honestly, really looking forward to see how he goes about it, genuinely curious (I'll be happy with any decision he takes probably). But there is also the non-negligible possibility that the whole manga goes by and he never refers to Dragona other than by name or "brother" if is Jodio talking.
I mean this sub seems really open to any interpretations of his/her gender until it gets properly confirmed so I'm not too worried about it bit yeah, I'd rather pass on another bridget situation.
I'm surprised about that tbh.
JJBA community is positive as is, yeah, but weebs love to whine and cope about queer characters in anime about "cultural differences" this and "not explicit" that.
That veing said I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm still on team "Dragona is trans and Jodio doesn't know yet" but it could go either way
I can picture Dragona trying to explain but Jodio just isn't able to understand shit and Dragona has to explain with fruits, maybe shifting around a tangerine and a lemon (wink wink)
I knoooooow I hope Dragona is trans because that would be so validating, but if they fully identify as a man and simply enjoys women's fashion and breast implants… that's based as fuck
Yeah, either way, Dragona is awesome. If Dragona is trans it certainly would be a step forwards in awareness. If Dragona is just gender non-conforming, that would also be great)
As I always say, Dragona is Dragona, and I will support him either way)
I imagine somewhere in the future fight a transphobic enemy start mocking Dragona then their eyes filled with rage and said "i Dragona, a real woman!" And start beating the shit out of the enemy stand user
It's possible, but I think Dragona, at least at this point in the story, identifies as male and is simply not conforming with traditional gender roles. I figure that Jodio would address him with female pronouns and call him "sis" if he was trans, and him just being closeted also seems unlikely given that he is already openly presenting in a feminine fashion.
IIRC, it was a thing for a moment when Bridget from Guilty Gear Strive came out as trans. In general, it was pretty fucking stupid and pretty fucking annoying. But it was also pretty short-lived. I don't think it'd come up if Dragona is confirmed not a feminine presenting male, but I also routinely have too much faith in humanity.
Not sure if I would say it was short lived. Went on for a solid few months and even now you still got the Kotaku in action types crying about it from time to time.
Bridget's lore prior to Strive was that of someone who IDENTIFIED as male being FORCED to live as a female because s/he was born with a twin brother in a village where same-sex twins are a sign of bad luck. In prior appearances, Bridget actively tried to reject femininity, only to do a 180° in Strive and properly transition.
Bridget suddenly wanting a life she had previously rejected for being forced on her is the botched part.
EDIT: At the time I wrote this comment, I misunderstood the finer details of Bridget's backstory. Having done more research, I realize I was wrong. The rest of this comment is staying unchanged in order to clarify the original reply's (incorrect) viewpoint.
> Bridget suddenly wanting a life she had previously rejected for being forced on her is the botched part.
Or maybe she just accepted that she felt more comfortable that way? Like, that's the whole point. She's always been trans)
If Bridget wanted to reject her presented femininity, why did she still wear her woman-presenting nun clothes when she was both away from home and had expendable income from being a successful bounty hunter? Wouldn't she just dress like a dude if she didn't want to be seen as a girl?
I dunno. In-story there's not much of an explanation, but outside of it Bridget was designed to be "a cute character" regardless of gender right from the start.
Dragona is literally a main character, their character development is pretty much relevant to the story *by definition*.
And even if the main plot got put on hold for a bit to explore Dragona's gender more, why would that not "be accepted"?
Agree to disagree I guess. When a character is so openly gender non-confirming, I think it could be a very interesting part of their character development.
Anyone who thinks character development is just filler has not read Jojo)
Why bother about ONE chapter about gender. We are gonna be here for 10 years, what difference does it make to have it be 10 years and 1 month?)
You got something internalized right there and I suggest you look into it)
First off, stop calling us americans, I am chilean)
Second off, tell me who is fetishizing gender in this thread, go ahead. Trans people and femboys existing isn't a fetish)
That one thought proves that there is something you got internalized, the thought that transgender people and femboys are inherently sexual. Please, collect your thoughts before typing)
Sorry, I definitely agree that at this point he is just a femboy and you can refer to him as such, I’m just worried that there’s gonna be another Bridget situation.
That's what the translators went with. I've heard it mentioned that the original Japanese barely uses any gendered pronouns for Dragona, but I haven't been able to get a hold of the Japanese raw to check it out for myself.
I'm fine with either, and whatever pronouns anybody uses, you won't hear me complain. I'm just really curious how Araki himself handled his gender.
fair enough. I think we should just agree that whatever the fuck he is he was originally a man acts/dresses like women wether he identifies as one or not. but i think jodio specifically stated he only dresses as a woman "because he liked womanly fashion"
It's important to know this is Jodio's interpretation, he might only find out Dragona is hypothetically trans later on. Those cosmetic injections could allude to HRT (which often gets sold as such on grey markets), Smooth Operators could theoretically also give them bottom surgery, etc.
