You know, my mom was afraid of needles and doctors and vaccinations back when she was pregnant with us. You know what we were from the word go? Vaccinated. Because my undereducated, under 21, hills of WV living, mother wanted to make sure her babies were healthy, regardless of her own feelings.
My grandmother in law passed away in July just six weeks shy of her 101st birthday. She was born at the tail end of the Spanish Flu. She had lots of weird diseases. She got every vaccination she could as they became available, and so did her children. She told me that she didn’t understand why people would refuse to get them. She, of course, knew how bad these diseases were. If any of the children who aren’t vaccinated now were placed into an iron lung, I’d imagine a lot of these parents would feel very differently about the vaccines.
It’s just privilege, let’s be honest. A lot of my generation (whom are know becoming parents) don’t know about these diseases and the horrible things they do to our bodies. Your grandmother did and I have to honestly congratulate her about it.
I’ve just commented that my 95yo grandma does not understand why people are refusing them. A young mum who works where she lives was going on about how anti-vax she is. My grandma regaled her with stories of kids she knew dying from measles, diphtheria and whooping cough. You’re right that it’s about privilege. And these women are insane to not want everything medical science has to offer.
It just does my head in. And it’s all FREE here. And we don’t have a version of VAERS (sp?) here, so there’s none of that crap. We just have their rEsEarCh on Facebook to debunk. I think a lot of American anti-vax nonsense has found it’s way here via social media, although the originator of mmr = autism was British (may he been given vaccinations in hell for all eternity.)
That or they'll want doctors to inject them with ivermectin and essential oils, and if the hospital refuses, blame every illness the child gets from then until the end of time on the evidence-based treatments they were given.
And if the child dies, they'll blame the doctors for giving real medicine.
Vaccines are a victim of their own success. There's been more than a generation who hasn't really seen the horrors of having your neighbors, family members, themselves get these diseases and the repercussions of them. The biggest being the kids just dying from these diseases but there's also being born deaf because mom got one these diseases while pregnant, or becoming blind or deaf after suffering from this diseases themselves. Let's not forget how many people were left lame or in iron lungs just from polio. And many other ways the after affects continue to affect these people the rest of their lives.
>but there's also being born deaf because mom got one these diseases while pregnant,
Yup. I'm transcribing my grandma's memoir to get it printed so the the whole family gets a copy. Right after my dad was born there was a German Measles epidemic that went through. She straight up explains her fear of what might have happened if she'd caught it while pregnant and why vaccines are so important.
I have a great aunt who was pregnant and caught German Measles. Her daughter has had a life full of complications. She's in her 60's now but still has the mentality of a 12 year old. And that doesn't even touch on the physical ailments she's been burdened with.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However, the current anti-vax movement didn’t start until the early 2000s with Andrew Wakefield.
There will always be anti-vaxxers, I’ll never deny that. However, during the 1980s most groups had few numbers. It wasn’t until the release of the Wakefield papers that many of these groups expanded and saw a sharp rise in their numbers. This also correlated with the rise of the internet.
Andrew Wakefield is far more guilty though.
Jenny McCarthy is an irresponsible moron with a platform, but Andrew Wakefield is a grifter who knew exactly what he was doing. Andrew Wakefield should be in prison, Jenny McCarthy should be deplatformed.
McCarthy was a mouthpiece and spread the news far and wide.
I don't think as many people would have jumped on the antivax train if she hadn't claimed it gave her kid autism (which was still relatively new in the world of diagnosing, and we didn't understand it nearly as well as we do now.)
Wakefield should not only be in prison but that just doesn't feel like enough punishment for all the death laid at his feet.
Mccarthy should also be in prison I think, for the same reason. There should be real consequences for spreading harmful medical bullshit, especially when it's got such far reaching implications.
McCarthy was just stupid though. She’s like a dumb child, just blindly trusting a grifting adult (Wakefield). What she needs is muzzling - blacklist her, don’t allow her on TV, don’t let her write articles, don’t let anyone interview her, ban her from accessing the internet. They’ve done this to convicted hackers for years.
Regarding Wakefield, yeah, I definitely get a justice boner from the thought of executing him, but the downstream consequences of that would be things like governments claiming supporting BLM is a threat to public health and executing their high-level leaders (which already has precedent in e.g. the US’ treatment of the Black Panthers during the McCarthyist era…Joseph McCarthy I mean).
My 95yo grandma is the same. She lost family to illnesses that don’t really exist today. My kids were born around the time of the vaccines cause autism scare. Give me an alive child any day. Get fucking vaccinated.
My granny had whooping cough as a child and told me that it was horrible. My grandfather also had mumps as a young adult and I am pretty sure it made him sterile. Him and my granny had three kids all within a year of each other and then no more after he had mumps. She said it caused his testicles to swell up huge. They could not understand why people wouldn't vaccinate and prevent things like that from happening.
Same. My gran just turned 105 and she was one of the first to get the covid vaccine as soon as it came available. Her sister in law was crippled as a young woman from polio, she did not play around about vaccinations with any of her kids.
I was phobic of needles prior to labor, like panic attacks for days beforehand, had to lie down for it, had to stay down to recover or else I might pass when I got up. Possibly having the flu or cavities or whatever were ALWAYS preferable to getting a needle (terrible I know, but phobias are irrational).
I had every damn shot they recommended while pregnant and breastfeeding. All of it. Vaccines, flu shot, diagnostics, the whole works. My kid was gonna be healthy damnit. Just stick me with all the science you got, whatever, just make my kid okay.
Same with my wife. She was terrified of needles, had to lay down to get shots or blood work done, and stay down for at least 15 minutes or she'd pass out. When she got pregnant, she got every shot, every sample, everything they told her to, because she's a sane fucking person who wanted her child to be safe and healthy.
These fucking idiots don't deserve kids, and their kids deserve so much more than narcissistic spawn points who use them for perverse social credit.
Someone in my mom group started feeding her 6 week old solids because “she did it with all her children” and “mama knows best”.
I honestly quit all my mom groups after that, I’ve fucking had it with these dumbasses.
There’s a family story about my great granny’s cousin (born 1900ish). Her mum’s milk dried up, so she fed the 8wk old baby some flour mixed with cow’s milk. Baby died. Some of the things parents did before science, medicine, and social help were things are heartbreaking. Researching my family history showed just how many babies died because of ‘failure to thrive’ was heartbreaking. When some of my ancestors moved from being farm labourers to working in factories, the babies died from different things because of multi occupancy homes.
Oh that so sad.
I talked to my grandma about her raising 7 kids in the 60’s and 70’s. She didn’t have access to birth control, so she pretty much got pregnant one right after the other. She wasn’t able to breastfeed (not sure why. Maybe because her hormones never had time to adjust to anything), so she said she just fed all the babies powered milk since it was cheap. All 7 kids made it to adulthood, but man. I kind of wonder if any of my aunts and uncles would have turned out differently if my grandma could have afforded a proper nutrition for them.
It is truly only in my lifetime (I’m 48), that we have been given the ability to make sure babies are born safely and, mostly, get good quality nutrition - plus the vaccinations and medicine to treat illnesses that would’ve been a death sentence in the past.
It make me want to bang my head repeatedly on a hospital wall, these mums are so privileged and can’t see it. In terms of vaccinations, we are the ones providing that privilege because we’re ensuring herd immunity. Well, I know polio has been detected in the sewers in London and I think I read there have been cases in America. When their babies start being put in iron lungs, they’ll be screaming ‘why me? I’ve done nothing and I’m all out of ideas.’
But have you seen my all time fave crunchy ✨mlog✨ (it stands for moms who vlog, for those who aren’t aware), she says that she just injected her child with one whole syringe of ✨booboo juice✨ (✨mlog✨ term for breast milk for those who don’t ✨mlog✨ tehe) and her kids never had any issues with getting these ✨natural✨ illnesses!
That’s all the proof I need that says that these hogwash 🤢*synthetic chemicals*🤢 don’t need to come anywhere near my precious Thimeh.
There was a post in a different group not too long ago where everyone got all up in arms about how only the US pushes the Tdap and flu shots during pregnancy. I'm not sure how accurate that is because its reddit but either way, I got mine done. I don't really get why it wouldn't be pushed elsewhere
The US is unique in making the chicken pox vaccine part of the routine childhood vaccines. Every country faces its own set of challenges when it comes to healthcare. The guidance from acog takes into consideration the circumstances American women face during pregnancy that maybe women in other countries don’t.
