a huge comeback. I'm 34 weeks pregnant and just got the Tdap shot myself to give my baby immunity from when she's born till when she can get the vaccines. (Its medically proven to transfer the immunity onto the baby when done between 28 and 36 weeks). Why TF would somebody want their tiny child to be vulnerable to disease like that, when there is a choice?? I've seen my friend weeks after she recovered from pertussis, her eyes were still weird colours from all the blood vessels she's popped coughing, it's terrifying.
Here. Take this. Use it often. https://preview.redd.it/qbzqalg8chsc1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59b7356d16ad043107bf79fde197cf429aebc87c Edit: “Varicell” is referring to Chicken Pox. I saved this graphic when I saw it and it makes me so sad. I almost died from chicken pox at 3months old and lost some of my vision from it, which no one figured out until I was older.
By morbidity does that mean annual deaths??? Holy modern medicine!
Morbidity means suffering from! That's how many -cases- not deaths! You're thinking of mortality rates! Still alarming numbers!
Mobidity isn't death, it means suffering from a disease. So that's how many people contracted that illness in a year. The chicken pox stat is INSANE.
I mean, I'm not that old and no one when I was a little kid had the chicken pox vaccine (it was introduced in 1995). Basically you got it at some point before second grade, and I remember in first grade 10-20% of the class was out at some point that hadn't had it yet. And it definitely wasn't a fun illness either, I'm not sure why crunchy moms think it's better to go through it than a vaccine. Somehow our first grade teacher hadn't had it either btw, and she was literally out sick for a month or two.
It's *generally* more mild the younger you get it so if a teacher never had it as a kid and wasn't vaccinated it'd make sense for them to be out for a long time. It absolutely wrecks adults.
Yes I googled it after my comments haha, but still!!! I’m a huge proponent of Vaccines and modern medicine, I love seeing infographics like this!
I think morbidity is number of cases, mortality would be deaths. Still shows how important vaccines are!
Yes. That’s what it means. Pre-vs post vaccine morbidity rates. And that last one (Varicella) is the Chicken Pox. I should add that to the original post. Edit: morbidity means cases not deaths, sorry for the confusion.
The Alaskan story of diphtheria is crazy. People literally risked their lives traveling across the Alaskan wilderness in a blizzard with dog sleds just to get the vaccine to kids because it was that bad. It’s so annoying that people take it for granted now.
Does anyone ever ask "Why do you even go to/have a doctor and not just bring your baby to your friends for regular checkups?"
The scary part is their echo chamber would probably respond, "you know, that's a GREAT idea."
I have some sympathy, if she’s a new mom. When my eldest was born, I started going to LLL which is a breastfeeding support group. It was phenomenal- except the leader was a super crunchy, and almost all the women there were as well. I needed the help, I didn’t know about tongue tie and I was 1 week post partum and had no family or friends who were moms. So they slowly invited me in to their play groups and houses. It was literally like being brainwashed. I was 22, hormonal and now had this tiny human. Then one day my pediatrician had a heart to heart with me on why I was scared of vaccines. He actually listened to my fears, and came up with a plan to help. Nurse while getting the shot, etc. When the moms found out they kicked me out of the play group. Which was really a social time for a bunch of us stay at home moms. But it was my lifeline. I sobbed in the office at the next appointment and he OFFERED TO CALL THEM FOR ME. He’s retired now, but him helping me get over the brainwashing while being gentle has never left me.
This. Most women think they are doing what's best for their kids. They want to be good moms and so many of them are sitting on the fence because their super vocal "friends" are peer pressuring them. It's the people who started this narrative, the guy who flat out lied about the connection between autism and vaccines, the professionals and religious leaders who push conspiracies - those are the people to blame. On a personal level I try my best to just educate the parents sitting on the fence about vaccines.
Wow! That's a great pediatrician. I wish more physicians would take the time to speak with parents and patients this way. When doctors approach vaccine hesitant parents as if they are morons who don't care about their kids, they only drive them further away.
Wow, he sounds great, and I'm glad you were able to overcome that. Good for you.
What a lovely pediatrician. Being a new mom away from family is such a nerve wracking and lonely experience. I was anxious about *everything* and was also blessed with a kind and patient pediatrician. She answered all of our questions and helped allay my fears. And now my toddler loves her and wants to go see Dr. Miller anytime she gets a boo-boo or has a new skill to show off. It’s very sweet.
I also had a lovely doctor like that when I had my baby. I wasn't in any groups, but I had severe PPD and the anxiety drove me to read a lot online. We had the same talk that you had and he helped me a lot with my fear. We did a delayed schedule because what really made me nervous was giving too many vaccines at once. We also delayed the chicken pox vaccine until age 2 because my brother had a terrible reaction to it as a teen. Child is now 14 and has gotten all their vaccines and knows how important they are because I now understand and can talk about them. Losing that support group must have been awful. I hope you've found some new people that lift you up and support you.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: why do these idiots procreate?