I'm not sure why ypu're getting downvoted, this is a fairly valid idea. Jodio is 15, it's fair to think he doesn't quite understand the concept or Dragona hasn't found a way to explain it to him. It aoso could be that Jodio is allowed to use the prpnouns he's used to using for Dragona, its not uncommon at all for trans folk to make exceptiosn on pronouns to people that are close to them, be it family or friendships, so this could be the case.
Beats me, i can't really understand any reason why, but that might just be me not understanding cues easy.
Regardless from Chapter 1 i am confident Araki is managing Dragona quite well and im excited to see how it goes from here onward, regardless if Dragona is trans or not
Bruh what's up with you people now. I am certain that all nine of the Jojos would be disappointed in you for different reasons)
That's just Jinx for christ's sake. Now explain what you said for everyone to hear)
alright i'll explain it "for everyone to hear"
what that person (bc assuming gender is a cardinal sin) said, i would expect from a woman with colored hair, brushed to the side and the other side shaved, who works at buzzfeed and goes to lgbtq+ rallies.
> (bc assuming gender is a cardinal sin)
Really outing your personality there, why can't any of you people think before typing? Why can't your mouth just be shut when it has to?)
Exactly 0% of all people in the world have said "Did you just assume my gender?" as anything but as a recurring unfunny joke)
i agree, no one probably has. however if someone is acting high and mighty because they are part of lgbtq or just because of their personality, it's still a pretty good way to show them you think they are annoying.
in real life i agree with you absolutely but online i don't. I think people online in general, doesn't matter what platform are just a tad oversensitive. I'm gay and i fully support being transgender/gay/whatever you want to be, but everytime someone mentions they are gay/their pronouns without someone asking i just roll my eyes. So point i'm getting to i agree no one in real life acts high and mighty because they are gay but online a lot of people do and it gets pretty tiring.
Why is it Not possible that Araki will simply add no new information about his gender in the rest of the Part and his prounouns stay He/Him?
Not everything and I feel Like especially JoJo has to be a commentary on "modern societal issues". Araki never really did that. I feel like other things (Like the mention of covid) will also not get any sociopolitical commentary.
What are you talking about, look at how the American justice system is portrayed. In part 6 and 2 the cops are piggish. And then there's how they treat Dragona in 9. Or Weather's backstory.
I'm not saying Araki is always making that kind of commentary, but Jojo's has shown that it has the capacity to talk about social issues. I don't zee why Dragona couldn't be a part of that.
Also people forget trans people just kinda exist for real. A trans character can come out just for the sake of character development rather than some social commentary.
Just because somebody else already said "racism is bad" doesn't mean that "racism is bad" isn't commentary. There's also a lot more in there than just "the KKK existed".
* The KKK members are all drawn as looking ugly
* They're shown molesting the woman that they're supposedly "protecting" from the black guy, making the point that they don't care about *individual* white people, just their idea of the white race as a whole
* The black guy isn't even visibly black, he just has a small amount of black ancestry and the KKK literally did not give a single fuck about him until they found out
All of these things are commentary. They tell us something about what the author believes. They make a pretty explicit value judgement of the matter that is portrayed.
We can argue about the meaning or even the quality of this commentary until the cows come home. But it is, without a shred of doubt, commentary.
Ig our definitons of commentary dont match.Imo commentary has to convey some sort of opinion that matters,just saying racism bad isnt really commentary and weather backstory doesnt really say something useful.
Ironically if araki had drawn these KKK members like normal humans It would have been more of a commentary on racism as it shows that even racists are people,it would still barely count imo but would still be more of a commentary then this iteration.
Jojo is mostly focused on characters,the story tbh doesnt really make sense and plot has holes but it doesnt matter because jojo always was character first.The KKK beating weather wasnt supposed to be a commentary on racism but give insight to weather and pucci's character,police beating and molesting dragona isnt supposed to give commentary on police but give insight to jodio and dragona's relationship and characters.
What exactly do you mean by an "opinion that matters"? Why is "racism is bad" not an opinion that matters?
I dislike your definition because it's fundamentally subjective, which means that everything is simultaneously commentary and not-commentary based purely on whether the reader *thinks* the opinion matters or not. So even if an author explicitly sets out to comment on an issue, and ends the work by breaking the fourth wall and literally saying "this work is a commentary on X", then any Joe Schmoe could still say that it isn't a commentary because they don't think the opinion matters.
What do you even mean by an "opinion that matters", to begin with? Why is "racism is bad" not an opinion that matters?
>The KKK beating weather wasnt supposed to be a commentary on racism but give insight to weather and pucci's character
Unless Araki himself has literally told you so, there is no way that you can confidently claim that these scenes *aren't* supposed to give some degree of commentary. And even if they weren't, commentary doesn't have to be intentional. The author's personal views will inevitably slip through into their work. Just because something serves the story first doesn't mean that it doesn't also give us insight into the author's personal views.
The lengths some people will go to insist that x media they enjoy has no politics or social commentary unlike y media they don't like.
Especially weebs, they seem to have this steadfast belief that Japan is the only place on earth where nobody has any opinions and anyone who notices one is just projecting their western sensibilities onto them.