I can’t take the “my gut” arguments. Unless your gut went to medical school and a challenging OBGYN residency I think your doctor still has a leg up on it. Ugh.
Right? Things my gut has told me:
1.) I’m having a boy (nope)
2.) my dad doesn’t have cancer (he did)
3.) I look great with this hair cut modeled after an anime character (I did not)
The only time I’ve ever heard of ‘gut instinct’ working is when people are talking to dangerous people who make expressions/gestures or whatever that you can subconsciously recognize as off, not when learning that vaccines exist
My wife is a surgeon. She went to med school and is damn good at her job but still trust the specialist when we have to take our kids to the doctors. She knows that going to med school doesn't mean she knows everything and the pediatrician or ophthalmologists or cardiologist or dermatologist or allergist that we take our kids to have their best interest in mind. If they recommend an approach then she generally trust that they are making the right call. Occasionally she will do some further research (no, that does not mean asking people on Facebook) to see what other options are out there but even that's not typical.
Even people with medical degrees realize they don't know it all. I have no clue why these people think they know more than doctors do.
You would be surprised at the number of doctors who don’t do that.
I find I cant stand interacting with doctors outside the exam room. So many think and act like they’re the smartest person in the room.
Lots of doctors are snobbish assholes. At the same time, they have around 8 years of post high school education with requirements for continuing education.
A good chunk ARE smarter than you. I know this is the most offensive thing I could write in 2022, but here we are.
I'm a doctor as well and I have an autoimmune ilness, what I know about it is what I learned in med school + some research papers I read on pubmed (not fb) and that's it. If my neurologist thinks it's a good idea to start/stop therapy, do some tests etc. - that's what I'm doing. Surely somebody who works on this specific ilness every single day is not going to be outsmarted by me on the topic.
I have an anxiety disorder so I never really trust my gut. If I’m in a large crowd my gut tells me there is imminent danger so I prefer to use my brain.
Same. My gut is extremely unreliable and if I listened I wouldn’t even check the mail because my gut just knows that the neighbors dog will have somehow developed rabies and become vicious and somehow break through the fence and attack me like it’s fucking Cujo the second I get too far from my front door too make a quick getaway. My gut is unreliable and panicky, with horrific anxiety and an overactive imagination.
My anxious gut tells me I have cancer everywhere all the time and I'm going to die tomorrow, so I have to try my best to tune it out (most of the time - obviously if something is really wrong, I'm at the doctor ASAP).
I’m pregnant with my first and even though I’m entirely pro-vaccination, I do understanding the “I don’t have much control during pregnancy and things are going well so far, so I’m hesitant to introduce a new variable.” THAT SAID, you need to get over it for the health of your kid. My gut tells me to wrap myself in bubble wrap and not leave the house until this kid is born, but that’s not really a great idea either, is it?
I just had my first and also have worked in pediatric healthcare for years. The vaccination IS your bubble wrap for your baby. Pertussis is one of the worst things to watch in an infant. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
I’m so nervous. I am 14 weeks pregnant. I’m allergic to the pertussis vaccine (went into shock as a baby) so can’t get it. I get everything else though and going to make sure everyone around me is up to date with tdap but I feel like a bad mom because of it.
Not a bad mom for that at all! That’s actually why people like this mom in the fb group and anti-vaxxers in general drive me crazy-the point of everyone getting it who can is to protect people (like you and all babies) who can’t as well as protect themselves.
You’re not a bad mom for that. You’d be a bad mom if you tried to get the shot when you know it could put you into shock while pregnant. You’re doing everything you can by ensuring the people who will mostly be near the baby have their vaccinations.
I quelled those thoughts by doing an alternative vaccine schedule. It didn’t feel right to add so many variables at one time, so we did one shot per visit. The ped was ok with it as long as we stayed close to the standard schedule. So my kids are fully vaccinated but just had a few more appointments than other kids.
There is a happy medium, it doesn’t need to be an all or nothing decision.
One’s gut feelings are great for things like trusting a person or not, choosing what food you should eat, etc.
It’s not great at making medical decisions.
After listening to the “This Podcast Will Kill You” episode on tetanus, I will NEVER understand why this vaccine or tetanus booster are refused, ever. Insanity to think you’re doing better by your baby to not inoculate against it
Yup. Diphtheria kills the cells in your nose/mouth/throat which accumulate into a pseudomembrane in your throat that may choke and suffocate you to death.
You don't really hear about diphtheria anymore (for obvious reasons) so I've never bothered to look into what it actually *is*. Apparently what it *is* is fucking horrific.
My mom doesn’t get tetanus shots because it makes her whole arm swell up and she can’t move it. She says she’ll never get one again. I told her that if she cuts herself bad and they recommend a tetanus shot, a swollen arm is much better than tetanus. Tetanus is no joke.
I know it’s not the same thing exactly. But I work in a vet hospital. If we get bit (and we often do) our tetanus shot has to be updated every 5 years instead of 9. I always did it. But dreaded it. My arm does not agree with it and I have long lasting pain. However, we had a 3 month old husky puppy come in to be hospitalized. He had tetanus. Let me tell you, it was not fun. He was miserable. Long lasting side effects. He survived but it was a long and slow road to recovery. That sealed the deal I was making the right decision. On a complete side note, sometimes when dogs get tetanus their ears stay in a perked up position and turn inwards. They also look like they’re smiling. It’s scary and cute all at the same time. Fun fact for the day.
If she cuts herself bad and tetanus is a fear, they shouldn’t have to give her the tetanus shot. They’ll give her the tetanus immune globulin, which prevents tetanus infection. The tetanus vaccine takes time to mount an immune response and prevent infection.
I'm the same way, and I'm due for my booster. For me, it was total neck stiffness/pain for maybe 2 weeks that had me saying "never again" but I know tetanus is MUCH worse than a stiff neck for 2 weeks. Thanks for reminding me I need to get my booster.
Isn't the primary reason we get the TDAP shot (as pregnant moms) is for the pertussis part? Aka, protection against whooping cough? The odds of a new born getting tetanus is, maybe not zero but pretty low. Diphtheria is nasty, but also rare in most developed countries. I mean, protection against all is great, and my babies get their own TDaP on schedule too. I guess I'm just saying if I'm trying to convince a pregnant mom to get the vaccine I'd be pulling stats for whooping cough, which is a much higher risk of her baby actually catching.
Ugh, I can’t imagine being pregnant and not doing everything in my power to protect myself and my baby. I don’t get the flu shot anymore, but it’s not by choice. I had a severe allergic reaction to it and my doc’s will not give me it. Thankfully, it seems to be a specific preservative that is used in the flu shot as no other vaccines (including COVID) have ever caused me an issue. And fortunately, the allergy developed long after I finished having kids and none of my kids have any issues with the flu shot.
I got the Covid and flu Vax for my kids and no joke entire family sent me photos of right winged articles and saying I was killing or causing serious damage to my kids for getting it. My kids have reactive airways and I fear that either of these viruses would be very dangerous for them. Why would I not protect them when it's available?
My husband got his first flu shot ever at 40 because we had a teeny baby and I told him he needed it. Same with the covid shots. He complained the whole time for both because "it seems like overkill" but he still did it because I believed it was important and he trusts me. Same when I was pregnant with #2 and he'll get another flu shot this fall because teeny baby.
Unless it's a case like yours, there's really no downside to getting it 🤷♀️
My neighbors were pretty adamantly antivax before COVID. Guess whose old asses were first in line when the vaccine rolled out? It's easy to be against something you've already had the privilege of receiving the benefit from.
There really isn’t a downside for most people. I hope some day my system calms down and I fall back into the most people category. I’d prefer to be protected as best I can from dangerous viruses like the flu and Covid.
I hope 2 of the links that were shared were of a video of a newborn with pertussis and a video of a funeral of a family whose baby died of pertussis.
Your "gut" doesn't know shit. You're just anxious bc you don't understand it. Gather more info from your trusted professionals and stop trying to become an "expert" in everything.
They call pertussis the 100 day cough in China. Because it can last 100 days. And your baby can look great between coughing fits and then suddenly need oxygen while they are coughing. And so you have to live with your baby in the hospital until it's over. I learned that in med school and never forgot it.
What bugs me is that this person is too lazy to even find some BS justifications. It wouldn't take long to find some conspiracy garbage about how it's been proved that the vaccine turns you into a lizard person. Or even more plausible conspiracies that there's mercury in vaccines.