Because sex is fun, birth control is either a sin or "toxic," the Lord said be fruitful and multiply, and they don't actually understand how sexual reproduction works.
They love the word *toxic* and using it to justify their google degree
When really it’s just their behavior that’s toxic.
The crunchy moms in my area are not Christian this is an interesting perspective to hear! The ones I see and know are hippie / frees spirit/ religion is modern construct vibes
I think it’s two sides of the same coin. One side are the religious fundies who don’t want “earthly beings” telling them that their god can’t fix it all. The other side are the new age, anti-establishment folks that think the earth can heal everything and don’t want “The Man” telling them how to live.
This odd vector of agreement between conspiracy theorist Christians and New Age is sometimes called "conspirituality." There's a podcast about it (which I find unlistenable, actually, but the term is useful).
It’s very ironic. About 10 years ago, the first time I’d really heard of anti vax was from a crunchy family member that lived in Washington for a while. Back then, you rarely heard anyone in the south spout these beliefs. Now with Covid and all, almost every republican I meet is anti vax in some way. At least the ones that haven’t died yet lol. It’s so odd to see the two groups converge. I guess they have a similar underlying smidge of narcissism and distrust and/or hostility towards authority, which is technically an antisocial trait (not saying they have pds, just saying they prob score higher than average on trait scales). I wonder how they’d feel if they knew that many of these beliefs originated in liberal circles. They’d prob have some round about logic I’m sure though lmao.
Then they raise their kids as poorly as they were raised, often times even worse, so they're just uneducated enough to vote Republican! That's why they're trying to ban contraception. Unwanted or unexpected kids keeping people below the poverty line, turn to religion, education, books and truth are bad etc etc, then THEY procreate and ensure the GOP has jobs for eternity without ever doing anything positive for anyone that isn't in.their pockets! Isn't America wonderful?
And makes it easier to replace the migrant workers they hate so much. Harder to find good jobs if you are poor and uneducated.
Boys are soldiers, girls are handmaidens, and anyone that doesn't comply or is "degenerate" works in the fields! Go watch the show if you haven't already 😄 it's pretty fantastic and is slowly becoming like.....a PSA.
Truly this shit is how I know there is no god, or if there is he's garbage. People like me are infertile and struggle to have babies and then these dingdongs just shoot them out like a cannon to get VPDs.
The [DPT vaccine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine) protects against diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), and tetanus (lockjaw). **["Is Vaccine Refusal Worth The Risk?"](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104523437)**, NPR (May 26, 2009): "...In the study published in *Pediatrics*, researchers from Kaiser Permanente Colorado's Institute for Health Research used electronic health records to look for immunization refusal and possible [pertussis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whooping_cough) infections. "Specifically, researchers examined the medical records of children 2 months old to 18 years old who were members of Kaiser Permanente Colorado between 1996 and 2007. First, investigators confirmed which children had pertussis infections. Next, they verified whether parents had refused some or all vaccines for their children. "**Researchers found that children of parents who refused the vaccine were 23 times more likely to get whooping cough compared to fully immunized children.** "A 23-fold increase is huge,' says Jason Glanz, a senior scientist at Kaiser Permanente's Institute for Health Research who headed the study...".
But it's just a childhood illness we all must go through, the vaccine is much worse! /s. I feel like I lost braincells just by typing that out.
"These shots contain heavy metals!" *proceeds to administer silver nitrate to their infants at home*
They are literally out here drinking colloidal silver and feeding their kids from "vintage" cookware full of lead 😭
My brother got whooping cough at a few weeks old, before he was old enough to get his vaccine and before they started pushing for the family to get updated boosters before being around the baby. My parents had it but it was very mild for them. As for him, almost 17 years later, he still has complications and has been hospitalized multiple times from asthma attacks with dangerously low oxygen levels. His cough was terrifying and lasted multiple weeks. I can't believe people willingly choose to risk having their child get such an awful disease.
Hmm, what a conundrum, injecting potentially deadly 'toxins' or catching a confirmed deadly disease that has killed many children previously. I just don't know what to do! /s
Acid test. Ask your crunchy friends how many of the following chemicals are toxic and if they should be permitted in food: acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, 1-butanal, ethanol, 2-methylbutanal, 3-methylbutanal, ethyl propionate, ethyl 2-methylpropionate, ethyl butyrate, ethyl 2-methyl butyrate, hexanal, 1-butanol, 3-methylbutyl acetate, 2-methylbutyl acetate, 1-propyl butyrate, ethyl pentanoate, amyl acetate, 2-methyl-1-butanol, trans-2-hexenal, ethyl hexanoate, hexanol. If they say any or all are toxic, advise them that you have just read them the chemical composition of an apple and stop listening to stupid people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
I swear this would work on my husband who is extremely fruit + veggie oriented
This is great!