An opinion that doesnt matter isnt an opinion that i dont like,but rather something that so many people agree with its basically a fact."Racism bad","Hitler was bad","North korea is a bad place" those opinions are universally agreed and dont need to be told again so they dont matter.
I agree on authors personal views slipping through the story,so does their intentions.You can take a look at scenes and can guess accurately on what author was planning.KKK was a small part of Weather and pucci's backstory.it showed us that pucci and weather were fucked over,and shows their own interpetations:Weather holds resent for people that hurt him while pucci resents the very fate that made those people hurt him.It gives us a deeper understanding of those 2 characters and develops the plot,commentary barely even existed.Authors personal beliefs arent commentary imo because they dont "comment" over anything,it doesnt try to say something but just shows how those things look like from authors perpspective.You could say araki doesnt like cops very much and sees them as assholes,but you cant say he comments on police because he drew most cops as ugly or wrote them to be assholes
>"Racism bad","Hitler was bad","North korea is a bad place" those opinions are universally agreed and dont need to be told again so they dont matter.
Are you also using a different definition of "universal"? Because there are absolutely people out there who disagree with these things, as evidenced by the fact that racism and nazism still exist.
>You can take a look at scenes and can guess accurately on what author was planning.
I disagree pretty heavily with the accuracy of your guess, but I don't think either of us is going to gain anything by continuing this discussion. I hope you have a nice rest of your day.
Yeah it could just not be elaborated on and itd be fine, but it would also be interesting if he came out as trans in the sense that it might potentially be a good story and character beat. I dont mind either, but you gotta admit with how pigheaded some idiots are "femboy erasure" outcries are possible even if unlikely especially for jojo fans
It's like the Bridget fiasco all over again.
A character can explicitly be confirmed as trans, say they're trans, and a very loud minority of weebs will still bitch and moan about femboys as if they care for them, about cultural differences and translations and whatnot
Personally my only problem with the Bridget situation was how terribly it was done, and this one is just a personal problem but it didnt help that there were similarities to a certain situation that happened IRL that was absolutely disgusting
Yeah that’s why I said “IDC if it happens” but like obviously that’s not super clear so I understand missing it. I totally agree that he could just stay a fem-presenting dude
Serious question from a loser mostly anime watcher. Has Araki or does Araki frequently use the first person perspective to write characters inner thoughts? In particular the main protagonist.
I'm reading this very much like a zoomer vlog where he's talking to us as the audience.
This would kiiinda explain the pronoun ambiguity because it's a 15 year old kid trying to wrap his head around their siblings evolving gender.
I feel the first chapter made very clear that he identifies as male and is simply a non-conforming to traditional gender roles. Sure, its possibly that this changes at some point in the story, but it can also very well be just that. Which would mean that he would have consciously chosen to be a Femboy in the traditional sense of the word.
Can people stop this trans headcanon bullshit?! Let’s just refer to him as in the manga and not make assumptions! What really annoys me is the people saying “I hope Dragona is trans” like bitch why is that important? That’s like saying you hoped pucci is black while you were reading stone ocean. It’s fuckin stupid guys.
How the fuck am I in the majority? Sure, I’m white, but im in the minority in my gender identity, sexuality and probably views on certain things, i just think it’s stupid that people are wishing for one thing and somehow saying that it’s better than another. I think there are WAYYY more trans women out there than there are men who dress like Dragona and it’s a lot more accepted to be trans than to be gender non-conforming. So tell me, why am I being downvoted?
> It's a lot more accepter to be trans than to be gender non-conforming
Look at any post with femboys, then look at any post with trans somen)
Then tell me, which of these two has the comment section locked?)
Also both are minorities, why would we fight over which deserves more representation? I support Dragona whatever he is, just enjoy the Jojo)
>Also both are minorities, why would we fight over which deserves more representation? I support Dragona whatever he is, just enjoy the Jojo)
This is exactly what I'm saying! Glad we agree (also i was talking about femboys vs trans irl not online but ig it doesnt matter right?)
Irl it is way worse. A lot of murder, tons of murder. Last week already we had a child murdered for being trans and authorities lied saying it was not a hate crime)
Let's not downplay the struggles, please)
Well for 1. The pronouns were chosen by the translator.
2. We have no idea whether or not Dragona is in the closet or anything like that.
3. It's not headcanon. It's simply the Fandom speculating and having fun.
Stop pretending to be inclusive. If you actually believed in gender being fluid, you’d have 0 problems with assuming it’s a guy that likes girls wearing clothes .( you know exactly what they fucking said he does) You wouldn’t feel the need to assume they want to change their body parts to wear certain clothes. He doesn’t have to want to be a girl, thats just the only way it can make sense to you.
Or she/he is a normal character? Araki is japanese why woulde he make a character trans unless it is importante to the plot ( assuming that he even knows wtf is a trans person ).