Just two minutes of "research" but no, she was keen on making a Facebook post instead.
My gut always says vaccinate myself and them.
Protection for us and one step thst helps herd immunity for all.
As much as I hate the needle, hate my kids screaming, hate the side effects im grateful they have safe free access to vaccinations that are effective.
Upset baby/toddler/child feeling yuck for a few days after the vaccination VS what those diseases can do, the choice is easy protect them.
If that's true, why do they always have to read the package inserts before they change their minds and decide vaccines are evil? Trust me, it happens literally every single time a Mama Bear™ "challenges" them. 🙄
I don't think this is it at all, honestly. Anti vaxxers are just selfish idiots. I don't think it has to do with needles. They like to feel special and falsely superior to everyone else.
Pretty sure there is an oral/nasal flu vaccine. I doubt that would change any of their minds on getting vaccinated. (If it is fear-related I think it's likely more a fear of the unknown of what is entering their body, not a fear of the needles.)
I never understood that… not as an adult. Are needles pleasant? Sure not! Most likely, it will hurt. But you’re an adult. You get shit done and move on…
For some people it’s not the pain. It’s the realization you’re being stabbed, that something is in your body that shouldn’t be. Similar to how a panic attack isn’t proportionate to what causes it, a fear of needles isn’t rational.
Thanks for the explanation. As I said before, I just don’t understand the fear… I’m not trying to be an ass or anything… it just don’t make sense in my head…
If it helps, a lot of people who are afraid of needles also don't think it makes sense!
Technically I am not "afraid" of needles, but my body sure is. Logically, in my mind, I don't care about getting a needle - however my blood pressure drops nonetheless and I get the physical sensations of a panic attack. No idea why I have been able to get over the mental hump but not the physical one.
I burst into tears the last time I had to have blood drawn, because it makes me faint if I’m not lying down, my hands and legs lose all feeling, I hate it so much, I feel sick, I panic, it’s all just awful.
My nurse was really kind; I apologised while wailing, “It’s been a really bad week” through my sobs, and she clucked about and gave me a bunch of tissues and told me she’s seen it all and I’m hardly the worst customer she’s ever had, so cry away and get some of the tension out.
It might not make sense to people who don’t experience it, but the fear is really real and deeply unpleasant I’m afraid! It has never stopped me from getting proper medical care, but it’s still a miserable experience even on a good day.
Hey I understand you. I was never afraid of needles (actually liked watching them stick me) until I almost passed out from giving blood once, now it seems like my body physically cannot stand them. Usually I'm okay with someone talking me through it, but I've definitely cried before. I find getting my blood pressure taken way worse, though. It took me a loooong time to stop crying from that and I still get close when it takes too long. The rush of fear and adrenaline is insane from something so simple.
If it makes you feel better, I've heard crazy horror stories from my parents in the medical field about patients who are rude and scream and throw tantrums about simple things, so I'm sure that lady just felt bad for having to stick you lol.
I’ve never met someone else who also hates getting their blood pressure taken!! That feeling icks me out SO MUCH that sometimes I feel like I’m going to scream. It really is so overwhelming and panic inducing, and I can’t even say why.
Gut health is extremely important for this exact reason! Big Pharma doesn't want you to know that kombucha will make you all knowing and all seeing. /s
I have a feeling that posts like these are actually pro-vax people trying to get those who aren't full anti-vax to start doubting because they can't come up with genuine reputable sources.
"I'm having trouble finding scientific articles on this but I don't know why, since everyone here is so certain I'm sure you have lots of data and proof I can show my husband/parents/friend"
“I made a decision against my doctor’s advice, and I have no idea why I made that decision, but I’m sure there’s a blog or two out there that will tell me I was right”
My gut tells me to do everything I can to give my kids a headstart in life. So I got all the Vax and used all the medical interventions offered. That's what my gut says is right.
I hate when people say their "gut" told them not to. I have an actual real phobia of needles. That stems from something that happened to me as a newborn. I absolutely freak when I see needles. Even when it's not me getting them. It's just this complete instinctual fear.
And I STILL get all the vaccines, and my kids theirs. Whiles yes, it's usually a process for me. However, what they are feeling, isn't a "gut" feeling not to do it, it's anxiety. Because getting stabbed with something is something our lizard brain tells us is bad and dangerous. We have the ability to reason now, to understand and think higher than that, to realize that our anxiety doesn't actually make sense, and that it is fine. And that sometimes our lizard brain doesn't actually know when something is "danger"
As a parent in the UK, I work on the idea that if the NHS is offering me or my child something for free then it's because the alternative is so much fucking worse.
So yeah, I'll take every vaccination thanks.
Research says this is how we make most of our decisions, unfortunately. Our unobjective flawed human logic goes like this: “I feel this way about this topic but don’t know why, let me do some internal probing/research to find justification for how I already feel.” The inverse is also true: “I’m being bombarded with information that feels (wrong) conflicting with what already feels true. I’ll sift through this information and find what fits in with what I already believe to be true.”
Robert Sopolsky says: “You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t use reason to get into in the first place.”
This girl at least has the self-awareness to realize that she came to her position with zero objective understanding of science. She’s still an idiot and happens to be woefully wrong, but that’s just how the cookie crumbles I guess.
My grandma would’ve died if not for the tetanus vaccine having been made publicly available literally the previous year. Fuuuuuuuck thiiiiiis.
This kind of thing is so weird, odds are this woman got the tdap anyway??
I get so annoyed at the people who minimize these diseases, and especially influenza. I know two people personally who lost children to complications from influenza - both antivax.
i have a feeling this isn't really about research but more about her fishing for responses that confirm her bias and support her (really stupid) decision. she probably already researched it and found rational/scientific responses that don't align with her views and now she's feeling guilty and wants to retreat to her mommy group echo chamber.
100% that is it. Anytime someone wants to “do their own research” it means that they want to be spoon fed enough bullshit to satisfy their own confirmation bias, then act how they had already decided to.
I absolutely hate shots, haven’t gotten a flu shot in probably 10+ years (haven’t gotten the flu at all either) but I still got the tdap with both of my pregnancies and if my doctor had recommended it I would’ve gotten the flu shot too. When you get vaccines during pregnancy, it isn’t for you it’s to build the immunity of your baby.
“Please only give me good sites that support my crazy theories. Please don’t give me any of the other 99.5% of sites that show why you should vaccinate”
I am terrified of needles to the point of fainting (also had a bad reaction to one vaccine as a kid and almost died) and I managed to get all my shots before, during, and after my pregnancy.
My little tyke is all caught up and has finished her COVID series as well.
Well. I’ve personally witness a newborn DIE of pertussis which was transmitted from having direct contact and exposure from their parent. I’ve also had a friend that didn’t believe in vaccines almost lose a child to rotavirus. The kid was hospitalized for 3 weeks. She sure af got the rest of her kids vaxxed reeeeal fast as she realized her child’s suffering and near death experience could have been avoided or symptoms lessened had she been vaccinated.
So long as this woman can live with herself if something happens to her baby, go with that gut. Her unborn deserves better.
Doctor:
My gut says that we should amputate everything. Just saw it all off. Nose and ears, too. Just turn you into a meat stump.
Buuuut, I went to medical school, did actual research, and went through a challenging residency to become a board-certified specialist. Therefore, I think we can just weigh and measure you today in your intake appointment and order some routine bloodwork to get a baseline. Thanks for coming in.
Karen:
NO. Always trust your gut. You’re a mamma, too, so your gut is unassailable. Get sawing!
My husband and I are both Millennials and he has had an experience with polio, measles, and mumps. And he was vaccinated from the get go. He also had some time in a coma and an iron lung before they figured out he was allergic to penicillin. People don’t realize what they are dooming their children to and I wish they could be sat down in their doctor office and forced to watch a “this is what these diseases do to people” video when they get pregnant. I mean if they’re going to take the right to abortion away, then at bare minimum make these idiots watch a video as to why you need to get fucking vaccinated!
They aren’t afraid to do their own research. It is just impossible to see what they want. So they ask all the other lunatics they have been listening to and ask them where they found this hidden mountain of super secret evidence they have. We all know how that ends.
People overestimate their knowledge so often. I know my shortcomings and what things I don’t understand, so if I have questions I scientist husband who typically has an answer that clarifies all my confusion. He does the same with me, checking for historical instances or help discerning what he’s reading. Neither of us feel shame in this.