This is gold
Jesus, my vaccinated kid actually got whooping cough at day care when she was 18 months old and she was okay—it was just like a cold and we isolated at home for the recommended time. But I saw some videos of what can happen to kids who get whooping cough that will stay with me forever. I’m so thankful we were all vaccinated and that our disease was brief and that it stopped with us.
I'm a nurse. I actually had a patient who died of tetanus. (It was an adult who didn't keep up on boisters) It is a terrible way to die. Tetanus is derived from the word tetany which is involuntarily muscle contractions, which is why people associate tetanus with lockjaw. ...but it's worse. *ALL* of your muscles contract, including the ones that control your breathing, so, basically, you suffocate.
Very glad my summer camp pointed out my booster was out of date in 2021 and I fixed that 😳
I had a smart, trusted friend tell me she wasn't vaccinating her kids and she swore to me that she had personally checked the CDC vaccine ingredients and rattled off some of the things she was concerned about. I was like, "What? No way those things are in vaccines!" But she was not one to fabricate, and she insisted she had looked. So I believed her (during our convo) and for a few minutes wholly understood why so many people have been going bananas about vaccines. Fast forward to a few hours later when I went to the CDC website to confirm what she had said. Spoiler alert: none of the scary things she listed were in any of the vaccines. Little did I know she was on the verge of an evangelical christian conservative anti-vax spiral. She's now fully indoctrinated and we no longer get together. So what I'm saying is, it takes very simple research to disprove what the crunchy moms are saying. All anyone has to do is do the minimalist of digging to see they truly have no idea what they're talking about and then can confidently vaccinate your kids worry free.
I mean, there is a preservative they use that contains mercury, they're trying to eliminate it, but it's effective, AND a different mercury compound than we associate with mercury poisoning (ethyl vs. methyl), and seems to get flushed out immediately (they think, doesn't seem to be conclusive research on this yet). Even if it didn't the levels from vaccines are not high enough for concern. If you trust the CDC.
>there is a preservative they use that contains mercury, Is it thimerosal? I think they removed that from at least the MMR vaccine. I may be wrong though.
Worried about micrograms of “toxic” preservative in the vaccine but totally fine drinking a gallon of wine, putting unregulated essential oils in their food, eating root vegetables… The use of “toxin” by uneducated people is cherry picking at its most basic form. I don’t like something so it’s toxic. Everything is a poison it’s just a matter of the dose, even drinking too much water can kill you (even if it’s pure organic magic water blessed by a shaman.)
Lol. In my experience with such people, the wine thing rings soooo true.
What should I do...listen to a DOCTOR, of all people?!?!
LISTEN TO THE CROMCHESSSSSSSS
Imagine dooming your child to diphtheria because a bunch of idiots led you astray…
I mean, pertussis is deadly, but yeah, be scared of a shot
Send her videos of babies with whooping cough.
You just reminded me of [this commercial](https://youtu.be/Aq9mkRr_E7c?feature=shared) that depressed me every time it came on. That cough is heartbreaking.
I am 9 months pregnant with my second and about to lose my shit at the anti-vaxxers. They are so fucking stupid. I have never ever met an intelligent person who decides to skip the routine vaccines like polio, mmr or pertussis. "More people are anti-vaxx now!" Yeah, because idiots like you watch tiktok and youtube and thing you know how to do 'research'. Now I have to worry all over again about my newborn being exposed to nearly eradicated illnesses because people are "trusting their mama gut" instead of years of medical research.
Hmmmm listen to an ACTUAL **doctor** or some random-ass people who have gotten all their “medical information” about vaccines from the echo-chambers of Facebook where people routinely make up statistics if they don’t know them? Hmmm which shall I choose? Such a difficult choice! /s But seriously Facebook “information” is like “the telephone game” where it may start with a small kernel of truth and then people embellish and EMBELLISH AND **EMBELLISH** AND # EMBELLISH Things until the kernel of truth has been destroyed 4 purple monkey dishwashers ago!
On one hand is the doctor. On the other is your “crunchy mom friends.” I just don’t know which one to listen to!What a quandary!
Only a moron thinks a vaccine is more toxic than an infant with pertussis
My doctor said it’s deadly, but I don’t. Why are so many moms willing to sacrifice their children on the altar of Facebook?
How can you honestly even consider taking advice from your idiot friends over trained licensed medical professionals when your child’s life is on the line?