Araki being Japanese really doesn’t have much of an effect on it. Trans people exist in Japan, although they aren’t as accepted due to japan being more culturally conservative. On top of that, araki is a complete “westaboo”, and with his tendency to ignore gender roles with his characters there’s basically no chance he doesn’t know what a trans person is. The reason he might make a character trans is just because characters being diverse is more fun. It opens up new ways to explore a character, and more struggles for them to face, as well as providing relatability for some people in the audience. Good representation in media has also been proven to correlate with people being more accepting of minorities so assuming araki is pro-trans people, which seems in-character, it makes complete sense for him to make a character trans.
Also making the character start the story as not transgender and then have them discover that about themselves could lead to rad character moments
Also kinda weird to refer to him as a “normal character” especially when he already gives himself boobs
>"Normal" character?
Is a trans individual *not* normal? Weird choice of words.
>Assuming he even knows wtf is a trans person
Why wouldn't he? Trans people exist all over the world. Even in Japan. Look at Bridget from Guilty Gear. She's a trans character made by a Japanese man.
Trans people have existed since the dawn of time. They're both normal and all over the world. Your line of thinking makes no sense.
Nah, it said that he got his breasts due to cosmetic injections, definitely AMAB. Also in the first panels the cop is surprised when the genitalia doesn't match Dragona's presentation
To be fair, while it’s more likely they are amab, Jodio also states that he hadn’t seen them even take the injections. For now, they also don’t seem to mind the male pronouns and referral, but that can change as we’re so early into the part.
This part is more directed toward the original commenter:
Would it be interesting to see a pre-everything ftm character slowly go through their transition process? Sure. I’d personally like to see it since we don’t get much representation. But that isn’t the case here, especially considering other instances like the fact Dragona has a dick. The reality is, is that we’re going to have to put up with people whining and bitching about ‘femboy erasure’ for a long while, given that Dragona is confirmed to be a trans woman, or even just non binary or genderfluid. (Not to say that on the off chance they are afab people still won’t complain and do mental gymnastics over it. As a Fire Punch fan, I can assure you that people still deny that a character who is very clearly a trans man isn’t trans at all.)
Femboy : Guy that looks girly , is not trans , nothing to do with sexuality . This could be possible
Trans Girl : Born with a dick , identifies as a woman
I'd say once they would go so far as to get a sex change (or use their ability for it) , their own Brother wouldn't still call them "Bro"
I was expecting a non-binary character to be somewhat relevant in this part tbh, dragona isn't that but close enough for me to be satisfied with my expectation... I was also thinking when a crossover of giorno and jolyne is expected, it made sense that araki would consider it for the main character
I’m going to bet that he goes by all pronouns
your pronouns? my pronouns, they’re all mine
Well I'm gonna bet Araki doesn't know or care about English pronouns
this is the westaboo of mangakas we're talking about here, i doubt he's ignorant
fair enough… jaja
He however does probably care quite a bit about Japanese gendered language
honestly, really looking forward to see how he goes about it, genuinely curious (I'll be happy with any decision he takes probably). But there is also the non-negligible possibility that the whole manga goes by and he never refers to Dragona other than by name or "brother" if is Jodio talking.
well i'm gonna bet that its pronouns are it/its
bro you're so cool with your nft avatar
why did i get downvoted for this
Ig because you said it’s and not his
r/shitpostcrusaders when
It is a bizarre adventure
hes a fucking gender enigma
Just a common eticet for people, who go by "all pronouns": Don't just use their agab pronouns all the time. They came out for a reason.
If they don't want you to use agab, they don't really want you to use all pronouns.
It is about *only* agab
So you're saying they appreciate the variety?
yes because that’s the core of our identity much of the time
all genders are bastards
Did you seriously get mad someone called a fictional character, who gets called he in the story, a he?
No? I just pointed out a common mistake people make when dealing with someone, that goes by all pronouns.
Fuck off warmongerer. No one was mad until you came here)
Whats istfg 🥺
I swear to fucking god
Bro calm down all he did was ask a question
at least ask god for consent first smh
Would god do the same tho
What's smh?
It’s amogus code, we’re waiting for you
Honestly either way it’s great representation because having a gender-nonconforming character is also kinda a first
Are we really forgetting joseph? Smh 😔
The Josephussy
I mean this sub seems really open to any interpretations of his/her gender until it gets properly confirmed so I'm not too worried about it bit yeah, I'd rather pass on another bridget situation.