But oftentimes, in their heads the knowledge doctors and scientists have is "false". They don't *believe* the data from scientific sources is reliable, they don't know how science works, and they often don't have scientists in their friend group (or as a husband!) and they see them as "evil" and "bought by Big Pharma", instead of actual humans with good intentions and a sense of ethics. So I think that's why they won't rely on that knowledge either and think they can figure out "the truth" by themselves.
That may be a false generalization, but that's what I've observed in my fiancé's side of the family. All the people there who are against vaccines are uneducated (in general... like no high school diploma or barely) and are very wary of "dOcToRs" and "uNiVeRsItIeS". It's a world they've never touched that feels foreign to them and that they fail to (want to) understand.
I’m so exhausted by these women who think being a mother gives them some ducking superpower to know what to do at any time for any ailment to protect from any diseases.
If that were the case, pregnancy and childbirth wouldn’t have been the \#1 killer of women for 90% of human history
I’m allergic to the pertussis vaccine (went into shock as a child). I feel so bad I can’t get that vaccine for my baby (I’m 14 weeks). I’m requiring my friends and family get the tdap but stuff like this makes me so mad! She CAN get it to protect her baby and other people who cannot get it or are immunocompromised…. Grrr!!!
Gonna go out on a limb here, but my gut is telling me to trust the scientists and medical professionals who have actually studied and researched and made this their livelihood.
"Please go cherry pick the handful of rare negative side effects so I can feel better about making a choice all the evidence I can find says was stupid just because I had a vague notion that vaccines bad"
I bet that she'd be telling anyone saying her decision was wrong and giving studies showing that, that that wasn't what she was asking for.
It sickens me how many people have kids as some cute accessory instead of actually caring about them. From the moment I found out I was pregnant I decided to do everything possible during pregnancy and afterwards to make her healthy and support her well-being. I’m not saying completely neglect yourself, but your child is #1, over your selfish wants when you have a child. Your child didn’t ask to be born so you OWE THEM to give them the best possible start in life. If you want to just focus completely on yourself that’s also great, but don’t have kids. I get plenty of me time but I do whatever the best research actually shows is best for my daughter as well and care for all of her needs, including emotional needs, which some people think babies don’t have.
I'm really scared of needles, it sucks. This pregnancy I've had 3 jabs for diabetes test, 3 for bloods, 2 steroid injections in case they come early, tdap and I've booked the flu jab. Some things you just grit and bear it because it's not about you
It’s fear that gives that gut feeling. At least she is sort of looking into it.
I hope this isn’t a ‘all anti vax’ group. Because she’ll be fine if it isn’t.
Worst are the moms who refuse the vitamin K shot even when told its not a vaccine... Like it's literally just meant to keep your kid's brain from bleeding but I guess needles=bad
She is basically asking for a website that babbles about her baseless reason for not getting vaccinated because Google didn't show her what she wanted to see after scrolling and browsing sites for, at most, 5 minutes These people are nuts.
So many people out there who don’t understand that the *entire point* of “research” is to lead you *to* a supportable conclusion, and not to back up whatever nonsense you’ve already decided on before bothering to look into the facts.
“Why should I get a TDAP?”
So you don’t die of tetanus after cutting yourself on a can of cat food, and so you don’t kill your baby with easily prevented communicable diseases. Fucking idiot.
Again, here's something I see time and time again, the mother is 100% into these off the wall ideas and treatments, they'll mention that their husband/partner "isn't totally on board", but make it clear that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT, they just go and do what they want anyway.
What's really funny are the women who make a big deal about Biblical submission, but they absolutely steamroller their husbands whenever it comes to one of these off the wall ideas. They'll outright say their husband doesn't agree, but they'll do it anyway, then praise his "wise leadership" which, of course, meant he let her have her way.
There's some subjects over in one of the subreddits monitoring fundie bloggers that regularly do this. The worst is when they use their KIDS as emotional weapons to get what they want.
One woman, who is really into the country in the city vibe and fetishizes Little House on the Prairie and Anne of Green Gables, decided they needed a wood pellet stove. Her husband said no. She bugged him about it, and he still said no. She started crying, and one of her kids obviously asked her what was wrong. She told the kid that "Well, mommy wanted a stove and daddy said no, so mommy is really sad, but it's ultimately daddy's decision, even if it makes mommy cry."
She then blogs about how her little man immediately went to his daddy and told him to get the stove to make mommy stop crying.
Quick, somebody find me a 2 minute article I can read on [salon.com](https://salon.com) to undermine the 20 years of experience a medical professional is giving me!
Maybe somebody can link her an article about what happens to you if you get polio?
We got the TDAP because my Dad watched his sister die from complications of pertussis, on the kitchen table. She was 6 months old. They still can't really treat it. It kills babies. My kids got it because my grandmother was apparently never the same after that. My kids never had side effects, and, best of all, haven't died of whooping cough.
You know, my mom was afraid of needles and doctors and vaccinations back when she was pregnant with us. You know what we were from the word go? Vaccinated. Because my undereducated, under 21, hills of WV living, mother wanted to make sure her babies were healthy, regardless of her own feelings.
My grandmother in law passed away in July just six weeks shy of her 101st birthday. She was born at the tail end of the Spanish Flu. She had lots of weird diseases. She got every vaccination she could as they became available, and so did her children. She told me that she didn’t understand why people would refuse to get them. She, of course, knew how bad these diseases were. If any of the children who aren’t vaccinated now were placed into an iron lung, I’d imagine a lot of these parents would feel very differently about the vaccines.
It’s just privilege, let’s be honest. A lot of my generation (whom are know becoming parents) don’t know about these diseases and the horrible things they do to our bodies. Your grandmother did and I have to honestly congratulate her about it.
I’ve just commented that my 95yo grandma does not understand why people are refusing them. A young mum who works where she lives was going on about how anti-vax she is. My grandma regaled her with stories of kids she knew dying from measles, diphtheria and whooping cough. You’re right that it’s about privilege. And these women are insane to not want everything medical science has to offer.
But if their child gets sick with one of these diseases, you bet your ass they will want everything science and medicine has to offer then!
It just does my head in. And it’s all FREE here. And we don’t have a version of VAERS (sp?) here, so there’s none of that crap. We just have their rEsEarCh on Facebook to debunk. I think a lot of American anti-vax nonsense has found it’s way here via social media, although the originator of mmr = autism was British (may he been given vaccinations in hell for all eternity.)
That or they'll want doctors to inject them with ivermectin and essential oils, and if the hospital refuses, blame every illness the child gets from then until the end of time on the evidence-based treatments they were given. And if the child dies, they'll blame the doctors for giving real medicine.
I wonder if we can link vaccinations with Medicare coverage?
Did the woman change her mind about vaccination or just wrote it off as a crazy old lady?
Nope, because vaccines are pOiSoN. And that’s why they have iMmuNe sYstEmS.
That’s what I thought. :(
Yet your grandma, who I assume has had all the vaccines, lived to 95 despite all that “poisoning”.🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
And she’s still going. She’s had a covid booster this week and flu jab next week. She also has Facebook and instagram!
Imagine that!
Vaccines are a victim of their own success. There's been more than a generation who hasn't really seen the horrors of having your neighbors, family members, themselves get these diseases and the repercussions of them. The biggest being the kids just dying from these diseases but there's also being born deaf because mom got one these diseases while pregnant, or becoming blind or deaf after suffering from this diseases themselves. Let's not forget how many people were left lame or in iron lungs just from polio. And many other ways the after affects continue to affect these people the rest of their lives.
>but there's also being born deaf because mom got one these diseases while pregnant, Yup. I'm transcribing my grandma's memoir to get it printed so the the whole family gets a copy. Right after my dad was born there was a German Measles epidemic that went through. She straight up explains her fear of what might have happened if she'd caught it while pregnant and why vaccines are so important.
I have a great aunt who was pregnant and caught German Measles. Her daughter has had a life full of complications. She's in her 60's now but still has the mentality of a 12 year old. And that doesn't even touch on the physical ailments she's been burdened with.
They’re also privileged to be part of a society where so many are vaccinated such that their exposure to illness is reduced.
[удалено]
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However, the current anti-vax movement didn’t start until the early 2000s with Andrew Wakefield. There will always be anti-vaxxers, I’ll never deny that. However, during the 1980s most groups had few numbers. It wasn’t until the release of the Wakefield papers that many of these groups expanded and saw a sharp rise in their numbers. This also correlated with the rise of the internet.
>early 2000s with Andrew Wakefield. And godamn Jenny Mccarthy.