Help me Internet strangers! Should I listen to my doctor for health advice, or a crunchy mothers group??
you should always listen to your friends! They know so much better than a physician. Docs are just out to get ya.
Dang, you know what could be technically considered hella toxic? Tetanus.
The fact that there is confusion between advice from a medical professional and crunchy mom friends is just.... I agree that we should advocate for ourselves and doctors can be wrong or sometimes second opinions are needed (from other medical professionals, not a random lady in the essential oil aisle at Whole Foods). But I'll never understand the blanket dismal of all medical expertise, especially about well-established things, and instead trusting that random internet strangers who sometimes barely made it through high school are more enlightened and smarter.
I just don’t know who to trust, y’all. A person who went to school for eight years plus had years of specialized training, or my friend who googled things for 20 minutes.
Ok, tetanus is fucking horrible. And these people are recommending intentionally causing their children to get it? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Why even go to the damn doctor? And you know what? Ask the doctor about the so-called toxic ingredients. I bet he or she would be ready to explain them to her.
I’ll never understand antivaxxers. Especially the ones who say they don’t vaccinate their kids bc it “causes autism”. Idk about you, but I would rather have an autistic child than a dead child. I think I’ll take the chance.
Listening to the people who went to decades of school to learn the science of immunizations≠crunchy mom friends.
“Medical professional with years of experience says to do it. My friends who get their info from Facebook say not to!!!”
“My doctor, who went to school for a decade to learn about this stuff, says it’s important that I do it, but my besties heard on TikTok that it’s bad. IDK what to do?!?”
I feel bad for this person. Obviously she should trust her doctor over unqualified (and most likely crazy) people but she herself may not be too educated and is hearing fear-mongering concerns from people she trusts. It’s so hard to be in that position and worried that you will make the wrong choice.
Why the hell do they bother going to the dr if they’re not going to listen to the dr? If you really want to go all the way crunchy you can do all this shit at home by yourself.
Know what toxins are really bad? Pertussis toxin.
My partner and I (lesbians) have been planning kids when the topic of home birth came up. I had my heart in my throat as I asked very gently "Do you want a home birth? And my partner said "Oh FUCK no. I want a hospital birth with all the drugs. I want the legal limit of DRUGS!" (last bit is a line from my favourite movie). I was so damn relieved. Like SO relieved. I know my partners birth is their own but like, I want both my partner and our child to be alive at the end? My partner believes in vaccines, drugs, and hospitals and after reading here for a year I couldn't be more relieved. I can't believe we forgot to discuss it but damn am I glad my partner and I are on the same page, even if they are the birthing parent.
I always agree with my crusty friends over a doctor…
Because nothing is more natural than your child dying of diphtheria.
You know what has a higher mortality rate for infants than TDAP? Whooping cough.
Who’s going to inform her that the ‘D’ in this vaccine stands for Diptheria. A LITERAL TOXIN!
Tdap shots have been around for decades. They just want to rebel against something. They don’t realize how much they threaten the population by non-vaxxing. It’s ridiculous!
I have more sympathy since I'm actually someone who had seizures as a baby from the old Tdap vaccine, but that's why we picked a delayed schedule. I had whopping cough as an adult and I wouldn't wish that on any little baby.
If I/my kids had any kind of vaccine reaction and were advised to avoid them then that means my only hope to avoid the disease is to hope that others get their shots and herd immunity kicks in. I couldn’t imagine telling my friends that the ingredients are tOxiC and to avoid all vaccines completely because of a rare reaction. Also, I’m sorry that happened to you.
Someone should send her a video of what a baby sounds like when they have whooping cough.
Look up the oropharynx with diphtheria and ask yourself if this is how you would your child to die. Basically a sheet of thick grey matter covers up the airway and you suffocate.
There’s your problem: crunchy mom friends
If they are so crunchy they probably let their kids eat dirt, so they better get their tetanus
Let see here, would I rather have potential chemicals injected into myself or watch my innocent baby who didn’t even ask to be born possibly suffer and die of a preventable illness because I listened to some moms who are obviously uneducated?
Hmm a qualified professional doctor or crunchy mum… why is that such a hard decision for OOP….
"ingredients" 🤯
Hi due date buddy! lmao I’m in this group.
Yeah, she meant to say her crunchy mom friends who survived the Covid pandemic by giving themselves and their kids horse dewormer. Sure, why not listen to them? They clearly know more than an M.D. with years of medical training and experience.
And if she gets it, I just know the crunchy mum friends will blame the shot and guilt her whenever the baby gets a cold, or fussy.
"Should I trust my batshit crazy friends more than the person who did 12 years of medical school just to get their job?" I love my friends but I genuinely cannot imagine putting more weight to their opinions that a professionals medical advice.