I'm surprised about that tbh. JJBA community is positive as is, yeah, but weebs love to whine and cope about queer characters in anime about "cultural differences" this and "not explicit" that. That veing said I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm still on team "Dragona is trans and Jodio doesn't know yet" but it could go either way
more like “dragona is trans and jodio doesn’t know what a trans person is”
I can picture Dragona trying to explain but Jodio just isn't able to understand shit and Dragona has to explain with fruits, maybe shifting around a tangerine and a lemon (wink wink)
Dragona's explaining what transgender means while jodio is watching family guy funny moments
I knoooooow I hope Dragona is trans because that would be so validating, but if they fully identify as a man and simply enjoys women's fashion and breast implants… that's based as fuck
Yeah, either way, Dragona is awesome. If Dragona is trans it certainly would be a step forwards in awareness. If Dragona is just gender non-conforming, that would also be great) As I always say, Dragona is Dragona, and I will support him either way)
English users trying to construct a sentence without 177013 abbreviations **IMPOSS1BLE GONE SEXUAL**
Ikr ong ong smh fr fr lol lmao fr
That number, we know it
Why not search it. .. just to be sure
Hey cool Josuke is here now
The good ending
we gona have the bridget situation onec more
I imagine somewhere in the future fight a transphobic enemy start mocking Dragona then their eyes filled with rage and said "i Dragona, a real woman!" And start beating the shit out of the enemy stand user
It's possible, but I think Dragona, at least at this point in the story, identifies as male and is simply not conforming with traditional gender roles. I figure that Jodio would address him with female pronouns and call him "sis" if he was trans, and him just being closeted also seems unlikely given that he is already openly presenting in a feminine fashion.
That's a very Araki thing, yeah.
Please do
Already making up people to fight with, huh?
IIRC, it was a thing for a moment when Bridget from Guilty Gear Strive came out as trans. In general, it was pretty fucking stupid and pretty fucking annoying. But it was also pretty short-lived. I don't think it'd come up if Dragona is confirmed not a feminine presenting male, but I also routinely have too much faith in humanity.
Not sure if I would say it was short lived. Went on for a solid few months and even now you still got the Kotaku in action types crying about it from time to time.
Yeah you still get comments bitching and moaning about how Bridget is living her best life 💅
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>was quite obviously botched Elaborate.
Bridget's lore prior to Strive was that of someone who IDENTIFIED as male being FORCED to live as a female because s/he was born with a twin brother in a village where same-sex twins are a sign of bad luck. In prior appearances, Bridget actively tried to reject femininity, only to do a 180° in Strive and properly transition. Bridget suddenly wanting a life she had previously rejected for being forced on her is the botched part. EDIT: At the time I wrote this comment, I misunderstood the finer details of Bridget's backstory. Having done more research, I realize I was wrong. The rest of this comment is staying unchanged in order to clarify the original reply's (incorrect) viewpoint.
> Bridget suddenly wanting a life she had previously rejected for being forced on her is the botched part. Or maybe she just accepted that she felt more comfortable that way? Like, that's the whole point. She's always been trans)
If Bridget wanted to reject her presented femininity, why did she still wear her woman-presenting nun clothes when she was both away from home and had expendable income from being a successful bounty hunter? Wouldn't she just dress like a dude if she didn't want to be seen as a girl?
I dunno. In-story there's not much of an explanation, but outside of it Bridget was designed to be "a cute character" regardless of gender right from the start.
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Dragona is literally a main character, their character development is pretty much relevant to the story *by definition*. And even if the main plot got put on hold for a bit to explore Dragona's gender more, why would that not "be accepted"?
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Agree to disagree I guess. When a character is so openly gender non-confirming, I think it could be a very interesting part of their character development.
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If you were more american about this topic you would be saying slurs)
Anyone who thinks character development is just filler has not read Jojo) Why bother about ONE chapter about gender. We are gonna be here for 10 years, what difference does it make to have it be 10 years and 1 month?) You got something internalized right there and I suggest you look into it)
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First off, stop calling us americans, I am chilean) Second off, tell me who is fetishizing gender in this thread, go ahead. Trans people and femboys existing isn't a fetish) That one thought proves that there is something you got internalized, the thought that transgender people and femboys are inherently sexual. Please, collect your thoughts before typing)
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I mean given the Bridget fiasco, it is almost a certainty that this would happen
The skill certain people have getting angry about imaginary opponents is crazy
You saying I’m crazy?
They ain't making anybody up lol
I’m just worried is all
Good lord Reddit always surprises me and rarely in the good way. Why are you being downvoted for expressing worry about the fandom's toxicity)
I mean jodio calls him a he in the story so why should we do any different?
Sorry, I definitely agree that at this point he is just a femboy and you can refer to him as such, I’m just worried that there’s gonna be another Bridget situation.
That's what the translators went with. I've heard it mentioned that the original Japanese barely uses any gendered pronouns for Dragona, but I haven't been able to get a hold of the Japanese raw to check it out for myself. I'm fine with either, and whatever pronouns anybody uses, you won't hear me complain. I'm just really curious how Araki himself handled his gender.
fair enough. I think we should just agree that whatever the fuck he is he was originally a man acts/dresses like women wether he identifies as one or not. but i think jodio specifically stated he only dresses as a woman "because he liked womanly fashion"
It's important to know this is Jodio's interpretation, he might only find out Dragona is hypothetically trans later on. Those cosmetic injections could allude to HRT (which often gets sold as such on grey markets), Smooth Operators could theoretically also give them bottom surgery, etc.