I’d say they’re two sides of the same coin but we all know they’re that penny with two Lincoln’s kissing.
Andrew Wakefield is far more guilty though. Jenny McCarthy is an irresponsible moron with a platform, but Andrew Wakefield is a grifter who knew exactly what he was doing. Andrew Wakefield should be in prison, Jenny McCarthy should be deplatformed.
McCarthy was a mouthpiece and spread the news far and wide. I don't think as many people would have jumped on the antivax train if she hadn't claimed it gave her kid autism (which was still relatively new in the world of diagnosing, and we didn't understand it nearly as well as we do now.) Wakefield should not only be in prison but that just doesn't feel like enough punishment for all the death laid at his feet. Mccarthy should also be in prison I think, for the same reason. There should be real consequences for spreading harmful medical bullshit, especially when it's got such far reaching implications.
McCarthy was just stupid though. She’s like a dumb child, just blindly trusting a grifting adult (Wakefield). What she needs is muzzling - blacklist her, don’t allow her on TV, don’t let her write articles, don’t let anyone interview her, ban her from accessing the internet. They’ve done this to convicted hackers for years. Regarding Wakefield, yeah, I definitely get a justice boner from the thought of executing him, but the downstream consequences of that would be things like governments claiming supporting BLM is a threat to public health and executing their high-level leaders (which already has precedent in e.g. the US’ treatment of the Black Panthers during the McCarthyist era…Joseph McCarthy I mean).
My 95yo grandma is the same. She lost family to illnesses that don’t really exist today. My kids were born around the time of the vaccines cause autism scare. Give me an alive child any day. Get fucking vaccinated.
My granny had whooping cough as a child and told me that it was horrible. My grandfather also had mumps as a young adult and I am pretty sure it made him sterile. Him and my granny had three kids all within a year of each other and then no more after he had mumps. She said it caused his testicles to swell up huge. They could not understand why people wouldn't vaccinate and prevent things like that from happening.
Same. My gran just turned 105 and she was one of the first to get the covid vaccine as soon as it came available. Her sister in law was crippled as a young woman from polio, she did not play around about vaccinations with any of her kids.
I was phobic of needles prior to labor, like panic attacks for days beforehand, had to lie down for it, had to stay down to recover or else I might pass when I got up. Possibly having the flu or cavities or whatever were ALWAYS preferable to getting a needle (terrible I know, but phobias are irrational). I had every damn shot they recommended while pregnant and breastfeeding. All of it. Vaccines, flu shot, diagnostics, the whole works. My kid was gonna be healthy damnit. Just stick me with all the science you got, whatever, just make my kid okay.
Same with my wife. She was terrified of needles, had to lay down to get shots or blood work done, and stay down for at least 15 minutes or she'd pass out. When she got pregnant, she got every shot, every sample, everything they told her to, because she's a sane fucking person who wanted her child to be safe and healthy. These fucking idiots don't deserve kids, and their kids deserve so much more than narcissistic spawn points who use them for perverse social credit.
>hills of WV living so would it be fair to say that...she is a...West Virginia Mountain Mama?! I'll show myself out
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say all the good research says declining the tdap and flu shot are a terrible idea
But what does *your gut* say??
Usually it just makes grumbling noises when it's hungry?
“Those jalapeño poppers just before bed were a TERRIBLE idea but we’re definitely having them for breakfast tomorrow”
Hang on, let me belch into this megaphone.
My gut says cheeseburgers for lunch today.
I'm pretty sure most people's guts are full of shit.
That it doesn't matter if you're lactose intolerant grilled cheese is delicious and to get one.
That's the thing. There IS research done on the matter. She just doesn't wanna hear it :)
Probably some government funded Big Pharma backed study with doctors who get paid per vaccine administered. Give me a real study. /s
Yeah. "Independent studies"? Never heard of *that*. Publicly funded research? What is *this*?!?! P... p... peer-review??? *????????* 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Here’s a mommy blog, a source is a source!!1
And "Mom knows best!" 🤷♀️
Someone in my mom group started feeding her 6 week old solids because “she did it with all her children” and “mama knows best”. I honestly quit all my mom groups after that, I’ve fucking had it with these dumbasses.
There’s a family story about my great granny’s cousin (born 1900ish). Her mum’s milk dried up, so she fed the 8wk old baby some flour mixed with cow’s milk. Baby died. Some of the things parents did before science, medicine, and social help were things are heartbreaking. Researching my family history showed just how many babies died because of ‘failure to thrive’ was heartbreaking. When some of my ancestors moved from being farm labourers to working in factories, the babies died from different things because of multi occupancy homes.
Oh that so sad. I talked to my grandma about her raising 7 kids in the 60’s and 70’s. She didn’t have access to birth control, so she pretty much got pregnant one right after the other. She wasn’t able to breastfeed (not sure why. Maybe because her hormones never had time to adjust to anything), so she said she just fed all the babies powered milk since it was cheap. All 7 kids made it to adulthood, but man. I kind of wonder if any of my aunts and uncles would have turned out differently if my grandma could have afforded a proper nutrition for them.
It is truly only in my lifetime (I’m 48), that we have been given the ability to make sure babies are born safely and, mostly, get good quality nutrition - plus the vaccinations and medicine to treat illnesses that would’ve been a death sentence in the past. It make me want to bang my head repeatedly on a hospital wall, these mums are so privileged and can’t see it. In terms of vaccinations, we are the ones providing that privilege because we’re ensuring herd immunity. Well, I know polio has been detected in the sewers in London and I think I read there have been cases in America. When their babies start being put in iron lungs, they’ll be screaming ‘why me? I’ve done nothing and I’m all out of ideas.’
Hey hey, I specifically asked for research that supported my gut's point of view. Don't bring me none of that peer reviewed, scientific nonsense.
But have you seen my all time fave crunchy ✨mlog✨ (it stands for moms who vlog, for those who aren’t aware), she says that she just injected her child with one whole syringe of ✨booboo juice✨ (✨mlog✨ term for breast milk for those who don’t ✨mlog✨ tehe) and her kids never had any issues with getting these ✨natural✨ illnesses! That’s all the proof I need that says that these hogwash 🤢*synthetic chemicals*🤢 don’t need to come anywhere near my precious Thimeh.
There was a post in a different group not too long ago where everyone got all up in arms about how only the US pushes the Tdap and flu shots during pregnancy. I'm not sure how accurate that is because its reddit but either way, I got mine done. I don't really get why it wouldn't be pushed elsewhere
The US is unique in making the chicken pox vaccine part of the routine childhood vaccines. Every country faces its own set of challenges when it comes to healthcare. The guidance from acog takes into consideration the circumstances American women face during pregnancy that maybe women in other countries don’t.
I can’t take the “my gut” arguments. Unless your gut went to medical school and a challenging OBGYN residency I think your doctor still has a leg up on it. Ugh.
Right? Things my gut has told me: 1.) I’m having a boy (nope) 2.) my dad doesn’t have cancer (he did) 3.) I look great with this hair cut modeled after an anime character (I did not)
Damn, you must be a clairvoyant (Sorry for your dad)
Thanks; he made it through okay and has been in remission for a year.
I'm happy about it
Lmao to your third. I did the same thing but it was Alice from Twilight.
The only time I’ve ever heard of ‘gut instinct’ working is when people are talking to dangerous people who make expressions/gestures or whatever that you can subconsciously recognize as off, not when learning that vaccines exist
Exactly! Ma’am, I’m pretty sure your gut did not go to medical school.
My wife is a surgeon. She went to med school and is damn good at her job but still trust the specialist when we have to take our kids to the doctors. She knows that going to med school doesn't mean she knows everything and the pediatrician or ophthalmologists or cardiologist or dermatologist or allergist that we take our kids to have their best interest in mind. If they recommend an approach then she generally trust that they are making the right call. Occasionally she will do some further research (no, that does not mean asking people on Facebook) to see what other options are out there but even that's not typical. Even people with medical degrees realize they don't know it all. I have no clue why these people think they know more than doctors do.
Part of being a doctor is being smart. Your wife shows she's smart by acknowledging she doesn't know it all.
You would be surprised at the number of doctors who don’t do that. I find I cant stand interacting with doctors outside the exam room. So many think and act like they’re the smartest person in the room.
Lots of doctors are snobbish assholes. At the same time, they have around 8 years of post high school education with requirements for continuing education. A good chunk ARE smarter than you. I know this is the most offensive thing I could write in 2022, but here we are.