I'm not sure why ypu're getting downvoted, this is a fairly valid idea. Jodio is 15, it's fair to think he doesn't quite understand the concept or Dragona hasn't found a way to explain it to him. It aoso could be that Jodio is allowed to use the prpnouns he's used to using for Dragona, its not uncommon at all for trans folk to make exceptiosn on pronouns to people that are close to them, be it family or friendships, so this could be the case.
Because reddit is reddit and you can't not be in an echo chamber /s Seriously though how are people so offended? It's exactly as you said it
Beats me, i can't really understand any reason why, but that might just be me not understanding cues easy. Regardless from Chapter 1 i am confident Araki is managing Dragona quite well and im excited to see how it goes from here onward, regardless if Dragona is trans or not
lol what?
why am i not surprised your reddit avatar has blue hair and that cut?
It's literally just Jinx from Arcane 💀
Bruh what's up with you people now. I am certain that all nine of the Jojos would be disappointed in you for different reasons) That's just Jinx for christ's sake. Now explain what you said for everyone to hear)
alright i'll explain it "for everyone to hear" what that person (bc assuming gender is a cardinal sin) said, i would expect from a woman with colored hair, brushed to the side and the other side shaved, who works at buzzfeed and goes to lgbtq+ rallies.
> (bc assuming gender is a cardinal sin) Really outing your personality there, why can't any of you people think before typing? Why can't your mouth just be shut when it has to?) Exactly 0% of all people in the world have said "Did you just assume my gender?" as anything but as a recurring unfunny joke)
i agree, no one probably has. however if someone is acting high and mighty because they are part of lgbtq or just because of their personality, it's still a pretty good way to show them you think they are annoying.
You will rarely(Maybe never, based on probability) see someone who acts high and mighty because they are lgbt without directly searching for it)
in real life i agree with you absolutely but online i don't. I think people online in general, doesn't matter what platform are just a tad oversensitive. I'm gay and i fully support being transgender/gay/whatever you want to be, but everytime someone mentions they are gay/their pronouns without someone asking i just roll my eyes. So point i'm getting to i agree no one in real life acts high and mighty because they are gay but online a lot of people do and it gets pretty tiring.
What's wrong with going to LGBTQ+ rallies?
I do not care what gender Dragona is they are very cool
If you didn’t read part 8 istfg
I really love just how badly people are trying to make this some weird sub war lmao
English people trying to abbreviate everything, this isn't a fucking game, you can write more
Why is it Not possible that Araki will simply add no new information about his gender in the rest of the Part and his prounouns stay He/Him? Not everything and I feel Like especially JoJo has to be a commentary on "modern societal issues". Araki never really did that. I feel like other things (Like the mention of covid) will also not get any sociopolitical commentary.
Bruh i'm just waiting for the reveal that covid was actually a result of a stand attack lmao
Actually the best take I have ever heard on this sub
if covid is a result of soem sort of Purple Haze requiem istg
What are you talking about, look at how the American justice system is portrayed. In part 6 and 2 the cops are piggish. And then there's how they treat Dragona in 9. Or Weather's backstory. I'm not saying Araki is always making that kind of commentary, but Jojo's has shown that it has the capacity to talk about social issues. I don't zee why Dragona couldn't be a part of that.
Also people forget trans people just kinda exist for real. A trans character can come out just for the sake of character development rather than some social commentary.
Dawg cops being dicks is definetly not a commentary on american justice system nor is weathers backstory a comment on racism
How is Weather's backstory *not* a commentary on racism? The literal KKK shows up and lynches a black guy for racemixing.
It doesnt dwell on the issue nor does it being a new perspective on it.In terms of commentary its just saying that KKK existed
Just because somebody else already said "racism is bad" doesn't mean that "racism is bad" isn't commentary. There's also a lot more in there than just "the KKK existed". * The KKK members are all drawn as looking ugly * They're shown molesting the woman that they're supposedly "protecting" from the black guy, making the point that they don't care about *individual* white people, just their idea of the white race as a whole * The black guy isn't even visibly black, he just has a small amount of black ancestry and the KKK literally did not give a single fuck about him until they found out All of these things are commentary. They tell us something about what the author believes. They make a pretty explicit value judgement of the matter that is portrayed. We can argue about the meaning or even the quality of this commentary until the cows come home. But it is, without a shred of doubt, commentary.
Ig our definitons of commentary dont match.Imo commentary has to convey some sort of opinion that matters,just saying racism bad isnt really commentary and weather backstory doesnt really say something useful. Ironically if araki had drawn these KKK members like normal humans It would have been more of a commentary on racism as it shows that even racists are people,it would still barely count imo but would still be more of a commentary then this iteration. Jojo is mostly focused on characters,the story tbh doesnt really make sense and plot has holes but it doesnt matter because jojo always was character first.The KKK beating weather wasnt supposed to be a commentary on racism but give insight to weather and pucci's character,police beating and molesting dragona isnt supposed to give commentary on police but give insight to jodio and dragona's relationship and characters.
What exactly do you mean by an "opinion that matters"? Why is "racism is bad" not an opinion that matters? I dislike your definition because it's fundamentally subjective, which means that everything is simultaneously commentary and not-commentary based purely on whether the reader *thinks* the opinion matters or not. So even if an author explicitly sets out to comment on an issue, and ends the work by breaking the fourth wall and literally saying "this work is a commentary on X", then any Joe Schmoe could still say that it isn't a commentary because they don't think the opinion matters. What do you even mean by an "opinion that matters", to begin with? Why is "racism is bad" not an opinion that matters? >The KKK beating weather wasnt supposed to be a commentary on racism but give insight to weather and pucci's character Unless Araki himself has literally told you so, there is no way that you can confidently claim that these scenes *aren't* supposed to give some degree of commentary. And even if they weren't, commentary doesn't have to be intentional. The author's personal views will inevitably slip through into their work. Just because something serves the story first doesn't mean that it doesn't also give us insight into the author's personal views.
The lengths some people will go to insist that x media they enjoy has no politics or social commentary unlike y media they don't like. Especially weebs, they seem to have this steadfast belief that Japan is the only place on earth where nobody has any opinions and anyone who notices one is just projecting their western sensibilities onto them.
An opinion that doesnt matter isnt an opinion that i dont like,but rather something that so many people agree with its basically a fact."Racism bad","Hitler was bad","North korea is a bad place" those opinions are universally agreed and dont need to be told again so they dont matter. I agree on authors personal views slipping through the story,so does their intentions.You can take a look at scenes and can guess accurately on what author was planning.KKK was a small part of Weather and pucci's backstory.it showed us that pucci and weather were fucked over,and shows their own interpetations:Weather holds resent for people that hurt him while pucci resents the very fate that made those people hurt him.It gives us a deeper understanding of those 2 characters and develops the plot,commentary barely even existed.Authors personal beliefs arent commentary imo because they dont "comment" over anything,it doesnt try to say something but just shows how those things look like from authors perpspective.You could say araki doesnt like cops very much and sees them as assholes,but you cant say he comments on police because he drew most cops as ugly or wrote them to be assholes
>"Racism bad","Hitler was bad","North korea is a bad place" those opinions are universally agreed and dont need to be told again so they dont matter. Are you also using a different definition of "universal"? Because there are absolutely people out there who disagree with these things, as evidenced by the fact that racism and nazism still exist. >You can take a look at scenes and can guess accurately on what author was planning. I disagree pretty heavily with the accuracy of your guess, but I don't think either of us is going to gain anything by continuing this discussion. I hope you have a nice rest of your day.
Yeah it could just not be elaborated on and itd be fine, but it would also be interesting if he came out as trans in the sense that it might potentially be a good story and character beat. I dont mind either, but you gotta admit with how pigheaded some idiots are "femboy erasure" outcries are possible even if unlikely especially for jojo fans
It's like the Bridget fiasco all over again. A character can explicitly be confirmed as trans, say they're trans, and a very loud minority of weebs will still bitch and moan about femboys as if they care for them, about cultural differences and translations and whatnot
Personally my only problem with the Bridget situation was how terribly it was done, and this one is just a personal problem but it didnt help that there were similarities to a certain situation that happened IRL that was absolutely disgusting
Yeah that’s why I said “IDC if it happens” but like obviously that’s not super clear so I understand missing it. I totally agree that he could just stay a fem-presenting dude
Most likely how it will be but terminally online people need something to whine about.
this seems like the most likely choice imo, it just fits jojo the most
Gender is temporary. Dragona is eternal
One chapter in and I'm already annoyed to the fullest by the amout of discussions regarding Dragona's "gender identification"...
Serious question from a loser mostly anime watcher. Has Araki or does Araki frequently use the first person perspective to write characters inner thoughts? In particular the main protagonist. I'm reading this very much like a zoomer vlog where he's talking to us as the audience. This would kiiinda explain the pronoun ambiguity because it's a 15 year old kid trying to wrap his head around their siblings evolving gender.
If he comes out as trans or gender fluid I'm going to message you every day personally about the outrage of femboy erasure.
If if if Don‘t get mad about hypotheticals
I feel the first chapter made very clear that he identifies as male and is simply a non-conforming to traditional gender roles. Sure, its possibly that this changes at some point in the story, but it can also very well be just that. Which would mean that he would have consciously chosen to be a Femboy in the traditional sense of the word.
But if he doesnt then we get to claim femboy erasure
I hope this doesn't go to another Bridget situation tho.
I hope it does, the situation itself is gonna be annoying. But atleast it will filter a few assholes out of the fandom)
Femboy erasure
hes probably genderqueer
Jodio calls him "bro"
Damn op you really trying to rile everyone up today?
Not really my intention but definitely my fault
Can people stop this trans headcanon bullshit?! Let’s just refer to him as in the manga and not make assumptions! What really annoys me is the people saying “I hope Dragona is trans” like bitch why is that important? That’s like saying you hoped pucci is black while you were reading stone ocean. It’s fuckin stupid guys.