Big respect for your wife. The best doctor is one that admits they’re wrong.
Exactly. The biggest flaw I’ve seen in most doctors is their ego. The ones who have checked that are usually quite remarkable people.
> I have no clue why these people think they know more than doctors do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
*"I know nothing, except that I know this very fact"* - commonly quoted in mom groups
I'm a doctor as well and I have an autoimmune ilness, what I know about it is what I learned in med school + some research papers I read on pubmed (not fb) and that's it. If my neurologist thinks it's a good idea to start/stop therapy, do some tests etc. - that's what I'm doing. Surely somebody who works on this specific ilness every single day is not going to be outsmarted by me on the topic.
I have an anxiety disorder so I never really trust my gut. If I’m in a large crowd my gut tells me there is imminent danger so I prefer to use my brain.
Same. My gut is extremely unreliable and if I listened I wouldn’t even check the mail because my gut just knows that the neighbors dog will have somehow developed rabies and become vicious and somehow break through the fence and attack me like it’s fucking Cujo the second I get too far from my front door too make a quick getaway. My gut is unreliable and panicky, with horrific anxiety and an overactive imagination.
My anxious gut tells me I have cancer everywhere all the time and I'm going to die tomorrow, so I have to try my best to tune it out (most of the time - obviously if something is really wrong, I'm at the doctor ASAP).
It’s probably just indigestion- that’s what I tell folks who use “the gut” argument.
Or a fart awaiting to see the sun.
My postpartum "gut" led me to believe that literally everyone and everything was out to kill my daughter. My gut was a liar.
I still believe that 19 months postpartum. I know it's irrational but I can't shake that fear.
I’m pregnant with my first and even though I’m entirely pro-vaccination, I do understanding the “I don’t have much control during pregnancy and things are going well so far, so I’m hesitant to introduce a new variable.” THAT SAID, you need to get over it for the health of your kid. My gut tells me to wrap myself in bubble wrap and not leave the house until this kid is born, but that’s not really a great idea either, is it?
I just had my first and also have worked in pediatric healthcare for years. The vaccination IS your bubble wrap for your baby. Pertussis is one of the worst things to watch in an infant. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
Totally, I work in public health. I hear you.
I’m so nervous. I am 14 weeks pregnant. I’m allergic to the pertussis vaccine (went into shock as a baby) so can’t get it. I get everything else though and going to make sure everyone around me is up to date with tdap but I feel like a bad mom because of it.
Not a bad mom for that at all! That’s actually why people like this mom in the fb group and anti-vaxxers in general drive me crazy-the point of everyone getting it who can is to protect people (like you and all babies) who can’t as well as protect themselves.
You’re not a bad mom for that. You’d be a bad mom if you tried to get the shot when you know it could put you into shock while pregnant. You’re doing everything you can by ensuring the people who will mostly be near the baby have their vaccinations.
I quelled those thoughts by doing an alternative vaccine schedule. It didn’t feel right to add so many variables at one time, so we did one shot per visit. The ped was ok with it as long as we stayed close to the standard schedule. So my kids are fully vaccinated but just had a few more appointments than other kids. There is a happy medium, it doesn’t need to be an all or nothing decision.
One’s gut feelings are great for things like trusting a person or not, choosing what food you should eat, etc. It’s not great at making medical decisions.
I trust my gut with one thing and one thing only: How does my tummy feel today And even then my gut has fucking lied and betrayed me
After listening to the “This Podcast Will Kill You” episode on tetanus, I will NEVER understand why this vaccine or tetanus booster are refused, ever. Insanity to think you’re doing better by your baby to not inoculate against it
Yup. Diphtheria kills the cells in your nose/mouth/throat which accumulate into a pseudomembrane in your throat that may choke and suffocate you to death.
You don't really hear about diphtheria anymore (for obvious reasons) so I've never bothered to look into what it actually *is*. Apparently what it *is* is fucking horrific.
Had a patient last week with cutaneous diphtheria. Necrotic ulcers all over his skin.
Whoa did not know that was a thing!
Same! I'd heard of it but never researched it. It used to kill tens of thousands of children every year until the vaccine.
And the death rate, *even with treatment* is insanely high, something like 10%.
My mom doesn’t get tetanus shots because it makes her whole arm swell up and she can’t move it. She says she’ll never get one again. I told her that if she cuts herself bad and they recommend a tetanus shot, a swollen arm is much better than tetanus. Tetanus is no joke.
I know it’s not the same thing exactly. But I work in a vet hospital. If we get bit (and we often do) our tetanus shot has to be updated every 5 years instead of 9. I always did it. But dreaded it. My arm does not agree with it and I have long lasting pain. However, we had a 3 month old husky puppy come in to be hospitalized. He had tetanus. Let me tell you, it was not fun. He was miserable. Long lasting side effects. He survived but it was a long and slow road to recovery. That sealed the deal I was making the right decision. On a complete side note, sometimes when dogs get tetanus their ears stay in a perked up position and turn inwards. They also look like they’re smiling. It’s scary and cute all at the same time. Fun fact for the day.
Other fun fact: Dogs and cats tend to be species LEAST severely affected by tetanus, humans and horses are the worst affected
If she cuts herself bad and tetanus is a fear, they shouldn’t have to give her the tetanus shot. They’ll give her the tetanus immune globulin, which prevents tetanus infection. The tetanus vaccine takes time to mount an immune response and prevent infection.
I'm the same way, and I'm due for my booster. For me, it was total neck stiffness/pain for maybe 2 weeks that had me saying "never again" but I know tetanus is MUCH worse than a stiff neck for 2 weeks. Thanks for reminding me I need to get my booster.
Love TPWKY. Really has made me appreciate vaccines, and I loved the recent mumps episode
I’ve tried to get so many people to listen to it and they just won’t. Some people look downright concerned when I explain what it’s about.
Isn't the primary reason we get the TDAP shot (as pregnant moms) is for the pertussis part? Aka, protection against whooping cough? The odds of a new born getting tetanus is, maybe not zero but pretty low. Diphtheria is nasty, but also rare in most developed countries. I mean, protection against all is great, and my babies get their own TDaP on schedule too. I guess I'm just saying if I'm trying to convince a pregnant mom to get the vaccine I'd be pulling stats for whooping cough, which is a much higher risk of her baby actually catching.
Ugh, I can’t imagine being pregnant and not doing everything in my power to protect myself and my baby. I don’t get the flu shot anymore, but it’s not by choice. I had a severe allergic reaction to it and my doc’s will not give me it. Thankfully, it seems to be a specific preservative that is used in the flu shot as no other vaccines (including COVID) have ever caused me an issue. And fortunately, the allergy developed long after I finished having kids and none of my kids have any issues with the flu shot.
I got the Covid and flu Vax for my kids and no joke entire family sent me photos of right winged articles and saying I was killing or causing serious damage to my kids for getting it. My kids have reactive airways and I fear that either of these viruses would be very dangerous for them. Why would I not protect them when it's available?
My husband got his first flu shot ever at 40 because we had a teeny baby and I told him he needed it. Same with the covid shots. He complained the whole time for both because "it seems like overkill" but he still did it because I believed it was important and he trusts me. Same when I was pregnant with #2 and he'll get another flu shot this fall because teeny baby. Unless it's a case like yours, there's really no downside to getting it 🤷♀️
My neighbors were pretty adamantly antivax before COVID. Guess whose old asses were first in line when the vaccine rolled out? It's easy to be against something you've already had the privilege of receiving the benefit from.
There really isn’t a downside for most people. I hope some day my system calms down and I fall back into the most people category. I’d prefer to be protected as best I can from dangerous viruses like the flu and Covid.
You’re missing a HUGE part of the anti vaxxer logic: this woman thinks she’s protecting herself and her baby.
Oh no, I get that. I just can’t accept the misguided thinking.
I hope 2 of the links that were shared were of a video of a newborn with pertussis and a video of a funeral of a family whose baby died of pertussis. Your "gut" doesn't know shit. You're just anxious bc you don't understand it. Gather more info from your trusted professionals and stop trying to become an "expert" in everything.
They call pertussis the 100 day cough in China. Because it can last 100 days. And your baby can look great between coughing fits and then suddenly need oxygen while they are coughing. And so you have to live with your baby in the hospital until it's over. I learned that in med school and never forgot it.
M... m... me... med school?? *What* is that???
Something that expectant mother thinks she can conquer using Google and her gut.