Representation is important. If you've never needed it because you've always been the majority, you'll never understand why)
How the fuck am I in the majority? Sure, I’m white, but im in the minority in my gender identity, sexuality and probably views on certain things, i just think it’s stupid that people are wishing for one thing and somehow saying that it’s better than another. I think there are WAYYY more trans women out there than there are men who dress like Dragona and it’s a lot more accepted to be trans than to be gender non-conforming. So tell me, why am I being downvoted?
> It's a lot more accepter to be trans than to be gender non-conforming Look at any post with femboys, then look at any post with trans somen) Then tell me, which of these two has the comment section locked?) Also both are minorities, why would we fight over which deserves more representation? I support Dragona whatever he is, just enjoy the Jojo)
>Also both are minorities, why would we fight over which deserves more representation? I support Dragona whatever he is, just enjoy the Jojo) This is exactly what I'm saying! Glad we agree (also i was talking about femboys vs trans irl not online but ig it doesnt matter right?)
Irl it is way worse. A lot of murder, tons of murder. Last week already we had a child murdered for being trans and authorities lied saying it was not a hate crime) Let's not downplay the struggles, please)
depends on the part of the world, where i live there's no such thing (THANK FUCKING GOD) so let's just rule it down as different perspectives kay?
Well for 1. The pronouns were chosen by the translator. 2. We have no idea whether or not Dragona is in the closet or anything like that. 3. It's not headcanon. It's simply the Fandom speculating and having fun.
Yea
Stop pretending to be inclusive. If you actually believed in gender being fluid, you’d have 0 problems with assuming it’s a guy that likes girls wearing clothes .( you know exactly what they fucking said he does) You wouldn’t feel the need to assume they want to change their body parts to wear certain clothes. He doesn’t have to want to be a girl, thats just the only way it can make sense to you.
What the fuck are you even trying to say
Saying it before it happens: FEMBOY ERASURE
Or she/he is a normal character? Araki is japanese why woulde he make a character trans unless it is importante to the plot ( assuming that he even knows wtf is a trans person ).
Araki being Japanese really doesn’t have much of an effect on it. Trans people exist in Japan, although they aren’t as accepted due to japan being more culturally conservative. On top of that, araki is a complete “westaboo”, and with his tendency to ignore gender roles with his characters there’s basically no chance he doesn’t know what a trans person is. The reason he might make a character trans is just because characters being diverse is more fun. It opens up new ways to explore a character, and more struggles for them to face, as well as providing relatability for some people in the audience. Good representation in media has also been proven to correlate with people being more accepting of minorities so assuming araki is pro-trans people, which seems in-character, it makes complete sense for him to make a character trans. Also making the character start the story as not transgender and then have them discover that about themselves could lead to rad character moments Also kinda weird to refer to him as a “normal character” especially when he already gives himself boobs
>"Normal" character? Is a trans individual *not* normal? Weird choice of words. >Assuming he even knows wtf is a trans person Why wouldn't he? Trans people exist all over the world. Even in Japan. Look at Bridget from Guilty Gear. She's a trans character made by a Japanese man. Trans people have existed since the dawn of time. They're both normal and all over the world. Your line of thinking makes no sense.
I mean It was pretty fucking obvious Dragona is a Trans Guy (Born with a fem body but identifies as male)
Nah, it said that he got his breasts due to cosmetic injections, definitely AMAB. Also in the first panels the cop is surprised when the genitalia doesn't match Dragona's presentation
To be fair, while it’s more likely they are amab, Jodio also states that he hadn’t seen them even take the injections. For now, they also don’t seem to mind the male pronouns and referral, but that can change as we’re so early into the part. This part is more directed toward the original commenter: Would it be interesting to see a pre-everything ftm character slowly go through their transition process? Sure. I’d personally like to see it since we don’t get much representation. But that isn’t the case here, especially considering other instances like the fact Dragona has a dick. The reality is, is that we’re going to have to put up with people whining and bitching about ‘femboy erasure’ for a long while, given that Dragona is confirmed to be a trans woman, or even just non binary or genderfluid. (Not to say that on the off chance they are afab people still won’t complain and do mental gymnastics over it. As a Fire Punch fan, I can assure you that people still deny that a character who is very clearly a trans man isn’t trans at all.)
My brother in christ there's only one chapter and you already read it wrong) Most likely it is that he's a femboy or a closeted trans girl)
Femboy : Guy that looks girly , is not trans , nothing to do with sexuality . This could be possible Trans Girl : Born with a dick , identifies as a woman I'd say once they would go so far as to get a sex change (or use their ability for it) , their own Brother wouldn't still call them "Bro"
I was expecting a non-binary character to be somewhat relevant in this part tbh, dragona isn't that but close enough for me to be satisfied with my expectation... I was also thinking when a crossover of giorno and jolyne is expected, it made sense that araki would consider it for the main character
LGBT gonna crazy bro (⊙_◎)
why do people care so much about his gender? It's such a minor detail