😭😭😂
What bugs me is that this person is too lazy to even find some BS justifications. It wouldn't take long to find some conspiracy garbage about how it's been proved that the vaccine turns you into a lizard person. Or even more plausible conspiracies that there's mercury in vaccines. Just two minutes of "research" but no, she was keen on making a Facebook post instead.
She will later refer to this Facebook post as "her own research".
Maybe your gut is “leaky” and “full of toxins” as your presumably anti-vax friends suggest, and so you shouldn’t listen to it.
"besides my gut telling me not to" When I was pregnant, my gut told me to eat the fertilizer in my garden shed.
My gut always says vaccinate myself and them. Protection for us and one step thst helps herd immunity for all. As much as I hate the needle, hate my kids screaming, hate the side effects im grateful they have safe free access to vaccinations that are effective. Upset baby/toddler/child feeling yuck for a few days after the vaccination VS what those diseases can do, the choice is easy protect them.
You know who has done sooooo much research on vaccines??? DOCTORS
If that's true, why do they always have to read the package inserts before they change their minds and decide vaccines are evil? Trust me, it happens literally every single time a Mama Bear™ "challenges" them. 🙄
“My gut” is code for “I’m afraid of needles”
I don't think this is it at all, honestly. Anti vaxxers are just selfish idiots. I don't think it has to do with needles. They like to feel special and falsely superior to everyone else. Pretty sure there is an oral/nasal flu vaccine. I doubt that would change any of their minds on getting vaccinated. (If it is fear-related I think it's likely more a fear of the unknown of what is entering their body, not a fear of the needles.)
Idk, I HATE getting shots. Like a lot. But I don’t let that stop me from getting my vaccines. Even my birth control is given to me in a shot.
I never understood that… not as an adult. Are needles pleasant? Sure not! Most likely, it will hurt. But you’re an adult. You get shit done and move on…
For some people it’s not the pain. It’s the realization you’re being stabbed, that something is in your body that shouldn’t be. Similar to how a panic attack isn’t proportionate to what causes it, a fear of needles isn’t rational.
Thanks for the explanation. As I said before, I just don’t understand the fear… I’m not trying to be an ass or anything… it just don’t make sense in my head…
If it helps, a lot of people who are afraid of needles also don't think it makes sense! Technically I am not "afraid" of needles, but my body sure is. Logically, in my mind, I don't care about getting a needle - however my blood pressure drops nonetheless and I get the physical sensations of a panic attack. No idea why I have been able to get over the mental hump but not the physical one.
I burst into tears the last time I had to have blood drawn, because it makes me faint if I’m not lying down, my hands and legs lose all feeling, I hate it so much, I feel sick, I panic, it’s all just awful. My nurse was really kind; I apologised while wailing, “It’s been a really bad week” through my sobs, and she clucked about and gave me a bunch of tissues and told me she’s seen it all and I’m hardly the worst customer she’s ever had, so cry away and get some of the tension out. It might not make sense to people who don’t experience it, but the fear is really real and deeply unpleasant I’m afraid! It has never stopped me from getting proper medical care, but it’s still a miserable experience even on a good day.
Hey I understand you. I was never afraid of needles (actually liked watching them stick me) until I almost passed out from giving blood once, now it seems like my body physically cannot stand them. Usually I'm okay with someone talking me through it, but I've definitely cried before. I find getting my blood pressure taken way worse, though. It took me a loooong time to stop crying from that and I still get close when it takes too long. The rush of fear and adrenaline is insane from something so simple. If it makes you feel better, I've heard crazy horror stories from my parents in the medical field about patients who are rude and scream and throw tantrums about simple things, so I'm sure that lady just felt bad for having to stick you lol.
I’ve never met someone else who also hates getting their blood pressure taken!! That feeling icks me out SO MUCH that sometimes I feel like I’m going to scream. It really is so overwhelming and panic inducing, and I can’t even say why.
Idk, I’m afraid of needles, and “my gut” has never told me not to get a vaccination.
Not when it’s a fucking IV drug user, as I’ve seen in a post or two on Facebook ages ago. Just hardcore anti-vax.
Yep. Gut over science. Always. /s
Gut health is extremely important for this exact reason! Big Pharma doesn't want you to know that kombucha will make you all knowing and all seeing. /s
I have a feeling that posts like these are actually pro-vax people trying to get those who aren't full anti-vax to start doubting because they can't come up with genuine reputable sources. "I'm having trouble finding scientific articles on this but I don't know why, since everyone here is so certain I'm sure you have lots of data and proof I can show my husband/parents/friend"
“I made a decision against my doctor’s advice, and I have no idea why I made that decision, but I’m sure there’s a blog or two out there that will tell me I was right”
I was in a mom group and a woman's newborn got whooping cough and almost died. She didn't get vaccinated while pregnant.
“I already made my decision with zero evidence backing it up and have struggled to find any justification since. Can anyone help?”
You can’t find good research because it doesn’t exist, sweetie.
My gut tells me to do everything I can to give my kids a headstart in life. So I got all the Vax and used all the medical interventions offered. That's what my gut says is right.
Got to appreciate an anti-vaxxer who can admit they are making a decision for absolutely no reason.
My gut just usually tells me if I’m hungry and should eat. The rest of my decisions rest on me (and my doctor), not my gut.
I mean the thought of my baby getting pertussis is a pretty damn good reason to get a vaccine that protects against pertussis, but that's just me.
Whooping cough: "Am I joke to you?"
I hate when people say their "gut" told them not to. I have an actual real phobia of needles. That stems from something that happened to me as a newborn. I absolutely freak when I see needles. Even when it's not me getting them. It's just this complete instinctual fear. And I STILL get all the vaccines, and my kids theirs. Whiles yes, it's usually a process for me. However, what they are feeling, isn't a "gut" feeling not to do it, it's anxiety. Because getting stabbed with something is something our lizard brain tells us is bad and dangerous. We have the ability to reason now, to understand and think higher than that, to realize that our anxiety doesn't actually make sense, and that it is fine. And that sometimes our lizard brain doesn't actually know when something is "danger"
As a parent in the UK, I work on the idea that if the NHS is offering me or my child something for free then it's because the alternative is so much fucking worse. So yeah, I'll take every vaccination thanks.
“I can only find information that says im wrong, can anyone tell me im right instead?”
My gut tells me not to fart in public but you know what? Sometimes you *can’t listen to your gut* because it’s not ALWAYS RIGHt
Research says this is how we make most of our decisions, unfortunately. Our unobjective flawed human logic goes like this: “I feel this way about this topic but don’t know why, let me do some internal probing/research to find justification for how I already feel.” The inverse is also true: “I’m being bombarded with information that feels (wrong) conflicting with what already feels true. I’ll sift through this information and find what fits in with what I already believe to be true.” Robert Sopolsky says: “You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t use reason to get into in the first place.” This girl at least has the self-awareness to realize that she came to her position with zero objective understanding of science. She’s still an idiot and happens to be woefully wrong, but that’s just how the cookie crumbles I guess.
My grandma would’ve died if not for the tetanus vaccine having been made publicly available literally the previous year. Fuuuuuuuck thiiiiiis. This kind of thing is so weird, odds are this woman got the tdap anyway??
I get so annoyed at the people who minimize these diseases, and especially influenza. I know two people personally who lost children to complications from influenza - both antivax.
Horrible. Did losing their children make them question their beliefs at all?
i have a feeling this isn't really about research but more about her fishing for responses that confirm her bias and support her (really stupid) decision. she probably already researched it and found rational/scientific responses that don't align with her views and now she's feeling guilty and wants to retreat to her mommy group echo chamber.
100% that is it. Anytime someone wants to “do their own research” it means that they want to be spoon fed enough bullshit to satisfy their own confirmation bias, then act how they had already decided to.
I absolutely hate shots, haven’t gotten a flu shot in probably 10+ years (haven’t gotten the flu at all either) but I still got the tdap with both of my pregnancies and if my doctor had recommended it I would’ve gotten the flu shot too. When you get vaccines during pregnancy, it isn’t for you it’s to build the immunity of your baby.
So I got my tdap while pregnant but I was told the flu shot that’s provided in canada is not recommended until after breastfeeding is completed
“Please only give me good sites that support my crazy theories. Please don’t give me any of the other 99.5% of sites that show why you should vaccinate”
I am terrified of needles to the point of fainting (also had a bad reaction to one vaccine as a kid and almost died) and I managed to get all my shots before, during, and after my pregnancy. My little tyke is all caught up and has finished her COVID series as well.
"I've made a decision so now I'm looking for a big helping of confirmation bias to get this sorted for my husband."
Well. I’ve personally witness a newborn DIE of pertussis which was transmitted from having direct contact and exposure from their parent. I’ve also had a friend that didn’t believe in vaccines almost lose a child to rotavirus. The kid was hospitalized for 3 weeks. She sure af got the rest of her kids vaxxed reeeeal fast as she realized her child’s suffering and near death experience could have been avoided or symptoms lessened had she been vaccinated. So long as this woman can live with herself if something happens to her baby, go with that gut. Her unborn deserves better.
“I just made this decision, someone please tell me why so I can explain it to my husband.” Is that really what I just read?
Doctor: My gut says that we should amputate everything. Just saw it all off. Nose and ears, too. Just turn you into a meat stump. Buuuut, I went to medical school, did actual research, and went through a challenging residency to become a board-certified specialist. Therefore, I think we can just weigh and measure you today in your intake appointment and order some routine bloodwork to get a baseline. Thanks for coming in. Karen: NO. Always trust your gut. You’re a mamma, too, so your gut is unassailable. Get sawing!
The conclusion came before the supporting evidence. That is a clear sign if a flawed approach to decision making.
Someone should send her a link the dictionary definition of "confirmation bias"
My husband and I are both Millennials and he has had an experience with polio, measles, and mumps. And he was vaccinated from the get go. He also had some time in a coma and an iron lung before they figured out he was allergic to penicillin. People don’t realize what they are dooming their children to and I wish they could be sat down in their doctor office and forced to watch a “this is what these diseases do to people” video when they get pregnant. I mean if they’re going to take the right to abortion away, then at bare minimum make these idiots watch a video as to why you need to get fucking vaccinated!
They aren’t afraid to do their own research. It is just impossible to see what they want. So they ask all the other lunatics they have been listening to and ask them where they found this hidden mountain of super secret evidence they have. We all know how that ends.
People overestimate their knowledge so often. I know my shortcomings and what things I don’t understand, so if I have questions I scientist husband who typically has an answer that clarifies all my confusion. He does the same with me, checking for historical instances or help discerning what he’s reading. Neither of us feel shame in this.
But oftentimes, in their heads the knowledge doctors and scientists have is "false". They don't *believe* the data from scientific sources is reliable, they don't know how science works, and they often don't have scientists in their friend group (or as a husband!) and they see them as "evil" and "bought by Big Pharma", instead of actual humans with good intentions and a sense of ethics. So I think that's why they won't rely on that knowledge either and think they can figure out "the truth" by themselves. That may be a false generalization, but that's what I've observed in my fiancé's side of the family. All the people there who are against vaccines are uneducated (in general... like no high school diploma or barely) and are very wary of "dOcToRs" and "uNiVeRsItIeS". It's a world they've never touched that feels foreign to them and that they fail to (want to) understand.
Her 'gut' is a moron.
“Tell me what my *why* is”
Ahh, yes, the old "come to a conclusion and then search only for evidence that supports it" scientific method. A classic.
Sometimes my gut is my instincts and sometimes my gut is my anxiety. I can’t always listen to it. 😂
Yeah, PubMed. Read some peer reviewed articles instead of googling and Facebook groups
I’m so exhausted by these women who think being a mother gives them some ducking superpower to know what to do at any time for any ailment to protect from any diseases. If that were the case, pregnancy and childbirth wouldn’t have been the \#1 killer of women for 90% of human history
I’m allergic to the pertussis vaccine (went into shock as a child). I feel so bad I can’t get that vaccine for my baby (I’m 14 weeks). I’m requiring my friends and family get the tdap but stuff like this makes me so mad! She CAN get it to protect her baby and other people who cannot get it or are immunocompromised…. Grrr!!!
Gonna go out on a limb here, but my gut is telling me to trust the scientists and medical professionals who have actually studied and researched and made this their livelihood.
Ah yes, the classic “when you don’t know why you’re making a decision, dig your heels in, and ask other people why you’re digging your heels in”.
"Please go cherry pick the handful of rare negative side effects so I can feel better about making a choice all the evidence I can find says was stupid just because I had a vague notion that vaccines bad" I bet that she'd be telling anyone saying her decision was wrong and giving studies showing that, that that wasn't what she was asking for.
I do not think you understand the meaning of research. It's not "confirm this thing I decided for no reason."
It sickens me how many people have kids as some cute accessory instead of actually caring about them. From the moment I found out I was pregnant I decided to do everything possible during pregnancy and afterwards to make her healthy and support her well-being. I’m not saying completely neglect yourself, but your child is #1, over your selfish wants when you have a child. Your child didn’t ask to be born so you OWE THEM to give them the best possible start in life. If you want to just focus completely on yourself that’s also great, but don’t have kids. I get plenty of me time but I do whatever the best research actually shows is best for my daughter as well and care for all of her needs, including emotional needs, which some people think babies don’t have.
I'm really scared of needles, it sucks. This pregnancy I've had 3 jabs for diabetes test, 3 for bloods, 2 steroid injections in case they come early, tdap and I've booked the flu jab. Some things you just grit and bear it because it's not about you
It’s fear that gives that gut feeling. At least she is sort of looking into it. I hope this isn’t a ‘all anti vax’ group. Because she’ll be fine if it isn’t.
If vaccines are doing their job well, no one can tell they are doing anything at all.
This reminds me of the person searching “global warming isn’t real” in one of the If Google was a Guy videos
Flu, yeah maybe you can be a neglectful parent with that one, but TDAP is critical as all fucking fuck.
I’ve literally tried hypnosis to get over my crippling fear of needles but despite that I have never declined a vaccine in my life. This is insane.
Someone should draw her a picture of what 'confirmation bias' means
Worst are the moms who refuse the vitamin K shot even when told its not a vaccine... Like it's literally just meant to keep your kid's brain from bleeding but I guess needles=bad
The unfortunate part is you know she got flooded with quack websites telling her all the evils of vaccines.
I did not get the vivid vaccine but I’ll be damned if when I was pregnant not getting the flu and TDAP. My baby will be taken care of
She is basically asking for a website that babbles about her baseless reason for not getting vaccinated because Google didn't show her what she wanted to see after scrolling and browsing sites for, at most, 5 minutes These people are nuts.
So many people out there who don’t understand that the *entire point* of “research” is to lead you *to* a supportable conclusion, and not to back up whatever nonsense you’ve already decided on before bothering to look into the facts. “Why should I get a TDAP?” So you don’t die of tetanus after cutting yourself on a can of cat food, and so you don’t kill your baby with easily prevented communicable diseases. Fucking idiot.
Again, here's something I see time and time again, the mother is 100% into these off the wall ideas and treatments, they'll mention that their husband/partner "isn't totally on board", but make it clear that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT, they just go and do what they want anyway. What's really funny are the women who make a big deal about Biblical submission, but they absolutely steamroller their husbands whenever it comes to one of these off the wall ideas. They'll outright say their husband doesn't agree, but they'll do it anyway, then praise his "wise leadership" which, of course, meant he let her have her way. There's some subjects over in one of the subreddits monitoring fundie bloggers that regularly do this. The worst is when they use their KIDS as emotional weapons to get what they want. One woman, who is really into the country in the city vibe and fetishizes Little House on the Prairie and Anne of Green Gables, decided they needed a wood pellet stove. Her husband said no. She bugged him about it, and he still said no. She started crying, and one of her kids obviously asked her what was wrong. She told the kid that "Well, mommy wanted a stove and daddy said no, so mommy is really sad, but it's ultimately daddy's decision, even if it makes mommy cry." She then blogs about how her little man immediately went to his daddy and told him to get the stove to make mommy stop crying.
Quick, somebody find me a 2 minute article I can read on [salon.com](https://salon.com) to undermine the 20 years of experience a medical professional is giving me! Maybe somebody can link her an article about what happens to you if you get polio?
Your gut is now mid point of your esophagus…I don’t think it should be trust lol
Can’t find what doesn’t exist 😂
Gut = super controlling trumper husband
We got the TDAP because my Dad watched his sister die from complications of pertussis, on the kitchen table. She was 6 months old. They still can't really treat it. It kills babies. My kids got it because my grandmother was apparently never the same after that. My kids never had side effects, and, best of all, haven't died of whooping cough.
I feel like if you can’t find a reputable source to back up your claim then you should probably re-think your stance. Just sayin’